PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Lord Nicon on October 04, 2004, 04:55:07 PM
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Link (http://netscape5.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?dist=feed&siteid=netscape&guid=%7B90243DC2%2D2830%2D427E%2DB833%2DE2C19A4FE33E%7D)
So Fox caters to the right? Interesting. This is quite the goof. I wonder if people actually believed what they wrote. Its always bad when even the media is biased.
meh.
At least these werent televised quotes.
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Is this any worse than CBS doing a story on phony National Guard documents?
Not even close - these "quotes" were an attempt at a joke. An inappropriate one, but anyone with intelligence who read them knew so.
" \'Didn\'t my nails and cuticles look great? What a good debate!\' Kerry said Friday ...Women should like me! I do manicures,\' Kerry said."
The item also quoted Kerry as saying of himself and President Bush: "I\'m metrosexual -- he\'s a cowboy."
CBS should keep its mouth shut while its ahead. :rolleyes:
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Same stupidity.
CBS has alot more credibility on their side though. That Bush story was a very small problem compared to Fox\'s other "mistakes"
Remember a few days ago when Kerry was supposed to come out on Regis and Kelly?
Well Fox "accidentaly" cut away from the exact point of Kerry\'s appereance and showed an empty podium where the President was to deliver his speech to the UN. Then after they "realize" what happened, they go back to Regis and "coincidentaly"(sp) it was right on time with Kerry\'s segment being over.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Same stupidity.
CBS has alot more credibility on their side though. That Bush story was a very small problem compared to Fox\'s other "mistakes"
:rolleyes: What other mistakes? Some guy in charge of the website decided to make a joke? So what you are saying is trying to pass fake government documents off as the real thing is better then some guy posting a tongue in cheek story of Kerry quotes?
You never cease to amaze me with your ignorance and lack of critical thinking.
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I think they\'re both unprofessional and whoever was invovled shouldn\'t have a job anymore.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
:rolleyes: What other mistakes? Some guy in charge of the website decided to make a joke? So what you are saying is trying to pass fake government documents off as the real thing is better then some guy posting a tongue in cheek story of Kerry quotes?
You never cease to amaze me with your ignorance and lack of critical thinking.
I don\'t think CBS KNEW that they were fake files. They presented them as fact because they believed them to be fact. I never heard them say anything about knowing that the files were fake.
THAT IS A MISTAKE!
A "mistake" is what they did with the presence of Kerry in the Regis and Kelly show. That\'s a "mistake" right there...
And I\'m sure those flyers were a joke also huh?
You never cease to amaze me with your arrogance.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t think CBS KNEW that they were fake files. They presented them as fact because they believed them to be fact. I never heard them say anything about knowing that the files were fake.
THAT IS A MISTAKE!
A "mistake" is what they did with the presence of Kerry in the Regis and Kelly show. That\'s a "mistake" right there...
And I\'m sure those flyers were a joke also huh?
You never cease to amaze me with your arrogance.
The mistake was believing they were real when they were told they weren\'t. The ongoing pattern of CBS\'s (ie. Dan Rathers) conflict with the Bush family is well known. His zeal to report a possibly damaging story on Bush backfired because he didn\'t check his facts. If this webpage incident would have been on CNN and had humorous Bush quotes none of you would be complaining about it. It just shows that partisanship causes blindness in some.
Also as for the meterosexual comment - that was pretty funny considering Kerry gave an exclusive interview to Advocate only a few day prior. When I read it, I didn\'t think twice that he would actually say something like that. As for the painted nails... please - get a sense of humor.
Lastly... what the hell are you rambling on about with the Regis and Kelly show? What does that have to do with anything?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t think CBS KNEW that they were fake files. They presented them as fact because they believed them to be fact. I never heard them say anything about knowing that the files were fake.
THAT IS A MISTAKE!
And all the intelligence told Bush that Iraq had WMDs...
I don\'t think Bush KNEW it was wrong. They presented them as fact because they believed them to be fact.
THAT IS A MISTAKE!
Not a lie...
Really, could you show anymore double standards when it comes to Bush?
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you want a lie, how about this one (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/28/politics/main646142.shtml)...
