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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GmanJoe on October 04, 2004, 11:18:45 AM
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http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/rally/13153/
If all the transmissions are gonna come from one source....that means Subies are out. And an Impreza with an inline engine just isn\'t a Subaru.
Also no more Turbos. :mad:
Edit - can one of you mods change the WC to WRC? Please?:)
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That\'s crazy, you can\'t have the WRC without a high powered turbo engine!!! :eek:
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You can edit the title by yourself I think buddy
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What\'s the logic? They trying to create a bettter standard of engineering or something?
And why isn\'t Bigfoot allowed in WRC? It\'s offroad right?
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Just like the article says, the changes are necessary. The only team hurt badly by the changes is Subaru, since they are the only ones not running a transverse mounted block. However, Nicky Grist said on the Speed Channel coverage yesterday that Subaru was planning to develop a transverse engine just to comply with the new rules. So it seems they know how important rallying is to their image, and they are willing to throw some money at the problem.
I think this is going to be great for the sport. Non-turboed engines and single supplier transmissions will be more reliable than many of the current setups. So what if the cars are a little slower? Rallying is about control and skill in cornering, not blazing fast straights. I love watching films of old rallies with slower, older cars. It\'s every bit as exciting.
Lets not forget.... Now that WRC cars will be naturally aspirated 2 liter 4 cylinders... there is one Japanese manufacturer who excels in designing engines of that type, and is not currently known as a rally car manufacturer. The company who built the highest output naturally aspirated production car engine in history... Their name begins with an "H" :D
Maybe we will have some new factory teams entering the WRC?
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There are more regulations to it. Big Foot would never win. Only an idiot would try to enter such a thing (that is if they could in the first place).
This is crappy news.
And where did it say anything about inline engine?
And screw turbo. Supercharge! Idk. I like Naturally Aspired engines anyway.
To hear of the possibility of the WRC dying is just sad.
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Didn\'t Toyota have a 250hp 4-cyl in an MR2 at one point or another? I hope Honda does well though, they know 4 bangers.
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That MR2 was turboed, so it doesn\'t apply.
BTW, Suzuki has expressed interest in the new rules, so there\'s another possible new factory team.
Anyone remember the old days in the 70\'s when they didn\'t have intake restricters? It was normal for rally cars to run with 500 -600hp back then. The governing body discovered the cars were too dangerous, so they changed the rules. Rule changes to reduce performance are normal in rallying.
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Originally posted by THX
Didn\'t Toyota have a 250hp 4-cyl in an MR2 at one point or another? I hope Honda does well though, they know 4 bangers.
Toyota knows them fairly well. 260HP 4 cyl in a formula atlantic 4AGE. I think they have a new one thats 20 vavles and a very high revving engine (11 or so thousand rpms).
Come on toyota!
:p
Anyone remember the old days in the 70\'s when they didn\'t have intake restricters? It was normal for rally cars to run with 500 -600hp back then. The governing body discovered the cars were too dangerous, so they changed the rules. Rule changes to reduce performance are normal in rallying.
Yeah i dont remember how many the horses the stratos has but that had to be one of my favorite rally cars of the era. Mmmm... so sexy.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
The company who built the highest output naturally aspirated production car engine in history... Their name begins with an "H" :D
Since when does Mazda start with an \'H\'?
*puts on flame suit*
:p
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I won\'t even dignify that nonsense. But hey I would love to see Mazda enter a rally as a factory team. Unfortunately they are owned by Ford, and Ford is already cutting their motorsports budgets around the globe. They\'ve committed to scaling back Ford Rallye Sport, and Markko Martin is leaving the team for Peugeot. Lame assed Ford. Remind me never to buy a Ford. Never mind, I don\'t need to be reminded.
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I think the cost for non-turboed cars will be more expensive to squeeze more HP out of an N/A engine. Look at what happened to F1 when they had a similar ruling about no turbos. The cost to get more HP out of an N/A engine was tremendous.
Subaru did express interest in the inline engine but I don\'t know how they\'d get past the homologation ruling. They\'d have to start marketing inline engines to the masses. That\'s not Subaru!
