PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: CJ85 on July 10, 2004, 12:35:23 PM
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to Miami for Odom, Grant and Butler. I think this is a crappy trade for LA. How do you trade the most dominant player in the NBA and not get at least Miami\'s best player back? I think they could get a better deal elsewhere.
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Man... words cannot describe my level of disappointment.
I guess the Lakers were really desperate to get Shaq in the East.
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Why would the Lakers want Shaq in the east?
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Spurs are gonna kick ass next year...
look who they just picked up: Brent Barry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3017)
They have no weaknesses anymore
The main contenders for Shaq were Sacramento and Dallas, 2 big rivals for the Lakers so they really dont want to send him there.
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I\'m glad he didn\'t go to the Kings, and I\'m glad he\'s in the east, woot for me.
(thx, in the east he doesn\'t have the chance to kick the Lakers ass more than a couple of times a year, and he won\'t be competing against them in the playoffs except for in the finals possibly)
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Originally posted by theomen
he won\'t be competing against them in the playoffs except for in the finals possibly)
:laughing: Lakers in the finals next year?
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Originally posted by ViVi
:laughing: Lakers in the finals next year?
They still have Kobe!
(Yes, Kobe will resign.)
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Kobe will resign he was just dicking around everyone, including Shaq, because he wanted to make sure Shaq got traded and maybe and increase in money; which is what the Knicks wanted to offer him actually. That\'s rediculous, I\'m not a Kobe fan. A Knicks fan yes, but, I definitely would rather someone else over Kobe. In the end he\'s back in LA half-assing it for alot more than he\'s worth.
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This has to be the worst deal in history. I would have ask for dwayne, odom, grant, and a first round pick if I where the lakers.
Kobe is still my favorite player but man the lakers are going to suck next season.
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I don\'t like Kobe either. I was gettin worried he would come to San Antonio and **** everything up. Hes a chemistry killer.
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Briant grant has done nothing but been a waste of a contract.
They should have asked for jones instead he may be 33 but he is much better than grant.
I hope shaq the big cry baby never wins again.
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Originally posted by ViVi
I don\'t like Kobe either. I was gettin worried he would come to San Antonio and **** everything up. Hes a chemistry killer.
Right in the poop shoot.
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Lakers won\'t be in the finals, nor will the Heat, I was just saying that is the only way they meet up in the playoffs
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I don\'t see how it could be THAT bad for the Lakers. Shaq isn\'t gonna be around for another 5 years unlike the other guys hes getting traded for.
Grant is a hard worker, he won\'t score the points Shaq does but hes a decent rebounder. Caron Butler still has a lot of potential and Lamar Odom can be dominate if he actually tries hard. Odom was unstoppable at times against the Pacers in the playoffs. In the long run the Lakers will be better off because Kobe won\'t be feuding with these guys like he was with Shaq. Also the Lakers add a little depth to the lineup. They\'ll have either Butler, Malone, or Odom off the bench. Not too bad.
The Heat however get an older Shaq with a huge contract. They don\'t have a very good bench and lost one of their better bench players earlier this week when Toronto signed Rafer Alston. The Heat starting lineup won\'t look as good as LA\'s. They\'ll have Shaq, Jones, and Wade. Thats it. LA will have Grant, Malone, Odom, Kobe, Payton and Butler probably off the bench.
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I dont know much about salaries caps in the NBA, but since Ginobli just took a 8.5 million chunk out of the Spurs cap how will they keep Tony Parker next year? They have no more space! But Im wondering if they can still give him a good salary because KG and Shaq have 28+million dollar salaries...
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Mid Level exception?
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I just read there is something called the Larry Bird exception that allows a team to re-sign its own free agent for any amount up to the maximum player salary. So its cool, Spurs will kick ass for years to come. :)
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Originally posted by unfocused
I don\'t see how it could be THAT bad for the Lakers. Shaq isn\'t gonna be around for another 5 years unlike the other guys hes getting traded for.
Grant is a hard worker, he won\'t score the points Shaq does but hes a decent rebounder. Caron Butler still has a lot of potential and Lamar Odom can be dominate if he actually tries hard. Odom was unstoppable at times against the Pacers in the playoffs. In the long run the Lakers will be better off because Kobe won\'t be feuding with these guys like he was with Shaq. Also the Lakers add a little depth to the lineup. They\'ll have either Butler, Malone, or Odom off the bench. Not too bad.
The Heat however get an older Shaq with a huge contract. They don\'t have a very good bench and lost one of their better bench players earlier this week when Toronto signed Rafer Alston. The Heat starting lineup won\'t look as good as LA\'s. They\'ll have Shaq, Jones, and Wade. Thats it. LA will have Grant, Malone, Odom, Kobe, Payton and Butler probably off the bench.
So are you saying shaq is all washed up?
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Shaq isn\'t washed up but he\'s definitely passed his pinnacle and on a decrescendo towards his retirement and the hall of fame. As long as his knees are good he still should be a dominant, strong player. As younger and more talented players fill up the rosters, though, he\'ll soon be too slow to stop the less than mediocre players.
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From various articles I\'ve read, I\'m not as angry as I once was... I mean if you look at the Lakers\' roster now, its pretty stacked. Nobody will replace Shaq, but I think the Lakers can definitely make the playoffs next year.
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Uh, Di, I\'d like to see a link where you saw that "stacked" roster.
Shaq would do juuuust fine in Miami. Despite the fact that he may be past his prime, he\'s still WAY better than any center in the Eastern Conference as far as an overall player. As for Kobe, he\'s a virus. He is the Terrell Owens of Basketball.
...No wonder you like him, Di ;)
See Yuz.
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Actually I have never really liked Terrell Owens. I wasn\'t complaining when he got touchdowns, but this previous season just really made me despise him. He asked for the ball, and couldn\'t catch it. Good riddance.
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So it\'s official: Shaq for Odom, Grant, and Butler and a 1st round pick.
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What if the Miami Heat moved to Las Vegas?
http://www.benmaller.com/archives/2004/july/12-las_vegas_heat.html
Freestylah still wouldn\'t like them. At least not until they get good. Then he\'ll support them.
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Actually the Heat have always been my favorite team in the East, and second favorite team all around. It would be awesome for this city if they came here... This place is just begging for a professional team.
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it will be interesting to see if a city like Ls Vegas could land a team in any pro sport.
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I would think it\'s busy enough. Is it even big enough to handle it?
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Vegas? They have a rather large population actually. Let alone the tourist population who are probably more likely to go to a game than the locals.
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I mean geographically, how big is LV?
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Financially Vegas could definitely support a team. The ONLY reason they don\'t have one right now is because all the major leagues are afraid to associate themselves with gambling.
Oh, and if the Shaq deal goes through, I think they are one of the best teams in the NBA, and a definite favorite in the east. The #4 team in the conference added Shaq without losing their best player. Amazing.
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Looks like Denver should kick some major ass for years to come, NJ pretty much can\'t match the offer sheet Den offered Kmart. A Front Line of Camby, Kmart, Carmelo and Nene (coming off the bench for a couple of years) should be pretty formidable, and having a good pg in Miller helps out and then Boykins off the bench. Add a defensive stopper SG and they\'d be a scary team.
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The shaq deal is done. I can\'t believe his wife went on the radio and talked about kobe and lakers. I mean I am not one of those pigs who thinks women should be seen and not heard. But man what has she done to even speak on anything.
I know she is the man\'s wife but please come on now.
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she\'s a "man wife", is that some kind of super hybred?
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Two questions.
A) What did she say?
2) Why does he have a wife?
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well at first she was just his babies mama, then he married the bitch
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Originally posted by theomen
well at first she was just his babies mama, then he married the bitch
it\'s cheaper to keep her! ;)
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For her sake, I hope she stays with him forever.
I\'m sure after his man meat for a while she ain\'t feeling a thing down there.
Oh, and one more thing, Kobe, you\'re a pussy.
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Looks like Kobe is staying a Laker, which is good because I didn\'t want to start hating another team.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Oh, and one more thing, Kobe, you\'re a pussy.
Kobe is gonna be pretty upset when he is browsing the forum and comes accross this.
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Swifdi, Lakers wont make it to the playoffs. But Im sad because I really wanted the Spurs to beat them horribly and make that little bitch Kobe cry again and ask for Shaq.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Swifdi, Lakers wont make it to the playoffs. But Im sad because I really wanted the Spurs to beat them horribly and make that little bitch Kobe cry again and ask for Shaq.
:rolleyes:
You do realize its not that hard to make the playoffs in the NBA?
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They\'ll make the playoffs, they\'re basically the Heat with a huge upgrade at the SG position. Also they\'re deeper than the Heat.
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But the Heat made it in the East, and wouldn\'t have in the West.
And many NBA experts are predicting the same thing, Di. It honestly wouldn\'t surprise me. I mean, you\'re a west team, and your center is Brian Grant?
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Brian Grant freaking owns.
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Here is why the Lakers wont make the playoffs:
A lot of teams in the west have secured a spot in the playoffs.
1) The Nuggets, K-mart has made them a contender now.
2) The Rockets, you know why
3) The Jazz, picked up Okur and Boozer
4) Spurs, Brent Barry can back up Parker and Ginobli and shoot 3\'s
5) Kings
6) T-wolves
The Mavs and have a better shot than the Lakers. Lakers lost Fisher (a big piece of the team imo) Karl Malone, SHAQ (Miami got the best of) and now the team is runned by Kobe. And then theres the Suns who I think we do well with Steve Nash.
And Brian Grant hardly owns, hes mediocre. And that is a huge hole left in the Lakers now.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Here is why the Lakers wont make the playoffs:
A lot of teams in the west have secured a spot in the playoffs.
1) The Nuggets, K-mart has made them a contender now.
2) The Rockets, you know why
3) The Jazz, picked up Okur and Boozer
4) Spurs, Brent Barry can back up Parker and Ginobli and shoot 3\'s
5) Kings
6) T-wolves
The Mavs and have a better shot than the Lakers. Lakers lost Fisher (a big piece of the team imo) Karl Malone, SHAQ (Miami got the best of) and now the team is runned by Kobe. And then theres the Suns who I think we do well with Steve Nash.
And Brian Grant hardly owns, hes mediocre. And that is a huge hole left in the Lakers now.
The rockets roster looks rather weak save t-mac and yao. The mavs look rather weak to me too. But I do agree the nuggest look good. As for the spurs I think berry is a step down from turk, but at least they got somebody who can still shoot. And there team is still basicly the same.
I am the number 1 kobe fan and I will say they can make a run for 7th or 8th. Man what a downgrade. Jazz failed to make the playoffs last season while boozer is decent okur is not much of force. So it will be interesting you never know what will happen.
