PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Ginko on March 10, 2004, 09:31:42 PM
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Ever wonder what life would be like without silly little things gnats, butt hair, boy bands, politics, pride, or religion? While all these topics deserve their own special attention I\'d like to turn to religion for this post.
Why is it that so many people are obsessed with looking beyond themselves for answers to their lives? Their beliefs, morals, and ultimately their existence are drawn from an unknown and they reinforce their lives off it everyday. Ask yourself...are your beliefs entirely random as to what household you ended up in or what side of town you grew up on, what country you were born in?
God, Allah, Mecca, etc. Same thing, different spelling.
How is it that so many people abandon free thinking for faith? Are people so drained of life that they\'ve lost the ability to interpret life as it is so instead take a page from someone elses book? A someone claiming to know the rights and wrongs of any given religion...someone, a person just like you and me, claiming they know how to live.
Did you know that the catholic church used to burn people for proclaiming that the sun was the center of our galaxy? The church found it unaccpetable that man would not be placed in the center of the universe so they killed people for it. You know how that one turned out...
How about the fact that it\'s been historically proven Mary Magdalene and Jesus were an item all those years ago when the church has been preaching she was a whore. Turns out she was of royal blood...oops again.
Those are just two examples but you get the point. What\'s not proven is open for discussion...think of something, we\'ll make them believe it so to speak.
BAh! There are so many directions I could go with this...I just needed to vent. I\'m getting tired of bible thumpers and their rants that boil down to inequality, self-righteousness, and their own foolish pride.
Perhaps religion started with good intentions but it\'s been largely distorted to become the largest grounds for prejudice.
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I see this as being the religious thread of the month, whether you intended it to be or not.
What I can add to this is the shear fact that I\'m not religious and people are continously speaking to me about The Passion. Just because I\'m not religious, and not dying to see this movie, doesn\'t mean I\'m a bad person. It is possible to have morals without being religious.
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The sooner someone goes ahead and develops a cheap, effecient, abundant, and clean energy source, the better off we\'ll be. I\'m sick and tired of everyone on Earth living and dying by the crude we pump each day and how this insignificant black crap can rule all of our lives in one way or another.
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Careful Ryu.... With talk like that you might upset GmanJoe.
;)
anyway you might want to look into the Hydrogen Fuel cell debate, and the fact that ICELAND plans to be Fossile Fuel Froo By 2020.
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Froo indeed. And 2020 isn\'t soon enough. I was speaking more about cold fusion then anything else.
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Ah only noticed my type-o after i posted it ;)
Cold Fusion might be later than 2020.
But your right... we need to cut our over dependence on oil, its a Finite resource and has a high impact to both human health and the environment.
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Originally posted by Ryu
The sooner someone goes ahead and develops a cheap, effecient, abundant, and clean energy source, the better off we\'ll be. I\'m sick and tired of everyone on Earth living and dying by the crude we pump each day and how this insignificant black crap can rule all of our lives in one way or another.
We have hydrogen powered cars in our city. The biproduct is water vapor. :) So be patient. And don\'t bother with ooseven, he\'s all piss and fart but no real substance. He doesn\'t know that much about America as he thinks he does.
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Originally posted by Bozco
I see this as being the religious thread of the month, whether you intended it to be or not.
What I can add to this is the shear fact that I\'m not religious and people are continously speaking to me about The Passion. Just because I\'m not religious, and not dying to see this movie, doesn\'t mean I\'m a bad person. It is possible to have morals without being religious.
It is possible to have morals and not be religious. But, where do you think those morals came from? The Bible. Everything that is good comes from the Bible.
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Originally posted by Deadpool
It is possible to have morals and not be religious. But, where do you think those morals came from? The Bible. Everything that is good comes from the Bible.
your kidding right? :eek:
not to say that the bible doesn\'t have good morals, but to say they \'invented\' it is just stupid!
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Originally posted by politiepet
your kidding right? :eek:
not to say that the bible doesn\'t have good morals, but to say they \'invented\' it is just stupid!
In my old anthropology class, I remember reading that a lot of morals and culture of the past and present are greatly influenced by religion.
No, not just the Bible. I said "religion".
