PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: SirMystiq on December 30, 2003, 07:25:04 PM
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I don\'t know how many times this topic has been discussed in these forums, but if it has...ohh well.
NO, I didn\'t get my girlfriend pregnant.
NO, I\'m not a girl pretending to be a guy.
OK...
I don\'t think it should be banned. I\'m 100% Pro-Choice. But according to my girlfriend\'s friend I\'m 100% Pro-Murder. I firmly believe that it is the future mother\'s decision wether to have her baby or wether not to have the baby. We are not raising the child and therefore other people have no right to enforce their believes and fight for the birth of the baby against the mother\'s wishes.
My girlfriend\'s friend and I were talking about her stupid ideas of why Republicans are right. She basically said "Democrats steal money from white people"..."just because im white I lose money to give it to those people that don\'t work"...As you can probably conclude, I don\'t like her very much. She is extremely ignorant. When I told her that I support Democrats, she completely went crazy. But she finally pissed me off when she called me a Murderer. B/c she believes that all Democrats support abortion. She is also pretty much brainwashed by all the things the church tell her, but it\'s ok...but she apparently doesn\'t realize that if the person was anymore of a believe in God as she is, abortion wouln\'t even cross their mind. But ohh well, people these days.
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lol, steal money from white people...
maybe thats because the majority of money in america belongs to white people....
Im glad to see those republicans are into helping the less fortunate ;)
But anyways, abortion is okay.... I do not think we should go around killing babies though, I mean, I wish we could do it case by case to make sure the reasons were good enough...
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Pro choice of course. Im sorry for about your beliefs but this is not a religious issue for any of those that wish to bring it up. I mean especially if a kid gets raped. Thats just not right. People will debate: "well god decided to give that child to you so its a blessing not a tragedy." Thats a crock.
Plus, im fairly sure that up untill a certain point the child isnt even a fulling living oganism, so it couldnt possibly be murder.
w/e Ive gotten into far too many arguments over this one
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Politics Forum.
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There are a lot of people in the world who I wish had been aborted.
I don\'t mind keeping abortion legal I just don\'t want it used as birth control. And I think if you are a youngster getting one you should have to take some sort of class/therapy. Either to help the pain of going through the process or to help educate the youngster on how to keep the seed from reaching the egg.
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Hey, I agree with Vid about something political :O
You have a pretty liberal view for a conservitive....
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Abortion is one of the only issues I sway to the other side.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t think it should be banned. I\'m 100% Pro-Choice. But according to my girlfriend\'s friend I\'m 100% Pro-Murder. I firmly believe that it is the future mother\'s decision wether to have her baby or wether not to have the baby. We are not raising the child
Yea.......so the guy gets no say, it should be just the mothers choice? I can\'t believe people these days.
Adoption or don\'t have sex.
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@Vid
^^
That and hot gay love\'n
Oh, and I\'m pro choice, even though most people I know are psycho pro life....and why do they make it "pro life", that sounds like if I\'m not pro life I\'m pro death. Suns-a-bitches
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Originally posted by theomen
and why do they make it "pro life", that sounds like if I\'m not pro life I\'m pro death. Suns-a-bitches
Well in a way you are. :D
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Originally posted by videoholic
There are a lot of people in the world who I wish had been aborted.
I don\'t mind keeping abortion legal I just don\'t want it used as birth control. And I think if you are a youngster getting one you should have to take some sort of class/therapy. Either to help the pain of going through the process or to help educate the youngster on how to keep the seed from reaching the egg.
I agree with this view. But I just think that whether it\'s right or wrong isn\'t the question. It\'s who makes that decision. If it\'s a moral issue, I don\'t think it\'s right to just decide on the morals for an entire society. Therefor it should be left up to the individual. If you believe in it and need it, then do it. If you don\'t believe in it then don\'t. There ya go, simple as that.
