PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Deadly Hamster on October 08, 2004, 06:52:57 PM
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Thoughts?
I thought Kerry owned Bush. Everyones saying oh "Bush did betterrr" but BETTER isn\'t always good enough.
Kerry won on Health Care, Supreme Court, the Patriot Act. Bush tied him on taxes, and Bush probley beat him on the war just because of the idea everyone has drilled into their heads about Bush.
Id say
Kerry gets an A
Bush Gets a B-
Im putting my money on Kerry to take this election. He will dominate Bush on domestic policies, and he has the momentum rolling.
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I strongly disagree - it is a draw.
Nothing new at all. Frankly, I don\'t think I will be tuning into the 3rd one. A few factual errors by both candidates. Bush dropped the ball on a few questions and Kerry keeps stating he has a "better plan" on just about everything. The question is - what are these plans? Just saying you have a better plan does not a plan make.
Kerry will raise your taxes - that is one clear message I got out of that. He did not IMO give a clear definitive answer to the gentleman\'s question regarding raising taxes for people who earned under $200,000.
Lastly - this election is not about domestic policy. It all about Iraq and the War on Terror.
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Kerry will raise your taxes
.... Are you serious? what about that part when he DIRECTLY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION? Remember? right.
For me (given, I can\'t vote) This is about domestic policy. And Kerry is a little sissy bitch. He is trying to act like a moderate, none of these two will uphold the constitution. But Kerry is slightly better about the Patriot Act and gay rights.
Im not sure how everyone else will respond to this debate, but I was much more impressed with Kerry this time. It is clear that he was more emotional, and I thought he explained his reasons very well. Concerning his abortion votes anyway. Although Bush didn\'t even acknowledge his explenations.
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I can\'t comprehend how Kerry is going to pay for all of these things that he says he has a plan for without raising taxes. It just makes no sense. Hitting Bush with job loss numbers and recession problems is really unfair. He had a very tough time in his term and it sure seems like things are heck of a lot better now than they were 3 years ago. At least domestically.
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i was interested on the part about
stem cells...
I am for stem cells research so they can cure people...
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Bush was out of control in part of it and looked unprofessional. Kerry won it.
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I wasn\'t overly impressed with either of them though Bush was much better prepared this go around. Right now I\'m saying it\'s a draw and like Gigashadow I\'m not sure if I\'ll bother tuning in next week.
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I agree Ginko - if you don\'t know who you are voting for now - you aren\'t voting IMO. I doubt either candidate will come up with any "new" material by the next debate and am I the only one here who thinks these debates are about 30 minutes too long?
Lastly, I don\'t really care who wins the debate - the so called experts can give their in depth analysis all they want - the winner of the debates will be declared on November 2... well maybe shortly there after if this election is as close the polls suggest.
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Kerry won it. Bush\'s ego seemed to have popped when he demanded the right to answer and interrupted the moderator.
Bush didn\'t answer the question about how they are going to cut the deficit.
The "internets" polls show that Kerry won.
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Why would you point out how the internet polls went when we obviously don\'t care?
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Internet polls are about as credible as the homeless crack addict down the street.
No offense to either party.,
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bush definitely did better this this time around..tho i still felt kerry got the overall edge...he explains his answers in great detail and before i really didn\'t know where kerry stood on anything..i liked how he acknowledge that he wasn\'t a flip flop and how he explained why he voted against certain policies...
bush seemed more relaxed this time around tho there were a couple of instances where i thought he was a wee bit out of control...there was one funny stint in there were kerry accused bush of having a wood company..and bush was like "what? that\'s news to me" he then turned to the moderator and said "want some wood"? :laughing:...
both candidates have very similiar views... i don\'t think kerry is as weak as i once thought of him to be but overall i still give the edge to bush as far as the presidency is concerned...and only because i feel he still is the stronger leader and needs to clean up iraq....
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Kerry won it. Bush\'s ego seemed to have popped when he demanded the right to answer and interrupted the moderator.
Bush didn\'t answer the question about how they are going to cut the deficit.
The "internets" polls show that Kerry won.
Actually it was Kerry who didn\'t answer it. He jumped ship onto another entirely different topic and barely came back.
As far as Busch jumping on the moderator. I liked it. It showed that the guy has authority and he does what he needs to do.
I just think Kerry lives in lala land and none of what he speaks of is possible.
You guys realize that his wife paid less than 15% in taxes last year? Do you realize that almost all of her production is done out of the country? What a great way to lead by example.
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Originally posted by clips
bush definitely did better this this time around..tho i still felt kerry got the overall edge...he explains his answers in great detail and before i really didn\'t know where kerry stood on anything..i liked how he acknowledge that he wasn\'t a flip flop and how he explained why he voted against certain policies...
bush seemed more relaxed this time around tho there were a couple of instances where i thought he was a wee bit out of control...there was one funny stint in there were kerry accused bush of having a wood company..and bush was like "what? that\'s news to me" he then turned to the moderator and said "want some wood"? :laughing:...
both candidates have very similiar views... i don\'t think kerry is as weak as i once thought of him to be but overall i still give the edge to bush as far as the presidency is concerned...and only because i feel he still is the stronger leader and needs to clean up iraq....
lol i didnt catch the wood part. As a matter of fact i slept on the whole thing. I was pretty pissed off that i had missed it. BTW, i thought you said kerry had the edge first?
STOP FLIP FLOPPING!
damn.
j/k
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Originally posted by videoholic
You guys realize that his wife paid less than 15% in taxes last year? Do you realize that almost all of her production is done out of the country? What a great way to lead by example.
