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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GigaShadow on July 26, 2004, 06:41:51 AM
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SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - A state senator learned his nephew had been killed in Iraq (news - web sites) as the Illinois Senate debated death benefits for military personnel during Saturday\'s special budget session.
Republican Sen. Dave Sullivan was listening to the discussion on the Senate floor when he was told his 22-year-old nephew, Marine Lance Cpl. Vincent Sullivan, was killed Friday while serving his second tour of duty in Iraq, according to Senate Republican Leader Frank Watson.
"Suddenly and tragically, the legislation we were discussing about military benefits became starkly personal for one of our colleagues," said Watson, a Republican.
The Senate approved the legislation, which extends the state\'s traditional military death benefits to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (news - web sites), then observed a moment of silence for Sullivan and his family. The senator stayed through Saturday\'s session, helping the Senate approve a long-delayed state budget for the fiscal year that began July 1.
Vincent Sullivan was the son of the senator\'s brother, Michael Sullivan
Yeah its only the poor who join the military and die in Iraq. :rolleyes:
Michael Moore should hang his head in shame over the accusations and proganda with which he has made a fortune, that politicians (especially Republican ones) don\'t have family fighting in what he proclaims is an "unjust war".
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040725/ap_on_re_us/illinois_legislature_iraq_1
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If you\'re expecting an apology, you\'re dreaming.
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A state senator learned his nephew had been killed in Iraq
His nephew, not his SON. Man oh man, you have an axe to grind don\'t you. If the war on Iraq is such a great thing, how come the senator’s children aren’t over there, after all they approved the go on the war.
Matter of fact why don\'t you go over to Iraq, get feed rotten meals by Dick Cheney\'s Halliburton, breath in 10 times the safe level of depleted uranium, kill innocent Iraq people, rape them, torture them etc.... Then get shot or seriously injured, and see how your beloved military takes care of you just like they did with the first gulf-war veterans, oh yeah that\'s right, they don\'t take care u, instead they deny the exsistance of gulf war syndrome, while those veterans are dying slowly in extreme pain/suffering and for what? Nothing but a pawn for the bureaucrats, just like Vietnam.
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Yes I do have an axe to grind - he is a fat liar who is misleading the American public.
I was in the Army back in 1991 and have long since been retired from the armed forces. If you only knew where I was back then you would shut your hole as you have no clue what you are talking about. Oh and Nvidia this is hardly Vietnam.
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
His nephew, not his SON. Man oh man, you have an axe to grind don\'t you. If the war on Iraq is such a great thing, how come the senator’s children aren’t over there, after all they approved the go on the war.
Matter of fact why don\'t you go over to Iraq, get feed rotten meals by Dick Cheney\'s Halliburton, breath in 10 times the safe level of depleted uranium, kill innocent Iraq people, rape them, torture them etc.... Then get shot or seriously injured, and see how your beloved military takes care of you just like they did with the first gulf-war veterans, oh yeah that\'s right, they don\'t take care u, instead they deny the exsistance of gulf war syndrome, while those veterans are dying slowly in extreme pain/suffering and for what? Nothing but a pawn for the bureaucrats, just like Vietnam.
And you must have been over there right? It may be bad, but anyone that joins the Army knows what they are getting into so they should shut up and do there job. You\'re stupid to join now, unless you want to serve your country. But the people over there have nothing to complain about, and the food from what I\'ve been told ain\'t as shitty as your say 3 hot meals a day ain\'t bad to me!!!
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Originally posted by mjps21983
And you must have been over there right? It may be bad, but anyone that joins the Army knows what they are getting into so they should shut up and do there job. You\'re stupid to join now, unless you want to serve your country. But the people over there have nothing to complain about, and the food from what I\'ve been told ain\'t as shitty as your say 3 hot meals a day ain\'t bad to me!!!
Exactly, and depleted Uranium shells? That was in the first Gulf War - not this one. We had no idea those shells would have caused that much pollution as they were never used before in combat. The areas that are contaminated have been quarantined so I don\'t see any relation to being our soldiers being surrounded by toxins. Speaking of which, there are some that suspect Saddam used a nerve agent in the first Gulf War which would have caused symptoms we are finding in Gulf War Syndrome.
Sure, no one "wants" to be there, but there is a job to do and as mjps said don\'t join the military if you don\'t want to fight. It is not the job of a soldier to judge whether a war is valid or not, it is his job to do his duty. It really sickens me that a few of the families who have lost their children in this war are saying "he only served to get an education..." blah blah blah - when you take that oath you know exactly what is expected of you. Too bad if you tried to exploit the system and it backfired.
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Stupid? My friend is becoming a marine today, we\'ve been friends since 7th grade.
