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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: (e) on January 30, 2004, 10:44:25 PM
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In the UN Charter it states that "Weapons of Mass Destruction" shall not be owned or operated or whatever.
Iraq apparently has a big boo-boo by having them, right?
But America, having enough nukes, correct me If Im wrong, to toast the planet.
So how does this work out?
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it\'s about intent
countries with dictators + nukes = bad
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Exactly what mm said. Which, to add on to it...
For example, supposing that Iraq had WMD, it would be REALLY bad especially for the surrounding nations (espeically Israel). If Iran, or any of the other dictator controlled nations in the Middle East had nukes, mix Islamiofacist with weapons that could kill millions, also bad. It has been shown that terrorist will stop at nothing to get what it wants (which is, to terrorize and kill millions of the enemy, in this case, the US and the free world). So a nuke, in these nations that are "friendly" to terrorist, is not good. North Korea having nukes is also bad given the instability of one Kim Jong Il (could easily use them against, say, South Korea or Japan before we would get there to help. This in turn would mean that both South Korea and Japan would have to develop their own nukes to make sure the balance of power is not shifted to North Korea). And if said person were to make threats, unlike the US where the people could throw the bum out, he is there for life AND could do anything he want. Even kill millions of people along the way if he wanted. Not to mention, unlike the US, they are litterally STARVING their own people so that they could keep our nukes. Is this a nation you want to have WMD?
US on the otherhand...HAS NEVER USED A NUCLEAR WEAPON AFTER WWII. I will tell you that, we also have no intention of using one again unless forced to. 50 odd years and we have NEVER used a nuclear weapon. Even if using one could\'ve, say, ended the Vietnam war in our favor. Or elminated all of our enemies in one fall swoop. This nation is not run by some crazed madman (despite what everyone says) bent on destroying the world.
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Plus Iraq was under specific weapon sanctions after the first Gulf War.
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Originally posted by mm
it\'s about intent
countries with dictators + nukes = bad
You know you could of just said North Korea and have done with it ;)
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Originally posted by Simchoy
Exactly what mm said. Which, to add on to it...
For example, supposing that Iraq had WMD, it would be REALLY bad especially for the surrounding nations (espeically Israel). If Iran, or any of the other dictator controlled nations in the Middle East had nukes, mix Islamiofacist with weapons that could kill millions, also bad. It has been shown that terrorist will stop at nothing to get what it wants (which is, to terrorize and kill millions of the enemy, in this case, the US and the free world). So a nuke, in these nations that are "friendly" to terrorist, is not good. North Korea having nukes is also bad given the instability of one Kim Jong Il (could easily use them against, say, South Korea or Japan before we would get there to help. This in turn would mean that both South Korea and Japan would have to develop their own nukes to make sure the balance of power is not shifted to North Korea). And if said person were to make threats, unlike the US where the people could throw the bum out, he is there for life AND could do anything he want. Even kill millions of people along the way if he wanted. Not to mention, unlike the US, they are litterally STARVING their own people so that they could keep our nukes. Is this a nation you want to have WMD?
US on the otherhand...HAS NEVER USED A NUCLEAR WEAPON AFTER WWII. I will tell you that, we also have no intention of using one again unless forced to. 50 odd years and we have NEVER used a nuclear weapon. Even if using one could\'ve, say, ended the Vietnam war in our favor. Or elminated all of our enemies in one fall swoop. This nation is not run by some crazed madman (despite what everyone says) bent on destroying the world.
but..but...oh egad! you made some good points i have to agree. but i also feel the u.s. have to control these regimes in unison. all arab countries cannot hate the u.s. for NO reason, no wait i live in america where some are hated just for the color of skin..anyway it must be a reason..maybe the us. policies are geared too much toward favoring israel. i totally agree with you on all your views,.. there are just blatantly some wackos running countries that clearly shouldn\'t be. i just felt the u.s. should have went with the world body as far as iraq is concerned
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you think racism only exists in the US? Go check out Ireland and their mini catholic and protestant wars.
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Catholicism is a race?
