PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GigaShadow on September 20, 2004, 09:20:54 AM
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Allies seen snubbing
W on Iraq aid
BY KENNETH R. BAZINET
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
WASHINGTON - The White House isn\'t counting on getting military help in Iraq from antagonistic allies until after the U.S. elections, if at all, a U.S. official told the Daily News.
Underscoring Democrat John Kerry\'s claim last spring that some world leaders said they\'d prefer that President Bush be turned out of office, well-equipped powers like Russia, China, France and Germany won\'t offer to send troops to protect UN officials working to hold elections in Iraq in January.
"There is no way anybody is going to step up before the [American] election. It\'s personal enmity toward the President. They can\'t stand him," said the official, who asked not to be named.
"Somebody should step up and protect the UN election officials as they try to promote democratic elections in a sovereign nation that had been run by a despot. ... It\'s a shame, regardless of how we got there," the official added.
To help fill the void, the U.S. will turn to countries trying to build alliances with the West, such as Uzbekistan, to provide some troops to help protect the UN staffers.
A French official denied that France, other NATO allies and world powers weren\'t helping in Iraq, pointing to plans to train Iraqi police and pay to support the upcoming vote.
The French official accused the White House of trying to open old wounds to try to win Bush votes.
"They are spinning for domestic political reasons," the official said. "If Kerry is elected we wouldn\'t send troops either. We don\'t need more targets in Iraq."
The issue will likely come up in private talks with world leaders when Bush holds meetings coinciding with this week\'s opening session of the UN General Assembly.
Bush will address the UN Tuesday and hold meetings with the leaders of India, Pakistan, Japan and Afghanistan and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan. He\'s to meet Thursday in Washington with new Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.
Kerry\'s whole policy of rebuilding alliances and getting help from Europe (France) just went up in smoke.
:laughing:
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According to one unnamed "official?" :rolleyes:
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If it worked for Rather it works for me... speaking of which - the Dems got caught red handed didn\'t they?
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If by "Dems" you mean CBS, then yes.
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No I mean the Dems... Max Cleland is a Kerry advisor. He is the one that was in contact with Burkett before they were handed over to CBS. Rather who is so rabid in his hatred toward the GOP and the Bush family in particular was all too eager to believe they were real.
The Kerry campaign had a role in those documents... it would be naive to believe they didn\'t.
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What does this have to do with Cleland? Just because Scott McClellan says there was a connection between Cleland and Burkett doesn\'t automatically make it true. I\'d like to see some evidence of that.
I think there\'s still a strong possibility the forgeries came from Karl Rove. Who else would have such easy access to documents that were supposedly destroyed years ago during Bush\'s gubenatorial campaign? Don\'t forget that Killian\'s secretary said the content of the memos was CORRECT, and that Killian did believe and write those things. The forgeries were probably copies of identical originals with intentional errors thrown in. There\'s no reason for Burkett or the Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot by parading such obvous false memos riddled with errors.
BTW there\'s no point in saying that Democratic decision makers were behind this, when it\'s obvious that Bush\'s advisors were behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. We all know the kettle is black.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
What does this have to do with Cleland? Just because Scott McClellan says there was a connection between Cleland and Burkett doesn\'t automatically make it true. I\'d like to see some evidence of that.
I think there\'s still a strong possibility the forgeries came from Karl Rove. Who else would have such easy access to documents that were supposedly destroyed years ago during Bush\'s gubenatorial campaign? Don\'t forget that Killian\'s secretary said the content of the memos was CORRECT, and that Killian did believe and write those things. The forgeries were probably copies of identical originals with intentional errors thrown in. There\'s no reason for Burkett or the Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot by parading such obvous false memos riddled with errors.
BTW there\'s no point in saying that Democratic decision makers were behind this, when it\'s obvious that Bush\'s advisors were behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. We all know the kettle is black.
Killians secretary? :laughing: Yeah she is credible... Also most who served with Killian said he never had that opinion. Burkett is widely considered the source of the memos.
"Burkett, a retired National Guard lieutenant colonel, also admits that he deliberately misled the CBS News producer working on the report, giving her a false account of the documents\' origins to protect a promise of confidentiality to the actual source," network spokeswoman Kelli Edwards said in the statement.
So Burkett is protecting Rove??? or one of Rove\'s underlings?
:laughing:
No reason for Burkett to shoot himself in the foot????? Scott McClellan said what???? No, Burkett said it himself.
