PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Living-In-Clip on March 19, 2004, 08:01:35 PM
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Alright, as everyone knows I have been in the process of building a new system. So, now I\'ve got some prelimary specifcations , here\'s a rundown. You\'ll notice I am missing a DVD burner, monitor and speakers, so , post your suggestions on those three.
Thunder K8W (S2885) -
Opteron 242 X 2 -
RADEON 9800 XT 256MB -
2 GIG PC2700 DDR -
4 160 Gigs Drive -
Windows XP Pro -
ThermalTake Hardcano 12 -
Thoughts? Recommendations?
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I wouldn\'t bother with 256meg Vid cards. Won\'t make much difference. Also faster mem.
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If I am spending this much money on my system (over 3K), I am going to put high end components in it. You say it "won\'t make much a difference", much meaning it will make some slight difference, which is fine by me. Squeak every little bit out of it I can and when the next generation cards come out, upgrade again.
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hey dood, if u like wasting the cash to get that little bit extra that you\'ll only notice on paper and benchmark results, go for it. :)
Myself i\'d rather just keep up with the needed specs for current gaming and save S@#t loads of cash for other things.. Like case modding wooo. :)
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Because we all know case modding isn\'t a waste. :)
I am not really concerned with modding, but more performance.
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I get performance without wasting the cash in the process.. Why bother trying to get 200 fps on games when u only need a constant 60 etc.. Its just my opinion. I can understand getting cpus, mem or that etc. It changes perfomance in apps and games etc. But a 256meg card that will end up outdated pretty fast and for the cost they are is just a total waste. (which also doesn\'t add much more fps over 128meg cards)
Just wait for the next gen series and buy one of them, atleast you\'re getting what you pay for. Case modding isn\'t the only thing i waste my cash on, also waste it on other things like cds, dvds, 5.1 sound systems etc. Save your cash and get a 128meg card and put it towards faster mem etc.
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Well if you\'re going to drop this much money aren\'t you just going to wait for the next lines top card since it isn\'t too far around the corner?
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^ my point too. :) why pay out heaps for a 256meg card, when it\'ll be outdated pretty fast. Atleast waste your cash on a newer series card.
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The problem is that there is always a new card around the corner.
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back OT..
CRIKEY! You\'re system will kick arse, everyone will be asking you to post screenshots of how HL2 should look @ 1600x1200. :cool:
Just curious, why did you decide on 2 Opertons as opposed to the Athlon 64? I don\'t know much about the Operton but checking the prices on Pricewatch it seems like some good $#!+.
You seem to have a big budget for your new system, for the monitor consider looking at the 16:9 CRT Sony offers (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=IXVxD-_UIVZxKa-IBud7BKDE3_uu7i_73ZI=?CategoryName=cpu_Displays_CRT&ProductSKU=GDMFW900&Dept=cpu). Newer games are supporting widescreen resolutions, and many can be made 16:9 simply by editing a game config txt. $2g\'s on the site but defintely can be found elsewhere cheaper.
DVD burner, I dunno a Lite-On or Pioneer that can handle multiple formats..?
Speakers.. Klipsch Promedia Ultra (http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=712).
Even better some Tannoys (http://www.tannoyna.com/professional/product_RevealActive.html) or M-Audio Studio Monitors (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.list&ID=studiomonitors).
Note these choices are powered only for computer use.
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PS- don\'t listen to these g00ns about waiting for the next big thing. That can always be an excuse as every single new chipset for a card that ATi or nVidia releases is soon after upgraded. 5700, 5800, 5900, 5950.... 9800pro, 9800pro 256, 9800xt...
You\'ll be more than happy with your brand new 9800xt. And if a new card does come out that blows it out of the water (highly unlikely) you\'ll have no problem selling that sob on the Anandtech forums and spending a little extra to get that newer card.
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I agree with Soulgrind. I\'ve read countless tests that show almost no performance gain with 256mb vid cards. Waste of money IMHO.
Also 2 CPUs are also a waste of money. Seeing as you only get about 25% (if that) with a second CPU and not 100%.
Seeing as games and most applications are serial programmed apps, you won\'t get a significant jump in performance with another CPU.
Buy an Athlon 64 instead or the 3.4GHz P4 Extreme Edition.
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u might wanna ditch those 2 gigs of pc 2700 ram and get something like the corsair xms pc3200 ram, much better imo. other wise yer doing ok.
but why a dual proc? only a hand full of progs require a dual proc setup..
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256mb graphics card isn\'t an issue here since the XT *ONLY* comes in 256mb flavors. If you want him to go 9800pro just because there is an 128mb version then he\'ll lose about 10fps on games.
