PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Black Samurai on August 06, 2004, 11:04:04 PM
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For those that don\'t know him, Obama is a senator from Illinois and is considered by many to be a rising star in the Democratic party (and in US politics as a whole).
Some even speculate that he may be the first African American President or Vice President (They say that despite the fact that he is biracial).
I was just wondering what everyone else thought about him?
Here is a link to his site (http://www.obamaforillinois.com) in case you wanted more info on his stance on certain issues.
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cool. what\'s not to like?
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Funny name, is he half black half arab? Is he a blarab?
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^^^^
Black Daddy/White Mama
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Obama kicks ass. I saw his speech at the Democratic convention, and it was stunning. I hope this guy goes all the way to the White House. He has so much charisma, I think even cracker hillbilly bigots might vote for him. :)
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Obama kicks ass. I saw his speech at the Democratic convention, and it was stunning. I hope this guy goes all the way to the White House. He has so much charisma, I think even cracker hillbilly bigots might vote for him. :)
Thank you. Obama rocks. Im all for him.
And viv: His dad is African. Does that explain it for you?
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It would be cool to get a black president. This guy sounds ok :)
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There should be a blarab...
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As long as the Democratic party associates itself with blacks like Al Sharpton there will be no black president.
I don\'t see this guy going any higher than the Senate. Just being realistic.
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Yeah, well a black president sure as hell isn\'t going to come from the Republican party. :laughing: What is this nonsense about "associating themselves with..." Are you trying to say that conservative voters will say "Barack WHO??? Must be another Al Sharpton!" That\'s somewhat dismissive of America\'s reasoning ability, is it not?
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Yeah, well a black president sure as hell isn\'t going to come from the Republican party. :laughing: What is this nonsense about "associating themselves with..." Are you trying to say that conservative voters will say "Barack WHO??? Must be another Al Sharpton!" That\'s somewhat dismissive of America\'s reasoning ability, is it not?
You missed the point - the DP traditionally associates itself with the most radical black leaders and rarely mainstream ones. This guy looks relatively moderate, but once again his voice is not the loudest or most recognizable of the party. In all reality most voters will say "Barack WHO???" - his name doesn\'t help his ambitions if they are truly the presidency.
Speaking of black Republicans - Alan Keyes is deciding whether or not to run in place of Jack Ryan (aka Jerri Ryan from ST Voyager ex husband). Keyes makes some Republicans look like flaming liberals.
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I guess I\'m still missing your point. I don\'t understand what connection you\'re making between Sharpton and Obama. The Democratic party can support many different voices, opinions, and attitudes. They don\'t have just one point of view that everyone has to get in line with. What\'s wrong with hearing Sharpton, who is not running for anything, then hearing and voting for Obama who is running for a senate seat? Do you think Sharpton diminishes Obama\'s standing in some way? I don\'t think so. They are two totally different people.
Also, as far as Obama\'s name... I think the american people are tolerant of things like that. All they have to do is hear him speak, and they will remember his name forever.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
You missed the point - the DP traditionally associates itself with the most radical black leaders and rarely mainstream ones. This guy looks relatively moderate, but once again his voice is not the loudest or most recognizable of the party. In all reality most voters will say "Barack WHO???" - his name doesn\'t help his ambitions if they are truly the presidency.
Speaking of black Republicans - Alan Keyes is deciding whether or not to run in place of Jack Ryan (aka Jerri Ryan from ST Voyager ex husband). Keyes makes some Republicans look like flaming liberals.
Mmm... the democratic party wont just associate with radical blacks. Sharpton hasnt even taken any serious positions anyway. I wouldnt consider him too much more than a strong voice within the democratic circle. Maybe not even strong, just "paid attention to." Its not like hes appointed to anything significant. Unless ive been living under a rock.
Obama has gotten pretty far during his time in the spot light. There is definately a higher acceptance rate for him than many other "black politicians" (Labels are so ugly). Anyway hes getting more attention than you seem to realize. How could you forget a name like his anyway? Perhaps hes just popular or "known" around here because i live in Illinois.
As for president: I could see it, regardless of his name. I think he would have a stronger chance than most black politicians. Keyes wouldnt stand a chance (just saying). I know so many people that hate his ass. Black republican is almost like an oxymoron, eventhough there are a couple in my family (some for reasons that dont make too much sense, but hey).
it seems you have the strongest vendettas against people Giga. Once you get going, you cant shut up. 1st moore then Sharpton. Who\'s next?:p
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I\'m sorry folks but Bill Clinton was the first black president.
By the way, Giga, your point is well taken and understood here. The problem is that people like Sharpton and The Rev. Jessie suck up all the spotlight. The media and the democratic party should dismiss them for what they really are, a shakedown artist and a liar.
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Isn\'t Alan Keyes that black guy that had that show on MSNBC, I used to love watching him, he was very intuitive.
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Yeah is is a very good speaker. He was considered the best speaker in the GOP primaries in 2000.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Keyes makes some Republicans look like flaming liberals.
Damn straight. That guy is scary. If he had his way America would be a theocracy.
Originally posted by Ace
I\'m sorry folks but Bill Clinton was the first black president.
Yeah. Dude cheated on his wife, smoked weed, and plays the sax. It don\'t git no blacker. ;)
Seriously though, why do you say that?
Originally posted by Ace
The problem is that people like Sharpton and The Rev. Jessie suck up all the spotlight. The media and the democratic party should dismiss them for what they really are, a shakedown artist and a liar.
That is one of my main problems with the media. When there are SO many people that they can speak to when something happens involving african americans they immediately go to one of those two.
Its like the boy who cried wolf. Sharpton/Jackson (henceforth known as Sharkson) are 9 times out of 10 shown on camera complaining about racism. This makes them race baiters in the eyes of america at-large. So when they actually say something worth listening to they are generally dismissed.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Yeah. Dude cheated on his wife, smoked weed, and plays the sax. It don\'t git no blacker. ;)
Seriously though, why do you say that?
In a 1998 essay in the New Yorker, author Toni Morrison described Clinton as "our first black president. Blacker than any actual person who could ever be elected in our children\'s lifetime." She went on to say:Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald\'s-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas.
[/COLOR]
That is one of my main problems with the media. When there are SO many people that they can speak to when something happens involving african americans they immediately go to one of those two.
Its like the boy who cried wolf. Sharpton/Jackson (henceforth known as Sharkson) are 9 times out of 10 shown on camera complaining about racism. This makes them race baiters in the eyes of america at-large. So when they actually say something worth listening to they are generally dismissed.
Agreed and I imagine there are more black Americans who would rather not have those two speak for them. At least that\'s what I hope but we need to see more people denounce them for the snake oil salesmen that they are.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Yeah. Dude cheated on his wife, smoked weed, and plays the sax. It don\'t git no blacker. ;)
:laughing:
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gotta love him.
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Originally posted by Ace
Agreed and I imagine there are more black Americans who would rather not have those two speak for them. At least that\'s what I hope but we need to see more people denounce them for the snake oil salesmen that they are.
There are many black Americans who denounce Sharpton for his tactics. There are even a few black community leaders who have tried to complain to the media about his portrayal as a black leader but since they aren\'t Sharpton they don\'t get the airtime.
The Media loves a story and Sharpton is a story.
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Preach :D
jk
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
There are many black Americans who denounce Sharpton for his tactics. There are even a few black community leaders who have tried to complain to the media about his portrayal as a black leader but since they aren\'t Sharpton they don\'t get the airtime.
The Media loves a story and Sharpton is a story.
