PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: (e) on December 16, 2003, 04:03:49 PM
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I know this has been discussed before, not nessicarily at the forums but in the world.
It is about the universe.
Now here is what is thought of the universe by most people and scientists. Apparently it is just a never ending stretch of absolute nothing, rather planets, stars, moons etc.
But can the human mind imagine infinity? That is to say, is infinity even possible, physically and mentally. When you think about it, only a few things are infinity, and only from that a technicality. Everything else in the world has an ending. A song, a street, a moment, a life.
But this is where the universe comes in. Do you think it is possible for it to go on? This is forever, their is no stop, no circle nothing. It is forever. Do not say you can comprehend this idea, the relativity of infinity that is, because it is impossible.
I am hoping for a serious, and well debated subject. Please, mods I ask for your assistance in keeping this thread tidy. I really am quite baffled by this infinity issue.
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Obviously you haven\'t taken Calculus yet...
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I read somewhere that ine ice skating the human body is physically capable of doing like 8 revolutions in the air before landing. Now they do what, 4?
We have lots to learn.
PS: I have no clue what this has to do with the topic other than we have lots to learn.
I\'m an idiot.
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Originally posted by SwifDi
Obviously you haven\'t taken Calculus yet...
Please delete mod. Also, you think numbers can determine something as vast as the universe? No.
Yes, we do have alot to learn, but we can make assumptions upon the facts we do know, although very little, the human body as a whole appears to know "alot".
BTW: Please mods, I beg of you to help keep this topic rational. And I am expecting no bashing, we havent had a good clean topic at these forums for a while.
BTWx2: Bossieman hopefully he comes around, I am anxious to see his opinion on this.
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Why delete? I was being dead serious...
You\'re concept of "infinite" is simply a definition, whereas mine is an actual concept. Believe me, I\'m not claiming to be some math wiz, but after a year and a half of Calculus concepts I have a better grasp on the idea of infinite.
Infinite is infinite. Never-ending. Never beginning.
Thats my answer to your extremely vague question.
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Originally posted by SwifDi
Why delete? I was being dead serious...
You\'re concept of "infinite" is simply a definition, whereas mine is an actual concept. Believe me, I\'m not claiming to be some math wiz, but after a year and a half of Calculus concepts I have a better grasp on the idea of infinite.
Infinite is infinite. Never-ending. Never beginning.
Thats my answer to your extremely vague question.
Then you could say that Infinite is impossible because how do you have no beginning? Is it possible? Its hard to imagine that the universe just stops but then how does it continue? Infinite in a physical reality is an anomaly that nobody will ever figure out im sure. If you can prove infinite exists in the physical world then you could also argue, that if there is no beginning then its possible that there is a god. Im not saying its not.
I dont know. I thought i was saying something...
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In calculus you throw around the term infinite quite often so I know where di is coming from, but as far as being able to rationalize that into thought, I\'m not sure. Too much unknown for people to ponder. Very few people probably grasp the concept enough to theorize the possibilities.
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Originally posted by Phil
In calculus you throw around the term infinite quite often so I know where di is coming from, but as far as being able to rationalize that into thought, I\'m not sure
Exactly. It\'s almost just like a variable.
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Infinite=endless
What is there to "wonder" about. Technically everything is finite...when you die. When this galaxy ends, there won\'t be any more "infinite" because unless aliens exist, the word "infinite" will have no value on our universe.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Infinite=endless
What is there to "wonder" about. Technically everything is finite...when you die. When this galaxy ends, there won\'t be any more "infinite" because unless aliens exist, the word "infinite" will have no value on our universe.
that\'s the crappiest bullshit I\'ve ever heard.....
please explain to me why aliens are necessary for infinity to exist!
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I can\'t offer any insight on the subject but this link is rather interesting...
Perpetual Creation & Annihilation (http://www.indolink.com/Forum/Arts-Culture/messages/901.html)
I\'m not sure what you were talking about when you said "no circle nothing." The circle represents infinity quite well...no beginning and no end. Moving along the circle represents creation and right behind it is annihilation...think in terms of billions and trillions of years though.
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Why is it impossible for us to grasp the concept of infinity?
Also, who said infinity has to have no beginning?
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Infinity and beyond...i am confused...i thought the universe is big, but not infinite, it\'s still expanding...shrug...don\'t know.
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Infinite = imeasurable
*runs away*
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Infinitely Small = Imeasurable
Infinitely Large = Imeasurable
Infinitely Small != Infinitely Large
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Also, who said infinity has to have no beginning?
Yeah, that\'s true.
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It\'s called negative infinity
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Why can\'t the beginning of infinity be whereever you define it from. From my perspective, infinity starts with me and extends out in all directions infinitely
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Infinity can\'t have an ending or a beginning. It\'s a simple matter of definition.
