PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GigaShadow on July 02, 2004, 04:52:35 AM
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I know I may be beating a dead horse with a few people here, but after seeing that movie, I really, really hate this guy. Here is yet another article on Moore and the zombies that follow him.
Did I mention I despise this man? ;)
On Friday Michael Moore\'s new "documentary" Fahrenheit 911 opened nationwide in 868 theatres and is already on its way to being Mr. Moore\'s most successful movie to date. Like most people I found myself with nothing to do on opening night and since I had an overwhelming curiosity about the movie, largely due to its constant coverage in the media, I bribed my wife to go, and purchased two tickets.
Needless to say, I should\'ve stayed home and watched Walker Texas Ranger. This film was not a balanced look at the facts revolving around the events of September 11th and its aftermath. This was America according to Michael Moore. So if you have a similar inclination to visit your local theatre, please let me save you the fourteen dollars and give you a list of the "facts" presented in the movie.
Michael Moore Fact # 1: George W. Bush knew a guy, who knew a guy, who stood next to a guy on an elevator, who happened to be the husband of a girl whose cousin was dating this really, really fat man, who worked with a guy who was related to (hold your breath for this one) Osama BIN LADEN!!!!!!!!!!! At this point in the film Michael Moore interviews a few democrats who say Bush is a bad stupid man who has some curious links to the Bin Laden family, plays music that probably got rejected from Unsolved Mysteries, and shows Bush and his father shaking the hands of Saudi Arabians.
Michael Moore Fact # 2: Americans supported the war with Iraq because we are trained dogs. Now you have to really focus on this part of the film to absorb it all. We as Americans are manipulated by the media with the orange alerts, terrorist threats, and cavity searches that we just went along blindly with after 9/11. After all there is no real terrorist threat. The media created it because they are manipulated by the Bush Administration. Apparently, even though the president is a buffoon, he is capable of controlling the media, who are controlling you. So who\'s pulling the President\'s strings you ask? (I know that was my obvious question.) The President is under the authority of (hold your breath again) the Saudi Arabians, Big Oil, Big Tobacco, Enron, the Rich Republicans, his Daddy, and Osama BIN LADEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michael Moore Fact # 3: Until we went there and disrupted the peace Baghdad was the happiest place in the world. It looked like a scene out of Mary Poppins. There were kids flying kites, playing in playgrounds, teenagers shopping at the Gap - well, it was all happiness and puppies. That whole third world country thing was just propaganda. What about the whole Saddam Hussein oppressive dictatorship you ask? Horse Puckey! Everything was just dandy until we went there and destroyed the peace in Iraq.
Michael Moore Fact #4: Our soldiers are dumb rednecks who like to play rock music while they kill innocent civilians. However, they were in turn preyed upon by Nazi Military recruiters who force these poor minorities - mainly from Flint, Michigan - to join up. After being forced into the military, then being forced to actually go fight in a war, these poor innocents are misled by our Government\'s immorality and that\'s why they molest prisoners.
Now if you still can\'t resist the urge to waste your money, you can learn more interesting Michael Moore facts like: 1) there are no cops in Oregon, 2) black people\'s votes don\'t count in Florida, and 3) protestors are the only people who aren\'t blind sheep in this country. Oh, and at the end of the movie expect a standing ovation from a group of people who don\'t see the movie as a presentation of Michael Moore\'s skewed, pessimistic view of America - they just see it as Amerika.
J.C. King
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Can\'t wait for it to open over here.
p.s.
Just out of intrest would you brand Moore as bing unpatriotic ?
if so WHY?
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yea, sounds a lot like BFC. Skewed facts but interesting filmmaking. Gets people\'s attention through packaging his message with choice clips edited to make all the potshots seem credible.
I still wouldn\'t like it if it was FOR bush, all just seems pretty tasteless. Ebert even said if there was a documentary made that was pro-Bush and had equally good cinematography, it would still lose at Cannes Film Festival.
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PS- speaking of potshots here\'s a joke in Letterman\'s monologue last night:
"So did anyone see that Faranheit 9/11 film? Well I did... took about 2 hours waiting in line. Oh, not for the movie, but waiting behind Moore at the concession stand"
:D
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Originally posted by ooseven
Just out of intrest would you brand Moore as bing unpatriotic ?
if so WHY?
Being sympathetic to enemies of the US is a start.
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^^^Is that a yes?
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
^^^Is that a yes?
duh... :rolleyes:
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I\'d debating with myself to go see this movie. If I do, I will be there with a pen and a pad of paper, refuting what I can. From what I\'ve read from conservatives and others who have watched it, it looks like a waste of my time and money. Why go see a "documentary" where the facts are made up, just bullshit propaganda.
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If you disagree with him. Why did you go watch it, and put money in his pocket? You had to know what the movie was about before you went.
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Sigh... I didn\'t put money in his pocket. Read the other post about F911. I also don\'t believe in censorship and thought if I was going to comment on it, I should at least see it.
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My bad. I\'ve been awake 24 hours and there was alot of reading. So I went the cheap way and skim read with sleep deprivation.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Sigh... I didn\'t put money in his pocket. Read the other post about F911. I also don\'t believe in censorship and thought if I was going to comment on it, I should at least see it.
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No problem - its hard to keep up with the topics in here... just ask Vid ;)
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Just download the movie. He is already on record that he doesn\'t care if people download the movie on the internet. He just wants the word spread. DOn\'t give the bastard a penny. Just download the thing.
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Vid is he distributing it, or is it a 3rd party? Would download it if there was no fear of the MPAA knocking on my door. Otherwise wait for the DVD release.
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I doubt if he is distributing it for free, but I heard an interview with him this morning that he said he didn\'t care if people downloaded it off the internet.
Now granted his distributor would be pretty pissed and he really has no right to say that, but it seems like he is allowing it. No clue really.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
duh... :rolleyes:
You can be really mean sometimes....
*Cries in a corner*
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Just watched it. He dissed the democrats just as harshly as the republicans. There are some things that I did not buy. On the other hand there were other subject matter I had not heard of, and found plausable. I will not go into detail, but since Moore said on his website to download it if you wish. Then prob would atleast give it a look. If you do not believe it then no foul. You can sit back and think of some as of whackos. On the other hand some things may ring true to you. Either way it is another perspective.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Being sympathetic to enemies of the US is a start.
God i just love that old old fashioned ...Your with us or your against us attitude.
Ah if only the wrold was Balck and White :rolleyes:.
;)
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So being sympathetic to terrorists who attack our country and an enemy our country is fighting is patriotic?
Yes, ooseven it is that black and white when it comes to a being unpatriotic. IMO it borders on treason.
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http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
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Originally posted by ooseven
God i just love that old old fashioned ...Your with us or your against us attitude.
Ah if only the wrold was Balck and White :rolleyes:.