Adding more fuel to the fire, Burkett, who lives in Abilene, Texas, has now also said that he passed the documents on to former Sen. Max Cleland, a Georgia Democrat and triple amputee from Vietnam, who is working with the campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry (search). Burkett also has urged Democratic activists to wage "war" against Republican "dirty tricks."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132906,00.html
It is one thing for the a group of veterans to have opinions of events that happened 30 plus years ago - it is quite another to forge official documents.
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I thought you were saying that Burkett GOT THEM from Cleland. As we see, he only gave copies to Cleland. That doesn\'t mean the Democratic party had anything to do with it.
No, I don\'t think that Burkett would be protecting Rove. Obviously, Rove would use 1, 2, or 3 sanitized intermediaries to get the memos to Burkett. I think Burkett doesn\'t know who he\'s been serving.
Also, why do you always quote Foxnews articles? Why not use a source at least a little closer to impartiality, like CNN.com or something?
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Being reported on Fox somehow makes it less true? Please...
I like Fox News - funny how they are the #1 US news channel now. Anyway, Fox is more balanced than CNN - being as they don\'t have any one on their payroll that is an advisor to either campaign unlike CNN ie. James Carvell. What you see as a right slant is merely not the left slant that you are accustomed to.
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Man you are pretty far gone if you think Foxnews is not right slanted. Roger Ailes, the CEO of Fox News, was the chief media consultant for G.H.W.Bush, and he also worked for Reagan and Nixon. He\'s not just an on-air personality. He runs the place.
Also, I can\'t believe you have a problem with CNN. They have been the most perfect Iraq war backers a conservative could dream of. During the first three weeks of the current Iraq war, only 3% of US sources quoted on evening news shows (including ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, and PBS) were antiwar. On Fox, 81% were prowar.
I guess that if a network ever airs a single opinion that is anti-bush or anti-war, then it becomes "liberal biased?" For a news source to be balanced, it has to have 50/50 conservative & liberal opinions. None of the major news sources are 50/50, and they are definitely not liberal biased.
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Give me a break - don\'t you see a conflict of having Carvelle as a staff member at the same time he is an advisor for Kerry?
If anyone working for Fox was advising GWB at the same time they were working there the outcry from the rest of the media would be deafening.
I also do believe Fox gives a more unbiased/untainted by liberal editors slant. Dan Rather and CBS are the prime example of liberal tainted journalism.
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But Dan Rather was the one who said
"George Bush is the president... Wherever he wants me to line up, just tell me where and he\'ll make the call." - Late Night with David Letterman, 9/17/01
and
"Look, I\'m an American. I never tried to kid anybody that I\'m some internationalist or something. And when my country is at war, I want my country to win, whatever the definition of win may be. Now I can\'t and don\'t argue that that is coverage without a prejudice. About that I am prejudiced." - Larry King Live, 4/14/03
You see any glimpse of dissent, and then you flash out the "Liberal Bias" cattle brand. It doesn\'t fly man.
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Core,
You know as well as I that Dan Rather has had a history of attacking GOP Presidents - Nixon, Bush Sr. and now Bush Jr.
I think you need to read this:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15157
PS Dan Rather is an Acid Freak.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Man you are pretty far gone if you think Foxnews is not right slanted. Roger Ailes, the CEO of Fox News, was the chief media consultant for G.H.W.Bush, and he also worked for Reagan and Nixon. He\'s not just an on-air personality. He runs the place.
Also, I can\'t believe you have a problem with CNN. They have been the most perfect Iraq war backers a conservative could dream of. During the first three weeks of the current Iraq war, only 3% of US sources quoted on evening news shows (including ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, and PBS) were antiwar. On Fox, 81% were prowar.
I guess that if a network ever airs a single opinion that is anti-bush or anti-war, then it becomes "liberal biased?" For a news source to be balanced, it has to have 50/50 conservative & liberal opinions. None of the major news sources are 50/50, and they are definitely not liberal biased.
tru...
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Originally posted by clips
tru...
Some of you crack me up. Why do you think most of the news outlets supported the war? Probably because about 80 percent of the public was in favor of the war at the time.
All the Fox News haters have yet to point out any examples of the conservative slant that they claim Fox News has when reporting stories. Don\'t even mention O\'Reilly as his show is an op ed and not news. When Fox reports news it is just that... unbiased news. When CBS reports news - we all know what side of the political arena they sit on. Is it any surprise that CBS News market share is down drastically in 7 of the top 10 markets in the US? I honestly believe if their numbers wouldn\'t have been affected they would still be sticking by those bogus documents.
