PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Coredweller on September 07, 2004, 09:32:42 PM
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=20&u=/ap/20040907/ap_on_re_us/assault_weapons_2
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban which was signed into law in 1994 by Bill Clinton will expire on Monday, 9/13/04. George W. Bush claims he supports the ban, and just about EVERY police officer supports it, but the Republican-controlled congress has failed to renew it. Is this good or bad for our nation?
Firearms manufacturers are already pre-marketing the previously banned assault weapons which will legally go on sale after Monday. Other laws that prevent the importation of foreign assault weapons will be circumvented by having some parts removed and replaced with US-made parts, thus making them "US-manufactured." Don\'t forget that the law not only banned certain specific weapons, but it also banned magazines of more than 10 rounds in ALL weapons, including handguns.
"Several public opinion polls, including one released this week by the National Annenberg Election Survey, have found deep public support for the ban, even among many gun-owners and conservatives. But the NRA has fought it fiercely."
Some zealous gun supporters claim that this law has not made us safer in the last 10 years, but it\'s a crazy argument. This is an example of the Republican Party doing a great job representing "the people." :rolleyes: What kind of political party adopts a policy against our law enforcement agencies? It\'s our police officers who will be going up against military weapons and large magazine capacities FIRST. It\'s time to put aside the 2nd Amendment rhetoric and NRA donations, and renew this law. We have to maintain at least the minimal protections we\'ve been enjoying for the last decade.
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Cool - I can finally get that AR15 I have always wanted!
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I think you still could have gotten an AR15, couldn\'t you? *runs out to buy AK47 and AR15*
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/10/politics/main642723.shtml
The NRA is a worthless organization that is endangering our lives and our safety. The Assault weapons ban was not renewed because of the NRA. Even this mild, arguably ineffective law could not be renewed because of the NRA\'s mindless zero tolerance attitude. Now police officers will more likely be engaged in gunfights with criminals carrying magazines of 15 or 20 rounds.
I can\'t believe no one else cares about this. American gun nuts should be ashamed. This is not the true nature of our country.
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O.G-ORIGINAL GANGSTA!
Those weapons are pretty deadly man!
I have no problem with Americans owning Firearms as I own 2 hand guns: 2 357 Magnums, and I also own 3 shotguns. All I do with them is target practice at a gun club. Assault weapons should be banned IMO and this is coming from a gun owner. Do you know how many criminals and gang members are going to get a hold of these automatic weapons, all the innocent lives lost, it\'s very, very sad.
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How is the NRA endangering your life? Criminals who commit violent acts with weapons don\'t register them you know.
Police are already fighting with criminals using automatic weapons - I fail to see how letting law abiding citizens buy them makes things worse.
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Here\'s how:
(NOW), You don\'t have to register to legally buy a 20 round clip for your black market 9mm pistol. That is the most immediate impact this will have.
In addition, permitting any military assault weapons to be sold legally to consumers in the United States increases the quantity available at ALL levels of society. Some are stolen, some are sold by unscrupulous gun dealers who do not perform legally required background checks. There are all sorts of holes in the system where the weapons will leak out into the wrong hands.
However, if you stop them from being sold and marketed in the first place, then they never go into the system to begin with. Do you think the urban gangs in the US are smuggling rifles from China? No, those weapons were originally sold by legally authorized US gun dealers in some capacity. They don\'t come from thin air.
I\'m so sick of that argument that "criminals will always have illegal weapons, and won\'t register them..." They won\'t have them if there\'s no supply. It doesn\'t happen overnight, but it needs to start happening. There\'s no sane reason for civilians to own military assault weapons.
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But you can\'t stop guns being smuggled in. If someone really wants one, they will get it. Its like drugs. If someone wants it, it will get smuggled into the country.
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Originally posted by Titan
But you can\'t stop guns being smuggled in. If someone really wants one, they will get it. Its like drugs. If someone wants it, it will get smuggled into the country.
Then tell me why drugs are illegal, and assault weapons are not?
What you\'re saying is crazy. Basically you\'re saying that we have a choice between allowing dangerous military weapons to be sold to civilians in the US, increasing the supply available to criminals, OR making them illegal, and forcing criminals to smuggle them in from other countries, making it enormously more difficult and expensive for those criminals to obtain them. Oh well, they\'re going to get them anyway, so why bother making it harder for them?
Do you seriously believe that?
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Why would anybody need weapons like this to hunt? Its just retarded.
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They are mainly for gun enthusiasts and collectors.
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Maybe gun enthusiasts and collectors should make a little sacrifice and do without them, in the interest of public safety.
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I think you are overreacting. ;)
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Hey! I need someone to debate with! Come on Core! Though secretly I may agree with you on the assault weapons ban, I want to point out another idiotic Kerry comment on the matter. He could have made a more relevant criticism IMO.
Kerry hits Bush for lapse of gun ban
By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The assault-weapons ban expired at midnight with no congressional action to renew it, and Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry blamed President Bush, saying he was aiding terrorists.
"Today, George Bush chose to make the job of terrorists easier, and the job of police officers harder," Mr. Kerry said.