;)
Is wrold some sort of slang for something? ;)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
So being sympathetic to terrorists who attack our country and an enemy our country is fighting is patriotic?
Yes, ooseven it is that black and white when it comes to a being unpatriotic. IMO it borders on treason.
Giga, liberals need all those shades of gray so they have wiggle room to flip flop on issues and so when they\'re wrong they\'re right. No offense. :)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
So being sympathetic to terrorists who attack our country and an enemy our country is fighting is patriotic?
Yes, ooseven it is that black and white when it comes to a being unpatriotic. IMO it borders on treason.
When was anyone being sympathetic toward the Saudi terrorists who attacked our country? It\'s George Bush who is sympathetic to Saudi Arabia... a nation that has no freedom of expression, no freedom of religion, capital punishment by decapitation for robbery, drug smuggling, sodomy, "sorcery" and all greater crimes... There is no fair legal procedure or due process in Saudi Arabia, and their criminal justice system is a sham.
Get a load of this: "Saudi Arabia continued to provide refuge and financial support to Idi Amin, the exiled Ugandan leader whose regime was responsible for a reign of terror that left an estimated 300,00 dead in the 1970s. After fleeing Uganda in 1979, Amin arrived in the kingdom at the invitation of the late King Faisal and reportedly has since been protected by government-paid Saudi guards. A journalist with Uganda\'s New Vision newspaper interviewed Amin in Jeddah in 1999 and reported that he had moved from his home in the city center "to a more exclusive area...mainly occupied by powerful oil sheikhs."
http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=saudia
The US Government and the Bush family supports the Saudi royal family in all things, and turns a blind eye to their human rights abuses. I guess in your eyes I\'ve committed treason for calling attention to reality?
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You really need to get off the Moore bandwagon. Really - he is lowering your IQ.
On that note, I respect you as one of my peers Core, though you are on the other side of the fence so to speak. To feed off Moore\'s fabrications only insults your own reputation. You don\'t see me quoting Limbaugh do you? I would hope you of all people would see F911 and the accusations that Moore makes about the "8 degrees of separation" the Saudi\'s have to Bush is a crock of shit. Give me a budget and a year and I could twist things around to make you look like Eric Rudolph\'s (extreme right wing neo nazi fugitive who bombed numerous places in the US including the Atlanta Olympic Games - he is on trial now) best friend. ;)
The explanation is for our European friends who most likely have no clue who Eric Rudolph is.
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If you insist, we\'ll leave Bush out of it.
The US Government supports the Saudi royal family in all things, and turns a blind eye to their human rights abuses. I guess in your eyes I\'ve committed treason for calling attention to reality?
Is that better? :)
Btw, Giga I was wondering... Do you support all past, present, and future wars the US could ever engage in, or would there ever be a situation in which you would oppose one of our wars? Remember, I\'m talking about the decision to go to war, not "supporting the troops."
For your reference, I have not opposed all wars we have engaged in. I was in favor of invading Afghanistan, and I argued for it on PSX2Central BEFORE the 9/11 attack.
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Past I will take as in the past century - there really wouldn\'t be a point in taking a stance on anything like the War of 1812.
Given that guideline, I would have to say yes to your question. I come from a military family - no I am not Lt. Dan, but we have had a member of our family serve in every major war this country has fought in since the Revolutionary War.
I think more could be done regarding our relationship with Saudi Arabia, but it hardly warrants the amount of attention certain pundits are emphasizing it should receive. Given the rest of the problems in the region, forcing a supposed "ally" to enact a "regime change" is not what should be focused on at this time. I think Saudi Arabia has stepped up its crackdown on the fundamentalists and are starting to realize that they are as much a threat to the Saudi government as they are to the US.
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Damnit. My aunts computer is a pile of $#!t and thus all that i had written was erased. What luck. Anyway, I think Moore brings up a few good point and you really just have to go into the thing knowing that its biased. Its more so the fault of the viewer than moore just due to the fact that people take things so seriously and/or are so misinformed to begin with.
All that patriotism bullshit is kind of rediculous BTW but im not going to make an issue out of it.
Basically, its an interesting film, or whatever you want to call it. I think all the heat the thing gets is kinda silly considering its just a movie. If you dont like the guy or the movie then hey good for you. If you do then the same goes for you. Im just giving my 2cents on the film. If somebody wants to open this thread or the subject up for debate then fine but for the time being ill just say that it was interesting/enjoyable from THIS side of the fence.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Past I will take as in the past century - there really wouldn\'t be a point in taking a stance on anything like the War of 1812.
Given that guideline, I would have to say yes to your question. I come from a military family - no I am not Lt. Dan, but we have had a member of our family serve in every major war this country has fought in since the Revolutionary War.
Do I understand correctly that YES, you do support every past (20 TH Century), present, and hypothetical future war the US could ever be involved in? If so that answer deeply disturbs me. I really did not expect you to give that answer.
I asked that question because I was trying to understand the thought process of people like yourself who support this war in Iraq. I thought, if you support this war, which seems like complete bullshit to a large portion of the US population including me, then what kind of war could you oppose? If you oppose none, then that implies that you have the opinion that the US can do no wrong, and every war we engage in is automatically blessed by the gods as a holy righteous use of force. If I\'m exaggerating, please set me straight.
I think the United States CAN do wrong, and HAS done wrong on many occasions. For example, I thought the Vietnam war was generally understood to be a complete mistake for us. We killed something like 5 million Vietnamese, and around 58,000 of our soldiers were killed, and we accomplished nothing. Isn\'t that a war you could oppose in hindsight? I\'ve heard some say that the only reason we didn\'t win the Vietnam war was because we were not properly committed. This is crazyness. There was no amount of force we could have committed to that confict that would have defeated the North Vietnamese. It does not take a great stretch of imagination to see the Iraq war going in the same direction. Do we as a nation not learn lessons from our mistakes?
You may read these things and think I hate my country, but nothing could be further from the truth. I love this country, and that\'s why I want to do my part to make sure we consider our decisions carefully and make no more awful mistakes.
Also, I don\'t think being from a military family should have anything to do with this. As I said, this is a question about the motives and decisions made by our leadership in going to war. If anything, a soldier and a veteran should have a greater interest in peace than the ordinary civilian dork like me. If you had said that you come from a family of Presidents, that would have supported your answer better.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Do I understand correctly that YES, you do support every past (20 TH Century), present, and hypothetical future war the US could ever be involved in? If so that answer deeply disturbs me. I really did not expect you to give that answer.
I asked that question because I was trying to understand the thought process of people like yourself who support this war in Iraq. I thought, if you support this war, which seems like complete bullshit to a large portion of the US population including me, then what kind of war could you oppose? If you oppose none, then that implies that you have the opinion that the US can do no wrong, and every war we engage in is automatically blessed by the gods as a holy righteous use of force. If I\'m exaggerating, please set me straight.