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1 : moral principles, teachings, or conduct
2 a : the mental and emotional condition (as of enthusiasm, confidence, or loyalty) of an individual or group with regard to the function or tasks at hand b : a sense of common purpose with respect to a group : ESPRIT DE CORPS
3 : the level of individual psychological well-being based on such factors as a sense of purpose and confidence in the future
A respect for living and those around you can be owned by anyone.
"This is the way in to heaven." Doesn\'t that upset you in the least bit that a person could be telling you this? Why is it so acceptable when millions are doing? What makes them so sure or what started it all?
It was once believed that the rising and setting of the sun was due to Helios and a flaming chariot. Earthquakes and tidal waves were the wrath of Posiedon(sp?), and those were eventually proven to be false by science. Could it be that someday science will have all the answers that relegion still claims...Where do we come from, what are we doing here, and what is the meaning of it all?
Why is it either God or The Big Bang Theory? These two sound pretty similar to me. Everything from nothing. A singularity that created it all...why is it that religion was so opposed to scholars back in the day as to call them heretics. Could it be a struggle for power?
And the bible...I\'ve never opened it to tell the truth but I used to go to church every Sunday. Everything I\'ve heard always starts with "As told by", then it\'s followed by a disciple\'s name or something like that. People lie and exaggerate sometimes, even more so to get a point across. I do think that some of the readings are inspirational but at what costs...the truth, perhaps your ability to think for yourself.
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Veritas! Veritas! Beware.....some truths can burn your soul and change you into a quivering pile of flesh (or jello, if you\'re fat).
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
We have hydrogen powered cars in our city. The biproduct is water vapor. :) So be patient. And don\'t bother with ooseven, he\'s all piss and fart but no real substance. He doesn\'t know that much about America as he thinks he does.
We have all these kinds of cars around here and it certainly doesn\'t hurt that the Prious is the car of the year according to all the famous car award givers (if that stands for anything) and it gets friggn excellent gas mileage while being relatively affordable and fairly stylish as far as hybrid cars go. I\'m glad to see alternatives to ween the general public off of fossil fuels, but the question in the thread wasn\'t really dealing with how far away technology is or just how grounded our wants are in some type of perpetual realism that\'s "far away." It\'s what I want and I want it today. Whether or not it will happen, is a totaly different thread altogether.
Ginko is asking for, basically, religion to take a much more subtle approach in people\'s lives rather then this full blown evangelist crap we see everyday when people use the words of the bible as a sword or a shield rather then as a warm blanket for comfort or a device for knowledge. He certainly won\'t have that this year, and I won\'t get my cold fusion, but hey, we could certianly, as a species, learn to do without fossile fuels and excessive religion.
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Larry David drives a Prius on CYE. That show rocks...
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there is also the Honda V3...
In addition to the ultracapacitor, Honda introduces an abundance of other advances in the FCX V3 over earlier fuel-cell concepts. They include:
Lighter weight and a 50 percent larger hydrogen fuel tank.
A lighter, more compact and more powerful drive motor.
Four-passenger seating.
A 10-second startup time versus 10 minutes.
A 5-minute refueling time versus 20 minutes.
Weight is still a problem with electric-based vehicles, and the FCX is no exception. It has pounds to shed before it can match scales with today\'s small sedans. Honda says the FCX has a 3600-pound curb weight versus about 2400 pounds for a similar-size car with an internal-combustion engine. The fuel-cell stack must go on a serious diet before a salable version of this vehicle can be produced
http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/concept_cars/2000/12/Hydrogen_Fuel-Cell_Car/print.phtml
From the sounds of things the Car would be "do-able" with the excpetion of the following (reason why there is a 10 to 20 year wait).
- Weight of the Car is still two heavy (requirment in design refinement)
- The weight also causes the car to doesn\'t react slowly to sudden turns
- the distrobution of Hydrogen Fuel and storage tanks to conventional petrol (gas)stations.
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Since I\'m already a huge friggin nerd as it is, there\'s a comic out now that actually deals with this (fuel cell) topic where a corporation invented a battery that lasts forever without recharging. The battery was adapted for cell phones, cars, cameras, radioes, you name it. If it uses a battery, these guys invented a cell to make it last forever. The neat thing was, in the second volume, it was found that the battery, when the combustible fuels in a vehicle ran out, this was a stock car mind you, actually powered the pistons of the engine through some type of charge for 180 miles after the gasoline ran out until the engine literally stopped working from some type of thermal breakdown.
