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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: mm on May 07, 2004, 07:42:02 PM
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http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=518901
Less than 24 hours after accusing the Walt Disney Company of pulling the plug on his latest documentary in a blatant attempt at political censorship, the rabble-rousing film-maker Michael Moore has admitted he knew a year ago that Disney had no intention of distributing it.
The admission, during an interview with CNN, undermined Moore\'s claim that Disney was trying to sabotage the US release of Fahrenheit 911 just days before its world premiere at the Cannes film festival.
Instead, it lent credence to a growing suspicion that Moore was manufacturing a controversy to help publicise the film, a full-bore attack on the Bush administration and its handling of national security since the attacks of 11 September 2001.
In an indignant letter to his supporters, Moore said he had learnt only on Monday that Disney had put the kibosh on distributing the film, which has been financed by the semi-independent Disney subsidiary Miramax.
But in the CNN interview he said: "Almost a year ago, after we\'d started making the film, the chairman of Disney, Michael Eisner, told my agent he was upset Miramax had made the film and he will not distribute it."
Nobody in Hollywood doubts Fahrenheit 911 will find a US distributor. His last documentary, Bowling for Columbine , made for $3m (£1.7m), pulled in $22m at the US box office.
But Moore\'s publicity stunt, if that is what is, appears to be working. A front-page news piece in The New York Times was followed yesterday by an editorial denouncing Disney for censorship and denial of Moore\'s right to free expression.
Moore told CNN that Disney had "signed a contract to distribute this [film]" but got cold feet. But Disney executives insists there was never any contract. And a source close to Miramax said that the only deal there was for financing, not for distribution.
what a whore
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Why did this need to be in a new thread?
No reason for me to speak for Michael Moore, so here is his most recent statement:
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php
Friday, May 7th, 2004
When You Wish Upon A Star... by Michael Moore
Dear Friends,
Thank you for all the incredible letters of support as my film crew and I once again slog our way through the corporate media madhouse. Does it ever end? Are we ever going to get control of our "free press" again? Can you wish upon a star?
The Disney spin machine has been working overtime dealing with this censorship debacle of theirs. I don\'t think they thought they would ever be outed. After all, they know that all of us are supposed to adhere to the unwritten Hollywood Code: Never tell the public how business is done here, never let them have a peek at the man behind the curtain.
Disney has been hoping for nearly a year that they could keep this thing quiet. As I promised on Wednesday, here are the details behind my sordid adventure with the Magic Kingdom:
In April of 2003, I signed a deal with Miramax, a division of the Walt Disney Co., to finance and distribute my next movie, Fahrenheit 9/11. (The original financier had backed out; I will tell that story at a later date.) In my contract it is stated that Miramax will distribute my film in the U.S. through Disney\'s distribution arm, Buena Vista Distribution. It also gives Miramax the rights to distribute and sell the movie around the world.
A month later, after shooting started, Michael Eisner insisted on meeting with my agent, Ari Emanuel. Eisner was furious that Miramax signed this deal with me. According to Mr. Emanuel, Eisner said he would never let my film be distributed through Disney even though Mr. Eisner had not seen any footage or even read the outline of the film. Eisner told my agent that he did not want to anger Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida. The movie, he believed, would complicate an already complicated situation with current and future Disney projects in Florida, and that many millions of dollars of tax breaks and incentives were at stake.
But Michael Eisner did not call Miramax and tell them to stop my film. Not only that, for the next year, SIX MILLION dollars of DISNEY money continued to flow into the production of making my movie. Miramax assured me that there were no distribution problems with my film.
But then, a few weeks ago when Fahrenheit 9/11 was selected to be in the Cannes Film Festival, Disney sent a low-level production executive to New York to watch the film (to this day, Michael Eisner has not seen the film). This exec was enthusiastic throughout the viewing. He laughed, he cried and at the end he thanked us. "This film is explosive," he exclaimed, and we took that as a positive sign. But “explosive” for these guys is only a good word when it comes to blowing up things in movies. OUR kind of “explosive” is what they want to run from as fast as they can.
Miramax did their best to convince Disney to go ahead as planned with our film. Disney contractually can only stop Miramax from releasing a film if it has received an NC-17 rating (ours will be rated PG-13 or R).
