PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: ooseven on April 21, 2004, 12:17:21 AM
-
Attacks her neighbours, HAS WMD & destabilizes the local region.
-----------------------------
WARNING ! Devils advocate mode (thread used to promote discussion and is NOT ANTI-SEMITIC) [/size][/color]
- Attacks her neighbours
- HAS WMD
- Destabilizes the local region & indeed the whole world.
- In breach of a large number of United Nation resolutions
So… Why didn’t we Attack or even punish Israel ?
I mean we invaded Iraq for less.
Discuss
-----------------------------
-
You are mixing apples and oranges. Israel is attacked by terrorist who are sponsored by Arab countries on a daily basis.
How does Israel destabilize the region? The Arabs are the ones who have vowed to destroy Israel - not the other way around.
As far as the land goes - It is the Arabs own fault, they attack Israel with superior numbers and get their asses handed to them not once, but twice! Israel deserves to keep the land IMO.
-
or even punish Israel
Veto
-
Who did Israel attack?
-
I don\'t see why Israel and Palestine can\'t share the land. I guess its human instincts of territory. They feel it is theirs and will fight for it.
-
Its not the territory itself, its the religious significance that surrounds it. Because Israel is a really lousy strip of land.
-
The United States is a mostly Christian Country, and as you may know Jesus was a Jew, and in the Bible God promised some of the land that belongs to the Palestinians now to Israel.
Israel and much of Christendom in the U.S. say \'Israel must be in the right place when the end comes
So in the view of mostly Christian America , punishing Israel for it\'s illegal occupation of Palestinian land would be to go against God\'s will (Israel must be doing right in anything they do since they are God\'s people is the mindset)
Another double standard would be the long held view that states "We don\'t negotiate with terrorists."
Now, most generals of America have called the fighters in Fallujah terrorists, yet they are currently are negotiating with them ,
-
They are negotiating with the city officials... is your reading comprehension that low? Also thanks for the 3rd grade Sunday school lesson...
I guess its worse to believe the Jews are God\'s Chosen people than to believe you will get 20 virgins in Paradise if you strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent children...
Anyway it is true that Judaism and Christianity have more in common with each other than Islam. Islam is the youngest religion and I believe we are in the middle of a cultural war - civilized society vs. radical Islam. I believe our closeness with Israel is due to the fact they are one of the few if not the only stable democracy in the region.
Lastly, the "illegal" occupation as you call it is the Arabs own doing. That is what they get for trying to destroy Israel twice and failing... badly.
-
God\'s on Israel\'s side. :)
-
Because most American\'s have no idea about the bad stuff we and our allies do. Americans overall are blind to other countries actions.
Sad but true.
-
I find it very upsetting that we can\'t have a normal disscusion on Israel without the potential for someone to jump up and shout ....
"Your being ANTI-SEMITIC!" if you say anything against Israel.
Anyway i still find it strange that this one country can get away with soo much without any come back from the international community.
like doing missile attacks on a Refugee Camps (one prime example).
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I guess its worse to believe the Jews are God\'s Chosen people than to believe you will get 20 virgins in Paradise if you strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent children...
um where did u get that 20 virgins info from?????...:stick: (first time i hear of it)
as for the whole Israel issue and why it gets away with everything, well its really simple and as fasty put it ..its the US veto.
Lastly, the "illegal" occupation as you call it is the Arabs own doing. That is what they get for trying to destroy Israel twice and failing... badly.
how is it the Arabs doing that Isreal continues the illegal occupation of palestinean terretories?.
-
Originally posted by Tyrant
how is it the Arabs doing that Isreal continues the illegal occupation of palestinean terretories?.
Is it not true that according to Islam (or some sect) you are promised a place in paradise with (insert number here) virgins if you die a martyr?
Lets start with a history lesson:
Since the UN\'s name is being tossed around a lot in this thread lets start there - The UN approved the partition of Palestine to form a Jewish state of Israel. The Arabs didn\'t approve of this.
The first Arab Israeli War started in 1948 when the armies of Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Syria, Lebanon and Iraq joined Palestinian and other Arab guerillas in attacking Israel. Israel ended up defeating all six nations and the UN brokered 4 seperate Peace Treaties. There were several other wars throughout the sixties and seventies - the Yom Kippur War for example, where Egypt and Syria attacked Israel on it\'s holiest day. Granted the US supported Israel with aid, but most Arabs and anti Israeli\'s tend forget that the USSR supported the Arab states in this conflict with aid as well.
If you look at any map of Israel and Palestine prior to this attack you will Palestine had much more territory than Israel - illegal occupation? :laughing: I don\'t think so... The Arabs tried to "illegally" destroy Israel\'s right to exist and lost. To this day only Egypt and Jordan agree with Israel\'s right to exist so I don\'t blame them for not giving back the West Bank. Egypt used diplomacy and peace to get back the Sinai Penninsula from Israel by recognizing its right to exist. Is it Israel\'s fault if Syria and the Palestinians refuse to do the same?