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Sort of OT here... does speedtv broadcast WRC? I have looked and tried to find it, but it must be called something else in the program guide. Can anyone help me out here? Thanks. ;)
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Speed\'s WRC coverage airs on the Sunday night of the weekend of the Rally. The first broadcast begins at 9pm EST. The next rally is Corsica, on the weekend of 10/15 - 10/17. Look for the SpeedTV coverage on Sunday night, 10/17, at 9pm EST, 6pm PST. They also do a rebroadcast a few hours later.
I don\'t think you can compare the F1 costs to WRC. Remember that WRC entrants are limited to 4 cylinder 2 liter engines, and as you said, there is a road car homologation required. They aren\'t going to be developing 10 cylinder engines turning 18K rpms, with pneumatic valves. :)
I don\'t know what Subaru is going to do. I agree that going to an inline transverse 4 cylinder is a step backwards for them. The boxer engine was superior because it provided a lower center of gravity. I\'ll have to keep an eye on the Subaru news to see what they are revealing about their plans.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
I don\'t think you can compare the F1 costs to WRC. Remember that WRC entrants are limited to 4 cylinder 2 liter engines, and as you said, there is a road car homologation required. They aren\'t going to be developing 10 cylinder engines turning 18K rpms, with pneumatic valves. :)
Why not? Heck, ~you~ try getting 300hp out of your car without a turbo and compare the cost to bolting a turbo on.
And if everyone is getting their tranny from one source (like NASCAR) that eliminates the most fundemental aspect of WRC - that those cars are not too far derived from its commercial cousins.
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Obviously they\'re not going to be 300hp... but they will probably be 250 - 260hp. We\'re not talking about millions of dollars here, we\'re talking about thousands of dollars.
I don\'t understand your point about the transmission. WRC transmissions were always wild ass high tech systems that had no connection whatsoever with their mass market factory equivalent. This is not going to change that... it will just increase reliability because they\'ll be going with a more conservative, proven design.
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I would have to agree with cored on this one. The trannies wont matter TOO much. As for squeazing horses out, it wont be to incredibly hard. Of course turbo is the easiest way to go but you cant forget the things that come with it to make it run smoothly. Obviously you just cant throw one in and expect everything to be fine and dandy.
Plus, isnt the S2000 a 250 hp NA stock? Im pretty sure. AND its 4 cylinders correct? With a lightwhweight frame they will be able to do a lot.
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The S2000 1st gen engine, the F20C, makes 240hp. A racing engine with shorter longevity could certainly be built to make 260hp or more without forced induction. It\'s all a matter of who has experience with high power, small displacement engines. Honda, Toyota, Suzuki, even Subaru and Peugeot / Citroen should be successful. Ford & Skoda will probably fall by the wayside.
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Im no expert but Peugot and Citroen experts on low displacement/high output engines? Maybe im just not thinking but if it wasnt for the turbos, both the 206 and the xsara would be very lacking and stock more or less. Like i said i could just not be remembering things right.
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Originally posted by THX
What\'s the logic? They trying to create a bettter standard of engineering or something?
And why isn\'t Bigfoot allowed in WRC? It\'s offroad right?
If you think they can drive a bigfoot just like a rally car and even manage good times then think again :)
There are also other categories of off road racing where the bigfoot might be accepted to race.It just doesnt fit to the WRC category
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Why not? Bigfoot would easily crush these puny cars and you know it. USA baby!
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Originally posted by THX
Why not? Bigfoot would easily crush these puny cars and you know it. USA baby!
Yeah and then it would fall off a damn cliff and that would be the end of it.
Nature BABY!
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Obviously they\'re not going to be 300hp... but they will probably be 250 - 260hp. We\'re not talking about millions of dollars here, we\'re talking about thousands of dollars.
I don\'t understand your point about the transmission. WRC transmissions were always wild ass high tech systems that had no connection whatsoever with their mass market factory equivalent. This is not going to change that... it will just increase reliability because they\'ll be going with a more conservative, proven design.
That\'s just it. One source trannies pretty much put a hold on innovation, a la NASCAR. And as for your "no connection to their mass market factory equivelant" - not quite accurate. The DCCD was derived from WRC. :) Subies have them! :D
This is still all just talk right now. There\'s still a lot of room for compromise. If not, FIA WRC is not the only rally racing organization around.