PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: SirMystiq on August 07, 2004, 10:48:05 AM
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I don\'t care if this a current event or not. It deal with what is going on though...
Today I went to the "Village Bazaar" with a couple of friends. One white, two hispanic and one black.
We were in separate cars with my white friend driving my black friend and us 3 hispanics in my car.
So turns out the immigration people were there. And they were separating cars, they sent some to the parking lot to park and others on the side for inspection.
And you wouln\'t believe how they did this.
They let my friend(who was in front of me) go straight into the parking lot. But my friends and I? We were told to move to the right(in spanish)
I was BEYOND pissed off. I was just told to park because of my skin color and what is even more digusting is that there were nothing BUT Hispanics where I was at. It was sad.
I was pulled over to the side because of my skin color. Did I commit a crime? No. Was I a terrorist? No. Where all of those people terrorist? No.
I was told it was for security purposes only...HMMM that why all the white people got to park without any trouble huh?
I had my ID with me and so did my friends. We showed the guy and he asked us where I was from. I said Dallas. He asked me if I was illegal. I said no. He asked me if I had proof with me. I said no.
He then made us get out the car and sat us down next to a white van. He was still talking to me in spanish(he was a white cop) I was about to kill somebody at this point, so then when he tried to talk to me again I said "I speak English" in a very rude interrupting manner. He said "Well, you\'re not the only one"
So they let us go but now I have to show proof of my "legal right" to live here...While we were leaving I heard this other guy talk about how illegal this just was and he wasn\'t very happy. The truth is...from what I heard...MOST of those people were legal residents and it\'s sad that we had to go through all that just b/c our skin color.
And trust me if anything is brought up about this around here there will be shit hitting the fan.
Now to say it for the second time
Racial profiling is for hypocritical and ignorant A-holes.
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So what did you buy at the Bizaar? You get some good silver chains?
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Sucks u got pulled aside, but we have one over here called traders village, and you wouldnt believe how many illegals that are there. But come on man, they didnt do anything to you. I could understand if they put u in a cop car or something but all they did was ask you questions. And you said most, not all were legal. So they did catch some people that came here illegaly right? Before you go off on saying how they violated your rights, think about what it really means to be violated.
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I for one think the random check thing is good, if you aren\'t legal get the F8ck out.
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Fourth Amendment - "Search and Seizure"
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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Thats for private property....
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thats sucks major ass. Yeah they treat hispanics worst than african americans.
I can\'t believe they sent you guys to the side in spanish. I know spanish is you native lanuage but what if you where born in america and never learned spanish?
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Originally posted by QuDDus
what if you where born in america and never learned spanish?
Yeah, right....
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Originally posted by videoholic
Yeah, right....
:laughing: lol.....could happen;) :o
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Now to say it for the second time
Racial profiling is for hypocritical and ignorant A-holes.
If you are looking for illegal aliens from Mexico aren\'t you going to be looking for hispanic people? :rolleyes:
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Hell I live in Austin and see them everyday working at a certain home improvement place, its rather disturbing too. Because they don\'t pay taxes and that is just dirty.
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Originally posted by ViVi
Sucks u got pulled aside, but we have one over here called traders village, and you wouldnt believe how many illegals that are there. But come on man, they didnt do anything to you. I could understand if they put u in a cop car or something but all they did was ask you questions. And you said most, not all were legal. So they did catch some people that came here illegaly right? Before you go off on saying how they violated your rights, think about what it really means to be violated.
TRADER\'S VILLAGE!!!
That\'s the one. I couln\'t exactly remember the name.
What pissed me off was that my skin color was the cause for my "legal" stay to be questioned. That\'s absurd.
And Giga...
Not all illegal immigrants are from Mexico. And not all illegal immigrants are Hispanic.
Random checking?
Hey why don\'t we just get all the Hispanics and seed out the legal and the illegal ones. Then we send all the illegal ones back to where they came. But if these searches are allowed, then I\'m pretty sure a massive one should be too. But the Gov. knows they need them here. They know it.
I for one think that if you are saying that a hispanic man with a family that hasn\'t committed a crime, owns a house a car and has been paying taxes(but not being able to claim the back) for 10 years of his life. If you go ask that man how he feels about this country...You can\'t compare people like that to terrorist...The terrorist were legal for God sakes!
Timothy was legal!
This is stupid and crazy. People with that kind of mind set should really go into a dark corner and re-think their thoughts about what this country stands for and what it this country is all about.
And to add something else, they pulled over some Middle Eastern looking guys and (hilariously) a white couple...who didn\'t English, but as they explained both had parents that were of Mexican decent.
This was racial profiling at it\'s very best(worst) It\'s wrong and ignorant.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Hell I live in Austin and see them everyday working at a certain home improvement place, its rather disturbing too. Because they don\'t pay taxes and that is just dirty.
If they work for a "certain home improvement place" then that place must have asked for proof of residency and such...Which means that their taxes are withheld...but it also means that they don\'t get the tax refund.
They give up money to this government just for a chance at a better life.
But they do have that "tax payer ID" program. Which in any case still means they pay taxes.
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Why would they get a tax refund? Taxes are withheld based on what you are suppose to pay.
But hey, we should give immigrants everything they want. I mean after all they are nice enough to come into the country to take the low wage jobs most of the lazy assed americans don\'t want to do.
I mean, hell that tomato on your BLT wouldn\'t have gotten their if some family didn\'t jump across the border.
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Racial profiling is not wrong and ignorant, that\'s absurd. It\'s just another type of profiling.
One time, I got handcuffed and vigorously questioned by city police because I fit their profile description of the subject. Upon questioning and eye-witness testimony ("This isn\'t the guy, officer") I was let free to wait for the next train in 5-degree weather. Was I pissed off? A bit. I realize that certain measures must be taken to secure this country\'s future and protect its citizens.. how can I be a hypocrite by complaining?
Now we know that Trader\'s Village is a hot spot for illegal immigrants. It\'s a sad thing, but if you hang around a spot like that while fitting the description of the suspects.. you\'re bound to be eventually checked. It\'s not racist.
Perhaps there are people running the search (i.e. cop) that are racist, but the act of racial profiling isn\'t.. IMO.
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Hell I live in Austin and see them everyday working at a certain home improvement place, its rather disturbing too. Because they don\'t pay taxes and that is just dirty.