I told you, don\'t listen!:p
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I bought a 9800 Pro 128 recently, and I think they are priced reasonably right now. Sure, the XT 256 is "better," but not enough to warrant the absurdly higher price.
L-I-C I think you should cut some corners so you can buy new wheels for your Celica! :) That\'s the nightmare I\'m trapped in now. It used to be that my only purchasing goals were for the home theater and the PC. Now, the car is the first priority, and the other two are 2nd and 3rd.
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at least some people have brains ;) All i\'m saying is wait for the next gen, then when prices drop on this gen. Get one of the current cards. If you\'re willing to wait that is. Or just pay s@#tloads and get the next gen card.
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Originally posted by Tyrant
u might wanna ditch those 2 gigs of pc 2700 ram and get something like the corsair xms pc3200 ram, much better imo. other wise yer doing ok.
but why a dual proc? only a hand full of progs require a dual proc setup..
Why not dual processors? I was debating on a 64bit CPU or dual CPU\'s, so I decided to just go with dual 64bit CPU\'s. :) I had debated on Atholon 64, but decided to go with the Operton instead.
This PC will be used for gaming and some heavy video editing, so I see no reason not to splurge and just get the dual Operton\'s.
THX the problem with the monitor you suggested is it is a CRT - as I am doing what you done. Mounting an LCD on a swivel arm on the side of my couch, so I can use it whenever I want.
:)
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Why not dual processors? I was debating on a 64bit CPU or dual CPU\'s, so I decided to just go with dual 64bit CPU\'s. :) I had debated on Atholon 64, but decided to go with the Operton instead.
As I said earlier, the apps and games you are going to run will not be able to take advantage of the second cpu, at most it will be a 25% increase in performance and not 100%. Why waste 75% of the money you bought the second cpu for?
Sure if you are willing to spend a large amount of money for 5-10 fps more on a 256 mb card than a 128 mb card then go ahead, I think it\'s a waste of money.
These are just friendly advice of course. Just trying to put things into perspective and help.
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Originally posted by JP
As I said earlier, the apps and games you are going to run will not be able to take advantage of the second cpu, at most it will be a 25% increase in performance and not 100%. Why waste 75% of the money you bought the second cpu for?
Sure if you are willing to spend a large amount of money for 5-10 fps more on a 256 mb card than a 128 mb card then go ahead, I think it\'s a waste of money.
These are just friendly advice of course. Just trying to put things into perspective and help.
I obviously have the money to spend on the dual CPU\'s and its something I want - therefor its something I won\'t budge on. for the amount, I consider it worth it.
Then again, as I said earlier, I have the cash to spend on this PC and it is going to be my dream machine, therefor I am going to splurge on things most consider a waste o money. Do I need four 160 Hds? No, not really. Do I need dual CPUs? No, not really. The list goes on and on.
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I think its gonna be a sweet rig.
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i think your gonna piss away alot of money
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I think I am going to enjoy pissing all the money away.
:)
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dun forget to post your 3dmark scores so we can mock you
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I think you\'ll need those 4 160gb drives more than you realize at this point in time. You can never have enough storage IMO.
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When I heard (4) 160gb drives I assumed RAID, you can grab 2 300gb drives or wait for the new 400gb Hitachi coming soon.
Just make sure they are SATA, and Seagate if you\'re looking for quietness.
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Originally posted by THX
When I heard (4) 160gb drives I assumed RAID, you can grab 2 300gb drives or wait for the new 400gb Hitachi coming soon.
Just make sure they are SATA, and Seagate if you\'re looking for quietness.
You knew what I had planned. SATA RAID.
:)
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
I think I am going to enjoy pissing all the money away.
:)
You won\'t when u go to pc forums and view what people could do with 3+ grand. That would make your system look like a snail. Hell i could build a better system with 3 grand Australian. Just telling you how it is, we worry about u man.
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
You won\'t when u go to pc forums and view what people could do with 3+ grand. That would make your system look like a snail. Hell i could build a better system with 3 grand Australian. Just telling you how it is, we worry about u man.
Oddy enough, I frequent PC forums. This isn\'t "your" system. This isn\'t anyones system, \'cept for mine...This is my money and my dream system. I am not trying to set records, like some of you apparently think. Instead, I posted this hoping someone would offer some advice on the DVD-R and other things, instead, I get a zillion on posts on what you would do with 3K, or what CPU you would buy. Obviously, you guy\'s missed where I asked about monitor / speakers / DVD-R, didn\'t you?
No, it won\'t be the greatest PC in the world, but it meets my requirements and that is what is important. Why? Because, it\'s my money.
