PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: videoholic on July 27, 2004, 05:09:13 PM
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Oh my. Give me a break. I\'m sorry, but if you are honestly going to stick up for Moore you seriously need your head examined.
Refering to the interview he did with Bill O\'Rielly where Bill freaking schooled Moore.
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Damn, I missed it. I hope it\'s on again.
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i\'d would have loved to have seen that...but to be honest bill o\'relliy is a f***in a$$hole! this guy thinks he is always right! he\'ll invite you to his show the guest will give his view on things then o\'reilly will come in with his,..sometimes cuttin\' the guy off and give his view like it\'s a fact & it\'s golden..i watch his show sometimes just to see how much of an ass he makes of himself!
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He didn\'t cut Moore off at all and they exchanged questions. It was completely unedited and Moore looked like an idiot. He just kept on saying the Busch was a liar.
Come on people, Busch isn\'t a liar, misinformed, well yeah, but he isn\'t a liar.
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i\'ll agree with him bein misinformed to a degree, only because colin powell in the very beginning did not agree with the intelligence...he & bush were disagreeing on the signifigance of the iraqi threat...i believe eventually they strong armed powell into making him talk about the intelligence report to the u.n.
after all powell is one of the top members in his adminstration & it would not look good if somebody in your top cabinet is disagreeing with the president..he stated shortly after that,..that this would be his last year serving as the secretary of state? <---i think that\'s what he is anyway...
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Saw it and agree with vid. Moore looked like a fool. He lost the whole mistake argument - he even reversed the question on O\'Reilly and it backfired on him! Moore\'s blind hatred impared his logic and made him look bad.
On a side note I was surprisingly impressed with Ben Affleck and the interview he gave. He was very informed and gave very sensible answers to O\'Reilly\'s questions.
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I agree about Ben Affleck, but you could tell at the end that O\'Rielly was obviously the seasoned debator. Ben was great, but he knew he was in a no win situation. PLayed it cool though and I thought he did very well.
Was absolutely floored though at the ignorance displayed by Moore. I have to assume they will air it again.
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Its too bad i missed it. What was this on?
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I read the transcript...
What on earth are you talking about "schooled Moore"?
All the dude kept saying is "I would sacrifice myself" and while Moore was putting up "let\'s suppose" questions the guy kept trying to predict how people would act.
Are you sure O\'reilly isn\'t Giga?
B/c all I heard was "You\'re an impatriotic bastard that doesn\'t believe what Bush says...and I was lied to but I\'m too American to face it..."
The guy always tried to ignore Moore\'s point and in fact never seem like he wanted to let Moore make a point. All his pro-Bush and Pro-being-lied-too propaganda bullshit made me sick. If somebody was brainwashed it was him.
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bill_oreilly
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Moore had no point. He kept saying would you send your child to fallujah to die, or whatever he said. You don\'t send your kid anywhere to die. You send your kid to defend.
I find Moore WAY more at fault with calling Busch a liar than for O\'Rielly not saying he\'d want to kill his kids.
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Moore had a one track mind during the debate and he lost. His whole killing "children" argument was a joke. Though, if I were O\'Reilly I would have said that our armed forces are not made up of children and it is on a volunteer basis. The last time I checked there was no draft and these people are serving their country - something Moore has no clue about.
Great example of Moore\'s hypocracy
O\'REILLY: Alright, you would not have removed the Taliban. You would not have removed that government?
MOORE: No, unless it is a threat to us.
O\'REILLY: Any government? Hitler, in Germany, not a threat to us the beginning but over there executing people all day long—you would have let him go?
MOORE: That’s not true. Hitler with Japan, attacked the United States.
O\'REILLY: Before—from 33-until 41 he wasn’t an imminent threat to the United States.
MOORE: There’s a lot of things we should have done.
O\'REILLY: You wouldn’t have removed him.
MOORE: I wouldn’t have even allowed him to come to power.
O\'REILLY: That was a preemption from Michael Moore—you would have invaded.
Oh and Maddox is just a wanna be Howard Stern of the internet.
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That was straight supposition from O\'Reilly.
O\'Reilly kept trying to cover Bush by saying that it was just a mistake. How do you make a mistake that would lead to the war and the death of a 1000+ soldiers. And if so many intelligence services from other countries were so sure about the WMD, why didn\'t Bush just let the inspectors finish before rushing into things?
I\'m sure it\'s alot harder to go up to the mother of a dead soldier and tell her "It\'s was a mistake about WMD, but we did find another good reason why your son died though!" than O\'Reilly made it seem.
You volunteer to go into the army in order to get out alive with some money. You don\'t see many rich kids in the military. They go in there knowing that they might get called to duty, but they trusts us that we won\'t misuse them or call them for a war that isn\'t needed as in this case.
Maddox > O\'Reilly
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The time line for this war was not as quick as you make it out to be. If I remember correctly we waited quite a bit for the inspectors to their job and each report we got from Blix told of how there was not one hundred percent cooperation from the Iraqis.
