PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Ace on August 27, 2004, 09:28:08 AM
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If it gets as nutty as it appears it will, will it hurt or help GWB?
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It will hurt him for the simple reason that it will take media time away from the actuall convention.
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I think it will help GWB. That is the thing about almost all of the radical leftwing people in this country (Jeanine Garofalo, Michael Moore, etc) is that they want to silence anyone who speaks up for GWB or who opposes their opinions. Kerry wanting to shut the Swift Boat group down, yet let Moveon.org say whatever they want. It is becoming all too clear who the real facists in this country are: The American left. A few months ago some pro war protesters on college campuses were attacked physically and verbally when they counter demonstrated against anti war protesters. What about Michael Moore threatening to sue anyone that criticized his movie when it came out? :rolleyes:
I read that a strategy for one of these groups that will be protesting will be to follow delegates around town and harass them. WTF? That is where freedom of speech encroaches on anothers civil liberties.
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Well, Giga I do not think all Liberals believe in censorship. And I personnally don\'t think anything should be censored because of political views.
The protestors at NYC are two groups.
The ones that believe in political change through the system itself.
And then the other groups who do not believe in the current system and want to do something extreme.
And I guess a thrid category of stupid people who might cause violence and actually not have a reason.
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You missed the key word radical
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If you REALLY think the radical left is worse than the radical right then I don\'t know what to say to you.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
If you REALLY think the radical left is worse than the radical right then I don\'t know what to say to you.
Why am I not surprised. I am talking politics - not skinheads.
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So am I.
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Obviously not. I cited my reasons - you give none. Abortion clinic bombings aside, I don\'t see any on the right censoring their opponents the way the left does. As a matter of fact the left has had an exclusive policy on violent protests in recent years. Destroying property and disrupting people\'s lives seems to be their modus operandi.
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The Religious Right has history of doing nothing BUT censoring anything that goes against their views. By any means necessary.
They have destroyed more property and disrupted more lives than any leftist group could ever hope to AND they do it all in the name of God.
IMO, Conservatives have held back progress since the beginning of time.
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I wont get into the details of what i think, but generally speaking im sure most already know what my stance is.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
I wont get into the details of what i think, but generally speaking im sure most already know what my stance is.
I need clarification.
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Originally posted by Ace
I need clarification.
Do you really? I would figure that it would be somewhat implied by now just due to my stance on a lot of things.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
If you REALLY think the radical left is worse than the radical right then I don\'t know what to say to you.
It is typical from a racist such as Giga.
:)
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The protests ended up being non violent, and hundred of thousands were there. Seems like they did well. I knew a few people there :)
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The convention hasn\'t even started yet. I can almost bet it will get worse.
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Well, today was the main day of organized protest, so anything after, I don\'t know.
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Heh... the people who were protesting in the news footage were exactly as I imagined them - people on the fringe of society... one could even go so far as to label some of them outcasts. One thing is for certain most needed to learn how to use a bar of soap. ;)
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I know I could not take a week off to protest. How do these freaks do it?
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They don\'t have jobs. They aren\'t contributing to society. The best part of all is that they don\'t realize how out of touch they are with most American voters - whether they are Republican, Democrat or Independent.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
They don\'t have jobs.
uhm..maybe that\'s why they\'re protesting? ;) seriosly tho..that\'s one of the major problems in this country,.. jobs..bush says they have created what? so many jobs over how many months? :rolleyes: and the jobs that are bein created are not real jobs. somebody bulids a mcdonalds here or a wendy\'s there...trust those are not real jobs...you and i would not take those jobs even if we were unemployed..
now on to the matter of protesters...i think it\'s cool for these people to express they\'re views,..but some of them just take it too far..i seen on the news there was this one group that stood naked on the street somewhere..:rolleyes: yo,..get a f**kin life! and to be honest..at the end of the day what have you accomplished,..other than making yourself look like a complete idiot...we all know the politicians are gonna do what they want regardless of how you protest..even if you vote them out of office most of these cats have enough money to employ you to work for them after you voted them out meh..whatever
i\'m all for protesting... just keep it cool and civil,..because trust, nobody takes you seriously when you go to extremes like that...
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Originally posted by clips
uhm..maybe that\'s why they\'re protesting? ;) seriosly tho..that\'s one of the major problems in this country,.. jobs..bush says they have created what? so many jobs over how many months? :rolleyes: and the jobs that are bein created are not real jobs.
Look at those people - would you hire them? I believe good hygeine goes far when interviewing for a job. :rolleyes: There is no reason for someone in this country who is legalized and doesn\'t have any strange personality disorders to not to be able to find work other than being lazy.
Anyway, those protestors were protesting a wide variety of things - I don\'t think jobs was the most popular reason. It was Iraq.
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This is why I\'m glad I\'m moderate right. I\'m not a left wing nutjob or a right wing wacko. I think radicals on both sides are full of crap. I was listening to a New York rock station that I usually listen to and they had this DJ on it shoveling a whole bunch of bullshit about how Bush screwed people out of jobs and he\'s the reason that our economy is failing. Last I heard, didn\'t the president really have nothing to do with the economy? It pissed me off because I never heard this station to actually have a DJ that spoke their views politically like this guy. This station always seemed quite neutral in a political sense. Never heard any pro or anti Bush DJ pushing their views.
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It is a common misbelief that Presidents dictate the performance of the economy. If that was true - blame Clinton because the economy was on a downhill slide before the elections.
In any case, it is simply not true, the economy goes through cycles, growth and recession - which has nothing to do with who is in office at the time.
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I never heard a rock station that wasn\'t liberal or a gospel station that wasn\'t conservative.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
I never heard a rock station that wasn\'t liberal or a gospel station that wasn\'t conservative.