I agree with Bush\'s support of Israel not giving back any of the territory it won in a war it did not start. The PALS don\'t want peace and in the same process don\'t really want a country for themselves. Even fellow Arabs look down on PALS. It is the Arabs doing by not recognizing Israel\'s right to exist and vowing the destruction of Israel. I used to feel sorry for the PALS, but not anymore - they don\'t want peace - that is evident by their constant attacks on Israeli civilians. They are also barbaric in sending naive innocent children to military checkpoints packing bombs. Truly disgusting. :mad:
-
Originally posted by ViVi
Because most American\'s have no idea about the bad stuff we and our allies do. Americans overall are blind to other countries actions.
Sad but true.
What is sad is people like you turn a blind eye to really horrible things enemies of the US do to their own people as well as our allies (ie. children being used as suicide bombers).
-
thats nice some one who actually knows the history of it all.. but to correct you in the first war it wasnt israel alone that defeated the all those countries it was with the help of britain and france i think...
as for the other wars well not much can be said really....
and regarding the last point well i somewhat agree with u but saying that the palestineans dont want peace is absurd, not everyone (palestinean, israeli or otherwise) wants to see a loved one or commrade get hurt (or killed), just coz their are some groups (on both sides mind you) that have no other reason to exsist but to keep the war going and create more carnage doesnt mean that all the other people dont want peace.
as for the pals attacking isreali civillians well in that same context the isreali\'s are not justified in killing palestinean civillians, i could care less if they attack members of the militia\'s but putting a .50cal bullet thru the head of a 14 year old palestinean throwing a stone aint justified.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Is it not true that according to Islam (or some sect) you are promised a place in paradise with (insert number here) virgins if you die a martyr?
Lets start with a history lesson:
Since the UN\'s name is being tossed around a lot in this thread lets start there - The UN approved the partition of Palestine to form a Jewish state of Israel. The Arabs didn\'t approve of this.
The first Arab Israeli War started in 1948 when the armies of Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Syria, Lebanon and Iraq joined Palestinian and other Arab guerillas in attacking Israel. Israel ended up defeating all six nations and the UN brokered 4 seperate Peace Treaties. There were several other wars throughout the sixties and seventies - the Yom Kippur War for example, where Egypt and Syria attacked Israel on it\'s holiest day. Granted the US supported Israel with aid, but most Arabs and anti Israeli\'s tend forget that the USSR supported the Arab states in this conflict with aid as well.
If you look at any map of Israel and Palestine prior to this attack you will Palestine had much more territory than Israel - illegal occupation? :laughing: I don\'t think so... The Arabs tried to "illegally" destroy Israel\'s right to exist and lost. To this day only Egypt and Jordan agree with Israel\'s right to exist so I don\'t blame them for not giving back the West Bank. Egypt used diplomacy and peace to get back the Sinai Penninsula from Israel by recognizing its right to exist. Is it Israel\'s fault if Syria and the Palestinians refuse to do the same?
I agree with Bush\'s support of Israel not giving back any of the territory it won in a war it did not start. The PALS don\'t want peace and in the same process don\'t really want a country for themselves. Even fellow Arabs look down on PALS. It is the Arabs doing by not recognizing Israel\'s right to exist and vowing the destruction of Israel. I used to feel sorry for the PALS, but not anymore - they don\'t want peace - that is evident by their constant attacks on Israeli civilians. They are also barbaric in sending naive innocent children to military checkpoints packing bombs. Truly disgusting. :mad:
i basicly agree with most of your post as i have always wondered the history of the israeli & palestinian war...but i agree 100% on what you stated in your last paragraph...the palestinians send young children to do their suicide attacks, i know israel isn\'t innocent at all in this charade,..but there isn\'t that much pain & suffering in the world to be doin\' s**t like that! And a few times i have seen some interviews with some of the palestinian officials & the tone i got from them was that they want israel gone completly.
i don\'t see why they just can\'t share the land..they\'re so intertwined with each other on a daily basis..i fail to see why it can\'t happen. that section of the world will always know violence..
-
Originally posted by Tyrant
thats nice some one who actually knows the history of it all.. but to correct you in the first war it wasnt israel alone that defeated the all those countries it was with the help of britain and france i think...
as for the other wars well not much can be said really....
and regarding the last point well i somewhat agree with u but saying that the palestineans dont want peace is absurd, not everyone (palestinean, israeli or otherwise) wants to see a loved one or commrade get hurt (or killed), just coz their are some groups (on both sides mind you) that have no other reason to exsist but to keep the war going and create more carnage doesnt mean that all the other people dont want peace.
as for the pals attacking isreali civillians well in that same context the isreali\'s are not justified in killing palestinean civillians, i could care less if they attack members of the militia\'s but putting a .50cal bullet thru the head of a 14 year old palestinean throwing a stone aint justified.
As for war you are talking about... During the 1950s there was considerable tension between Israel and Egypt, which, under President Nasser, had become a leader in the Arab world. His nationalization of the Suez Canal 1956 provided an opportunity for Israel with Britain and France, to attack Egypt and occupy a part of Palestine that Egypt had controlled since 1949, the Gaza Strip , from which Israel was forced by UN and US pressure to withdraw 1957.