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Originally posted by Ace
The time line for this war was not as quick as you make it out to be. If I remember correctly we waited quite a bit for the inspectors to their job and each report we got from Blix told of how there was not one hundred percent cooperation from the Iraqis.
We should have waited until they were done. From what I heard the inspectors had more freedom than before. And I heard it from one from one of the inspectors. Bush should have let them finish before going into war. But he didn\'t now we have the same results except with alot more dead.
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But it always seemed that they weren\'t allowed to inspect sites until the Iraqis said it was alright. That is freaking bogus.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
You volunteer to go into the army in order to get out alive with some money. You don\'t see many rich kids in the military. They go in there knowing that they might get called to duty, but they trusts us that we won\'t misuse them or call them for a war that isn\'t needed as in this case.
WTF???? You join the military to serve your country. If you join to make money you chose the wrong career. If you die serving your country you are honored and revered. If you don\'t want to die and make money at the same time there are a million other jobs out there!
Also "rich kids" do join the military - it happens all the time. As I said before it is not a soldiers job or burden to judge what war is right and what war is wrong.
Anyway:
Save a tree
Kill a baby
Vote Democrat
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
WTF???? You join the military to serve your country. If you join to make money you chose the wrong career. If you die serving your country you are honored and revered. If you don\'t want to die and make money at the same time there are a million other jobs out there!
Also "rich kids" do join the military - it happens all the time. As I said before it is not a soldiers job or burden to judge what war is right and what war is wrong.
Anyway:
Save a tree
Kill a baby
Vote Democrat
:rolleyes:
Hmm...I thought the military gives you money or pays for your college education...
I\'m pretty sure that a kid that lives in a 8 room house with parents making a crap load of money doesn\'t need the military to get through college.
It doesn\'t matter if you think that it isn\'t a soldiers job to judge a war if it\'s right or wrong...WTH? They are the ones risking their lives and sometimes even losing them how the hell are they not going to judge? I have a hard time believing that every soldier knows the reason that they are fighting is a honest one and it\'s even sadder when they die. But who cares right it\'s not their call? They just go do the fighting for the reason they didn\'t believe in the first place right?
Lose a right
Make the rich richer
Pretend to care
Be selfish
Be told what to do
Vote Republican
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Hmm...I thought the military gives you money or pays for your college education...
I\'m pretty sure that a kid that lives in a 8 room house with parents making a crap load of money doesn\'t need the military to get through college.
It doesn\'t matter if you think that it isn\'t a soldiers job to judge a war if it\'s right or wrong...WTH? They are the ones risking their lives and sometimes even losing them how the hell are they not going to judge? I have a hard time believing that every soldier knows the reason that they are fighting is a honest one and it\'s even sadder when they die. But who cares right it\'s not their call? They just go do the fighting for the reason they didn\'t believe in the first place right?
Lose a right
Make the rich richer
Pretend to care
Be selfish
Be told what to do
Vote Republican
Mystiq - a soldiers job is to follow orders. You will never know because you don\'t have the discipline to be in the military. Soldiers do not determine what foreign policy is right and wrong - they are tools of any given nation. I don\'t know where you get this crap that our military doesn\'t believe in this war. Like I said, if you joined the military to get a free education (its called the GI Bill) and didn\'t expect to fight that is no one\'s fault but your own. Also another bit of information to further raise your IQ:
WE HAVE A PROFESSIONAL ALL VOLUNTEER MILITARY. Don\'t portray them as "they don\'t want to be there" shitty attitude crap - there is no draft - your Vietnam era anti war rhetoric is 35 years too late.
List some sources that say the overwhelming majority of the military opposes this war. You can\'t.
As for your silly counter to my sarcastic remark:
Lose a right? Name one.
Make the rich richer. That would be your boy Kerry who is much richer than Bush.
Pretend to care. Once again that would be Kerry paying lip service to the NAACP.
Be selfish?????
Be told what to do. What have you been told to do? Is this a police state? If you think it is go join your pal nvidia and talk about how our government flew remote control planes into the WTC.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
WE HAVE A PROFESSIONAL ALL VOLUNTEER MILITARY. (1)Don\'t portray them as "they don\'t want to be there" shitty attitude crap - there is no draft - your Vietnam era anti war rhetoric is 35 years too late.
List some sources that say the overwhelming majority of the military opposes this war. You can\'t.
As for your silly counter to my sarcastic remark:
(2)Make the rich richer. That would be your boy Kerry who is much richer than Bush.
(3)Pretend to care. Once again that would be Kerry paying lip service to the NAACP.
1) I think hes talking about the soldiers going in not knowing what they were getting themselves into. Its just like nam in the fact that nobody expected things to go how they went. You cant tell me that there isnt a population of troops that dont want to be there. Now im not saying all, Im just saying a population. From the way things sound, Proud To Be was in the same boat (though im not exactly sure).
2) What does Kerry being richer have anything to do with making the actuall people (that is who we are talking about right?) richer? Sure to some extent this statement makes sense, but it really doesnt prove the point youre trying to make.