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What can I say other than I suggest you start reading into non-mainstream news sources, other wise if you keep reading the Big newspapers, and watch all the major news on TV, then yes the war on IRAQ is good.
However if you start doing some real unbiased investigate research, you would realize how much shit is flying out of your mouth. Its ok I understand that TV and the controlled media spoon feeds the public propaganda on a constant basis.
Exactly, and depleted Uranium shells? That was in the first Gulf War - not this one.
They are still using delpleted uranimun, thank you. See quit watching that tube, and you might learn something.
If you only knew where I was back then you would shut your hole as you have no clue what you are talking about.
If you only read over 100 newswire story\'s a day and pay close attention to the information. there would be no way for you to deny the hard cold facts laid out in front of you. Plus what does you having being in the military have to do with this war, plus if you were in the military I suggest you start talking to veterans of the first gulf war suffering now, and see what they have to say about how our wonderful our government has been treating them. Also if you so adamantly believe in this phony war, why hasn\'t a military guy like you signed up to go to Iraq and help out your fellow Americans(who were lied to), and while your at it, pick up the sons and daughters of the all the senators and take them with you.
Yes I do have an axe to grind - he is a fat liar who is misleading the American public.
This is truly classic. while I do admit Mr. Moore’s film was a shamble in the sense that he toned it down by 200% and did a little spinning, you want to talk about misleading the American people, look no further than the Bush administration(Kerry will be no different), they lied to the American people, conning them into war. Tell me, where are those weapons of mass destruction?? You realize American men and innocent Iraq people(oh course you could care less about them) died for seditious reasons. WE had no business in Iraq, Saddam Hussein was trained and created by the CIA(it\'s been admitted) and he was of no threat to our country, instead the
administration lies and tells the American people that saddam is involved with bin laden, without giving us any proof. Oh wait wasn\'t there that video with the fake fat bin laden saying he was involved with saddam, remember it was front page news, and then a week later at the very back of the newspaper in small print they admit the tape was fake, that it was not bin laden.
Anyhow you continue to believe the lies from the NEO-cons, but when they declare marshal law here, and begin to put the squeeze on us, you just remember big brother loves you, and he will take care of you, just as long as you give your liberty and freedom away.
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Hah, marshal law.
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
What can I say other than I suggest you start reading into non-mainstream news sources, other wise if you keep reading the Big newspapers, and watch all the major news on TV, then yes the war on IRAQ is good.
However if you start doing some real unbiased investigate research, you would realize how much shit is flying out of your mouth. Its ok I understand that TV and the controlled media spoon feeds the public propaganda on a constant basis.
They are still using delpleted uranimun, thank you. See quit watching that tube, and you might learn something.
If you only read over 100 newswire story\'s a day and pay close attention to the information. there would be no way for you to deny the hard cold facts laid out in front of you. Plus what does you having being in the military have to do with this war, plus if you were in the military I suggest you start talking to veterans of the first gulf war suffering now, and see what they have to say about how our wonderful our government has been treating them. Also if you so adamantly believe in this phony war, why hasn\'t a military guy like you signed up to go to Iraq and help out your fellow Americans(who were lied to), and while your at it, pick up the sons and daughters of the all the senators and take them with you.
This is truly classic. while I do admit Mr. Moore’s film was a shamble in the sense that he toned it down by 200% and did a little spinning, you want to talk about misleading the American people, look no further than the Bush administration(Kerry will be no different), they lied to the American people, conning them into war. Tell me, where are those weapons of mass destruction?? You release American men and innocent Iraq people(oh course you could care less about them) died for seditious reasons. WE had no business in Iraq, Saddam Hussein was trained and created by the CIA(it\'s been admitted) and he was of no threat to our country, instead the
administration lies and tells the American people that saddam is involved with bin laden, without giving us any proof. Oh wait wasn\'t there that video with the fake fat bin laden saying he was involved with saddam, remember it was front page news, and then a week later at the very back of the newspaper in small print they admit the tape was fake, that it was not bin laden.
Anyhow you continue to believe the lies from the NEO-cons, but when they declare marshal law here, and begin to put the squeeze on us, you just remember big brother loves you, and he will take care of you, just as long as you give your liberty and freedom away.
NVIDIA, you rock.
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^^^i second that...
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Believe it or not if Iraq was left alone rather than us messing with the region in the 80s, 90s, and then in 2003, we would have eventually have had to gone in. Saddam\'s a wacko, it doesn\'t take a brain surgeon to figure that out. If we did nothing all this time he would have conquered Iran, Kuwait and who knows what else. Is that cool with you?
