PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: luckee on May 19, 2004, 11:32:53 AM
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U.S. attack said to kill scores at Iraq wedding
BREAKING NEWS
The Associated Press
Updated: 1:52 p.m. ET May 19, 2004
BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. helicopter fired on a wedding party Wednesday in western Iraq, killing more than 40 people, Iraqi officials said. The U.S. military said it could not confirm the report and was investigating.
Lt. Col Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of Ramadi, said between 42 and 45 people were killed in the attack, which took place about 2:45 a.m. in a remote desert area near the border with Syria and Jordan. He said the dead included 15 children and 10 women.
Dr. Salah al-Ani, who works at a hospital in Ramadi, put the death toll at 45.
The Dubai-based Al Arabiya television reported that more than 20 were killed and 10 injured in the attack, but provided no further details.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5013551/
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At least we didn\'t behead them, I mean, all we did was shoot a wedding up.
:rolleyes:
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Did someone forget to post this part of the article as well...
"Senior Pentagon officials confirmed that approximately 40 fatalities in an attack in the area near the Syrian border, but told NBC News that the AC-130 returned fire after coming under attack from militants."
Why would it surprise anyone if some militants were using the "wedding" as cover? Or mabye it was a mistake?
"Lt. Col Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of Ramadi, said between 42 and 45 people were killed in the attack, which took place about 2:45 a.m. in a remote desert area near the border with Syria and Jordan."
What kind of wedding takes place at 3:00am in the morning? :rolleyes:
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To be fair, it was 2:45am and they were shooting into the air. If they had any brains, it might have occured to them that doing that wasn\'t such a good idea. I sympathize with the Iraqis in this case, but it looks like an accident to me.
BTW is that Bizarro Superman? His S is backwards.
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I was wondering about that too, perhaps LIC mirrored the picture and didnt notice the backwords S?
Anyways, accidents like this is tough luck, but once again, such is the case in war. Especialy when you don\'t know who yer enemys are.
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I mirrored it and yes , I know the S is backwards...I kinda dig it - like Cored said, it\'s Bizzaro style.
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To those that bring up that time in the morning: Never been to a wedding reception that lasted late into the night/early in the morning. Hell, at my cousins wedding we didnt stop the actual party untill 5 something in the am.
giga..AC-130\'s are not quick strike aircraft. They would have had to call that thing hours ahead of time before it oblitterated its target. If the article is correct, and it was an AC130, then there was someone at that wedding the US military wanted dead.
Actually, I wouldnt be surprised at all if the supposed wedding party was a cover, then again I look at it this way.
Shots were supposedly fired in celebration, a chopper comes over to investigate and relays info, then said party gets shot up.
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Nope never been to a wedding reception that lasted until 3:00AM. Also it doesn\'t take hours for an AC130 to respond - in any given theater where operations are active they are usually already in the air and on call so to speak.
I also like the particularly negative spin you gave the title of the topic. Apparently there is nothing postive our forces have done in Iraq. ;)
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Other than remove saddam, not really.
The "spin" I put on it is more in tune with how things are getting worse for us, our soldiers, and our image day by day.
You should be used to my type of sarcasm by now old man.
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Here is what an AC130 Gunship can do - this is from Afghanistan:
For those interested.
http://litterbox.zawodny.com/~jzawodn/tmp/AC130_GunshipMed.wmv
And yes luckee I understand your sarcasm...
Notice on the video how they continue to say not to hit the Mosque - these are the lengths our military goes to in order to keep civilian casualties to a minimum.
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Only comment I have is, before you get upset about the killing of an American innocent, and say BS about how it justifies your abuse of Iraqi inmates, remember the hundreds of Iraq, men, women, and children, civilians, that were not beheaded, but rather, delimbed of arms, and legs, and heads, also burnt to the 3rd degree over 90% of the body yet still alive, by American bombs or bullets.
War is ugly on both sides
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Originally posted by alliswell
Only comment I have is, before you get upset about the killing of an American innocent, and say BS about how it justifies your abuse of Iraqi inmates, remember the hundreds of Iraq, men, women, and children, civilians, that were not beheaded, but rather, delimbed of arms, and legs, and heads, also burnt to the 3rd degree over 90% of the body yet still alive, by American bombs or bullets.