3) Prove it.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
1) I think hes talking about the soldiers going in not knowing what they were getting themselves into. Its just like nam in the fact that nobody expected things to go how they went. You cant tell me that there isnt a population of troops that dont want to be there. Now im not saying all, Im just saying a population. From the way things sound, Proud To Be was in the same boat (though im not exactly sure).
2) What does Kerry being richer have anything to do with making the actuall people (that is who we are talking about right?) richer? Sure to some extent this statement makes sense, but it really doesnt prove the point youre trying to make.
3) Prove it.
i\'ll just point out the part of proud to be...i asked him does he think it\'s a just war he\'s fightin\' & he stated he doesn\'t get involved in politics,..he\'s there to do a job...i really didn\'t want to get into with him since he is over there risking his life,...but if i was going to war it better be for a damn good reason...
yea when you join there\'s always that possibility to fight but the attitude of don\'t ask questions & go & die for the masses doesn\'t cut it with me....sounds as if the soldiers are just brainwashed drones..not all of them tho...
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Originally posted by clips
i\'ll just point out the part of proud to be...i asked him does he think it\'s a just war he\'s fightin\' & he stated he doesn\'t get involved in politics,..he\'s there to do a job.
I believe you just made my point. For the most part they don\'t care about the politics of a war - they are there to "do a job".
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I understand that point perfectly, but such a "job" should entitle more than just doing it. I know this is far fetched but suppose you were fighting to oppress a group of foreign people and make their lives a living hell. See, its not just about doing your job. Fighting a war is a lot more serious than just doing it.
I hope you arent telling me that because it is a job, a soldier must fight regardless of the reason. If so thats a crock of shit and whoever would do that has no conscience whatsoever. Blind faith in ones government is in no way patriotic.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Mystiq - a soldiers job is to follow orders. You will never know because you don\'t have the discipline to be in the military. Soldiers do not determine what foreign policy is right and wrong - they are tools of any given nation. I don\'t know where you get this crap that our military doesn\'t believe in this war. Like I said, if you joined the military to get a free education (its called the GI Bill) and didn\'t expect to fight that is no one\'s fault but your own. Also another bit of information to further raise your IQ:
WE HAVE A PROFESSIONAL ALL VOLUNTEER MILITARY. Don\'t portray them as "they don\'t want to be there" shitty attitude crap - there is no draft - your Vietnam era anti war rhetoric is 35 years too late.
List some sources that say the overwhelming majority of the military opposes this war. You can\'t.
As for your silly counter to my sarcastic remark:
Lose a right? Name one.
Make the rich richer. That would be your boy Kerry who is much richer than Bush.
Pretend to care. Once again that would be Kerry paying lip service to the NAACP.
Be selfish?????
Be told what to do. What have you been told to do? Is this a police state? If you think it is go join your pal nvidia and talk about how our government flew remote control planes into the WTC.
HAHAHA...So what you are saying is that it\'s OK for a President to send soldiers to die for a reason that never existed because that\'s what they knew they were getting into?
Hmm...I believe that most people that joing the military...go look around the recruiting offices...are young people that go in there for their country and the hopes for a better education. I bet 90 percent of the people in the military are there for the same reason. To get an EDUCATION which they can\'t afford. It\'s not that they didn\'t expect to fight but they knew the cost of a better education would be to fight. You say it like all of those soldiers are up there for one particular reason and the fact is that it isn\'t.
The army advertises getting an "education" and how it would pay for your college education. That is the main driving point of the military and you would be fooling yourself to think otherwise. That\'s why my cousins joined the military, b/c their parents don\'t own private companies or make over 100000 dollars and get special tax cuts. If there is anything that stuck out about Moore\'s movie that that one fact, the military is made up of alot of hopeful people just wanting to be stronger, smarter and at the same time be able to improve their lives by getting into college.
It\'s sad that you see them as "tools" of a country. I understand that they really don\'t have a choice, but once again I think that any soldier would agree that a reason to go to war must be a damn good one. The reason for ANY war must be a good one.
In our school the recruiters came by so many times. We even got visitors from other schools (Highland High-the richest school in the Dallas area) had some students visit our school b/c the recruiters doesn\'t visit theirs.
Lose rights? See "The Patriot Act"
Make the rich richer... I was talking about the people...Wow Giga you even have access to Bush\'s bank account?
Pretend to care...Well Bush was the one that said "I know. I know. I know." and talked about how much there is to fix with the Reps and the black community. No Child Left Behind? Healthcare? Gas prices? The fact that Osama hasn\'t been captured? Safety of the American people? BTW isn\'t Bush on vacation right now?
Selfish...Iraq, tax cuts, education funding, environmental protection funding...and so on
Being told what to do...People aren\'t allowed to love who they want to. The "alerts" of a possible terrorism attack...women not being able to make their own decisions...
Not enough discipline?
Hmm...and you know this how?