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Turkoglu (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3415) vs. Barry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3017)
Hedo is Hedon\'t.... He choked in the playoffs big time, and the team had to pamper him to get his confidence up.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Turkoglu (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3415) vs. Barry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3017)
Hedo is Hedon\'t.... He choked in the playoffs big time, and the team had to pamper him to get his confidence up.
well I liked turk ever since he was with the kings. And I thought they should have never let him go. He fit well with the kings. He did not have his best season with spurs but I think he will do great with the magic.
Never cared much for berry. He will be good off the bench for them I guess.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
The rockets roster looks rather weak save t-mac and yao.
You left out the most valuable person of all on that team.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsportsmed.starwave.com%2Fi%2Fmagazine%2Fnew%2Fjeff_van_gundy.jpg&hash=01a5fa75912b3e64c44b12a82979d08e50df45c5)
Find me someone in basketball better at getting a lot out of little talent.
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Vlade Divac is headed to the Lakers. They still suck.
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Look what this dude has to say about the Spurs, even though hes a Lakers fan
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/040719
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Originally posted by ViVi
Look what this dude has to say about the Spurs, even though hes a Lakers fan
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/040719
You must be the ultimate spurs fan? While berry is a decent player he is not the massiah.
And he won\'t save the spurs. Like I said he will be good for that team but come on now you act as if they signed a superstar or something.
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The Spurs have a system. And when the system is complete you cant beat it, and Turkoglu left out his role of 3 point shooting during the playoffs. If the Spurs had just hit their 3\'s then the Lakers would have never gone past them and thats the truth. Also, they were lacking in a good backup point gaurd. BOOM. Brent Barry takes care of both of those.
System complete. ;)
And a team of superstars doesnt make a good team, its chemistry.
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I\'m sorry buddy but Brent Barry sucks. You\'re getting excited over nothing.
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What are you in this thread for Swifdi? The Lakers suck now so you dont have to be a fan anymore.
Arent you the person saying Brian Grant owns? :laughing:
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I was being sarcastic. But if you want honesty; I would rather have Grant on my squad than Barry.
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Lakers just signed Vlade Divac.
We\'re going to the playoffs.
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ugh....
Damn Vlade, oh well that just means more time for Brad Miller
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Divac is an idiot. He left Sacramento because he wanted to win, and went to the Lakers. Stupid, real stupid.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Divac is an idiot. He left Sacramento because he wanted to win, and went to the Lakers. Stupid, real stupid.
PG - Gary Payton
SG - Kobe Bryant
C - Vlade Divac
PF - Brian Grant
SF - Caron Butler
:shy:
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Man you just don\'t get it. The most dominant player in the game has left your team. You could say the man is getting old but it doesnt matter, he didnt show aging during the playoffs. And you think a roster of mediocre players and one superstar will change it? 2 of those guys are 35+. And im still baffled the Lakers want payton, did they forget his oppenents on the other teams were slaughtering him?
Not only did Shaq leave, but so did the Mailman, Derek Fisher and Phil-freakin-Jackson. I don\'t need to tell you what effect they had on the team.
Besides losing all those Lakers, the team never took a look at their weaknesses. Was the bench strengthened? Only for the centers... Defense? lost 2 important figures
Now lets talk about the new Lakers\' new competition.
Nuggets: picked up K-mart
Suns: picked up Nash
Houston: picked up the 2 time leading scorer
Jazz: young team gets older, and picks up Okur and Boozer
Spurs: young team gets older, and picks up a player to compensate for 2 weakness
So lets review. The Lakers lost the most dominant player and one of the most of all-time, lost Phil Jackson the coach with best winning % all-time, did not consult their weaknesses, and all this is happening when other teams are getting better.
You should be shy.
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Man I totally agree vivi is doing to much raving over brent barry when he is not that good. He is decent at best.
You know what the lakers don\'t look that bad and malone may return. Espn reported he was glad the lakers signed divac. And they say kobe and divac are pushing him to come back.
PG - Gary Payton
SG - Kobe Bryant
C - Vlade Divac
PF - malone
SF - odom
Not a bad starting five.
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Im not raving about Brent Barry, Im raving about the Spurs.
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I don\'t think Odom would play at SF... But if Malone stays, the Lakers will have so much depth coming off the bench.
Like I said, they will be a good team. They\'ll make the playoffs, easily.
Divac is one of the top 5 centers in the league, he\'s nothing compared to Shaq really, but he can at least shoot the ball outside the key. The Lakers won\'t be so concentrated down low.
I\'m sorry Vivi, but you are raving about Brent Barry. You think that he is like the holy grail and the missing piece to the Spurs\' puzzle.
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He is the missing piece. And you might not believe it but Marc Stein does, and so does Lakers fanboy Eric Neel.
Both Ginobli and Parker are going to be better this year, especially Parker. You can quote me and save it to shove it in my face if you think im wrong. But since Hedon
t left Ginobli can finally start. When Ginobli or Parker needs to sit, guess who comes out. When we are forced to shoot 3\'s (Lakers Spurs series), you wont want us to.
I think hes the missing piece because Parker has exploded into one hell of a PG, as seen in the playoffs. Spurs were unstoppable until they were pushed to shoot 3\'s and thats when Hedon\'t choked. Get it?
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Originally posted by SwifDi
I don\'t think Odom would play at SF... But if Malone stays, the Lakers will have so much depth coming off the bench.
Like I said, they will be a good team. They\'ll make the playoffs, easily.
Divac is one of the top 5 centers in the league, he\'s nothing compared to Shaq really, but he can at least shoot the ball outside the key. The Lakers won\'t be so concentrated down low.
I\'m sorry Vivi, but you are raving about Brent Barry. You think that he is like the holy grail and the missing piece to the Spurs\' puzzle.
Well odoms true position is small forward and they already said if malone comes back they will move him to small forward and butler and grant will come off the bench.
And vivi you were raving about barry. I think the lakers will be a top team in the west if malone comes back. There bench will be better than it has been in years.
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Originally posted by ViVi
He is the missing piece. And you might not believe it but Marc Stein does, and so does Lakers fanboy Eric Neel.
The missing piece to what? Please explain you talk about defense were was the spurs defense against the lakers?
I have always thought the spurs was overrated. They are a good team but they are not as good as ppl thought. up 2-0 and choke.
I don\'t think they will come out of the west next season.
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Read the rest of my post. And what do you mean what defense?! :laughing: I remember the last 2 games being under 80\'s. And we know it wasnt the Lakers doin it.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Read the rest of my post. And what do you mean what defense?! :laughing: I remember the last 2 games being under 80\'s. And we know it wasnt the Lakers doin it.
Nope buddy one game was under 80 when fisher hit the wild shot at the buzer. The second game the lakers won by 12 88-76
If u wanna see defense check out the pistons vs laker. They held la to 68 points ouch........
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Ah hell I\'ll say it again. Remember the Spurs entering the playoffs in a 12 game win streak, and then sweeping the Grizzlies? Then appearing to sweep the Lakers too? It all stopped when the Spurs were forced to shoot outside. We kept missin the threes and they Lakers relied on that to win. We got Hedo to take care of that problem, just like Kerr was to us last time. Now we have picked up a Steve Kerr like player, except this one is younger and can back up the gaurds.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Nope buddy one game was under 80 when fisher hit the wild shot at the buzer. The second game the lakers won by 12 88-76
If u wanna see defense check out the pistons vs laker. They held la to 68 points ouch........
Oh jesus... thats still a low scoring game.
And in case you didnt know, the spurs tied Detroit for points allowed that year.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Ah hell I\'ll say it again. Remember the Spurs entering the playoffs in a 12 game win streak, and then sweeping the Grizzlies? Then appearing to sweep the Lakers too? It all stopped when the Spurs were forced to shoot outside. We kept missin the threes and they Lakers relied on that to win. We got Hedo to take care of that problem, just like Kerr was to us last time. Now we have picked up a Steve Kerr like player, except this one is younger and can back up the gaurds.
Are you serious? Do you think 3\'s was the reason they lost?
:laughing: you are a die hard spurs fan if you believe that.
The spurs choked. Parker was shut down. And duncan could not carry the load.
The lakers did not double team duncan a lot. Forcing there other guys to make plays. When there best play maker is duncan. I never liked tony parker. PPl were hyping him up because the first two games he played good.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Oh jesus... thats still a low scoring game.
And in case you didnt know, the spurs tied Detroit for points allowed that year.
I am not talkin season I am talking post season which is what every major sport boils down to. In the post season we find who has it and who does not.
The spurs did not have it. Piston had much better D throughtout the playoffs than your purrrrrrrrs.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Are you serious? Do you think 3\'s was the reason they lost?
:laughing: you are a die hard spurs fan if you believe that.
The spurs choked. Parker was shut down. And duncan could not carry the load.
The lakers did not double team duncan a lot. Forcing there other guys to make plays. When there best play maker is duncan. I never liked tony parker. PPl were hyping him up because the first to games he played good.
Yeah Im a die hard Spurs fan. But I know basketball, and obviously you don\'t because thats what happened. I know Im right because a lot of ESPN writers see the same, even the writers that like the Lakers. Thats all I have to say about it, because thats all there is to say.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Yeah Im a die hard Spurs fan. But I know basketball, and obviously you don\'t because thats what happened. I know Im right because a lot of ESPN writers see the same, even the writers that like the Lakers. Thats all I have to say about it, because thats all there is to say.
"We kept missin the threes and they Lakers relied on that to win"
Do you know the same thing happen to kings 2 years ago?
Man those teams that rely on 3\'s to win game:stick:
alert "quote of the week"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know Im right because a lot of ESPN writers see the same:rolleyes:
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You just don\'t like the fact the Spurs will smother the Lakers, and wont accept it :p
The Kings series was completely different from the spurs.
Come one guys I cant keep arguing with these Lakers fans. Where is shockwaves and PSXJ
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Originally posted by QuDDus
alert "quote of the week"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know Im right because a lot of ESPN writers see the same:rolleyes:
So you think your opinion is more credibal than ESPN writers?
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Originally posted by ViVi
So you think your opinion is more credibal than ESPN writers?
LoL you think your opinion is less credibal because you don\'t write for espn?
Opinions are nothing but other ppls point of view. Working for espn does not make them right or better than you. A lot of those guys have know clue what they are talking about have the time anyways. Writers can get lazy jump on it and take others ideas instead of using their own.
It\'s true you may have a little more respect for what they say but that it\'s.
You think highly of the spurs you should think more highly of yourself.
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First of all, the whole ESPN thing is stupid. If you want to site the credibility of something someone else says, you have to site who it is. ESPN is an entertainment sports network, therefor there are people there for both parts. If it were baseball for example, I wouldn\'t listen to a thing someone like Bill Simmons says, much less use it as something credible. Peter Gammons however prolly knows more about the game than anyone here. Doesn\'t make what he says certain, but I\'d trust him over either of you for sure.