War is ugly on both sides
You know all of that would be true except substitute "by Iraqi" for "by American" and you would be completely correct.
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That was pre-recent BS or post recent BS giga?
All I see is both sides escalating these senseless acts in retaliation for the previous.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Notice on the video how they continue to say not to hit the Mosque - these are the lengths our military goes to in order to keep civilian casualties to a minimum.
whoopty freakin doo...
That should be a requirment not an option.
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Originally posted by ViVi
whoopty freakin doo...
That should be a requirment not an option.
What reality are you living in? If enemy combatants are firing from it - they have every right to level the thing.
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when did those people fire from it? tell me the time on the video I want to know
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Did the US fire on the mosque? No. If there was fire coming from it they would have. I said in my original statement they took great care in not hitting it, but hitting everything around it. I guess you can\'t appreciate that.
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I appreciate it, so we don\'t get hated even more.
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Now I find this.
The U.S. Army said Thursday it killed around 40 people in an attack on suspected foreign fighters in Iraq near the Syrian border, but disputed reports that the victims were members of a wedding party.
Kimmitt said there were no indications that the victims of the attack were part of a wedding party. He said a large amount of money, Syrian passports and satellite communications equipment had been found at the site after the attack
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=PQDFARTDB2F3KCRBAEOCFEY?type=topNews&storyID=5197140
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I say we we nuke it til it glows and then shoot them in the dark.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
I say we we nuke it til it glows and then shoot them in the dark.
I\'m glad you\'re not in charge.
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Yea really, world war three would start and the only safe place would be Anarctica.
This is how I look at it. We nuke Iraq, the dirty nukes the terrorist have start going off, pakistan soon gets in, as does india and isreal. Russia wouldnt be far behind something tells me.
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Russia and China are the only countries with missles capable of hitting the US. China can only hit the west coast... sucks to be you Core ;)
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Right after the Chinese missile malfunctions and plunges into the Pacific, a Russian warhead will be drifting down on your smug little head. :p
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I am low priority - nothing in this area except rednecks - which I wouldn\'t mind seeing gone anyway. :)
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if that\'s the case why is the u.s. so shook when it comes to n.korea? they have nukes also...
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Originally posted by clips
if that\'s the case why is the u.s. so shook when it comes to n.korea? they have nukes also...
Because they are developing a missle that can reach Core :) but it too will malfunction and land in the Pacific.
:laughing:
I did find that comment about the Chinese missle falling in the ocean pretty damn funny.
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Originally posted by clips
if that\'s the case why is the u.s. so shook when it comes to n.korea? they have nukes also...
They probably have Soviet long range bombers that can reach us.
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Which would almost certainly be shot down in the ocean as well.
Giga, I know those plus supposedly NK can only reach the US. Wasnt quite the point though. In this day and age when no one really knows who is loyal to them, nukes could be dropped and lobbed damn near everywhere making life on earth very hellish(literally) for the next 50 years. :D
On that note, I wonder exactly what would happen in terms of weather and atmosphere if all of the nuke capable countries started setting them off in a large scale war.
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It\'d block out the sun... wouldn\'t it?
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thats my guess at the least.
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I don\'t think it matters, we\'d all be dead anyway.
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Not everyone would die, the great majority of the population would, however.
In the immediate attack, you would see most of the urban and population concentrated centers hit within a day.. but fallout easily lasting for years.
Here (http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/nuclearwar1.html) is an interesting article about a global thermonuclear war. it\'s based on the world as it was in 1988, and is based on research the guy did. Obviously events and such are fictional, but the chain of events leading to the allout war are inconsequential; rather, read the results/fallout years closer to the bottom. The rest of the site is interesting, from a rather grim viewpoint. You can see how they make modern nuclear bombs, the effects, etc, etc.
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Is this off topic or does nuking people have everything to do with shooting up a wedding?