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Ok well first off to say that bush sent those alone is false. The CIA gave evidence that there was WMD\'s in Iraq and it was a "Slam Dunk". If you had information that Iraq had WMD\'s when they were STRICTLY prohibited in that country I believe everyone would invade. John Kerry himself stated that "To leave Saddam with Nuclear Weapons is a crime". The fact is that people believe Bush made up all this stuff and just wanted to invade for oil.... which I mean looking at the gas prices that isnt the case.
Now the military issue. If someone joins the army they should expect they have to go to war no matter what the reason. If there country needs them then they do what they signed up for. We know that most of the men and women in the military sign up for college but a lot sign up to protect there country. A huge number of soldiers signed up after 9/11 to get revenge for there fallen citizens and to kill terrorists.
I dont get how you can say that people who pay taxes shouldnt get there tax cut. This isnt welfare buddy. People who pay income tax pay a huge amount 50% in California. And John Kerry wants to raise that which is a joke. Lets face it some jobs pay more because they DO MORE AND THEY WORKED HARDER FOR IT.
52 million babies aborted this year. I HAVE THE CHOICE TO KILL BABIES. But ill be damned if you kill that tree.
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but the fact remains that colin powell did not agree with intelligence from the jumpoff...that\'s why he & rumsfield had a big beef over it...he reapeatedly told he & bush that he was not going to go to the u.n. unless he had solid info...when they finally gave some type of credible info.(the info he went over when he spoke to the u.n.) even then he didn\'t want to recite the intelligence,..which leads me to believe he was strong armed into doing it...
and let\'s be honest, bush wanted to go to war no matter what,..it amazes me how people forget how he acted up to the point of war...i feel for some of the soldiers over there..i\'ve heard them say "well maybe we didn\'t find the weapons, but at least we liberated the iraqi people"....that\'s bulls**t,..the war went from finding wmd\'s to a liberation mission?...let\'s see if the u.s. will liberate all those poor oppressed countries in africa..:rolleyes: ...i don\'t think so...
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So basically you\'re just guessing. Thanks for your time.
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Originally posted by Hawken
So basically you\'re just guessing. Thanks for your time.
it doesn\'t take a rocket scientist to read between the lines...before the u.s. went to war it was well known that colin powell & rumsfield didn\'t see eye to eye on iraq..i\'m guessing?..i don\'t think so..
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someone post the damn transcript already
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Originally posted by Hawken
Lets face it some jobs pay more because they DO MORE AND THEY WORKED HARDER FOR IT.
They deserve their salary because they went to school and got the training and education that is the requirement of a high paying job. A CEO of a Fortune 500 company doesn\'t work harder for his check than the janitor of the same company.
Originally posted by Hawken
52 million babies aborted this year. I HAVE THE CHOICE TO KILL BABIES. But ill be damned if you kill that tree.
So what you are saying is that all Liberals are tree huggers?
That generalization doesn\'t make you look like an idiot at all.[/Sarcasm]
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Originally posted by Jumpman
someone post the damn transcript already
read this...
http://english.pravda.ru/world/2002/09/03/35868.html
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Anyone who says that the rich do not join the military is very misinformed.
The Navy Academy in Annapolis, Maryland is chockful of rich kids. Same with West Point and the Air Force Academy. Many of the graduates go on to officer duty in the military.
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They deserve their salary because they went to school and got the training and education that is the requirement of a high paying job. A CEO of a Fortune 500 company doesn\'t work harder for his check than the janitor of the same company.
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huh? A janitor works just as hard as a CEO? Wow.... Ok listen everyone has a chance to go to college with no money its called a scholorship and work. If you dont get a scholorship you work. Rich people have the choice to pay there kids college since they obviously worked very hard to give that gift to his kids. You make it sound like poor people are damned to be janitors.
And I dont want to hear this Colin Powell shit. You never really answered my question. The RUSSIANS THE US AND THE BRITISH GAVE THE PRESIDENT A HUGE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THEY HAD WMD\'s. With that information it would have been a crime not to invade iraq. And now you must be saying where are the WMD\'s? Well we will find them eventually we\'ve had way to many old iraqi scientists say that he built them. In time we will find them and you will eat your own words.
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Originally posted by Hawken
They deserve their salary because they went to school and got the training and education that is the requirement of a high paying job. A CEO of a Fortune 500 company doesn\'t work harder for his check than the janitor of the same company.
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huh? A janitor works just as hard as a CEO? Wow.... Ok listen everyone has a chance to go to college with no money its called a scholorship and work. If you dont get a scholorship you work. Rich people have the choice to pay there kids college since they obviously worked very hard to give that gift to his kids. You make it sound like poor people are damned to be janitors.
And I dont want to hear this Colin Powell shit. You never really answered my question. The RUSSIANS THE US AND THE BRITISH GAVE THE PRESIDENT A HUGE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THEY HAD WMD\'s. With that information it would have been a crime not to invade iraq. And now you must be saying where are the WMD\'s? Well we will find them eventually we\'ve had way to many old iraqi scientists say that he built them. In time we will find them and you will eat your own words.