Wtf? dude, that was a stupid comment.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
If they work for a "certain home improvement place" then that place must have asked for proof of residency and such...Which means that their taxes are withheld...but it also means that they don\'t get the tax refund.
They give up money to this government just for a chance at a better life.
But they do have that "tax payer ID" program. Which in any case still means they pay taxes.
They don\'t work there, they come in there all the time, cuz they work for construction companies, think harder next time.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Wtf? dude, that was a stupid comment.
If you saw how many came in trying to steal shit, it would piss you off too. I know every race steals, but they are infamous for it at our store.
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So you can judge an entire race by what some do in your store? I think deportation and stealing could fall into racial profiling in certain situations, but would not be applicable in others.
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Just in store situations, I look at someone, and it doesn\'t take color of skin for me to tell if they look suspicious, it has nothing to do with skin color, but they tend to be higher rate of theft than others around my area. Once again I\'m just pointing that out.
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get over it. It happens everywhere and it is necessary. Like giga said, what the hell do u think theyre gunna look for at the border of MEXICO. Last i checked there are a lot of hispanics there. What do the cops really care about, nabbing the illegal immigrants or keeping hispanic americans and sending them on their way home when they see that they are a legal resident. Sorry they dont know the history of every single person.
If you ever get on a plane and see a muslim and for one second think about him hi-jacking the plane, then you are the ignorant A-hole. I do it so ill gladly say im an ignorant A-hole
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.
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Originally posted by Viper_Fujax
get over it. It happens everywhere and it is necessary. Like giga said, what the hell do u think theyre gunna look for at the border of MEXICO. Last i checked there are a lot of hispanics there. What do the cops really care about, nabbing the illegal immigrants or keeping hispanic americans and sending them on their way home when they see that they are a legal resident. Sorry they dont know the history of every single person.
If you ever get on a plane and see a muslim and for one second think about him hi-jacking the plane, then you are the ignorant A-hole. I do it so ill gladly say im an ignorant A-hole
I live in Dallas...Not the border of Mexico...Well actually if you walk the streets you might think you are in Mexico.
You have to go through it to understand. It\'s almost like if they were looking for a criminal and they spread out the good guys and the bad guys. It was stupid. They had an agent follow you all the way to where ever it is you park.
I can\'t believe that in America racial profiling is thought to be "not bad"
So OK fine...
If you see a Mexican he\'s probably illegal and doesn\'t have a licence.
If you see a black guy he\'s probably a thief, smokes weed and has a criminal record.
If you see a white guy he\'s probably...Hmm I don\'t know any BAD things associated with the white people...except maybe racist...most of the time is just nerdy stuff like "they like to read"
Racial profiling is everywhere...I know this, but when you try to use that, your own opinion, the steryotype of that race and try to accusse them of something you think they did b/c if the way you think...that goes way back in the 50\'s
Most illegal immigrants pay taxes...BUT THEY DON\'T GET REFUND. Why? B/c they either use a fake SS or somebody else\'s SS. I was watching a documentary the other day and they were talking about how much money, up in the millions, is sitting at the IRS uncalled for.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Most illegal immigrants pay taxes...BUT THEY DON\'T GET REFUND. Why? B/c they either use a fake SS or somebody else\'s SS. I was watching a documentary the other day and they were talking about how much money, up in the millions, is sitting at the IRS uncalled for.
You keep on posting this. What exactly are you trying to say?
Do you want illegals to NOT pay taxes or are you saying that they should get tax returns?
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I was sent to a psychiatrist mental hospital this may, after staying for several hours, they let me go. I don\'t have any money to ride home. The guy that worked there gave me a dollar and I manage to get home. I manage to get home mostly by walking and a small ride.
I think white people tends to be suppressiv.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
You keep on posting this. What exactly are you trying to say?
Do you want illegals to NOT pay taxes or are you saying that they should get tax returns?
It\'s not that...It\'s just that people like bitching about "them not paying taxes" and using that as an excuse.
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So do a majority of them have legal jobs with fake SS# or are most of them paid under the table?
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I think to be fair, the guy that profile you should profile your white friend too. If he make it looks like only hispanic can be illegal immigrant, why not white people? Its unfair, as if they are implying white people are truly american and hispanic is not. I think I find now why you are upset. You are upset because your white friend didn\'t get inspected but you did and the white police officer talks to you in spanish.
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^^^
Exactly!
I mean they had a police car and the Immigration agents there. Any illegal person that had committed a crime was arrested...
So I mean we got screwed both ways and if they were also looking for criminals it\'s not fair to just end somebody\'s life work just because of their skin color.
NO white people where checked. Not a SINGLE one. Except the "Hispanic" looking white folk. And yeah, they steryotyped us completely, I mean they didn\'t even ask me if I knew English, they just assumed I didn\'t...b/c they also assumed I was illegal.
Samurai...ALL of the illegal immigrants I know(and that is alot) have legal jobs with fake SS or use another SS that is not theirs. When they get paid in cash is sometimes, if not all the time(from what I\'ve seen), not enough to support a family. If you get paid cash you really have no record of your employer paying you, if he paid you enough and there is basically so many ways to get screwed over.
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What reason would he have to profile the white guy unless he was speaking in a foreign language. That makes no sense. The FACT is most if not all illegal aliens in that part of the country are hispanic.
You also think it is perfectly fine for your illegal pals to be here, work and use fake or stolen ss#\'s? Hopefully immigration pays them a visit soon. Not only are they here illegally, but they are also committing an unrelated crime!
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Originally posted by videoholic
Yeah, right....
Happens all the time. I know a million of hispanics that dont speak spanish or speak it well. Its usually puerto rican children that have the worst spanish. I dont know exactly why. A PR friend of mine was explaining this one day but that was a long time ago.
Anyway
I got into a fight with one of my ex GF\'s over this thing that was passed during the beginning of the war where illegals could fight in the war and then be given citizenship when they return. I thought it was a good deal. If you want to be a citizen then fight for the country and youve earned it. She got pissed at me and said it was unfair and it was exploitation. I said its just because shes hispanic and she had illegal family.
I mean the US doesnt have to care what poor conditions they came from in mexico or w/e so deportation is sensible. Of course i kinda feel their pain but I thought it was an ok deal.