I think the United States CAN do wrong, and HAS done wrong on many occasions. For example, I thought the Vietnam war was generally understood to be a complete mistake for us. We killed something like 5 million Vietnamese, and around 58,000 of our soldiers were killed, and we accomplished nothing. Isn\'t that a war you could oppose in hindsight? I\'ve heard some say that the only reason we didn\'t win the Vietnam war was because we were not properly committed. This is crazyness. There was no amount of force we could have committed to that confict that would have defeated the North Vietnamese. It does not take a great stretch of imagination to see the Iraq war going in the same direction. Do we as a nation not learn lessons from our mistakes?
You may read these things and think I hate my country, but nothing could be further from the truth. I love this country, and that\'s why I want to do my part to make sure we consider our decisions carefully and make no more awful mistakes.
Also, I don\'t think being from a military family should have anything to do with this. As I said, this is a question about the motives and decisions made by our leadership in going to war. If anything, a soldier and a veteran should have a greater interest in peace than the ordinary civilian dork like me. If you had said that you come from a family of Presidents, that would have supported your answer better.
As far as being a military family, it has a lot to do with who I am and my opinions on matters like this. I was raised as a military brat and I served my time as well, though I didn\'t make it a career.
I will admit one can always find a reason for calling a war a mistake in hindsight. There are many valid reasons as to why Vietnam was a mistake and I would essentially agree that the Vietnam War was pointless - even if it were to contain Communism in SE Asia. My father hated Vietnam when he was there - not because he hated the cause or the people, he hated it because he felt like he was in prison. I would imagine some of our troops in Iraq feel exactly the same way now. Does that make the Iraqi war was a mistake? Time will tell - I think it is way too early to make that determination now.
The US isn\'t perfect, but our country with all its faults is still better than any other country in the world today. Whenever there is a problem in the world, who does the UN come running to? It amazes me that people in other countries think we shouldn\'t "police" the world, yet when the shit gets deep they are the first ones begging for our help. The countries and citizens that are critical of us now should try and remember that nothing is perfect, but on the whole we do our best to make the world a better place, which is a lot more than I can say for other countries.
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I probably should learn not to have an opinion on war. I\'m going into the military, maybe as a helicopter pilot, and will go no matter what I think. What I think of the war doesn\'t matter, I\'d still be there.
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Originally posted by Titan
I probably should learn not to have an opinion on war. I\'m going into the military, maybe as a helicopter pilot, and will go no matter what I think. What I think of the war doesn\'t matter, I\'d still be there.
Exactly. It makes more sense to go to war, not knowing what or believing in what you are fighting for. Brilliant, man...Brilliant.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
So being sympathetic to terrorists who attack our country and an enemy our country is fighting is patriotic?
Yes, ooseven it is that black and white when it comes to a being unpatriotic. IMO it borders on treason.
(in the Film)
So was Moore being sympathetic to terrorists or was he just being critical of the Bush Administation ?
I don\'t know because i haven\'t seen the Film yet...
But if he\'s JUST being critical of the Bush Administation.... then no way can you consider him for being UNPATRIOTIC.
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Patriotism isn’t just BLIND faith in a government
Nor is it "MY country Right or WRONG !"
IT IS however … the Willingness to stand-up and do what is right for the Country …regardless if it FOR or AGAINST the current administration.
Politics Don’t enter into where your Patriotic or NOT… Well in a TRUE democracy anyway.
Don’t know how they work in NEO police states…
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Exactly. It makes more sense to go to war, not knowing what or believing in what you are fighting for. Brilliant, man...Brilliant.
Do I detect sarcasm?
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Originally posted by ooseven
(in the Film)
So was Moore being sympathetic to terrorists or was he just being critical of the Bush Administation ?
He was being critical of the Bush administration. Mostly for using war to gain approval and money and for hypocritically supporting the Saudis, also for money.
He also took a number of jabs at Bush for bein an idiot, and that\'s where you have to stop listening and just enjoy the humor in his jabs.
Moore has a dry sense of humor, but you can tell when he\'s making a point and when he\'s taking a personal shot.
There are times that his logic takes a leap of faith that\'s a bit big to swallow, but other times he points out things like how the administration neglected to read reports directly alluding to 9/11.
Heh, he also shows a congressman who passed the Patriotic Act, which Moore disagrees with, and the guy talks about how most congressmen don\'t read the acts they pass. That was pretty amazing, heh.
And he does get on the Florida election saying Bush stole it, but he doesn\'t show enough facts to support that claim. That\'s too bad, because it was an interesting piece of the film. He was trying to demonstrate that black voters were left out of the process, but didn\'t show how. He also mentioned how the Bush family and friends were in charge of the local government and election process in Florida, but he didn\'t show how that influenced the decision.
He also takes a nice shot and the media.
-Dan
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That pretty much sums it up Eiksirf. The only disagreement I have is with the statement he was only being critical of the Bush Administration.
In my view he was also providing propaganda to the enemy, why do you think Hezbolah wants to help distribute the film? I mean there are scenes in the film showing Iraqi\'s as peace loving innocent people - that is not being critical of Bush - that is providing inaccurate information for the purpose of portraying the feeling of sympathy for Saddam Era Iraq. Moore also claims that Iraq has never "murdered or conspired to murder" an American citizen which is a bold faced lie.
I agree Moore\'s main goal of the film is to be critical of Bush, but it could have been without pandering to the enemy propaganda machine.
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Is it just me or did Moore make Bush look like someone with a plan to wreak havoc from day 1? I mean he made him look like an evil dictator like Hitler, someone with no value for life...
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Originally posted by ViVi
Is it just me or did Moore make Bush look like someone with a plan to wreak havoc from day 1? I mean he made him look like an evil dictator like Hitler, someone with no value for life...
That was his intent. He hates Bush and will do "whatever is necessary" to prevent him from winning another term. Pure propaganda.
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I\'d love to see Moore\'s face if Bush wins the election in November.
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I\'d love to see all of your faces if Kerry wins the election in November. :p
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Originally posted by Coredweller
I\'d love to see all of your faces if Kerry wins the election in November. :p
I\'ll shit my pants :(
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Kerry = GWB when it comes to terrorism and Iraq. Kerry and Edwards don\'t have any plan.
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Well Kerry plans on doing whatever the people want to hear that given day.
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Is Edwards Republican? I heard somewhere he was but most likely hearing voices in my head again :(
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The voices are telling you to kill George Bush... No... take off that aluminum hat!!!111 YOU MUST OBEY THE VOICES! Aaaarrrrgggggggghhhh! :laughing:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
That pretty much sums it up Eiksirf. The only disagreement I have is with the statement he was only being critical of the Bush Administration.