As for the Lakers, they make the playoffs. And that starting roster, or at least how the playing time will look, whether Malone returns or not, will be like this:
C: Divac
PF: Odom
SF: Butler
SG: Kobe
PG: Payton
These are the western playoff teams, as of right now, in my opinion: Spurs, Wolves, Kings, Nuggets, Rockets, Lakers, Grizzlies, and then Mavs/Jazz/Suns compete for the last spot. The Suns could go either way. If Nash can get the team involved better, and Amare takes his game to a new level in his 3rd season, this team is good. Then again, it could also be one of the worst teams in the NBA just adding one extra player. The Mavs...I wanna see what they do at PG. I\'d pick them right now as the #8 team, because I think Cuban will go out and get something done. There are a lot of rumors right now that have him bringing in Vince Carter, which would be interesting. But who do they put at the PG? Stackhouse? We\'ll see.
The Lakers...they are A LOT better than a lot of people are giving them credit for, because everyone seems to be overlooking what they got for Shaq. Brian Grant...that\'s the one thing I really don\'t understand on their end. He has a huge contract that goes for a while and is definitely nothing special. Odom, however, in just one year in Miami became a true impact player. Let\'s not forget, Miami gave the Pacers a pretty good run for their money last year in the playoffs, and the core of that team minus Wagner is now on the Lakers with Divac, Payton, possibly Malone, and Kobe added to it.
I also do like the Rudy T hiring. He is a good coach, and he manages players a lot better than Jackson, a coach I really think is more overrated than any in this era. Butler I feel is a little overrated, but he could be something. Whoever feels he makes the starting lineup over Odom is crazy though. Personally though, after the year Malone had last year, I\'d want him coming off the bench this year, should he be back. That gives them a very nice bench with Malone and Grant backing up the front court.
Basically, as I see it, the Lakers season hinges on three things.
1. Can Kobe be a team player, or will the fact that he basically runs this team\'s decisions ruin the team chemistry, cause him to not respect what Rudy T tells him, and basically destroy the Lakers chances of being a team?
2. Can Odom build on last season, or will he revert to how he was his last couple years with the Clippers now that he is back in LA. If there are problems within the team, that is quite possible, and that would kill the Lakers.
3. Can Payton provide solid PG play, or will he continue to deteriorate as he did last year?
If the Lakers can give positive answers to all three of those questions, they are a solid team that might even make it out of the first round.
And yes, the Heat are better than the Lakers right now. They have a much better shot at a title. And Shaq\'s big toe alone is worth more than Kobe.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
And yes, the Heat are better than the Lakers right now. They have a much better shot at a title. And Shaq\'s big toe alone is worth more than Kobe.
The heat right now don\'t have a shot getting past the pistons. Beyond shaq there front court is garbage. They have no bench.
And we all know shaq can\'t be called on in the fourth quater.
He will miss kobe.
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And Kobe won\'t miss Shaq?
As for Tony\'s comments, I\'d have to agree with the Caron Butler statement. The man got all of his credibility in the, what was it, 2002 NCAA Tournament with UConn? He\'s not that great, but he could very well be a solid player...but it will depend on if he listens to team president/star Kobe Bryant.
The team itself doesn\'t look bad, but Kobe\'s leadership skills leave something to be desired. Imagine the night where Lamar Odom actually starts shooting the ball, and *gasp* takes more shots than Kobe. That\'s going to be an ugly sight.
As for the Mavs, how can Vince Carter possibly help that team? He won\'t be the focal point of the team, and he\'s not even a true Point Guard. If that Mavs team is going anywhere, Dirk and Steve Finley are going to have to step up their game, and they\'re goona have to find a point guard from SOMEWHERE. I believe the Mavs did get Devin Harris with that Draft Day trade for the #5 pick, did they not? He\'d be suitable at the PG position, but I still think he should have stayed at Wisconsin for another year.
Since the playoffs are pretty easy to make as it is, the Lakers shouldn\'t have a problem making them. What WILL be the problem is when they get wiped up by the Spurs or the Kings in the 1st round.
As for the East, it\'s fairly simple. The Pistons are still the best team in that conference, and of course, the Heat now have a great shot at dethroning them, but they\'ll play seocnd fiddle for the most part. Pacers are most likely goona come in 3rd, but again, have not added enough parts to make a huge leap, unlike the Heat, obviously. What\'s going to interesting is to see how far the Nets drop without K-Mart on the roster. Why they traded him, I have no clue...but in my opinion, that could be a disastrous move.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
And Kobe won\'t miss Shaq?
As for Tony\'s comments, I\'d have to agree with the Caron Butler statement. The man got all of his credibility in the, what was it, 2002 NCAA Tournament with UConn? He\'s not that great, but he could very well be a solid player...but it will depend on if he listens to team president/star Kobe Bryant.
The team itself doesn\'t look bad, but Kobe\'s leadership skills leave something to be desired. Imagine the night where Lamar Odom actually starts shooting the ball, and *gasp* takes more shots than Kobe. That\'s going to be an ugly sight.
As for the Mavs, how can Vince Carter possibly help that team? He won\'t be the focal point of the team, and he\'s not even a true Point Guard. If that Mavs team is going anywhere, Dirk and Steve Finley are going to have to step up their game, and they\'re goona have to find a point guard from SOMEWHERE. I believe the Mavs did get Devin Harris with that Draft Day trade for the #5 pick, did they not? He\'d be suitable at the PG position, but I still think he should have stayed at Wisconsin for another year.
Since the playoffs are pretty easy to make as it is, the Lakers shouldn\'t have a problem making them. What WILL be the problem is when they get wiped up by the Spurs or the Kings in the 1st round.
As for the East, it\'s fairly simple. The Pistons are still the best team in that conference, and of course, the Heat now have a great shot at dethroning them, but they\'ll play seocnd fiddle for the most part. Pacers are most likely goona come in 3rd, but again, have not added enough parts to make a huge leap, unlike the Heat, obviously. What\'s going to interesting is to see how far the Nets drop without K-Mart on the roster. Why they traded him, I have no clue...but in my opinion, that could be a disastrous move.
See Yuz.
First of all I will say that a lot you guys are nothing but haters. Kobe will show you all that he can lead and team an win.
Second I am a little confused. You think Vince carter is on the mavs? And the mavs don\'t have steve nash anymore.
The mavs are done. Dirk is a good player but he cannot lead a team. They will never make it to the finals. They had the chance to get shaq and blew it.
The nets traded K-mart because the nuggest offered him a massive contract and the nets did not want to match it. I don\'t think the guy is worth all those millions. What did he get like 98million? The superising thing about the nets is they offered to trade k-mart for boozer once before, but when boozer was a free agent they never went after him. Knowing they did not want to spend a large sum on k-mart.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
First of all I will say that a lot you guys are nothing but haters. Kobe will show you all that he can lead and team an win.
There\'s a difference between being a hater and being critical when criticism is due. I praise more players than I put down by a lot. But the fact is, Kobe has made LA one of the most chaotic places in the NBA single handedly, and he has shown a pattern of disruptive behavior that has only gotten worse.
Second I am a little confused. You think Vince carter is on the mavs? And the mavs don\'t have steve nash anymore.
The mavs are done. Dirk is a good player but he cannot lead a team. They will never make it to the finals. They had the chance to get shaq and blew it.
Vince Carter is on the Raptors, no one said otherwise. However, there\'s a lot of talk about him being traded to the Mavs. We know they don\'t have Nash. I don\'t think they are out of the playoffs yet though, they have too much talent still.
Originally posted by ROL Jamas
As for the Mavs, how can Vince Carter possibly help that team? He won\'t be the focal point of the team, and he\'s not even a true Point Guard. If that Mavs team is going anywhere, Dirk and Steve Finley are going to have to step up their game, and they\'re goona have to find a point guard from SOMEWHERE. I believe the Mavs did get Devin Harris with that Draft Day trade for the #5 pick, did they not? He\'d be suitable at the PG position, but I still think he should have stayed at Wisconsin for another year.
Truth with Harris, plus they picked up Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference phenom Luis Flores. I think they\'ll be alright.
And as for how Carter helps...all the rumors have them giving for him is Walker. Who would you rather have? Who fits the team better?
Originally posted by QuDDus
The heat right now don\'t have a shot getting past the pistons. Beyond shaq there front court is garbage. They have no bench.
And we all know shaq can\'t be called on in the fourth quater.
He will miss kobe.
Don\'t have a shot? Please, you have no idea what you\'re talking about if you say that. Shaq will be better this year in a better situation with a coach who actually knows how to use him.
And I\'m gonna make a prediction right now. Shaq not only won\'t miss Kobe, but Wade will be BETTER for him. With Kobe, everything was about Kobe. Wade will literally change his game for Shaq if it helps the team, and that is going to be huge. Add in Eddie Jones bombing it from the outside, including when they need clutch shots (people forget, he did lead this team in scoring), and they more than have a shot. To say they don\'t is stupid, and makes you look stupid. Especially this long before the season even gets underway. You are so clearly and laughably biased that it almost makes me want to discount what you say before reading it if it has to word Pistons in it.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
There\'s a difference between being a hater and being critical when criticism is due. I praise more players than I put down by a lot. But the fact is, Kobe has made LA one of the most chaotic places in the NBA single handedly, and he has shown a pattern of disruptive behavior that has only gotten worse.
Vince Carter is on the Raptors, no one said otherwise. However, there\'s a lot of talk about him being traded to the Mavs. We know they don\'t have Nash. I don\'t think they are out of the playoffs yet though, they have too much talent still.
Truth with Harris, plus they picked up Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference phenom Luis Flores. I think they\'ll be alright.
And as for how Carter helps...all the rumors have them giving for him is Walker. Who would you rather have? Who fits the team better?
Don\'t have a shot? Please, you have no idea what you\'re talking about if you say that. Shaq will be better this year in a better situation with a coach who actually knows how to use him.
And I\'m gonna make a prediction right now. Shaq not only won\'t miss Kobe, but Wade will be BETTER for him. With Kobe, everything was about Kobe. Wade will literally change his game for Shaq if it helps the team, and that is going to be huge. Add in Eddie Jones bombing it from the outside, including when they need clutch shots (people forget, he did lead this team in scoring), and they more than have a shot. To say they don\'t is stupid, and makes you look stupid. Especially this long before the season even gets underway. You are so clearly and laughably biased that it almost makes me want to discount what you say before reading it if it has to word Pistons in it.
You have the nerve to call me bias? The way you spit venom on kobe bryant. It seems like you have a personal grudge against the man. You have no idea what your talking about. Your clueless. You think all the chaos in LA was all kobe. Obviously you have never picked up a magazine or read any interviews because you have no idea how of an ego monster shaq is. And thus no idea what your talking about.