There with that said - if anyone offers any advice on what DVD-R to get or what you all may own, please, post it. I\'ve found my speakers, but I\'m still looking for a monitor.
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You wanted our thoughts, we gave them.
Go for Liteon or Pioneer for the DVDR.
With monitors it really depends on what your after.
High refresh rates with the High resoultions will cost more. What size do u want etc.
Samsung, LG, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Philips, ViewSonic and Viewmaster are a few brands u could look into.
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I personally do not run anything other than dual procs on my desktop pc\'s. It is a waste if you are a sucker and running win9x. Otherwise it is still a good idea. If no other reason that to load an app with a different affinity.
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Really depends on what you want to do with them, they can decrease performance on games not encoded for them. So if anyone plans on using them more for gaming then editing.
Sorry, you\'re a clueless moron. Thats my opinion on Dual Cpu systems. My next cpu update will most likely be a Athlon64. But i\'ll have to buy a new mobo too, so that will be in awhile. My next update will be a Gfx card.
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LIC I don\'t get you. I mean I understand it\'s your money and what not but if ppl are trying to give you sound advice on building a great pc for a cheaper price I don\'t understand how you can cop an attitude.
If I could save a $1000 and still have a high-end pc I would be totally pleased.
I am going to be building me a customer pc soon and I am gladly going to seek all the help I can.
I mean if you can get a top pc for under 3k why would you not want to do it?
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The one area I agree with LIC is the vid card. Go top of the line. I did with my last system, and even though it\'s a full generation behind, and almost 1.5 years old, I can still push modern FPS at high resolutions and max details into acceptable framerates.
You absolutely will notice a difference, depending on what kind of gaming you do.
As for the rest, hey man, your money, your system. For a nice monitor, I got the Samsung syncmaster 192N recently, and I really like it. I can even play FPS games with it, which was a pleasant surprise (although I have to play everything at 1280x1024 for it to look really good). For a DVD recorder, well, I don\'t have experience with the other brands, but my Sony has been "ok". Not great, cause even though it\'s a 4x burner, I had to burn at 2.4 for a long time (untill there was a firmware update). With the new 8x ones out, I\'m sure they\'re getting more reliable. Make sure you get one that can do multi-format.
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You can go top of the line without spending to much cash.
Example, When Gf4Ti cards came out. I ended searching for a card that had a wrap around sink, I ended up buying a Gf4ti4400 and overclocked it to ti4600 speeds. Its been over a year now it its still going fine. I saved about 200 bucks by doing that, and i come out even to Ti4600 users.
The Radeon 9800XT card doesn\'t come out much higher in FPS on a 128meg 9800 card. For the price difference it just isn\'t justified. I would wait for the new series and spend that much cash on one of those cards, or then get a radeon 9800XT when the price drops.
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Except you now compare your overclocked Ti4400 to a stock Ti4600. My 4600 (300 Mhz core, 650 Mhz Memory stock), is overclocked to 320 core, and 700 memory. It\'s stable there, and I could probably up it even more - although I don\'t need to yet. Can a 4400 do that? In three months when I\'m running games that I need to push my card up even higher, it\'ll still work.. and you\'ve reached your limits.
I just disagree with you, that\'s all.
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I\'m sure i can push my card further. Easily, and it still cost me less then the current ti4600 cards at the time.
I don\'t think u understand my point. I wanted a Ti4600 card, not to overclock just at stock speeds. With a little research i found a card that can be pushed more then ANY other brand that was, most likely still is on the market for GF4ti cards.
I got my Ti4600 card and it didn\'t cost me the price of a ti4600 card. I saved dollers for other things.
I\'m comparing a Overclocked Ti4400 card to a STOCK Ti4600 card, I said nothing about overclocking a ti4600 card.
I wouldn\'t pay 200 more dollers then i did to get a ti4600 card. No way would i have payed that much more just to overclock one.
So if your still unsure of my point. I bought a card way cheaper then the ti4600 cards, Yet i wanted Ti4600 stock speeds. Which i got.
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Sorry, you\'re a clueless moron.
Hello, pot calling kettle black.
Alright - MM or someone, close this thread. I\'ve grown tired of listening to constant rambling of Souly.
And yes, Souly, everyone who runs Dual Opertons on boards like Modthebox.com / Overclockerscafe.com / and various other reliable PC sites are "clueless morons".
:)
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they are if they think it gives full improved performance on games not designed for them. :) Most will come out slightly ahead, even or even less.
Please don\'t try to take my post out of context.
ps. Most likely those people at the those forums would agree with me. Why, because they\'re the facts. Next time don\'t ask for opinions if you don\'t want to hear them.
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SOUL out of curiosity. Would you please list your qualifications?