According to yesterday\'s New York Times, the issue of whether to release Fahrenheit 9/11 was discussed at Disney\'s board meeting last week. It was decided that Disney should not distribute our movie.
Earlier this week we got the final, official call: Disney will not put out Fahrenheit 9/11. When the story broke in the New York Times, Disney, instead of telling the truth, turned into Pinocchio.
Here are my favorite nuggets that have come out of the mouths of their spinmeisters (roughly quoted):
"Michael Moore has known for a year that we will not distribute this movie, so this is not news." Yes, that is what I thought, too, except Disney kept sending us all that money to make the movie. Miramax said there was no problem. I got the idea that everything was fine.
"It is not in the best interests of our company to distribute a partisan political film that may offend some of our customers." Hmmm. Disney doesn\'t distribute work that has partisan politics? Disney distributes and syndicates the Sean Hannity radio show every day? I get to listen to Rush Limbaugh every day on Disney-owned WABC. I also seem to remember that Disney distributed a very partisan political movie during a Congressional election year, 1998—a film called The Big One… by, um… ME!
"Fahrenheit 9/11 is not the Disney brand; we put out family oriented films." So true. That\'s why the #1 Disney film in theaters right now is a film called, KILL BILL, VOL. 2. This excellent Miramax film, along with other classics like Pulp Fiction, have all been distributed by Disney. That\'s why Miramax exists -- to provide an ALTERNATIVE to the usual Disney fare. And, unless they were NC-17, Disney has distributed them.
"Mr. Moore is doing this as a publicity stunt." Michael Eisner reportedly said this the other day while he was at a publicity stunt cutting the ribbon for the new "Tower of Terror" ride (what a pleasant name considering what the country has gone through recently) at Disney\'s California Adventure Park. Let me tell you something: NO filmmaker wants to go through this kind of controversy. It does NOT sell tickets (I can cite many examples of movies who have had to change distributors at the last minute and all have failed). I made this movie so people could see it as soon as possible. This is a huge and unwanted distraction. I want people discussing the issues raised in my film, not some inside Hollywood fracas surrounding who is going to ship the prints to the theaters. Plus, I think it is fairly safe to say that Fahrenheit 9/11 has a good chance of doing just fine, considering that my last movie set a box office record and the subject matter (Bush, the War on Terror, the War in Iraq) is at the forefront of most people\'s minds.
So what will happen to my movie? I still don\'t know. What I do know is that I will make sure all of you see it by hook or crook. We are Americans. There are a lot of screwed up things about us right now, but one thing that most of us have in common is that we don\'t like someone telling us we can\'t see something. We despise censors, and the worst censors are those who would dare to limit thoughts and ideas and silence dissent. THAT is un-American. If I have to travel across the country and show it in city parks (or, as one person offered yesterday, to show it on the side of his house for the neighborhood to see), that is what I will do.
More to come, stay tuned.
Yours,
Michael Moore
http://www.michaelmoore.com
mmflint@aol.com
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And to think, ooseven is so quick to jump on the against america bandwagon.
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Originally posted by Bozco
And to think, ooseven is so quick to jump on the against america bandwagon.
What\'s your point?
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Just chuckling, thats all.
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I don\'t see what\'s so bad about all this, mm. Moore\'s comments as Coredweller posted seem to explain everything perfectly fine. I mean, the entire film was financed by Miramax, so his assumptions don\'t seem unreasonable at all.
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let me put it this way
michael moore is the modern day PT barnum
"there\'s a sucker born everyday"
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BiteMeHard: Uh, what?
Everywhere I go, I see a nice moderation of Bush supporters. In fact, around my area people are pretty well split on who they support.. with a slight bias to Kerry and the Dems. (this is Massachusetts, of course)
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what we need in this country, is more people like me, who really don\'t care and know full well that the govt is going to do what they like regardless
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Originally posted by mm
what we need in this country, is more people like me, who really don\'t care and know full well that the govt is going to do what they like regardless
Nothing like the good old days, eh? :p
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hitler, asperations aside, was the greatest motivational speaker the world has ever seen
so core, your saying you have a say in what the govt does? you cant be that naive
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Originally posted by mm
hitler, asperations aside, was the greatest motivational speaker the world has ever seen
so core, your saying you have a say in what the govt does? you cant be that naive
We do collectively when we vote or when we don\'t vote. I am almost as cynical as you but not quite. Give me a few more years and I\'ll probably be right there with you.
