PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => PS3 Discussion => Topic started by: Kurt Angle on August 04, 2004, 12:24:09 PM
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Sony hopes the move will help jump-start the market for the new high-storage format.
TOKYO--According to Kyodo News, Sony officials announced today that they will use Blu-ray Disc technology in their next-generation console, most commonly referred to as the PlayStation 3. Sony revealed its decision at a press conference held by the Blu-ray Disc Founders (BDF), an organization committed to developing and standardizing the next-generation optical disc format. The BDF also used the occasion to announce that it will finalize the specifications for the read-only version of Blu-ray Discs (BD-ROMs) by September 30.
Sony has been investing heavily into Blu-ray product development and was the first company to have a disc recorder on the market. The company had previously hinted that it may use the format in the PS3. Sony\'s Blu-ray Disc R&D division chief Kiyoshi Nishitani commented in an interview with Asahi PC magazine in March that the company would like to establish ground in the Blu-ray Disc market by adopting BD-ROMs for its "home video game console."
The Blu-ray Disc Founders organization is composed of Sony, Panasonic, and 11 other major electronic makers. Like its predecessor, the DVD, the BD-ROM will primarily be used for movies. The companies plan to start marketing Blu-ray Disc playback machines (without recording capabilities) by the end of the fiscal year.
Sony is relying heavily on the Blu-ray Disc format, so the use of Blu-ray as the market standard in next-generation media is vital, especially since the company also publishes movies through its Sony Pictures subsidiary. Adopting the Blu-ray Disc for the PS3 should help spread use of the format, similar to what the PlayStation 2 did for DVDs.
Early expansion of the Blu-ray format would be ideal for Sony, considering it will have to compete with high-definition DVDs (HD DVD) in the future. Blu-ray Discs can hold 25GB on a single layer and 50GB on the dual-layer discs, while HD DVD discs--which have yet to be released--will hold only 30GB on a dual-layered disc. However, HD DVD has the upper hand when it comes to convenience, as its players will be backward-compatible with current DVDs. Sony did not say whether the PS3 would be able to play DVDs or will be backward-compatible with PS2 games.
Sony said it will reveal more details on the PlayStation 3 at a premiere event in Japan on March 31, 2005. The console will also be on display at next year\'s E3 in Los Angeles.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/04/news_6104095.html
:eek:
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Excellent..
When are the BR players coming out anyways? Before PS3 I hope, to eliminate any early problems.
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i think i\'ll wait until the 2nd batch of ps3\'s come out..so they can work out the bugs..;)
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HD DVD has the upper hand when it comes to convenience, as its players will be backward-compatible with current DVDs. Sony did not say whether the PS3 would be able to play DVDs or will be backward-compatible with PS2 games.
this is bull. PS3 can be backward compatible with dvd and cd by using their cost saving 3 in 1 lasers. By using 3 seperate lasers is much better than 3 in 1, but either works just fine.
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Originally posted by clips
i think i\'ll wait until the 2nd batch of ps3\'s come out..so they can work out the bugs..;)
Screw that. I dont think i could wait when everybody but me has one. I know its stupid but hey, Im gettin a damn ps3 when it comes out. well.... we\'ll see when it comes out.
this is bull. PS3 can be backward compatible with dvd and cd by using their cost saving 3 in 1 lasers. By using 3 seperate lasers is much better than 3 in 1, but either works just fine.
I could have swore the thing was going to be backwards compatible with ps1/2. What the hell. It would be one hell of a space saver. And about BR. Could they still be used if the machine was backwards compatible?
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eh? it says "Sony did not say." Don\'t assume just yet.
Blu-Ray in America = 2005.
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I think Sony is just being tight lips about it. Blu Ray seem to be coming out in 2006.
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Cool stuff.
Besides saving space, will the blue laser help with speed too?
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Red Laser = 11.08mbps
Blue Laser = 36mbps
More than 3x the bandwidth so yes load times will decrease assuming there is ample processing power and little bandwidth restrictions.
Columbia has pledged to "release all of its home video products in the Blu-ray format by the end of 2005." But the BR Group is saying late \'05 or early \'06. NEC & Toshiba are now saying 2005 for HDVD. The sooner the better, a year is a long time from now and competition always speeds things up.
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I think they are still working on speeding up the read time.
Now its currently read up to 36 mbits. It would be cool if they could increase it to 40 mbits, 50 mbits and higher.