Hey weren\'t you the one who started the Sharpton thread and said how great his speech was? I didn\'t see you post these opinions in that thread!!!! :D
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Hey weren\'t you the one who started the Sharpton thread and said how great his speech was? I didn\'t see you post these opinions in that thread!!!! :D
Hey, I loved the speech. I thought it was great. Still, I find it hard to like the man and I do not like the fact that he is considered a spokesman for black people.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
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Hmmm it seems Keyes is running against Obama. Even I would have to vote for Obama in this case. Keyes is too tyranical for my tastes.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Hmmm it seems Keyes is running against Obama. Even I would have to vote for Obama in this case. Keyes is too tyranical for my tastes.
Im surprised.
That crazy ass Keyes. I dont think hed even have a chance in Illinois.
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first time i\'ve ever heard of him was at the dem. convention..now i can see him seriously vying for the presidency....he has alot of followers both white & black..and everybody else in between also...;)..an excellent speaker & it seems he has a bright future ahead of him...
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Thanks for the double post clips. I enjoyed reading your post twice ;) j/k
I do hope this guy goes for the presidency. That is what this country needs is a black president and I will vote for him.
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What double post?? JK I fixed it - something is making the forums really slow.
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Originally posted by Titan
Thanks for the double post clips. I enjoyed reading your post twice ;) j/k
I do hope this guy goes for the presidency. That is what this country needs is a black president and I will vote for him.
What will a black president solve that any other person can\'t? Want a hint?
LIC style:
Nothing
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What will a black president solve that any other person can\'t? Want a hint?
LIC style:
Nothing
and how do you know that ms. cleo? ;)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What will a black president solve that any other person can\'t? Want a hint?
LIC style:
Nothing
I love you. I\'m glad someone else understands I do have a style.
You know what we need? A mexican President. One of those could help the country a lot more than a white / black President...hmph...Err..Or you know what would be really nice? A good President.
;)
On a serious , non-sarcastic remark. I do hope we have a black President in my lifetime. Would just be really cool to see, in my humble opinion.
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I want to be elected as Dictator of America. My first order would be to annex Canada and send the residents off to France and Britain. Then I\'d buy Mexico and move the residents to Spain. South America...well....I\'d blow up the Panama Canal so they can\'t cross over. :)
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Here\'s a good article highlighting what a joke Alan Keyes is in this Senate race.
Lexington
"The politics of tokenism"
Aug 12th 2004
From The Economist print edition
The Republicans have made a bad mistake in pitting Alan Keyes against Barack Obama
THREE weeks ago in Boston, the Democrats witnessed the birth of a new black star in Barack Obama, their candidate for the open Senate seat in Illinois. Now the Republicans have conjured up a black star of their own to do battle with the self-described skinny guy with an odd name. Alan Keyes, talk-show host, holy-roller social conservative, Maryland resident and sometime presidential candidate, will take Mr Obama on.
The thinking behind this is beguiling in its simplicity: the Democrats have a black man who can give a rafter-raising speech, so we had better find a rafter-raising black man too. Beguiling, but stupid. Mr Keyes\'s Senate run will produce nothing but disaster—humiliation for Mr Keyes, more pie on the face of the already pie-covered Illinois Republican Party, and yet another setback for Republican efforts to woo minority voters.
Mr Keyes\'s problems start with his personality. The Republicans\' new champion is the very opposite of cool. In 1996 he chained himself to the front door of a television station in Atlanta, Georgia, to protest against a decision to exclude him from a presidential debate (he was then mounting the first of his two bids for the presidency). His speeches can certainly be eloquent. But they can also be intemperate and plain weird, particularly on the subject of gays.
Mr Keyes\'s politics are of a piece with his personality. He is a genuine intellectual, a disciple of the great Allan Bloom, and has a PhD in political science from Harvard. But his intellectualism drives him to take absolutist positions on some of the most divisive subjects in American politics. He doesn\'t just call for a reduction of taxes; he calls for the complete abolition of the “slave” income tax. He doesn\'t just want to blur the line between church and state like George Bush; he argues that the division between church and state has no basis in the constitution. He doesn\'t just disagree with Mr Obama on abortion; he castigates him for holding “the slaveholder\'s position” on the subject.
This sort of absolutism doesn\'t go down well anywhere in America outside an eccentric fringe. But it goes down particularly badly in the meat-and-potatoes mid-west, where people expect politicians to solve real problems—as the Daleys have done so spectacularly in Chicago, perhaps America\'s best-run city—rather than waffle on about the meaning of the constitution. The Republicans who have flourished in the region have been middle-of-the-road pragmatists such as Jim Edgar and James Thompson, both former governors of Illinois.
This is hardly an auspicious start. But Mr Keyes brings two further disadvantages to his late-term Senate bid. The first is the charge of “carpetbagging”. Illinois is the sort of state where politicians are expected to cultivate their constituencies for years, and where people reminisce about the Cook County political machine\'s legendary operating style in Chicago in the 1960s. The Democrats are cheerfully claiming that the Republicans are so bereft of talent in a state of 12.5m people that they have to go to Maryland to find any. And they are gleefully reminding everyone of Mr Keyes\'s pompous scolding of Hillary Clinton, on Fox News in 2000, for running for the Senate in “a state she doesn\'t even live in”.
The Keyes candidacy also smacks of tokenism. The candidate routinely denounces affirmative action as a form of racial discrimination. But what other than racial discrimination can explain the Illinois Republican Party\'s decision to shortlist two blacks for the Illinois slot—and eventually to choose Mr Keyes? He brings no powerful backers or deep pockets, and was thrashed in his two runs for the Senate in Maryland.
Desperate measures
The Illinois Republicans are not just guilty of tokenism. They are guilty of last-minute scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel tokenism. The local party has been undergoing a sort of collective mental breakdown ever since Jack Ryan\'s Senate candidacy collapsed in June over a sordid sex scandal. The party tried a laundry-list of candidates, including two former Illinois governors, two state senators, several wealthy businessmen, a former football coach and, according to Dennis Hastert, “a 70-year-old guy who was a great farm broadcaster in Illinois”, before turning at last to Mr Keyes.
To make matters even worse for the Republicans, Mr Keyes\'s numerous defects as a candidate are only magnified by the comparison with Mr Obama. Mr Obama has spent almost 20 years in Illinois—seven as a state senator—and is married to a woman from the South Side of Chicago. He won an impressive 53% of the Democratic primary vote against six strong opponents. He is optimistic where Mr Keyes preaches Sodom and Gomorrah, and moderate where Mr Keyes is intemperate. He is also a rising national star, with unrivalled support from the national party, while Mr Keyes is a serial failure.
The Republicans\' fatal mistake was to think that the best way to counter a black man was with another black man. The point about Mr Obama—as the Republicans might have realised if they had paid greater attention to his speech in Boston—is that he is a post-racial candidate. Mr Obama is the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas who was brought up by his white mother and grandparents in Hawaii and South-East Asia. He appeals just as strongly to white suburban voters as he does to blacks.
Over the past few years, the Republicans have made serious attempts to court blacks. Mr Bush gave blacks two of the most senior positions in his administration, secretary of state and national security adviser. But the Illinois Republican Party\'s decision to choose Alan Keyes is not a serious attempt at outreach. It is a ridiculous parody of it—and it will result in a crushing defeat this November.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What will a black president solve that any other person can\'t? Want a hint?
LIC style:
Nothing
I know that. I was thinking how it would be good to see a different race in there for once. If it doesn\'t matter what race is in office, why hasn\'t there been a black president yet?