In my view he was also providing propaganda to the enemy, why do you think Hezbolah wants to help distribute the film? I mean there are scenes in the film showing Iraqi\'s as peace loving innocent people - that is not being critical of Bush - that is providing inaccurate information for the purpose of portraying the feeling of sympathy for Saddam Era Iraq. Moore also claims that Iraq has never "murdered or conspired to murder" an American citizen which is a bold faced lie.
I agree Moore\'s main goal of the film is to be critical of Bush, but it could have been without pandering to the enemy propaganda machine.
When he was showing the iraqi people it wasnt a portrayal to show the purity of the entire body of "saddam era" iraq. It was more so to depict what we have done to people that had nothing to do with the damn war in the first place. Of course we dont know if THOSE iraqi\'s shown were innocent but there are some that are.
I can somewhat see your point, but i highly doubt it was his intention to be unpatriotic. All this you are/arent patriotic bullshit is ****ing annoying. I cant stand it when people just swing off the country\'s nuts. If your government is ****ing up then its ****ing up. Nobody wants to crash and burn with the damn thing.
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I saw the movie. It was alright. My girlfriend cried when they were showing all of those images of the dead babies and when the mom read the letter.
I expected the movie to tell only half-truths and stretch a bit. But the whole "unpatriotic" thing on Moore is bullshit. Why? He showed both sides of the story, the innocent dead in Iraq, the story of one of our own dying, the Iraqi\'s being evil and the American soldiers being evil.
I don\'t know Giga, you seem so sure nothing in the movie is real, prove it otherwise. Go explain to the average person who goes to see that movie and made a decision on who to vote because of it. What I found more stricking was all of those black representatives being shot down one by one and how FOX 4 sold out....I mean made a mistake...or made it seem like other stations made the mistake.
Also that every person that Bush put in charge in Afghanistan was a member on some company that Bush used to associate with. And that the pipe through Afghanistan is going to benefit one of Cheney\'s companies.
And Giga it wasn\'t the "he knew a daughter of an uncle who stood next to the elevator..." crap, he made connections and unless you can prove that secret service agents aren\'t protecting that Arabian guy, or that senators don\'t have kids in Iraq, or that soldiers in Iraq don\'t have sour feelings about Bush or that THERE ARE NO WMD and that Bush never assured America that there were, then I\'ll believe you. We have spent more time looking for the nukes than the inspectors did.
When he got in that ice cream truck...funniest things ever
The one thing that caused the most disturbance among the audience(some guy yelled "that stupid mother****er") was when Bush was making some big comment about WMD, Iraq and the war and then he said "now watch this drive"...Also when he sat there after being told that we were under attack.
It is propaganda, but then again what isn\'t? The whole point is if the propaganda works or not and in this case, unless you\'re a firm Republican, this movie will cause people to swing to the Democrat\'s side.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I mean there are scenes in the film showing Iraqi\'s as peace loving innocent people - that is not being critical of Bush - that is providing inaccurate information for the purpose of portraying the feeling of sympathy for Saddam Era Iraq.
Let me play Devil\'s Advocate here, for a second.
Is it not possible that some of the citizens in Iraq actually were peace loving innocents? You know like the everyday people. If they were all warmongering mass murderers why even save them in the first place?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t know Giga, you seem so sure nothing in the movie is real, prove it otherwise. Go explain to the average person who goes to see that movie and made a decision on who to vote because of it. What I found more stricking was all of those black representatives being shot down one by one and how FOX 4 sold out....I mean made a mistake...or made it seem like other stations made the mistake.
First, try scrolling up - find mm\'s post in this thread that links to THE FACTS. Nevermind I will quote some for you:
In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening—before polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed.
At 10:00 p.m., which networks took the lead in retracting the premature Florida win for Gore? The first retracting networks were CNN and CBS, not Fox. (Two networks were using a shared Decision Team.) In fact, Fox didn\'t retract its claim that Gore had won Florida until 2 a.m.--four hours after other networks had withdrawn the call.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Also that every person that Bush put in charge in Afghanistan was a member on some company that Bush used to associate with. And that the pipe through Afghanistan is going to benefit one of Cheney\'s companies.
Afghanistan has its own government and President - elections are not far away either. Afghanistan is not Iraq - there is no occupational government.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
And Giga it wasn\'t the "he knew a daughter of an uncle who stood next to the elevator..." crap, he made connections and unless you can prove that secret service agents aren\'t protecting that Arabian guy, or that senators don\'t have kids in Iraq, or that soldiers in Iraq don\'t have sour feelings about Bush or that THERE ARE NO WMD and that Bush never assured America that there were, then I\'ll believe you. We have spent more time looking for the nukes than the inspectors did.
Early in this segment, Moore states that “only one” member of Congress has a child in Iraq. The action of the segment consists of Moore accosting Congressmen to try to convince them to have their children enlist in the military. At the end, Moore declares, “Not a single member of Congress wanted to sacrifice their child for the war in Iraq.”
Moore’s statement is technically true, but duplicitous. Of course no-one would want to “sacrifice” his child in any way. But the fact is, Moore\'s opening ("only one") and his conclusion ("not a single member") are both incorrect. Sergeant Brooks Johnson, the son of South Dakota Democratic Senator Tim Johnson, serves in the 101st Airborne Division and fought in Iraq in 2003. The son of California Republican Representative Duncan Hunter quit his job after September 11, and enlisted in the Marines; his artillery unit was deployed in the heart of insurgent territory in February 2004. Delaware Senator Joseph Biden\'s son Beau is on active duty; although Beau Biden has no control over where he is deployed, he has not been sent to Iraq, and therefore does not "count" for Moore\'s purposes.
How about Cabinet members? Fahrenheit never raises the issue, because the answer would not fit Moore’s thesis. Attorney General John Ashcroft’s son is serving on the U.S.S. McFaul in the Persian Gulf.
The editing of the Congressional scenes borders on the fraudulent:
….Representative Kennedy (R-MN), one of the lawmakers accosted in Fahrenheit 9/11, was censored by Michael Moore.
According to the [Minneapolis] Star Tribune, Kennedy, when asked if he would be willing to send his son to Iraq, responded by stating that he had a nephew who was en-route to Afghanistan. He went on to inform Moore that his son was thinking about a career in the navy and that two of his nephews had already served in the armed forces. Kennedy’s side of the conversation, however, was cut from the film, leaving him looking bewildered and defensive.
What was Michael’s excuse for trimming the key segment? Kennedy’s remarks didn’t help his thesis: “He mentioned that he had a nephew that was going over to Afghanistan,” Moore recounted. “So then I said ‘No, no, that’s not our job here today. We want you to send your child to Iraq. Not a nephew.’”