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Originally posted by THX
Red Laser = 11.08mbps
Blue Laser = 36mbps
More than 3x the bandwidth so yes load times will decrease assuming there is ample processing power and little bandwidth restrictions.
Columbia has pledged to "release all of its home video products in the Blu-ray format by the end of 2005." But the BR Group is saying late \'05 or early \'06. NEC & Toshiba are now saying 2005 for HDVD. The sooner the better, a year is a long time from now and competition always speeds things up.
How can you be sure it\'ll decrease since next generation obviously will have to load a lot more resources. I\'m expecting about the same load times.
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:rolleyes: Thanks for re-posting this after I posted it the first time. Seems it\'s less magical when I post it, so somebody else has to create some sparks...*ahem* Kurt.
But yeah...that\'d be awesome if the PS3 did in fact use Blu-Ray technology. That\'d open up a whole new world of gaming...like huge friggin levels and such. Bleh...anyway...I\'M DONE RAMBLING...
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
:rolleyes: Thanks for re-posting this after I posted it the first time. Seems it\'s less magical when I post it, so somebody else has to create some sparks...*ahem* Kurt.
When and where did you post it as this has only just been announced?
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Originally posted by JP
How can you be sure it\'ll decrease since next generation obviously will have to load a lot more resources. I\'m expecting about the same load times.
I said assuming there is ample processing power. A fast system with a speedy system bus can handle more resources much better than a 300Mhz CPU. If takes the same amount of time to load the levels on the next gen GTA on PS3 I\'ll be disappointed.
It has been said they are contemplating using blu-ray, this announcement just solidifies it.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
:rolleyes: Thanks for re-posting this after I posted it the first time. Seems it\'s less magical when I post it, so somebody else has to create some sparks...*ahem* Kurt.
But yeah...that\'d be awesome if the PS3 did in fact use Blu-Ray technology. That\'d open up a whole new world of gaming...like huge friggin levels and such. Bleh...anyway...I\'M DONE RAMBLING...
Define "huge friggin levels"? Seems to me that games like The Getaway and Jak & Daxter already have pretty huge levels..
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I guess friggin huge levels with 5x as much texture detail and more 3d objects
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Originally posted by THX
I guess friggin huge levels with 5x as much texture detail and more 3d objects
Yeah...something like that :D
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Originally posted by Kurt Angle
When and where did you post it as this has only just been announced?
:eek: Yeah...I think I must have been high when I said that, cuz I can\'t find the thread anywhere :D Sorry...won\'t happen again...
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want some ice cream?
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Originally posted by Paul2
want some ice cream?
That would be lovely if I wasn\'t lactose-intolerant...:(
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What about chocolate? :D
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Originally posted by THX
I said assuming there is ample processing power. A fast system with a speedy system bus can handle more resources much better than a 300Mhz CPU. If takes the same amount of time to load the levels on the next gen GTA on PS3 I\'ll be disappointed.
It has been said they are contemplating using blu-ray, this announcement just solidifies it.
Uhm, ROM-speed has more to do with load times than processing power. How fast the DVD/BLU-RAY-ROM can offload the resources to main RAM is more important.
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Originally posted by THX
I said assuming there is ample processing power. A fast system with a speedy system bus can handle more resources much better than a 300Mhz CPU. If takes the same amount of time to load the levels on the next gen GTA on PS3 I\'ll be disappointed.
For processing to become an issue, data has to first reach RAM, meaning load times is pretty dependend on the bandwidth before processing becomes an issue.
36Mbps is not very fast once you consider that next generation is expected to have 256 MB of RAM or more.
36Mbps (1x) = 4.5 MBps.
256MB / 4.5 MBps = 56.9 seconds
On the other hand, it takes the PS2 under 10 seconds to fill its 32 MB of RAM from it\'s 4x DVD drive.
Hopefully, we can expect 4x BR-drives by the time PS3 comes out or else, I see pretty black in regards to load times.
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hmmm....just because if a console have 256 MB of main ram doesn\'t mean it have to use up all 256...
Say Blu Ray manage to runs a speed of 55 Mbits per second...
55 mbits = 6.875 Mbytes
and say blu Ray run at 1x speed for now, it would take 37 seconds...
But 256 Mbytes could be reach other ways and doesn\'t necessary have to be fill up all the way.
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Good point on the bandwidth issue, I forgot how optimized the PS2 was for fast data transfer, allowing it to be compeitive with not much ram at all.