"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories."(May 29, 2003)
"I recognize we didn\'t find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there." (Sept. 9, 2004)
-President Bush
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/29/politics/main646435.shtml
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As if Bush doesn\'t Flip-Flop...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/28/politics/main646142.shtml
http://econ161.berkeley.edu/movable_type/2004_archives/000444.html
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=118263
I could pull up a dozen of these but I don\'t feel like it for this thread. I cited my source for a lie, it just happened to be on the same page as some Bush Flip Flop\'s:p
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Originally posted by Ginko
you want a lie, how about this one (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/28/politics/main646142.shtml)...
"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories."(May 29, 2003)
"I recognize we didn\'t find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there." (Sept. 9, 2004)
-President Bush
Are you insinuating that bush got on his trusty camel and road out there and found the WMDs himself?
HE was going off of intelligence (Or lack there of).
How is that a flip flop.
I haven\'t been here in a while. I see we still have the same nutty people in here.
Mr. Bling Bling is still spoutting his poop as well I see.
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Originally posted by Ashford
And all the intelligence told Bush that Iraq had WMDs...
I don\'t think Bush KNEW it was wrong. They presented them as fact because they believed them to be fact.
THAT IS A MISTAKE!
Not a lie...
Really, could you show anymore double standards when it comes to Bush?
Yeah, now 1000+ soldiers are dead?
Maybe they shouln\'t have rushed into the war and have checked their sources?
It\'s their job to figure this kind of stuff out. Presenting fake files as fact only damages one persons ego. Presenting fake issues that would result in the death of others damages and entire nation.
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I guess you know for a fact that the president KNOWINGLY presented fake issues. Same fake issues that everyone in the senate and house passed the resolution to go to war for. Nevermind. It\'s pointless.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Some guy in charge of the website decided to make a joke?
There both stupid but its worth noting that the guy responsible wasn\'t some random website guy. He was in charge of Fox\'s coverage of the Kerry campaign and is in fact one of their top political correspondants.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Are you insinuating that bush got on his trusty camel and road out there and found the WMDs himself?
HE was going off of intelligence (Or lack there of).
How is that a flip flop.
I haven\'t been here in a while. I see we still have the same nutty people in here.
Mr. Bling Bling is still spoutting his poop as well I see.
I\'ll post it again just in case you missed something...
"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories."(May 29, 2003)
"I recognize we didn\'t find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there." (Sept. 9, 2004)
-President Bush
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You have no point.
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Originally posted by videoholic
I guess you know for a fact that the president KNOWINGLY presented fake issues. Same fake issues that everyone in the senate and house passed the resolution to go to war for. Nevermind. It\'s pointless.
I think the president KNOWINGLY presented issues without enough or proper support for them. I think the president didn\'t spend as much time as they needed in order to strenghten the claims he had made. His own cabinate said before that Hussain wasn\'t a threat. His own cabinate(Rumsfeld I think) disagreed with the president over Iraq.
When the issues went to the senate the senate got the same deal the American people got. The president made it seem as if there were Nukes in Hussains possesion and used that in order to get the people to support his war. The senate is made up of those people also and when we have a president that has ferociously presented a sense of grave danger to us after such an attack as 9/11 all we could do is give in to them.
Kerry is right that Hussain needed to be dealt with but like he said there was a proper way to do it. This war was rushed and unplanned and now we are losing many American lives for it. Bush\'s own people have come out and said that there wasn\'t enough troops when the war began and so did Rumsfeld. They didn\'t have a plan to exit. Now it\'s too late to send in more soldiers because the terrorist have already infiltrated Iraq enough to be able to attack our troops in a country which Bush has so loosely called Democratic.
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Originally posted by videoholic
You have no point.
I\'m sorry that you don\'t feel it\'s an issue. I called it a lie, by the way, not a flip flop and it was in reference to Ashford\'s post. I refered to the flip flops after Giga retaliated with his "Top 10 Kerry Flip Flops" link.
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That top 10 flip flop was on your link!
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
That top 10 flip flop was on your link!
"I cited my source for a lie, it just happened to be on the same page as some Bush Flip Flop\'s:p"
The quote I supplied happened to be on the same page as the flip flops. They were just an added bonus. :D
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So only Bush\'s flip flops are true even though they listed Kerry\'s as well. Man the hypocracy in here is getting thick. :rolleyes:
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At least we now know that Bush isn\'t as "consistent" as he claims.
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So only Bush\'s flip flops are true even though they listed Kerry\'s as well. Man the hypocracy in here is getting thick.
huh? Where did I say that?