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The coversation sort of evolved into talking about nuclear bombs... not devolved. In any case, Nicon is right... try and keep it on the supposed wedding attack.
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Untill we get more information on the issue of the thread... why not just let the discussion lead us where it will?
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after all these little theories, heres a really good one.
maybe it was just a wedding that went wrong..
see that, amazing isn\'t it.
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Iraq wedding, no wedding. Now yes, a wedding.
More keeps comming in. I\'ll post as I find more info. For some odd reason, I really want to get to the bottom of this incident more than any other.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=2&u=/ap/20040523/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI, Associated Press Writer
RAMADI, Iraq - A videotape obtained Sunday by Associated Press Television News captures a wedding party that survivors say was later attacked by U.S. planes early Wednesday, killing up to 45 people. The dead included the cameraman, Yasser Shawkat Abdullah, hired to record the festivities, which ended Tuesday night before the planes struck.
The U.S. military says it is investigating the attack, which took place in the village of Mogr el-Deeb about five miles from the Syrian border, but that all evidence so far indicates the target was a safehouse for foreign fighters.
"There was no evidence of a wedding: no decorations, no musical instruments found, no large quantities of food or leftover servings one would expect from a wedding celebration," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said Saturday. "There may have been some kind of celebration. Bad people have celebrations, too."
But video that APTN shot a day after the attack shows fragments of musical instruments, pots and pans and brightly colored beddings used for celebrations, scattered around the bombed out tent.
The wedding videotape shows a dozen white pickup trucks speeding through the desert escorting the bridal car — decorated with colorful ribbons. The bride wears a Western-style white bridal dress and veil. The camera captures her stepping out of the car but does not show a close-up.
An AP reporter and photographer, who interviewed more than a dozen survivors a day after the bombing, were able to identify many of them on the wedding party video — which runs for several hours.
APTN also traveled to Mogr el-Deeb, 250 miles west of Ramadi, the day after the attack to film what the survivors said was the wedding site. A devastated building and remnants of the tent, pots and pans could be seen, along with bits of what appeared to be the remnants of ordnance, one of which bore the marking "ATU-35," similar to those on U.S. bombs.
A water tanker truck can be seen in both the video shot by APTN and the wedding tape obtained from a cousin of the groom.
The singing and dancing seems to go on forever at the all-male tent set up in the garden of the host, Rikad Nayef, for the wedding of his son, Azhad, and the bride Rutbah Sabah. The men later move to the porch when darkness falls, apparently taking advantage of the cool night weather. Children, mainly boys, sit on their fathers\' laps; men smoke an Arab water pipe, finger worry beads and chat with one another. It looks like a typical, gender-segregated tribal desert wedding.
As expected, women are out of sight - but according to survivors, they danced to the music of Hussein al-Ali, a popular Baghdad wedding singer hired for the festivities. Al-Ali was buried in Baghdad on Thursday.
Prominently displayed on the videotape was a stocky man with close-cropped hair playing an electric organ. Another tape, filmed a day later in Ramadi and obtained by APTN, showed the musician lying dead in a burial shroud — his face clearly visible and wearing the same tan shirt as he wore when he performed.
As the musicians played, young men milled about, most dressed in traditional white robes. Young men swayed in tribal dances to the monotonous tones of traditional Arabic music. Two children — a boy and a girl — held hands, dancing and smiling. Women are rarely filmed at such occasions, and they appear only in distant glimpses.
Kimmitt said U.S. troops who swept through the area found rifles, machine guns, foreign passports, bedding, syringes and other items that suggested the site was used by foreigners infiltrating from Syria.
The videotape showed no weapons, although they are common among rural Iraqis.
Kimmitt has denied finding evidence that any children died in the raid although a "handful of women" — perhaps four to six — were "caught up in the engagement."
"They may have died from some of the fire that came from the aircraft," he told reporters Friday.
However, an AP reporter obtained names of at least 10 children who relatives said had died. Bodies of five of them were filmed by APTN when the survivors took them to Ramadi for burial Wednesday. Iraqi officials said at least 13 children were killed.
Four days after the attack, the memories of the survivors remain painful — as are their injuries.