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Originally posted by Titan
I know that. I was thinking how it would be good to see a different race in there for once. If it doesn\'t matter what race is in office, why hasn\'t there been a black president yet?
None of the runners have been worthy enough and just went on the fact that they were black perhaps? I cant think of the ones that tried but Sharpton should have known that he didnt have a chance. Shit, i wouldnt even vote for him.
On a serious , non-sarcastic remark. I do hope we have a black President in my lifetime. Would just be really cool to see, in my humble opinion.
Ditto. I cant imagine what kind of state the world would be in/have to be in when a Black person becomes president. That day would just be both crazy and groundbreaking. I think the klan would throw a fit. Lynching rates go up, and the nation goes crazy because one group cant help but do something to the other. I can see it now...
Jeez i hope that wouldnt happen.
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That\'s what America needs. Some new blood. New serial killers. New riots. We neeeeeeed a revolution!
Thanks.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Ditto. I cant imagine what kind of state the world would be in/have to be in when a Black person becomes president. That day would just be both crazy and groundbreaking. I think the klan would throw a fit. Lynching rates go up, and the nation goes crazy because one group cant help but do something to the other. I can see it now...
Jeez i hope that wouldnt happen.
Same here, hope this doesnt\' happen if one is elected. It probably won\'t. The Klan would throw a fit but who gives a shit about them. They aren\'t what they used to be (like what they were in the 20s).
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Originally posted by Titan
Same here, hope this doesnt\' happen if one is elected. It probably won\'t. The Klan would throw a fit but who gives a shit about them. They aren\'t what they used to be (like what they were in the 20s).
Obviously you are not up with the new Klan down here in the south. It\'s still alive and well , infact, from what I understand one of the m0derators of this forum is the White Master / Supreme Leader.
:D
j/k > punches Giga.
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^lol^
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Obviously you are not up with the new Klan down here in the south. It\'s still alive and well , infact, from what I understand one of the m0derators of this forum is the White Master / Supreme Leader.
:D
j/k > punches Giga.
Eh, whatever. I know its alive and well, but compared to what it was in the 20s, its a lot smaller and a lot different. I don\'t remember when the last lynching was. I don\'t even know if they do that anymore (like kill ruthlessly other races. I see on the history channel they still speak out). I don\'t know much about the modern klan though.
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There hasn\'t been a black president because both major parties realize there are still a large number of racists in our country.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
There hasn\'t been a black president because both major parties realize there are still a large number of racists in our country.
I dont quite know about that, but the amount of racists would definately keep a black person out of office. Not to mention any black president would most likely be a democrat. Thats 2 pretty strong forces working against them.
Who knows if it will happen in our lives.
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Not to mention a black President would be a prime candiate for an assination.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Not to mention a black President would be a prime candiate for an assination.
Thats a no-brainer.
Sadly, if it did happen, it would be an assasination by one of his own countrymen. That you cant deny.... sadly
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Not to mention a black President would be a prime candiate for an assination.
I thought the same thing about Bush. He\'s still alive and kicking.
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Originally posted by Titan
I thought the same thing about Bush. He\'s still alive and kicking.
I am not sure how this applies to my comment. You are saying that, because Bush is disliked but a lot of Americans - but that is something almost every President faces. It is nothing revolutionary.. Where as an African-American President would be a revolution for the American system. While racism may not be as rampant, it would still be a big step. You would have a person of a race that is usually givin\' the orders. Can you imagine the reaction of a lot of white American\'s? Espically those who still have very racist views? It would be an outrage and that puts the President in more harm than anything.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Not to mention a black President would be a prime candiate for an assination.
Oh man, I would not want to be on the receiving end of an assination.
:confused:
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Oh man, I would not want to be on the receiving end of an assination.
:confused:
reminds me of the dynamic duo back in 02..i\'m talkin about the interstate 95 sniper shooters (malvo)..and i officially disown them from the black race..& the human race for that matter...i said black because..well uhm typically white folk is usually known for doin\' crazy s**t like that! :D
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Not to mention a black President would be a prime candiate for an assination.
I think this would be the case for ANY non WASP.
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Not necessarily. If you have a candidate that appeals to Americans as a group rather than as individual races, I could see a non WASP President being a reality. The problem is that black political candidates tend to be pretty Afrocentric.
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As long as racism exist in america there will never be a black president. I don\'t care who he caters too. They will never let a blackman lead this country. Man I wouldn\'t wanna be in the south if that ever happen.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
As long as racism exist in america there will never be a black president. I don\'t care who he caters too. They will never let a blackman lead this country. Man I wouldn\'t wanna be in the south if that ever happen.
That is a crock. If the guy is qualified and he has the support of the majority he will one regardless of color. As far as your south comment - have you ever been here? By the way you talk I doubt it.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
That is a crock. If the guy is qualified and he has the support of the majority he will one regardless of color. As far as your south comment - have you ever been here? By the way you talk I doubt it.
Your post is crock. White folks will never let a blackman run this country. You are trying to say that there has never been a qualified african american in this country that would make a great president?
While I could come with a list of bad presidents that white ppl have put in office. That were not qualified Including the current one.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Not necessarily. If you have a candidate that appeals to Americans as a group rather than as individual races, I could see a non WASP President being a reality. The problem is that black political candidates tend to be pretty Afrocentric.
i agree with you to a point,..jesse jackson ran for pres. when was it? 88? i think..anyway any afri. amer. with any type of strong conviction leaning towards any type of rhetoric concerning race..is bound to lose..we all knew sharpton didn\'t have a chance in hell..the only person that white america seemed to like was colin powell...
i\'ll say this.. whoever the next black candidate is for pres..they must not play the race card to any degree..that turns off white people in a huge way,..maybe not so much minorities since they can relate..they have to be smart about it,..talk about issues, be firm about it..kiss that baby every know & then,..and have that great american smile...i\'m not sayin\' he should sell out..but he has to be every bit as competitive & political as his white counter part...
just like when you go for that job interview..you wouldn\'t talk to the interviewer the way you talk to your peeps right? everybody has to step out of character for a minute to achieve the desired results they want... this applies to the presidency as well...
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Your post is crock. White folks will never let a blackman run this country. You are trying to say that there has never been a qualified african american in this country that would make a great president?
While I could come with a list of bad presidents that white ppl have put in office. That were not qualified Including the current one.
Name me one black politician besides Colin Powell that would have been qualified to run this country.
Actually name me one besides Colin Powell that could run this country. The sad fact is you can\'t. Maybe this Obama guy can be one, but he hasn\'t proved himself as of yet. I agree with clips a black candidate for president would have to come across as being pretty much colorless in order to win. Not to say there is anything wrong with one\'s culture, but a candidate would have to appeal to a variety of races and cultures and as of now that has always been white males. If one had an attitude even remotely close to yours Quddus any candidate of color wouldn\'t stand a chance - so I suppose you are justified in your belief. :rolleyes:
In any case I think we will see a woman President before a black one. I just pray to my creator that it isn\'t Hillary - all of us men would be in trouble. ;)
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The minute that Hilary takes office is the minute I pack up and move to another country.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
That is a crock. If the guy is qualified and he has the support of the majority he will one regardless of color. As far as your south comment - have you ever been here? By the way you talk I doubt it.
Well of course if he has the support of the majority. That is more or less a no-brainer. Though id have to say, that even if there was a black person qualified, i dont necisarily think that that alone would secure a place in the white house for him/her.
As for the south - It sucks!