If you read some of the things shaq has said and some of the things other players have said about him. Like Robert horray for example then you would see that it\'s not just kobe. I am not saying kobe does not have an ego. Because I have not seen a superstar player in any sport that does not have an ego. But to put the blame all on kobe shoulders is just wrong.
And if you think the heat are better than the pistons you obviously have no clue what your talking about. It\'s almost comical what your saving. I had to step back from the computer on that one. The heat right now are not better than the lakers where last season and that team got killed by the pistons.
The heat have nobody on the team equal to level of greatness as kobe. Shaq cannot be called on in the foruth quater and if you think eddie jones is mr.clutch well your very naive.
And for the record: there are rumors of him wanting to be traded OMG you think they will let vince go for walker?
Only how I see them getting carter is by adding devin harris to a possible trade. With walker and somebody else. The rapters won\'t let vince go for the likes of walker. OMG
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Speaking of comical...let me take this piece by piece here.
Originally posted by QuDDus
You have the nerve to call me bias? The way you spit venom on kobe bryant. It seems like you have a personal grudge against the man. You have no idea what your talking about. Your clueless. You think all the chaos in LA was all kobe. Obviously you have never picked up a magazine or read any interviews because you have no idea how of an ego monster shaq is. And thus no idea what your talking about.
If you read some of the things shaq has said and some of the things other players have said about him. Like Robert horray for example then you would see that it\'s not just kobe. I am not saying kobe does not have an ego. Because I have not seen a superstar player in any sport that does not have an ego. But to put the blame all on kobe shoulders is just wrong.
First of all, I think it\'s perfectly fair to acknowledge there was a huge problem in LA with the way that team underachieved. Would you agree that that\'s fair?
You are clearly the one that hasn\'t been reading the articles. The fact is, the entire team didn\'t like Kobe. Kobe was the one who always acted "too mature for the other players" while Shaq just acted like a big kid and was fun to be around. In fact, here\'s a source from your beloved ESPN, that it took me all of 30 seconds to find:
http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn0407014kobeselfish.html
Kobe was the more hated man amongst his team mates, and look at the differences in what he and Shaq have done after this situation. Shaq demanded a trade...something many stars do. Kobe made the Lakers remake the team to his liking. Their actions alone speak to what they\'ve done.
Let\'s also not forget that Kobe is the one on trial for rape. You don\'t think that has been a distraction for this team that has really hurt them? Come on.
And then you have those nights where Kobe plays not to win, but to make a point. Like that night late in the season where he chose to not take any shots in the game so the Lakers would see how they miss him when he doesn\'t. Who the hell does that?
And if you think the heat are better than the pistons you obviously have no clue what your talking about. It\'s almost comical what your saving. I had to step back from the computer on that one. The heat right now are not better than the lakers where last season and that team got killed by the pistons.
The heat have nobody on the team equal to level of greatness as kobe. Shaq cannot be called on in the foruth quater and if you think eddie jones is mr.clutch well your very naive.
I NEVER said the Heat were better than the Pistons. Show me where I said that. I said it was moronic to say they have no chance though. The Heat certainly have a chance. And as for Kobe, outside of one shot, what exactly did he do against the Pistons? Practically nothing. 22 PPG, ok, but on VERY low shooting. Wagner could duplicate what he did in that series, as could many people in the NBA. And once again, that team isn\'t about Kobe, it\'s about Shaq. The only times they did well in the finals were when the kept feeding him the ball and ran things through him, and that will happen more in Miami. Shaq will be in better shape this year too, if you ask me. Besides, things change from year to year, so nothing is a guarantee. Once again, I\'m not saying the Heat are better, but I am saying the idea that they have no chance is moronic and ignorant.
And for the record: there are rumors of him wanting to be traded OMG you think they will let vince go for walker?
Only how I see them getting carter is by adding devin harris to a possible trade. With walker and somebody else. The rapters won\'t let vince go for the likes of walker. OMG
Once again, try to know what the hell you\'re talking about before making a post. It would be a three way trade, as the rumors go, not Walker for Carter straight up. As ESPN said "According to the report, the Mavericks were looking to send Antoine Walker to New York and the Knicks would send a combination of players to the Raptors, with Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo and Kurt Thomas being mentioned. Golden State also was mentioned as a possible participant, with Erick Dampier as the main component". So try not to post when you have no idea what you\'re talking about next time.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
Speaking of comical...let me take this piece by piece here.
First of all, I think it\'s perfectly fair to acknowledge there was a huge problem in LA with the way that team underachieved. Would you agree that that\'s fair?
You are clearly the one that hasn\'t been reading the articles. The fact is, the entire team didn\'t like Kobe. Kobe was the one who always acted "too mature for the other players" while Shaq just acted like a big kid and was fun to be around. In fact, here\'s a source from your beloved ESPN, that it took me all of 30 seconds to find:
http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn0407014kobeselfish.html
Kobe was the more hated man amongst his team mates, and look at the differences in what he and Shaq have done after this situation. Shaq demanded a trade...something many stars do. Kobe made the Lakers remake the team to his liking. Their actions alone speak to what they\'ve done.
Let\'s also not forget that Kobe is the one on trial for rape. You don\'t think that has been a distraction for this team that has really hurt them? Come on.
And then you have those nights where Kobe plays not to win, but to make a point. Like that night late in the season where he chose to not take any shots in the game so the Lakers would see how they miss him when he doesn\'t. Who the hell does that?
I NEVER said the Heat were better than the Pistons. Show me where I said that. I said it was moronic to say they have no chance though. The Heat certainly have a chance. And as for Kobe, outside of one shot, what exactly did he do against the Pistons? Practically nothing. 22 PPG, ok, but on VERY low shooting. Wagner could duplicate what he did in that series, as could many people in the NBA. And once again, that team isn\'t about Kobe, it\'s about Shaq. The only times they did well in the finals were when the kept feeding him the ball and ran things through him, and that will happen more in Miami. Shaq will be in better shape this year too, if you ask me. Besides, things change from year to year, so nothing is a guarantee. Once again, I\'m not saying the Heat are better, but I am saying the idea that they have no chance is moronic and ignorant.
Once again, try to know what the hell you\'re talking about before making a post. It would be a three way trade, as the rumors go, not Walker for Carter straight up. As ESPN said "According to the report, the Mavericks were looking to send Antoine Walker to New York and the Knicks would send a combination of players to the Raptors, with Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo and Kurt Thomas being mentioned. Golden State also was mentioned as a possible participant, with Erick Dampier as the main component". So try not to post when you have no idea what you\'re talking about next time.
Originally posted by shockwaves
Speaking of comical...let me take this piece by piece here.
First of all, I think it\'s perfectly fair to acknowledge there was a huge problem in LA with the way that team underachieved. Would you agree that that\'s fair?
You are clearly the one that hasn\'t been reading the articles. The fact is, the entire team didn\'t like Kobe. Kobe was the one who always acted "too mature for the other players" while Shaq just acted like a big kid and was fun to be around. In fact, here\'s a source from your beloved ESPN, that it took me all of 30 seconds to find:
http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn0407014kobeselfish.html
Kobe was the more hated man amongst his team mates, and look at the differences in what he and Shaq have done after this situation. Shaq demanded a trade...something many stars do. Kobe made the Lakers remake the team to his liking. Their actions alone speak to what they\'ve done.
Let\'s also not forget that Kobe is the one on trial for rape. You don\'t think that has been a distraction for this team that has really hurt them? Come on.
What are you trying to prove with this? That dick vital does not like kobe? Well you should go even farther back and pick up espn the magazine the may issue I believe. In this magazine you will find an interview where shaq speaks on how he should get the ball all time. And how every time he runs up and down the court he should get the ball. And that lakers are his team. Go find that and read that article and then come back and tell me how much of a saint your precious shaq is. He is clearly has huge ego and if you don\'t think so you are naive and really don\'t have a clue.
Second we all know payton hated the triangle. To say all kobe\'s teammates hated him is truly false. I mean how can you back that up by saying the man\'s entire team hated him. And if malone hated him he would not be thinking of coming back to play with kobe next season. I understand you feel shaq is such a big brother and loveable guy to you. And he would make an awesome big brother for you. But don\'t make false statements about kobe bryant when you clearly cannot give actually proof of none of it. It kind of seem like you were running off emotions.
And then you have those nights where Kobe plays not to win, but to make a point. Like that night late in the season where he chose to not take any shots in the game so the Lakers would see how they miss him when he doesn\'t. Who the hell does that?
The man was drawing double teams an passing the ball to his teammates. Instead of forcing shots. OMG if the guy takes to many shots he is this. If tries to play more into the team he that.
I NEVER said the Heat were better than the Pistons. Show me where I said that. I said it was moronic to say they have no chance though. The Heat certainly have a chance. And as for Kobe, outside of one shot, what exactly did he do against the Pistons? Practically nothing. 22 PPG, ok, but on VERY low shooting. Wagner could duplicate what he did in that series, as could many people in the NBA. And once again, that team isn\'t about Kobe, it\'s about Shaq. The only times they did well in the finals were when the kept feeding him the ball and ran things through him, and that will happen more in Miami. Shaq will be in better shape this year too, if you ask me. Besides, things change from year to year, so nothing is a guarantee. Once again, I\'m not saying the Heat are better, but I am saying the idea that they have no chance is moronic and ignorant.
If you think wayde is as good as kobe just shut up now. You have no idea what your talking about. And you are a novice if your going to talk like that. Kobe is the best all alround player in the NBA right now. The guy is awesome. He is a superstar and not many guys can even come close to doing what he does. To even suggest that wayde will fill his void is just childish.
Once again, try to know what the hell you\'re talking about before making a post. It would be a three way trade, as the rumors go, not Walker for Carter straight up. As ESPN said "According to the report, the Mavericks were looking to send Antoine Walker to New York and the Knicks would send a combination of players to the Raptors, with Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo and Kurt Thomas being mentioned. Golden State also was mentioned as a possible participant, with Erick Dampier as the main component". So try not to post when you have no idea what you\'re talking about next time. [/B]
Colm down buddy ok. And from what I read carter wants to goto Newyork. I don\'t think he is going anywhere and I don\'t think the raptures should trade him.
P.S. "beloved ESPN"
Thats vivi not me
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Sixers>Lakers
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Originally posted by QuDDus
What are you trying to prove with this? That dick vital does not like kobe? Well you should go even farther back and pick up espn the magazine the may issue I believe. In this magazine you will find an interview where shaq speaks on how he should get the ball all time. And how every time he runs up and down the court he should get the ball. And that lakers are his team. Go find that and read that article and then come back and tell me how much of a saint your precious shaq is. He is clearly has huge ego and if you don\'t think so you are naive and really don\'t have a clue.