This wasn\'t an Arab Israeli War in terms of the other wars that were fought. This Suez conflict was precisely that - all about the Suez Canal. Britain and France didn\'t like fact that Egypt nationalized that canal. Funny how the Arab world forgets that it was UN and US pressure that made Israel was forced to withdraw the first time.
The PAL leadership is ineffective and no peace will ever come about as long as Yassir Arafat is at the helm. He privately condones the terror attacks that he believes will achieve his goal. One would think after 15 years of not achieving it, one would try a different approach. The PALS for the most part bring the violence upon themselves. Why would any fool throw rocks at tanks? IMO Israel has had enough of the PAL BS and is taking a more drastic approach. As sad as it is, if the PAL\'s stopped with their attacks they would have all the sympathy in the world for their plight.
-
Originally posted by clips
i don\'t see why they just can\'t share the land..they\'re so intertwined with each other on a daily basis..i fail to see why it can\'t happen. that section of the world will always know violence..
That is the irony of the whole situation - look at this map of Israel in 1948 - the blue area is Israel and the other area is Palestine. Notice how much land the PAL\'s have? The arrows show the Arab attack. They had their country and threw it away.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I believe our closeness with Israel is due to the fact they are one of the few if not the only stable democracy in the region.
I think that is a "chicken or the egg" type situation. Are they the most stable democracy BECAUSE of our support or do we support them because they are a stable democracy. It really can be argued either way.
-
Originally posted by Black Samurai
I think that is a "chicken or the egg" type situation. Are they the most stable democracy BECAUSE of our support or do we support them because they are a stable democracy. It really can be argued either way.
:stick: ehhh what is your point? They are a stable democracy - who cares if it is because of our support. Not trying to be an ass Black Sam, but that post is ummm... have you been lighting up today? I think this is a prime example of brain cell loss. :D
-
You said that the reason that we are close to Israel is because they are a stable democracy. I am saying that your statement is arguable. They may be a stable democracy BECAUSE of our support. If we had NO connection with Israel would they be as "stable" as they are now? I really don\'t think so.
[EDIT] Basically, I think there may be other reasons why we are so close to Israel. Not necessarily religious.
Lesser of two evils? (Not that Israel is evil.)
-
Originally posted by Black Samurai
You said that the reason that we are close to Israel is because they are a stable democracy. I am saying that your statement is arguable. They may be a stable democracy BECAUSE of our support. If we had NO connection with Israel would they be as "stable" as they are now? I really don\'t think so.
[EDIT] Basically, I think there may be other reasons why we are so close to Israel. Not necessarily religious.
Lesser of two evils? (Not that Israel is evil.)
I never argued that without our help they wouldn\'t be a stable democracy. They get loans from the US Govt, but they also get money Jews living in the US. I don\'t think it matters "why" they are stable as much as that they are. Would anyone like to see a hostile PAL state in its place? I sure as hell wouldn\'t.
-
Anyone gonna answer my question?
-
They can\'t, but I can!
-
Please do...
-
Technically Israel did attack Egypt during the Suez Campaign in 1956, but that was mostly due to the fact that Britain and France were beating up on Egypt to begin with.
However the most notible was the 6 Days War in 1967 when Israel attacked Egypt, Jordan and Syria simultaneously. The key to that victory was Israel wiped out their airforces on the ground. On the opposite side of the spectrum one could view this as a preemptive strike since the Arabs had massed troops on Israel\'s borders.
The wheelchair bound terrorist that caught a missle doesn\'t count.
-
Thanks for the history lesson, Giga...
Well, if you\'re talking double standards...
The world is quick to condemn Israel for targetting and killing terrorists but is sympathetic to Palestinians who target and kill civilians...
-
Hey I support Israel - I was just answering your question.
-
This thread got PWN3D by Giga.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Hey I support Israel - I was just answering your question.
I was thanking you for the info but my next point was directed towards the double standard discussion and not you...
;)
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
They are negotiating with the city officials... is your reading comprehension that low? Also thanks for the 3rd grade Sunday school lesson...
Roads run rough and wet, pick your path.
A. City Officials
B. Interm Government
-
Israel gets away with everything becuase 99 percent of the polititians in the USA are corrupt fagz. Jewish lobby + Special interest groups own congress.
What other explanation is there? That jews are "Gods chosen" people? yeah.. right.
I\'m tired of Jewz throwing their stupid "everyone is anti-semetic" BS every time someone questions Israel or a jewish led political incentive.
-
When you get a clue - come back and debate. You my friend are an anti semite. How have I come to this conclusion?
You have brought up Israel in almost every thread that you have "revived" regardless if it has anything to do with them or not.
You can\'t debate, because you have no facts to back up your accusations. All you can do is ramble on how Bush and the Jews are to blame for everything that is wrong with the world. :rolleyes:
If the Jews own Congress - how is it we condemn them for political assasinations of Hamas leaders and are pleading with Sharon for him not have Arafat whacked?
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
When you get a clue - come back and debate. You my friend are an anti semite. How have I come to this conclusion?