Seriously though - Its not that bad. Havent been to a huge number of places there but ive been to enough. For a while i forgot you were from alabama, though im not surprised to re-discover the fact. (not that that means much anyway).
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One way they can get a black president is both the Republicans and Democrats have a black candidate :)
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any black candidate from the republican side of things is an oreo,..an uncle tom,..a sellout,..j/k..
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Your post is crock. White folks will never let a blackman run this country. You are trying to say that there has never been a qualified african american in this country that would make a great president?
While I could come with a list of bad presidents that white ppl have put in office. That were not qualified Including the current one.
You are the most racist person on this board Quddus. I dont care what your come back is for my post because I know it will be rediculous.
"White folks will never let a blackman run this country."
Suck my cock. Do you know every white person? Your views are so centered around racism that you yourself become racist.
"While I could come with a list of bad presidents that white ppl have put in office."
So what do you think we should do? Since the white people havent proven to be successful presidents give the blacks a try?
"You are trying to say that there has never been a qualified african american in this country that would make a great president?"
If you know anything about politics, you would know that presidential canidates are always rich businessmen. And thats more true than ever today. So not only must a black canidate have a strong patriotical background, hes gotta be rich, too. How many black men out there today are out there like that, and have the guts to attempt it risking their life by radical racists in the country today? Slim number I\'d say.
If you truly believe having a black president will help the country, then whats the point of trying to forget about our differences if our skin color can determine such a thing.
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meh i see what you\'re sayin viv but cut him some slack..he does make a point and that is "that he could come up with a list of bad presidents white peeps have put in office..." tru indeed...that said it doesn\'t take much than to look no further than your own post to see the real state of the matter when it comes to race relations in the u.s...you say "how many rich black men out there are willing to risk that?"
there are alot of rich afri amer. in the u.s... the very fact that you acknowledge the point that they fear being assasinated, further reinforces qdog\'s point about it\'s never going to be a black person in the white house.
the fact of the matter is that even tho as i have said but giga stated it more clearly that an afri amer.. would virtualy have to come across as colorless, that would still not be enough for some in this country..as i feel there would still be some that would be highly upset about it..& not just those that are in the south...
just to add to the part about the assassination..maybe every afri. amer wouldn\'t think this...but trust it would always be in the back of his head....
and viv your last sentence makes perfect sense..it shouldn\'t be about color when it comes to the presidency or anything in life..but unfortunately,..that\'s not reality..the media, myself and others would make a big deal out of having our 1st black president...
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The assasination talk is baseless - there are crackpots who want to kill Bush, but they won\'t succeed - at least in the case of the homegrown nutcases. The Secret Service is very good at what they do. Black/white - it makes no difference. If you are President there will always be a group that given the chance would assasinate you for various reasons - both political and personal.
A candidate should look at Americans as just that - not white Americans, not black Americans - just Americans. Don\'t pander to racial lobbying on either side.
Also for once, I have to agree with Vivi\'s brutally honest assesment of Quddus\'s views. They are... how shall I say... non constructive?
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Id have to say that i can agree with quddus on some of his views in a more mild manor. Perhaps its the bluntness in how he expresses it but its not all just a crock. Clips summed up how i feel about the subject more or less.
As for "assasination talk" - Sure there are people who would want to kill bush but its not because of race issues at all. Perhaps some people wouldnt like the way a certain black president handled things, but his/her race would add that extra bit for a larger chance of getting assasinated. The subject isnt really that important to begin with. Im just saying that you can be extreme to a certain level about how you hate the way somebody runs a country, but some morons can be 10x\'s more extreme about hating somebody just because of the simple fact that they arent white (lets face it - whether you are black, white, hispanic or asian, we are all just used to seeing a lot of white faces in such roles, let alone anywhere else).
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
As for "assasination talk" - Sure there are people who would want to kill bush but its not because of race issues at all. Perhaps some people wouldnt like the way a certain black president handled things, but his/her race
You can\'t be totally certain that theres not someone out there that wants to kill Bush because he\'s white. People hate white people too, why is it when someone hates white people there not racist, there radical???
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Originally posted by mjps21983
You can\'t be totally certain that theres not someone out there that wants to kill Bush because he\'s white. People hate white people too, why is it when someone hates white people there not racist, there radical???
I hope you arent trying to put words into my mouth. Im not assuming, but i never said anything about blacks not being racist but radical.
That clear
Im sure there\'s somebody that wouldnt mind killing Bush because hes white, but im sure that most arent so diehard racist or hell bent on the fact that it would make assassinating him a feasible action to take. Im not trying to be racist and if you dont agree with me then thats fine, but most of the times, white people (or in this case, white racists) are more likely to go out of their way to do something extreme for a cause that seems less than reasonable (to some people). Thus one of the reasons why there really isnt any such thing as a black "klan" etc etc.
In simple terms: "I" think it would be easier to fathom seeing a white man killing a black president for racial issues than a black man killing a white president for racial issues.
From a couple of comments already made in this thread, im sure im not alone in thinking this.
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Im sure the black panthers respect other races :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ViVi
Im sure the black panthers respect other races :rolleyes:
I just thought it was worth pointing out that the Black Panthers were more about protecting black people than they were about destroying white people.
Plus, they haven\'t been relevant for almost 30 years so I don\'t even know why you brought them up.
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The black panthers are just as alive as the KKK. And you could call the KKK "protecting white people" too, but really both are racist groups that dislike others.
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Vivi, although I know what you are saying that\'s pushing it, a lot. I really don\'t think the black panthers would be around, or at least as prolific back in the day if the kkk didn\'t exist.
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Didn\'t the KKK originally come together not for racial reasons but to protect themselves from revenge seeking ex-slaves? I heard that on the History Channel.
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Originally posted by Titan
Didn\'t the KKK originally come together not for racial reasons but to protect themselves from revenge seeking ex-slaves? I heard that on the History Channel.
Perhaps thats true, but it really doesnt mean much.
Originally posted by ViVi
The black panthers are just as alive as the KKK. And you could call the KKK "protecting white people" too, but really both are racist groups that dislike others.
That has to be one of the dumbest things ive heard come out of your in this thread. The black panther party just as alive as the Klan? Are you retarded? The BPP hasnt really been as alive as the klan for around 20 years if not more. The BPP didnt go out of their way just to mess with white people. The BPP (originally) established food kitchens and things to help the black comunity. Things that in no way hindered any white american.
Ever since Huey Newton and the rest of the ring leaders were out of the picture, the BPP basically fell apart. And it was partially the actions of the FBI that lead to their demise in the first place (planting false letters, killing members etc). Even if you cant agree with that, you couldnt possibly deny the fact that the BPP was far more political than the KKK and "helped its people" in less extreme ways.
I really dont think you know what you are talking about, so if you could (please), leave the stupid comments out of this thread.
Thanks ;)
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To say that the racism in this country would not affect an election is absurd.
Reguardless of qualifications, a black man faces a much harder win then a white man due to racism.
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What do you think Im trying to argue, that the black panthers are worse than the KKK? Hell no. And what makes you think the KKK is still running strong today? And if the black panthers were mostly political, then why didnt they just merge with the NAACP?
And what other dumb things have I said in this thread, you got some grudge against me?
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Nicon, the second quote in your post is not from me. Now people think I made a dumb post :(
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
I hope you arent trying to put words into my mouth. Im not assuming, but i never said anything about blacks not being racist but radical.