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http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/fugitives.htm
Throwing gas on the fire 4/10 of the FBI\'s most wanted are Mexi\'s. If you live in TX be sure to keep your garage closed, unless you want to lose your power equipment to a bean eater riding a bike.
Dithcuth :ghey:
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I don\'t see why immigrants don\'t just go and get their citizenships.
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Ok, I encounter this all the time where I work, someone comes in and cannot speak English, this is very frustrating, and on my part I don\'t feel I can help the customer, and in all reallity its not my fault, so I don\'t feel bad. If you want to live here please learn English, it is best for everyone and yourself.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Ok, I encounter this all the time where I work, someone comes in and cannot speak English, this is very frustrating, and on my part I don\'t feel I can help the customer, and in all reallity its not my fault, so I don\'t feel bad. If you want to live here please learn English, it is best for everyone and yourself.
Heh, something like that happened at the store I worked at tonight. This group of spanish speaking people came in. They didn\'t speak a lick of english. Someone was on my register because I got preoccupied. He rang them up and came to Lamisil I think it was or Neosporin. There were two types. He asked the guy if he wanted both and he said "Si, si". He rang him up and when he printed out the recipt and credit card thing to sign came out, the semi-english speaking woman yelled at him for putting it on twice. We had to do this whole process. She then came back like 10 minutes later when I was on and started yelling at me for putting on 5 dollars that was added (coupons add on when they are expired) and we had to go through AGAIN the whole refund process.
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They racial profile because the hispanics have a greater chance of being illegal. How many times do you see a white person getting busted for being an illegal immigrant? For example, 60 mexicans were just busted recently for being illegal.
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Today they found a whole semi carrying 40 I think..
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I don\'t think they should be working illegaly. But I also don\'t think people should bitch about it before they know why they had to go to that extent just to WORK IN AMERICA. I would think that real proud American\'s would notice that people die and risk their lives every day just for the American dream. That some people that live here legally have lost hope for it but down south people still believe in the American dream and their not even "American"!
I think it\'s sad when people complain about illegal immigrants and treat them like crooked criminals. I don\'t think that a dad that paid some guy 3,000 dollars to ride in the back of a semi to get to this country to work for his family is a criminal.
And I don\'t know if you know this but both of my parents are illegal. We have a house 4 automobile\'s and a freaking dog. It took 13 years for my parents to get all of this things, AND THEY PAY TAXES(I believe that is what it says on their check), but we DON\'T GET THE REFUND. So you can honestly die if you think that my parents should get deported because they have worked here illegaly. But I guess I don\'t see how bad they screw legal residents over.
As for people learning English. Hey I agree with that but I\'m also realistic. The fact is that in this country, there is almost NO reason to learn English. Except to talk to people that speak only English. Everywhere you go you can find Spanish translators, menus, workers, bank people, doctors, lawyers and the list goes on. And it\'s known that learning another language (specially Spanish) can improve your working potential and your chances to get a better job.
And I\'m happy that white and black people, in fact all kinds of non-spanish people, are taking their time to learn Spanish. I get so many white people come to the store I help them out and then they start talking in Spanish to me, they seem very proud of it.
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only reason we learn spanish is because we have to in high school, and its the easiest of the group. And if your parents are illegal then, I\'m going to piss you off, they shouldn\'t be here, they didn\'t go through the process of getting there citizenship legally like so many others, so yes, they don\'t deserve to live here.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
only reason we learn spanish is because we have to in high school, and its the easiest of the group. And if your parents are illegal then, I\'m going to piss you off, they shouldn\'t be here, they didn\'t go through the process of getting there citizenship legally like so many others, so yes, they don\'t deserve to live here.
It\'s not that easy. My parents would have to give up EVERYTHING they worked for to become legal. EVERYTHING. And I don\'t see how giving up everything would help once you become legal.
They don\'t deserve to live here?
They paid taxes, invested money, bought a car, got in debt with credit cards, donated to those highway patrol people, they at least speak some English, they have worked all their lives and have never once screwed this country over, they appreciate this country for what it has given them and so on.
Tell me what does it take to "deserve to live here"?
There are 35 year old men talking to me in Spanish.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
It\'s not that easy. My parents would have to give up EVERYTHING they worked for to become legal. EVERYTHING. And I don\'t see how giving up everything would help once you become legal.
They don\'t deserve to live here?
They paid taxes, invested money, bought a car, got in debt with credit cards, donated to those highway patrol people, they at least speak some English, they have worked all their lives and have never once screwed this country over, they appreciate this country for what it has given them and so on.
Tell me what does it take to "deserve to live here"?
There are 35 year old men talking to me in Spanish.
Immigration reform is a hot topic. Some, like you want open borders, but most want closed borders to stop the influx of what they see as a further burden on American society.
Most immigrants from early in the 20th learned the language - they had to in order to find work. The ones that come here now don\'t, which ends up costing us tax payers more money to make everything bilingual. Most of those who come from Mexico have no money or skills as well and if given citizenship would get even more assitance from the government. Our government needs to take a stand and make English our national language. I personally don\'t want my son to learn Spanish - I would rather him learn German which is part of his heritage, but they don\'t even teach that in our schools anymore due to the influx of hispanics who refuse to learn English in our society.
What I don\'t like is the fact they leave their country to come here for $$$ and they send most of that $$$ back to Mexico. For the most part they are paid under the table so they don\'t pay taxes and SS AND they are entitled to health care should they get hurt. Who pays for this? The tax paying citizens of the US!
Now there is a group that wants to let illegal aliens vote!!!! WTF! It is getting to a point where being an illegal alien will have more benefits than being a citizen. The problem with the US is that we give everything away.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Tell me what does it take to "deserve to live here"?
Legal citizenship.
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For my academic honors diploma I have to take ATLEAST three years of a foreign language. Latin blows, french is hard, and Spanish is the easiest.
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Why would people complain about having to learn a different language?
Personally, I wish that kids in America learned multiple languages at younger ages. There really is no downside to being multilingual.
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I don\'t have a problem with learning other languages - there should be a choice though. They are teaching Spanish to kindergartners here. I don\'t see them teaching German, French or whatever... only Spanish.
The other problem is kids can\'t even speak their native tongue - English - properly. Now they are making Spanish almost a mandatory 2nd language?