Kennedy lambasted Moore as a “master of the misleading” after viewing the interview in question.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
The one thing that caused the most disturbance among the audience(some guy yelled "that stupid mother****er") was when Bush was making some big comment about WMD, Iraq and the war and then he said "now watch this drive"...Also when he sat there after being told that we were under attack.
Bush was refering to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict - Moore edited it for his own purposes - NOT IRAQ.
Here is the link again that mm put up - its all there:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
It might help if you read what people post before acting like you know what you are talking about. If you don\'t think that link is enough - there are plenty more in the forum that will shoot down Moore\'s spin on 911.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
unless you\'re a firm Republican, this movie will cause people to swing to the Democrat\'s side.
That should read "unless you are intelligent, this movie will cause people to swing the Democrat\'s side.
(edit) Must be nice - even to those with IQ\'s in the 70\'s.
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I don\'t need to see this movie to know that bush is bad for our government and has crippled america since he got in office.
While I am not a big Kerry fan anyone besides GWB is needed in the white house.
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^^^love that new avy qdog!...anyway i won\'t say much about this, i finally saw the movie and honestly, it really didn\'t tell me anything that i didn\'t already know..i already was familiar with how bush had shady relations with saudi arabia as i pointed out indirectly in another thread..some of it is spin but alot of it is true..
i only didn\'t agree with him on the spot about when he found out about the twin towers..i don\'t think he should have rushed out of the classroom in which to cause panic...other than that i agreed with mostly everything in the film
*i just had to add the one part where he was ripping the coalition of the willing..more like the coalition of the assed out armies! :laughing: seriously..the only country that\'s respectable are the brits...
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SirMystiq excellent post.
Moore appeared to be critical of most everyone in the film. That is not a bad thing. He raises issues that should be addressed. This country has been in a the US can do no wrong for a few years now. Truth is probably in the middle ground somewhere.
The sad part of this situation is that the election is mostly going to be governed by this situation. I would prefer the cantidates talk about things that effect me and my family. Things such as the economy.
I would love for them to discuss trickle down economics. Many in my family were around when trickle down was first tried. They all claim to this day that it was a leading factor to the depression.
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I find it humerous that the most intelligent - IMHO - liberal/left wing/whatever person in this forum has only made one comment on the film. Something to the effect that it was good entertainment - nothing more nothing less. Even though they hate the Bush administration they are intelligent enough to know fact from fiction.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
First, try scrolling up - find mm\'s post in this thread that links to THE FACTS. Nevermind I will quote some for you:
In fact, the networks which called Florida for Gore did so early in the evening—before polls had even closed in the Florida panhandle, which is part of the Central Time Zone. NBC called Florida for Gore at 7:49:40 p.m., Eastern Time. This was 10 minutes before polls closed in the Florida panhandle. Thirty seconds later, CBS called Florida for Gore. And at 7:52 p.m., Fox called Florida for Gore. Moore never lets the audience know that Fox was among the networks which made the error of calling Florida for Gore prematurely. Then at 8:02 p.m., ABC called Florida for Gore. Only ABC had waited until the Florida polls were closed.
At 10:00 p.m., which networks took the lead in retracting the premature Florida win for Gore? The first retracting networks were CNN and CBS, not Fox. (Two networks were using a shared Decision Team.) In fact, Fox didn\'t retract its claim that Gore had won Florida until 2 a.m.--four hours after other networks had withdrawn the call.
Afghanistan has its own government and President - elections are not far away either. Afghanistan is not Iraq - there is no occupational government.
Early in this segment, Moore states that “only one” member of Congress has a child in Iraq. The action of the segment consists of Moore accosting Congressmen to try to convince them to have their children enlist in the military. At the end, Moore declares, “Not a single member of Congress wanted to sacrifice their child for the war in Iraq.”
Moore’s statement is technically true, but duplicitous. Of course no-one would want to “sacrifice” his child in any way. But the fact is, Moore\'s opening ("only one") and his conclusion ("not a single member") are both incorrect. Sergeant Brooks Johnson, the son of South Dakota Democratic Senator Tim Johnson, serves in the 101st Airborne Division and fought in Iraq in 2003. The son of California Republican Representative Duncan Hunter quit his job after September 11, and enlisted in the Marines; his artillery unit was deployed in the heart of insurgent territory in February 2004. Delaware Senator Joseph Biden\'s son Beau is on active duty; although Beau Biden has no control over where he is deployed, he has not been sent to Iraq, and therefore does not "count" for Moore\'s purposes.
How about Cabinet members? Fahrenheit never raises the issue, because the answer would not fit Moore’s thesis. Attorney General John Ashcroft’s son is serving on the U.S.S. McFaul in the Persian Gulf.
The editing of the Congressional scenes borders on the fraudulent:
….Representative Kennedy (R-MN), one of the lawmakers accosted in Fahrenheit 9/11, was censored by Michael Moore.
According to the [Minneapolis] Star Tribune, Kennedy, when asked if he would be willing to send his son to Iraq, responded by stating that he had a nephew who was en-route to Afghanistan. He went on to inform Moore that his son was thinking about a career in the navy and that two of his nephews had already served in the armed forces. Kennedy’s side of the conversation, however, was cut from the film, leaving him looking bewildered and defensive.
What was Michael’s excuse for trimming the key segment? Kennedy’s remarks didn’t help his thesis: “He mentioned that he had a nephew that was going over to Afghanistan,” Moore recounted. “So then I said ‘No, no, that’s not our job here today. We want you to send your child to Iraq. Not a nephew.’”
Kennedy lambasted Moore as a “master of the misleading” after viewing the interview in question.
Bush was refering to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict - Moore edited it for his own purposes - NOT IRAQ.
Here is the link again that mm put up - its all there:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
It might help if you read what people post before acting like you know what you are talking about. If you don\'t think that link is enough - there are plenty more in the forum that will shoot down Moore\'s spin on 911.
That should read "unless you are intelligent, this movie will cause people to swing the Democrat\'s side.
(edit) Must be nice - even to those with IQ\'s in the 70\'s.
Most of the stuff I read were suppositions.
That stuff about Fox 4 being shown as the reason why every other channel changed their mind wasn\'t the stricking point on me. I think that it was just Moore\'s way of saying "of course the un-biased Fox network had the opposite opinion"
The whole thing about Moore making it seem like he was some kind of super spy for getting those documents without the dark outs...It didn\'t even cross my mind.
There is only one kid that is a child of the senator\'s in Iraq. Moore made the point and I\'m sure all of the audience assumed that Moore isn\'t saying that nobody in the Government has a child in Iraq.
You know what Giga, Moore sure is evil. The bastard edited video\'s to fit his own purposes!! What kind of evil mastermind is he? Who would do such a thing? Who would lie to the whole country? Who would mislead his own people?
I know another person that did just the same.