Haleema Shihab, 32, one of the three wives of Rikad Nayef, said that as the first bombs fell, she grabbed her seven-month old son, Yousef, and clutching the hands of her five-year-old son, Hamza, started running. Her 15-year-old son, Ali, sprinted alongside her. They managed to run for several yards when she fell — her leg fractured.
"Hamza was yelling, \'mommy,\'" Shihab, recalled. "Ali said he was hurt and that he was bleeding. That\'s the last time I heard him." Then another shell fell and injured Shihab\'s left arm.
"Hamza fell from my hand and was gone. Only Yousef stayed in my arms. Ali had been hit and was killed. I couldn\'t go back," she said from her hospital bed in Ramadi. Her arm was in a cast.
She and her stepdaughter, Iqbal — who had caught up with her — hid in a bomb crater. "We were bleeding from 3 a.m. until sunrise," Shihab said.
Soon American soldiers came. One of them kicked her to see if she was alive, she said.
"I pretended I was dead so he wouldn\'t kill me," said Shihab. She said the soldier was laughing. When Yousef cried, the soldier said: "\'No, stop," said Shihab.
Fourteen-year-old Moza, Shihab\'s stepdaughter, lies on another bed of the hospital room. She was hurt in the leg and cries. Her relatives haven\'t told her yet that her mother, Sumaya, is dead.
"I fear she\'s dead," Moza said of her mother. "I\'m worried about her."
Moza was sleeping on one side of the porch next to her sisters Siham, Subha and Zohra while her mother slept on the other end. There were many others on the porch, her cousins, stepmothers and other female relatives.
When the first shell fell, Moza and her sisters, Subha, Fatima and Siham ran off together. Moza was holding Subha\'s hand.
"I don\'t know where Fatima and my mom were. Siham got hit. She died. I saw Zohra\'s head gone. I lost consciousness," said Moza, covering her mouth with the end of her headscarf.
Her sister Iqbal, lay in pain on the bed next to her. Her other sister, Subha, was on the upper floor of the hospital, in the same room with two-year-Khoolood. Her small body was bandaged and a tube inserted in her side drained her liver.
Her ankle was bandaged. A red ribbon was tied to her curly hair. Only she and her older brother, Faisal, survived from their immediate family. Her parents and four sisters and brothers were all killed.
In all, 27 members of Rikad Nayef\'s extended family died — most of them children and women, the family said.
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Originally posted by luckee
I really want to get to the bottom of this incident more than any other.
Why? How would this influence anyones opinion one way or the the other. If you are against this war then it won\'t change and I for one won\'t change my opinion if it really was a wedding. I strongly doubt we will ever know the truth. It could have been a terrorist wedding. That is a happy compromise between the two stories. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Why? How would this influence anyones opinion one way or the the other. If you are against this war then it won\'t change and I for one won\'t change my opinion if it really was a wedding. I strongly doubt we will ever know the truth. It could have been a terrorist wedding. That is a happy compromise between the two stories. :rolleyes:
Why, Im curious.
Who said anything about influencing anyones opinions?
Stop trying to over analyze and argue with everything I post for once.
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Stop being so thin skinned. Anytime you are questioned about a position you take you get defensive. You more than anyone should know this forum isn\'t for the meek.
I am curious as to your curiousity on the matter. Will it change anything if we did kill a bunch of people at a wedding party? Will it change anything if we didn\'t? The answer is the same for both. No.
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It doesn\'t necessarily change anything, but it shows an area where the troops (another area, that is) would have to make drastic changes to their methods. Being pro-war doesn\'t necessarily accompany a willingness to ignore innocent\'s rights to life.
Luckee... don\'t bother trying to discuss anything with Giga... he\'s ahhh... made up his mind about pretty much everything.
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I know FatalX and thats why I mostly ignore his narrow minded views on certain things.
Giga-as for you, this has nothing to do with thin skin. Leave things that dont belong out of this as they dont apply.
For the record again, what posistion did I take?
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Is that what those who oppose your views are called? I would rather be narrowminded than have a lack of resolve...