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I have nothing wrong with them living in America. I have a problem with illegal ones costing tax payers money the way Giga said. I have no problem with immigrants bringing their culture and language into this country, after all, that\'s what our culture is based on; kind of a fuse of cultures throughout the years. What I have a problem with is they come here, don\'t get citizenships and don\'t learn the language. English is the main language. They should atleast learn to speak it. Its a latin based language, just like spanish. I\'m sure it could be picked up with a bit of time. What I don\'t understand is why illegal immigrants just don\'t file for citizenship when they get here.
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English is actually a Germanic language, though it does rely on a moderate amount of Latin. Even though it is our main language, the government won\'t make it our official language. There have been several initiatives in California throughout the years to adopt English as some sort of official language in the state I think - maybe Core can talk about this more since that is his turf?
I also don\'t have a problem with people wanting to speak their native language that they bring here, but learn the language that is used my the majority of people in this country as well.
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That\'s my point. I HAVE to learn a foreign language so I can talk to all the immigrants that come to MY country and don\'t have to learn MY native language.
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I just went through the same thing.
They are allowed to do this- suspiscioin is good enough in a hightened security level. Lots of times they wont **** around, its not because they are racist- its because the higher up people say "arabs are terrorists" "punks are stoners" "mexican illegal".
In other words you cant do a ****ing thing, sorry.
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Well I was thinking the other day... If cops dont randomly check hispanics, how do you expect them to find illegals?
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Well i dont mean to be rude or anything but when we allow hundreds of illegal immigrants into the US, it makes the country more crowded. Of course some do a good and work etc. but lets be real. Many, NOT ALL, hispanic families are really big and they end up having on average about 3 children whereas the average for most other people is 2 or perhaps 1.5.
I dont have the statistics but its a known fact that the hispanic population is growing so fast that they might one day be the majority (i forgot the estimated years but its not some huge number). I have tons of hispanic friends and even some of the closest people to me are hispanic but at the rate americans consume, we cant really afford to let in illegals regardless of their situation.
Like i said before, we have no obligation to feel for the poor conditions elsewhere. When it comes to wellbeing, the initial americans come first. I dont think we should completely ignore the fact that people are living in such conditions but overpopulation is always a problem when we consume as much as we do.
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Actually, you know what, I am sick of most things having a spanish option. Take ATM\'s for example, now\'a\'days when you enter your card there is an english option and a spansion option. There should only be an english option, if you can\'t speak the language of the country, do me a favor and get the f**k out.
Thanks.
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What is really funny is that eventually America will be mostly hispanic.
/Better brush up on your espanol. ;)
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Not in any of our lifetimes.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
What is really funny is that eventually America will be mostly hispanic.
/Better brush up on your espanol. ;)
It would not surprise me, but I refuse. I have nothing against hispanics, but I refuse to learn their language so I can accomadate them. This is a country where the language is ENGLISH. If they can\'t speak it, they better learn or go back to where the common language is spanish.
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I agree totally with LIC. Hispanics are coming into the country and not learning the language. Eventually, America will be totally spanish speaking. In my school, I had to take Spanish or French or a couple other languages (main one was french and spanish). I took French because I refuse to speak their language to accomodate them, like LIC said. If I go to Mexico or Spain, I will learn the language of them and not expect them to speak to me in English. When you are here, learn English and have your kids speak English.
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Yeah i remember there being a stand up (i dont remember what comedian), but he was talking about how the clan is going to have to expand their acceptance requirements and letting hispanics in so they dont get wiped out. Some stupid guy that wasnt really funny.
Why i felt the need to post that i have no idea.
Oh well +1
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I pray to god that never happens.
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^^^The Klan part or the hispanic part?
;)
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My 2 cents
I work at a beer and wine drivethru and every day hispanics come in and don\'t even know the number 12 in english. In fact they don\'t know a ****ing word that I say, they just know bud light and bottles.
ENGLISH
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English, motherf**ker, do you speak it???
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I think a law should be passed to require that all immigrants learn the English language and USE IT or they\'ll be shipped back in their banana boats or pick up trucks. :p
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I completely agree. They know enough to put spinners on their pieces of carp cars, but can\'t speak a lick of English.
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Yesterday, I went to a McDonalds. No one spoke english. I today went to a Burger King where I live. American teens were talking to the adults in spanish. Today also, someone paid at the register I worked at, talked to his brother or whatever in spanish and counted the money in spanish. Talking to their family in spanish I have no problem with. But in the jobplace, I would have expected English, especially how I order in English.
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sorry but it\'s not just hispanics that fall under the rule...all immigrants of every race have done this..i have gone down to the local chinese joint (chicken wings with hot sauce;) and they barely understand anything i say..but they all understand one word..and that\'s "you pay now" that goes for arabs, jews, hispanics, chinese..all of \'em..none of them learn the language,.but set up businesses and they don\'t understand anything else,..but they do understand the almighty dollar..
on another note why is it cubans can stay when they come to the u.s. but they send the haitians back? that s**t is truly f**ked up...it really is a shame as i consider cubans,.latinos, hatians, black people in general...i\'ve always wondered why the u.s. have done this,..there is no reason for it and it\'s wrong...
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Haitians aren\'t fleeing a Communist government. Cubans are.
BTW how can latinos be black people? I know there are black Cubans and they are mostly black in Haiti, but latinos aren\'t a nationality - that word refers to hispanics.
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Originally posted by clips
sorry but it\'s not just hispanics that fall under the rule...all immigrants of every race have done this..i have gone down to the local chinese joint (chicken wings with hot sauce;) and they barely understand anything i say..but they all understand one word..and that\'s "you pay now" that goes for arabs, jews, hispanics, chinese..all of \'em..none of them learn the language,.but set up businesses and they don\'t understand anything else,..but they do understand the almighty dollar..
I was just using hispanics as an example. I know this applies for all other races too.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Haitians aren\'t fleeing a Communist government. Cubans are.
BTW how can latinos be black people? I know there are black Cubans and they are mostly black in Haiti, but latinos aren\'t a nationality - that word refers to hispanics.
i just generally say that about hispanics because i have seen some as dark as me with kinky hair...i figure it\'s all relative.. just that the language became it\'s own along the way...same way i feel jamaicans,.haitians the carribbean people are all forms of the black race...it\'s just ignorance that separate them
just like how jaimaicans will say "i\'am not afri. amer..i\'am jamaican" or how cubans will say "i\'am not puerto rican..i\'m cuban" it\'s all the same,..it\'s ignorance that separates them...