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I\'m with Boz. Obviously I have conflicting religious beliefs with this as well, however I will leave those out of this. We simply do not know when life has begun or not therefore I don\'t like taking the risk of gambling with it and only being "fairly sure" that if something is alive or not. If you have had unprotected sex there\'s this thing called the morning after pill, don\'t wait until a baby is actually forming inside of you.
If a girl is raped, that is also unfortunate, but why can\'t she also take the morning after pill? And if she gets pregnant why add a possible (we don\'t know if it is or not) murder to a rape.
So basically my defense is the question of when life starts. We don\'t really know, so why gamble with it?
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So you don\'t like your girlfriend? Lol
I\'m pro-choice. Besides, I don\'t think of it as \'murder\' unless you kill someone with a consious mind.
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So it\'s okay to kill a retard?
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How does someone who\'s retarded not have a concious mind?
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Originally posted by SwifDi
If you have had unprotected sex there\'s this thing called the morning after pill, don\'t wait until a baby is actually forming inside of you.
If a girl is raped, that is also unfortunate, but why can\'t she also take the morning after pill?
I\'m sorry to say, but your view are soooooooo childish! do you really think people always know it they day after?! :eek:
IMO it\'s legal as long as the neural tube hasn\'t been fully closed, cause it\'s only from that moment a feutus can actually send information to it\'s various bodyparts and therefor, in a way, have selfcontrol/life.
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Originally posted by SwifDi
So it\'s okay to kill a retard?
Why of course, mr. naïve. :rolleyes:
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pro-life here
sex is for fun but most importantly for babies. It\'s a simple issue to me.. don\'t want a baby? Don\'t have a boner.
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I watched a documentary on religion class at school... and since then I\'m pro-life... To abort = To murder. I\'m with THX.
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I use a rubber. Therefore, the women had no choice to make later. :D
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Abortion is wrong almost any way you put it. There are a lot of reasons.
However, I believe that if the parent\'s life is in danger an abortion to save her life isn\'t wrong.
This is the one major thing that keeps anti-abortion bills from being passed.
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How is the abortion debate in other countries? Is it like THE thing that divides all countries?
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Isn\'t this in the wrong forum?
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Just interested and thought this would be a good point, but if someone kills a pregnant mother, are they charged with two murders?
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Yes - ask Scott Peterson.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Yes - ask Scott Peterson.
Yes? There is no reason to consider 2 murders at once since the baby hasn\'t born so that\'s not a legal person yet... well I dunno if I expressed myself right.
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Wrong... if an infant/fetus can survive outside of the womb (I think Lacy Peterson was 8 months pregnant) than it is considered a murder in California anyway. My personal opinion is it SHOULD be considered a double homicide if a woman is pregrant regardless of how far along she is.
Having said that, abortion is something completely different than murder... in the Peterson case, Lacy intended to have the child so by that reasoning it should be a double homicide.
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I think it should be a double murder if the murder knows the person is pregnant. ANd even more so if they are doing it BECAUSE the person is pregnant.
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I kind of have mixed feelings about abortion. I guess I\'m neutral as of now and probably will stay. Prolife and prochoice people both have good arguements about it. If a girl gets pregnant and she can\'t have the child at that period in her life, I guess she can have it aborted. But on the down side, that child could have grown up to be something big.
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OR it could have been raised in a home where they aren\'t ready to have a child.
Where they routinely beat them, under nourish them, have drugs in the house, etc. etc. etc.
I\'m sorry, but you don\'t just have a child.. You have to be ready to have a child. I couldnt afford to have a child until I was 30 years old. I mean I could have done it earlier by scraping pennies and not giving the child every thing I could to make him as wonderful as he can be. But I waited. And Logan is the best kid for it.
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Originally posted by videoholic
I\'m sorry, but you don\'t just have a child.. You have to be ready to have a child. I couldnt afford to have a child until I was 30 years old. I mean I could have done it earlier by scraping pennies and not giving the child every thing I could to make him as wonderful as he can be. But I waited. And Logan is the best kid for it.
