PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Titan on September 24, 2004, 02:33:11 PM
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A friend just sent this to me and I perused it a bit. Never heard of this in the news. This bill probably won\'t pass and this petition probably won\'t have any affect. What do you guys think?
http://www.savep2p.com/
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3 years of jail, here i come. :(
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OK yeh this sucks, but isnt there allready laws against pirating software, music, movies - ie copying it and puting it out onto the internet for otheres to download and this hasnt stopped anyone from doing it at all.
If companies didnt overcharge for CD\'s etc this probably woudnt happen, if a CD was 10 pence i would *probably* buy the CD as that is averagely how much it cost to produce one - no matter how many tracks are on it - and dont give me crap about bands losing money because of they charge £13 for an album they are making £12.50 profit, so just let the big fans buy music, DVD\'s etc becasue they always will if they like the band enough, i did it myself recently.
Quite simply its going to take a hell of a lot of tracking down and jailing people that do this for anything to be damaged in relation to P2P technology. I seem to remember laws being passed making it illegal to send spam e-mail...yeh that worked.
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The spamming of email laws are probably just a slap on the wrist.
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Its only fair guys. Peoples jobs and money are being stolen by the whole public, and nobody has the guts to admit it but a few. You cant justify stealing loads of songs or movies over the net.
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I can, but I have the power of analytical thought
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Welcome to the new technology age. Where companies rely on the goverment to secure their intellectual properties.
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eh. Screw this. I learn about more music through p2p than i ever would anywhere else right now. It is pretty sad/funny how some people get all of their cd\'s off p2p networks and if there was a way to ban people from doing that 24/7 then id be fine with that i guess. Ive bought many cds from learing about/hearing them off p2p.
meh.
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Originally posted by PS2_-\'_\'-_PS2
OK yeh this sucks, but isnt there allready laws against pirating software, music, movies - ie copying it and puting it out onto the internet for otheres to download and this hasnt stopped anyone from doing it at all.
If companies didnt overcharge for CD\'s etc this probably woudnt happen, if a CD was 10 pence i would *probably* buy the CD as that is averagely how much it cost to produce one - no matter how many tracks are on it - and dont give me crap about bands losing money because of they charge £13 for an album they are making £12.50 profit, so just let the big fans buy music, DVD\'s etc becasue they always will if they like the band enough, i did it myself recently.
Quite simply its going to take a hell of a lot of tracking down and jailing people that do this for anything to be damaged in relation to P2P technology. I seem to remember laws being passed making it illegal to send spam e-mail...yeh that worked.
12.50 is the gross profit and certaintly a big difference from Net.
My complain about it is that they should have offered us a method to choose the tracks we want and pay for the ones we want for.
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Originally posted by PS2_-\'_\'-_PS2
OK yeh this sucks, but isnt there allready laws against pirating software, music, movies - ie copying it and puting it out onto the internet for otheres to download and this hasnt stopped anyone from doing it at all.
If companies didnt overcharge for CD\'s etc this probably woudnt happen, if a CD was 10 pence i would *probably* buy the CD as that is averagely how much it cost to produce one - no matter how many tracks are on it - and dont give me crap about bands losing money because of they charge £13 for an album they are making £12.50 profit, so just let the big fans buy music, DVD\'s etc becasue they always will if they like the band enough, i did it myself recently.
Quite simply its going to take a hell of a lot of tracking down and jailing people that do this for anything to be damaged in relation to P2P technology. I seem to remember laws being passed making it illegal to send spam e-mail...yeh that worked.
Overchage for CD\'s give me a break man. All new cd\'s that come out at $9.99
After that they are usually 13.99
I buy all my music from bestbuy/target/Recordtown.
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DR. Wax is the best place to get cheap music here. Then there are the shops in the burbs but If you live in Chicago - Dr Wax is the place.
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Peer to peer isn\'t the problem. It\'s cd burners and recordable discs.
But record companies like Sony don\'t go after those because guess who makes and profits off them?
La laa la la la, corporate nonsense.
All I know is I download music like crazy to make mix discs of cds I would never buy. Then I go and buy cds I want.
la la al al lal a
-Dan
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Overchage for CD\'s give me a break man. All new cd\'s that come out at $9.99
After that they are usually 13.99
I buy all my music from bestbuy/target/Recordtown.
Good for you then you obviously like being ripped off and thats fine for you if you can afford it, a lot of bands say "its all about the music" - yeh right. When you rip your fans off grossly and roll around in money i bet u cant wait to make another album that sounds exacltly the same as all the other crap out there and still make millions off it.
The fact is it costs a fraction of the ammount of money you hand over for the CD than it does to produce it.
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Well if you cant afford it, do what most people did before p2p.... DONT BUY IT!