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So its only ignorance that seperates me from my fellow white people in Europe? I don\'t see where you are going with this.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
So its only ignorance that seperates me from my fellow white people in Europe? I don\'t see where you are going with this.
tru to an extent..that IS where you are from anyway...irish,..brits,..euro..the same thing..all white..everybody just branched out along the way...now this is just what i believe so don\'t ask me to post any links or facts :p
i don\'t feel that jaimaicans were "just created" or that cubans were "just created" or any other race for that matter...i believe they all came from one source ultimately & have branched out from there...thus blacks= africans, latinos,cubans ,haitians etc.
whites= irish,..polish,euros ,french etc...
it\'s been said tho that you can actually get white from black..ie two black people can have a white baby...so who knows giga you just might be related to me my brother..;)
i know alot of this falls under my beliefs and religion to an extent so i\'ll just leave it at that...
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Originally posted by clips
who knows giga you just might be related to me my brother..;)
I would PAY to be at that family reunion.
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Back to SirMystiq for a sec... Unless you\'ve been under a rock for that passed few years, racial profiling has been extremely prominent. Forget the passed few years, the passed few decades. And if you check the stats, most crimes are committed by blacks and hispanics. Just a fact...
Now to catch up with everyone else...
I have to agree with the majority here. Even though Republican at this point, our country is so god damned soft towards the immigrants. Just because we\'re supposed to be welcoming the "tired and poor"--or whatever it says on The Statue--doesn\'t mean that we let them roam around our land communicating to us with their hands and/or slurred translations further hindered by, well, a bad translator who also doesn\'t know the language.
WELCOME TO AMERICA - Please have your green card and proof of your comprehension of the English Language, spoken by 95% of the nation (the other five percent coming from the illiterate immigrants), ready upon arrival.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
I would PAY to be at that family reunion.
LOL. Oh hell yeah. I would too... easy.
Ive never heard the 2 black people make a white kid theory but i know that 2 black people can make a light black kid.
but they all understand one word..and that\'s "you pay now"
Thats 3 words :p
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Well I\'ve read through all of your post and there is really nothing I can say.
Except for...ohh well. I\'m not trying to be mean or ignorant but you talk about "Learn English and GET THE **** OU!!" when in reality...it\'s not the case. You can have your wishes and hopes and dreams of one day this country being full of residents only who pay their taxes and have enough money so that they don\'t have to go into welfare.
Now go outside and look around. Does it feel that way?
Nope. I\'m with you all about people learning English but Spanish has become such a big part of this country companies, industries, job places, restaurants etc HAVE to accomodate in order to get more business and they DO get more business.
Banks have to be the same way. My parent\'s have money in Bank One and they barely know English. My dad knows enough but not enough to talk about his account. Fact is alot of illegal immigrants have bank accounts and that means more money for banks.
English ONLY will NEVER happen. I\'m sorry to bust your bubbles. If you don\'t want to learn it, well then so be it. You are only hurting yourself. And if you ever meet a Hispanic that doesn\'t at least try to use or learn English during his course in this country please tell me about it.
You talk about this issues as if you lived them first hand. You can talk about how much money you are losing and how much you hate spanish. You can talk about how it\'s "too bad" for those "poor" people that come into this country, how can you talk about those things when there is a war going on right now that is costing YOU millions of dollars in order to free OTHER POOR?
I don\'t know how you can\'t admire or at least respect those people who die and risk their lives to come into "YOUR" country. What does that say about this country? What do you think those people see this country as? Opportunity. Chance. Change. Food. Clothing. Future. Education. Freedom...etc...Isn\'t that what this country stands for?
Do you think they ever think about "Damn Ima go up to the states and steal those white people\'s money!"...Or is it more like "Damn, I\'m going to go up there and find a better job and actually be able to feed my familiy..."
I\'m damn proud that I\'m a citizen and that this country is seen as so much by people that don\'t even live here.
Those people appreciate this country more than any of us.
In my opinion that kind of mindset will only set this country back. Hispanics ARE becoming a big part of this country and that is a fact. Hispanics are influential and affect any decision made by anybody with power. Hispanics DO help this country and most of them DO pay taxes. My dad has never ONCE gotten "paid under the table" None of my relatives have ONCE got payment "under the table" Maybe when they first start off but once they need more money they need to get better jobs. Therefore they DO pay taxes. So there is no bitching about it.
This country stands for many things. And I find it sad that you people think it stands for something different.
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You say they never ONCE got paid under the table, then say maybe they did in the beginning...
Which is it?
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Is it really possible to pay taxes through someone else\'s SS#?
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Yes how is it possible they are paying taxes with no identification and social security number???
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I don\'t know how you can\'t admire or at least respect those people who die and risk their lives to come into "YOUR" country. What does that say about this country? What do you think those people see this country as? Opportunity. Chance. Change. Food. Clothing. Future. Education. Freedom...etc...Isn\'t that what this country stands for?
The very fact that your parents are illegal. Don\'t know our national language. The fact that they die coming over, doesn\'t mean a damn thing to me. Stay over there and you won\'t die trying to come over here. Problem solved, right? You know what, they die coming over here, so they can milk our ecomony and everything else. Basically they steal from every single workin\' American . Infact, this use to be a decent country before all this bullshit. I am not racist, but the fact that we have to cater to people who aren\'t even truly part of the country disgusts me. If I had my way, every single illegal one would be either deported or sent to work in factories for slave labor. Prison is to good for them, because we still end up paying for them.
English ONLY will NEVER happen. I\'m sorry to bust your bubbles. If you don\'t want to learn it, well then so be it. You are only hurting yourself. And if you ever meet a Hispanic that doesn\'t at least try to use or learn English during his course in this country please tell me about it.
I work with them every day. Sure they are good workers, but none of them know one f**kin\' word of english and that in my opinion is a friggin\' crime.
If your "kind" wants to come over here, learn English first and become registered. Until then, go back to Mexico. Because , I speak for most American\'s (black / white / registered hispanics), we are tired of supporting the illegal ones who don\'t pay one f**kin\' tax.
/End American History X rant.
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Why can\'t the Hispanics learn English like other Immigrants? The Asians learned, Italians, Germans, etc....why is it that a lot of the Hispanics don\'t?