That clear
Im sure there\'s somebody that wouldnt mind killing Bush because hes white, but im sure that most arent so diehard racist or hell bent on the fact that it would make assassinating him a feasible action to take. Im not trying to be racist and if you dont agree with me then thats fine, but most of the times, white people (or in this case, white racists) are more likely to go out of their way to do something extreme for a cause that seems less than reasonable (to some people). Thus one of the reasons why there really isnt any such thing as a black "klan" etc etc.
In simple terms: "I" think it would be easier to fathom seeing a white man killing a black president for racial issues than a black man killing a white president for racial issues.
From a couple of comments already made in this thread, im sure im not alone in thinking this.
nicon you are on point bro..it\'s most likely that a white person will attemp to assassinate a black person than a black person doing it to a white person..viv the black panthers wasn\'t racist..they just believed in takin up arms to protect themselves from whites that was truly wilding out back then...there\'s a remote difference between the black panthers & the kkk..the kkk as you very well know went around killing blacks & lynching them..the black panthers in a nutshell was like f**k that we\'re not gonna sit around and take s**t like that...
but unfortunately how can you basically fight the u.s. gov\'t? they had all types of law enforcement breating down their necks..and for what? back then if a black person was murdered (by obviously a lyching or such)_ the police didn\'t give a shit about it. i mean all they were doing were protecting themselves and setting up kitchens and support in the black community...
the kkk is alive and well..maybe they\'re not as outspoken as they once were (because now i think all minorities will put sometin\' on that ass!) ..but make no mistake they are still making waves quietly in the south...
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Dude, I live in the south. Texas. What do most people stereotype a Texan as? A shitkickin cowboy that has a ranch and spits tobaccy. Not once ever have I run into a KKK member, or heard of any gatherings in my entire life here. The only thing Ive ever seen was an old abandoned 50\'s town with a population of maybe 200 that had active KKK members there. But hey, maybe its because they arent here in Texas, but it seems like if KKK was alive and kicking it would be here.
To me, I think racism like that is incredibly scarce. And just about all whites for the most part would just hope that one day this whole race thing will blow over and there would be no conversations like this. And frankly it feels offensive when people like Quddus talk like white people hold him down.
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Originally posted by ViVi
To me, I think racism like that is incredibly scarce. And just about all whites for the most part would just hope that one day this whole race thing will blow over and there would be no conversations like this. And frankly it feels offensive when people like Quddus talk like white people hold him down.
i agree i don\'t feel it as intense as it was years ago. last incident was a few years ago in texas i think where that afri. amer. was dragged behind the pickup..i don\'t think that was the kkk tho..anyway racisim is not going to go away...
1--racism is something that is taught through parents bottomline
2-- by what white people perceive many blacks & other minorities as what they hear & see on tv...
now before somebody say something like c\'mon clips if you look at some of those rap video\'s it looks like some of those cats will kill you at the drop of a dime...which might be tru to some degree i mean there are some black youth that look like that & will seriously hem that ass up if you happen to just be walkin down the street...
but that is a very smalll percentage compared to the people as a whole race...i can say the same thing about marilyn manson..his songs & the way he acts is crazy as hell,..but i seen an interview with him on tv & he\'s actually a pretty smart individual totally differentfrom what you see on stage...
point is there are a few bad apples in every race..it just seems in america blacks in particular are perceived as thugs & killas yea we help to reinforce that to some degree but it\'s like that in every race whites, blacks, latino\'s, chinese etc...fact is if you see a black youth riding in a benz on dubs in a white suburbian area he\'s bound to be stopped...when people stop perceving us as some type of threat, only then can we truly begin to heal race relations
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Originally posted by ViVi
What do you think Im trying to argue, that the black panthers are worse than the KKK? Hell no. And what makes you think the KKK is still running strong today? And if the black panthers were mostly political, then why didnt they just merge with the NAACP?
And what other dumb things have I said in this thread, you got some grudge against me?
No i dont have a grudge against you. And i was just talking. True, it was the dumbest thing i heard come out of you, but that doesnt really imply that you said something stupid before (it doesnt imply that you didnt either). Like i said i was just talking. You just seemed so upset over something that wasnt really an attack directly at you and/or every single white person. I understand you being taken aback by what he said though.
And actually you would be surprised at the number of KKK members. In all honesty it doesnt really matter whether people are a part of the KKK or not because some people have the same morals and would take the same actions anyway. Not sure if this is correct but besides texas being huge, im pretty sure that its not the most KKK populated state (like you had guessed). Its not like these people walk around town in their little ghost outfits everyday. Im not making excuses to say that they are huge but they arent small time by any standards.
Anyway
As for the BPP joining the NAACP - Thats easy. They had different views on certain things, especially on how to go about things. Do you really think that the NAACP wanted to be associated with a group of young millitants that carried guns with them? Doubt it. If you still think they are whitey killing racists etc then you can look it up yourself.
Its obvious that the type of racisim that was around in the past isnt as common, but it does happen. And if a black person became president any time soon i can assure you that there would definately be some itchy trigger finger white people out there. Of course for there to be a black president, the world would probably have to be a tad bit different.
BTW Titan: I dont know what you\'re talking about :D
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For Christs sake, the KKK is dead. I am curious since you guys (clips, Nicon, Quddus) keep bringing them up - did your parents tell you stories about them or something like they were the boogie man? I mean when was the last time anyone saw some people in sheets riding through the countryside in search of black people? The hate crimes you see now have nothing to do with long deceased KKK. They are individual acts of racism.
The Klan has been dead since the height of its popularity back in the 20\'s and 30\'s. Since then it has been on a steady decline and is now a fringe group with only a handful of members. They are a non factor in anything. The Feds have cracked down on the white supremist groups that were still around in the 1980\'s (New Order, Aryan Nation, etc). The Klan is a bad memory here in the South - the key word being memory. There hasn\'t been any organized Klan activity down here for at least 2 decades. I also fail to see the reasoning behind the Black Panthers arming themselves to protect themselves from the Klan... are you all really that misinformed? The Black Panthers were/are a RACIST organization, not to mention Marxist:
Influenced by the teachings of Malcolm X and the Black Power Movement, the BPP, originally called the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, called for the restructuring of American society to achieve social, political, and economic equality, based on principles of socialism.
The party platform consisted often points ("We want..."): 1. Freedom and Self-determination
2. Full employment for all Black people
3 Restitution for slave labor and mass murder of Black people
4. Decent housing
5. Education to give Black people knowledge of self and expose the true history of American society
6. Exemption from military service for all Black men who should not be forced to defend a racist government
7. An immediate end to police brutality
8. Release from prison for all Black people because they have not received a fair and impartial trial
9. All Black people who are brought to trial to be tried by a jury of their peers from the Black community
l0. Land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. As a major political objective, a United Nations supervised plebiscite for Black Americans to determine their will as to their national destiny.
What a joke! Clips they are racist and the black equivalent of the KKK. Black Power!?!?!?! Sounds an awful lot like White Power. :rolleyes:
Clips, racism isn\'t taught soley through the parents. Racism will exist as long as their are people of different color in this world. People throughout history have always been distrustful, resentful and jealous of other races due to the sole fact that they are different.
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Sigh* I know everything you are talking about and no my parents didnt tell me that the KKK were boogie men etc. Im not saying they are all active and still doing all the old things that they have been doing. I never said that. Im just saying that the BPP doesnt exist to the extent that the KKK does. I know they arent dead because ill read about them in the news paper/white power sites etc. I dont go looking for them but i know that they arent dead.