Though these are all interesting and neat ideas, I can\'t help but imagine just how many people would end up homeless and poor when all the fuel providing companies, the middile eastern coalitions, all the battery providing companies were run pretty much into the ground due to the introduction of this vastly superior product. It makes you wonder about the state of the government or all the inventions that were possibly discovered but quietly tucked away for a later time when the world was actually ready to assimilate such a thing into every day life. It certianly would explain the slow progression vehicles have taken when it comes to fuel alternatives.
Meh, that\'s probably just too alturistic of a notion because, if you think about it, that would mean the government was looking into the people\'s best interests and that\'s something that just doesn\'t happen often since the cold war. ;)
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Just a quickie.. religion as a whole is more or less a moral guide. It has many facets, such as faith that makes people more confident.. but this is one that I think people overlook the most.
When you vehemently bash religion, you\'re bashing morals too. Of course, some people take it far too seriously and become fascists. Some Christians, but a better example would be Muslims.
Do good, you\'re okay. Do bad, I chop your hand off. You\'re not supposed to commit adultery so I won\'t allow my wife\'s face to be seen so you\'re not tempted. Etc etc..
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Originally posted by Blade
Just a quickie.. religion as a whole is more or less a moral guide. It has many facets, such as faith that makes people more confident.. but this is one that I think people overlook the most.
Live by these morals and you are saved, don\'t and you are damned. I\'m sorry but I\'d like to know where the morals for any given religion came from in the first place and why they should apply to me or anyone else for that matter. One hot topic right now is marriage...who deemed it morally right that it is between a man and a woman. What self-righteous jackass had any idea he/she could speak for anyone but themselves?
confident...of what? That in the name of God they will be rewarded for their devotion.
When you vehemently bash religion, you\'re bashing morals too.
That\'s right...I\'m questioning why should I be judged by anyone elses\' ideas but my own.
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you want morals? Than I suggest you check out the 4 noble truths and Noble 8 Fold Path, in Buddhism. Buddha taught these morals, which are the basis of all religions in the 6th century BC. So saying the bible invented morals is insane.
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If god really does exist (and personally i kinda wish he did sometimes) then id laugh my ass off at the people who always say "GOD. What a load of shit. Blah blah blah." Id stand at the gates as they are refused entrance and laugh. And those people that act that hell would be some wonderful place are just ****ing stupid.
Anyway...
I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and a lot of the time im not even thinking about god or anything and im not very religious either but some people get so irked out by religious people that its kinda sad. Religious people arent killing people left and right in America (eventhough they do sometimes). And you are confronted by these kinds of people maybe 3-4 times a month? Who the **** cares. Just bitch them out ignore them, w/e you like doing. Its not like they will shoot you. Take a ****ing chill pill.
Religion actually makes a lot of people happy believe it or not. And those that arent because they live under uber strict rules are not even anybody\'s problem. Eh. It doesnt matter much. Religion is becoming less influential in a time where more and more people believe only themselves and not some higher power. I personally dont care too much. Religious people bother me too sometimes but just because somebody believes in a higher power doesnt make you smarter (Its a fact that most people that dont believe in god think they are smarter than those that do).
Meh.
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If god really does exist (and personally i kinda wish he did sometimes) then id laugh my ass off at the people who always say "GOD. What a load of shit. Blah blah blah." Id stand at the gates as they are refused entrance and laugh. And those people that act that hell would be some wonderful place are just ****ing stupid.
Not sure if this was directed at me...if so then you didn\'t really get where I was going. I wasn\'t ranting about the existence of god, I do believe that there is such a thing.
I\'ll quote Ryu:
Ginko is asking for, basically, religion to take a much more subtle approach in people\'s lives rather then this full blown evangelist crap we see everyday when people use the words of the bible as a sword or a shield rather then as a warm blanket for comfort or a device for knowledge. He certainly won\'t have that this year, and I won\'t get my cold fusion, but hey, we could certianly, as a species, learn to do without fossile fuels and excessive religion.