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well i agree we had to do something back in 91...but saddam was as harless as a kitten before we went in & sanctions kept him in check...along with the u.s. & britain bombing strategic targets...
and yes bush had the intelligence that france russia & germany had,..but you didn\'t see none of those countries being gun-ho about invadin iraq,..and regardless if a couple of those countries had an interest in iraq prior (i think france & russia did) the u.s. did not have to invade iraq,..regardless of how bush flet about 911..that was no excuse to send our young men & women in harms way...
i say only send them in only when there is no other choice and don\'t say well if we didn\'t go in saddam was planning to attack the u.s. biologically or militarily, it wasn\'t gonna happen...
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
What can I say other than I suggest you start reading into non-mainstream news sources, other wise if you keep reading the Big newspapers, and watch all the major news on TV, then yes the war on IRAQ is good.
What is it exactly I have been "spoon fed". Sorry, your leftists propaganda ragsheets don\'t count as legitimate news sources no matter how much you wish they did.
Originally posted by NVIDIA256
However if you start doing some real unbiased investigate research, you would realize how much shit is flying out of your mouth. Its ok I understand that TV and the controlled media spoon feeds the public propaganda on a constant basis.
Since you seem to ramble on about the same thing in this paragraph see my response above.
Originally posted by NVIDIA256
They are still using delpleted uranimun, thank you. See quit watching that tube, and you might learn something.
Do you even know what depleted uranium shells are used for? Let me educate you. These shells are used against armor and in this war Saddam didn\'t have nearly the amount of armored vehicles as he did in the first one. What does this mean? It means we didn\'t use nearly as much as we did in the first war, which also means only a fraction less depleted uranium contamination this time around. We also are taking more precaution when exposing our troops to this now that it has been proven to be a problem. Me learn something? :rolleyes:
Originally posted by NVIDIA256
Plus what does you having being in the military have to do with this war, plus if you were in the military I suggest you start talking to veterans of the first gulf war suffering now, and see what they have to say about how our wonderful our government has been treating them. Also if you so adamantly believe in this phony war, why hasn\'t a military guy like you signed up to go to Iraq and help out your fellow Americans(who were lied to), and while your at it, pick up the sons and daughters of the all the senators and take them with you.
My military experience dwarfs your arm chair political analysis ten fold. Why I am not there now is really none of your business, but it is my decision. At least I did something for my country, unfortunately you can\'t say the same. I have many friends who were in the first Gulf War who I talk to on a regular basis and many there now - unfortunately your argument is based on a few news stories meant to further the liberal political agenda. If you actually knew the amount of people in real life that I know you would know most don\'t have any problems. Who were you saying was spoon fed again? You must be choking by now :rolleyes:
Originally posted by NVIDIA256
This is truly classic. while I do admit Mr. Moore’s film was a shamble in the sense that he toned it down by 200% and did a little spinning, you want to talk about misleading the American people, look no further than the Bush administration(Kerry will be no different), they lied to the American people, conning them into war. Tell me, where are those weapons of mass destruction?? You realize American men and innocent Iraq people(oh course you could care less about them) died for seditious reasons. WE had no business in Iraq, Saddam Hussein was trained and created by the CIA(it\'s been admitted) and he was of no threat to our country, instead the
administration lies and tells the American people that saddam is involved with bin laden, without giving us any proof. Oh wait wasn\'t there that video with the fake fat bin laden saying he was involved with saddam, remember it was front page news, and then a week later at the very back of the newspaper in small print they admit the tape was fake, that it was not bin laden.
There are definite links between Saddam Hussein and terrorism, whether you care to believe them or not is none of my concern. Your argument that we armed Saddam is also weak - we armed the Soviet Union in WW2 and they eventually became our enemies as well - does that make it wrong? Hardly.
Fake bin Laden admitting ties with Saddam? Sorry never saw that one. Must be more of the spoon fed media you have been watching. I think you Michael Moore have a lot in common. You both have no idea what a fact is and can\'t seem to read and digest information. Instead you take news and reword it or edit it to back up your already weak argument.
Originally posted by NVIDIA256
Anyhow you continue to believe the lies from the NEO-cons, but when they declare marshal law here, and begin to put the squeeze on us, you just remember big brother loves you, and he will take care of you, just as long as you give your liberty and freedom away.
Marshal law wouldn\'t be a bad thing - at least I wouldn\'t have to hear lies and propoganda from people like you and Michael Moore. Don\'t worry I will be sure to wear my jackboots when I kick in your door. ;) Neo Cons I love that word.