If the evidence was so strong as to say that Iraq did have the weapons, then wouldn\'t the inspectors find them sooner or later? And if so, why didn\'t Bush\'s Gov. show this hard factual evidence to UN instead of cramming the US military in there and losing so many lives only to later find out that the "evidence" was a bunch of bull shit. His own people were debating over the intelligence and that intelligence, the one you claim Russia and Britain gave the Bush Gov. what was the evidence anyways.
9/11 had nothing to do with the war in Iraq. So for a soldier to sign up after it would probably mean that they just wanted to get revenge over in Afghanistan, Iraq came a bit after that but because they were already enlisted they had no choice.
You talk about getting an education as if it were such an easy task. The military pushes the whole "we\'ll pay for your education" because they know that kid\'s that aren\'t lucky enough to get a scholarship and don\'t have jobs that can help them pay college tuition will be hypnotized to join up.
The majority of the military is made up of those kind of people and you\'ll be a damn liar to say otherwise.
Now they are dying b/c of a President that decided to attack with a blind fold. You say he had all this "evidence" and decided to act quickly about it. Hmm, where was this kind of enthusiasm before 9/11 and after all of those reports suggested a possible attack with airplanes?
Bin laden determined to attack inside the US.
Bin laden\'s kids in flight schools.
...
...
Hmmmmm, anybody with a brain would of done something about that connection.
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Originally posted by Hawken
huh? A janitor works just as hard as a CEO? Wow.... Ok listen everyone has a chance to go to college with no money its called a scholorship and work. If you dont get a scholorship you work. Rich people have the choice to pay there kids college since they obviously worked very hard to give that gift to his kids. You make it sound like poor people are damned to be janitors.
You seem to have missed the point of my post. I never said that poor people are "damned to be janitors". I said that people in high paying jobs deserve their checks because they went through the process necessary to get those jobs. I have no idea where you are going with that rich kids thing so I\'ll leave that alone.
If you read my post you will see that I am agreeing in that they "worked harder" to get their job. I am, however, disagreeing in the assumption that they STILL work harder for their check.
They bust their butt to get their job so that they don\'t have to bust their butt in the job. No one goes through 8 years of higher education in order to be a landscaper.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
If the evidence was so strong as to say that Iraq did have the weapons, then wouldn\'t the inspectors find them sooner or later?
You talk about getting an education as if it were such an easy task. The military pushes the whole "we\'ll pay for your education" because they know that kid\'s that aren\'t lucky enough to get a scholarship and don\'t have jobs that can help them pay college tuition will be hypnotized to join up.
The majority of the military is made up of those kind of people and you\'ll be a damn liar to say otherwise.
Now they are dying b/c of a President that decided to attack with a blind fold. You say he had all this "evidence" and decided to act quickly about it. Hmm, where was this kind of enthusiasm before 9/11 and after all of those reports suggested a possible attack with airplanes?
Bin laden determined to attack inside the US.
Bin laden\'s kids in flight schools.
...
...
Hmmmmm, anybody with a brain would of done something about that connection.
The UN couldn\'t do its job in Iraq. Why? Partly because the Iraqi\'s put up smoke mirrors to prevent anything being found and secondly because of certain under the table ties a certain country that sits on the Security Council had with the former regime.
The military does not soley advertise the GI Bill as a reason to join up and if someone joins the military and thinks they are going to get a free ride they deserve what they get. Stop with the defense that "poor kids" blah blah boo hoo... you really don\'t understand. Anyone can go to college with grades - Student Loans, Grants, Scholarships... there are many alternative to joining the military. The military is not vastly made up of people who want "free" college either. A good number never go to college because they don\'t want to. The vast majority who have joined the military do so because they want to serve their country. Now do everyone a favor and get off the "poor boy" kick you peasant. :rolleyes:
As far as the attacks of 9/11 are concerned - don\'t blame Bush, it took a long time to plan those attacks and most of the plans were done during Clinton\'s watch.
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Dont give me that. People who sign up in the military know what they are getting into. There is no....... Ya they are fighting a war in iraq so ill sign up and Ill just stay here a train. If you really wanted an education and not protect your country then you would have joined the US Coast Guard or the Navy.
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They bust their butt to get their job so that they don\'t have to bust their butt in the job. No one goes through 8 years of higher education in order to be a landscaper.
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Wow so what your saying is that they have a piss easy job now? CEO works much much harder than a janitor.
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Office work is piss easy compared to manual labor. To say otherwise would be just wrong.
A CEO may have more responsibility and accountability but their job is not hard compared to most manual labor jobs.
Tell me exactly how a CEO works harder than a janitor. Make sure you focus on how their job is so much harder that they deserve hundreds of thousands more dollars.
If they got paid exactly the same, what job do you think people would take(desk jockey or janitor)?
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I dont call being a janitor heavy manual labor. All you do is clean shit. This is the easy solution to this. Can a Janitor be a CEO? No, but can a CEO clean stuff? Yes a CEO can complete that easily. A CEO has to talk to a lot of people and has to know how to run a company. He has to do a lot of paperwork and make decisions. Dont even try to bring up that being a janitor is manual labor.