In addition I don\'t think I\'m better or worse off than any other person here for what I do or don\'t believe. What irks me more than anything is the church itself and their interpretations of life.
The catholic church is one I really don\'t care for...
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Originally posted by Deadpool
It is possible to have morals and not be religious. But, where do you think those morals came from? The Bible. Everything that is good comes from the Bible.
I don\'t hold the door for someone at school because of the bible. I do this to help the other person. It\'s all about relationships between two beings, you do things depending on how you want to be viewed by them. I sure as hell don\'t care what other people think about me because of the bible, I do because it makes me feel good to know I\'m helping someone else.
I was raised Catholic and I feel like so much is forced on me being in a Catholic family. Luckily, my parents aren\'t very strict, otherwise I\'d go crazy. They just are appalled sometimes when I speak of not being very religious. The first thing I hear out of their mouth is but you\'ll go to hell. I guess being a good person isn\'t enough now a\' days. This reminds me of something someone I know is going through. Their grandma is trying to get them baptized late, speaking of how they\'ll go to hell otherwise, while they\'ve already lived a good life for a while.
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Originally posted by Ginko
Not sure if this was directed at me...if so then you didn\'t really get where I was going. I wasn\'t ranting about the existence of god, I do believe that there is such a thing.
I\'ll quote Ryu:
In addition I don\'t think I\'m better or worse off than any other person here for what I do or don\'t believe. What irks me more than anything is the church itself and their interpretations of life.
The catholic church is one I really don\'t care for...
Well at first it was directed towards you but then it evolved into the mass of people who act the way i suggested. Thanx for explaining. And I agree with you on that. Basically, if the church doesnt do anything to you then why should you care? I mean my dad is catholic and i hate going to church with him and i dont. I enjoy going to the stereotypical black church where we sing all intense and you can hear people shouting "preach!" in the background. Those people wont kill you for not being diehard god. Anyway.... If you have no ties with the catholic church then F it.
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Anyway.... If you have no ties with the catholic church then F it.
I do though...my ENTIRE family is catholic. All of them!
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Also, I find it rather funny how there are practically hundreds if not thousands of different (-fractions of-) religions, all claiming to be \'TEH ONE!11\'.
Mankind is flawed. So is everything ever recorded by human beings. People distort things and/or lie. Just think of the game where you whisper one sentence into the ear of the person next to you, and s/he does the same. After only a few people the original sentence is all wrong...
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I see some say you don\'t need the Bible to tell you what is good or bad.
I could say alot about that, but, I will just say, where do you draw the line?
Without a set standard, your \'wrong\' will continue to turn to \'OK\', and what may seem \'wrong\' 20 years ago, will be right soon. So where do you draw the line?
Some politician was on the news and was asked "Who decides what should be on TV and what shouldn\'t?"
The politician\'s reply was "The people decide."
So, who do you think should decide? You may say "I will decide." But really, isn\'t it your neighbor who decides? Over the past 50 years Hollywood and the like has decided. Popular movements, politicians, and others have decided.
So, you have 2 choices
A. Let Hollywood, politicians, and others decide your morals
B. Look for a higher power to decide your morals
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Refrain from calling it a higher power when there are people who don\'t even begin to believe in it. Actually, this is the perfect example of what has been brought up.
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well this will always be a complicated subject. White supremacists will say that god made whites the chosen people and they will whole-heartedly tell you that they are right and no matter what argument you bring to the table they will claim that they are right just because they are.
That was a somwhat bland example but you can never really say what is good and what is bad. One might say that according to Darwin that they killed somebody because they were hindering their prosperity and thus it is justified that he killed that person. Survival of the fittest could be an argument and scientists believe in this theory but of course nobody applies it to us as humans.
Its difficult to draw a line and as we evolve as a species we will just have to collectively decide where that line should be. It may destroy us and it may not, but we never know until it happens.
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Originally posted by alliswell
I see some say you don\'t need the Bible to tell you what is good or bad.
I could say alot about that, but, I will just say, where do you draw the line?
Without a set standard, your \'wrong\' will continue to turn to \'OK\', and what may seem \'wrong\' 20 years ago, will be right soon. So where do you draw the line?
That\'s just it...a higher power did not dictate what\'s right and wrong. At some point people decided they are in the know when it comes to living righteously...simply say "God told me so" or "this is the way to heaven" and you suddenly have followers.