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i worked long and hard at it
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^^^
for some reasons, that gave me a a chuckle....(still remember when mm who had trouble admitting he was wrong was defeated by coredweller.)
btw cored,
forgive my naiveness, what does those people raising their hands sidways mean?
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It was Heil to Hitler.
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oh, which means hail to hitler....
or is the spelling incorrect?
*shrug*
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Heil = Hail.
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Originally posted by Paul2
oh, which means hail to hitler....
or is the spelling incorrect?
*shrug*
the guy below you is correct. I mistook heil for hail when heil is actually "salvation" or something like that if I remember correctly.
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Originally posted by Paul2
forgive my naiveness, what does those people raising their hands sidways mean?
Wow
hitler, asperations aside, was the greatest motivational speaker the world has ever seen
Damnit i knew he was a Nazi
Maybe the greatest to a bunch of mindless fools :p. Took the easy way out. what a pussy :D
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mindless?
he made a nations of millions believe that they could defeat the world. every man, woman, and child in that country at the time put thier effort in.
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And he made the Jewish population disappear without people even knowing it.
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My 2 cents on this subject - Hitler obtained power with the consent of the majority due to a two major reasons:
1. He revived German Nationalistic pride by defying the crippling terms of the Treaty of Versailles.
2. The depression in Germany during the 1930\'s made our depression here look like a mild recession. Hitler gave the people jobs and a purpose. Anyone who knows anything about the German people of that they prided themselves in being efficient and with the disgrace of the WWI and the global depression that hit Germany particulary hard, the people were desperate for strong leadership - no one can deny Hitler gave them this.
The Weimar Republic was doomed because of the economic and post war situation that was handed to them. There has been no speaker in our time who has matched Hitler\'s charisma. Though he is considered a madman, his skills in speech and political manuevers were exceptional.
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From what I remember in history,
that time, after the WWI, pretty much each country wanted Germany to paid back the war funds, damages, etc except U. S. A. which want no parts in this.
After WWI, Germany had gotten very poor and stuff that they got no money to paid France, England, and Spain? of the war....
And this crazy Hitler came out of nowhere and wrongly blamed the Jewish people for their suffering and being poor.
Remember that time, most Jewish people are living in middle and upper class probably due to their intelligent and that they work really well or something like that while MostGermans non Jewish, mostly Protestant were living in poverty in comparisons.
Hitler, who got jealous of the Jewish, blame the problmes on the jewish...
again, correct me if i am wrong...this is what i learned from History...
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Heil = Hail.
as in most of the concepts the Nazi\'s used where stolen from the Romans..
Heil = HAIL is a classic example.
Also the use of eagles is another.
anyway its getting all Off-topic.
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Originally posted by mm
what we need in this country, is more people like me, who really don\'t care and know full well that the govt is going to do what they like regardless
Well....I think they gov\'t will do whatever they want, regardless of what I know and what I say. I\'m just one person. However, Californians, being the far left tree hugging, anti-Christs they are ( ;) ), will protest Republicans and laud Wife cheating Democrats. :p
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Originally posted by Paul2
From what I remember in history,
that time, after the WWI, pretty much each country wanted Germany to paid back the war funds, damages, etc except U. S. A. which want no parts in this.
After WWI, Germany had gotten very poor and stuff that they got no money to paid France, England, and Spain? of the war....
And this crazy Hitler came out of nowhere and wrongly blamed the Jewish people for their suffering and being poor.
Remember that time, most Jewish people are living in middle and upper class probably due to their intelligent and that they work really well or something like that while MostGermans non Jewish, mostly Protestant were living in poverty in comparisons.
Hitler, who got jealous of the Jewish, blame the problmes on the jewish...
again, correct me if i am wrong...this is what i learned from History...
You are partially wrong - Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany\'s defeat in WWI - not necessarily for the economic troubles as the world was in a general depression.
The Jews in Europe at the time were also very xenophobic and anti semitism has been around in Europe since the Middle Ages - for example a group of knights from France, England and Germany were leaving Europe and were passing through a Jewish village in Germany. They claimed they "mistook" the Jews for Muslims and slaughtered them.