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The reason a CEO knows how to run a company is because they earned their dues by getting the training and experience necessary to do so. THIS is why they get the big money.
It is not because they work harder.
All I am arguing is that a CEO does not work harder than the "plebeians" that work under him in the company. If hard work was a prerequesite for large paychecks the entire financial landscape of the world would look entirely diferent.
I suppose we have different opinions on hard work. I, for one, think that sitting at a desk and performing tasks that I have been trained to do for YEARS is easier than standing for eight hours and cleaning up everyone else\'s filth.
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If a janitor screws up and forgets to clean the piss drops off the seat the stock won\'t drop 10% and get investors to jump ship.
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ROFL!!! Have you ever thought that maybe CEO\'s dont just run there company but they build them up. Many CEO\'s started from scratch.
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Just because someones job isn\'t physically exhausting, doesn\'t mean that it isn\'t equally, or more so mentally exhausting. The stress levels of someone with that much responsibilty can be far more harmful (mentally and physically) than someone who digs holes and mixes concrete for a living.
That being said, the people with the high responsibility don\'t necessarily work harder, just.. differently.
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Originally posted by videoholic
If a janitor screws up and forgets to clean the piss drops off the seat the stock won\'t drop 10% and get investors to jump ship.
They are responsible and need to be held accountable for what they do. That does not necessarily mean that they work "harder". Hard work, I suppose, is relative.
Originally posted by Hawken
ROFL!!! Have you ever thought that maybe CEO\'s dont just run there company but they build them up. Many CEO\'s started from scratch.
You are an idiot. What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Just because someones job isn\'t physically exhausting, doesn\'t mean that it isn\'t equally, or more so mentally exhausting. The stress levels of someone with that much responsibilty can be far more harmful (mentally and physically) than someone who digs holes and mixes concrete for a living.
That being said, the people with the high responsibility don\'t necessarily work harder, just.. differently.
That is probably the best way to put it and also end the discussion. Not harder just differently.
No point in arguing semantics.
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Black Samurai you didnt even answer one of our questions once again.
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Originally posted by Hawken
Black Samurai you didnt even answer one of our questions once again.
What questions were these? I\'m looking up at your (and videoholics) post(s) in between Soul Reavers last two posts (as, to bring this up now you must surely be referring to questions in those particular posts) and not only do I not see any questions, but I don\'t even see any question marks! To make matters worse, the only thing that even resembles a question fails to have a question mark at the end of it and is clearly rhetorical. If, however, you decided to be very abstract and make your post in reference to a post higher up the page, I only see a few questions which you happen to answer YOURSELF negating the necessity of a response from Black Samurai. So you never really needed Black Samurai to answer any questions particularly because you never even seemed to ask any questions in any of your previous posts! Nor did anyone else, seeing as you decided to use the word "our" instead of "my"!
:stick:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
The UN couldn\'t do its job in Iraq. Why? Partly because the Iraqi\'s put up smoke mirrors to prevent anything being found and secondly because of certain under the table ties a certain country that sits on the Security Council had with the former regime.
The military does not soley advertise the GI Bill as a reason to join up and if someone joins the military and thinks they are going to get a free ride they deserve what they get. Stop with the defense that "poor kids" blah blah boo hoo... you really don\'t understand. Anyone can go to college with grades - Student Loans, Grants, Scholarships... there are many alternative to joining the military. The military is not vastly made up of people who want "free" college either. A good number never go to college because they don\'t want to. The vast majority who have joined the military do so because they want to serve their country. Now do everyone a favor and get off the "poor boy" kick you peasant. :rolleyes:
As far as the attacks of 9/11 are concerned - don\'t blame Bush, it took a long time to plan those attacks and most of the plans were done during Clinton\'s watch.
The military doesn\'t soley advertise the GI bill? Maybe you should stop by their recruiting offices and check out the stuff glued on their windows.
50,000 College Tuition!
Get an Education!
and so many more...
I never said that the GI Bill was the only reason that soldiers join but it\'s one of the many reasons why teenagers that don\'t have enough money to join do so. And no I\'m not going to get off the "poor boy" because you decide that those soldiers dying out there should of known what they had coming when our President sent them to war under false evidence. I\'m sure all of the soldiers joined in order to serve their country but they all have their own personal reasons.
In 1991 receiving money and education benefits as well as to get training were the primary reaons people gave to join the military. You can say "it\'s 1991" but with the way the economy slumped for the last couple of years I\'m pretty sure the intentions haven\'t changed.
http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR323/mr323.ch13.pdf
Meanwhile, almost 37 percent of those who do join the Army -- many receiving incentives such as college-tuition aid of $50,000, in addition to a $19,000 enlistment bonus per soldier --
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18450
Yeah the attacks took a long time I\'ll give you that. Clinton was at fault as well as Bush. I just don\'t find the "intelligence" in the CIA or the FBI or whatever. The connection was too strong for Bush not to have done anything about it.
Are you talking about the time when Bush\'s dad was friendly with Saddam?