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Let\'s get one thing straight about a flip flop. A flip flop in regards to politics is not a simple reversal of ones view or stance on a policy. It is numerous reversals on the same policy. How many stances has Kerry had on Iraq alone? Approximately a dozen! That my friend is flip flopping. "He was against it, then for it, then against it again, then for it, then against it, for it again, against it again... I think you get the point.
Simply changing your view once does not a flip flop make. ;)
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Wait...you just suggested that I\'m a hypocrite and now you\'re trying to explain the rules of flip flopping? It looks like CBS has it all wrong, better shoot them an email and set it straight.:rolleyes:
In the mean time stop putting words in my mouth.
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Then learn what the GOP is talking about when they refer to flip flops.
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I seriously don\'t care what the GOP has to say in regards to flip flops, it\'s ridiculous that they\'re even riding on such a silly term.
Fact of the matter is that Bush has changed his mind on issues just as Kerry has.
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Originally posted by Ginko
I seriously don\'t care what the GOP has to say in regards to flip flops, it\'s ridiculous that they\'re even riding on such a silly term.
Fact of the matter is that Bush has changed his mind on issues just as Kerry has.
You totally miss the point. Republicans started using the term flip flop in this campaign to describe Kerry\'s voting record on given issues. Take Iraq for instance. Kerry has had at least a dozen different stances on this topic alone. The only reason Kerry is a "dove" on Iraq is because Howard Dean was taking that stance when he had the momentum during the campaigns. It is one thing to change your mind once - maybe even twice, but Kerry has done it numerous times. Bush has not taken 10 different positions on one issue.
I am sorry if you have some personal grudge against the term, but a flip flop is a good term used by the GOP and Bush supporters to describe Kerry\'s political behavior. Its great that two simple words like flip flop can generate such reactions from liberals such as yourself. ;)
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A personal grudge against the term?! lol...I don\'t take any of this stuff personally as it\'s not worth it. I wouldn\'t consider myself a liberal but I\'m certainly not a conservative, never been one for labels...I\'m just me and I\'m looking at this presedential race as it happens. I have no loyalty to either party and I\'ll change my mind on them at the drop of a hat.
I acknowledge that Kerry has changed his stance on Iraq but it\'s been beaten to death. The debates as of late have cleared up the confusion for myself and I like what I hear. The rest of his so called flip flops, those I\'m aware of, have been exaggerated and other than that can be directly compared to Bush\'s own.
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Woah woah woah!!
Could we all just stop saying flip flop?!
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Originally posted by Ginko
A personal grudge against the term?! lol...I don\'t take any of this stuff personally as it\'s not worth it. I wouldn\'t consider myself a liberal but I\'m certainly not a conservative, never been one for labels...I\'m just me and I\'m looking at this presedential race as it happens. I have no loyalty to either party and I\'ll change my mind on them at the drop of a hat.
I acknowledge that Kerry has changed his stance on Iraq but it\'s been beaten to death. The debates as of late have cleared up the confusion for myself and I like what I hear. The rest of his so called flip flops, those I\'m aware of, have been exaggerated and other than that can be directly compared to Bush\'s own.
Was I the only one to hear Kerry\'s explanation for what Bush calls a "flip flop"?
Did he not say that he agreed that Hussein needed to be dealt with but there was a wrong and a right way about it?
Did he not say that Bush chose the wrong way?
Did he not explain the reason why he voted against the bill that would give our troops "body armor"?
I\'m sorry but those things aren\'t flip flops any more. It\'s sad how you can quote Kerry on some issues but not on others.
Biggest flip flop of all
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction...Maybe he doesn\'t...He doesn\'t.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041007/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_weapons&cid=540&ncid=716
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20041007/ts_washpost/a12115_2004oct6&cid=1802&ncid=1480
A flip flop that has cost our soldiers lives. And the "oops I was pretty damn sure he had some" excuse doesn\'t cut it.
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It is obvious that quite a few of you don\'t grasp the real meaning behind the phrase. Kerry\'s voting record in the Senate speaks for itself.
As far as no WMD\'s. The report still states that Saddam was a threat. Bush\'s conservative base could care less if there were an WMD\'s or not. The world is better off without Saddam in power.