You have brought up Israel in almost every thread that you have "revived" regardless if it has anything to do with them or not.
You can\'t debate, because you have no facts to back up your accusations. All you can do is ramble on how Bush and the Jews are to blame for everything that is wrong with the world. :rolleyes:
If the Jews own Congress - how is it we condemn them for political assasinations of Hamas leaders and are pleading with Sharon for him not have Arafat whacked?
Do you believe any of that drivel that comes out of the white house as condemnation? wake up. It is you who should get educated. The USA has been deep inside the Jewish pockets for as long as you have been alive fool.
Don\'t roll your eyes at me you bitch, people like you give this country a bad name.
Why do you label me with a stupid "Anti-Semite" slogan? I express my views, so stop with your politically correct BS.
I got my views, and i will express them, and I didn\'t say I blame Jews for what is wrong with the world. So stop with you articulate interpretation of what I’m saying. you are reaching baby, give it a rest.
You know what is wrong with this country? People like you, and anyone saying a movie like the “Passion of Christ” is anti-Semitic, and too bloody. These are the same people allowing their kids to view Starship troopers with its gore and blood.
By the way, Merry Christmas, not Merry Holidays.
-
Originally posted by Toxical
Do you believe any of that drivel that comes out of the white house as condemnation? wake up. It is you who should get educated. The USA has been deep inside the Jewish pockets for as long as you have been alive fool.
Don\'t roll your eyes at me you bitch, people like you give this country a bad name.
Why do you label me with a stupid "Anti-Semite" slogan? I express my views, so stop with your politically correct BS.
I got my views, and i will express them, and I didn\'t say I blame Jews for what is wrong with the world. So stop with you articulate interpretation of what I’m saying. you are reaching baby, give it a rest.
You know what is wrong with this country? People like you, and anyone saying a movie like the “Passion of Christ” is anti-Semitic, and too bloody. These are the same people allowing their kids to view Starship troopers with its gore and blood.
By the way, Merry Christmas, not Merry Holidays.
i agree with him to a point. after 911 the white probably secretly approves of what israel is doing but have to save face by sayin\' they condemn it..everything else toxic you\'re takin potshots at giga.. name calling is cool i guess if meant jokingly..it\'s not called for if it\'s intended as an offensive implication...
-
Yo clips,
that Giga guy was nitpicking over my grammar. only fair to ruffle his all-mighty feathers.
I got not problem with people, they can\'t debate so they make fun of me, so i have to defend my "constitutional rights to express myself" ;)
-
Originally posted by Toxical
Yo clips,
that Giga guy was nitpicking over my grammar. only fair to ruffle his all-mighty feathers.
I got not problem with people, they can\'t debate so they make fun of me, so i have to defend my "constitutional rights to express myself" ;)
:rolleyes: silly little boy
Politically correct? Me? Surely you jest! :laughing:
You really don\'t know what you are talking about. Anyone in the forum will testify I am the least PC person here.
It is spineless liberals like you who weaken this country and will instigate more attacks like 9/11. After sifting through your profanity laced post I see you still haven\'t made one valid point.
Since we are talking about Israel and the PAL\'s - it is pretty easy to determine who are friends and enemies of the US.
Israel = Friend
Hamas = Enemy
PLO = Enemy
As far as saying I can\'t debate :rolleyes:
-
USA + Israel = Fascist Regimes, corrupt and one-sided.
Go patriot Act. Who needs rights in this country.
By the way how am i spineless? Explain? Surely not as spineless as the President or his VP "Dick"
My Dad was in Vietnam, too bad rich pieces of crap like Jr.Bush could weasel themselves out of it.
-
By the way GigaWad, i didn\'t make fun of you first, you made fun of me first, so I guess it is you who can’t debate after all. If you can’t beat him, stoop low and discredit and make fun of him , hmmmm I see a lot of Bush in you Son. ;)
I guess when you have nothing "smart" to say you can only find humor and mask your ignorance.
-
You discredited yourself with your idiotic statements and reopening long dead threads on old news. All of your statements are rude and insulting... not that I mind, but those that usually debate here have some class and intelligence - neither of which you have.
When you can bring up some facts and refrain from insulting others you might get some respect - though I doubt it.
-
Originally posted by Toxical
USA + Israel = Fascist Regimes, corrupt and one-sided.
Go patriot Act. Who needs rights in this country.
By the way how am i spineless? Explain? Surely not as spineless as the President or his VP "Dick"
My Dad was in Vietnam, too bad rich pieces of crap like Jr.Bush could weasel themselves out of it.
:laughing:
Name one thing the Patriot Act has done to inhibit your freedoms. Do you even know what the Patriot Act does?
That is great that your "Daddy" was in the military - I am retired military and my father also served in Vietnam - and he never whined about it as I suspect your father did by the bitterness in your post.
At least Bush served - though very limited. Clinton attended War Protests in Britain.
-
GigaWad, did i insult you? how? show me?
Who did I insult? what the hell are you talking about?
It is you, who can\'t argue your point, and so result in attacking me with your stupid "smart-ass" comments.