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Because, apparently America is suppose to cater to their ever f**kin\' need. We have altered so much, just so they can come over here illegaly. It\'s bullshit.
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well i understand to a point where mystiq is comin\' from,..i\'ve always felt that hispanics & blacks have always gotten the end of the stick when it comes to equality in this country....that said i also agree that if you\'re in this country..you should learn the language which is english first...and bottom line if people are here illegally they shouldn\'t be,..cause me and everybody who works for that matter are payin\' for it..
i look at it like this,..if any american here were to move to another country, he/she would have to learn the native language there..the same applies here..of course being bi-lingual (spel) does help as it can help you get that job that requires that skill,..or in some instances it could even save a life..but i feel it should be up to the individual (by choice) if he/she wants to learn spanish in this country...
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I\'m with LIC on this one, I have no problem with immigrants, just have problems with the illegals, its just not right and quite frankly its illegal.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Why can\'t the Hispanics learn English like other Immigrants? The Asians learned, Italians, Germans, etc....why is it that a lot of the Hispanics don\'t?
Hmm...I know English. All of the kids at my school know English. All of their parents...well most of them know English...
...
...
To answer the question...it\'s because THERE IS NO NEED TO!
You said it yourself EVERYTHING is being made to fit their needs. But in my opinion this only holds them back.
LIC you really don\'t know what you are talking about.
But I guess it\'s a different angle being the observer than being the one observed.
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There may be \'no need to\', because they are being spoon-fed their only language back to them... But we can all agree that any hispanic immigrant, legal or illegal, can\'t go anywhere with only Spanish under their belt.
Well... maybe here...
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Honestly though, it doesn\'t and never has bothered me. Maybe because I can understand Spanish fluently... or maybe just having respect for another culture.
We can\'t force them to learn English, if they choose not to, it will come back to them in the long run.
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Originally posted by SwifDi
There may be \'no need to\', because they are being spoon-fed their only language back to them... But we can all agree that any hispanic immigrant, legal or illegal, can\'t go anywhere with only Spanish under their belt.
Well... maybe here...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mccullysc.com%2Fadmin%2Fasp-bin%2Fimages%2Ftacobell.gif&hash=46b1a70c5869adf2084a6f83df4f8de13830ddfc)
Honestly though, it doesn\'t and never has bothered me. Maybe because I can understand Spanish fluently... or maybe just having respect for another culture.
We can\'t force them to learn English, if they choose not to, it will come back to them in the long run.
And it does.
LIC talks about it like if the non-English speakers have a hell of a life not knowing English. But I\'m sure that the majority does at least try to use it, even if it\'s not very understandable.
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Your parents have been here how long? And they still can\'t speak good English?
You know what, when we American\'s do something illegal, we pay fines or go to jail. You all come over here illegaly and what? Nothing. It\'s complete bullshit.
If they want to live in this country and reap the benefits, the least they can do is become legal, pay taxes and learn the language spoken by almost everyone in the country.
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Maybe coz some of them are too lazy. :)
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Problem is these immigrants live in little pockets where they don\'t have to learn another language. That\'s fine though. A wise man once said, "The world needs ditch diggers too."
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Originally posted by videoholic
Problem is these immigrants live in little pockets where they don\'t have to learn another language. That\'s fine though. A wise man once said, "The world needs ditch diggers too."
heheh! You\'re cold! :D
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Your parents have been here how long? And they still can\'t speak good English?
You know what, when we American\'s do something illegal, we pay fines or go to jail. You all come over here illegaly and what? Nothing. It\'s complete bullshit.
If they want to live in this country and reap the benefits, the least they can do is become legal, pay taxes and learn the language spoken by almost everyone in the country.
And you think that NO illegal immigrants WANT to become legal?!
Everysingle illegal immigrants dream is to become a legal resident but do you know how time consuming and hard it is? Do you know how much they have to loose in order to become legal?
My parents would have to start from scratch.
And until something is done about that illegals will stay illegals.
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Mystic is right, to immigrate they have to wait a long time. I dont know about Mexicans, but especially from Asia and the Middle East. A girl in my class a few years back told the class that her family has been waiting years to come to America.
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Maybe they shouldn\'t be so impatient and wait like every other legal immigrant. IMO, they are selfish and don\'t care what the repercussions are on legal citizens and the economy. They just come here for a "better life". It also is bad for the legal immigrants because now they have to work hard and pay taxes to go and support the illegals.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
And you think that NO illegal immigrants WANT to become legal?!
Everysingle illegal immigrants dream is to become a legal resident but do you know how time consuming and hard it is? Do you know how much they have to loose in order to become legal?
My parents would have to start from scratch.
And until something is done about that illegals will stay illegals.
Give me a ****ing break. Your family is illegal - do I care how much they lose if they become legal? What? They lose the so called "right" to NOT pay taxes? Do you know how much the American people lose every year, because your family won\'t become legal? Jesus, christ.
You cry it\'s to hard to become legal, but it\'s every illegal residents dream to become legal, well guess what? If they truly wanted to become legal, they could. Instead, they can sit on their ass and drain this country to death and continue being illegal...
Just the other day on CNN it was talkin\' about how a hundred illegal people was caught in a raid past the border but how an activist group is now throwing a fit about their human rights. What the hell? They are breaking the law. What rights do they have? The only right they should have is the one to be shipped right the hell back to Mexico, along with your family.
All your family and illegals like you do is make this country a shithole for people who actually have jobs and pay taxes. Take me for example, I am working twelve hours a day for the next eleven days straight, paying taxes, just so someone like your family can come over here and not pay taxes. It\'s ****ing disgusting. It is shit like this that breeds hate in people. When someone works so hard and see\'s a lot of their check taken out for taxes and knows the mexican next to him is clearing their money straight, because they are illegal.
The best thing for the illegal mexicans is to be shipped back or put into slave labor, until they decide to become legal. Maybe if they wasn\'t allowed to rape the American people, they would get that motivation to become legal.
Thank you and goodnight.
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It\'s a proven FACT that the only reason illegals come in is to rape this great country\'s white women AND they don\'t shave their pubes.
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thanks goodness thx is :ghey:
j/k. I have no clue what i am saying.