Perhaps we just have a different definition of dead. And as for there not being any klan activity for the last 2 decades, i must say that you are either blind or that by some strange case they have moved from being central in the southern states. In about less than a decade\'s time there have been klan marches etc in suburbs around here. A whole bunch of them were granted access to march in a very jewish neighborhood about a decade ago. If this happens all the way in chicago in less than a decade then its hard for me to fathom that it doesnt happen at all down there.
And IM not trying to be racist here but to so lightly say that the BPP was as racist as the KKK is plain stupid. That is IMO. And what does being marxist have anything to do with this "debate"? Or w/e you want to call it.
"Influenced by the teachings of Malcolm X and the Black Power Movement, the BPP, originally called the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, called for the restructuring of American society to achieve social, political, and economic equality, based on principles of socialism."
Doesnt sound that bad to me. Sure they were young and delusional and im not saying that everything they did was all wonderful and god bless the BPP but that list, while not the most rational things, wasnt blatantly racist and didnt have anything like "down with the white man" written on it (not saying that it has to be blatant to be racist). A joke? We are talking about a time where black people easily felt oppressed and to a certain extent were compared to now. So it only makes more sense out of it.
And black power = white power? Uhm, i know you arent dumb by any means, trust me, but i guess its just a difference in opinion or so because the underlying meaning behind black power is more than just a hair different from white power. Maybe by the time the term got to people outside of the BPP, it was confused for meaning something else but im fairly comfortable in saying that im sure thats not the case. And this isnt just me stating what i think. Its just general knowledge between a lot of people i know (old and young).
The only thing i can fully agree with you on is the last thing you said.
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Nicon the Klan is dead. These so called marches you refer to are a mixture of Klan and neo Nazi skinheads and never amount to more than 2 dozen or so idiots walking down a street being heckled by hundreds of counter protesters.
The BPP is racist. I suppose this little manifesto isn\'t racist eh?
3 Restitution for slave labor and mass murder of Black people
4. Decent housing
5. Education to give Black people knowledge of self and expose the true history of American society
6. Exemption from military service for all Black men who should not be forced to defend a racist government
7. An immediate end to police brutality
8. Release from prison for all Black people because they have not received a fair and impartial trial
9. All Black people who are brought to trial to be tried by a jury of their peers from the Black community
Being tied in with Malcom X and the Nation of Islam isn\'t racist? The BPP and the KKK are about equal in membership and stupidity.
Substitute the word white, yellow or red in for black and reread it. You can not deny how racist that is. Release from prison for all "_______" people because they have not received a fair and impartial trial. All "_______" people who are brought to trial to be tried by a jury of their peers from the "________" community.
This is the difference between how whites view racism and blacks tend view racism. We whites objectively look at a group and logically conclude from its intended purpose and actions whether it is racist. Blacks tend look at each group by color - if its white - it is definitely racist, if its black they are heroes. Take the Al Sharpton thread as an example of this. At least that seems to be the case here in this forum. Anytime a questionable black person or group is labeled as racist - the usual suspects speak up in its defense. Of course it is impossible for any black person to be racist in this society due to the "white man" holding all the positions of power. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ViVi
The black panthers are just as alive as the KKK. And you could call the KKK "protecting white people" too, but really both are racist groups that dislike others.
The Black Panthers are still alive as a political party. They are a shell of the group that flourished in the 60\'s and 70\'s.
The KKK may have been "protecting white people" but they did it by terrorizing black people. The Black Panthers were not on the same level as the KKK. The KKK wanted white people separate from black people. The Black Panthers wanted black people on equal ground with white people.
Of course, they were labelled a militant group, for having guns to protect themselves from groups like the KKK(Who were not militant), so that is all most of America knows about them. The Panthers did more for some black communities in the 60\'s and 70\'s than any other group.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Nicon the Klan is dead. These so called marches you refer to are a mixture of Klan and neo Nazi skinheads and never amount to more than 2 dozen or so idiots walking down a street being heckled by hundreds of counter protesters.
More than that. Im sure you would know because you were here right? Prove it and ill drop it.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
The BPP is racist. I suppose this little manifesto isn\'t racist eh?
3 Restitution for slave labor and mass murder of Black people
4. Decent housing
5. Education to give Black people knowledge of self and expose the true history of American society
6. Exemption from military service for all Black men who should not be forced to defend a racist government
7. An immediate end to police brutality
8. Release from prison for all Black people because they have not received a fair and impartial trial
9. All Black people who are brought to trial to be tried by a jury of their peers from the Black community
Being tied in with Malcom X and the Nation of Islam isn\'t racist? The BPP and the KKK are about equal in membership and stupidity.
Substitute the word white, yellow or red in for black and reread it. You can not deny how racist that is. Release from prison for all "_______" people because they have not received a fair and impartial trial. All "_______" people who are brought to trial to be tried by a jury of their peers from the "________" community.
This is the difference between how whites view racism and blacks tend view racism. We whites objectively look at a group and logically conclude from its intended purpose and actions whether it is racist. Blacks tend look at each group by color - if its white - it is definitely racist, if its black they are heroes. Take the Al Sharpton thread as an example of this. At least that seems to be the case here in this forum. Anytime a questionable black person or group is labeled as racist - the usual suspects speak up in its defense. Of course it is impossible for any black person to be racist in this society due to the "white man" holding all the positions of power. :rolleyes:
If that last paragraph whithin itself isnt partially racist then i dont know what is. We whites...? And of course this is just assuming that all whites and all blacks act in these concrete fashions? What a crock. Im sorry but perhaps there is a difference, but to put it as such is just bullshit. I appreciate the sarcasm as well. Real mature ;). At this rate its a useless debate as i can see your "opinion" is unmoving.
The Black Panthers are still alive as a political party. They are a shell of the group that flourished in the 60\'s and 70\'s.
The KKK may have been "protecting white people" but they did it by terrorizing black people. The Black Panthers were not on the same level as the KKK. The KKK wanted white people separate from black people. The Black Panthers wanted black people on equal ground with white people.
Of course, they were labelled a militant group, for having guns to protect themselves from groups like the KKK(Who were not militant), so that is all most of America knows about them. The Panthers did more for some black communities in the 60\'s and 70\'s than any other group.
Thank you. Of course im sure this negates the validity of anything ive said because of my "blackness" and agreeing with something that is so preposterous right?:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
More than that. Im sure you would know because you were here right? Prove it and ill drop it.
If that last paragraph whithin itself isnt partially racist then i dont know what is. We whites...? And of course this is just assuming that all whites and all blacks act in these concrete fashions? What a crock. Im sorry but perhaps there is a difference, but to put it as such is just bullshit. I appreciate the sarcasm as well. Real mature ;). At this rate its a useless debate as i can see your "opinion" is unmoving.
Thank you. Of course im sure this negates the validity of anything ive said because of my "blackness" and agreeing with something that is so preposterous right?:rolleyes:
The Klan marches are a joke:
November 2002 - "BILOXI - The 10 to 20 white-robed Ku Klux Klan members expected to march along downtown sidewalks on Saturday are likely to be outnumbered by counterdemonstrators."
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/local/4627863.htm
These guys chickened out:
CHICAGO, March 11 — As we go to press, the KKK chickened out and ancelled their plan rally at Cicero on March 14. The following analysis explains what was behind the racist rally planned by the hooded terrorists.
http://www.plp.org/cd98/cd0318.html
These guys are lucky to be alive:
Thousands of New Yorkers jammed Foley Square in downtown Manhattan Saturday afternoon to protest the appearance of the Ku Klux Klan. For every one of the 18 Klan members, including two women, there were at least three hundred protesters, jeering at them from behind metal barriers.
http://www.tbwt.com/views/specialrpt/special%20report-1_10-23-99.asp
Do you want me to post more? As you can see they are nothing more than a rable of a dozen or so rednecks at any one event. What a terrifying group. :rolleyes:
As for my last paragraph prove me wrong. I was hoping you would. It wasn\'t a blanket statement for all blacks, it is an observation. Everything is looked at along racial lines whether right or wrong - take the OJ Simpson case - that is the best example to show how some members of the black community view things.