I\'m not saying rock stations aren\'t, I\'m just saying I\'ve never heard this particular station (with the exception of Howard Stern) saying anything about either side like this moron did. I\'ve heard DJs say they support either but didnn\'t throw out BS like this guy did. He basically said "we need to get this moron out of the whitehouse. He is the reason there is poverty in the country and why there are 33 million unemployed people." What a douche.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
They don\'t have jobs. They aren\'t contributing to society. The best part of all is that they don\'t realize how out of touch they are with most American voters - whether they are Republican, Democrat or Independent.
Most people protested only on Sunday, and most people don\'t work on Sunday. The vast majority of them weren\'t gonna be there for the whole week.
And Titan, as for the radio, I guess you\'ll have to get used to it. It seems like more and more these days every radio DJ seems to have some political opinion he wants to talk about. In my area they are mostly conservative. And Black Sammy, trust me, we have one VERY conservative rock station here.
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Are you sure he didn\'t say 33 million below the poverty level? We don\'t have an unemployment rate of 12 percent - which he is claiming.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
And Titan, as for the radio, I guess you\'ll have to get used to it. It seems like more and more these days every radio DJ seems to have some political opinion he wants to talk about. In my area they are mostly conservative. And Black Sammy, trust me, we have one VERY conservative rock station here.
I\'m sure you\'re right and I\'m not doubting that. I just wish these idiots would actually do some research instead of pushing forth his liberal bullshit with nothing to back it up or even makes sense.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Are you sure he didn\'t say 33 million below the poverty level? We don\'t have an unemployment rate of 12 percent - which he is claiming.
He might have said poverty level but he said something really high for unemployment which I didn\'t by for a second. But the poverty level still has nothing to do with the president. Its not like he personally lowered those people\'s poverty level. Its the companies these people are working for that cut pay and hours, not the president.
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More harassment from the radicial left:
Posting of Delegate Data Investigated
1 hour, 9 minutes ago
By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON - The Secret Service (news - web sites) is investigating the posting on the Internet of names and personal information about thousands of delegates to the Republication National Convention in New York, officials said Monday.
The probe focuses on anonymous postings on a Web site operated by the Independent Media Center, which describes itself as "a network of collectively run media outlets for the creation of radical, accurate and passionate tellings of the truth."
The American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites), whose lawyers are representing the Web site\'s administrators, gave the Secret Service the e-mail addresses of the administrators in a letter Monday. But the ACLU pointed out that they are not responsible for postings of lists of GOP delegates because the site guarantees anonymity to anyone who wants it.
"This type of investigation is really a form of intimidation and a message to activists that they will pay a price for speaking out," said Ann Beeson, the ACLU\'s associate legal counsel. "The posting of publicly available information about people who are in the news should not trigger an investigation."
Secret Service officials would not comment beyond confirming that the investigation was continuing. But federal law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the probe is active, said there were concerns that posting of the delegate lists could subject the delegates to harassment, acts of violence or identity theft.
There are several lists of Republican National Convention delegates posted on the Indymedia site, including one listing more than 2,000 of them. Included are names, home addresses, e-mail addresses and the New York-area hotels where many are staying.
"The delegates should know not only what people think of the platform they will ratify, but that they are not welcome in New York City," said one posting, first reported Monday by The New York Times.
A federal grand jury in New York has subpoenaed a Web hosting service, Calyx Internet Access, for Indymedia contact information. Calyx President Nicholas Merrill said he refused initially to voluntarily give the information to the Secret Service, asking instead for the subpoena to protect clients\' privacy. Calyx is also being representing legally by the ACLU.
It doesn\'t surprise me that the ACLU is defending them.
:rolleyes:
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Well, it has something to do with the president, since the agenda he pushes can have to do with a lot of things that affect people in the lower income brackets in society. Welfair reforms, tax structures, trade agreements, all sorts of things like that can affect the people living in poverty.
And Titan, trust me, I could say the same thing about the right wing people here pushing out bullshit. I think we should basically just agree that if you\'re gonna go on the air and say stuff like that, you should make sure it\'s right.
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Originally posted by Titan
He might have said poverty level but he said something really high for unemployment which I didn\'t by for a second. But the poverty level still has nothing to do with the president. Its not like he personally lowered those people\'s poverty level. Its the companies these people are working for that cut pay and hours, not the president.
Of course it doesn\'t - this moron fails to realize our poverty level hasn\'t been this high since 1998! Who was in office then? Why wasn\'t he or the media in general crying about the poverty level back then?
And there are those that claim that the media has a conservative slant. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by shockwaves
Well, it has something to do with the president, since the agenda he pushes can have to do with a lot of things that affect people in the lower income brackets in society. Welfair reforms, tax structures, trade agreements, all sorts of things like that can affect the people living in poverty.
If that is the case then the economy should have nosedived once Clinton took office right? Since when does the stockmarket listen to every word the President says and reacts accordingly? Only in times of war does this happen - and when it does it is for the postive economically speaking.
The market reacts to what the Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan says - not the President. The President is not a Dictator who has absolute control over our country - Congress also has some effect on the economy, but I really feel that it is our (America\'s) frail psyche when it comes to investing that influences the economy the most. When the stock market is down - consumers lose confidence - when consumers lose confidence sales are down - when sales are down people lose jobs.
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Originally posted by shockwaves
And Titan, trust me, I could say the same thing about the right wing people here pushing out bullshit. I think we should basically just agree that if you\'re gonna go on the air and say stuff like that, you should make sure it\'s right.
Totally. I already agree radical right and left push out bullshit all the time. I\'m not radical in either side. I\'m conservative but more moderate. When I push my views, I usually try to make sure I know what I\'m posting.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
If that is the case then the economy should have nosedived once Clinton took office right? Since when does the stockmarket listen to every word the President says and reacts accordingly? Only in times of war does this happen - and when it does it is for the postive economically speaking.
The market reacts to what the Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan says - not the President.