I think Bush should have hammered this home. Theresa won\'t release her tax records - yet the Bush\'s do. What is she hiding?
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The fact check at the end showed that Bush had received $84 from partial interest in a timber company.
Bush got a laugh when he scoffed at Kerry\'s contention that he had received $84 from "a timber company." Said Bush, "I own a timber company? That\'s news to me."
In fact, according to his 2003 financial disclosure form, Bush does own part interest in "LSTF, LLC", a limited-liability company organized "for the purpose of the production of trees for commercial sales." (See "supporting documents" at right.)
So Bush was wrong to suggest that he doesn\'t have ownership of a timber company. And Kerry was correct in saying that Bush\'s definition of "small business" is so broad that Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business" in 2001 by virtue of the $84 in business income.
>>>Link<<< (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@docID=275.html)
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Originally posted by Ginko
The fact check at the end showed that Bush had received $84 from partial interest in a timber company.
>>>Link<<< (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@docID=275.html)
The problem is, Kerry put it way over everyone\'s head. Not an effective argument if no one understands what you are talking about.
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This was a much more even debate. Kerry and Bush both had their moments. In particular I liked the point Kerry made about Missouri being the third largest country in the "Coalition of the Willing" and his argument about not "legislating religion" when it comes to abortion.
When Bush came back with his For/Against statement on the partial birth abortions I think it kind of made him look a little bad. Especially after Kerry talked about the issue not being as easy as yes or no when their are other factors involved. I think that question may have gotten Kerry some supporters.
Bush owned Kerry when the lady brought up the question about punitive damages and trial lawyers. Kerry was trying to talk his way out of the question and giving political answers and Bush came right back and called him out about not even showing up to vote on the same things he talked about in his answer.
Also, Bush always wants to respond to every rebuttal but doesn\'t always offer anything worth continuing for. When he forced the moderator to give him some more time by talking over him I at least expected some insight on the statement.
The issue of Canadian drugs was also a strong point for Kerry. He kind of painted Bush into a corner on that one.
Kerry was STRUGGLING with the Health Care question. It seemed like he was either channeling GWB or he was making up his answer on the spot.
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Not an effective argument if no one understands what you are talking about.
He just meant that when Bush says Kerry is going to affect hundreds of thousands of small businesses with his glorious (;)) tax plan, Bush is including such small businesses as George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. It\'s a bogus statement on Bush\'s behalf.
Overall, I thought W. did better this time around. Fundamentally, I know I still have some major problems with him, but after the debate I just felt like we were in good hands for some reason.
Point for point, though, Kerry is still on the ball. The only thing that stung was when Bush pointed out the billions Kerry\'d save by rolling back tax cuts to the rich and the trillions he\'d spend to fulfill his promises.
That left a bitter taste in my mouth and Kerry didn\'t defend it at all except to say he\'d also stop corporate giveaways.
-Dan
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Originally posted by Eiksirf
Point for point, though, Kerry is still on the ball. The only thing that stung was when Bush pointed out the billions Kerry\'d save by rolling back tax cuts to the rich and the trillions he\'d spend to fulfill his promises.
That left a bitter taste in my mouth and Kerry didn\'t defend it at all except to say he\'d also stop corporate giveaways.
-Dan
if you read between the lines tho both candidates are going to stumble in the area of taxes..hey i like the bush tax cuts and all but i know at some point WE are goiing to have to pay for it....that and bush has already stated that he will spend as much as it takes to defend the country...and he told you that straight up...as far as kerry is concerned it\'s a no -brainer that taxes are definitely goin to be raised in his plan as well..all those idea\'s he has and you think we\'re not gonna get hit?...
bottomline imo..
bush is raisin taxes and pracically doubling the deficit..(iraq/homeland security/tax cuts)
kerry..is raising taxes..(by trying to balance the budget/getting revenue to support his programs/ and also spending money on defense...
i just broke it down loosely in a nutshell...it\'s a lose lose situation as long as iraq is in peril..and as long as we spend huge capital on the war on terror and defending the country...
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I unfortunately missed the debate. I recorded it but tape ran out an hour into it so I didn\'t get it all. I think I\'ll just download it. Any links?
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You didn\'t miss much - pretty even in most respects. The debate didn\'t sway anyone from one side to another IMO.
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I was watching CNN later on that night and they had an Ohio focus group who had just finished watching the debate.
The CNN reporter asked them some questions about the debate and at the end he asked everyone who now has a pretty good idea about who you are voting for to raise their hand. Only 90% of the people raised their hands.
Personally, I am convinced that undecided voters are not undecided at all and just want attention. There is NO way you can be on the fence between these two. NO WAY. They are just TOO different.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
I was watching CNN later on that night and they had an Ohio focus group who had just finished watching the debate.
The CNN reporter asked them some questions about the debate and at the end he asked everyone who now has a pretty good idea about who you are voting for to raise their hand. Only 90% of the people raised their hands.
Personally, I am convinced that undecided voters are not undecided at all and just want attention. There is NO way you can be on the fence between these two. NO WAY. They are just TOO different.
Totally agree.
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Originally posted by Bozco
Why would you point out how the internet polls went when we obviously don\'t care?
I guess I\'m the only one that laughed when Bush talked about the rumor on the "internets"
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You are not the only one. Bush also had a problem with uhm. At times I could picture him as a valley girl.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
I guess I\'m the only one that laughed when Bush talked about the rumor on the "internets"