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You can post all you like. And I cant deny that the rallies arent major but like i said, Its a difference in opinion on what "dead" means. Despite the lack of numbers (in chicago of all places), Like i said, i cant imagine that these off shoot places are the major grounds for such actions. Perhaps this is true.
And try to find better sources :rolleyes: j/k.
I wouldnt say they all chickened out but i can see why this would happen. I never said nobody would protest it. Its obvious that many people have gotten past race barriers and would protest. I just hope you arent saying that i said this wouldnt happen. Happened more recently than i thought. While the activity isnt huge it isnt non existent. And KKK Neo Nazis, its all the same thing more or less. Im not making excuses but we are debating the racial issues of it all in which case either are the same.
http://www.jewishsf.com/bk001222/uskkkviolence.shtml
And what a terrifying group? Im sorry if what i said made it seem that way to you but again, i havent said anything of the kind. Maybe it seemed implied. I mean to individuals it can be (both kkk and neo nazis together but moreso neo nazis). I was reading in the New Yorker some months ago about some Neo Nazi violence in white neighborhoods. Anyway, I was more or less debating what vivi said about the black panther party and making it clear that they arent as influential, active as the KKK. Again if you disagree and can show me things from the "new" BPP and whatever media coverage they get then fine. It would be an interesting read.
And ive seen a billion of forums, sites etc. I dont care whether they are members or not. The fact is that there are plenty "white power" activists. Thats what im trying to point out. While not the best example, heres another:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1137483#post1137483
"It wasn\'t a blanket statement for all blacks, it is an observation. Everything is looked at along racial lines whether right or wrong "
Im glad you said that. And youre right about the second sentence, sadly. An im not denying the fact. People try to deny it but it doesnt make it any less true. As for proving you wrong, there arent too many ways i can do that (of course this could be mistaken as a way of saying i cant because its true which of course i would disagree with). I mean what could you want me to show you? If you ask me, I wouldnt say that OJ isnt guilty, if that means anything to you (considering your debate is with me).
Anytime a questionable black person or group is labeled as racist - the usual suspects speak up in its defense.
And how many times has this happened? Once? Maybe twice? The Al Sharpton thread proved very little, as you cant assume such things from 3 or 4 members on a forum (im sure youre not. or at leas i hope). It seems like black stereotypes are often seen as true in SOME white communities. Of course this is just from Observation.
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Originally posted by ViVi
To me, I think racism like that is incredibly scarce. And just about all whites for the most part would just hope that one day this whole race thing will blow over and there would be no conversations like this. And frankly it feels offensive when people like Quddus talk like white people hold him down.
I agree. IMO, Racism like that could survive because people could go their whole lives without ever meeting someone of a different race.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I suppose this little manifesto isn\'t racist eh?
3 Restitution for slave labor and mass murder of Black people
4. Decent housing
5. Education to give Black people knowledge of self and expose the true history of American society
6. Exemption from military service for all Black men who should not be forced to defend a racist government
7. An immediate end to police brutality
8. Release from prison for all Black people because they have not received a fair and impartial trial
9. All Black people who are brought to trial to be tried by a jury of their peers from the Black community
What exactly is racist about this? Some of the points may be stupid but racist? How? If you are really telling me that these were not relevant in the 1960\'s then I don\'t know what to tell you.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
This is the difference between how whites view racism and blacks tend view racism. We whites objectively look at a group and logically conclude from its intended purpose and actions whether it is racist. Blacks tend look at each group by color - if its white - it is definitely racist, if its black they are heroes. Take the Al Sharpton thread as an example of this. At least that seems to be the case here in this forum. Anytime a questionable black person or group is labeled as racist - the usual suspects speak up in its defense. Of course it is impossible for any black person to be racist in this society due to the "white man" holding all the positions of power. :rolleyes:
How can you "logically" say that the BPP is the SAME thing as the KKK? If they are the same thing, why was the KKK supported by the government while the BPP was villified? You would think that they would treat both of them the same.
Maybe I just don\'t understand racism. You know...me being black and all.
Please sir, explain it to us nonperceptive black folk.
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Heh good post Nicon. As for the "Massive" KKK rally in Valley Forge Park - that is right near Philly and I will be interested to see the how the Sunday Philly Ledger reports it. I guarantee there will be more counter protesters than Klan/Neo Nazi marchers.
Anyway, I have said what I have to say on the matter - I know nothing of the new BPP and all of my comments were based the original BPP, whether they are different now I do not know.
The links I used were hasty links I pulled off of Yahoo. I also know there was some sort of rally in Montgomery AL a few years ago that went exactly like the ones I posted. About 2 dozen showed up and about 500 protesters showed up. Some guy in the Klan got hit with a bottle and the Klan packed up and left. The point is these people are on the fringe of society regardless of where they are located. HBO had an interesting documentry on the Klan and Neo Nazi\'s in Alabama a few years ago and it ended with the leader of the this group (mostly teenagers) going to jail.
Hate groups will always be around, but the ones we have been talking about here do little to impact our society and spread their hate.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
How can you "logically" say that the BPP is the SAME thing as the KKK? If they are the same thing, why was the KKK supported by the government while the BPP was villified? You would think that they would treat both of them the same.
In the past 50 years? Nope. If you are referring to two of our former Presidents being members (before they were in office) of the Klan back in the early 1900\'s - that is something totally different. Also what government are you referring to? The Federal government or the state government? It is well known that Dixiecrats plagued the south up until the Civil Rights Act, but to say the Federal government funded them is idiotic. The Klan was founded as an organization for ex Confederate officers - it then grew into a way for southerners to ward off the effects of Reconstruction and curb the rights that the Federal government gave blacks. So in no way would the Federal government support this organization.
Also the KKK has been villified. The 1964 Civil Rights Act put an end to the Klan. If you don\'t believe that these white power organizations have been treated the same as groups like the BPP you haven\'t been watching recent news. Eric Rudolph was the most hunted man in the country for the past 8 or 9 years. The 1992 shootout at Ruby Ridge ring a bell? Those are just recent examples. The fact is, groups like The Aryan Nation had all of their leaders killed or jailed.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
In the past 50 years? Nope. If you are referring to two of our former Presidents being members (before they were in office) of the Klan back in the early 1900\'s - that is something totally different. Also what government are you referring to? The Federal government or the state government? It is well known that Dixiecrats plagued the south up until the Civil Rights Act, but to say the Federal government funded them is idiotic. The Klan was founded as an organization for ex Confederate officers - it then grew into a way for southerners to ward off the effects of Reconstruction and curb the rights that the Federal government gave blacks. So in no way would the Federal government support this organization.
Also the KKK has been villified. The 1964 Civil Rights Act put an end to the Klan. If you don\'t believe that these white power organizations have been treated the same as groups like the BPP you haven\'t been watching recent news. Eric Rudolph was the most hunted man in the country for the past 8 or 9 years. The 1992 shootout at Ruby Ridge ring a bell? Those are just recent examples. The fact is, groups like The Aryan Nation had all of their leaders killed or jailed.