"In a secret deal, he chose his powerful friends in the gun lobby over police officers and families that he promised to protect. The president made the wrong choice for Americans, and the American people are going to pay the price for his choice," he said.
Since when do terrorists come to US to buy guns? Since when do terrorists abide by our laws? Also, fully automatic weapons are still banned.
I was also under the assumption that it took congressional action to renew the ban. Isn\'t Kerry still a Senator? If he felt so strongly about this why wasn\'t he in the Senate proposing this?
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...Because the senate is controlled by republicans, and they refused to allow discussion.
"Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., saw no reason to push for renewal without House support.
"It just doesn\'t make much sense to pass something when the House says it\'s not going to consider it," Frist\'s press secretary, Amy Call, said. "
BTW, this DOES aid terrorists because it\'s now easier for them to obtain assault weapons for a future operation within the US. It\'s not a question of whether criminals (or terrorists) obey gun laws. If the assault weapons cannot be sold to civilians under ANY circumstances, then the supply will be radically diminished. Without a supply there will be fewer people obtaining them illegally.
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I disagree on that point. Terrorists will not go about purchasing assault weapons legally. They would have to go through a background check which I am sure they don\'t want to have to do. Also, one must remember box cutters were used as deadly weapons in the last terrorist attack. Once again these "assault" weapons sound more deadly than they really are. What was really banned:
1. Bayonet mounts
2. Flash suppressors
3. Grenade launchers - already illegal
4. Folding or telescoping stock
That only applies to the semi automatic versions.
The fully automatic weapons are still very hard to obtain:
1. 6 month or longer FBI background check
2. State approval
3. Local law enforcement approval
4. ATF approval
5. Registration of weapon
You act as though one can easily obtain one of these through legal means. I would also like to point out that the DC Sniper was using a "banned" weapon... yeah the ban works. :rolleyes:
Kerry still could have led a call to ban assault rifles on the Senate floor instead of blaming Bush - he should have done his job. Typical finger pointing.
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As I recall, the DC sniper\'s weapon was NOT banned. It was a slightly modified version of a banned weapon which the manufacturer renamed or modified to skirt the law. That\'s why I think we should have a stricter law than we had before, to make sure that weapons which were intended for military use are not sold to civilians.
BTW you missed my point about the terrorists. I\'m not suggesting that terrorists would buy assault rifles in the US legally. Obviously they would buy them on the black market or steal them. What I\'m saying is that having these assault weapons available to consumers also increases their proliferation in illegal markets. Most are first sold legally, observing our weak laws requiring background checks and waiting periods... but some of those weapons first sold legally will eventually make their way to criminals through theft and oversight. Having a legal method of buying the weapons increases the overall supply in the US, which increases the illegal supply as well. It would be much better to cut off the supply at the source, by refusing to allow US manufacturers to build them, and refusing to allow any importation of foreign made assault weapons.
The danger is not just from weapons that can fire in full automatic mode. (Even though many semi-autos can be easily modified to do it). Remember that assault rifles are also defined as having a longer heavier round, larger magazine, and greater range. Assault rifles and submachine guns have application for sport shooting or hunting. They serve no purpose for civilians, and we shouldn\'t allow them in our society.
I don\'t blame Bush for this. He\'s trying to cover his ass as best he can by avoiding the issue. I blame the Republican party as a whole for climbing in the pocket of the NRA. I get a huge laugh everytime a Republican rails against the influence of "special interests..." while the NRA wields incontestable influence over every one of them.
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Where were the Dems? Its not like they couldn\'t have made this an issue in Congress. Also, not every Republican votes along party lines. I am sure if there was enough opposition on the Dem side of the aisle they could have lured a few moderate Republicans over to their side.
Obviously it wasn\'t important to either party.
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So if I moved to the US and became a citizen I could by a P90 for household use ?
Bush For PREZZZzzzzz !
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Then tell me why drugs are illegal, and assault weapons are not?
What you\'re saying is crazy. Basically you\'re saying that we have a choice between allowing dangerous military weapons to be sold to civilians in the US, increasing the supply available to criminals, OR making them illegal, and forcing criminals to smuggle them in from other countries, making it enormously more difficult and expensive for those criminals to obtain them. Oh well, they\'re going to get them anyway, so why bother making it harder for them?
Do you seriously believe that?
Dude, you are saying stuff I said that I didn\'t. I never said that it wouldn\'t make it harder or easier. I know banning them would make it harder for criminals to get them and I do agree with the ban. I was just saying that the assault rifles will make it in the country no ban or not. You are just putting words in my mouth.
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Originally posted by ooseven
So if I moved to the US and became a citizen I could by a P90 for household use ?
Bush For PREZZZzzzzz !
Tony Blair Rules!!!!!!
British by Birth
English by the Grace of God!
Isn\'t that how it goes ooseven? ;)
In answer to your question - no you couldn\'t own one.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Tony Blair Rules!!!!!!
British by Birth
English by the Grace of God!
Isn\'t that how it goes ooseven? ;)
In answer to your question - no you couldn\'t own one.
giga...just a little tip for you..