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^^^Look it up again because you are wrong. There is NO definition of infinity that says it can\'t have a beginning.
Maybe there is a new definition taught in High School Physics/Calculus since I\'ve been gone but I doubt it.
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Originally posted by politiepet
that\'s the crappiest bullshit I\'ve ever heard.....
please explain to me why aliens are necessary for infinity to exist!
Infinity is basically a measure of time. Without any other life form alive to measure "infinity", infinity doesn\'t exist. Unless planets and asteroids can think.
I think infinity has to have had a beginning. B/c unless we believe that the universe has been here forever, if it has then infinity is only moving forward, if it didn\'t its moving forward and backwards.
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Why does it have to have a beginning? Why can\'t right now be its beginning? Time doesn\'t have to be so linear. All that is ever really real is the exact moment that\'s happening now. The only way you measure the past is by things that exist in the present. So why doesn\'t it just start with this moment? Then it can extend infinitely in all directions from there.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Infinite=endless
What is there to "wonder" about. Technically everything is finite...when you die. When this galaxy ends, there won\'t be any more "infinite" because unless aliens exist, the word "infinite" will have no value on our universe.
You win the dumbass award of the year.
Originally posted by Black Samurai
Why is it impossible for us to grasp the concept of infinity?
Because infinity is impossible.
Everything, EVERYTHING must have an end to some degree.
That is the dilema. We state that infinity is possible. But is it really?
Is their anything that is really infinite. And dont say a circle, because a perfect circle is impossible, nothing in nature is infinite. Nothing is.
But what about when you travel to the "ends" of space. A wall- it seems inconceviable, but infinity does too.
Before posting, just think about it, imagine you are in a ship, and you are traveling. Forever.... Its impossible.
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I don\'t see how it\'s so hard to grasp. Of course you can go forever, it\'s the only thing that makes sense.
And for the circle example, why does it matter if it is or is not a perfect circle? Just anything in a loop like that. And I also don\'t see why a perfect circle is impossible either. I think I\'m just looking at it from a very different perspective though. I don\'t see why infinity has to have any start other than you. Everything is really just relative to your own perspective anyway. My view of the universe (no jokes here, I know how this sounds) is that it starts with me. From there it just expands out in all directions.
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Improbable and Impossible are not the same thing.
Even in an imperfect circle(baring the presence of gaps) there is no end so it is still infinite. Infinity has no end. To say that it is impossible for some thing to "never end" is ridiculous.
Originally posted by Spudz
Everything, EVERYTHING must have an end to some degree.
That is the dilema. We state that infinity is possible. But is it really?
There is no dilemna. Not everything MUST have an end.
Just because YOU can not grasp a concept does not mean that it is impossible for EVERYONE to grasp.
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it\'s pretty simple everthing has a beginning and thus must have an end..including the universe. unless the universe is layered & is evolving unto itself...wtf am i talkin about?
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...wtf am i talkin about?
No clue, but funny nonetheless...
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Calculus helps us in understanding infinity, at least in a way our brains can work with it, by putting up rules about infinity that we can use to work with it.
ie.
Any rational number / infinity = 0
10000000 divided by infinity? 0
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Infinity is basically a measure of time. Without any other life form alive to measure "infinity", infinity doesn\'t exist. Unless planets and asteroids can think.
this statement is wrong in a lot of ways: [list=1]
- infinity is not (just) a measure of time, something infinitely large is not time based for example
- infinity doesn\'t have to be measured to exist. Just because there will be a time in which no one will be able to measure it, doesn\'t mean it\'s gonna stop being there...
- if the universe were to be infinite (time based) that would mean everything would happen, even the extinction of all lifeforms! (also their reappearance ;))
[/list=1]
btw. time is not so much an absolute existing principle as you might think! it is (quite probably) bendeable (sp?)
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
^^^Look it up again because you are wrong. There is NO definition of infinity that says it can\'t have a beginning.
Maybe there is a new definition taught in High School Physics/Calculus since I\'ve been gone but I doubt it.
Eh you\'re right. I don\'t know what I was thinking. Hell we have a ton of equations in calc that state a point in a line that goes to infinity ex. (1, ‡)
Edit: why won\'t it let me use the infinity character????
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Spudz...honestly you have no right to call me stupid...maybe just smarter?
Anyways, Infinity is a measurement of time when we\'re talking about going through it or living through it or whatever. Spudz, is talking about "Because infinity is impossible. Everything, EVERYTHING must have an end to some degree." An infinitely huge rock isn\'t a measure of time, but going across this infinitely huge rock is. How long is infinity? That\'s time, it\'s distance per second or minute or whatever you are measuring in. I don\'t agree that everything MUST haven an end, nobody knows for sure if the universe is infinite. If you\'re Christian then you know or believe that God is infinitely years old, and will live forever therefore there is no end to infinity. If you\'re not Christian, then I don\'t know what you think..