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Boo Hoo Hoo!!!
"Record companies overcharge me for their crappy music so I get back at them by stealing it off the net..."
No one forced you to buy it in the first place...
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It is wrong to download CD\'s instead of buying them.
But I think its okay to download a couple of songs to find out what a band sounds like.
But then again, it is still against the law. I just don\'t care.
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I don\'t download CDs but I do download catchy songs I see on TV or hear on the radio and make my own mixes. Some of the bands I download I do have plans on buying. If its a crappy band with one or two good songs, I\'ll just download the songs.
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I steal music from the internet.
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Originally posted by Halberto
Well if you cant afford it, do what most people did before p2p.... DONT BUY IT!
When I couldn\'t afford CDs when I was younger, I recorded them off the radio :)
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Originally posted by PS2_-\'_\'-_PS2
Good for you then you obviously like being ripped off and thats fine for you if you can afford it, a lot of bands say "its all about the music" - yeh right. When you rip your fans off grossly and roll around in money i bet u cant wait to make another album that sounds exacltly the same as all the other crap out there and still make millions off it.
The fact is it costs a fraction of the ammount of money you hand over for the CD than it does to produce it.
It may cost less to actually manufactor the cd. But it is very costly for artist to make the records. They gotta pay producers, writers, engineers, pay for the studio time. Guest appearences. It can be very costly for an artist to make a cd.
10 bucks is nothing. If you can\'t afford 10-14 dollars for a cd then don\'t listen to music.
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Originally posted by Halberto
Its only fair guys. Peoples jobs and money are being stolen by the whole public, and nobody has the guts to admit it but a few. You cant justify stealing loads of songs or movies over the net.
Did you see where a company is suing smaller companies due to the fact they sell online? The one company says that it has a patent on online selling, also known as e-commerence. It\'s bullshit like this that is hurting the American people and American companies.
Originally posted by Capcom
Welcome to the new technology age. Where companies rely on the goverment to secure their intellectual properties.
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When I couldn\'t afford CDs when I was younger, I recorded them off the radio
Me too. ;)
Quddus but what if you wanted to make a mix CD of only 12 songs that were from 10 different artists? That\'s $100 right there assuming each CD is at the low low price of $9.99 (most aren\'t).
I like iTunes. 12 songs = $12. But this is for people 18+ that are able to hold a credit card. Kids under 18 aren\'t, but at the same time they are the main ones whoring the P2P programs.
And let\'s get to the real reason why album sales are getting to record low numbers; the music out there sucks. Just turn to MTV and see what they\'re trying to push on us.
http://www.mtv.com/music/
I see Hilary Duff featured on the main page. There is just a lot of sh*t out there right now. Personally I have a handful of bands I\'m willing to plunk down the cash for their entire album, other than that I\'ll go to itunes for the occasional dance or hip/hop song. Downloading songs for free gets lame when you have a job and a credit card.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
It may cost less to actually manufactor the cd. But it is very costly for artist to make the records. They gotta pay producers, writers, engineers, pay for the studio time. Guest appearences. It can be very costly for an artist to make a cd.
never downloaded anything off p2p?
Originally posted by QuDDus
10 bucks is nothing. If you can\'t afford 10-14 dollars for a cd then don\'t listen to music.
For a start here in britain we get ripped off - ie its nowhere near $10 - $14 for a CD here! Just went to a currency converter and its $23.50 for an album over here - the new green day album is this in my local HMV for example. Double discs are $28.80. Even if i wanted to pay this much in a complilation (and i have dont get me wrong i will support a band if i like them enough) album like Kerrang for example there is still going to be a whole load of crap on there that i dont want to hear.
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People still whine about paying "high prices", eh?
This isn\'t bread we\'re talking about...
You don\'t need music to survive...
You CAN\'T justify stealing music...
And if the music out there sucks so much, why are you downloading it?
Save your HD space for porn...
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Im sure whoever is complaining about how the music sucks isnt "stealing" that music. Thats the beauty (if you can call it that) of p2p. Rare or a broad range of items can be found much easier on a p2p network vs best buy etc.
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Give me a break. That arguement is pathetic. Why you ask? Because , the basic argument concerns this../
(1) There is no good music.
(2) The record companies and artist make to much money to begin with.
(3) You can\'t find the good music at Best Buy.
Alright,let\'s tackle this one at a time.
(1) No good music? That\'s subjective and you can not tell me that is the reason you download music off the internet. Admit it, you steal it because you are a cheap bastard.
(2) You said the good music (rare) can\'t be found at Best Buy. Right, it can\'t. However, I know for a fact it can be found online or a lot of times at a local record store. Either way - if it\'s good music, shouldn\'t you be a good consumer and pay that good artist? Or is that to much to ask?