You mean you put a penis on her :laughing::laughing::laughing:
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wtf?
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If the baby can\'t say "don\'t abort me please mommy!", then yes it should be her choice. Though I\'m partial to agree with the father having some say in it since he was the one who was sliding his special men in there the first place. I also think that after a certain period of time the choice shouldn\'t exist.
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Abortion is highly situational. You can\'t really say YES it\'s okay or NO it\'s not. For example, I am pro-choice for the most part but don\'t believe in 3rd trimester abortions. UNLESS you somehow find out in month 7 that your child is going to be born with half a brain and 3 legs or something. See what I mean? It\'s a case-by-case basis.
People like to say, "awww look at little sally, imagine what it would be like if we had aborted her". This is BS. You can\'t go back in time, and what ifs don\'t amount to anything. If she never existed you\'d never know the difference. Choice means choice and if you chose to have little sally then you obviously made the right choice.
And finally, most (most, I said) women don\'t just have an abortion and all is wonderful in the world. There are physical and emotional scars - and although I\'ve never been pregnant, I can say with almost 100% certainty that aborting a child is a damn hard decision to make.
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Until you younger guy\'s have your first pregancy scare, you can\'t say if it is okay or not okay.
My two cents and that\'s all.
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Maybe I\'m insensitive, but IMO if you\'re not looking to have a kid.. don\'t have sex. Sex makes babies.
If you can wear a condom, take birth control pills, and go to other lengths to make sure you\'re not eventually a parent.. then those choices are almost as good. Otherwise, be responsible and avoid intercourse.
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Originally posted by Blade
Maybe I\'m insensitive, but IMO if you\'re not looking to have a kid.. don\'t have sex. Sex makes babies.
If you can wear a condom, take birth control pills, and go to other lengths to make sure you\'re not eventually a parent.. then those choices are almost as good. Otherwise, be responsible and avoid intercourse.
Rape also equals sex.
Sex also equals babies.
Hm?
Or..
What\'s the point of having a kid that has a projected life span of a vegetable?
We abort animal\'s while they are pregant. I see human life as nothing different.
Like I said - until you guy\'s have your first pregancy scare, then I don\'t think you can really say it\'s evil or good.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
We abort animal\'s while they are pregant. I see human life as nothing different.
Cmon now. :P
We own animals quite literally. We eat them, make them our coats, they are simply resources in our vastly superior existence. Our bitches you could say, like everything else on this planet. They don\'t have a say in whether we abort them, because we make that choice for them. The difference is the animal doesn\'t have a say in it, and humans do because we are the dominant race on this planet.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Like I said - until you guy\'s have your first pregancy scare, then I don\'t think you can really say it\'s evil or good.
Have you ever had a pregnancy scare?
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Obviously he has...
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Pro-life.
If the child is a fetus, and it is killed it is no different from murder.
Give birth to the child, and send him to adoption if you dont want to take responsibility.
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I\'m shocked... I would\'ve bet a buffalo nickel that you would have been pro-choice...
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Im all for abortion.. Otherwise, we\'d have lots of unwanted children running around.. costing money. ;)
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I wish my parents had aborted me.
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Join the friggin\' club.
I hate work.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Join the friggin\' club.
I hate work.
EXACTLY!
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Eh, humans over populate anyway, we kill animals, animals are technicaly just as valuable as a human life...
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Originally posted by SwifDi
I\'m shocked... I would\'ve bet a buffalo nickel that you would have been pro-choice...
Well, good thing you didnt bet.
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Good thing that I don\'t even know what a buffalo nickel is...
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Originally posted by Capcom
I wish my parents had aborted me.
Why is that?
Having kids is a very, very big responsibility. If parents don\'t think they can\'t handle that responsibility, then don\'t have kids. Abuse, neglect, bad decisions making are some of the things that parents do that affect the kids badly in future life.