Which is why I didn\'t say the economy or stock market are affected by the president. I just said that he can influence things such as legislation, which affect the people living in poverty. Just trying to make a point, that\'s all :)
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you\'re exactly right titan...the prez cannot control what these big companies do or how they conduct business,..cause most of the time these big companies has the prez in their pocket..regardless if they\'re a dem or republican..thing is,..is that money & power is what rules the world..and unfortunately what these big companies don\'t realize is that if they keep layin\' off people, there won\'t be anybody around to buy their product...
i did a thread about outsourcing a while back...that\'s another issue these presidential candidates needs to tackle...it\'s happened right where i work in the sense that some of our programming jobs have gone over to brazil,..were they pay those programmers 1/4 of what they pay the programmers over here..hell there\'s no need to come to america for that superior education...since the u.s. will send it\'s workflows over to you:rolleyes:
keep sending good jobs over seas...these are the types of jobs i\'m talkin about..in the computer tech field...both of these candidates have turned a blind eye to this subject and i think i have even heard both of them say (bush & kerry) that outsourcing can be good for the country..WHAT? sorry they both get a thumbs down from me on that subject...
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Originally posted by shockwaves
Which is why I didn\'t say the economy or stock market are affected by the president. I just said that he can influence things such as legislation, which affect the people living in poverty. Just trying to make a point, that\'s all :)
See my post again - I edited it a little while you were typing this message. ;)
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Truth, but the presidents agenda, does have influence over what is proposed in congress, especially when the party he represents is behind him.
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But it does not dictate the direction of the economy.
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damn..i\'ve been agreeing with giga alot lately *shudders* ;) i agree..i believe greenspan effects how the economy performs to some degree..i really don\'t follow the stock mrkt like that, but i do know that when greenspan talks everybody takes notice. and based on what he says is the difference between those cats in the stock mrkt commiting suicide, or breathing a sigh of relief...
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Of course it doesn\'t - this moron fails to realize our poverty level hasn\'t been this high since 1998! Who was in office then? Why wasn\'t he or the media in general crying about the poverty level back then?
And there are those that claim that the media has a conservative slant. :rolleyes:
Of course it is worth mentioning that in 1998 the poverty level was on the downswing while right now it is on the upswing.
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I agree with what Giga is saying too. I wasn\'t trying to say that the president affects the economy, I was trying to say that he can help push legislation that affects people in specific income brackets. Two different things.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_purple_heart_bandages&cid=694&ncid=2043
NEW YORK - A GOP delegate handed out bandages with purple hearts on them Monday night at the Republican National Convention in a swipe at Democratic nominee John Kerry (news - web sites)\'s war record, but national GOP officials have asked him to stop.
The bandages were handed out by Morton Blackwell, a longtime GOP activist from Virginia, with the message: "It was just a self-inflicted scratch, but you see I got a Purple Heart for it."
Kerry won three Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a bronze star for his service in the Vietnam War. A group calling itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been attacking Kerry as a liar through campaign ads and media interviews, but Kerry\'s wartime experiences have been backed by crewmates and official records.
"It is inexcusable for a delegate to mock anyone who has ever put on a soldier\'s uniform," said Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe. "It is inexcusable to mock service and sacrifice."
Blackwell, who gave out almost 250 of the bandages, said Vietnam veterans have every right to be angry about anti-war comments Kerry made after returning to this country.
GOP Chairman Ed Gillespie spoke to Blackwell and they agreed that he would not distribute the bandages Tuesday night," said Republican spokesman Jim Dyke. "This was not a party activity, but he was acting as an individual."
Yeah, mocking the fact that somebody risked their lives to save others is something a Republican has the right to do...
Asked "Can we win?" Bush said, "I don\'t think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the — those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."
Yup we won\'t win...we\'ll just make it less acceptable...Because before it was so acceptable...right?
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/analysis/toons/2004/08/30/mitchell/index.html
I don\'t know about you all, but it\'s more obvious that 9/11 has become the prime propaganda tool of the GOP instead of the disaster that was caused by a man in Afghanistan which is why we invaded Iraq.
Democrats have a movie. Republicans have a president that sat for 10 minutes as planes hit two buildings.
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040830/ap_on_go_pr_wh/sportsmen_s_vote
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration said Monday it will give people who hunt and fish new access to hundreds of thousands of acres of lands and streams within 17 national wildlife refuges and wetlands.
The decision as the Republican National Convention was opening in New York was announced by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
Asked if it might help President Bush (news - web sites)\'s re-election efforts, the agency\'s director, Steve Williams said, "This is just another example of the president\'s commitment to sportsmen."
"By law, Congress directed the service to consider and provide opportunities for hunting and fishing where it\'s compatible on the refuges. We take that quite seriously," Williams added.
Both Bush and Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry (news - web sites) have cast themselves as sportsmen in campaigning for votes among hunters and conservationists. Groups that promote hunting and fishing rights or habitat for fish and game — such as the Boone and Crockett Club, Ducks Unlimited and the National Rifle Association — claim millions of members.
Hunting and fishing, along with observing and photographing wildlife, have long been allowed in the 95-million-acre refuge system. That includes 544 national wildlife refuges and thousands of small wetlands and other specially managed areas.
Currently, more than 300 wildlife refuges and about 3,000 small wetlands are open to hunting, and more than 260 wildlife refuges are open to fishing.
Monday\'s decision opens another 243,500 acres as of Sept. 1, wildlife officials said.
Federal officials opened to hunting and fishing four more national wildlife refuges: Mountain Long Leaf in Alabama, 3,300 acres; Cypress Creek in Illinois, 100 acres; Red River in Louisiana, 2,700 acres, and Waccamaw in South Carolina, 10,500 acres.