Giga you will never change. Your "My IQ is higher than yours" attitude doesn\'t fit with your argument. Tell me, didn\'t Bush use the words "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" and tell me doesn\'t the word "has" imply that he does in fact have some?
If F9/11 had a story to sell. It sold it very well.
Please don\'t ask me to read "THE FACTS" because in reality those are "THE FACTS AS I SEE FIT"
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One question : Are you a fan of Rush, Giga? You seem like the type who calls in with the "I\'mmmm so madddd , at thoooseee damn Liberallslssss"... You know, the crazy stuck up Republican type.
;)
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OUCH!
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
One question : Are you a fan of Rush, Giga? You seem like the type who calls in with the "I\'mmmm so madddd , at thoooseee damn Liberallslssss"... You know, the crazy stuck up Republican type.
;)
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Please don\'t ask me to read "THE FACTS" because in reality those are "THE FACTS AS I SEE FIT"
But you\'re dillusioned and easily manipulated by the fat guy. Smart people see through Moore\'s lies. Unfortunately for you, you\'re about as sharp as a bowling ball.
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I\'m a Rush fan and I\'m proud of it.
Anyway, I saw the movie last night. It was way over the top but I expected that. Moore can lay it on with a trowel and his pure hatred for anything Bush is quite apparent and sometimes pretty funny.
The movie itself was entertaining but it will also make you sick. At least that\'s how felt after leaving it. It made me sick for a couple of of reasons. The family that lost a son in Iraq was heart wrenching but it started to feel like exploitation of this family and their tragedy. It was not fun to watch and he showed some footage that clearly shows the truth about war. Not that we need to see people blown up to know this.
Moore\'s need to turn GWB into the devil is also sickening to me. There is something very unsettling to me about the hatred for this man. I know he\'s not squeaky clean by any means but the lack of any respect for the office and the man there is just wrong to me. I can\'t put it in the right words to get my point across but I think you might know what I mean.
The funny thing is that Moore had some good questions in this movie about the connections that our leaders have to certain undesirables and the nepotism that exists. If he could see past his own bias he would make some very good movies that would make more people think rather than entrench themselves even further into there side.
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That is Moore\'s whole problem - his rabid hatred for Bush is too obvious in this work. This taints his work and destroys any shred of truth he may have had a valid point on.
The problem with certain people that watch this movie is that they are so willing to believe it. Especially those from certain social classes who seem to be easily manipulated - the poor, uneducated and those that read comic books and think capes on superheroes are cool tend to fall into this category ;) You don\'t like Bush or his policies, great - but at least be able to distinguish facts from propaganda.
No LIC, I rarely listen to Rush and if that was an attempt to make a joke at my expense, it was quite weak. Not quite as bad as your warped views of what is right and wrong though. ;)
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I think I was the only righty in the theater. By the end of the movie the natives were getting restless and I feared for my life.
Ok, Ok, that was a stretch and I could have probably kicked their asses, especially the old ladies sitting next to me. :)
It was kind of funny hearing the crowd, about twenty people, gasp and agree with Moore when he was just trashing GWB like a schoolyard bully making fun of some kid.
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If I would have seen it in the theater I would have wished a Sir Mystiq and LIC would have been sitting close to me. The police around here probably would helped me knock some sense into them. ;)
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HA...The poor and the uneducated. Well damn Mr. White man, I\'m sorry I didn\'t have the same opportunities that you did when I was a child, I\'m sorry my parents have a low-paying job but are now finally able to pull through, I\'m sorry that you\'re so in tune with your self greatness that you don\'t give a damn about others that don\'t have the same things you do.
I work and believe it or not I don\'t have a problem with the money that is being "stolen" to be used by the "lazy". That kind of mindset is a hypocrite in my opinion. Somebody that can live with that mind set is as unamerican as Laden wearing an American flag on his shirt.
You are either on the Bush bandwagon or the Moore bandwagon.
But because the ones on the Bush bandwagon aren\'t biased or brainwashed at all b/c lord help us the truth-loving Bush might ever tell a lie.
Giga your ego is too big. And believe it or not I\'m not as "uneducated" as you think. But if by "uneducated" you mean that I didn\'t graduate from the school of KKK then I guess I am.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
But you\'re dillusioned and easily manipulated by the fat guy. Smart people see through Moore\'s lies. Unfortunately for you, you\'re about as sharp as a bowling ball.
I see. And you know my intelligence how?
You\'re dillusioned and easily manipulated by money and a skinny guy in a tux, what\'s the difference?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
HA...The poor and the uneducated. Well damn Mr. White man, I\'m sorry I didn\'t have the same opportunities that you did when I was a child, I\'m sorry my parents have a low-paying job but are now finally able to pull through, I\'m sorry that you\'re so in tune with your self greatness that you don\'t give a damn about others that don\'t have the same things you do.
I work and believe it or not I don\'t have a problem with the money that is being "stolen" to be used by the "lazy". Giga your ego is too big. And believe it or not I\'m not as "uneducated" as you think. But if by "uneducated" you mean that I didn\'t graduate from the school of KKK then I guess I am.
Don\'t you and your extended family live in a 2 bedroom 800 sq ft apartment? That would explain why you don\'t mind sharing your "wealth" :p Yes, its true I am great so there! ;)
When you were a child? You still are one. Will you be voting in this election? I could of sworn you had to be 18 to do so. Also don\'t ramble on about your "missed" opportunities because you have a lot more than I had at your age.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I see. And you know my intelligence how?
You\'re dillusioned and easily manipulated by money and a skinny guy in a tux, what\'s the difference?
I\'m not as easily fooled as you are. And I know you aren\'t that smart based on a lot of our past debates where I had to school you on a few things you SHOULD have known but didn\'t.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
I\'m not as easily fooled as you are. And I know you aren\'t that smart based on a lot of our past debates where I had to school you on a few things you SHOULD have known but didn\'t.
:laughing: Yes I remember those. I am a bit punchy today from lack of sleep. Went to the Braves - Expos game last night. The coolest thing that happened was a foul ball almost hit my wife! jk of course! ;)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
:laughing: Yes I remember those. I am a bit punchy today from lack of sleep. Went to the Braves - Expos game last night. The coolest thing that happened was a foul ball almost hit my wife! jk of course! ;)
We both contributed to his increase in IQ level, remember? :D
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Moore\'s need to turn GWB into the devil is also sickening to me. There is something very unsettling to me about the hatred for this man. I know he\'s not squeaky clean by any means but the lack of any respect for the office and the man there is just wrong to me. I can\'t put it in the right words to get my point across but I think you might know what I mean.
I have zero respect for our current President or Adminstration. Fact is, if Bush was to say come ill and have to leave office , I would be a happy person. Fact is, I have a strong hatred for George W. Bush. But I also don\'t worship at the house of Moore. The documentry was flawed, but entertaining (even more so if you are already Anti-Bush!).