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
(2) ... - if it\'s good music, shouldn\'t you be a good consumer and pay that good artist? Or is that to much to ask?
Yes. I said that b4 - if its a band i really like i am willing to line the pockets of them - i am happy to contribute because i want them to make more songs. However if it is a band i dont listen to much or i just want to hear some more of then i will just d/l it because i would never purchase, for exaple an album, just bcoz i liked one song.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Give me a break. That arguement is pathetic. Why you ask? Because , the basic argument concerns this../
(1) There is no good music.
(2) The record companies and artist make to much money to begin with.
(3) You can\'t find the good music at Best Buy.
Alright,let\'s tackle this one at a time.
(1) No good music? That\'s subjective and you can not tell me that is the reason you download music off the internet. Admit it, you steal it because you are a cheap bastard.
(2) You said the good music (rare) can\'t be found at Best Buy. Right, it can\'t. However, I know for a fact it can be found online or a lot of times at a local record store. Either way - if it\'s good music, shouldn\'t you be a good consumer and pay that good artist? Or is that to much to ask?
I hope you arent debating the 3 sentances i just posted. Not because of the "oh hell naw" factor but just because thats a little blown out for just 3 sentances, not to mention i was just pointing out the fact that im sure the music that people say sucks probably isnt being downloaded by the people that say it. Shit if i know though. I wouldnt be included there.
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Metallica is rich. I\'m poor. I\'ll burn some of their songs and they can make money off touring.
We both win.
I just bought the new Greenday, by the way. What a wacky world of contradiction.
God bless my cd burner and inexpensive recordable discs. Without them I\'d never be able to satisfactorily steal so much music like I do.
Heh, anyway if a musician doesn\'t make enough money, he can get a real job.
Wow, all this talk reminded me that I heard a good Fabolous song and wanted to steal it. Excuse me while I go send Fabolous packing to the unemployment line.
-Dan
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
(1) No good music? That\'s subjective and you can not tell me that is the reason you download music off the internet. Admit it, you steal it because you are a cheap bastard.
I too find the "no good music" arguement to be stupid, even though I\'ve used it before too :crap: And I too am a cheap bastard :p
(2) You said the good music (rare) can\'t be found at Best Buy. Right, it can\'t. However, I know for a fact it can be found online or a lot of times at a local record store. Either way - if it\'s good music, shouldn\'t you be a good consumer and pay that good artist? Or is that to much to ask?
I buy the bands I like. Why? Because I want to support them. I\'ve only downloaded one CD. Why? I\'m a cheap bastard. I download the individual songs and make mixes out of them. A few times, I have the CD but download a couple of my favorite songs to put on another mix. I\'ve got one CD, I liked a couple songs so much that I downloaded them after I got the CD.
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Metallica is rich. I\'m poor. I\'ll burn some of their songs and they can make money off touring.
We both win.
That still does not give you the right to go stealing from artist. If you get caught downloading music you should get whatever is coming to you thats the risk you take when stealing.
I can\'t preach to you though I have a lot of free programs on comp oh sh*t let me get f*ck out here I\'ve said to much.
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Now, would downloading a TV show you missed the night before, would you guys consider that stealing? Like lets say I missed last nights episode of South Park (brand new). I didn\'t set the tape. Would you guys think its stealing if its not for sale but you download it anyway the next day or a few days after? I\'m just curious what you guys think.
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Originally posted by Titan
Now, would downloading a TV show you missed the night before, would you guys consider that stealing? Like lets say I missed last nights episode of South Park (brand new). I didn\'t set the tape. Would you guys think its stealing if its not for sale but you download it anyway the next day or a few days after? I\'m just curious what you guys think.
i would say that its not stealing if u CANT buy it, like yeh an episode of neighbours or something - not like many people record them, but anyway - Neighbours will never b released on DVD so i would say this is totally acceptable. South Park is slightly different though becasue its possible that a season will be realesed on DVD etc
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I haven\'t downloaded anything P2P for about 3 years now. I rather support the artists I like and buy their music. My problem with artists today is the fact that alot of CD\'s, as of lately, have a ton of filler on them. That\'s why I use I tunes. I can download one song, or actually sample the entire CD before I pay for it. Most albumns are about $9.99. sometimes, new releases are like $11.99.
And I refuse to pirate Movies.
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Lets say CD\'s cost the price you wanted them to, i bet you all would still download songs because it would be to inconvinient to go to a store, i know i would.
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Maybe, I wish I got cd\'s at $9.99, though. They\'re almost twice that by me.
I don\'t know about my rights regarding downloading music, I just know I do it guiltlessly. I wasn\'t going to buy that Ozzy/Phish/Madonna/Nirvana/Blues Traveler/Jadakiss/United States Air Force Band/Alabama/Twisted Sister/American Idol/Frank Sinatra/Kid Rock....... cd anyway.