Also opened were six more wetlands management districts: Devils Lake in North Dakota, 56,000 acres; and in South Dakota: Huron, 11,000 acres; Lake Andrews, 20,000 acres; Madison, 38,500 acres; Sand Lake, 45,000 acres, and Waubay, 4,400 acres.
Seven refuges where officials added to the land and marshes available for hunting are Savannah in Georgia and South Carolina, 2,000 acres; Big Oaks in Indiana, 10,000 acres; Big Branch Marsh in Louisiana, 6,000 acres; Crescent Lake in Nebraska, 5,000 acres; Cross Creek and Tennessee in Tennessee, 24,000 acres, and Trinity in Texas, 5,000 acres.
Officials said the agency was not adding money to the budget to help with managing the additional activity in the newly opened areas.
Why don\'t we just burn down all forest burn a hole in the atmosphere with something and shoot everything we can find?
Instead of slowly killing everything we feel the need to in order to feel like "sportsmen"...
How the hell is killing a creature who has done nothing to you a "sport"?
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I still don\'t understand how the Bush campaign can attack anyone\'s war record given the record of the man they\'re campaigning for.
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Hmmm the republican convention....
I am sure that there is a law in physics that states that if you put that much evil into such a small area...you can create a blackhole.
Watched the coverage this morning and it was nothing but...
9/11
9/11
9/11
Kerry switching his view
Kerry switching his view
Kerry switching his view
then more
9/11
9/11
9/11
Thrown in for "good" measure.
/me vomits
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Looks like there are quite a few rogue protesters out there creating trouble. I bet it\'s going to get worse.
Funny thing is, these people are enjoying their right to free speech but they would like nothing more to stop the convention in its tracks.
Oh well, when GWB wins they will all need therapy.
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^^^Who needs therapy when he loses?
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
^^^Who needs therapy when he loses?
If GWB loses any good conservative will look at it as a four year break and an opportunity come the next election. I don\'t think Kerry is the devil and I would imagine he would rise to occasion if another 9/11 happened. My fear is he will not do the things to stop it in the first place, IMO.
The left is truly bonkers when it comes to GWB even more so than the right was with Clinton. Don\'t get me wrong, the right hated Clinton but nothing like this. As far as I\'m concerned, if GWB wins, the lefty loonies we are watching now will get even more outrageous and we will all win. The entertainment value that will be had is worth a vote for Bush.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/31/politics/campaign/31protest.html?ei=5006&en=a9ba78aba9c3fa99&ex=1094616000&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=
August 31, 2004
CONFRONTATIONS
Protesters\' Encounters With Delegates on the Town Turn Ugly
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
utside a hotel in Times Square, delegates to the Republican National Convention were swarmed by protesters dressed in black and swearing at them. Blocks away, delegates engaged in shoving matches with protesters seeking to spoil their night at the theater. And outside "The Lion King" on 42nd Street, a delegate was punched by a protester who ran by.
Although the organized protests yesterday and Sunday have been largely peaceful, there has been a starkly different tone to smaller incidents in Midtown and elsewhere: angry encounters and planned harassment of convention delegates as they go out on the town.
Sometimes the delegates answer back in toe-to-toe, finger-pointing shouting matches. Other times the police, who are guarding delegate gatherings, have dispersed protesters, who move on to other locations to taunt other delegates.
The harassment of delegates came as organized protests continued to draw thousands of people. The Still We Rise march by advocates for social issues was peaceful, and a Poor People\'s March, a column several blocks long, proceeded from the United Nations to the Madison Square Garden yesterday after the police decided to let it go ahead without a permit.
When marchers approached the Garden, a police detective was knocked off his scooter. He was then repeatedly kicked and punched in the head by at least one male demonstrator, the police said.
The detective, William Sample, was listed in serious condition at St. Vincent\'s Manhattan Hospital, where Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly both visited him, the police said. There was no immediate word of an arrest in the assault, but as of 9 p.m., the police said there had been 11 protest-related arrests.
The heavy police presence at the Garden apparently inspired the coordinated plan by anarchists and other radicals to strike out at the delegates at their hotels, breakfasts, parties, and on the streets.
The incidents are the result of months of planning by opposition groups, who report that they have obtained copies of plans and addresses for delegates\' parties, caucuses and other gatherings outside the Garden.
Their efforts are aided by a support network that uses cellphone text messaging. Text message was also used extensively in a bike protest on Friday night and during demonstrations in Times Square on Sunday.
"CT delegation breakfast everyday @ Maison (7th ave & 53rd) from 7-8:30. Can we get some dissenters?" said one text message yesterday, apparently referring to the Connecticut delegation\'s plan to gather at a Midtown restaurant. "Maison has outdoor buffet. It would be direct contact with delegates."
One Internet discussion list used by protesters posted an advisory about where some delegate buses would be idling in Midtown every morning. Another message included phone numbers and e-mail addresses for convention officials and advised that delegate hotels would be busiest in the morning and evening.
The police are bracing for another round of unsanctioned demonstrations today, which protesters have designated a day of "nonviolent civil disobedience and direct action." Among the parties expected to be a target is the Tennessee delegation\'s gathering at Sotheby\'s. A group calling itself the Man in Black Bloc plans to protest it, saying it is angered that the convention intends to honor the late country singer Johnny Cash.
Yesterday, Jamie Moran, who lives in Brooklyn and describes himself as an anarchist and helps direct the rncnotwelcome.org Web site, was roaming Times Square with a band of protesters shouting at delegates. "These people are in a bubble," he said. "This is absolutely better than standing outside the Garden and shouting to let them know they are not welcome here."
As delegate buses arrived at the Garden yesterday afternoon, protesters who had gathered for a demonstration screamed obscenities and gestured rudely at them. When the police spotted Pete Coors, a Republican candidate for Senate from Colorado, walking near the group, they swiftly steered him away.
Clearly, the protesters were not deterred by entreaties by former Mayor Edward I. Koch that New Yorkers be nice and an offer by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg to give peaceful protesters buttons and shopping discounts.