Stop putting works in my mouth. I never said Shaq was a saint. I said he\'s not destructive to his team, and I said Kobe is worse. The fact is, nearly everything Shaq says to the media is sarcastic. If Shaq really had such a big ego, how do you explain how even when it is clear they don\'t like eachother, Shaq rallies behind Kobe every spring to bring the team more together so they can make their run? He is always saying that Kobe is the best playing in the league and things like that in the Spring, during playoff time. If he really had such a monsterous ego, he would never say that about someone else on his team, especially someone he\'s been fighting with.
And the other thing...about those comments you said he made...about half the basketball analysts out there, at least, would agree with all of that.
Second we all know payton hated the triangle. To say all kobe\'s teammates hated him is truly false. I mean how can you back that up by saying the man\'s entire team hated him. And if malone hated him he would not be thinking of coming back to play with kobe next season.
They did a story on it during the playoffs this year. Look it up. Kobe was hated in the locker room. And as for the Malone thing, many players play with guys they hate if it means a better shot at winning, which Malone may think it does.
I understand you feel shaq is such a big brother and loveable guy to you. And he would make an awesome big brother for you. But don\'t make false statements about kobe bryant when you clearly cannot give actually proof of none of it. It kind of seem like you were running off emotions.
First of all, the personal attacks aren\'t needed. In fact, I once again never even said anything of how good Shaq was or wasn\'t as a person.
Second of all, Kobe. We can both agree he openly didn\'t get along with Jackson or follow what he said. That was public, much publicised, and clear. If you really need proof on that, I can find it, but I won\'t waste my time now.
As for not having a good relationship with the other players, Kobe has repeatedly said that he has had problems with the other players and their relationships with him. As ESPN Insider put it earlier in the season, "A source close to Bryant told Insider that Kobe has been dismayed by a perceived lack of support from his teammates and coach Phil Jackson." He was also very openly criticised by several team mates after that game when he refused to shoot, and never really regained much respect from that point, as the criticism continued bit by bit. Just do a search on it, and it\'s easy to find. As Yahoo sports put it, "Bryant was criticized by Jackson and several teammates recently for his shot selection in losses to San Antonio and Portland, when he went a combined 14-of-49.
Then came the game in Sacramento, when Bryant shot once in the first half as the Lakers fell behind by 19 points. His finished with eight points on 3-of-13 shooting -- his lowest point total in a game when he played at least 40 minutes.
Local media questioned whether Bryant, the league\'s fourth-leading scorer, was sending a message to Jackson and his teammates by not playing his normal game.
One unidentified player even told The Los Angeles Times that the team might never forgive Bryant"
Are you honestly trying to tell me that A) That\'s not disruptive, and B) Shaq was worse than that?
And this, once again, isn\'t even taking into consideration the whole rape thing, which was the biggest distraction of the season.
The man was drawing double teams an passing the ball to his teammates. Instead of forcing shots. OMG if the guy takes to many shots he is this. If tries to play more into the team he that.
If you think he didn\'t do that with an agenda, you\'re the naive one. How do you explain that the night after, he took 10 shots in the first quarter alone? It was all about sending a message during a time when he was already being criticised, and it backfired.
If you think wayde is as good as kobe just shut up now. You have no idea what your talking about. And you are a novice if your going to talk like that. Kobe is the best all alround player in the NBA right now. The guy is awesome. He is a superstar and not many guys can even come close to doing what he does. To even suggest that wayde will fill his void is just childish.
Of course I don\'t think Wade is as good as Kobe. I never said that. I did however say that Wade could duplicate Bryants numbers in the finals, which weren\'t that great. I also said that Wade\'s game will be a lot better for Shaq than Bryants. The offense on whatever team Shaq is on SHOULD run through him. Kobe never wanted it to, but Wade will be happy to run things that way.
As for being a "novice", I guarantee I know more about the NBA than you do, so don\'t even try going that route.
Colm down buddy ok. And from what I read carter wants to goto Newyork. I don\'t think he is going anywhere and I don\'t think the raptures should trade him.
Sorry, but when you respond to my saying that the rumor exists with two "OMG"\'s in a single paragraph, saying that that couldn\'t be, I have to respond some how :p
P.S. "beloved ESPN"
Thats vivi not me [/B]
You\'re right, my fault.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
Stop putting works in my mouth. I never said Shaq was a saint. I said he\'s not destructive to his team, and I said Kobe is worse. The fact is, nearly everything Shaq says to the media is sarcastic. If Shaq really had such a big ego, how do you explain how even when it is clear they don\'t like eachother, Shaq rallies behind Kobe every spring to bring the team more together so they can make their run? He is always saying that Kobe is the best playing in the league and things like that in the Spring, during playoff time. If he really had such a monsterous ego, he would never say that about someone else on his team, especially someone he\'s been fighting with.
And the other thing...about those comments you said he made...about half the basketball analysts out there, at least, would agree with all of that.
They did a story on it during the playoffs this year. Look it up. Kobe was hated in the locker room. And as for the Malone thing, many players play with guys they hate if it means a better shot at winning, which Malone may think it does.
You really don\'t believe shaq has an ego? I mean kobe is great talent. One of the best to play the game. And shaq feels that he can\'t run up and down the court without having the ball. The guy wants the ball all the time. Even if other guys are shooting he gets mad. Because he feels like the lakers should give him the ball everytime he comes down court. Read the interview. The guy is going on 32 bad toe and out of shape. And still thinks everything should evolve around him. And Malone can go any where he wants. If malone hated kobe trust me he would not be going back to LA buddy trust me on that. The guy is a real hardass.
All of these guys have ego. Too say shaq does not have one is just crazy. Kareem had problem letting magic step in a be the next star in LA. Because kareem did not have to have his ego fed to make him feel like he is still the man. I know kobe has an ego but all these guy do from tracy-iverson and shaq is no different. It\'s funny how when shaq makes demans or says things it\'s just him be sarcastic. "Pay me or trade me"
"I don\'t wanna play without phil" "thi is my team"
I am not saying shaq is not great but the guy is not what he use to be. He will be 33. He is fat/out of shap. We all know the big toe can give out at any second. I mean just read some of the things he says. He thinks that lakers should focus souly on him and him only. It would have been a shame if kareem would have acted the same way towards magic.
First of all, the personal attacks aren\'t needed. In fact, I once again never even said anything of how good Shaq was or wasn\'t as a person.
Second of all, Kobe. We can both agree he openly didn\'t get along with Jackson or follow what he said. That was public, much publicised, and clear. If you really need proof on that, I can find it, but I won\'t waste my time now.
As for not having a good relationship with the other players, Kobe has repeatedly said that he has had problems with the other players and their relationships with him. As ESPN Insider put it earlier in the season, "A source close to Bryant told Insider that Kobe has been dismayed by a perceived lack of support from his teammates and coach Phil Jackson." He was also very openly criticised by several team mates after that game when he refused to shoot, and never really regained much respect from that point, as the criticism continued bit by bit. Just do a search on it, and it\'s easy to find. As Yahoo sports put it, "Bryant was criticized by Jackson and several teammates recently for his shot selection in losses to San Antonio and Portland, when he went a combined 14-of-49.
I wasn\'t trying to personally attact you. If it came off that way excuse me. Kobe is not the first guy to not get along with his coach. And he won\'t be the last. Malone has given kobe much credit and praised the kid. I find it very hard to feel he hates him. Second malone can go anywhere he would not even consider LA if he hated kobe. Second I find it very hard to feel payton hated kobe. Payton hated the triangle which was made just for shaq.
I do believe they may have been upset with eachother. But hate from anyone other than shaq is hardly believable. Any all teammates have disagreements
"He was also very openly criticised by several team mates"
While this is nothing but media bullshit. Several temmates that very funny. There are not seven guys are that team credible enough to even consider it. Plus I know he has a great relationship with rush and george.
Then came the game in Sacramento, when Bryant shot once in the first half as the Lakers fell behind by 19 points. His finished with eight points on 3-of-13 shooting -- his lowest point total in a game when he played at least 40 minutes.
Local media questioned whether Bryant, the league\'s fourth-leading scorer, was sending a message to Jackson and his teammates by not playing his normal game.
One unidentified player even told The Los Angeles Times that the team might never forgive Bryant"
Are you honestly trying to tell me that A) That\'s not disruptive, and B) Shaq was worse than that?
And this, once again, isn\'t even taking into consideration the whole rape thing, which was the biggest distraction of the season.
"the team might never forgive Bryant"
Lol come on shocky more media b.s. I mean do you honestly think any of this has any merit. And like stated by so many other people. It is very hard to believe that kobe would even do something like this.
If you think he didn\'t do that with an agenda, you\'re the naive one. How do you explain that the night after, he took 10 shots in the first quarter alone? It was all about sending a message during a time when he was already being criticised, and it backfired.
ok if you look at the game the kings were sending 2-3 guys at kobe everytime he got the ball. He was passing the ball to open guys. Who were missing shots/3\'s. And the lakers defense was a little to be desired. But it makes better media to blame it all on kobe.
Of course I don\'t think Wade is as good as Kobe. I never said that. I did however say that Wade could duplicate Bryants numbers in the finals, which weren\'t that great. I also said that Wade\'s game will be a lot better for Shaq than Bryants. The offense on whatever team Shaq is on SHOULD run through him. Kobe never wanted it to, but Wade will be happy to run things that way.
Wayde will never be able to duplicate what kobe did in the same situations because wayde is not a good. Why can\'t two great players play within the offense. How good would michael jordan be if he had to play second fiddle to shaq? I mean you tell me why the offense can\'t run through shaq and kobe. Why does it has to be just shaq? Kobe is the best all around player in the league. He is a superstar why can\'t the offense run through both guys?
As for being a "novice", I guarantee I know more about the NBA than you do, so don\'t even try going that route.
Very comical. I needed a laugh. But I am old school nba. I prefer the vintage stuff which I got tons of films of. I have seen games played by all the best. Your what 18 you are probably what the 90\'s era of nba;)
Sorry, but when you respond to my saying that the rumor exists with two "OMG"\'s in a single paragraph, saying that that couldn\'t be, I have to respond some how :p
No problem.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
You really don\'t believe shaq has an ego? I mean kobe is great talent. One of the best to play the game. And shaq feels that he can\'t run up and down the court without having the ball. The guy wants the ball all the time. Even if other guys are shooting he gets made. Because he feels like the lakers should give him the ball everytime he comes down court. Read the interview. The guy is going on 32 bad toe and out of shape. And still thinks everything should evolve around him. And Malone can go any where he wants. If malone hated kobe trust me he would not be going back to LA buddy trust me on that. The guy is a real hardass.
All of these guys have ego. Too say shaq does not have one is just crazy. Kareem had problem letting magic step in a be the next star in LA. Because kareem did not have to have his ego fed to make him feel like he is still the man. I know kobe has an ego but all these guy do from tracy-iverson and shaq is no different. It\'s funny how when shaq makes demans or says things it\'s just him be sarcastic. "Pay me or trade me"
"I don\'t wanna play without phil" "thi is my team"
Alright, I\'m goona take this piece by piece. First off...