Liberals usually label conservatives narrowminded - ironic considering that is a narrowminded view in itself. luckee - you constantly answer questions I ask you with questions. That is a good indicator of someone who knows nothing of what they speak.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Will it change anything if we did kill a bunch of people at a wedding party? Will it change anything if we didn\'t? The answer is the same for both. No.
The answer is no?
or more correctly the answer for YOU is no, the answer for the family of the people who went there to celebrate the wedding is most definitely YES.
your biggest worry today is dodging the boss as you chat in the internet while youre supposed to be working....try burying your dead brothers and sisters and listening to this bullshit from your indifferent lips...this sums up a lot of american feeling towards the middle east...if its not in your own back door then \'it wont change anything\'
how arrogant.
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I like this Guy....
Yup you also have to factor in how this will effect the attatude of moderate Iraqis.
Its not to say that this or any action will ever drive them to join the insurgent cause, but it will eventually effect them and their lasting attatude toward the west.
Giga...just a quick question for you.
If you where an Iraqi and you had some friends or even family members killed as a result of direct or indirect fire from a US fighter/bomber...
who would you feel ?
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Originally posted by Road Kill Recipies
The answer is no?
or more correctly the answer for YOU is no, the answer for the family of the people who went there to celebrate the wedding is most definitely YES.
your biggest worry today is dodging the boss as you chat in the internet while youre supposed to be working....try burying your dead brothers and sisters and listening to this bullshit from your indifferent lips...this sums up a lot of american feeling towards the middle east...if its not in your own back door then \'it wont change anything\'
how arrogant.
Oh please. Those people hate us already - like they need another reason.
Maybe your biggest worry is getting a job... or paying for your tuition?
Besides it wasn\'t a wedding... why don\'t you get a dose of reality. You represent the current European philosophy of apathy towards anything that isn\'t at YOUR backdoor then you need not worry about it. Sorry, but that isn\'t reality. Maybe if Glasgow started glowing you would worry.
BTW what dead "brothers" have you buried? Since you are at "university" :rolleyes: you might want to get back to studying.
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Originally posted by ooseven
^^^^
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I like this Guy....
Yup you also have to factor in how this will effect the attatude of moderate Iraqis.
Its not to say that this or any action will ever drive them to join the insurgent cause, but it will eventually effect them and their lasting attatude toward the west.
Giga...just a quick question for you.
If you where an Iraqi and you had some friends or even family members killed as a result of direct or indirect fire from a US fighter/bomber...
who would you feel ?
The reality is - I am not an Iraqi. I don\'t live in a world of hypotheticals unlike you two. You two make me ashamed to have ancestors from Scotland... I guess the best either came to the US or were resettled in Northern Ireland.
:rolleyes:
If you knew anything about Arab culture - you would know they embelish events to justify their causes. Even their religious leaders endorse lying if it is for the greater "good", which is matter of perception. No matter what the West does - the ones who do not like us will always twist it into something negative.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Maybe if Glasgow started glowing you would worry.
Giga...
Scotland was the scene of the UK Biggest terrorist action.
December 21st. 1988
Pan Am Flight 103
Lockerbie
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In fact try that very same attitiude on the people of Lockerbie and see where your isn\'t at YOUR backdoor mentality gets you...
Prob accident and emergency at the local NHS hospital.
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We got our justice and have the man responsible ...behind bars.
We also managed it with-out invading two countries and spilling yet more blood. :rolleyes:
oh and p.s.
Where is Mr Bin Laden again :
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ooseven
Giga...
Scotland was the scene of the UK Biggest terrorist action.
December 21st. 1988
Pan Am Flight 103
Lockerbie
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In fact try that very same attitiude on the people of Lockerbie and see where your isn\'t at YOUR backdoor mentality gets you...
Prob accident and emergency at the local NHS hospital.
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We got our justice and have the man responsible ...behind bars.
We also managed it with-out invading two countries and spilling yet more blood. :rolleyes:
oh and p.s.