I know it is easier to point a finger and laugh then it is to defend your position … admit it, you are just kid who can’t compete in the real world … like Trump says, “you’re Fired !”
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
:laughing:
Name one thing the Patriot Act has done to inhibit your freedoms. Do you even know what the Patriot Act does?
That is great that your "Daddy" was in the military - I am retired military and my father also served in Vietnam - and he never whined about it as I suspect your father did by the bitterness in your post.
At least Bush served - though very limited. Clinton attended War Protests in Britain.
Where did Bush serve? Tell me?
in the jungle with foot rot gnawing at his toes? or on some ranch drinking lemonade?
It is disgusting that you would even bring up Bush’s war effort into this conversation
-
Bush served in the National Guard - Where did Clinton serve?
What is disgusting you would even bring this topic up considering Kerry betrayed other soldiers in Vietnam with his rabid anti war stance when he returned home. The only reason he decided to protest the war was because it was popular and for his future political career that was being groomed by the most corrupt family in US political history: The Kennedy\'s.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
:laughing:
Name one thing the Patriot Act has done to inhibit your freedoms. Do you even know what the Patriot Act does?
You are either stupid or blind you pick:
Patriot Act (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/20031213-3.html)
There are a lot of things about the Patriot Act that are un-American, but you wouldn\'t know about it, since you are brainwashed GigaWad:
Section 213 of the Patriot Act
which authorizes property to be searched and seized in secret by government law enforcement officials, without notifying the subject of a warrant.
Section 214 / 216, relating to the use of pen registers for foreign intelligence purposes and criminal cases. Pen registers record all phone numbers dialed from a person\'s telephone.
Section 215, which authorized searches of library, bookstore, medical, financial, religious and travel records without a judicial warrant.
Section 218. This section of the Patriot Act, in essence, gutted the Fourth Amendment\'s requirement for probable cause to obtain a search warrant in criminal investigations.
Sections 411 / 412 of the Patriot Act, which granted new grounds for the deportation and/or the mandatory detention of aliens.
Section 505 of the Patriot Act which authorized FBI field agents to issue national security letters to obtain financial, bank and credit records of individuals - all without a court order or judicial oversight.
Sections 507 and 508 of the Patriot Act relating to the seizure of educational records and the disclosure of individually identifiable information under the National Education Statistics Act of 1994.
Section 802 , which defined the new crime of "domestic terrorism." The definition is so broad that political protests that unaccountably become violent could be classified as domestic terrorism.
Homeland Security Act of 2002, the Department of Justice and the Department of Homeland Security are no longer exempt from Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests.
Roll back policing powers that the federal government took upon itself since Sept. 11 without congressional authorization.
For example, the federal government would no longer be able to monitor conversations between attorneys and their clients, violating the fundamental right of attorney-client privilege.
Attorney General John Ashcroft\'s memorandum to all agencies of the federal government narrowing the scope of FOIA and the ability of citizens to obtain information about how their government is working.
The Patriot Act of 2001, a 342-page document, was passed without meaningful review. Many members of Congress hadn\'t read the bill; some still haven\'t.
-
Nice cut and paste :rolleyes:
You didn\'t answer my question - How has the Patriot Act effected your freedoms?
It hasn\'t.
:yawn:
You are so misguided if you think the politics of the US provokes terror attacks on us. Why don\'t you admit that Islamic fundamentalists hate the US for our freedoms that you hold so dearly. Do you think a "goat herder terrorist" as you call them has any political beliefs? They are religious fanatics and no political decisions are going to make them stop attack western society.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Bush served in the National Guard - Where did Clinton serve?
What is disgusting you would even bring this topic up considering Kerry betrayed other soldiers in Vietnam with his rabid anti war stance when he returned home. The only reason he decided to protest the war was because it was popular and for his future political career that was being groomed by the most corrupt family in US political history: The Kennedy\'s.
Yeah what ever, the Vietnam war wasn\'t even justified, it is people like that asshole Kissinger and Nixon that got this country even worse into the war...... and got their fingers involved in other stupid affairs that should result in Mr. Kissinger’s imprisonment.
-
Originally posted by Toxical
Yeah what ever, the Vietnam war wasn\'t even justified, it is people like that asshole Kissinger and Nixon that got this country even worse into the war...... and got their fingers involved in other stupid affairs that should result in Mr. Kissinger’s imprisonment.
:laughing:
You know nothing about history.
John F. Kennedy got us involved in Vietnam.
Richard Nixon was trying to pull us out of Vietnam.
Look at the US troop strength in Vietnam in 1968 under LBJ (a Democrat) and Nixon in 1969...
1968
November - President Richard M.Nixon elected; he promises a gradual troop withdrawal
from Vietnam.
December 31st - American military strength in South Vietnam is 536,100
Here is an example of Nixon reducing our troops in Vietnam in 1969 alone:
January 25th - Formal truce negotiations begin in Paris.
February 23rd-24th - Communist forces carry out rocket and mortar attacks against 115
bases, towns, and cities in South Vietnam.
June 5th - American planes make the first raids against North Vietnam since the
bombing halt of 1 November 1968, in retaliation for the shooting down of a
reconnaissance aircraft.