Without a set standard, your \'wrong\' will continue to turn to \'OK\', and what may seem \'wrong\' 20 years ago, will be right soon. So where do you draw the line?
It\'s those standards that I\'m arguing. To many religions are about living righteously than simply living well. It\'s almost as if religion has become a scare tactic in order to act a certain way by listing all the "no\'s". People get hung up on the negatives and in the worst case scenario you get holy wars that have gone on for centuries.
Simply, relgion should be:
Love thyself
Love thy neighbor
Instead we get:
It\'s your world. NO!
It\'s your life. NO!
It\'s your choice. NO!
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Originally posted by Ginko
Live by these morals and you are saved, don\'t and you are damned. I\'m sorry but I\'d like to know where the morals for any given religion came from in the first place and why they should apply to me or anyone else for that matter. One hot topic right now is marriage...who deemed it morally right that it is between a man and a woman. What self-righteous jackass had any idea he/she could speak for anyone but themselves?
Seeing as how you said you you used to go to Church every sunday, I think your first question should be obvious. Whether it is the Torah, Tipitaka, Koran, Bible, or Bhagavad Gita those who follow a religion draw their moral codes from the teaching in their respective holy book.
That is why so many christians have come out against gay marriage. In their holy book, it says that homosexuality is an "abomination". It also says that those who work on the Sabbath should be put to death, eating shellfish is ALSO an abomination, and that slavery is legal as long as they are purchased from neighboring nations. So I don\'t know if that is the best place to go for ultimate law.
(On a side note, maybe abomination used to mean "really gross". Like, "Jesus, thou hast stepped in the poop of a horse. The smell is an abomination" or "Did thou hearest what doth transpired betwixt the caananites at Mary\'s pool party after Jesus verily turned the pool to wine? When it cometh to the chicks it is cool but the dude on dude stuff was an abomination.")
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all hail clipism! ;) so the question is when is sin not a sin? you can kill somebody it\'s a sin, when you\'re fighting a war and kill, is it still a sin? It is but it\'s for a righteous cause right? Being slightly sarcastic but serious at the same time also.
point is you gotta have rules,..you gotta have guidlines..remember those virgin comercials (cell phone) with the naked people in them? I don\'t want to sound like an old fart but even i felt that those commercials were inappropriate. As far as good or bad is concerned there is a gray area concerning abortions and things of that nature..but like someone stated earlier something considered bad today will be accepted tomorrow.
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Problem with non-Christians is how poorly they misinterpret the Bible. For example, they can\'t distinguish between the NEW and OLD testament.
This is simple.
Old testament = No longer in practice.
New testament = What most Christians try to abide by today.
The church has been corrupt by politics and other outside influences over the years, often plagued with hypocrisy.
I\'m all about a personal relationship, me and God.
Jesus rocks as well.
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So do you just read the bible and follow god as opposed to heading to church all the time?
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Honestly I rarely just pick up the Bible and read it. I do go to church a lot and help out, because it makes me feel good to just help out. Some churches are more corrupt then others, as biased as this may sound, my church is very clean cut and extremely friendly.
I think its important to take some parts of the Bible with a grain of salt, and use your own intuition to determine what God wants.
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"What does God need with a starship?" --Captain James T. Kirk
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Julius Cæsar » Jesus Christ. The Romans were the true authors of the New Testament. Christianity was created by the Romans as a tool, originally intended to be used by Roman aristocrats and priests to keep the slaves of Rome humble, fearful, hopeful, and submissive. Slavery was paramount to Roman aristocracy and to the Roman economy. Christianity emphasizes poverty, humility, submission, and servitude, with the promise of a glorious afterlife in heaven, but only following a lifetime of suffering obedient servility on earth.
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Amazing, Spudz knows how to copy and paste.
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I also know to save time by simply cutting and pasting my exact point.