I think it\'s sad that we caught a guy that had nothing to do with anything about 9/11, in the process lost so many soldiers and we haven\'t even caught the one that actually killed all of those poor people. We haven\'t heard anything about Afghanistan or Laden.
But hey I guess killing thousands of your people in your country is a bigger crime than killing thousands of our people in our country.
http://www.rense.com/general34/realre.htm
^^
I found that just for Nvidia...I scanned it so I don\'t know that it\'s all about...except some kind of conspiracy.
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Anyone can be a janitor. Hell, you only need basic common sense to be a janitor. Hence why it\'s a low ass paying dirty and sometimes difficult job.
To be a CEO, unless you inherit the position or you invented the first bread slicer, you have to work your way up. And just to get yer foot in the door, you need more than just yer basic college education. Sometimes a Masters degree is required.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
The military doesn\'t soley advertise the GI bill? Maybe you should stop by their recruiting offices and check out the stuff glued on their windows.
50,000 College Tuition!
Get an Education!
and so many more...
I never said that the GI Bill was the only reason that soldiers join but it\'s one of the many reasons why teenagers that don\'t have enough money to join do so. And no I\'m not going to get off the "poor boy" because you decide that those soldiers dying out there should of known what they had coming when our President sent them to war under false evidence.
Your lame attempt to make this a class warfare argument just reinforces my opinion of your ignorance. People from all social backgrounds join the military - not just the poor. As I said before there are other alternatives to getting a college education - that is a fact. Now, please STFU about how you think the army is luring volunteers under false pretenses. If you are too stupid realize you are joining the military and the job of the military is to fight for this country then you are obviously too stupid to even consider going to college. Part of the risk of being in the military is you might very well die in a conflict, regardless of whether some think it is wrong. Is that too hard to understand Mystiq?
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Usually would take the more liberal side of this, but I do side with Giga, it\'s not just the poorer classes that join up with the Army.
My pa makes about 35 thousand a year, and thankfully is paying for my College Tuition...kind of. I\'m going to the University of Nebraska-Lincoln (same town where I live). After filling out all of the FAFSA information back on February, and doing fairly well on the ACT (the only one that matters around here), I\'m getting about 2,550 in Grants per semester for my Freshman year. With that, I\'ll be paying about Two Dollars for my Tuition and Fees for the first semester, along with the One thousand dollars for Books and whatnot. Basically, the bare minimum that I\'ll be putting into college for my Freshman year is about 2,000, which is mainly for books and whatnot.
Now, I have a ton of friends that are enlisting in the Army (The Midwestern states usually have more people that enlist per person than any other states), and whereas more of them are on the shorter end of the stick, there are a few who could very easily go to College, but quite simply don\'t want to. When talking to most of those friends about their reasons for going into the Army, most of the time it wasn\'t to seek an education -- it was to serve the country.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Your lame attempt to make this a class warfare argument just reinforces my opinion of your ignorance. People from all social backgrounds join the military - not just the poor. As I said before there are other alternatives to getting a college education - that is a fact. Now, please STFU about how you think the army is luring volunteers under false pretenses. If you are too stupid realize you are joining the military and the job of the military is to fight for this country then you are obviously too stupid to even consider going to college. Part of the risk of being in the military is you might very well die in a conflict, regardless of whether some think it is wrong. Is that too hard to understand Mystiq?
Like I said before, I never said that only poor people join the military. The GI Bill is one of the main things ADVERTISED by the military, that and the "see the world" and the "be somebody" message.
Who the hell said the army is luring volunteers under false pretenses? I never said that, so please STFU and stop putting words in my mouth. The only person luring people is GWB.
Maybe you need to stop making assumptions. I don\'t know if you\'re too stupid too know how to do that. I said that all people that join the army know what they are getting into.
As for the "Part of the risk..." speech, I just think it\'s sad when so many of our soldiers are dying for a single man\'s personal agenda.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Who the hell said the army is luring volunteers under false pretenses? I never said that, so please STFU and stop putting words in my mouth. The only person luring people is GWB.
Maybe you need to stop making assumptions. I don\'t know if you\'re too stupid too know how to do that. I said that all people that join the army know what they are getting into.
As for the "Part of the risk..." speech, I just think it\'s sad when so many of our soldiers are dying for a single man\'s personal agenda.
You said it idiot.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
You talk about getting an education as if it were such an easy task. The military pushes the whole "we\'ll pay for your education" because they know that kid\'s that aren\'t lucky enough to get a scholarship and don\'t have jobs that can help them pay college tuition will be hypnotized to join up.
You never said that? Clearly no assumption was made. Must you be proven wrong over and over again? You can\'t even remember what you say let alone present a logical argument. Now sit down "Ms. tiq".
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Butt raped and Owned. :p
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Anyone have the video of Moore and O\'Reilly? I\'d like to see it.
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Taken from BillOReilly.com
We debated for ten minutes and Moore put forth the following:
- That President Bush "lied" about Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction even though the 9/11 Commission, the Senate Intelligence Committee Investigation and Lord Butler\'s British Investigation all say Bush did not lie.