June 8th - While meeting at Midway Island with President Thieu, President Nixon
announces the planned withdrawal of 25,000 American combat troops.
September 4th - Radio Hanoi announces the death of Ho Chi Minh.
September 16th - President Nixon reveals a plan to withdraw an additional 35,000 men.
September 30th - The US and Thai governments announce a planned withdrawal of
6,000 Americans, mostly airmen from Thailand.
October 8th - Souvanna Phouma requests increased American aid to meet heavier
Communist pressure in Laos.
November 15th - "Moratorium": massive anti-war demonstration in USA.
December 15th - President Nixon announces that an additional 50,000 Americans will
be withdrawn from South Vietnam by 15 April 1970.
December 18th - Congress prohibits the use of current Department of Defense
appropriations to introduce ground combat troops into Laos or Thailand.
December 21st - Thailand announces plans to withdraw its 12,000-man contingent from
South Vietnam. South Korea will maintain its 50,000-man force. The Filipino
non-combatants have already departed.
December 31st - US troop strength in South Vietnam is 474,000.
1968
December 31st - American military strength in South Vietnam is 536,100
1969
December 31st - US troop strength in South Vietnam is 474,000.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
:laughing:
You know nothing about history.
John F. Kennedy got us involved in Vietnam.
Richard Nixon was trying to pull us out of Vietnam.
Look at the US troop strength in Vietnam in 1968 under LBJ (a Democrat) and Nixon in 1969...
1968
November - President Richard M.Nixon elected; he promises a gradual troop withdrawal
from Vietnam.
December 31st - American military strength in South Vietnam is 536,100
Here is an example of Nixon reducing our troops in Vietnam in 1969 alone:
January 25th - Formal truce negotiations begin in Paris.
February 23rd-24th - Communist forces carry out rocket and mortar attacks against 115
bases, towns, and cities in South Vietnam.
June 5th - American planes make the first raids against North Vietnam since the
bombing halt of 1 November 1968, in retaliation for the shooting down of a
reconnaissance aircraft.
June 8th - While meeting at Midway Island with President Thieu, President Nixon
announces the planned withdrawal of 25,000 American combat troops.
September 4th - Radio Hanoi announces the death of Ho Chi Minh.
September 16th - President Nixon reveals a plan to withdraw an additional 35,000 men.
September 30th - The US and Thai governments announce a planned withdrawal of
6,000 Americans, mostly airmen from Thailand.
October 8th - Souvanna Phouma requests increased American aid to meet heavier
Communist pressure in Laos.
November 15th - "Moratorium": massive anti-war demonstration in USA.
December 15th - President Nixon announces that an additional 50,000 Americans will
be withdrawn from South Vietnam by 15 April 1970.
December 18th - Congress prohibits the use of current Department of Defense
appropriations to introduce ground combat troops into Laos or Thailand.
December 21st - Thailand announces plans to withdraw its 12,000-man contingent from
South Vietnam. South Korea will maintain its 50,000-man force. The Filipino
non-combatants have already departed.
December 31st - US troop strength in South Vietnam is 474,000.
1968
December 31st - American military strength in South Vietnam is 536,100
1969
December 31st - US troop strength in South Vietnam is 474,000.
:laughing: ............ :rolleyes: god you are beyond words...
Wake up, and smell the coffee.
-
That is your response!?! You can\'t respond because you got OWNED with your idiotic statement about the Vietnam War...
You are living in a different reality than the rest of us. Nixon tried to end our involvement in the Vietnam War - there are the facts -
you can\'t accept them
-
Nixon dealt under the table with Vietnam, and you are blind.
-
No you are blind - the troop strength during his Presidency speaks for itself. You are a complete moron. Goodbye.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Nice cut and paste :rolleyes:
You didn\'t answer my question - How has the Patriot Act effected your freedoms?
It hasn\'t.
:yawn:
You are so misguided if you think the politics of the US provokes terror attacks on us. Why don\'t you admit that Islamic fundamentalists hate the US for our freedoms that you hold so dearly. Do you think a "goat herder terrorist" as you call them has any political beliefs? They are religious fanatics and no political decisions are going to make them stop attack western society.
Yeah, yawn all you like GigaWad, you cut-n-paste your stupid Vietnam crap ... :rolleyes:
I can\'t deal with dumb hypocrites who cut-n-paste their shit, and roll eyes at me...
If you served in Vietnam and are older than 40 you should belong in a Zoo, someone as ignorant and sublime to the fact, needs a long vacation.
-
Toxical=teh owned
Originally posted by Toxical
Yeah what ever, the Vietnam war wasn\'t even justified, it is people like that asshole Kissinger and Nixon that got this country even worse into the war...... and got their fingers involved in other stupid affairs that should result in Mr. Kissinger’s imprisonment.
I just have to refute this one. We got into the Vietnam "war" because of relations with the Soviet Union and the US. We were in a Cold War (which was much hot. Soviet pilots in Korea and giving MiGs and AK47 and AK74 assault rifles to Vietnam and other communist countries). They were expanding and so were we. It was a battle between democracy and communism. We got in the war to show the Soviet Union that we would not let them expand. If we didn\'t get in that war, who knows how many more countries would have actually fallen to communism.