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Thank you LIC
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Give me a ****ing break. Your family is illegal - do I care how much they lose if they become legal? What? They lose the so called "right" to NOT pay taxes? Do you know how much the American people lose every year, because your family won\'t become legal? Jesus, christ.
You cry it\'s to hard to become legal, but it\'s every illegal residents dream to become legal, well guess what? If they truly wanted to become legal, they could. Instead, they can sit on their ass and drain this country to death and continue being illegal...
Just the other day on CNN it was talkin\' about how a hundred illegal people was caught in a raid past the border but how an activist group is now throwing a fit about their human rights. What the hell? They are breaking the law. What rights do they have? The only right they should have is the one to be shipped right the hell back to Mexico, along with your family.
All your family and illegals like you do is make this country a shithole for people who actually have jobs and pay taxes. Take me for example, I am working twelve hours a day for the next eleven days straight, paying taxes, just so someone like your family can come over here and not pay taxes. It\'s ****ing disgusting. It is shit like this that breeds hate in people. When someone works so hard and see\'s a lot of their check taken out for taxes and knows the mexican next to him is clearing their money straight, because they are illegal.
The best thing for the illegal mexicans is to be shipped back or put into slave labor, until they decide to become legal. Maybe if they wasn\'t allowed to rape the American people, they would get that motivation to become legal.
Slave Labor? That may be one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen on these boards.
Of ALL the f*cking problems with America, its the immigrants who are ruining things. Give me a break. Tell me EXACTLY how illegal immigrants are making this country a "shithole".
Did you really take your bum ass 12hr/day job just so the Mexicans can live happily? Oh joy. What a saint you are. Those damn Mexicans are taking all of our damn jobs AND taxes. If they weren\'t here that money would go to worthy causes like welfare mothers, and prisons. Fucking Mexicans.
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Gohan, I think you misunderstand my "slave labor". I mean, they work for minium wage. Nothing more. I have worked it and I consider it "slave labor".
No, I didn\'t just take my job for that, but it irks me to no end that illegals come over here and don\'t pay any taxes and we, the legal American\'s are suppose to care what happens to them. I\'m sorry - I don\'t. I encourage people to come to this country, but do it legally. Take advtange of what America has to offer, but give something back. That\'s all I ask and I think most of us ask .
I am not racist. Don\'t imply I am. I think every legal America should have equal rights. I however, don\'t think illegal immigrants, from ANY country are entitled to any of America\'s benfits or "rights".
Originally posted by Bozco
Thank you LIC
Not a problem. I don\'t think we should pussy-foot about this issue. There is enough of that goin\' on in the "real world".
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Strong opinions floating around this topic. I am going to have to agree with LIC (no surprise). To think we have human rights groups putting water out in the desert to encourage illegal immigration on the premise we are violating human rights by not providing rest stops for these illegal aliens on their journey to illegally enter our country. We have too many other problems in this country right now to be the bread line for the rest of the world.
BS - you have stated that there are other problems in this country that need to be addressed, yet the money going to these illegals could be helping actual citizens! What is the money I speak of? Who do you think pays for an illegals visit to the ER? Certainly not them! Who pays for all of the bilingual literature that our government publishes for these lazy asses? We do. Even you would have to agree that this money could be better spent elsewhere.
They come over here to have children so they can gain some sort of foothold here. I am also surprised no one has brought up all the illegals who are felons wandering around this country. If we started rounding these people up - groups like the ACLU would be crying about how the government is violating their civil liberties. I am sorry, but if you aren\'t a US citizen, you have no civil liberties here - pick them up and deport them, do not pass go and do not collect $200. Instead of fleeing their country, they should stay and try and make it a better place instead of coming here and lowering our standard of living.
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Only smart people should immigrate to the US. :D Mystiq should be deported. ;)
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So true so true, giga makes perfect sense.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
No, I didn\'t just take my job for that, but it irks me to no end that illegals come over here and don\'t pay any taxes and we, the legal American\'s are suppose to care what happens to them. I\'m sorry - I don\'t. I encourage people to come to this country, but do it legally. Take advtange of what America has to offer, but give something back. That\'s all I ask and I think most of us ask .
I am not racist. Don\'t imply I am. I think every legal America should have equal rights. I however, don\'t think illegal immigrants, from ANY country are entitled to any of America\'s benfits or "rights".
I see where you are coming from I was just surprised at the percieved amount of hatred(may be too strong a word) in your post.
BTW, I wasn\'t trying to imply that you were racist. I pretty much know you are not.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
BS - you have stated that there are other problems in this country that need to be addressed, yet the money going to these illegals could be helping actual citizens! What is the money I speak of? Who do you think pays for an illegals visit to the ER? Certainly not them! Who pays for all of the bilingual literature that our government publishes for these lazy asses? We do. Even you would have to agree that this money could be better spent elsewhere.
I do agree that our tax money should not go to spending for illegal immigrants. I also believe that a lot of our taxes are misspent regardless of the portion taken by illegal immigrants.
Its kind of like complaining about someone stealing a glass of water from a reservoir that you pay to use when 85% of what you pay for is going to be shat in. It\'s just the principle! ;)
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Just the other day on CNN it was talkin\' about how a hundred illegal people was caught in a raid past the border but how an activist group is now throwing a fit about their human rights. What the hell? They are breaking the law
They aren\'t citizens, therefore, the Constitution has no bearing on them. The Constitution should only be enforced on legal citizens. If you aren\'t a cititzen, then you have no legal rights.
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You guys are bad.
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Mexican chicks are so hot though...
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I understand your point, Gohan - but you cannot argue that America wastes to much money with these illegals, when we could put that money forth in education and other vital things for legal American\'s of any race and gender.
I don\'t think hatred is to strong a word. There is a huge feeling of hate for the fact that illegals come over here and get everything for nothing (in the most basic sense).
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Originally posted by Titan
If you aren\'t a cititzen, then you have no legal rights.
What about tourists? :confused: Man, remind me never to visit your country. :(
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*Hopes australia gets nuked*
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
What about tourists? :confused: Man, remind me never to visit your country. :(
That\'s right. I\'ll drive your Aussie ass out of this country :evil:
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You\'re all a bunch of cunts.
:(
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*gives bobbo a hug*
*stabs him in the back*
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I like Australia. :D I want to go to the beaches there. I even allow Squidgrind to talk to me on AOLIM.
illegals bad mmkay
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Squidgrind?
hmmm...you are up to something fishy, arent\' you?:D
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Glad to see this thread went to hell. :D
Tourist have rights. They are here to visit. Immigrants who are here to stay and are not legal have no American rights.