Adam Chase, 23, who said he came from Michigan for the protests, said that while he believed demonstrators should not be violent, "I think it is quite unfair for the R.N.C. and the delegates to tell us we should not be telling them we think they are exploiting the fears of the people."
Mindful that delegates are targets, police officers guard their hotels and ride aboard their chartered buses around town, and several receive police escorts to various events.
"New York City is a fortress, and I love it," Joseph Kyrillos, the New Jersey state Republican chairman, said yesterday at a delegate breakfast. "We need to thank the New York police for all the protection."
Leonardo Alcivar, a spokesman for the convention, said officials recommended that delegates not respond to heckling and taunts, which he said have been "few and far between."
Still, he said, "Our delegates understand the old adage, do unto others as they do unto you."
The tensest encounters between delegates and protesters so far occurred Sunday evening when large groups of demonstrators moved through the theater district while delegates were attending shows under arrangements prepared by convention planners. Several protesters were arrested for trying to block hotel and theater entrances, and face-to-face standoffs abounded.
Outside "Bombay Dreams" demonstrators shouted at and videotaped people standing outside for intermission.
At "Aida," a group of protesters unfurled a banner and hurled invective at delegates leaving the show. Some looked nervous, but a few shouted back, "You\'re sick, sick."
Delegates lined up to see "Phantom of the Opera" ended up in a sing-song, tit-for-tat with protesters. One protester shouted, "The phantom dies at the end."
Flora Rohrs, a delegate from Colorado, burst into song, "This is my country," with bits of "God Bless America" thrown in. She said, "What is going on here is we are still going to get George Bush re-elected."
For some, there was no escape even at dinner.
"A person came by and used an explicative and stuck his finger in our face," said Deb Etcheson, an alternate delegate from Iowa. "But I don\'t blame that on New Yorkers. I just love this city."
Some delegates seemed perplexed, even hurt, not because they did not expect protesters to be here, but because they did not expect them to get personal. "They were using foul language, getting real ugly," said Kim Kirkwood, a delegate from Amarillo, Tex. Her husband, Jim, said he could not understand it. "I have friends who are Democrats in Texas, and we talk about things, agree to disagree."
Reporting for this article was contributed by Anthony Ramirez, Marc Santora, Mary Spicuzza and Jennifer Steinhauer.
Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Of course it is worth mentioning that in 1998 the poverty level was on the downswing while right now it is on the upswing.
1998 puts it right in the middle of Clinton\'s two terms - so to say it is result of the Presidents policies is idiotic.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t know about you all, but it\'s more obvious that 9/11 has become the prime propaganda tool of the GOP instead of the disaster that was caused by a man in Afghanistan which is why we invaded Iraq.
Democrats have a movie. Republicans have a president that sat for 10 minutes as planes hit two buildings.
Of course 9/11 is going to used in the campaign - after all it did happen when Bush was in office and he was the one who everyone looked at to handle the crisis. Dems are worried because they can\'t really say John Kerry did anything regarding 9/11 and certainly hasn\'t done anything to fight terrorism - I guess we just aren\'t sensitive enough. :rolleyes: It is not propaganda - it is fact. If it had happened under Clinton\'s watch you wouldn\'t be whining.
If you would have watched any of the convention last night especially John Mccain and Rudy Guilliani\'s speeches you would understand why we are fighting these wars.
Your 10 minute statement is also misleading. What do you expect Bush to do? Could he have prevented the second plane from hitting the other tower? Hardly. I also don\'t understand your statement regarding the movie and the 10 minutes. :stick:
Oh what was your pal Michael Moore doing at the RNC last night anyway? Probably looking for more soundbites to edit for his next propaganda film. I personally loved it when McCain slammed him and the crowd when nuts for 5 minutes chanting four more years at that fat slob.
Anyway, great speeches last night and I am sure Laura Bush and the Tutenator will be giving awesome speeches tonight as well.
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Watching the McCain speech now and I think it\'s great!
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Originally posted by ooseven
Hmmm the republican convention....
I am sure that there is a law in physics that states that if you put that much evil into such a small area...you can create a blackhole.
Watched the coverage this morning and it was nothing but...
9/11
9/11
9/11
Kerry switching his view
Kerry switching his view
Kerry switching his view
then more
9/11
9/11
9/11
Thrown in for "good" measure.
/me vomits
You obviously watched the liberal edited version.
1. The convention is being held in NY the site of 9/11
2. Bush was President during 9/11 so why wouldn\'t he use it in his platform? Terrorism and national security are priorities for both the Dems and the Repubs. Who is the Green Party\'s candidate again?
3. Kerry does not have a firm stance on anything. Look at his record - as if you knew anything about American politics anyway. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
You obviously watched the liberal edited version.
1. The convention is being held in NY the site of 9/11
2. Bush was President during 9/11 so why wouldn\'t he use it in his platform? Terrorism and national security are priorities for both the Dems and the Repubs. Who is the Green Party\'s candidate again?
3. Kerry does not have a firm stance on anything. Look at his record - as if you knew anything about American politics anyway. :rolleyes:
1) well Duhhhhh :rolleyes:
2) Yeah and after watching 5 minutes of Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani speech I lost count of the number of time he said 9/11 or mentioned it.
I also watched it on the BBC Parliament channel which gave the FULL speech unbroken(with NO adverts because it was on the BBC) Also there was no commentary from the BBC …just the whole speech in full speech.
3) Ah atlest it better then laying to get your Way.....Ah still no WMD found...also haven\'t you guys found Bin Landen yet ? ;) :rolleyes:
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ooseven, WMD was Saddam Hussien. Just like Hitler was for Germany. Remember, the US saved yer tea sipping asses. Otherwise, you\'d be a goose stepping fat Nazi by now.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
ooseven, WMD was Saddam Hussien. Just like Hitler was for Germany. Remember, the US saved yer tea sipping asses. Otherwise, you\'d be a goose stepping fat Nazi by now.
geez just because that may be true about hitler and ww2..that doesn\'t justify the u.s. invadin iraq...and no saddam wasn\'t the wmd...just because we are the u.s. does not always make us right in every decision we make...