-
I didn\'t get owned, GigaWad is just hysterical and can\'t debate so he is using misquoted statements as proof... how like a little bush you are GigaWad.
-
Originally posted by Toxical
I didn\'t get owned, GigaWad is just hysterical and can\'t debate so he is using misquoted statements as proof... how like a little bush you are GigaWad.
Dude, seriously you are getting owned. You come up with one idea and Giga shoots it down like a MiG in Korea.
-
Originally posted by Toxical
I didn\'t get owned, GigaWad is just hysterical and can\'t debate so he is using misquoted statements as proof... how like a little bush you are GigaWad.
Giga could debate circles around you, and any one who reads these threads would conclude the same thing.
-
Yes ok, what ever. Believe what you must,
-
Originally posted by Toxical
I can\'t deal with dumb hypocrites who cut-n-paste their shit, and roll eyes at me...
So I guess you cutting and pasting the Patriot Act stuff doesn\'t make you a dumb hypocrite?
-
Don\'t be so confrontational. If you have a point, debate the point, not the person.
-
Man, shockwaves is way too nice...
-
It\'d be a bit too hypocritical for my taste to flame someone for flaming someone else :p
-
I heard of the domino theory....they fear of the domino theory so that is one of the reasons why they want to stop the communism in Vietnam.
-
Originally posted by shockwaves
It\'d be a bit too hypocritical for my taste to flame someone for flaming someone else :p
I meant you weren\'t pulling out your mod powers...
-
I deleted about...20 of his posts, I PMed him telling him to stop, and I posted the same in a couple threads...as a mod, what else do you suggest I do?
-
Originally posted by Titan
So I guess you cutting and pasting the Patriot Act stuff doesn\'t make you a dumb hypocrite?
Actualy he said that about me, yet he cut-n-paste his crap too. so there ya go buddy.
-
Shockwaves > Ashford
-
Originally posted by Toxical
Actualy he said that about me, yet he cut-n-paste his crap too. so there ya go buddy.
From what I read, Giga does not cut and paste anything but news articles then makes a point about it.
-
Toxical, you have yet to answer my question as to how the Patriot Act has effected you.
You also have yet to retract your false information regarding the Nixon adminstration and Vietnam. Lyndon B Johnson did more to escalate the Vietnam War than any other President, yet because Nixon was a Republican you chose to blame him. Maybe you watch too many Oliver Stone movies...
-
Originally posted by Titan
From what I read, Giga does not cut and paste anything but news articles then makes a point about it.
I do the same ;) yet i was made fun of.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Toxical, you have yet to answer my question as to how the Patriot Act has effected you.
You also have yet to retract your false information regarding the Nixon adminstration and Vietnam. Lyndon B Johnson did more to escalate the Vietnam War than any other President, yet because Nixon was a Republican you chose to blame him. Maybe you watch too many Oliver Stone movies...
I gave you some examples on how the patriot act is Un-American, i haven\'t been stopped by the act itself yet, but given the Bush administrations intentions, give it 4 more years, and we will feel the big “patriot Act” I don’t doubt that.
Can you honestly with a straight face tell me that all those provisions in the act will save us from terrorist attacks? More likely they will just give the government powers over the constitution, the Patriot Act is just a constitution killer.
Should we be treated like prisoners in our own country? Presumed guilty until proven otherwise? Has Uncle Stalin been resurrected?
Will some of us go to Cuba for 2 years because we do not agree with our government? Will free speech go the way of the dinosaur? Will we be given access to a lawyer and given a fair trial before we are sent to Cuba?
Will our rights as American citizen disappear because Bush thinks it is in the countries best interests to have the Patriot Act?
I have no love for Nixon or his lapdog Kissinger.
Kissinger should be in jail………
-
Originally posted by Toxical
I gave you some examples on how the patriot act is Un-American, i haven\'t been stopped by the act itself yet, but given the Bush administrations intentions, give it 4 more years, and we will feel the big “patriot Act” I don’t doubt that.
Can you honestly with a straight face tell me that all those provisions in the act will save us from terrorist attacks? More likely they will just give the government powers over the constitution, the Patriot Act is just a constitution killer.
Should we be treated like prisoners in our own country? Presumed guilty until proven otherwise? Has Uncle Stalin been resurrected?
Will some of us go to Cuba for 2 years because we do not agree with our government? Will free speech go the way of the dinosaur? Will we be given access to a lawyer and given a fair trial before we are sent to Cuba?
Will our rights as American citizen disappear because Bush thinks it is in the countries best interests to have the Patriot Act?
I have no love for Nixon or his lapdog Kissinger.
Kissinger should be in jail………
If you aren\'t a terrorist you have nothing to worry about regarding the Patriot Act. I think doing something is better than doing nothing at all. Will it work? We will see, but doing nothing will almost certainly result in more attacks.