Blair is the leader of our socialist party and WE all hate him.
the only reason why he is still in power is because the opposition is PISS poor.
Dictatorship by Proxi
/me vomits.
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Blair is the best thing to happen to Britain since Margaret Thatcher.
The Green Party will never be in a position of national power - even you, Der Kommisar have to admit that. ;)
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Is it true that a majority of the American people are for a ban on the assault weapons?
I feel sorry for the US Police Force. We\'ve seen here what a assault rifle in the wrong hands can do (Mattias Flinc shot down 7 people in 1994 with a AK5).
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Originally posted by Titan
Dude, you are saying stuff I said that I didn\'t. I never said that it wouldn\'t make it harder or easier. I know banning them would make it harder for criminals to get them and I do agree with the ban. I was just saying that the assault rifles will make it in the country no ban or not. You are just putting words in my mouth.
Why don\'t you make your point clearer next time. The content of your post, along with the previous post, suggested that you were refuting the need for a ban. I don\'t think it would be strange to read it that way.
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Originally posted by fastson
Is it true that a majority of the American people are for a ban on the assault weapons?
I feel sorry for the US Police Force. We\'ve seen here what a assault rifle in the wrong hands can do (Mattias Flinc shot down 7 people in 1994 with a AK5).
Yes its true, but at the same time this is a big deal over nothing. It really won\'t matter if there is a ban or there isn\'t a ban. However, it will make Core feel as safe as the French at Dien Bien Phu if there is a ban.
(I fully expect that joke to fly over most people\'s heads)
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Originally posted by fastson
Is it true that a majority of the American people are for a ban on the assault weapons?
I feel sorry for the US Police Force. We\'ve seen here what a assault rifle in the wrong hands can do (Mattias Flinc shot down 7 people in 1994 with a AK5).
Yes, 68% of US citizens, 1/3 of NRA members, and pretty much every police office in America supports this ban, yet the NRA controls the agenda on these issues. I seriously think perhaps the NRA should be outlawed as a threat to our public safety. They need to consider their choices more carefully, and return to reality in their policies. They are out of control.
I think what\'s going to happen is someone will go on a rampage with a legally purchased AK-47, or a pistol using a 20 round clip, and then this whole thing will blow up in their faces. You know it\'s probably going to happen...
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Do you have any idea about what your talking about ?
Mr Blair is the Worse thing to happen to our country in a long while.
all you lot see is his lap dog antics in the war on terror.
While over here he is crippling our country with political correctness and bureaucracy.
That\'s when he\'s not to busy trying to sell us all out to the European union aka the second new world order
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ooseven you sound more like a nationalist than a socialist... hey maybe you are a national socialist! ;)
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Originally posted by Coredweller
I think what\'s going to happen is someone will go on a rampage with a legally purchased AK-47, or a pistol using a 20 round clip, and then this whole thing will blow up in their faces. You know it\'s probably going to happen...
Funny you say that... it already happened when the ban was in effect.
http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0%2C2061%2C572026%2C00.html
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Actually I am more and more leaning towards being a British Conservative.
But i still don\'t totally agree with some of their values.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Actually I am more and more leaning towards being a British Conservative.
But i still don\'t totally agree with some of their values.
Now that you mention it I have noticed that you have been making some oddly conservative posts lately.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Yes its true, but at the same time this is a big deal over nothing. It really won\'t matter if there is a ban or there isn\'t a ban. However, it will make Core feel as safe as the French at Dien Bien Phu if there is a ban.
(I fully expect that joke to fly over most people\'s heads)
I don\'t know how you can minimize the importance of this. It\'s one of those things where you think it doesn\'t affect you, and then one day (god forbid) a friend or a family member may be killed by firearm, and then suddenly it becomes more important. We need to get beyond our personal interests, and think about issues like this as a broader public policy.
Nothing will solve the problem 100%, but somethings will help reduce the problem.
BTW I don\'t understand what connection Dien Bien Phu has with US police officers being outgunned by bank robbers and gang members.
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See my post about it already happening - a few posts up from here when there was a ban. This is what I meant with the joke - it will give you a false sense of security. The expiring of the ban won\'t make a bit of difference in crime rates or how easy it is to get a gun.
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Hey conservatism isn\'t a dirty word.
and getting off your lasy ass and helping yourself and those around isn\'t Evil.
It\'s just the like the Librals like the concertives have their own Loony wing.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Funny you say that... it already happened when the ban was in effect.
http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0%2C2061%2C572026%2C00.html
Yeah, the original law was weak in limiting sales of specific assault weapon models.... They listed them by name, then the manufacturers just modified them a little and sold them again under a different name. That\'s why we need a stronger law than the one we had before. Just because it was inadequate doesn\'t mean we should have NOTHING to replace it.
Another part of the law DID WORK very well. That was the limitation on large capacity magazines. You can\'t argue with that one. It worked, and it saved lives.
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Blow up in whose face Core?
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Blow up in whose face Core?
The NRA, and all the politicians that yield to their irrational positions.