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Originally posted by ooseven
2) Yeah and after watching 5 minutes of Former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani speech I lost count of the number of time he said 9/11 or mentioned it.
Considering the convention is in NY and considering Guilliani was the mayor and considering how many lives were lost - he has every right to say 9/11 as many times as he wants. So soon our supposed friends forget about our tragedy.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by clips
geez just because that may be true about hitler and ww2..that doesn\'t justify the u.s. invadin iraq...and no saddam wasn\'t the wmd...just because we are the u.s. does not always make us right in every decision we make...
We were right about Iraq. Without going into a lot of detail, John McCain said it best in that if we would have done nothing and kept the status quo - Saddam would have rearmed himself and it would have been a much larger problem later on - see North Korea if you have any doubts.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Considering the convention is in NY and considering Guilliani was the mayor and considering how many lives were lost - he has every right to say 9/11 as many times as he wants. So soon our supposed friends forget about our tragedy.
:rolleyes:
It is the left that makes the mere mention of 9/11 a political football and it makes me sick. So many people died that die and not to mention it does them a disservice.
It\'s part of their plan to make us forget that day and that would be the biggest mistake this country can ever make.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
ooseven, WMD was Saddam Hussien.
Nice save. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
We were right about Iraq. Without going into a lot of detail, John McCain said it best in that if we would have done nothing and kept the status quo - Saddam would have rearmed himself and it would have been a much larger problem later on - see North Korea if you have any doubts.
sorry don\'t agree with you here..the u.s. and britain were keeping close tabs on saddam with the sanctions..there\'s no way he would\'ve rearmed himself..the sanctions were in place what? over 10 yrs or so? and i believe you didn\'t see him rearm himself in that time period...as you can clearly see currently by the u.s. not finding any wmd\'s to date...
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Originally posted by Ace
It is the left that makes the mere mention of 9/11 a political football and it makes me sick. So many people died that die and not to mention it does them a disservice.
That is a load of shit. The left makes the mention of 9/11 a political football?! You can\'t really believe that.
Originally posted by Ace
It\'s part of their plan to make us forget that day and that would be the biggest mistake this country can ever make.
No one wants us to forget 9/11 but why does the right want us to dwell on it? The biggest mistake our country can ever make is forgetting 9/11? Interesting. What about ignoring the person/people responsible and attacking a random dictator? Would that be counted as forgetting?
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Originally posted by clips
sorry don\'t agree with you here..the u.s. and britain were keeping close tabs on saddam with the sanctions..there\'s no way he would\'ve rearmed himself..the sanctions were in place what? over 10 yrs or so? and i believe you didn\'t see him rearm himself in that time period...as you can clearly see currently by the u.s. not finding any wmd\'s to date...
Containment doesn\'t work - history proves it doesn\'t. Saddamn was a not only a menace to the region, but the world. As for keeping close tabs - you have to be kidding - he wouldn\'t allow our inspectors free access to anything.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
That is a load of shit. The left makes the mention of 9/11 a political football?! You can\'t really believe that.
No one wants us to forget 9/11 but why does the right want us to dwell on it? The biggest mistake our country can ever make is forgetting 9/11? Interesting. What about ignoring the person/people responsible and attacking a random dictator? Would that be counted as forgetting?
Ignoring the person responsible? If you think Bin Laden did this work on his own you are naive. Terrorism is a group effort and has shown that even if you "chop off the head" it will still exist. By eliminating Saddam we eliminated someone who sponsored terrorism. Nothing like handing out money to the families of suicide bombers :rolleyes:
We should dwell on 9/11 as it only happened 3 years ago. By constantly remembering 9/11 we prepare ourselves for future attacks or ideally prevent them.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Ignoring the person responsible? If you think Bin Laden did this work on his own you are naive. Terrorism is a group effort and has shown that even if you "chop off the head" it will still exist. By eliminating Saddam we eliminated someone who sponsored terrorism. Nothing like handing out money to the families of suicide bombers :rolleyes:
Yes of course. Bin Laden bought the plane tickets and everything. Don\'t you watch the news? :rolleyes:
Since terrorists use cells to function meaning they are never without leadership HOW exactly do you fight them? Do you just keep "chopping off the head" despite its fruitless nature? You can not have a war against a tactic.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
We should dwell on 9/11 as it only happened 3 years ago. By constantly remembering 9/11 we prepare ourselves for future attacks or ideally prevent them.
We should not be dwelling on the attack 3 years later. We should understand that it happened and take the necessary precautions to prevent it from happening again. Dwelling on something NEVER has a positive. By definition, dwelling means we are just stalling.
I can\'t wait until "9/11" isn\'t the answer to every f*cking question about terrorism.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
We should not be dwelling on the attack 3 years later. We should understand that it happened and take the necessary precautions to prevent it from happening again. Dwelling on something NEVER has a positive. By definition, dwelling means we are just stalling.
I can\'t wait until "9/11" isn\'t the answer to every f*cking question about terrorism.
i agree with you here..we should not be dwelling on 911 to the extent that the republicans are doing..yea it was a tragic event and alot of people died..but i gotta be honest after a while people really started takin it too far, i don\'t want to sound cold,..it was really bad.,..but the victims just did not want to let it go..it was getting to the point to were i was getting sick of it...