I\'m talking about things like COINTELPRO. "White Hate Groups" were one of the "targets" of this FBI program. The difference being that with \'Black Hate Groups\' they infiltrated and weakened the organizations while \'white hate groups\' were given information on their black rivals and many times given funds.
I know that both groups are villified today. I am mainly referring to the late-50\'s through early-70\'s.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Heh good post Nicon. As for the "Massive" KKK rally in Valley Forge Park - that is right near Philly and I will be interested to see the how the Sunday Philly Ledger reports it. I guarantee there will be more counter protesters than Klan/Neo Nazi marchers.
Anyway, I have said what I have to say on the matter - I know nothing of the new BPP and all of my comments were based the original BPP, whether they are different now I do not know.
The links I used were hasty links I pulled off of Yahoo. I also know there was some sort of rally in Montgomery AL a few years ago that went exactly like the ones I posted. About 2 dozen showed up and about 500 protesters showed up. Some guy in the Klan got hit with a bottle and the Klan packed up and left. The point is these people are on the fringe of society regardless of where they are located. HBO had an interesting documentry on the Klan and Neo Nazi\'s in Alabama a few years ago and it ended with the leader of the this group (mostly teenagers) going to jail.
Hate groups will always be around, but the ones we have been talking about here do little to impact our society and spread their hate.
Why thank you for the compliment. You didnt do too bad yourself:p ;)
Good debate.
I too am interested in the report of the rally. If its as massive as its supposed to be then it opens new doors in this debate :D.
Just kidding.
As for what BlackSam is saying, I partially know what hes talking about While i havent done any kind of deep study or w/e on the FBI\'s involvement in "race groups" i am pretty sure of their involvement in the demise of the BPP. I cant quote anything right now but i remember reading something about them planting forged letters by Huey Newton i think. Not 100% sure.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
I\'m talking about things like COINTELPRO. "White Hate Groups" were one of the "targets" of this FBI program. The difference being that with \'Black Hate Groups\' they infiltrated and weakened the organizations while \'white hate groups\' were given information on their black rivals and many times given funds.
I know that both groups are villified today. I am mainly referring to the late-50\'s through early-70\'s.
Who knows with J. Edgar Hoover in charge of the FBI. That guy would play anyone off of everyone. In the end the FBI has done a number on all hate groups though in the post 9/11 era we live in these groups will take a back seat unless they are planning on blowing things up - ie. Timothy McVeigh.
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damn..i want to respond but everthing that i would\'ve stated have been said already..good debate gentlemen..from all sides :)
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Post a pic of a hot chick, then...
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I don\'t think it\'s a matter of racists who exsist now that would be pissed, it\'s all the people that would start to be racist during election times.
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Originally posted by buddha of budd
I don\'t think it\'s a matter of racists who exsist now that would be pissed, it\'s all the people that would start to be racist during election times.
And what made you decide to post today?
I kinda see what you\'re saying. Its true that the problem would arise first not after a black person became president, but while they were actually being competitive before the election. Who knows exactly.
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Originally posted by Ashford
Post a pic of a hot chick, then...
if you say so...;)
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Ok enough pictures. I like that one especially, but wrong forum.
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Yeah some nice reads. But saying that the black panthers and the KKK are on equal playing fields is like saying the NAAWP and NAACP are the same.
Well they maybe the same now since the NAACP has become nothing but a joke these days.
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I don\'t think anyone really said they were the same thing Qman, but that in comparison they have the same motive to bring one race into power. Thats talking about BP in the 60\'s and 70\'s compared to the Klan of old.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
I don\'t think anyone really said they were the same thing Qman, but that in comparison they have the same motive to bring one race into power. Thats talking about BP in the 60\'s and 70\'s compared to the Klan of old.
I think saying they wanted "to bring one race to power" in both cases is a little short sighted. The KKK thought Blacks were less than human so they didn\'t want them to "taint" their pure white race. They didn\'t want to bring one race to power(at the time their race was in power) as much as they wanted to keep the races apart. The BPP was more or less about putting blacks on equal ground. Its just that their proposed plans to achieve equality were more socialist than democratic.
In fact, many black leaders from the early 1900\'s to the 1970\'s were socialist. If you listen closely many of today\'s minority leaders still advocate some socialist ideas; but that is neither here nor there.
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Equal ground? If a black panther had the option to either save 1 black man or 5 white men what do you think they would choose?
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You could pose that same question for almost anyone in the 60\'s. Your average white person would choose one white person over five black people just like your average black person would choose the opposite in the reverse situation.
You can\'t just paint the BPP as this militant "Kill Whitey" organization because that is not what it was. After the Govt. destroyed its internal structure and labelled it a militant organization the BPP became the home to ex-cons and the baser segments of black america. Needless to say it was a shell of the organization that had become a vital part of many black communities.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
You could pose that same question for almost anyone in the 60\'s. Your average white person would choose one white person over five black people just like your average black person would choose the opposite in the reverse situation.
Sorry, no.
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Sorry Vivi, but Negro X is right. ;)
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HA. Negro X.
Didn\'t think that one would ever come back.
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Heheh that was pretty funny when you posted that.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Sorry, no.
You dont know what you are talking about... again.
I mean if Giga agrees then it must be true. heh
jk
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We were so naive....
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Still better than
http://youtu.be/eNv7lY-ZhKA
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Obama kicks ass. I saw his speech at the Democratic convention, and it was stunning. I hope this guy goes all the way to the White House. He has so much charisma, I think even cracker hillbilly bigots might vote for him. :)
I was wrong about the cracker hillbilly bigots voting for Obama. Fortunately it turns out he didn\'t need them to vote for him. :)
Republicans can no longer be elected by courting only the rednecks.
http://nymag.com/news/features/gop-primary-chait-2012-3/
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So he sucks pretty bad huh
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So he sucks pretty bad huh
Yeah. Kinda wish i didn't vote for him :/
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Meh....he's been ok...i haven't agreed with everything he's done thus far....He nailed Bin Laden...Stopped the war in Iraq and he shut down the chaos in Libya with very little invilvement from the U.S.
As far as the economy's concerned?..well, we haven't had an economic crisis and we've recovered since then....not making excuses, but you just can't bounce the economy back after a crisis like that...so many factors are involved, but if i had to pul back and reflect on everything, i'd say he's doing an ok job.
H really doesn't have that much control over the economy anyway, but his legacy will be obamacare....i've heard of some premiums going up as i've also heard of others going down or staying the same. One thing is that the site itself is a mess and he needs to get his tech-heads on top of that asap.
I agree with the notion that everybody needs to have healthcare tho....we are paying for all of those folks that come into the ER without insurance and everybody has stated that healthcare costs is one of the major reasons the u.s. has sooo much debt and the logic of having everybody on health care makes sense, because in the most practical of terms there are more healthier people than there is sick, so with everybody on it, there is more folks contributing to keep the costs down...it's a sound strategy more money = more money to cover sick folks and money left over for profit and surplus for all Insurance companys...BUT...
I think in order for this to be fully realized, you need an economy that was as robust as it was back in the late 80's or early 90's when everybody had a job and the economy was running on all 12 cylinders...now even college students can't find jobs and even if the gov't offers "credits" for those without jobs, that is money the gov't is spending and is kinda defeating the purpose in terms of the debt...so idk...he means well, and of course no plan or concept is going to be perfect, but there are a few flaws that i'ce seen with this...
I don't feel anybody should be upset in terms of being forced to buy health insurance tho...as i see nobody complaining about having to buy car insurance and your health is ten times more valuable than any motor vehicle...