I was, however, going to buy Greenday\'s album. And I did.
I could download music all day long and the music industry wouldn\'t lose a dime.
... This got me thinking about the times I borrowed cds from my friends and listened to them. Record labels didn\'t get any money for that, either... I probably don\'t have the right to borrow things from my friends.
-Dan
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Originally posted by MPTheory
And I refuse to pirate Movies.
Same here. I will download small clips of movies or trailers but I believe those are legal. If I like a movie, why would I hurt the company and download it when I can buy the movie so the company can keep cranking out good high budget movies.
Originally posted by cloud345
Lets say CD\'s cost the price you wanted them to, i bet you all would still download songs because it would be to inconvinient to go to a store, i know i would.
I probably would too, lol.
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Going by the logic that musicians and their companies are so rich that stealing from them won\'t hurt them...
Well, lets legalize murder...
Heck...
More than 6 billion people and most of them don\'t contribute in anyway to the world...
Getting rid of them would only help and there\'ll still be plenty to procreate...
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Wow, that was a bold leap in logic.
Let\'s compare a 14-year-old girl downloading a Britney Spears song on Kazaa to murder.
I\'d say that, in fact, oranges and apples have a lot in common.
-Dan
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Originally posted by Ashford
Going by the logic that musicians and their companies are so rich that stealing from them won\'t hurt them...
Well, lets legalize murder...
Heck...
More than 6 billion people and most of them don\'t contribute in anyway to the world...
Getting rid of them would only help and there\'ll still be plenty to procreate...
Im sorry but you are an idiot
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Still trying to act like stealing is ok, eh?
Better to be an "idiot" than a thief...
Murder may be an extreme example...
You steal from the rich because whats a few dollars?
Kill a few from an overpopulated planet...
Whats a few lives here and there?
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Originally posted by Ashford
Still trying to act like stealing is ok, eh?
If i was NEVER going to buy it - how is it stealing?
Originally posted by Ashford
Kill a few from an overpopulated planet...
Whats a few lives here and there?
You are still an idiot - u just cant compare the two so stop trying.
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You really can\'t.
But remember, it\'s STILL stealing, it\'s just that no one loses any money. It\'s a victimless crime.
-Dan
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Originally posted by PS2_-\'_\'-_PS2
If i was NEVER going to buy it - how is it stealing?
lets all give a standing ovation for this logic
I was NEVER gonna buy this car, so how is it stealing?
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Originally posted by Halberto
lets all give a standing ovation for this logic
I was NEVER gonna buy this car, so how is it stealing?
I was thinking something around those lines myself :laughing:
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Call me an idiot one more time...
I notice no one else has resorted to name-calling and rather than actually debate, you\'re just acting childish...
A weak argument is better than no argument...
And who\'s really the idiot?
You think taking something without paying is NOT stealing?
You are a thief, end of story...
Grow the f**k up, get a job, and quit bitching about how music companies rip you off...
Funny how the ones who steal music are the ones who cry they\'re being ripped off...
How are you being ripped off if you didn\'t pay anything?
:rolleyes:
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He is fairly right. I mean i feel torn inbetween parts of both arguments that could be presented but if this were a debate, then i know exactly what ash is saying. Take nike - they get away with everything. I mean Nike has moved locations to get cheap labor so many times its not even funny. These things cost cents to make and the design process behind making each shoe isnt always so vast either.
Yet people will buy nike shoes that will last maybe a year or so for over a hundred dollars. I guess people dont steel them because its not that easy but people still buy them. If you want to talk about people getting away with murder then look at companies like nike.
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I\'ve already admitted that I gave a lousy comparison but the point is, if you download songs for free, you\'re a thief...
There is no argument...
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Well p2p here in Iceland is all but dead as of Sept 28.
Our RIAA / MPAA clone managed to get their way and there was a major bust on our local network. 12 people in jail, 100 being questioned by the cops later to be jailed most likely and w whole lot more bs.
Most people here were using Direct Connect to form a local network, it had grown quite big, almost 5% of the population was there every day and 270tb of data offered.
Suffice to say, everything is going crazy, people say their privacy is being ignored and whatnot, the RIAA clone says it\'s losing money and I can\'t get my newest Stargate Atlantis episode.
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Sorry, but I have little sympathy for people who know they\'re committing a crime and then cry about it when they get in trouble for it, no matter how small or "victimless" it is...
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Some people were commiting blatand copyright theft such as movies that are still in or not even in the theaters yet.
However things like TV shows are a grey area, they are shown on open air and sharing them on the internet is no different than sharing on vhs for instance.