Where is Mt Bin Laden again :
:rolleyes:
You gained your justice?!?!?! The US led the fight to get the terrorists extradited from Libya - not the Scots. How many of those were Scots that died on that Pan Am flight? How many Scots were killed on the ground? 3? You act as if Scotland was attacked :rolleyes:. Give me a break - the plane blew up over Scotland... you can\'t compare 9/11 and Lockerbie in relation to an attack on a country.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
. Even their religious leaders endorse lying if it is for the greater "good",
What...and our politicians don’t do the same ?
Blair “Iraq is capable of launching WMD in 45 minutes that could hit London”
Whole War campaign “ Iraq has links to Al Quida”
Whole War campaign “ Iraq has WMD”
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Oh please. Those people hate us already - like they need another reason.
you are quite wrong in that assumption....but as the blunders come in on a daily basis its no wonder that the ordinary Iraqi it turning against you and your regime
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Maybe your biggest worry is getting a job... or paying for your tuition?
i work at a College and i run my own business....i graduated from university 10 years ago..why would i need to pay for tuition...its another 6 years till my daughter goes to university...perhaps i will think about it a little nearer the time..
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Besides it wasn\'t a wedding... why don\'t you get a dose of reality.
ahh, the machine of misinformation runs of well oiled wheels, well certainly in your part of america...
Originally posted by GigaShadow
You represent the current European philosophy of apathy towards anything that isn\'t at YOUR backdoor then you need not worry about it.
wrong again my friend...youre getting good at this...
Originally posted by GigaShadow
BTW what dead "brothers" have you buried? Since you are at "university" :rolleyes: you might want to get back to studying.
i was referring to the wedding guests who had to bury thier party members...america knows nothing of brotherhood..
as for lockerbie, like ooseven says, we used justice to sort out that particular terrorist, not carpet bombing, illegal invasion and bloodshed....and yet i heard recently that americans think the arabs are a barbaric nation for beheading one of the foriegners...they can learn a thing or two from the bush administration about barbarism...
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Originally posted by ooseven
What...and our politicians don’t do the same ?
Blair “Iraq is capable of launching WMD in 45 minutes that could hit London”
Whole War campaign “ Iraq has links to Al Quida”
Whole War campaign “ Iraq has WMD”
oh and you forgot that the west was in imminent danger from Iraqs WMD...we have to act now...
thank god those two shells were found...we could all be dead by now.
shock and awe? ha! america lurches from one disaster to the next...the only awesome thing about the iraq campain is how ill thought out it was and the utter ineptitude of its execution...
only YOU, giga, could be in awe of such a campaign..
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Originally posted by Road Kill Recipies
yet i heard recently that americans think the arabs are a barbaric nation for beheading one of the foriegners...they can learn a thing or two from the bush administration about barbarism....
Its Also strange that Both the UK and US support Saudi Arabia even though they have an appalling human right record.
Heck in fact Both UK & US companies ship Torture and execution equipment to Saudi Arabia who coincidentally have one of the most corrupt and flawed “justice" servies on the Planet.
Strange that ?
How on group of Arabs are quite rightfully condemned as barbarians for beheading an western prisoner
While a whole country (Saudi Arabia) is supported and over looked by our governments…despite the fact that they do the same but on a Grander Scale (only with Arabs).
But then again i forgot the life equation...
1 American life = 1000 Arabs
and then you have to remember what Blair said about paying the Blood Price with UK service men & women before the start of Gulf War 2.
so therefore
1 American life = 1000 Arab Lifes
&
1 American life = 100 British Lifes
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Originally posted by ooseven
I
Heck in fact Both UK & US companies ship Torture and execution equipment to Saudi Arabia who coincidentally have one of the most corrupt and flawed “justice" servies on the Planet.
ssshhhhhh!!!...we\'re not supposed to let the american know that!
i remember a couple of years ago a Brit was executed by beheading for drinking and vandalism on the streets of Saudi Arabia..
sure everyone says its barbaric but then, these are the laws of the land, break thier rules at your peril...its designed to reduce crime to its lowst level, and it works....now yanks bleat on about...\'oh theyre boming us, please fell sorry for us\'...you invaded thier bloody country...if you invaded mine i might be a little miffed too.