Did he EVER say that Shaq DID NOT have an Ego? Nope, I never saw that, I\'m not quite sure where you saw that, bud. Again, he stated that "Shaq is in no way a Saint, but he\'s not as bad as Kobe." I for one do NOT see how that implies that Shaq does not in fact have an Ego. Also, we\'re all very aware that Kobe is a great talent, that\'s not being disputed here. What you\'re trying to imply is that Shaq always wanted the ball and that everything should revolve around him. YES! It\'s called "Good basketball!" When you have the most dominating force in the game, you should give him the ball! The logic, man, think of the logic here. When you have the most dominating force in the game, when given his touches, puts up a double double easily every night and can almost never be stopped due to the amount of calls he gets, why WOULDN\'T you give him the ball? This isn\'t Shaq being selfish, this is Shaq being basketball-smart! Kobe doesn\'t want to GIVE Shaq the ball, and would rather take 25 to 30 perimiter shots a game. That\'s not just throwing random stuff out there, he did it during the finals. Kobe thought he could take over the games against the Pistons, but their good defense prevented him from getting any good looks. When Shaq was actually fed the basketball, he was tremendously hard to stop. Shaq, one on one against Anybody, is a mismatch.
Guess What? Malone DOESN\'T want to play in LA. Hell, he\'d probably retire before playing for the Lakers again. There\'s been talk about him going to follow Shaq to the Heat, so again, you\'re just throwing stuff out there. Payton isn\'t staying in LA becuase of Kobe. He\'s staying in LA because he\'s due to make 5 million dollars for playing like a washed up bench player.
Again, Tony didn\'t say that Shaq didn\'t have an Ego. Lets put that to rest right now. I don\'t know where you got it, or why you keep implying that shockwaves said that Shaq didn\'t have an ego, because he never, EVER said that. Stop implying it.
Now to the second part...
Originally posted by QuDDus
I am not saying shaq is not great but the guy is not what he use to be. He will be 33. He is fat/out of shap. We all know the big toe can give out at any second. I mean just read some of the things he says. He thinks that lakers should focus souly on him and him only. It would have been a shame if kareem would have acted the same way towards magic.
Yes, Shaq isn\'t what he used to be. Fine. He\'s still the most dominating force in the game. Sure, he may almost be 33 and the Knee might be a bit of a problem, but in no way is he out of shape. Do you expect a man who is 7\'1 350 pounds to run on the court every night and come back the next night as fresh as he was the night before, and do that through the entire season? That\'s incredibly unrealistic. I alread addressed the fact about the offese revolving around Shaq. No need to beat a dead horse.
Originally posted by QuDDus
I wasn\'t trying to personally attact you. If it came off that way excuse me. Kobe is not the first guy to not get along with his coach. And he won\'t be the last. Malone has give kobe much credit and praised the kid. I find it very hard to feel he hates him. Second malone can go anywhere would not even consider LA if he hated kobe. Second I find it very hard to feel payton hated kobe. Payton hated the triangle which was made just for shaq.
I do believe they may have been upset with eachother. But hate from anyone other than shaq is hardly believable.
Yes, Kobe is not the first guy to get along with his coach. But to use his former coach as a clutch for the team to accept being resigned is pretty pathetic in my book. He got a coach who has won 9 NBA Titles out on the streets, and if they didn\'t put him out there, he wasn\'t goona come back. If they didn\'t get rid of Shaq, he wasn\'t goona come back. No one man should have that much power.
Yes, Malone praises the kid. Good for him. You know who else praised the kid? SHAQ! Wow! Kobe\'s a talent, we know this! Yeah, but you know what else he is? A superstar with aging talent around him. That team is going nowhere without Shaq. Sorry. I really don\'t know why you keep bringing Karl Malone up, it doesn\'t make much sense. Kobe has other teammates, too. How about Derek Fisher? Left for the Golden State Warriors. Gary Payton\'s coming back because he\'s getting paid 5 million dollars to do nothing next year. Shaq\'s already gone. His coach is gone, and he got the last two to leave.
Originally posted by QuDDus
"He was also very openly criticised by several team mates"
While this is nothing but media bullshit. Several temmates that very funny. There are not seven guys are that team credible enough to even consider it. Plus I know he has a great relationship with rush and george.
"the team might never forgive Bryant"
Lol come on shocky more media b.s. I mean do you honestly think any of this has any merit. And like stated by so many other people. It is very hard to believe that kobe would even do something like this.
ok if you look at the game the kings were sending 2-3 guys at kobe everytime he got the ball. He was passing the ball to open guys. Who were missing shots/3\'s. And the lakers defense was a little to be desired. But it makes better media to blame it all on kobe.
Well, as long as everything the Media says after countless interviews and practice sessions is uncredible. You know, right, because you were there when the interviews took place, right? Please. Your random assumptions are unwarranted and flat out wrong. How can you just call that "Media B.S."? Give me some proof. That\'s all I ask. Give me some proof. How IS is hard to believe that Kobe threw another one of his temper tantrums and didn\'t shoot the ball on purpose? Prove me otherwise.
Oh Boy, he had a great relationship with a rookie on the team from Missouri, and Devon George, who sits on the bench. You gave me two players. There are 12 players on a team, and if only 2 of them had good relationships, as you say, with Kobe, then he probably has a bit of a problem. Why would players come forward and state that they have a real problem with Kobe during the season? Why would they want to ruin the team chemistry during the middle of the playoff run? That makes ZERO sense. Did Shaq ever knock Kobe during the season? No, he called him one of the best players he\'d ever played with. It\'s in one of his many interviews that you keep talking about. Look it up.
Originally posted by QuDDus
Wayde will never be able to duplicate what kobe did in the same situations because wayde is not a good. Why can\'t two great players play within the offense. How good would michael jordan be if he had to play second fiddle to shaq? I mean you tell me why the offense can\'t run through shaq and kobe. Why does it has to be just shaq? Kobe is the best all around player in the league. He is a superstar why can\'t the offense run through both guys?
And again, Tony never said that Wade was as good as Kobe. He said he will be able to duplicate his numbers because Wade has no problems with giving Shaq the ball, unlike the problems that Kobe had with it. Second, the Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan comparison is weak. You look up any of their stats on a season-by-season comparison, and Jordan dwarfs Kobe. Don\'t act like it wasn\'t a comparison -- simply by bringing Jordan up in that context is a comparison.
Why can\'t the offense run through both guys? Because BOTH of them wouldn\'t want that! Would Kobe OR Shaq want it to run through both of them? Not with either of their ego\'s. Simply by splitting it, Kobe would complain and basically, and all of the chaos that has happened now would happen. They were basically splitting the ball anyway, what with Kobe taking the amount of shots that he was. Not really sure why you even brought up the question of why the offense should run through both of them, because basically, it did, and neither of them liked it at all.
Originally posted by QuDDus
Very comical. I needed a laugh. But I am old school nba. I prefer the vintage stuff which I got tons of films of. I have seen games played by all the best. Your what 18 you are probably what the 90\'s era of nba;)
And you end with another personal attack, apparently because being 18 years old doesn\'t make you knowledgible of anything whatsoever. Just because we\'re not "Vintage" like you, or you claim to be anyways, what makes you think that we\'ve never seen the "Old School" players? Are you that ignorant?
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
You really don\'t believe shaq has an ego?
Once again, I never said that. I said he doesn\'t have one the size of Kobe\'s.
I mean kobe is great talent. One of the best to play the game. And shaq feels that he can\'t run up and down the court without having the ball. The guy wants the ball all the time. Even if other guys are shooting he gets mad. Because he feels like the lakers should give him the ball everytime he comes down court.
Read the interview. The guy is going on 32 bad toe and out of shape. And still thinks everything should evolve around him. And Malone can go any where he wants. If malone hated kobe trust me he would not be going back to LA buddy trust me on that. The guy is a real hardass.
A) If you\'re gonna rely on this interview so much, find it for me. I looking in both May 2004 ESPN mag issues, and it wasn\'t there, so I\'d like to know what you\'re talking about.
B) Players often play with people they hate. You think Jordan liked Rodman? Not at all. But he wanted the Bulls to bring him in and keep him there anyway, because he made the team better, and he knew that. Malone is the same way. That comes first.
All of these guys have ego. Too say shaq does not have one is just crazy. Kareem had problem letting magic step in a be the next star in LA. Because kareem did not have to have his ego fed to make him feel like he is still the man. I know kobe has an ego but all these guy do from tracy-iverson and shaq is no different. It\'s funny how when shaq makes demans or says things it\'s just him be sarcastic. "Pay me or trade me"
"I don\'t wanna play without phil" "thi is my team"
All three of those quotes...well, let me take em one at a time.
A) Pay me or trade me: The Lakers were publicly getting ready to do "whatever it takes" to resign Kobe. However, when Shaq asked for an extension, they barely even tried to offer one. Any player takes that as an insult. Anyone would have done the same, it happens ALL THE TIME in basketball.
B) I don\'t wanna play without phil: I don\'t even see what\'s wrong with that. That\'s just being loyal to your coach. I think that\'s even an admirable thing to say. He didn\'t even say he wouldn\'t play without Phil, just that he\'d rather play for him.
C) this is my team: The fact is, it was. 3 finals, 3 finals MVP\'s. The offense, as Jackson drew it up, was supposed to run through him, although players like Kobe often went outside that offense. And even with that being true, he has also said on multiple occasions that this is Kobe\'s team.
I am not saying shaq is not great but the guy is not what he use to be. He will be 33. He is fat/out of shap. We all know the big toe can give out at any second. I mean just read some of the things he says. He thinks that lakers should focus souly on him and him only. It would have been a shame if kareem would have acted the same way towards magic.
-Once again, find me where he says this.
-And his toe has gotten better.
-And if he is motivated this year, which he is, he will prolly get into better shape.
-And besides, he has dominated for years being out of shape, so if he does get into shape, he\'ll only be better.
I wasn\'t trying to personally attact you. If it came off that way excuse me.
Ok, it just was worded weirdly, the whole big brother thing...
Kobe is not the first guy to not get along with his coach. And he won\'t be the last.
And I don\'t agree with anyone else who does either.
Malone has given kobe much credit and praised the kid. I find it very hard to feel he hates him.
So has Shaq.
Second malone can go anywhere he would not even consider LA if he hated kobe. Second I find it very hard to feel payton hated kobe. Payton hated the triangle which was made just for shaq.
The reasons for hating Kobe weren\'t on the court, they were his attitude in the locker room, etc., as well as some of the selfish points he tried to make.
I do believe they may have been upset with eachother. But hate from anyone other than shaq is hardly believable. Any all teammates have disagreements
"He was also very openly criticised by several team mates"
While this is nothing but media bullshit. Several temmates that very funny. There are not seven guys are that team credible enough to even consider it. Plus I know he has a great relationship with rush and george.