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Originally posted by ViVi
you think racism only exists in the US? Go check out Ireland and their mini catholic and protestant wars.
i don\'t think racism exists only in the u.s. read i stated no wait. meaning people will hate you for whatever reason. even if i go to china, japan i might be hated by some just for my color. hell in some anime they still draw black people with big lips . Not sure if thats just how they view us or whatever..i understand i could also be hated in arab countries just for the fact that i\'m from america. all i\'m saying is imo it gotta be a reason for the hatred, other than they are just jealous of us.
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While Catholics vs. Protestent thing isn\'t in itself, racist (more relgious violence then racism), it is, inadvertently, racist given the make up of Catholics and Protestents (Irish are Catholics, Anglo-Saxons are Protestent).
As for why the Arab world hates us, two words, freedom and modernity. America represents both. Freedom, which the fanatical Islamofacist hate because they feel, it is "against Islam", and modernity for, for intent and purpose, modernity left Islam behind (some by choice for modernity is "against their religion"). Part of it, IS jealously. Look at the Arab countries, compared to the the US and other Western nations in terms of wealth productivity (in other words, what does the Arab world produce [other then oil] to help lift them from poverity?). Even in the oil nations, because the wealth never makes it to the common people, MOST still live in extreme poverty. The ecomony, is so dependent on oil that, if the oil were to stop flowing, these nations would be back in complete poverty.
And of course, ignorance is another reason why the hate us. For the dictators to stay in power, they HAVE to have an enemy. That enemy, is the US...Jews, and the "west" in general. All in the name of religion.
Note, there is less "hate" of the US in more "secular" nations like Turkey and Indonesia. However, even in these nations, they do have "fundamentalist" leanings and extremist groups that could change that if they were ever to take power.
Yes, like EVERYTHING, this doesn\'t mean ALL Arabs/Muslims (majority of Muslims are not Arabs) believe this. Just those that choose to follow their dictator, do so with their religion. The only way this can change, is if the the moderates in the religion becomes change this perception, DON\'T expect this to happen anytime soon.
As for the UN, until they solve the Congo crisis, Zimbabwe crisis, Ivory Coast crisis, Kosovo (its still unstable no matter what Clark says), then I would care what they do.
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Okay thanks.
Thats what I was guessing.
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Yeah, me too. If you gave control of the world\'s supply of weapons to pacifists, you\'re okay.
If you give them to power-hungry, sadistic Turkish dictators.. well.. you just don\'t want that. :)
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Its about time we kicked the spineless UN out of NY and withdraw from it just like we did from the League of Nations. The UN is worthless.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Its about time we kicked the spineless UN out of NY and withdraw from it just like we did from the League of Nations. The UN is worthless.
yeah
:rolleyes: Might is Right:rolleyes: ;)
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Might (aka the US) is always right considering Europe has degenerated into a band of sniveling pacifists and the UN as a whole is a malfunctioning entity that is a waste of money - mostly US dollars at that.
Europe lost its backbone after World War 2. This isn\'t a personal attack on Europeans, but it seems Europe is now led by the French and their endless attempts to make everyone except the US happy. I guess they are still pissed that French is no longer the language of diplomacy.
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But but but...the world SHOULD be like France! Like consider important things, like banning headscarves. After all, the most dangerous thing in the world is children wearing headscarves in school! :rolleyes:
[edit]And no, I do not think the US is always "right". But neither is the European Union (mainly France, Germany), and DEFFINETLY not the UN (which is fast becoming another Leauge of Nations. In other words, useless).
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Originally posted by Simchoy
As for why the Arab world hates us, two words, freedom and modernity. America represents both. Freedom, which the fanatical Islamofacist hate because they feel, it is "against Islam", and modernity for, for intent and purpose, modernity left Islam behind (some by choice for modernity is "against their religion"). Part of it, IS jealously. Look at the Arab countries, compared to the the US and other Western nations in terms of wealth productivity (in other words, what does the Arab world produce [other then oil] to help lift them from poverity?). Even in the oil nations, because the wealth never makes it to the common people, MOST still live in extreme poverty. The ecomony, is so dependent on oil that, if the oil were to stop flowing, these nations would be back in complete poverty.
some how i find this paragraph tye most ignorant thing i ever read, sorry bro but u got to stop watching Fox news and CNN. so what, u think the arab world is just comprised of camels and oil pumps huh :laughing:. i suggest u should actually try visiting an Arab country then talk about how backward we are :rolleyes:.
and one more thing for a while now alot of Arab countries are turning themselves into financial centers and trade-zones rather than just relying on oil to bring in the money prime examples are the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar..etc.