And Giga - the Rush comment was just a joke. Not at anyones expensive, it was just a joke. ;)
(Oh - and I don\'t see how race got into this topic at all..-shrugs-)
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
I have zero respect for our current President or Adminstration. Fact is, if Bush was to say come ill and have to leave office , I would be a happy person. Fact is, I have a strong hatred for George W. Bush. But I also don\'t worship at the house of Moore. The documentry was flawed, but entertaining (even more so if you are already Anti-Bush!).
And Giga - the Rush comment was just a joke. Not at anyones expensive, it was just a joke. ;)
(Oh - and I don\'t see how race got into this topic at all..-shrugs-)
No problem man, I am a bit more irritatable than usual today due to lack of sleep. ;)
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It\'s fine, Giga. While we disagree, it is simply in my nature to throw a few jokes / insults the way, tho\' they are not meant to be personal.
Oh and Ace - you\'re a fan of Rush, eh? Well, Rush is the Michael Moore of Republican\'s.
:)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Don\'t you and your extended family live in a 2 bedroom 800 sq ft apartment? That would explain why you don\'t mind sharing your "wealth" :p Yes, its true I am great so there! ;)
When you were a child? You still are one. Will you be voting in this election? I could of sworn you had to be 18 to do so. Also don\'t ramble on about your "missed" opportunities because you have a lot more than I had at your age.
Yeah I\'m not lucky enough to own a trailer park home and have a wife that is twice as big as I am.
Yes, I\'m pretty sure that growing up in Mexico allowed for more opportunities that growing up here.
Gman I really don\'t think you are smarter than me. You can "school" me all you want, I\'m pretty sure that I\'ve spent enough time trying to make somebody look stupid online by researching it then you probably wouln\'t be saying that.
And Giga, you don\'t know my IQ or intelligence either. I just don\'t like to prove you wrong unless I have to, and if I do, you\'re exagerated self-confidence won\'t let you accept it so in reality you are always right in yourmind about your opinions.
Conservatives are just about as Anti-American as one can get.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Conservatives are just about as Anti-American as one can get.
^ This is why people consider you ignorant and misinformed.
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All generalizations are wrong. Painting with such a big brush must make your arm hurt.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
^ This is why people consider you ignorant and misinformed.
^^
People that share the same views as you perhaps.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
^^
People that share the same views as you perhaps.
Even staunch liberals don\'t call conservatives un-american, you\'re just not all here. Hopefully you get it all together before you start voting in 5 years.
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I think the general thing is, we all want what is best for the country - what is best for us , but we all have different opinions on exactly what that is.
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Originally posted by Bozco
Even staunch liberals don\'t call conservatives un-american, you\'re just not all here. Hopefully you get it all together before you start voting in 5 years.
I know dude, I was just pissed b/c I had just gotten home from some Christian Pro-Bush B.S. Who would of thought that a group of kids that get together to worship their God would have to listen to 90% of how much Democrats and liberals are "un-patriotic" and "anti-Christian" and that Republicans do "God\'s work" and that Bush is "God\'s chosen one" I went to pick up my girlfried...but nooo turns out it started an hour late...so I was there just in time to be there. Wow.
Please with B.S. like that how can I help not being anti-Christian.
I know it\'s all about views and just because Gman has opposite views doesn\'t mean he\'s a dumbass. It\'s just not fun arguing like that :)
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Haha, of course it\'s no fun to be nice. Thats why when making my point I go on to make fun of you for being a year or two younger than me. :)
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The worst thing about this movie is that I know people that will be convinced that Bush is evil, the war is wrong and that all of this was only to make the Bushies more rich.
I don\'t mind if people think that, but if they\'re going to, don\'t let it be because of this movie. Whilst I disagree with the war, and what I know of Bush\'s administration I can\'t really agree with a lot of the movie, and a lot of it left me sitting there a little baffled. Particularly parts that I knew were false before going in there. I just know I\'m going to be arguing in a pro-Bush manner to these people, and that\'s a fight I really don\'t want to be fighting! :)
I did think the movie was very funny, though.
"...now watch me hit this drive."
"There\'s an old saying in Tennessee. Well I know it\'s in Texas, so I think it\'s in Tennessee. Fool me once.. and it\'s.. you.. shame on you. Fool me... you won\'t fool me a second time."
Bwahaha. :laughing: Well worth my money. :)
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He\'s certainly not a smooth talker and I find that stuff pretty damn funny too but he is not the devil as Moore would like us to believe.
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I think that that\'s were people can draw the line when it comes to this movie. Moore\'s impression of Bush, Ace you say that Moore made him seem like the devil and to me that is taking it to an extreme. The film in my opinion never presented a form of hatred or anger but more of disgust and heavy dissaproval of what Bush is doing. Moore didn\'t make Bush seem "evil" he just painted Bush as a monely loving, brainless and confused Republican.
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I find people who are against Moore and his movie in fact use the same tactics in describing Moore and his movie that they are criticising him for.
Moore\'s stretching the truth and presenting his side of the story to get his point across is similar to, say.. GigaShadow saying this: "George W. Bush knew a guy, who knew a guy, who stood next to a guy on an elevator, who happened to be the husband of a girl whose cousin was dating this really, really fat man, who worked with a guy who was related to...". And yes Giga, I know it\'s called hyperbole but the point still stands.
I\'ve seen many people criticise the movie in a similar manner (on that particular point and others, albeit in a far less flippant way) and it\'s really just as frustrating as Moore\'s stretching the facts.
At some points he does try and portray Bush as a man with ill-intentions. Not evil as such, but as a man who became president not to change the country, but to make more money for himself. These are the portions of the movie I find hardest to swallow. For the most part, however, he portray Bush as a clumsy fool who doesn\'t quite know what he\'s doing. Or rather, shows footage of Bush being a clumsy fool who doesn\'t quite know what he\'s doing. ;)
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Some of it is not even stretching the truth but not the truth at all.
As a matter of fact, I would say calling it stretching the truth is just a way to make you feel better about spreading a lie.
When I say you I mean in the general sense.
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Interesting side note:
Linda Ronstadt was booed off a stage in Vegas for telling everyone to go see F911:
Before singing "Desperado" for an encore Saturday night, the 58-year-old rocker called Moore a "great American patriot" and "someone who is spreading the truth." She also encouraged everybody to see the documentary about President Bush (search).
Ronstadt\'s comments drew loud boos and some of the 4,500 people in attendance stormed out of the theater. People also tore down concert posters and tossed cocktails into the air.
"It was a very ugly scene," Aladdin President Bill Timmins told The Associated Press. "She praised him and all of a sudden all bedlam broke loose."