Every media outlet reported the same thing that he was criticized by most of his team, ESPN even did a full story on it on Sportscenter.
"the team might never forgive Bryant"
Lol come on shocky more media b.s. I mean do you honestly think any of this has any merit. And like stated by so many other people. It is very hard to believe that kobe would even do something like this.
A Laker said it, not me or the media. Are you trying to tell me the media just made this up? Please. It happened, trying to discredit things that all the media sources reported? Please. And to me, those actions fit perfectly with Kobe\'s ego.
ok if you look at the game the kings were sending 2-3 guys at kobe everytime he got the ball. He was passing the ball to open guys. Who were missing shots/3\'s. And the lakers defense was a little to be desired. But it makes better media to blame it all on kobe.
Did you watch that game. He passed up a ton of open shots. And the media didn\'t blame kobe, his team did.
Wayde will never be able to duplicate what kobe did in the same situations because wayde is not a good.
But Kobe didn\'t play like a great player save one shot against the Pistons. That\'s something Wade could do as well.
Why can\'t two great players play within the offense. How good would michael jordan be if he had to play second fiddle to shaq? I mean you tell me why the offense can\'t run through shaq and kobe. Why does it has to be just shaq? Kobe is the best all around player in the league. He is a superstar why can\'t the offense run through both guys?
Just because it runs through him doesn\'t mean he gets more shots or anything. It means you give it to him downlow to collapse the D, then he kicks it out to the open perimeter players, including Kobe. I mean, Kobe did take a lot more shots than Shaq did, even when the offense ran this way a lot of the time. But how exactly would you set up an offense to run through both? Who the offense runs through has nothing to do with the number of shots. The Nets offense ran through Kidd, but he didn\'t ever take the most shots.
Very comical. I needed a laugh. But I am old school nba. I prefer the vintage stuff which I got tons of films of. I have seen games played by all the best. Your what 18 you are probably what the 90\'s era of nba;)
You\'re 4 years older than me, so don\'t try to act like that\'s a huge difference. And I mean any era of the NBA. But even more, just how the game works. From your arguements it is clear to me that there is a lot you don\'t see or don\'t understand.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
Once again, I never said that. I said he doesn\'t have one the size of Kobe\'s.
A) If you\'re gonna rely on this interview so much, find it for me. I looking in both May 2004 ESPN mag issues, and it wasn\'t there, so I\'d like to know what you\'re talking about.
B) Players often play with people they hate. You think Jordan liked Rodman? Not at all. But he wanted the Bulls to bring him in and keep him there anyway, because he made the team better, and he knew that. Malone is the same way. That comes first.
-Once again, find me where he says this.
-And his toe has gotten better.
-And if he is motivated this year, which he is, he will prolly get into better shape.
-And besides, he has dominated for years being out of shape, so if he does get into shape, he\'ll only be better.
Ok, it just was worded weirdly, the whole big brother thing...
And I don\'t agree with anyone else who does either.
So has Shaq.
Ok but you said hate how can you say all his teammates hate him? How can you say anyone outside of shaq hates him?
Disagreeing on the court is not hating.
The reasons for hating Kobe weren\'t on the court, they were his attitude in the locker room, etc., as well as some of the selfish points he tried to make.
Every media outlet reported the same thing that he was criticized by most of his team, ESPN even did a full story on it on Sportscenter.
A Laker said it, not me or the media. Are you trying to tell me the media just made this up? Please. It happened, trying to discredit things that all the media sources reported? Please. And to me, those actions fit perfectly with Kobe\'s ego.
Once again I don\'t understand how can you use a word like hate. And the media reports stuff but they blow bullshit up and make something out of nothing. And there where only 4 good lakers and kobe is one of them. So several of his teammates. Oh maybe luke walton or cook where pissed off at kobe while they where cheering on the bench.
As for the article you should really read it. I believe it is the april or may issue it has the pistons on it I think. I am not sure I saw this one a long time ago. But It has to be april or may. My cousin has it I\'ll ask what issue it was since I am not too sure.
Did you watch that game. He passed up a ton of open shots. And the media didn\'t blame kobe, his team did.
But Kobe didn\'t play like a great player save one shot against the Pistons. That\'s something Wade could do as well.
yes I watched the game and I don\'t think he passed up on shots the way some ppl may think. And your making more of it than anyone I have seen or heard.
Maybe we were watching two different games but kobe was still great in the finals. I admit he was not playing at his greatest, but none of the lakers where even the power shaq. Who had one great game also. Wayde still cannot match any level of play that kobe puts up I am sorry to tell you this.
Just because it runs through him doesn\'t mean he gets more shots or anything. It means you give it to him downlow to collapse the D, then he kicks it out to the open perimeter players, including Kobe. I mean, Kobe did take a lot more shots than Shaq did, even when the offense ran this way a lot of the time. But how exactly would you set up an offense to run through both? Who the offense runs through has nothing to do with the number of shots. The Nets offense ran through Kidd, but he didn\'t ever take the most shots.
yes it does mean shaq wants even more shots. And shaq forces a lot of shots. It\'s just that ppl like to easily over look it. And wrong again that big toe of shaq is pretty f\'ed up and I don\'t know how much gas he has left in the tank. He still is good but not anywhere like he use to be. And of course he is going to dominate. The NBA is not full of great centers so thats a no brainer.
You\'re 4 years older than me, so don\'t try to act like that\'s a huge difference. And I mean any era of the NBA. But even more, just how the game works. From your arguements it is clear to me that there is a lot you don\'t see or don\'t understand. [/B]
Your 18 and I am 24 but age does not matter my cousin is 16 and I\'d bet the farm he knows more about basketball than anyone on this entire forum. Myself Including. And I was merly joking about the era thing. I just am very old school when it comes to basketball. A lot of these guys in sports now of days have to many ego\'s. You seem to have some knowledge of the game and I won\'t discredit that. People sometimes seem to see things very different. No need to go and discredit eachother.
I see thing one way you see somethings different. When it comes to kobe bryant everyone seem to be against him. But it pisses me off when shaq does so much and ppl act like he is a saint.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
The heat right now don\'t have a shot getting past the pistons. Beyond shaq there front court is garbage. They have no bench.
And we all know shaq can\'t be called on in the fourth quater.
He will miss kobe.
Wait, what?
Shaq is THE most dominating player in the league, that alone gives whatever team he\'s on a chance to win the championship. It\'s no coincidence that he made it to the finals with Orlando, then LA, and I wouldn\'t be surprised if he makes it with Miami, even though you say he\'s old and washed up.
Yeah, I bet he\'ll miss Kobe forcing shots. :rolleyes: Did you even watch the finals? When Shaq got the ball consistantly the Lakers led. What happened in the 4th though? Kobe TRIED to take over, and he failed, miserabely.
You remember what Shaq said when a reporter asked him "Shaq why do your teammated stop giving you the ball in the 4th?" and he replied with "Welcome to the story of my life."
Which is why I find it ridiculous why you keep bringing up that Shaq never did anything in the 4th. IT\'S BECAUSE HE NEVER GOT THE BALL! Your homeboy Kobe was jacking up shots.
The fact is, Kobe is an arrogant prick who NEEDS to attention. When you have quite possibly the most dominating player of all time (besides MJ) you give him the ball, no matter what.
Sure Shaq has an ego, but to deny that Kobe has a bigger one is just...umm...stupid. "If i go to the Clippers we have to play 15 games in the Pond." Um, who the **** does he think he is? He\'s a player, know your damn role. He isn\'t larger than life, and believe it or not, his shit does stink.
And lol at Kobe playing great in the finals. That RIGHT there shows that you don\'t know a DAMN thing about basketball, and you shouldn\'t be taken seriously.
And before you go and resort to the "you\'re a hater", Kobe is one of the top 5 players in the NBA.
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Alright bud, so I"m reading this article, Quddus, and this is what I"m seeing...
"We begin with the April 11 game in Sacramento. With Kobe refusing to shoot, attempting just one shot the entire first half With an unnamed Lakers player telling the Los Angeles Times, \'I don\'t know how we can forgive him.\' With a ballistic Kobe going locker to locker the next day, growling, \'Are you the Mother ****er who said that?\' None of them told Kobe yes, of course, not with those fangs sprouting from his mouth. In fact, most of th em essentially said, "Get out of my face." Eventually, the team laughed it off, with Shaq approaching a Times columnist to pry, "Come on, who was it - a guard or a forward?\'"
That doesn\'t sound too good for Kobe. Do like his compassion for his teammates, don\'t you?
This entire article basically jumps on Kobe...how can you call this article bad for Shaq? How about this classic exchange between Coach and Player:
"...It was Kobe\'s first game in Colorado since the arrest, and to keep the media circus to a minimum, Jackson cancelled the morning shootaround. But in the first quarter, when Kobe threw one of his rare passes out of bounds, Jackson shouted, "You\'ve gotta make a better pass than that." Kobe\'s reaction, according to witnesses, was, "Well, you need to teach these Mother ****ers how to run the offense." So Jackson yanked him."
Again, there\'s that compassionate Kobe again. All of his adoring teammates, OH, excuse me, "Mother ****ers" seem to be held in high regard by Kobe. Quote me, my man!
"By the All-Star Game, Jackson was boiling over. In his first game back from injury, Kobe played soft defense on Cuttino Mobley in a 102-87 loss to Houston right before the break, so on that Monday, the coach called him in. He implored his star to embrace basketball again. \'I said, Let\'s tighten this up a big because it\'s gotten too loose and out of joint between you and the rest of the team\', Jackson says. \'The convesation went well -- or as well as they go with Kobe."
Why must the man be forced to embrace basketball and get in-joint with his teammates? Wow, what a tremendous team player. How about some more from the article...
"Now if He\'d just pass the ball to Shaq. Make No mistake: This is still Shaquille O\'Neal\'s team. Laker fans may cheer louder for Kobe than for Shaq ("The City likes child stars, like Drew Barrymore," Jackson says), but they haven\'t set foot in the locker room. They haven\'t seen the way Shaq runs the place, or keeps his teammates in stitches. When he won Game 1 of the playoff series against the Rockets with a last-minute dunk, Shaq\'s quote was, "I\'m no hero. A hero ain\'t nothing but a sandwich, and I"m tying to cut down on my carbohydrates." Or when teammates were comparing Vince Carter\'s dunks to Michael Jordan\'s one day, Shaq\'s quote was, "That\'s like comparing apples and pumpkins." The guys adore him."
Do they say that about Kobe?
Alright, here\'s the thing you keep pointing out. Quddus, you keep talking about how in the article, Shaq says that he should get the ball all the time. Nowhere in this article to I read that.