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Originally posted by Road Kill Recipies
you are quite wrong in that assumption....but as the blunders come in on a daily basis its no wonder that the ordinary Iraqi it turning against you and your regime
Regime - sounds like leftist propaganda to me. No war is ever perfect - as I said - come back to reality.
i work at a College and i run my own business....i graduated from university 10 years ago..why would i need to pay for tuition...its another 6 years till my daughter goes to university...perhaps i will think about it a little nearer the time..
Sure you do.
ahh, the machine of misinformation runs of well oiled wheels, well certainly in your part of america...
From the other side of the row the same could be said about the news you read. The Guardian perhaps - or better yet the Daily Mirror? :laughing: I would bet you were one of the first to buy into the faked photos.
america knows nothing of brotherhood..
Talk about arrogant statements.
as for lockerbie, like ooseven says, we used justice to sort out that particular terrorist, not carpet bombing, illegal invasion and bloodshed....and yet i heard recently that americans think the arabs are a barbaric nation for beheading one of the foriegners...they can learn a thing or two from the bush administration about barbarism...
Once again, you didn\'t use justice to get those terrorists... without pressure from the US - you never would have gotten them. As if Scotland can pressure any other nation to do what it wants.
Lets see Arabs beheading someone on video and Bush being barbaric - nope I don\'t see the connection.
Lastly - are you Muslim? Just curious since you sound a lot like a Muslim I know who insists Israel was behind 9/11 and no Jews died because they were all "informed" beforehand not to go to work that day. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Road Kill Recipies
sure everyone says its barbaric but then, these are the laws of the land, break thier rules at your peril...its designed to reduce crime to its lowst level, and it works....now yanks bleat on about...\'oh theyre boming us, please fell sorry for us\'...you invaded thier bloody country...if you invaded mine i might be a little miffed too.
Of course we invaded their country - what right do you have to determine our foreign policy and national security... also who asked you to feel sorry for us?
We don\'t have to justify our actions to anyone regarding our actions after 9/11 - not to you, not to the press and certainly not to the Iraqi\'s.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
also who asked you to feel sorry for us?
Err how many foreign nationals died in the WTC ?
In fact if I remember correctly there was more foreign nationals killed that Americans in those attacks.
*Side note & off topic*
Additionally most of the people killed where low payed workers (cleaning and Maintenince staff) who where just about to finish there shift in the morning when the attacks happend.
its just a shame that for the most part they seam to be the forgoten few as most analysis say it was an attack of a Muslim terror group ... on rich America.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Lastly - are you Muslim?
why? what do you associate with the label of Muslim?
would you be intimidated if i were? wow, a Muslim that can speak English better than a Yank...
why dont you guess...you may guess right in which case youre smarter than i give you credit for...if you guess wrong then you are only doing what you know best...branding all Muslims as terrorist...the killing of which \'wont change anything\'
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Originally posted by Road Kill Recipies
why? what do you associate with the label of Muslim?
would you be intimidated if i were? wow, a Muslim that can speak English better than a Yank...
You can speak English better than me? How would you know? Your grammar leaves a lot to be desired.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Err how many foreign nationals died in the WTC ?
In fact if I remember correctly there was more foreign nationals killed that Americans in those attacks.
*Side note & off topic*
Additionally most of the people killed where low payed workers (cleaning and Maintenince staff) who where just about to finish there shift in the morning when the attacks happend.
its just a shame that for the most part they seam to be the forgoten few as most analysis say it was an attack of a Muslim terror group ... on rich America.
ooseven where in God\'s name do you get your information from? Really - you couldn\'t be more wrong about everything you stated in that post. "Most analysts say it was an attack of a Muslim terror group... on rich America." I think you are the only arm chair political analyst that I have heard that from. Do I sense some jealousy in that rich America comment?
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ooseven hates America, just like Unic.
And for the record, my room mate in highschool was Muslim. He doesn\'t believe women are on the same level as men. It\'s a quasi religious but mostly cultural thing, though. Iran, when it was a secular government, gave women a lot of rights. Once the Ayatollahs took over, it\'s not as progressive as it used to be for women. They still have more rights than most Muslim countries.