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Did you read the rest of my reply? Did I say ALL of Arab/Muslim world was in poverty? Of course not! Did I mean to say ALL Arabs? NO! And yes, I\'m not as ignorant as you think I am. I KNOW that the UAE and others are becoming more advance and diversifying (should be noted, most of UAE\'s wealth does not come from oil! But from banking and other commerce. Which, unlike a certain neighboring nation [which the Prince and other royal members are moving their fortunes to the UAE. Makes you wonder about where that certain country, also is the center of the Islamic religion mind you, is heading] will not have as big of a problem if the oil valves are shut off).
Also, IMO, UAE and other Islamic nations are "freer" then even Saudi Arabia, old Iraq, current Iran, Lybia (though Ghadaffi is making some changes), Pakistan (which has nukes! Oddly enough, Mushariff is better then a few of the alternatives), Afghanistan, and a number of other nations in the area (friendiler to the US too. Heck, Qutar for example, US ally). Granted, they still are heavily Islamic and freedom is still not the same as what you would call in the US, or even Britain, but still, freer then other countires (in fact, UAE has secretly been trading with Israel. Even though, they still do not recognize Israel).
However, it must still be noted, most of the Arab nations (NOT ALL. BUT MOST) still relies heavily on oil. Besides oil, where you have you seen a Made in Jordan? Or a Made in Syria products? Better yet, Made in Iran? At least Egypt has tourism to get some dough other then oil, but what else? Religious suppression is one of the reasons this is the case, and with the power of the fundamentalist, will remain so until the "moderates" take power.
I believe a freer, less fundamentalist, government can turn the lives of the area around, and in turn, less hateful for the US and the west (in a way, this is true with the UAE, Turkey, Malaysia, and Indonesia). But, STRICTLY talking about what many of them hate us (did I say everyone? I\'m sorry, next time I have watch out when I over "generalize" that the media and other people can get away with. :rolleyes: ) and the west in general, that is why.
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yes i did read yer last post entirely, and for the record i said what u wrote was ignorant, i did not call u ignorant. it was kinda hard to not feel that u were\'nt genearlising in yer post .
also another thing u seem to associate the lack of freedom with Islam , i can see how easy it is to come to this conclusion but u have to realise that its not Islam wich is the problem but its the people who choose to manipulate the religon to their benefit, unfortunately no end to this problem is in sight.
Originally posted by Simchoy
However, it must still be noted, most of the Arab nations (NOT ALL. BUT MOST) still relies heavily on oil. Besides oil, where you have you seen a Made in Jordan? Or a Made in Syria products? Better yet, Made in Iran?
well u wont see any products of these countries outside the middle east but they include textile\'s, handicrafts, agricultural products ...(these are just the stuff from the top of my head) :).
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Their was a guy from Bahrain that I went to school with and he hated America because how much respect we gave women. He would gripe about it every day. And no, I didn\'t read any of your guys post.
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To go along with Bozco, one of the problem (as I have stated before [if not this thread, in another one]) isn\'t the religion, but the interpertation of that religion. Even in moderate "secular" Islamic nations, the push for Sharia (at least the way the Imams interperate Sharia) is interperated to mean that men have all the power, women none to little.
This doesn\'t mean that this is why Arabs/Islamic fundies hate us for this reason (or this reason alone), but is another issue that would make the fundies hate us. Simple respect of women\'s civil rights.
[edit]Oh, and Tyrant, note that I have always mentioned the moderates. I never intended to have Islam=no freedom. The moderates, for the most part, ARE trying to integrate Islam into the modern world and give greater rights to, not only women, but respect to other religions as well. If the moderates were to take power in the nations that are controlled by dictators, I\'m certain these Islamic nations can be a modern and free nations. But, until that happens (Iran just recently banned many "reform" candidates from the elections. The elections determine the, pretty much powerless parliment given that the hard-line clerics have veto power), the so-called "Arab Streets" will not be friendly to the US or the West anytime soon.