You can\'t blame Bush for believing there were WMD\'s when intelligence agencies in London, Moscow and Cairo, as well as the US, all agreed Saddam had them and was stockpiling them. Why don\'t those who believe Bush is wrong for going into Iraq focus on the real problem leading up the invasion of Iraq - the UN and its corrupt oil for food program?
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
It is obvious that quite a few of you don\'t grasp the real meaning behind the phrase.
Looks like YOU don\'t grasp the real meaning of the word...I don\'t care for any spin the GOP has put behind it.
Main Entry: flip-flop (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=flip-flop&x=16&y=12)
Pronunciation: \'flip-"fläp
Function: noun
1 : the sound or motion of something flapping loosely
2 a : a backward handspring b : a sudden reversal (as of direction or point of view)
3 : a usually electronic device or a circuit (as in a computer) capable of assuming either of two stable states
4 : a rubber sandal loosely fastened to the foot by a thong
- flip-flop intransitive verb
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Originally posted by Ginko
Looks like YOU don\'t grasp the real meaning of the word...I don\'t care for any spin the GOP has put behind it.
Main Entry: flip-flop (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=flip-flop&x=16&y=12)
Pronunciation: \'flip-"fläp
Function: noun
2 : a sudden reversal (as of direction or point of view)
You just proved my point. There is no spin if we are going by the definition you listed. Kerry\'s sudden and numerous reversals (as in point of view). :laughing:
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Actually I just proved that bush does the same thing by that very definition.
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Speaking of Saddam and WMD\'s:
Without WMD\'s, why exactly was Saddam such a major threat that we had to act right away and scope him out? Yes a leader serves many purposes including the retention of stable morale, but what was it that made him so dangerous? Were there plane squadrons at his disposal that allowed him to attack us on our home soil? Could he send short range weapons to attack us or whoever?
I dont know all the details but any head figure in the upper echelon of Saddam\'s "army" could have organized an attack on our soil so why Saddam and why with such urgency?
I mean have we selflessly gone in solely to protect the innocent people of that land? Have we lost all these lives for that? I doubt it.
This is what isnt making sense to me.
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I could be wrong but from what I\'ve read the intelligence suggested that Saddam had stock piles of weapons and was planning to use them. When was he planning to use them? I don\'t know of any intelligence report that clarifies it and declares an immediate threat.
What bothers me about it is that ALL the intelligence was dead wrong and leads me to believe there were other motives involved to have such a quick and unorganized effort. I just don\'t understand how there could be that big of a **** up.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
As far as no WMD\'s. The report still states that Saddam was a threat. Bush\'s conservative base could care less if there were an WMD\'s or not. The world is better off without Saddam in power.
is the world better off without n.korea? iran? syria? i\'m not gonna touch this one as it will result in me sounding like a broken record..i\'ll just say this..the world was better off with saddam in power..why?...there would be no american lives lost..and we had a close watch on him, regardless of what you think of the sanctions..he wasn\'t capable of doin anything...
now it\'s complete chaos..and whether the u.s. wants to admit it or not there simply isn\'t enough troops to secure all of iraq..period...
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Originally posted by clips
is the world better off without n.korea? iran? syria? i\'m not gonna touch this one as it will result in me sounding like a broken record..i\'ll just say this..the world was better off with saddam in power..why?...there would be no american lives lost..and we had a close watch on him, regardless of what you think of the sanctions..he wasn\'t capable of doin anything...
now it\'s complete chaos..and whether the u.s. wants to admit it or not there simply isn\'t enough troops to secure all of iraq..period...
All of you are forgetting one major point. Iraq under Saddam was the only country listed in "the Axis of Evil" to actually use chemical and biological weapons on its neighbors and own people. How can you justify that he was not a threat?
If you were President following 9/11 and knowing Saddam had used WMD\'s before and all intelligence reports were saying he did possess WMD\'s you would have known if another attack using WMD\'s would have happened you definitely would have been impeached. Blame the messenger - not the President. Anyone with any leadership skills would have done exactly the same thing including Kerry. It is easy for him to say it was a mistake and he would have done things differently in hindsight. The fact remains Saddam would have rearmed and been a problem down the road regardless of him not possessing any significant WMD\'s leading up the war.