Edit: I only ask because in my experience some older poorly written apps will have some issues with multi-procs. Then again they tend to max out a single. Your OS is going to use both procs assuming the right hal is loaded. That will in turn give you a marginal increase in speed on games or apps that can use only one proc. If by some chance a game or app uses both processors. Say ID games. Then you will see quite a boost. Not to mention any app that can take advantage of it. Overall it is a mute point. I myself will not run anything other than multi, and that is for a reason. It works, and works well.
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3 years as a pc technician wooo. With that comes building systems of every type and benchmarking them.. (had to do something on those boring days) Currently i\'m working in a electronics company.
But what qualifications i have doesn\'t matter, I get my facts from people that do have qualifications.. But personally, i think experience is better then anything. Hell, u need it just to get qualifications on paper.
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If you can post whitepapers I would be very interested. I tend not to take forum opinions as gospel.
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If it makes u happy, i\'ll get my bro to post his thoughts on dual cpus and he has his, A+, Cisco Pro Net, MCSE and Computer Science Degree. If it makes you happy to hear the same thing from someone who has the papers . ;)
Use google man, get the info from people that have the certificates. If its what u need.
I don\'t need a certificate to do anything with pcs. mm has plenty of certificates and even he said LIC would be wasting cash.
Only certificate i\'m interested in atm is my Advanced Diaploma in Electronics.
You wanna know a little secret. Most of those pc sites have technicians that don\'t have any qualifications.. That doesn\'t mean they don\'t know what they\'re talking about. It simply means that didn\'t do schooling to learn what they know.
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SOUL I was not after someone with certs. Sounds like your bro and I are about even. I may even have him beat a bit in the cert dept. :) I was asking for a simple whitepaper.
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Only thing u could do is use google and search.
For Opteron here (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8826_8834~78784,00.html)
Amd General 64bit here (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8826_8834~69870,00.html)
sorry, miss understood what you were asking.
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Edit: I only ask because in my experience some older poorly written apps will have some issues with multi-procs. Then again they tend to max out a single. Your OS is going to use both procs assuming the right hal is loaded. That will in turn give you a marginal increase in speed on games or apps that can use only one proc. If by some chance a game or app uses both processors. Say ID games. Then you will see quite a boost. Not to mention any app that can take advantage of it. Overall it is a mute point. I myself will not run anything other than multi, and that is for a reason. It works, and works well.
Most programs aren\'t optimised for dual processor.
Dual processors waste time in looking at each other\'s cache for information instead of going to the main ram. This is a good reason why a program written for a single CPU will actually run slower on a dual CPU system.
Servers and a Graphic editing software atm are the main things that take advantage of dual cpus.
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http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20020211/dualathlon-10.html
Better in some ways. Worse in others. A worthy read, and it may change my mind on some issues.
Edit: Though most apps do not take advantage of it. Others do. I personally still prefer the dual and lots of ram. "In fact, anyone who regularly runs several applications in Windows 2000 or XP at the same time may also benefit from two processors." Which is what I typically do, and perhaps why it works for me.
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As you can see, gaming gets less but graphic animation and rendering improves. As i said, if you\'re planning on buying a dual cpu system in hopes of better gaming. You\'re a clueless moron ;)
If its for graphics etc.. then more power to you. :D
What we need to find is a scpu vs dcpu in more gaming results. That would change most gamers minds on whats better for gaming.
This is what i hear in the Single vs Dual cpu debate.
Dual processors are like dump tracks. Slower but can take more.
Single processors are like ferrari, fast but can\'t take the load.
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I would not go so far s moron. It depends on the coding. With the advent of hyper-threading. Has anyone heard talk of more optimization, or since it is xeon only I think. Will it have zero effect for a bit?
EDIT: Long day. I will pick up this conversation when I have more sleep.
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I asked about opinions on the DVD-R and so on. For cryin\' out loud, I did not ask about 20 posts worth of why you think I\'m wasting money.
I also mentioned that this computer was going to be used for video editing - which even in Tom\'s Hardware article, they mention the fact that plenty of video editing programs take advantage of dual CPU\'s to the max. Now take in account that ID software is known for taking advantage of DUAL CPU\'S (Quake III,hello? - and I am building this for one reason *of many* to play DOOM 3) and you will come close to getting the point.
MP3 Encoding? Dual boards , using MP3 Maker also won that.
The chart clearly demonstrates that both boards have a speed advantage of just less than 13% in dual mode.
Video Encoding?
The encoding of MPEG 4 videos runs exactly 80% faster with two processors - the systems reach a maximum frame rate of 54 frames per second.