There is a saying, "there is no right ways to parenting," but i would like to add, "but there are wrong ways to parenting." Those wrongs way can be so bad that some kids have try or thought about killing themselves. Or even blame their mom on why giving birth to them.
oh btw, don\'t worry about U. S. population. Its pretty under control. Unlike China and India where both have over a billion population each. China made a law that you can\'t have more than 1 child per family or something like that but the babies is still booming over there. India, well the populuation growth is going crazy. Our country, it\'s pretty much maintain, not sure how (must be protection or something) but our population growth is slow, so don\'t worry about getting overpopulated.
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Our country, it\'s pretty much maintain, not sure how
Too many people doing anal.
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Originally posted by (e)
Pro-life.
If the child is a fetus, and it is killed it is no different from murder.
Give birth to the child, and send him to adoption if you dont want to take responsibility.
pro-choice
it should be stricktly up to the individual, but you make a point as far as the fetus goes. nevertheless no-one should have the right to dictate what to do with one\'s body, if that\'s the case you might as well put restrictions on cosmetic surgery,( i know it doesn\'t deal with life choices but you get the point) and it would be pretty hard to get a woman to go the full term with a pregnancy she doesn\'t want. alas i agree with vid & a few others in which it should not be used as birth-control.
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I was going to mention the whole "the father has no saying in this", mostly because they probably don\'t. If the mother decides to have the baby and if she doesn\'t want anything to do with the father...who ends up with the kid and getting money from child support? On the other hand, if the mother aborts the kid and the father wanted the kid, I\'m pretty sure it wouln\'t matter.
People that are "pro-life"...You\'re are doing just what all the rest do. You are neglecting the mother\'s right of choice. "Have the Kid and give it up for adoption" bla bla bla...Unless you\'re going to have a bulky piece of flesh come out of a tiny hole you probably shouln\'t be telling people to do it if they don\'t want to. To all the Christians, I\'m pretty sure everysingle one of you disagrees. Well, wasn\'t it God\'s gift to human kind free will? Aren\'t you denying that mother\'s rights to make use of God\'s gift?...Just a question.
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Its their son, they have the choice. Its not only part of mother, its also part of the father.
You\'re are doing just what all the rest do. You are neglecting the mother\'s right of choice.
And your neglecting the childs right of life. Nothing is more important than life. Nothing
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first of all who the hell is (e)? :P
second of all, this is a very hard argument, im pretty much stuck in the middle myself.....
only because at some point, if your allowed to go around aborting babies why is murder wrong in adults....
But anyways, I do not think the goverment should decide one way or the other.... I think it should be up to the parents.
Now, yer prolly asking, what about the babies choice in all of this....
obviously there should be a limit on how far the development is....
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Adding another two cents on this, I hate to say that I agree with Spudz, but I do.
The child is also part of the Father and in some manner, I think the father if willing, should have some kind of say on the abortion. This is his child also and he has to live with the thought of what could of been.
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I said that from the very beginning. The whole mother getting all the say is an absolute joke, just like the mother getting custody 9 times out of 10, but thats a whole different subject.
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I think no one would have to abort if the parents would take responsibility and think with the right head. Use a condom or birth control. This situation is very easily avoided. But if you are raped and don\'t want a kid, especially from some stranger, you should have the right to abort it. But should a child really die from the stupidity of the parents? Should a child die because the father and mother don\'t keep things to themselves or take the necessary measures to prevent this? Like I said earlier, I\'m neutral and thats where I stay.
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Originally posted by Bozco
I said that from the very beginning. The whole mother getting all the say is an absolute joke, just like the mother getting custody 9 times out of 10, but thats a whole different subject.
The female gender will always be the first to scream "it takes two to make a baby", when the father is not willing to accept responsibility. They will also be the first to scream "it\'s my body" when the father does want to accept responsibility for child.