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Ok i understand ignore the facts, it\'s much eaiser to self- delude and live in denial then to deal with the harsh reality head on. No point in arguing here, no matter what I say or what ever facts I present your view isn\'t going to change, Sure you can disagree with me, but when I state hard facts and when you deny there exsistance, then it\'s quite clear that any further communication is nothing but a waste of time.
Oh and I hope that you were being sarcastic about the Marshall law statement. Apparently the so called terrorists hate us because of our freedom, yet the government is dissolving that same freedom away, which in turn is giving the terrorists (funded and created by our government to bring us into submission) what they want. Yeah makes allot of sense.
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
Ok i understand ignore the facts, it\'s much eaiser to self- delude and live in denial then to deal with the harsh reality head on. No point in arguing here, no matter what I say or what ever facts I present your view isn\'t going to change, Sure you can disagree with me, but when I state hard facts and when you deny there exsistance, then it\'s quite clear that any further communication is nothing but a waste of time.
Oh and I hope that you were being sarcastic about the Marshall law statement. Apparently the so called terrorists hate us because of our freedom, yet the government is dissolving that same freedom away, which in turn is giving the terrorists (funded and created by our government to bring us into submission) what they want. Yeah makes allot of sense.
Answer these two questions:
What "facts" am I ignoring?
What freedoms have you lost?
It seems to me you are living in a ficticious world... ahem make that faux police state where you see soldiers on every corner searching people and a camera in your apartment watching your every move. :rolleyes:
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Giga, you seem to have an obsession with Michael Moore.
I\'m not defending the dude AT ALL but seriously, you bring dude up WAY too much.
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Not only that, but he has a vendetta against leftism *oo man*. or w/e
As if its that important that you point out or label his so called stance on things. Instead of just arguing against his statements. I have respect for you but that shit is somewhat tired. This is what happens when people make "groups." Its just like a ****ing gang. You purposefully create a labeled difference between people and that alone fuels some sort of hatred towards the other group.
I cant say that im perfect either but the extent to which you express your "side" of things is pretty... what should i call it? Annoying? I dont know. But the fact of the matter is that you like to point these things out soo damn much that its almost sad.
Ok ONE ****ing senator\'s nephew, not even his son, is killed and Moore should hang his head in shame? I dont even think he mentioned other family members. If i remember correctly, he only talked about those important figures\' CHILDREN. Perhaps that is getting nitpicky but this is the first senator that we\'ve heard of with his family in the war. Yet you feel the need to make a big deal out of it.
If it were a big deal id say you should hang your head for bringing up something so stupid. Of course its not and i wouldnt wish something like that upon you.
I think giga needs to get moore off the brain. Its the people\'s fault for believing every damn thing he says. Not his. Get off it. seriously.
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Should the senators who don\'t have children in the service hang their heads in shame?
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Should the senators who don\'t have children in the service hang their heads in shame?
they should to some degree,..before the war even started there was this army general on cnn talkin about the casualties that the u.s. would take..he stated "there\'s no doubt that the u.s. will take on casualties,..but it will be very small iraq is no match for our military,..onnce we push into bagdad & remove the small resistance there it will be smooth sailing"
that cat is probably hiding under a rock now...the death toll for americans is nearly 1000 & yes me & giga have talked about this, but i was just heated in the way these commmanders throw away americans lives so recklessly,...especially since we didn\'t have to be there in the first place... it\'s like he said "it\'s ok we\'ll sacrifice a few lives for the cause but ultimately they\'ll submit to our superior military onslaught"...pathetic..
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Giga, you seem to have an obsession with Michael Moore.
I\'m not defending the dude AT ALL but seriously, you bring dude up WAY too much.
How can you not bring him up - he is everywhere! He was on O\'Reilly tonight and last night he was sitting with Jimmy Carter at the DNC! This is the current event forum isn\'t it?
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Not only that, but he has a vendetta against leftism *oo man*. or w/e
As if its that important that you point out or label his so called stance on things. Instead of just arguing against his statements. I have respect for you but that shit is somewhat tired. This is what happens when people make "groups." Its just like a ****ing gang. You purposefully create a labeled difference between people and that alone fuels some sort of hatred towards the other group.
I cant say that im perfect either but the extent to which you express your "side" of things is pretty... what should i call it? Annoying? I dont know. But the fact of the matter is that you like to point these things out soo damn much that its almost sad.
Ok ONE ****ing senator\'s nephew, not even his son, is killed and Moore should hang his head in shame? I dont even think he mentioned other family members. If i remember correctly, he only talked about those important figures\' CHILDREN. Perhaps that is getting nitpicky but this is the first senator that we\'ve heard of with his family in the war. Yet you feel the need to make a big deal out of it.
If it were a big deal id say you should hang your head for bringing up something so stupid. Of course its not and i wouldnt wish something like that upon you.