But then again, I guess Souly knows more than the writers at Tom\'s Hardware.
And while the article does say that for the price DUAL boards are not quite worth it and they are a niche\' - they do have their advantages and disadvantages. It depends on what you are doing with them....So - let\'s see here.
Video Editing? Check!
MP3 Encoding? Check!
DOOM 3? Check!
Another post from a different article.
On the other hand, a second CPU ensures that sufficient performance reserves remain when running office applications under Windows 2000, particularly when several applications are running at the same time.
This also applies to XP PRO.
Read the friggin\' article.
Nowhere did I say DUAL was the be all end all setup, but it does have its advantages and it has its disadvantages. Instead, you chimed in and have taken a thread completely off-topic.
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For starters, read their summary. what part of graphic rendering improves etc didn\'t u understand. Games not encoded for dual cpus will suffer, as you saw in Q3A benchmark results.
If u didn\'t notice, that review is based mainly on multimedia and rendering apps. It isn\'t a gaming comparing review. As i said, Dual cpus are good for running MANY apps at the same time, its a dump truck. But single is better for gaming. Its a ferrari.
If you\'re under the impression that because Doom3 will take advantage of dual cpu systems, every other game will. Then your sadly mistaken. I really hope your not buying a dual cpu system for a very few games.
If you\'re buying it mainly for rendering, multimedia etc. Then go for it. If its for gaming, then well.. You know my opinion. :)
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wow 80% increase for DV encoding. I think I may have to go dual CPU my next system!
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do not buy a dvd-r drive right now, dual layered drives are right around the corner.
Sorry, you\'re a clueless moron
no comment
dual CPU\'s are a waste unless your using an app that takes advantage of them, like high end graphics or multimedia encoding
like we said all along, its your money. buy whatever the hell you want. it\'s all gonna be obsolete in a week anyways
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lol. He quoted it out of context dammit (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dgameman.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fsmilies2%2F11.gif&hash=b0e9d8653effce22d6168a85084d2cbbc3e3ef37)(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dgameman.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fbanghead.gif&hash=fa28fab7686d0f9cbf6c8ef35b0c9bb7748d48c2) :D
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Originally posted by mm
do not buy a dvd-r drive right now, dual layered drives are right around the corner.
no comment
dual CPU\'s are a waste unless your using an app that takes advantage of them, like high end graphics or multimedia encoding
like we said all along, its your money. buy whatever the hell you want. it\'s all gonna be obsolete in a week anyways
I\'m glad someone gets the point. And you have a good point on the dual layer burners. Do we have a firm date and possible price on those yet? And as for the comment about it all being out-dated in a week - nothing truer has been said.
And Soul - where in my post did I say I expected every game to take advantage? I don\'t. I just know that ID has been one to take advantage of DUAL CPU\'s, have openly said they will take advantage of 64bit CPU\'s and DUAL CPU\'s. They are always one to push the hardware to a limit.
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All i\'m saying is its a waste of cash to build a gaming rig with dual processors.
But if you will be using it for Multimedia and rendering just as much as for gaming it\'s not a waste. Nothing more. nothing less. :)
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I think LIC was pretty clear right off the bat that this sytem was for video editing and gaming.
So dual CPU isn\'t going to hurt.
When editing = better.
Supported games = better.
Unsupported games = same as single or slightly worse.
Gee, it\'s like a no brainer to me. Especially as more and more modern games have at least rudimentary support for multiple CPUs.
You can\'t ask everyone to go out there and aim for the "perfect balance" of money and speed. Not everyone does that... if they did, nobody would buy top of the line, ever, it\'s just too damn expensive. But there are those of us who are willing to pay that little bit extra and get top of the line. We\'ve got the money, we\'ve got the desire, and there is no right and wrong when you look at opinions.
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Slightly is a understatement, 20fps in q3a is more then slightly. Some games will take quite a hit. Remember, only software that will take advantage from dual processors are ones encoded for it.
Don\'t go thinking all multimedia and rendering software will. Because if it doesn\'t support dual processors, you won\'t get improvements. You have to have the programs that use the dual cpus. Its really that simple. Other wise you\'ve got a nice paper weight.
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Doesn\'t the almighty Sony use dual proc\'s in the ps2?
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nope. It has a EE (cpu) GS (gpu) and the spu.
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i thought i read dual layered dvd-r\'s are being shown at Cebit
june is the last timespawn i read also for release
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Originally posted by mm
i thought i read dual layered dvd-r\'s are being shown at Cebit
june is the last timespawn i read also for release
Not so far. It\'ll be interesting to see what the price tag is on \'em.
After alittle researching at work, here\'s some news.
http://www20.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040317_160409.html