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giga do you honestly believe fox news reports news right down the middle? oh yea they report the news, but they also give a little comment or to afterwards to show that they are a conservative grp..don\'t ask for proof just watching the channel is enough to know that they are..i think you\'re the one that\'s brainwashed by them..
cnn on the other hand reports the news down the middle..and when they have intervierws on discussing a view of either bush or kerry..i see the news reporter asking tough questions about both candidates...fox news is a conservative news network,..and you can tell that just by watching it...
i do tend to check out bbc as well,..they give a totally different look on the international news scene as well...
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Yes I do think Fox is the most unbiased of the cable news networks. Do you completely read what I post? CNN has two individuals in their employment who are key advisors to the Kerry campaign. If you don\'t see the conflict of interest there you are blind.
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So the Kerry campaign was involved in the memos...
Kerry aide talked to Texan at center of disputed Guard documents
Associated Press
NEW YORK - A top adviser to John Kerry says he talked to a central figure in the controversy over President Bush\'s National Guard service at the suggestion of a CBS News producer shortly before disputed documents were released by the network.
But Joe Lockhart denied any connection between the Kerry campaign and the papers supplied to the network by the Bill Burkett, the former Texas Army National Guard official he telephoned at CBS\' suggestion.
"He had some advice on how to deal with the Vietnam issue and the Swift boat" allegations, Lockhart said late Monday, referring to GOP-fueled accusations that Kerry exaggerated his Vietnam War record. "He said these guys play tough and we have to put the Vietnam experience into context and have Kerry talk about it more."
Lockhart, the second Kerry ally to confirm contact with Burkett, said he made the call at the suggestion of CBS producer Mary Mapes.
The White House called the exchange evidence of coordination between the Kerry campaign and Burkett.
"The fact that CBS News and a high-level adviser to the Kerry campaign coordinated a personal attack on President Bush is a stunning and deeply troubling development," said White House communications director Dan Bartlett. He urged Kerry to hold accountable anybody involved in helping CBS obtain the documents.
Lockhart denied any involvement. "Bartlett is wrong," he said later Monday.
Earlier, Lockhart said he thanked Burkett for his advice after a three- to four-minute call, and that he does not recall talking to Burkett about Bush\'s Guard records. "It\'s baseless to say the Kerry campaign had anything to do with this," he said.
Later, Lockhart said he was sure he had not talked to Burkett about the Guard documents. Burkett did not return a phone call to The Associated Press. He told USA Today in a story for Tuesday\'s editions that his interest in contacting the campaign had nothing to do with the documents.
"My interest was to get the attention of the national (campaign) to defend against the attacks," Burkett told the newspaper.
CBS News apologized Monday for a "mistake in judgment" in its story questioning Bush\'s Guard service, claiming it was misled by the source of documents that several experts have dismissed as fakes. The network said an independent panel would look at its reporting about the memos.
CBS News spokeswoman Kelli Edwards said Mapes had declined to comment.
"This is an example of the kind of thing that the independent panel that will be named in a few days will look into. When that review is complete, we will comment," Edwards said.
Burkett admitted this weekend to CBS that he lied about obtaining the documents from another former National Guard member, the network said. CBS hasn\'t been able to conclusively tell how he got them, or even whether they\'re fakes.
Kerry ally Max Cleland, a former Georgia senator, also said he had a brief conversation last month with Burkett, who told him he had information about Bush to counter charges against Kerry\'s Vietnam War service. Cleland said he gave Burkett\'s name and phone number to the campaign\'s research department.
Kerry spokesman David Ginsberg said nobody in the campaign\'s research department followed up on Burkett\'s offer of information.
Lockhart said Mapes asked him the weekend before the story broke to call Burkett. "She basically said there\'s a guy who is being helpful on the story who wants to talk to you," Lockhart said, adding that it was common knowledge that CBS was working on a story raising questions about Bush\'s Guard service. Mapes told him there were some records "that might move the story forward," Lockhart said. "She didn\'t tell me what they said."
This is almost as bad as Watergate.
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this is not as bad as it seems..i mean if this person was just tryin to get some dirt on bush..and the info was wrong..it really isn\'t the networks fault..i mean whoever gave cbs the info is at fault here...now if cbs and the kerry advisors deliberately made up fake documents then got busted..then heads should roll...if i\'m reading this wrong correct me,..but that\'s just how i see it...
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Now clips, it\'s their job to make sure it\'s truth as opposed to jump on the first chance of trashing bush.
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well if they didn\'t investigate throughly the source, then they deserve what they get..i would have thought you know with cbs being around as long as it has would have checked the info out instead of just blindly taking someone\'s word for it...