How do you feel you are a prisoner in this country due to the Patriot Act? This is more liberal rhetoric and it is the type of stuff that sounds really good at the communist backed anti war rallies, but in reality you are doing to the exact same things today that you were doing prior the Acts inception. Bush is Stalin, Bush is Hitler... very cliche... :rolleyes:
Gitmo is housing foreign enemy combatants, not US citizens who have been abducted from the streets in the US. Your analogy is wrong and exposes your rabid leftist ideals.
Our rights are not disappearing and apparently you fail to grasp that the real enemy of any free society is any government that is dominated by extreme theologians who believe that it is right to kill others in the name of Allah, God, etc.
As for Nixon and Kissinger - you have already proved you really don\'t know anything about them.
-
Originally posted by Toxical
I do the same ;) yet i was made fun of.
Your cut and paste was not followed by any relevant points. When you were asked whether the Patriot Act effected you - you dodged the question at first and then begrudgingly admitted that it hasn\'t effected your freedoms. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Your cut and paste was not followed by any relevant points. When you were asked whether the Patriot Act effected you - you dodged the question at first and then begrudgingly admitted that it hasn\'t effected your freedoms. :rolleyes:
You cut-n-paste your stuff, and it was fine, i cut-n-paste the best points, and I thought you could read so I didn\'t expand on it. I thought it was self-explanatory.
I do not begrudge anything, I do not answer certain questions that I think are not relevant to what my view/point is.
My point about the Patriot Act is that it is Un-American and will therefore potentially destroys our freedom as American Citizens, I didn’t write “The patriot act destroyed my personal freedom”
Stop rolling your eyes, you might go crosseyed.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Our rights are not disappearing and apparently you fail to grasp that the real enemy of any free society is any government that is dominated by extreme theologians who believe that it is right to kill others in the name of Allah, God, etc.
yeah ok, I can\'t believe you actually said that... :nut: Do you believe in what you said or is that your "Official" party line?
The real enemy is any government that deems it is necessary to encroach on our rights as citizens or which threatens us, this includes al-Qaeda and the US-Congress/White-house with their Patriot Act drivel.
See you forget, your replys are only your opinion, and thank god you do not make laws in this country ;)
-
My replies are a mixture of my opinion and fact. Instead of worrying about the US government and your left field conspiracy theories - you might want to worry about more credible dangers posed by religious exremists and home grown terrorists.
You have not and will not lose any freedoms due to the Patriot Act - unless of course you are committing a criminal act. Please post here when the FBI bursts through your home to do what you would deem as an "illegal" search. Again I ask, what rights of yours have been or will be encroached upon? You cry wolf about nothing IMO. If left up to the likes of you this country would have no security.
Lastly, I know your short term memory isn\'t the best, but I will say it again - I don\'t belong to any "party".
-
Oh that\'s right, your lobby in washington pays who ever is in power ..... my mistake.
-
I guess you could say I\'m republican only because it falls in more with my views. Whats a shame with this election is there is no moderate democrat or moderate republican (I\'m more moderate republican). Kerry is more left wing and Bush more right wing. Personally, I wouldn\'t vote for either but I think Kucinich is a tool and Kerry flip flops too much (not to mention too liberal) and we should finish what we started in Iraq, so I\'d go with Bush. Otherwise, I\'d vote more independent. But I turn 18 one month and two weeks after election day so I guess I don\'t have to worry about it.
-
I am conservative in almost everything except religion. That is the one thing that really turns me off about the Republicans - their moral majority crap. I do think our society is based up Christian morals, but that is where it should end regarding the government.
-
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I am conservative in almost everything except religion. That is the one thing that really turns me off about the Republicans - their moral majority crap. I do think our society is based up Christian morals, but that is where it should end regarding the government.
I have a couple liberal views though. Eliminating "Under God" from the pledge, don\'t care about "In God We Trust" on our money (but would be better to eliminate it), I\'m more for abortion and lean more toward gay marriage. They are citizens, if they want to get married, let them. Stats show that the divorce rate for gays is extremly high anyway so I say just let them be happy for some time. And I would like to see more races get into politics (not really a liberal view though). I also support stem cell research, which I believe is shunned by the republican party. Other than that, I\'m conservative :) So I\'m more moderate and probably will end up voting for an independent party.
-
Why do you have to eliminate it? Why? Please give me a logical explanation as to why it bothers you?
I\'m a republican however am anti-death penalty.
-
Originally posted by SwifDi
I\'m a republican however am anti-death penalty.
I\'m pro death penalty but I feel it should be HIGHLY reformed. Like they can chose not to die if they don\'t want to and mandatory death penalty is for the worst of the worst of murderers. The ones that brutally murder a lot of victims. But killing inmates off like in Texas? No.
-
i\'m for the death penalty..especially if the accused knew what he/she was doing. i hate that after the fact they want to plea insanity or even temporary insanity..what?!! let me temporarily put that ass in the cell with big bubba the initiator...lets see how long you last..
i\'m sorry but it\'s an eye for an eye you know what f**k you were doin\' before the act was commited. the only way i wouldn\'t support the death penalty would be if the cat was seriously mentally disturbed...