It\'s that simple.
And I would hate Aussie - but Bobo lives there and Bobo rules!
;)
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Tourist have rights. They are here to visit. Immigrants who are here to stay and are not legal have no American rights.
Um, yeah. That\'s what I meant to say bobbo :p
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Damn, I guess you\'re right LIC.
Eventhough I work and pay taxes...
Eventhough my parents work and believe it or not they pay taxes...
Eventhough my uncle and his wife work and pay taxes...
But since it\'s LIC\'s money the whole world should bow to him.
Give me a break.
And Giga..."breadline" for the rest of the world? Then what the hell are we in Iraq for now if it isn\'t about caring for other people that aren\'t "American", with your logic, we shouln\'t be overthere because NONE of those people are American yet the government is spending so much money on them!
It\'s called a sense of morality and having a heart.
It\'s called a sense of respect for human life and liberty.
LIC, people like you can bitch all you want but if you can ever tell me about a time when your neighborhood ran out of drinkable water and had to drink out of rain water or the time when you had no food because your boss pays you shit and you couln\'t afford to support your family, till then, you can talk about these people being selfish.
IMO, people with that mindset have a very vague idea of what this country is all about.
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Vague, HA
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
LIC, people like you can bitch all you want but if you can ever tell me about a time when your neighborhood ran out of drinkable water and had to drink out of rain water or the time when you had no food because your boss pays you shit and you couln\'t afford to support your family, till then, you can talk about these people being selfish.
Why don\'t these people go through the legal process of becoming a citizen of the U.S.A to give them better opportunities at life? I know that it can be a costly, and time consuming process, but if I can\'t afford a house to live in, I don\'t just walk into my next door neighbors house without telling them, hide/sleep in the basement, eat their food, wear their clothes, shit in their toilet and have sex with their children. I\'ll have to live in a shithole and work in a shit hole for years to save up money to afford that house.. if you get my point. :)
Just out of curiosity, why didn\'t your parents go through the legal processes?
Oh.. and... don\'t...... don\'t call me Bobo.. :(
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Mystiq do you not understand the law? Mexicans don\'t have the right to illegally come here just because they want a better standard of living. Sorry pal, but it is not our responsibility to make sure your parents and other illegals are happy and have opportunities to succeed in life.
This is the Vincente Fox\'s master plan: Pawn off the poor on the US and have them send their money back to Mexico.
Vicente Fox, representing a new regime, for the first time publicly recognized that Mexicans are leaving out of necessity. He knows that Mexico cannot create the number of jobs his citizens need. He saw that in 2001, Mexican laborers in the United States sent back more than $8 billion, and in 2002 more than $10 billion.
This hurts our economy especially since the money heads back to Mexico and doesn\'t stay here in the US. It is policies like this that further erode our economic prosperity. I would also bet that most of that money is tax free and has been paid under the table.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Vicente Fox, representing a new regime, for the first time publicly recognized that Mexicans are leaving out of necessity. He knows that Mexico cannot create the number of jobs his citizens need. He saw that in 2001, Mexican laborers in the United States sent back more than $8 billion, and in 2002 more than $10 billion.
This hurts our economy especially since the money heads back to Mexico and doesn\'t stay here in the US. It is policies like this that further erode our economic prosperity. I would also bet that most of that money is tax free and has been paid under the table.
Stopping illegals wouldn\'t stop billions of dollars from being sent over seas. I personally know 20+ legal citizens(many of whom were born here) who send hundreds of dollars out of the country every week.
It would probably slow it down, though.
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That is fine if they are legal - I am strictly referring to illegal ones who also happen to not pay taxes.
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Yeah thats ****ed up. Mystic, who is one of the people blaming Bush for the problems in america, doesnt even think of what illegals do to our economy.
hypocritical if u ask me
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Originally posted by ViVi
Yeah thats ****ed up. Mystic, who is one of the people blaming Bush for the problems in america, doesnt even think of what illegals do to our economy.
hypocritical if u ask me
This coming from the man trying to say how wrong/bad everybody else is for their comments on illegals?
I think Mystiq has a couple of decent points but id also have to agree with so many other people on here. I wont take the time out to list all the points at this time, but i think ive said it earlier- We are not responsible for the living conditions in other places so we dont really have to care. Of course one could take into consideration why we are in iraq but you must also factor in the benefits we gain (or the fact that being there protects our well-being. Or so people say).
As for your parents Mystiq: If they didnt want to loose everything that they have then they should have applied for residency before they made such gains in america. And how they pay taxes w/o being leagal is beyond me. I know illegals and getting to know them personaly does make you see things a little differently but i still would have to agree with some of the points made by others in this thread.
I guess sometimes its easy to not care much about immigrants after seeing a group of illegals crusin around in a pimped out escalade etc. and imagining the fact that they dont pay shit, worth of taxes and have the luxury of spending that money so frivolously. Taxes take out such a chunk that i can understand how LIC feels sometimes but most of the time i wouldnt be as extreme.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
This coming from the man trying to say how wrong/bad everybody else is for their comments on illegals?
Who are u talking about?
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Originally posted by ViVi
Who are u talking about?
You guys are bad.
Mystic is right, to immigrate they have to wait a long time. I dont know about Mexicans, but especially from Asia and the Middle East. A girl in my class a few years back told the class that her family has been waiting years to come to America.
Perhaps i should have rephrased my comment. I meant to point out the fact that you had been fairly passive and not so decisive on the whole issue during the discussion and then decided to point out the hypocrisy in mystiq\'s statements. Youre probably right to a certain degree but off the top of my head, i cant remember the last time he blamed bush for all these different problems.
Perhaps i wasnt paying attention and its 5 posts back or something but im just clearing up what i was saying.
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Well, what I meant by "you guys are bad" I was talking about the downpour onto SirMystics views. And I was just supporting that its not easy to immigrate to this country legally. Its not the same as it was in the past.
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good. It dosn\'t need to be easy.
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I think it should be hard. Then there would be too much of an inflation of immigrants and our population would soar, jobs would be less plentiful and poverty would be higher, as well as starvation and stuff like that.
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Ok well dont say "why dont they just do it legally?"