But it\'s important to note the BR-ROMs will be running faster than 1x. On the official Blu-Ray site they are saying there will be a faster v2.0 spec, and in the future it\'s expected to be 8x or more. Just for the hell of it:
36Mbps (8x) = 36 MBps.
256MB / 36 MBps = 7.11 seconds
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I thought BD-ROM is trying to increase the speed faster than 36 Mbits per second...
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Oh I put the 2nd B in caps meaning bytes. 36 megabytes a second.
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no, what i am saying is faster than 36 Mbits per second as in at 1x speed, it runs higher than 36 Mbits per second.
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Originally posted by seven
For processing to become an issue, data has to first reach RAM, meaning load times is pretty dependend on the bandwidth before processing becomes an issue.
36Mbps is not very fast once you consider that next generation is expected to have 256 MB of RAM or more.
36Mbps (1x) = 4.5 MBps.
256MB / 4.5 MBps = 56.9 seconds
On the other hand, it takes the PS2 under 10 seconds to fill its 32 MB of RAM from it\'s 4x DVD drive.
Hopefully, we can expect 4x BR-drives by the time PS3 comes out or else, I see pretty black in regards to load times.
Thank you seven for putting it in better words than I did. :)
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10 second load times is SO irritating :rolleyes:
You people are impossible to please
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Originally posted by alliswell
10 second load times is SO irritating :rolleyes:
You people are impossible to please
10 second load times ARE so irritating ;)
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Actually I think any load times seem :ghey:
When everything exists in solid state (ie- flash type rom) I\'ll be a happy camper. :D
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Everyone ignore him, he\'s just a negative nancy...
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Originally posted by THX
eh? it says "Sony did not say." Don\'t assume just yet.
Blu-Ray in America = 2005.
Not quite buddy;
Sony did not say whether the PS3 would be able to play DVDs or will be backward-compatible with PS2 games.
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???
"Sony did not say."
Sony did not say
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The part in red is what you quoted in your first post.
I was quoting the rest of the sentence you left out.
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Point is? People were assuming the backwards compatability with PS 1 & 2 but I said don\'t assume just yet because of that sentence. Why is this confusing?
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Originally posted by THX
Good point on the bandwidth issue, I forgot how optimized the PS2 was for fast data transfer, allowing it to be compeitive with not much ram at all.
But it\'s important to note the BR-ROMs will be running faster than 1x. On the official Blu-Ray site they are saying there will be a faster v2.0 spec, and in the future it\'s expected to be 8x or more. Just for the hell of it:
36Mbps (8x) = 36 MBps.
256MB / 36 MBps = 7.11 seconds
Sorry THX, forgot this thread...
hum, the 1x speed of Blu-Ray is 36Mbps ( == not Bytes per second). 36Mbps == 4.5MBps (I did the math in my post above), so it would take ~57 seconds for the complete 256MB of RAM to be filled up. Sorry. :(
You are right though that 2x speed is the minimum we could expect for PS3. Hopefully even 4x. Time needed to fill 256MB of memory would be in that case ~28 seconds (2x) or ~14 seconds (4x).
One other thing to factor in though, is that those are the maximum speeds (36Mbps for 1x) and only possible on the outer layers of the disc (it runs the fastest), meaning that speed will vary and achieve only the maximum when it hits the outer layers. In other words, loading times should be slower again a few seconds.
The situation gets even more depressing when you think of the possibility that PS3 may have more than 256MB of RAM. That\'s quite unlikely though IMO. On the other hand, Xenon (Xbox2) is expected to have at the very least 256MB of RAM. Rumours is 512 or even more. Wonder how they\'ll solve this problem...?
Paul2:
hmmm....just because if a console have 256 MB of main ram doesn\'t mean it have to use up all 256...
Hum, yeah - not necessarely. My point though was trying to illustrate the difference between PS2 reading speeds and PS3\'s. The problems their facing is the same - and at that, PS2 was fairly quick and even then, we have games taking up to half a minute for loading.
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People are always trying to figure out ps this or xbox that and never have a clue what they are talking about. I\'ll wait til ps3 is near it\'s launch date and I can get a more accurate account of the information. Before I hang myself on anyone\'s opinion. Unless someone in here works for sony.
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yea true but that\'s the funnest part. Remember when you first joined, all the Xbox is gonna suck threads? Not really true just fun to talk about it.
Anyway I\'m lost in all the math now, I\'ll leave it to y\'all. If it takes even longer to load games on PS3 I\'ll turn my head sideways and make a frowny face like this ----> =(