- Moore defines a "lie" as anything that turns out not to be true. By following this logic, weather forecasters everywhere must now be categorized as pathologically dishonest.
- Moore said he would not have attacked the Taliban government in Afghanistan after the 9/11 attack. Instead, he would have captured Bin laden by using "commandos." Apparently, Moore believes the Taliban would have allowed his "commandos" to root out Osama and his boys with impunity. Moore related the "commando" strategy to me with a straight face.
- Moore denied that Ronald Reagan\'s arms build up had anything to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union and freedom for Eastern Europe.
- The filmmaker then went on to say that pre-emptive war is wrong and would have been immoral even in the case of Adolf Hitler. Moore said he would have prevented Hitler from assuming power in the first place. I didn\'t have time ask him how he would have done that but I assume commandos would have been involved.
:laughing:
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That last point was hilarious! :D :laughing:
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Originally posted by Hawken
They deserve their salary because they went to school and got the training and education that is the requirement of a high paying job. A CEO of a Fortune 500 company doesn\'t work harder for his check than the janitor of the same company.
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huh? A janitor works just as hard as a CEO? Wow.... Ok listen everyone has a chance to go to college with no money its called a scholorship and work. If you dont get a scholorship you work. Rich people have the choice to pay there kids college since they obviously worked very hard to give that gift to his kids. You make it sound like poor people are damned to be janitors.
And I dont want to hear this Colin Powell shit. You never really answered my question. The RUSSIANS THE US AND THE BRITISH GAVE THE PRESIDENT A HUGE AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THEY HAD WMD\'s. With that information it would have been a crime not to invade iraq. And now you must be saying where are the WMD\'s? Well we will find them eventually we\'ve had way to many old iraqi scientists say that he built them. In time we will find them and you will eat your own words.
did you even read the link? yes they all gave the u.s. the intelligence & powell didn\'t agree with it at first,...he told bush & co. that he would not go in front of the u.n. with speculative evidence...and yes no wmd\'s..bush made it seem like as soon as you went over there you would practically trip over them...now that we can\'t find them, and damn near 1000 american lives lost, you want to turn around and say "well uh at least we liberated iraq!" :rolleyes: that\'s bulls**t! at the iraqi people are better off than they were when saddam was in power? nope i don\'t think so!
do you see all that mass destruction that takes place daily over there? even in the so called "green zones?" (safety zones) they are bombing bldgs at will & the u.s. cannot stop it..even with their superior military might, a small few are causing havoc that the u.s. cannot contain...then we backtrack & say "uhm ok it\'s time for the iraqi\'s to defend their land"...pathetic...
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
You said it idiot.
You never said that? Clearly no assumption was made. Must you be proven wrong over and over again? You can\'t even remember what you say let alone present a logical argument. Now sit down "Ms. tiq".
HAHAHA...You love taking stuff literal don\'t you. It\'s the only way you can make your point.
The army is luring people with the GI Bill. I never said it was a false pretences.
And again you can take it as you like but I never intended to say or let alone imply that only poor people join the military.
And Gman get off Giga\'s balls would ya?
I agree with this guy^^^^^^
But you know what I agree with all the Republicans. Too God damn bad so many soldiers died over something that wasn\'t true. GWB and other leaders made a mistake. It happens. We are all humans and therefore Bush shouln\'t be blamed for the deaths of our soldiers whom for he cares so much that listened to other leaders, got in to this war with nobody behind him and now is screwing our soldiers over. TOO BAD. He doesn\'t like minorites therefore I like him.
Pshh...The Government and intelligence don\'t go together anymore since Sept. 11
And Giga before you say anything when I said "nobody" was behind him it doesn\'t literally mean "nobody" It\'s an overstatement which can serve as propaganda.
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God damn O\'Reilly is a masterful debater!
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
HAHAHA...You love taking stuff literal don\'t you. It\'s the only way you can make your point.
The army is luring people with the GI Bill. I never said it was a false pretences.
And again you can take it as you like but I never intended to say or let alone imply that only poor people join the military.
And Gman get off Giga\'s balls would ya?
I agree with this guy^^^^^^
But you know what I agree with all the Republicans. Too God damn bad so many soldiers died over something that wasn\'t true. GWB and other leaders made a mistake. It happens. We are all humans and therefore Bush shouln\'t be blamed for the deaths of our soldiers whom for he cares so much that listened to other leaders, got in to this war with nobody behind him and now is screwing our soldiers over. TOO BAD. He doesn\'t like minorites therefore I like him.
Pshh...The Government and intelligence don\'t go together anymore since Sept. 11
And Giga before you say anything when I said "nobody" was behind him it doesn\'t literally mean "nobody" It\'s an overstatement which can serve as propaganda.
Oh now it was a joke?!?! yeah whatever Ms. Tiq. Just STFU please. As for the rest of your temper tantrum... :rolleyes:
Also a question - Bush "doesn\'t like minorities therefore you like him?" :laughing:
Bush speaks fluent Spanish and has Hispanic family members, I fail to see any facts backing your weak accusations.