They are ignorant to the fact that it takes two, when it comes to that situation. It is their body and the man has no say in the situation, which is really quite sad. We as a society are always pushing for males to step up and want the child they help take care of, but when given the chance, the final choice goes down to the woman, even if it did take two.
As for the female gender getting custody of a child in a divorce, that is due to the fact that the court and general population think that the mother is the only one in the childs life. Not to mention it being just another piece of evidence of the new sexist role reversal. At one time, guy\'s had all the power and the women screamed that it was "sexist". Then came equal rights and now women have more power than a man could ever imagine and guess what it\'s called? It is called "equal rights", even though it is nowhere near equal.
If you are ever in a divorce, your chance of getting the child is very slim, if you are a male. The court\'s will say the kid needs someone to develop and care for the kid - as if a father is unable to do this. Fact is, for a woman to lose custody of a child, she would have to be a convicted crack addict and unable to stay out of jail. That\'s about the only way.
There is no such thing as "equal rights" it\'s just a nice way of saying \'role reversal sexism\'.
With all that said, pills such as "the morning after pill" only serve to make the abortion process easier and less and less personal. It is akin to the old days of firing squads. You line one man up, blind fold him, get a 100 other guy\'s, 99 of them have a gun with a blank and one has a gun with a bullet. They fired and no one knew who done the killing. Extremely inpersonal. The morning after pill is the same thing. You take it after sex - you may be pregant, you may not. You don\'t stop and think about it , you don\'t deal with the "shame" of going to a clinic and everything is fine. The female can tell herself she was never actually pregant and that she has never really done an abortion and if she did, well, the fetus was only a day old, right?
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Originally posted by (e)
Its their son, they have the choice. Its not only part of mother, its also part of the father.
And your neglecting the childs right of life. Nothing is more important than life. Nothing
What is it that bothers you the most?
You can\'t argue that it is immoral. Unless you are mentally and your conscience doesn\'t let you live because of the abortions that happen everyday, then it isn\'t your problem. If the woman thinks she can live knowin that she "killed" her baby, then let her.
You can\'t make a woman HAVE a child. That\'s the end of it. If there was some way to magically make the baby come out of the people defending the "childs right of life" then I would have no problem with it. Why bring a child into this world by forcing the mother? It would only cause the child to grow up in a household where it isn\'t wanted. Adoption? How many kid\'s grow up straight and are adopted...I don\'t mean straight as in sexual preference. The kid is going to have to suffer moving from foster home to foster home until somebody "wants" him. Then he becomes the "burden" or responsibility of those new parents. Plus, if he is old enough to know and ask why he was adopted, what is going to happen when he finds out he was originally planned to be aborted?
Yes, Women get way too many rights. Guys always get screwed in those cases.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
What is it that bothers you the most?
You can\'t argue that it is immoral. Unless you are mentally and your conscience doesn\'t let you live because of the abortions that happen everyday, then it isn\'t your problem. If the woman thinks she can live knowin that she "killed" her baby, then let her.
You can\'t make a woman HAVE a child. That\'s the end of it. If there was some way to magically make the baby come out of the people defending the "childs right of life" then I would have no problem with it. Why bring a child into this world by forcing the mother? It would only cause the child to grow up in a household where it isn\'t wanted. Adoption? How many kid\'s grow up straight and are adopted...I don\'t mean straight as in sexual preference. The kid is going to have to suffer moving from foster home to foster home until somebody "wants" him. Then he becomes the "burden" or responsibility of those new parents. Plus, if he is old enough to know and ask why he was adopted, what is going to happen when he finds out he was originally planned to be aborted?
Yes, Women get way too many rights. Guys always get screwed in those cases.
I\'m confused on the point of ryou post. We all know there is no easy way to make the judgement and we all know that yes, the woman has to carry the child and it comes down to her. And that we cannot make them have a child - but the simple fact is, the males are getting screwed over and losing more and more rights every moment.
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You can\'t argue that it is immoral.
Not sure if your justifying the morality of it or not.
I think it should be up to the parents.