911 was a wakeup call about our security and about our foregin policy issues in the world today..people fail to understand that there are other countries that deal with 911\'s on a daily basis,..this is why i know that america cannot survive another 911,..when the war finally does hit these shores..you can forget about it...people here will just probably faint or just give up altogether...
i don\'t mean to be harsh but that\'s the reality of it...yes i understand that some countries just don\'t like the u.s, for no reason at all,..but there\'s a reason why we\'re so hated in the world..the way we treat other countries outside of our borders is something i\'m sure most americans don\'t even hear about..
i asked giga awhile back why does he think we\'re hated..and he basically stated that they\'re(the terrorists) are jealous of our values and freedom..but i think it runs deeper than just that...
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Democrats have a movie. Republicans have a president that sat for 10 minutes as planes hit two buildings.
Yes, because we all know what Moore said in F9/11 was the absolute truth :rolleyes:
Why don\'t we just burn down all forest burn a hole in the atmosphere with something and shoot everything we can find?
Yes, because rifles and fishing poles can really burn down a national forest. I fully support hunting. Its good for the animals. Why? Without hunters lowering populations, the deer (example) will populate and reproduce at a higher rate, food supplies will go down and disease will run wild. This has happened and will happen. The deer will starve to death and suffer a more horrible death than a quick bullet. It seems people would rather that happen that a quick painless death to help lower the population so they don\'t suffer.
Instead of slowly killing everything we feel the need to in order to feel like "sportsmen"...
Read above post.
How the hell is killing a creature who has done nothing to you a "sport"?
Its called the food chain. Besides, not everyone goes around and kills things like you think they do. Most people actually eat the animal they kill. I plan on hunting as soon as I can get my hands on a rifle. Also, read my first reply. It does the animal population good.
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Food Chain, eh...
Hopefully the Dolphins don\'t grow Legs and aposible thumbs. Or else we\'re all screwed.
See Yuz.
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Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Food Chain, eh...
Hopefully the Dolphins don\'t grow Legs and aposible thumbs. Or else we\'re all screwed.
See Yuz.
And no one will fight them because they are too cute :(
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Originally posted by Titan
And no one will fight them because they are too cute :(
Thats what the liberal media wants you to think. Dolphins are ugly creatures who have been known to kill their own for no reason. If they could they would kill you in your sleep.
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I\'ll shove a cork in its blowhole :)
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I don\'t know what to think anymore.
Republicans bitch about F9/11 and it\'s propaganda, but sit back and watch a couple of rich white folk use so many deaths in order to push THEIR AGENDA.
To say that 9/11 was the highlight of Bush\'s career is pretty sad. What if 9/11 wouldn\'t have happened? Would we still love Bush? Would Hussain be out of power? HELL NO.
All I heard at the RNC was "Around the corner..." "Around the corner..." Damn, it must a pretty long turn.
Nice Titan. So we humans are here to control the animal population and ourselves keep on growing and destroying everything we touch...Yup, seems reasonable...That is also the reason Reps don\'t give a shit about trees and we burn them all!! I mean those stupid trees just keep on taking space and we need that in order to build buildings and stuff. I can see the thing about the deers, I mean, we wouln\'t want to have some sort of disease(like aids) spread all over the place(like aids) and infect all humans(like aids)
Did you know that we humans are the only species on this planet that kill ourselves for fun?
If a man need to kill an animal in order to feel like a man, that guy has serious problems.
Instead of the slogan being "4 more years" it should be "Give him another chance!"...
Bush after 9/11:
"WE MUST MOVE ON! GO TO PLANES GO TO VACATION TRAVEL SPEND YOUR MONEY BE NORMAL!! LET\'S PUT 9/11 BEHIND US AND MOVE FORWARD"
Bush and co during RNC:
"9/11 was a terrible thing don\'t forget that. It might happen again if Bush isn\'t president. I mean we haven\'t even caught the guy who was responsible for it! 9/11...9/11..."
Nothing but PATHOS!
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Rich white folk.....heh
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Originally posted by Bozco
Rich white folk.....heh
Figure of speech...before anybody takes it literal and pulls a cheney and emphazices on a words that doesn\'t reflect the overall meaning of the post.
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I don\'t really care but I\'m gonna save my "figure of speech" for another time.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Did you know that we humans are the only species on this planet that kill ourselves for fun?
I would absolutely love a source for this little fact of yours. Last time I checked humans don\'t kill each other for fun....
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
ooseven, WMD was Saddam Hussien. Just like Hitler was for Germany. Remember, the US saved yer tea sipping asses. Otherwise, you\'d be a goose stepping fat Nazi by now.
Saddam Was the modern Hitler ?
So i take it that the Republican army was as well armed as the SS where in their day and Age :rolleyes:
Also for the fact that i would be a be goose stepping fat Nazi by now...
Your Wrong ... I Would be a Kommie As whould the rest of Europe if the US didn\'t join WW2 :D
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Exactly.
That war was going to end Sooner or later due to Hitler\'s idiocy when it came to the Economy and the war situation. Methinks GMan forgets that it\'s the FRENCH that we\'re good at saving, not the entire continent of Europe :-P
See Yuz.
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Wrong - without US aid to both the UK and the USSR, Germany would have beaten them both. Lend Lease was the only thing that kept both countries alive in late 1941 and 1942.
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Yet another fine example of how hypocritical liberals are about freedom of speech. Why must they try and gain entry into an event where they are not invited, where there is no forum for debate and disrupt its proceedings?
NEW YORK - Anti-war demonstrators disrupted a Republican youth gathering on the floor of the party convention Wednesday, shortly after President Bush (news - web sites)\'s twin daughters left the stage.
Jenna and Barbara Bush introduced White House chief of staff Andrew Card. As he began speaking, 10 protesters sitting in the crowd jumped up, blew whistles and began to chant, "Bush kills." They also removed sweat shirts to reveal T-shirts reading "Bush Drop Global Debt Now."
Card tried to continue speaking, but was drowned out and stopped as young participants in the morning event scuffled with the demonstrators. Police moved in to remove the protesters, including a young woman hoisted out by two officers — one at her shoulders and one at her knees.