"So imagine what happens to them when the games start...and Kobe won\'t hadn the ball over. "People can say it\'s a Kobe town, but I don\'t really care, because the world knows if The Diesel ain\'t flowing, nothing\'s flowing," Shaq says. "That\'s why I don\'t understand how they don\'t keep The Diesel involved sometimes. It\'s an insult to me to run down the court 10 times in a row and not touch the ball. A lot of people say, \'Well, you\'ve got to demand it.\' I don\'t see Tim Duncan demanding the ball when we play them. He runs down and turns, and as soon as he puts his hand out, it\'s there. We\'ve done that in the past, and look what we got. Three gold balls. When you have different agendas, that\'s when things get messed up. But see, the powers that be need to handle that."
Now, nowhere in that do I see Shaq saying that he should get the ball all the time. He\'s stating that he\'s frustrated when he goes down the court 10 times in a row, and he DOESN\'T touch it. Basically, your entire argument just got thrown in the tubes with that one quote. There\'s more, of course...
"(Kobe\'s) Teammates bit their lip afterard, never bashing him. His closest friend on the squad, Derek Fisher, who hugs him before tipoff, says Kobe deserves the benefit of the doubt. "I mean, to battle these personal things and still perform at a high level is impressive," Fisher says. The three other Lakers superstars are trying to toe the line too. Believe it or not, Shaq admires Kobe\'s pure ability (" a courageous little brother", he says), and doesn\'t believe Kobe tanked in Sacramento. As for Malone and Payton, they have enough to worry about just staying healthy and mastering Jackson\'s triangle offense. But they\'re grateful Kobe hasn\'t quit because of Kobe\'s legal entanglement, and they tolerate the drama because they just want a ring. After Sunday\'s game, Malone even kissed Kobe on the temple. "
Well, that\'s really nice, Kobe\'s teammates did learn to TOLERATE him....
"By all appearances, it\'s a congenial Lakers locker room. But that doesn\'t mean any of his teammates, except maybe Fisher, has broken through the facade. Even part-owner Magic Johnson has failed to get Kobe to warm up to him this year. A friend of Magic\'s says, "No one gets in with Kobe."
Sad. Your main argument was this article, yet, I don\'t see anything in here that says that Shaq always wants the ball, and that Kobe\'s so innocent after all. Couldn\'t be further from the truth.
By the way, Tony isn\'t 18. I am, however.
See Yuz.
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Spurs rule
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Now, nowhere in that do I see Shaq saying that he should get the ball all the time.
He\'s stating that he\'s frustrated when he goes down the court 10 times in a row, and he DOESN\'T touch it. Basically, your entire argument just got thrown in the tubes with that one quote. There\'s more, of course...
Wrong James. If your going to try and make someone look wrong at least do it right. Read through the article and find where Shaq says how Tim Duncan who plays for the San antonio spurs gets the ball everytime he goes up and down the court. And how when he runs up and down the court he does not t get the ball all the time. Indicating that the spurs offense goes through duncan and duncan only first. And he is pissed that it\'s not like that with lakers.
But Tim Duncan is not playing with a supster guard like kobe braynt who should equally share the ball.
Why don\'t you post some of shaqs comments about the front office and how he is pissed because jerry bus loves kobe and how he threw a big hissy fit. And all the rediculous shit he had to say.
No you posted only what you wanted to post. And the article was bad for shaq. It made him look like a big ass cry baby. And all that stuff you posted is just sports writer B.S. And it really had no merit in this topic. I don\'t even understand why you even posted it. I was merly speaking of the actual comments that players made themselves. I never spoke on sports writer b.s. which is what you chose to post.
I am talking about the ACTUAL Comments that where said by players. I.E. shaq being one of them. I felt all his comments in that article where that of a big ass baby. And he showed just how much of an ego monster he is.
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Um, did you not even see that I put the Tim Duncan thing in there? Shaq does not ONCE say that he should get the ball all the time.
Would you like to know why he stated all of that stuff about Jerry Buss? Because it\'s true! The front office did everything they could to resign Kobe -- got rid of Phil, and got rid of Shaq. That\'s exactly what Shaq predicted, and he got traded. Phil got released, and Kobe got everything he wanted.
Um, I actually did post quotes from players, you know, those things in QUOTATION marks throughout the paragraph.
I don\'t even think you read my entire post. You just weeded out some things and decided to completley disregard everything I had to say because you believe that Shaq is "a big ass baby".
I\'m done with this argument. I\'ve proved my point, and the fact that you keep arguing your opinion over the facts is starting to get a bit old.
Have fun watching the Lakers completley fold. Tony, you can take it from here if you want, but I\'m done with Quddus being so thickheaded.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Um, did you not even see that I put the Tim Duncan thing in there? Shaq does not ONCE say that he should get the ball all the time.
Would you like to know why he stated all of that stuff about Jerry Buss? Because it\'s true! The front office did everything they could to resign Kobe -- got rid of Phil, and got rid of Shaq. That\'s exactly what Shaq predicted, and he got traded. Phil got released, and Kobe got everything he wanted.
Um, I actually did post quotes from players, you know, those things in QUOTATION marks throughout the paragraph.
I don\'t even think you read my entire post. You just weeded out some things and decided to completley disregard everything I had to say because you believe that Shaq is "a big ass baby".
I\'m done with this argument. I\'ve proved my point, and the fact that you keep arguing your opinion over the facts is starting to get a bit old.
Have fun watching the Lakers completley fold. Tony, you can take it from here if you want, but I\'m done with Quddus being so thickheaded.
See Yuz.
:rolleyes: blah blah man I am trying to have some level of respect for you. But you can\'t even hold a decent conversation without resorting to childlishness. I mean did you just throw a hissy fit in your post? It\'s one thing to think that your right and everyone else is wrong. But your acting like a child. This is only sport.
This is sports people have disagreement. Some think this some think that.
"I\'ve proved my point, and the fact that you keep arguing your opinion over the facts"
What facts? If you can prove 100% everything you have said in your post i\'ll shut my mouth and put my head between my legs and kiss my ass.
We were merly debating on what was allegedly said. These guys say one thing. Then they say another. And while some of it maybe true a lot it is nothing but B.S. I am not saying everything is not true, but a lot is just bullshit that is over blown.
But if you can\'t talk about sports and respect one anothers opinons then just don\'t post.
If i wanna argue and have fits I\'ll tell my little nephew spong bob sucks.
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I forgot the statistics, but the Lakers had a far better winning % with Kobe out, than with Shaq out.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
:rolleyes: blah blah man I am trying to have some level of respect for you. But you can\'t even hold a decent conversation without resorting to childlishness.
I am done with this arguement Quddus, because I am done with you. The fact that you\'re saying HE resorted to childness when you have been attacking us a lot more than we attack you, and acting childish in calling him childish, as well as discrediting us due to our age, putting words in our mouths, and not reading our posts, or at least applying to what we said, has me fed up.
An example, I say: "The reasons for hating Kobe weren\'t on the court, they were his attitude in the locker room, etc., as well as some of the selfish points he tried to make."
And you respond with "Disagreeing on the court is not hating."
How can someone argue when you do that?
The fact that there are several people now siding with me and NO one siding with you also should say something. Also, the fact that the main point of evidence you were using was an article that has been posted and actually works against your arguement should say something. Plus, the fact that you have to argue that several media sources made up the same story about what teammates said about Kobe says something.
And as for you losing respect for James or anyone else, the respect of someone that so few others here respect means little to nothing, at least to me, so save your childish remarks for someone else. It\'s an arguement, and anyone outside of it can see you\'ve been very much out argued. If you\'re losing respect, that says something about your maturity too. I swear, you remind me A LOT of how Clowd argued.
That is all, I won\'t be posting as part of this arguement again. I\'ll see you in other topics, where I will treat you the same as any other member. Hope you\'re mature enough to do the same
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Originally posted by shockwaves
I am done with this arguement Quddus, because I am done with you. The fact that you\'re saying HE resorted to childness when you have been attacking us a lot more than we attack you, and acting childish in calling him childish, as well as discrediting us due to our age, putting words in our mouths, and not reading our posts, or at least applying to what we said, has me fed up.
An example, I say: "The reasons for hating Kobe weren\'t on the court, they were his attitude in the locker room, etc., as well as some of the selfish points he tried to make."
And you respond with "Disagreeing on the court is not hating."
How can someone argue when you do that?
The fact that there are several people now siding with me and NO one siding with you also should say something. Also, the fact that the main point of evidence you were using was an article that has been posted and actually works against your arguement should say something. Plus, the fact that you have to argue that several media sources made up the same story about what teammates said about Kobe says something.
And as for you losing respect for James or anyone else, the respect of someone that so few others here respect means little to nothing, at least to me, so save your childish remarks for someone else. It\'s an arguement, and anyone outside of it can see you\'ve been very much out argued. If you\'re losing respect, that says something about your maturity too. I swear, you remind me A LOT of how Clowd argued.
That is all, I won\'t be posting as part of this arguement again. I\'ll see you in other topics, where I will treat you the same as any other member. Hope you\'re mature enough to do the same
Please leave the drama at the door:rolleyes:
The fact is I respect what other ppl say. Just because I choose not to agree with ppl on certain things does not mean I don\'t respect what they say. And when you thought I was personally attacking you did I not try and clear things up you?
But I expect you too side with james. And really i don\'t give a care. Don\'t know you. And will never know you. I was just merly trying to have a simple sports conversation. But I see james could not do that. If you choose to take everything you read in media word for word then thats you.
I know a lot of the stuff they print is b.s. And I wasn\'t even discrediting everything James or you said. But if you wanna try and take personal shots at me then fine be it. Because I could careless. Your opinions of me don\'t have any merit or affect on my life so who cares?
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Who is "two"
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Originally posted by ViVi
Who is "two"
some ppl say the cucumber taste better pickle
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Some people cant write without pen or pencil.
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Ha.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
First of all I will say that a lot you guys are nothing but haters. Kobe will show you all that he can lead and team an win.
:laughing:
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Owned.
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*raises hand* Hater in the house!
Man, I\'m awesome. It feels good to be right :)
See Yuz.
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Lakers are in shambles. Even worse than the Niners.
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And I couldnt be happier.
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Nor I. :laughing:
You know what\'s really funny? When Phoenix played the Lakers at Staples Center on Monday, the theme of the event was "a tribute to the 1985 world champion Lakers." They had a half time celebration, and all the old players were brought onto the floor.
Then in the second half, the new Kobe Lakers proceeded to crumble before the Suns relentless offense, and lost the game 108-97. What\'s ironic is that between the two teams, the Suns better exemplified the \'85 Lakers\' legacy of high speed transition offense and dazzling ball movement. :D
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The Suns PWNED!!! Bout time Kobe got a little in the ass..
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lol... Kobe\'s career is ruined HELL YEAH!
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Go Dallas.