Thats the dilemna, a father may want a child, someone to love and cherish and father. A mother may not want to go through the pain, and troubles of motherhood. Who has the most say? What is going to be the chosen path?
I think the father should get the child. The mother knows the risk of birth, and knows that their are ways to control it, even if she did not have these tools, she had common sense.
Also, Sirmystiq, I know very many people that have been adopted. Just because their DNA doesnt match, their hearts do.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Adoption? How many kid\'s grow up straight and are adopted...I don\'t mean straight as in sexual preference. The kid is going to have to suffer moving from foster home to foster home until somebody "wants" him. Then he becomes the "burden" or responsibility of those new parents. Plus, if he is old enough to know and ask why he was adopted, what is going to happen when he finds out he was originally planned to be aborted?
I know many people who are adopted and they are straight. They are just like every other kid in my school. They aren\'t emotionally messed up. Infact, some I know would rather be where they are today and are happy with their lives. Don\'t get confused and say that adoption is a bad thing and can ruin an adopted kids life.
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Why should someone who\'s adopted move \'from foster home to foster home\'? Adoption is for life (at least around these parts).
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I believe SirMystiq is confusing adoption and foster care. Some kids under foster care do move from home to home, when their parents are trying to fix their lives or a court case is underway deciding their fate.
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He is indeed confusing adoption for foster care, though foster care can sometimes lead to an adoption.
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I\'m pro-choice about adortion just like I\'m pro choice when it comes to gun control. let them do what they want, its their body not ours. who care if its another life? Who are we to stand between them?
And protection is not 100% safe. I have condoms breaking on me twice and I\'m not that aggressive. They are just pieces of plastic. They only lower the chance of you making babies, not prevent.
on a side note:Titan, I\'ve seen that cat Avatar before. Talk about a small world...
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Originally posted by lionken07
I\'m pro-choice about adortion just like I\'m pro choice when it comes to gun control. let them do what they want, its their body not ours. who care if its another life? Who are we to stand between them?
You do realize the difference right?
One they can kill their own fetus and the other they can kill you.
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Originally posted by videoholic
You do realize the difference right?
One they can kill their own fetus and the other they can kill you.
yea i agree i\'m all for gun control but i feel nobody should have guns. yea i know i\'ll catch some heat for sayin that but if these wacko\'s didn\'t have these guns i\'m sure they\'d have alot less bravado in their blood. see i don\'t mind takin a guy on if he\'s weilding a knife, but once he whips out the gat then i\'m his biatch!:D (sorry to take it off topic there a bit)
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Originally posted by videoholic
You do realize the difference right?
One they can kill their own fetus and the other they can kill you.
going a little off topic here, but yes I do know the difference but to me they are very closely related.
Even if you make it illegal they will still get rid of the babies, just the same with guns. Bad guys buy them on in the dark. They don\'t get guns like us who buy them under the law. so clips, those wacko actually get the guns from the black market, most of them can\'t get it lawfully. Abortion too, women get them all over the country, if you make them illegal then it will cause more danger towards the women whos getting it (going to run-of-the-mill doctor and such). Its not like it can really stop people from getting abortion...:surprised I\'m not making myself very clearly but you get the point.
a side note :gman: ok where did this smilies coming from?? :D :D
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With that kind of mindset you should just legalize all drugs because it\'s more dangerous to buy them now illegal. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Bozco
With that kind of mindset you should just legalize all drugs because it\'s more dangerous to buy them now illegal. :rolleyes:
To a degree, I agree with that.
With drugs being illegal, more people are out to buy them, espically the younger group of people, just for the thrill of breaking the law.
Then again, I think as human\'s, we should have the right to put whatever we want in our body, without the goverment saying so.
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Damn me to hell for starting a whole different topic.
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Originally posted by lionken07
on a side note:Titan, I\'ve seen that cat Avatar before. Talk about a small world...
I use it on another forum. Maybe you saw it there.