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i agree with everything you stated to a point...i like everybody else in america wanted somebody to pay after 911...and yes if i was presented with the intelligence that the prez had...i\'m still not sure if at that time i would have said "okay let\'s go take care of saddam"...for two reasons
1...he wasn\'t the one directly responsible for 911 and even if he did had wmd\'s this war could\'ve been implemented at a later date..i would\'ve focused more on afganastan (spel)
2...colin powell didn\'t agree with the intelligence from the jumpoff...he told bush and rumsfield that he wouldn\'t go to the u.n. with what was presented to him...it seemed he was the only one that had common sense on the situation...i felt he was pressured into going to the u.n....bush & co. nwanted the iraq war so bad it was disgusting...we\'ve all seen how aggressive and arrogant bush was up to the point of war...
this war was a mistake...just like how kerry stated it was a mistake how he went about talkin about the 83 billion dollar vote ( which i felt he did an excellent job debating bush that night) i know it would be a major blow for the bush admin.. to admit that this thing was a mistake and a failure...
when i mean failure i mean in achieving our objectives..no wmd\'s..major blow...and even after we\'ve defeated them i would\'ve thought at least "okay there\'s gonna be small uprisings here and there, but we\'ll shut that down and send our troops home"...that is not happening.. our troops are gonna be over there for at least the next 5 years..what do think the body count will be by then?...if the iraqi army and police is not fully realized? it\'s a very ugly picture....
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Giga....these peace niks are the same type of people who thought Winston Churchill was being paranoid about Hitler. Churchill demanded action well before Hitler invaded any country.
Hussien would have eventually acquired more deadly weapons.
*sandal wearing tree huggers suddenly stops singing Kumbaya just to reply to me*
:D
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Hussien would have eventually acquired more deadly weapons.
ah shaddap! :p nobody knows what saddam would\'ve done..but we do know for a FACT that saddam was held in check with our sanctions..and i\'m sure most americans would have preferred that situation over the chaos in iraq currently...
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Originally posted by clips
ah shaddap! :p nobody knows what saddam would\'ve done..but we do know for a FACT that saddam was held in check with our sanctions..and i\'m sure most americans would have preferred that situation over the chaos in iraq currently...
I suggest you reread the report regarding the sanctions and his desire to reacquire WMD\'s.
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hmph! Smelly tree hugging hippie! *kick tamborine out of clips grubby paws* :p
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I suggest you reread the report regarding the sanctions and his desire to reacquire WMD\'s.
uhm...can somebody direct me to this report? :) and uh..screw you gman! :p
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Originally posted by clips
uhm...can somebody direct me to this report? :) and uh..screw you gman! :p
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Comp_Report_Key_Findings.pdf
It is in PDF - look at 3rd and 4th bullet point also look at the text in italics right under the 4th bullet point.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
hmph! Smelly tree hugging hippie! *kick tamborine out of clips grubby paws* :p
Tamborine. lol thats too vegan/tree hugger. But that couldnt possibly be clips. Hes black. We dont play tamborines :p.
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^^^thanks bro..i read it,... not all of it just the points you spoke of...and while he may have been wanting to aquire the technology for wmd\'s..i still feel that this war with iraq..could have been held off...it\'s kinda complicated tho..knowing and reading this report now in the sense that...yea saddam shouldn\'t have wmd\'s or the weapons to deliver them..i agree 100% as you saw what he did considering he had not used any in 91 gulf war....
but the thing is this does the u.s. have the right along with other countries to tell them that they can\'t have wmd\'s while u.s. russia and china has them? being realistic i\'d have to regretably say yes...obly because i feel the said countries in question imo iran,..syria and n.korea are unstable and are lead by leaders that don\'t give a s**t...
on the flip side it isn\'t really fair for countries to say who can have what type of weapons and such...at any rate thanks for info giga and if anything it really hasn\'t changed my stance as far as us going to war at that moment last year...(i still feel that it could\'ve waited) but my view has changed as far as his intentions are concerned...good read..
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............why was there a page long discussion on filp flopping? I honestly must have read that word at least 100 times before skipping ahead half the thread to this post. You people argue like a bunch of hooligans! :)
Just so you know, Saddam did posses items that breached the papers he signed.........the only problem is that that was like 10 years ago.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Tamborine. lol thats too vegan/tree hugger. But that couldnt possibly be clips. Hes black. We dont play tamborines :p.
clips ain\'t been black since 1996! He\'s a tamborine bangin\', banjo pickin\' tree hugger! :D