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Spudz, you have a good point. It was also used as a tool during the medieval times as a weapon by saying that "this war is god\'s war, fight in it". As for people saying that true happiness is with God, I say that is a load of crap. I\'ve been agnostic/athiest for 3 years now and I\'ve never been happier. I have morals and a really nice and moral person. Did I get these from the Bible and religion? Some, but like abortion and premarital relations were crushed when I became athiest. Before, I was prolife and anti sex and antiperverted (like whacking off, etc). Now, I\'m neutral on abortion (I could care less), can\'t wait to have sex and have my hormones get the best of me sometimes. Does that mean I\'m immoral? No. I have morals. I don\'t lie, cheat or look down on others. Religion can be a good thing to follow, but there are too many people that take it way too seriously and literal. Also, I believe religion was intended as a way to guide people\'s lives. I believe the Bible was never a basis for religion but more as a way to guide people with stories to teach morals and lessons. God don\'t need me and I don\'t need him.
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Originally posted by Titan
Spudz, you have a good point. It was also used as a tool during the medieval times as a weapon by saying that "this war is god\'s war, fight in it". As for people saying that true happiness is with God, I say that is a load of crap. I\'ve been agnostic/athiest for 3 years now and I\'ve never been happier. I have morals and a really nice and moral person. Did I get these from the Bible and religion? Some, but like abortion and premarital relations were crushed when I became athiest. Before, I was prolife and anti sex and antiperverted (like whacking off, etc). Now, I\'m neutral on abortion (I could care less), can\'t wait to have sex and have my hormones get the best of me sometimes. Does that mean I\'m immoral? No. I have morals. I don\'t lie, cheat or look down on others. Religion can be a good thing to follow, but there are too many people that take it way too seriously and literal. Also, I believe religion was intended as a way to guide people\'s lives. I believe the Bible was never a basis for religion but more as a way to guide people with stories to teach morals and lessons. God don\'t need me and I don\'t need him.
i usually don\'t chime in much with religious threads but "god don\'t need me and i don\'t need him" i know you don\'t believe in him or whatever but you gotta admit..we come from somewhere...the big bang theory or the neantherthal (spell) theory i don\'t buy it. we just didn\'t appear from cosmic dust..i believe in one shape or another that we all have guardian angels watching over us..you can\'t say that you\'ve never been in a situation where you was like "damn i just can\'t believe i just got outa that jam!" there are other forces at work whether you realize it or not..
i had to put this in..looking at what i wrote might bring a little heat on me..i respect the fact that you have your beliefs..but let me ask you this and everyone else who doesn\'t believe in god..who do you think is our creator?
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Then there are the situations that leave you wondering where the hell is your guardian angel?!
Guardian angel, fate, luck...whatever you want to call it.
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Originally posted by Ginko
Then there are the situations that leave you wondering where the hell is your guardian angel?!
Guardian angel, fate, luck...whatever you want to call it.
in those situations i look at it as a learning experience..hell you don\'t want them to bail you out of everything right? ;)
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Originally posted by clips
i usually don\'t chime in much with religious threads but "god don\'t need me and i don\'t need him" i know you don\'t believe in him or whatever but you gotta admit..we come from somewhere...the big bang theory or the neantherthal (spell) theory i don\'t buy it. we just didn\'t appear from cosmic dust..i believe in one shape or another that we all have guardian angels watching over us..you can\'t say that you\'ve never been in a situation where you was like "damn i just can\'t believe i just got outa that jam!" there are other forces at work whether you realize it or not..
i had to put this in..looking at what i wrote might bring a little heat on me..i respect the fact that you have your beliefs..but let me ask you this and everyone else who doesn\'t believe in god..who do you think is our creator?
Yes, we did come from somewhere but I don\'t think some "supreme being" made everything. Then where did he come from? He couldn\'t have just appeared out of no where. That what created God? That couldn\'t have come out of no where. I believe in the big bang and the fact things evolved from there. This took billions of years to do (too tired to fully explain and the fact it would take forever). In a nutshell, earth was created through a long drawn out process of chemical reactions and synthesis. After the earth formed a familiar look and after years of it being in the molten state, the first cells were formed either in a primortial soup or when bacteria came in on asteroids and landed in earths ocean. All this has a one in a septtillion chance of happening. I don\'t feel like going into details but just thought I\'d give you enough so you can search for yourself (or I post in pieces, either way).
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Man, why the hell does everyone have to have such long posts in multi-paragraph form, when you could have the thing said and done in under 3 sentences.
Thats why no one participates in these really- too much reading.