Timmins, who is British and was watching the show, decided Ronstadt had to go — for good. Timmins said he didn\'t allow Ronstadt back in her luxury suite and she was escorted off the property.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126222,00.html
This is just another case in point that shows how uninformed most celebrities as well as some average citizens are. They see it on screen so it must be true. Moore as "someone who is spreading the truth", that is rich :rolleyes:
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I was gonna post that yesterday but I\'m already on Cored\'s bad side as it is over that fat white liar, Michael Moore. :p
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And before Miss Tiq gets her panties in a bunch about Free Speech, this has nothing to do with Free Speech. Free Speech is more in regards to the Gov\'t not being able suppress or abridge the press or an individual\'s freedom to express.
This situation is more like the hotel hired Linda to entertain the guests but ended up pissing them off with her political rant. So Linda got the boot! :D
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Interesting side note:
Linda Ronstadt was booed off a stage in Vegas for telling everyone to go see F911:
Before singing "Desperado" for an encore Saturday night, the 58-year-old rocker called Moore a "great American patriot" and "someone who is spreading the truth." She also encouraged everybody to see the documentary about President Bush (search).
Ronstadt\'s comments drew loud boos and some of the 4,500 people in attendance stormed out of the theater. People also tore down concert posters and tossed cocktails into the air.
"It was a very ugly scene," Aladdin President Bill Timmins told The Associated Press. "She praised him and all of a sudden all bedlam broke loose."
Timmins, who is British and was watching the show, decided Ronstadt had to go — for good. Timmins said he didn\'t allow Ronstadt back in her luxury suite and she was escorted off the property.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126222,00.html
This is just another case in point that shows how uninformed most celebrities as well as some average citizens are. They see it on screen so it must be true. Moore as "someone who is spreading the truth", that is rich :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
If it doesn\'t comes from Bush\'s mouth it isn\'t true.
:rollseyes:
If Giga doesn\'t believe it, it must not be true.
:rollseyes:
Gman is probably just trying to get on Giga\'s good side.
:rollseyes:
:rollseyes: :rollseyes: :rollseyes:
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I just read about this, this morning. Im glad she knew what the consequences would be. She did it intentionally. Obviously it was the first time she tried it. If she didnt expect that to happen then she would be pretty stupid. Ive been thinking recently how torn we can be, as a country, just over whether youre a republican or a democrat.
Ive heard people hesitate to let somebody marry somebody if they are of the opposite party. Its pretty sad. By labeling ourselves it creates controversy. This is true in any form of labeling usually. I know it serves a purpose but people take things so damn seriously that its not even funny.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
:rolleyes:
If it doesn\'t comes from Bush\'s mouth it isn\'t true.
:rolleyes:
If Giga doesn\'t believe it, it must not be true.
:rollseyes:
Gman is probably just trying to get on Giga\'s good side.
You have a very weak logic there.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
:rolleyes:
If it doesn\'t comes from Bush\'s mouth it isn\'t true.
:rolleyes:
If Giga doesn\'t believe it, it must not be true.
:rollseyes:
Gman is probably just trying to get on Giga\'s good side.
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
WTF? Are you off your meds? :rolleyes:
What does that have to with Linda Ronstadt getting the boot from a Vegas show?
Gman - her political leanings don\'t really surprise me - after all she had the hots for Jerry Brown, but to say MM speaks the truth :laughing:
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Hey Giga, did you laugh at all throughout the movie?
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
WTF? Are you off your meds? :rolleyes:
What does that have to with Linda Ronstadt getting the boot from a Vegas show?
Gman - her political leanings don\'t really surprise me - after all she had the hots for Jerry Brown, but to say MM speaks the truth :laughing:
Nothing really, just that comment you made about her being uninformed people are because they don\'t see things your way.
Gman give it up.
I\'ve heard people call Moore "UnAmerican" and liberals or anti-Bush "UnAmerican" to me that\'s the biggest sign of brainwashing, so deep into the Bush bandwagon that they can\'t stand opposite views, b/c in their opinion Bush did good by attacking Iraq and capturing Saddam and capturing the mass murderer Bin Laden....wait he hasn\'t. Oops, I forgot Bin Laden is a thing of the past until he strikes again.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Gman give it up.
Give what up? Coz I embarrass you here for not being that sharp?
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Mystiq, do me a favor, drop it. You are only making us liberals look bad.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Mystiq, do me a favor, drop it. You are only making us liberals look bad.
Don\'t worry, you liberals don\'t need help in that department. ;)
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Originally posted by Ace
Don\'t worry, you liberals don\'t need help in that department. ;)
Don\'t you have some Rush to listen to, Ace?
;)
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In two minutes. :)
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Nothing really, just that comment you made about her being uninformed people are because they don\'t see things your way.
Gman give it up.
I\'ve heard people call Moore "UnAmerican" and liberals or anti-Bush "UnAmerican" to me that\'s the biggest sign of brainwashing, so deep into the Bush bandwagon that they can\'t stand opposite views, b/c in their opinion Bush did good by attacking Iraq and capturing Saddam and capturing the mass murderer Bin Laden....wait he hasn\'t. Oops, I forgot Bin Laden is a thing of the past until he strikes again.
I bet you that Bin Laden will be captured mid to end of October
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Mystiq, do me a favor, drop it. You are only making us liberals look bad.
Please I don\'t have to fix my way of expression in order to please some conservatives, you\'re the ones that make liberals look bad, you would of probably have done nothing about Bush being elected in 2000 when all the Democrats just sat by and watched it happen.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Give what up? Coz I embarrass you here for not being that sharp?
Not really, b/c you seem to want to embarrass me in order to make yourself feel better. Who in their right mind would get embarrassed for something somebody else said online?
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Hey Giga, did you laugh at all throughout the movie?
The image of the vampire rising from the grave was pretty funny... other than that... not really.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Not really, b/c you seem to want to embarrass me in order to make yourself feel better. Who in their right mind would get embarrassed for something somebody else said online?
You embarrass yourself and I just point at you and say "Look everybody! He said something stupid!"
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And everybody turns and gazes into a computer screen and realizes that Gman is a superb human being
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Both of you knock it off and keep it on topic - you have bickered enough.
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Moore is a liar and a hypocrite! :p
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That he is! ;)
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Moore is a liar and a hypocrite! :p
So is GigaShadow!
:p
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So are liberals!
:p
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Originally posted by Titan
So are liberals!
:p
?
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Moore is a liar and a hypocrite! :p
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
So is GigaShadow!
:p
Originally posted by Titan
So are liberals!
:p
Answer your question mystiq? :stick:
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Originally posted by Titan
Answer your question mystiq? :stick:
?!
...haha...I was just trying to say that "liberals" doesn\'t fit on the pattern. They all mentioned specific people and you just mentioned a group. In other words...YOU KILLED IT!
So are conservatives!
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It was more or less a cheap shot....a very cheap shot to LIC dum dum :p