Anyway this thread has gone way off topic and I haven\'t helped ;) So lets try and keep it on Michael Moore - if anyone wants to discuss WW2 or National Socialism please open a new thread.
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*ooseven can’t believe that no-one has linked the Late Mr Disney and Nazism in the thread… well thank God no-one has because we all know Disney are the American Yakuza and would either be round trying to hack limbs of us with katanas …:eek: or worse still getting their lawyers onto us:eek:
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I\'d whip you with a wet noodle. But as of yet, no one has ever gotten hurt from one so I abstain from the whipping. :p
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http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/index.html
finally, someone will put that pig back in his pen
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That\'s great. I hope this Michael can get just as much press. Looks like he\'s doing a good job so far.
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Originally posted by videoholic
That\'s great. I hope this Michael can get just as much press. Looks like he\'s doing a good job so far.
Tis time to spread the link all over the internet. :p
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Moore is a douche and I hope this movie is a flop. He\'s probably one of those people that would go and throw bags of piss on the troops as they come home. I hate this guy.
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I saw the first commercial for it the other day. It was put together in a way that almost made it feel like GWB had those planes fly into the WTC. I guess that\'s his intention . . .
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Originally posted by Ace
I saw the first commercial for it the other day. It was put together in a way that almost made it feel like GWB had those planes fly into the WTC. I guess that\'s his intention . . .
I saw that commercial and was pretty pissed watching it. I just had a thought. I\'d love to see the South Park episode when they rip on this movie.
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I was reading one article about him. I love this quote. What a frickin hypocrite.
Moore dismissed criticism over his purchase of a million-dollar home. "I\'m a millionaire, I\'m a multi-millionaire," he proclaimed. "I\'m filthy rich. You know why I\'m a multi-millionaire? \'Cause multi-millions like what I do. That\'s pretty good, isn\'t it? There\'s millions that believe in what I do. Pretty cool, huh?"
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What did Michael Moore say to the waiter?
Bring it on. Har har har! I made a fat joke! Har har har!
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Originally posted by Blade
What did Michael Moore say to the waiter?
Bring it on. Har har har! I made a fat joke! Har har har!
Like I said, he\'s a complete douche.
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http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060763957/qid=1087520798/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/102-0722106-9889721?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
get your copy today
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Thanks - I just pre ordered. :)
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Did you get this?
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I\'m gonna buy this book.
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The first in depth review of F911 I have read - this author really lays into Moore and the movie. Long, yet excellent read if you want to see through the smoke and mirrors. I can honestly see now why Moore has hired a "team of lawyers and fact checkers". If I had made up so many lies I would have as well.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
The first in depth review of F911 I have read - this author really lays into Moore and the movie. Long, yet excellent read if you want to see through the smoke and mirrors. I can honestly see now why Moore has hired a "team of lawyers and fact checkers". If I had made up so many lies I would have as well.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
Damn that is a brutal review. I\'ve been reading The Nation for a few years, so I\'m familiar with Christopher Hitchens. I have not agreed with everything he\'s said in print and interviews, but he makes some interesting points here. I will see the movie and make up my own mind. I\'ll post my own review here after I\'ve seen it.
I do somewhat disagree with the idea of contrasting things Michael Moore said verbally (such as this "telluride interview") with the things he puts into his movie. If you\'re writing a movie review, you should deal with what\'s presented in the movie as a unit unto itself. Bringing forth implications about seeming contradictions in what he said in personal interviews seems to constitute an attack on Michael Moore the person, not criticism of his work. I find that a little distasteful.
BTW I\'m glad I read that review before seeing the movie. It will give me some things to consider while I\'m viewing it.
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http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/8838660.htm
Another interesting read about how he took someone out of context.
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Originally posted by videoholic
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/8838660.htm
Another interesting read about how he took someone out of context.
Repost.
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Where?
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Originally posted by videoholic
Where?
Scroll to bottom (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33921)
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ah... I\'m swelling in suckage.
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Originally posted by Titan
I saw that commercial and was pretty pissed watching it. I just had a thought. I\'d love to see the South Park episode when they rip on this movie.
did you not see BFC?
South Park wont be ripping on this dude any time soon.
BTW Here I always thought mm stood for Micheale Moore ;)
JK