I think giga needs to get moore off the brain. Its the people\'s fault for believing every damn thing he says. Not his. Get off it. seriously.
I love getting referred to in the first and third person in the same post. :rolleyes: I can\'t even understand what the hell you are trying to say. Seriously, construct complete sentences.
Read back on the posts that refute Moore\'s claim that no son\'s or family members of congressmen are serving in Iraq or Afghanistan - if you would have comprehended what you had read if you actually read it you would have noticed this. :rolleyes:
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as if this :rolleyes: is supposed to mean much in the first place. Sigh*
Im sorry you cant understand what im saying, but plain and simple, creating a thread for the sake of ONE mans nephew is sad enough. Its funny how you find what i said so incredibly hard to comprehend that you need to talk about something else instead of the actual issue thats being debated. In the heat of the moment ( i guess you could say), I basically just typed (if that explains anything at all). Im sure you would probably say wtf didnt i look it over. Id simply tell you that it didnt mean all that much for me to do so.
F9/11, an obviously biased documentary, (or whatever you want to call it) says one thing about certain peoples posterity in the war, and people tear it down like hes so wrong because one senator\'s nephew got killed. Im not going out of my way to defend him but going out of your way to make this is somewhat extreme.
We all know you hate him. Thats nice :rolleyes:
BFD
:rolleyes:
right.
Of course with our luck, you wont understand this either. *shrugs*
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Answer these two questions:
What "facts" am I ignoring?
What freedoms have you lost?
It seems to me you are living in a ficticious world... ahem make that faux police state where you see soldiers on every corner searching people and a camera in your apartment watching your every move. :rolleyes:
I\'ve been wondering this from some time now.
Giga, where exactly do you get your "facts" from?
You can call us liberals "brainwashed" and "misinformed" but damn what the hell do you have access too that makes you so informed about events? The words that come out of Bush\'s mouth?
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God i hope not.
Then again...
That would make us all a little less wrong.
lol
j/k
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Christ ....yet another Moore thread by Giga...
Its almost as if you republicans are running scared from one fat guy who makes films with questionable materal.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Christ ....yet another Moore thread by Giga...
Its almost as if you republicans are running scared from one fat guy who makes films with questionable materal.
Sorry folks, but he is in the news every day especially with the DNC going on. If you don\'t like it, don\'t read it. BTW anyone hear about his temper tantrum at the DNC Monday when he refused to give his CNN floor pass back? Apparently he went nuts! :)
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I\'ve been wondering this from some time now.
Giga, where exactly do you get your "facts" from?
Do you read my posts Mystiq? I know you do, so I have to ask you why you even ask this question, I for the most part almost always post my sources. You should know this by now.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Christ ....yet another Moore thread by Giga...
Just remember that next time you post another Blair thread...
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Do you read my posts Mystiq? I know you do, so I have to ask you why you even ask this question, I for the most part almost always post my sources. You should know this by now.
Well recently you haven\'t posted up anything but stuff coming from anti-liberal sites. Almost as good as me posting something from liberaltopia.com.
Moore did a pretty good job stirring up the Republicans. That just makes his movie that much better. The Republicans love to tell half-truths and make everything seem one way also, so I don\'t see what they are bitching about. And don\'t tell me they don\'t because they do. They love to give a hit but hate to get one back.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Well recently you haven\'t posted up anything but stuff coming from anti-liberal sites. Almost as good as me posting something from liberaltopia.com.
Moore did a pretty good job stirring up the Republicans. That just makes his movie that much better. The Republicans love to tell half-truths and make everything seem one way also, so I don\'t see what they are bitching about. And don\'t tell me they don\'t because they do. They love to give a hit but hate to get one back.
Anti liberal sites? AP, Fox News, CNN, Yahoo? :rolleyes:
Don\'t confuse me with Gman and his http://www.moorelies.com posts. Moore did a damn good job of tricking you.
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Originally posted by Ashford
Just remember that next time you post another Blair thread...
Someone just got :wned:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Anti liberal sites? AP, Fox News, CNN, Yahoo? :rolleyes:
Don\'t confuse me with Gman and his http://www.moorelies.com posts. Moore did a damn good job of tricking you.
Could say the same thing about you and Bush.
Anti-liberal was an overstatement. I was noting that you have no special access to any documents that make you more aware of what is going on around you. All you have is your own thought and you translate news and events into your own opinion.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
How can you not bring him up - he is everywhere! He was on O\'Reilly tonight and last night he was sitting with Jimmy Carter at the DNC! This is the current event forum isn\'t it?
Its not like you just started bringing him up two days ago.