At least one delegate was slightly injured. Suhr Daniel, 20, of Milwaukee, said he was punched in the head by a protester. He had a cut near his temple and the side of his face was reddened.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_bush_women_6
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Nice Titan. So we humans are here to control the animal population and ourselves keep on growing and destroying everything we touch...Yup, seems reasonable...That is also the reason Reps don\'t give a shit about trees and we burn them all!! I mean those stupid trees just keep on taking space and we need that in order to build buildings and stuff. I can see the thing about the deers, I mean, we wouln\'t want to have some sort of disease(like aids) spread all over the place(like aids) and infect all humans(like aids)
AIDs only affects primates, not deer. Deer get diseases that I don\'t look into when the population is too big (due to lack of food, etc.). I never said that humans go and destroy things and to say that Republicans do so is ignorant. I was merely making a joke that we are at the top of the food chain. I do fully support hunting, controling animal population, I support fishing and I support conservation of natural resources. Bush has given a lot of funding towards alternative energy sources so to say all Republicans don\'t give a shit about the environment is just plain stupid.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t know what to think anymore.
Nice Titan. So we humans are here to control the animal population and ourselves keep on growing and destroying everything we touch...Yup, seems reasonable...That is also the reason Reps don\'t give a shit about trees and we burn them all!! I mean those stupid trees just keep on taking space and we need that in order to build buildings and stuff. I can see the thing about the deers, I mean, we wouln\'t want to have some sort of disease(like aids) spread all over the place(like aids) and infect all humans(like aids)
If we didn\'t keep reproducing so fast and people died alot sooner than we wouldn\'t ahve to chop down trees in order to survive, we need places to live, the only way to do that is clear land out, or do you want us living like the Jetsons?
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Originally posted by mjps21983
If we didn\'t keep reproducing so fast and people died alot sooner than we wouldn\'t ahve to chop down trees in order to survive, we need places to live, the only way to do that is clear land out, or do you want us living like the Jetsons?
Maybe one thing to do is deport all the illegal immigrants. That\'ll clear up some space :p
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Originally posted by mjps21983
If we didn\'t keep reproducing so fast and people died alot sooner than we wouldn\'t ahve to chop down trees in order to survive, we need places to live, the only way to do that is clear land out, or do you want us living like the Jetsons?
And of course those trees are only used for living spaces:rolleyes:
This may sound like something a treehugging hippy would say but there are so many simple things we could give up that would make things so much better. Nascar? Kill it. Trucks and SUV\'s for people that just want to be high and mighty? Make people get permits if they need them and ban them if they dont. Stop getting fat and consuming so damn much. Sure China is poor and has a bunch of skinny people but im pretty sure that we consume way more than they do and they have like a 5th or so of the earth\'s population.
Of course Im not being 100% serious about all of this but there are ways.
Talk about off the subject. ok im done.
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Titan I was alluding to the fact that humans already have diseases spreading among ourselves. I don\'t think a disease from a deer would wipe out all humans...
Anyways we are destroying the environment and think of it as something "natural" B/c we are at the \'top\' of the food chain...Yeah...that\'s going to make a difference when people start selling water and oxygen huh?...
When was the last time you saw ant colonies have a war over money, greed and hate?
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Yet another fine example of how hypocritical liberals are about freedom of speech. Why must they try and gain entry into an event where they are not invited, where there is no forum for debate and disrupt its proceedings?
NEW YORK - Anti-war demonstrators disrupted a Republican youth gathering on the floor of the party convention Wednesday, shortly after President Bush (news - web sites)\'s twin daughters left the stage.
Jenna and Barbara Bush introduced White House chief of staff Andrew Card. As he began speaking, 10 protesters sitting in the crowd jumped up, blew whistles and began to chant, "Bush kills." They also removed sweat shirts to reveal T-shirts reading "Bush Drop Global Debt Now."
Card tried to continue speaking, but was drowned out and stopped as young participants in the morning event scuffled with the demonstrators. Police moved in to remove the protesters, including a young woman hoisted out by two officers — one at her shoulders and one at her knees.
At least one delegate was slightly injured. Suhr Daniel, 20, of Milwaukee, said he was punched in the head by a protester. He had a cut near his temple and the side of his face was reddened.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_bush_women_6
Now that is funny...I don\'t know if your trying to portraying liberals like those in a way to make it seem like every liberal is like that. But hey if liberals can sneek in there and stir shit up and the conservatives couln\'t...who\'s fault is that? And I\'m sure there were cases like those going the other way around.
The only way to be heard now a days is to do something out of the norm. It\'s working. Meanwhile conservatives sit at home going to church every sunday and then going back to work send a couple of thousand soldiers to be killed, have your daddy called the war a crusade and then hope God forgives you...
Hypocritical conservatives...Nah just Christian conservatives...values and morals? Yeah, that\'s why we have Britney Spears divorcing within 3 days or how high the divorce rate is...
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Titan I was alluding to the fact that humans already have diseases spreading among ourselves. I don\'t think a disease from a deer would wipe out all humans...
Eh, whatever.
Anyways we are destroying the environment and think of it as something "natural" B/c we are at the \'top\' of the food chain...Yeah...that\'s going to make a difference when people start selling water and oxygen huh?...
Dude, I was merely makeing a joke about us being at the top of the food chain. Believe me, I believe in conservation and protecting our natural resources and I don\'t agree with all this over developing going on around my town. The town I used to live in was wooded and mostly farmland. It was beautiful when it was. There are only a couple small horse farms left and mostly development for the rich. I live in one of the few middle class areas. Now, deer have less of a place to stay and its mostly on the side of the road after being hit by the many Lexuses that drive through. Its sad when you think about it but I guess developing is inevitable. We need places to stay and are running out of places to build them.