Edit - oops! My point? Well, since religions was brought up, this type of religion is a bit more oppressive that Christianity. Although, there are a few Christians that are just as bad, it seems there are far far more radical Muslims than Christian ones.
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There are a lot of Christians that are as bad - ie. the ones who deny their children medical attention because they believe God will heal them as a small example.
If most of the UK felt the way ooseven does, there would be massive protests daily regarding the War in Iraq. Seeing as their aren\'t any, I guess he is on the fringe in his beliefs.
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Most of the UK opinion is opposed to the American/British occupation of Iraq and there were huge demonstrations when conflict erupted.
There are daily protests outside the Commons.
Go on, have a guess.
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Originally posted by Road Kill Recipies
Most of the UK opinion is opposed to the American/British occupation of Iraq and there were huge demonstrations when conflict erupted.
There are daily protests outside the Commons.
Go on, have a guess.
Funny how no one hears anything about them... Even the BBC doesn\'t mention them. We have our own beatniks who protest in front of the White House everyday as well, whether there is a war or not and regardless of what party is in office.
Guess about what? Your religious denomination or if you are just a sympathizer? Is there a difference between the two from my point of view. Nah - you are one in the same.
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I hope gas prices drop soon. :)
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
I hope gas prices drop soon. :)
*off topic*
For you Maybe....
For us Brit\'s....
Nnnnnnnnnnnoooooooo
its 80.9p per litre (if your lucky)
when you convert it to the funny non metric system & money ;) it\'s
$5.40 per US gallon.
Gman you pay say around
$1.95 per US gallon
Want to swap ;)
From the looks of thing we might have our second Fuel Strike under Blairs Goverment.
This and the Rail strike & Firemen Strike is going to make living and Traveling in the UK "fun".
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
If most of the UK felt the way ooseven does, there would be massive protests daily regarding the War in Iraq. Seeing as their aren\'t any, I guess he is on the fringe in his beliefs.
Nah, trust me, beliefs and actions are not tied so closely together. Many people can hold a belief, but the ones who act on it are often only a small percentage, and the ones who organize for it are an even smaller percentage. I hold views that are similar to ooseven\'s, or at least on that side of the spectrum, but I find myself acting out to support those views less and less, whether it be with my posts here or my actions in the world around me.
Part of this might be because of the hopelessness and uselessness that gets associated with such actions when you have a government that is already taking action that the vast majority of the country opposes. The government already knows it is going against the will of the people in Britain, so why would a demonstration change anything? It would simply serve to reinforce what they already know.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
ooseven hates America, just like Unic.
I don\'t hate America....
I hate the Piss Poor Bush Administration and their foreign / economic and environmnetal Policys.
same go\'s for the Piss Poor Blair Administration.
but with the Blair goverment...
Add Transport..
Tax..
The State of the puplic Health service(more Administrators than hospital beds)..
Growth of political correctness..
Education (Uni Fees)....
Laying about WMD in Iraq...
Forcing us to Joing the Euro and throwing way our power to the EU...
Making the BBC toothless (Hutton)
I also Detest Blair on a personal level...
For being a slimey...
Self obsessed ...
Back stabbing...
Self righteous…
Spineless…
laying Bastard who’s in with the political correctness brigade and is married to a grinning loon who is Also a Layer.
I mean come on Who send Christmas cards with a shameless “professional” picture of your family to people
Also his interview with the Sun before the start of the Gulf war , about “how he told his children that …Daddy could lose his Job over Iraq” really got up my noise.
Well Wooooopppppeeeedoooooooo !
Has it ever croos His Tiny Mind that the Service Men & Women might be loosing their Lives thanks to his Decision.
I don\'t Bush hate bush on a personal level... i like laughing at him... not with him ;).
Bushism "... it is important that i help you put food on you family"
Bushism "...most of our imports are foreign"
Bushism "...Blair is a Alright kind of guy"...mustn\'t know him very well then :rolleyes: ;)