How long is Pi?
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Speaking of pi, I actually know someone who took the time to memorize the first 100 digits of pi. This would be Phil\'s completely useless fact of the day.
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O <--- follow the line, where will it stop ;)
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I farted and it smelt like tart.
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Originally posted by ViVi
I farted and it smelt like tart.
Most correct post of this thread.
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Spudz...honestly you have no right to call me stupid...maybe just smarter?
Your ****ing stupid.
Better?
I can understand the concept of infinity. But it is truly impossible. No matter what their is an end, and their is a beginning. The only exclusion of this is a circle. But that only is one thing.
List one other thing that is infinite, that is PROVEN. Not the Universe- because it isnt proven.
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Human stupidity.
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Your a fine specimen for that, now arent you.
Until you can use more than 20% of your brain, learn to not judge on the unknown, but on what we do know.
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****...
stfu spudz... your stupidity is infinite.
Stop being so ****ing ignorant.
[/thread]
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Originally posted by Spudz
Your a fine specimen for that, now arent you.
Because trying to lighten the mood when someone starts trying to make a topic like this personal is a stupid thing :rolleyes:
Spudz, shut up. Not only do you have no idea what you\'re talking about in this topic, which is ok, but you\'re telling everyone else their opinions on something you yourself say is unknown are wrong. And you call me stupid? Shut your mouth until you have something constructive, not destructive, to add to this topic.
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Originally posted by Spudz
But it is truly impossible. No matter what their is an end, and their is a beginning. The only exclusion of this is a circle.
Doesn\'t the second the last statement cancel out the rest of the statement?
"It is impossible for pigs to fly......except for that one flying pig; but he doesn\'t count."
^^^The same argument you are using.
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You are all ****ing morons.
Or maybe I just worded it wrong.
I asked for your opinion on Infinity.
Is it possible?
I believe it isnt, because the theory of infinity states that their is no end. Well, it could also have no beginning, because their must be an end to have a beginning, correct?
People think that space goes on forever, but does it go on forever? Does it stop? What do you think happens.
I wasnt asking to be bashed, and I clearly stated at the beginning I wish for a serious topic and it ended up being a bash Spudz.
Its ****ing pathetic how no one here can make a decent, honest, no bullshit thread.
Infinity in my perspective is impossible. It is irrational, denies all concepts of physics, and their are no known examples of it.
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Originally posted by Spudz
I am hoping for a serious, and well debated subject.
You win the dumbass award of the year.
Your ****ing stupid.
Until you can use more than 20% of your brain...
Bitch, Please...
You are all ****ing morons.
I was bored. :(
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Incase you didnt notice.
Half that was posted after the thread was ruined.
Oh shit- It was ruined after the 1st post. Thanks to the good ol\' Fag Snake.
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Originally posted by Spudz
I asked for your opinion on Infinity.
Is it possible?
I believe it isnt, because the theory of infinity states that their is no end. Well, it could also have no beginning, because their must be an end to have a beginning, correct?
1. We gave you our opinions and yes it is.
2. Why do you think that something has to have an end to have a beginning? Are trying to you use that "one can not exist without the other" theory?
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again... O <---- follow the line, just follow the line
It has no beginning, it has no end.
It’s the O on your keyboard, the O in your essay
It’s the O in you fruitloops, the O in your cockring.
It’s the O that’s pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
The O’s are everywhere… o_O
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Originally posted by Spudz
Incase you didnt notice.
Half that was posted after the thread was ruined.
Oh shit- It was ruined after the 1st post. Thanks to the good ol\' Fag Snake.
I was arguing it perfectly fine. You just started bashing other people\'s opinions. Saying someone is ****ing stupid doesn\'t help your thread. Asking for opinions, then insulting those who give them doesn\'t either. And hey, this is illustrating my human stupidity point pretty well :p
By the way, that was an Einstein quote. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I\'m not sure about the former."
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Originally posted by Spudz
Oh shit- It was ruined at the 1st post. Thanks to the good ol\' Spudz
fixed
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Originally posted by Spudz
Oh shit- It was ruined after the 1st post. Thanks to the good ol\' Fag Snake.
Keep calling people fags, that will get you somewhere quick.
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Alrightt. End of thread.
I want to point out a few things.
(1) Spudz, you wanted a "decent debate" - but you went back to your old ways.
(2) This topic has been done before. And it\'s a matter of what you perceive.
(3) You\'re all gay.
:)
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(4) LIC is gay too.
:D
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(5) Sam and I are lovers.
(I love being a mod!)