PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GigaShadow on November 03, 2004, 12:05:22 PM
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Who seriously would pack up and leave based on a presidential election? Especially when another election is less than 4 years away.
Unhappy Democrats Need to Wait to Get Into Canada
By David Ljunggren
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after President Bush won Tuesday\'s election should not pack their bags just yet.
Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year.
"You just can\'t come into Canada and say \'I\'m going to stay here\'. In other words, there has to be an application. There has to be a reason why the person is coming to Canada," said immigration ministry spokeswoman Maria Iadinardi.
There are anywhere from 600,000 to a million Americans living in Canada, a country that leans more to the left than the United States and has traditionally favored the Democrats over the Republicans.
But recent statistics show a gradual decline in U.S. citizens coming to work in Canada, which has a creaking publicly funded healthcare system and relatively high levels of personal taxation.
Government officials, real estate brokers and Democrat activists said that while some Americans might talk about a move to Canada rather than living with a new Bush administration, they did not expect a mass influx.
"It\'s one thing to say \'I\'m leaving for Canada\' and quite another to actually find a job here and wonder about where you\'re going to live and where the children are going to go to school," said one government official.
Roger King of the Toronto-based Democrats Abroad group said he had heard nothing to back up talk of a possible exodus of party members.
"I imagine most committed Democrats will want to stay in the United States and continue being politically active there," he told Reuters.
Americans seeking to immigrate can apply to become permanent citizens of Canada, a process that often takes a year. Becoming a full citizen takes a further three years.
The other main way to move north on a long-term basis is to find a job, which in all cases requires a work permit. This takes from four to six months to come through.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=3CMLRU54INTXICRBAEOCFFA?type=domesticNews&storyID=6704292&pageNumber=1
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Mass emigration from Europe to the new world - 1800-1900.
Mass immigration to Europe from the new world - 2000?
Sorry, we need that extra space to build mosques, we are being overtaken, remember? ;)
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That you are! Isn\'t there a negative birth rate in most of Europe? You all might need some new blood to return home. ;)
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Meh... I wouldn\'t go and move... but things are pretty depressing and demoralizing for the far-left right now, wether you agree with us or not....
Especially with the GOP controlling the House, the Senate, the Presidency, and the Supreme Court....
Sheesh.... :(
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I can see why. If I could get a decent job in Canada, I would probably move also. I personally disagree with every thing Bush stands for and I hate the direction in which this country is going. It\'s all personal opinion, if someone hates the way the country is and wants to move - then so be it.
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I wouldn\'t move to Canada, but I would go up there to smoke a doobie if they legalized it.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/americas/09/04/canada.pot/index.html
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The reason I don\'t think it is a rational choice is:
1. finding a new job
2. lower wages most likely
3. new election in less than 3 years. What is the point of moving in that by the time you get settled it will be an election year.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
I wouldn\'t move to Canada, but I would go up there to smoke a doobie if they legalized it.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/americas/09/04/canada.pot/index.html
Didn\'t they vote on that in Alaska?
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People who think with that sort of mentality are better off in another country. If anything, I don\'t think I\'d miss them liberals. :)
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What is it? Everyone is saying that voters have put in a new mandate towards the government. The problem with this is that no one can agree on what put Bush over the top. So basically the republican party can really do whatever they want with little to no opposition.
It really is a good time to be a Republican politician.
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Don\'t see what your point is. Democrats sometimes win and Republicans sometimes win. It\'s gonna be this way for a long time.
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No the fact that Republicans won so resoundingly. 51% of the popular vote and total control of Congress and the House is leading many republican politicians/pundits to say that the people have put in a new mandate. Meaning the American people have clearly stated that they want the government to do something but no one knows for sure what that something is.
Some people are saying that Bush won because of terrorism. Do the people support the war on terror and want the government to continue on the same path? Some people say that BUsh won the morality vote. Do the people want the government to enforce more morality? And there are still other reasons given for the widespread republican victory.
Basically since there is no clear cut answer the republicans can interprete that mandate as they see fit.
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*diarrhea*
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I suppose one could move down south of the border instesd of north.
I hear there are parts of the border where you don\'t even have to show any papers, much less explain why you are coming down.
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I really don\'t understand why people would move.....90% of the decisions the gorvernment makes won\'t even effect you. My way of life/daily routine has not changed the slightest bit since Bush took over in 2000.
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I\'m scared.
The Republican party will lead this country in a less free anti-nonchristian rule ever.
And to add not only do they have the Senate Bush would more than likely have to appoint new judges to the Supreme court.
They would hold power to every branch of our government.
I don\'t doubt that slowly this country will slowly be heading in a terrible direction. Bye bye roe v wade and any other civil rights that on-the call Christians think are wrong.
We might as well start getting used to carrying a cross around in order for us not to get arrested.
Like I\'ve said before in another thread...
The fathers of this country are crying in their graves.
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I wouldn\'t move but I really don\'t want to see that guy as president.
This country is again going thru a stage of "christianity" Back in the 60\'s it was all about rights and freedom now it\'s about morals and abortion.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I wouldn\'t move but I really don\'t want to see that guy as president.
This country is again going thru a stage of "christianity" Back in the 60\'s it was all about rights and freedom now it\'s about morals and abortion.
One intresting point is that during the eighties with Regan as Prez
his approval rating was lackluster through most of his reign. (I remember him being demonized in the media, in much the same way Bush is now)
Religion and "moral stance" played a large part in the way he did things and there was a very large and looming threat of WWIII with the cold war.
His grand visions for bringing down the Iron Curtain were poo pooed as too far reaching, but in the end he pulled it off and now the man is practically cannonized.
I am not saying that W. can pull off what he is attempting to, nor am I saying that he can not, however, If anyone had suggested Reagan would be as loved and revered 21 years later, at the end of his 1st term, most would not have believed it.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Back in the 60\'s it was all about rights and freedom now it\'s about morals and abortion.
As much as I don\'t want to turn this thread into this direction, I have to say... What is wrong with Bush\'s abortion standpoint? He is for abortion in instances of rape, incest, and when the mother\'s life is in danger... And you don\'t have to have any association with religion to decipher whether or not abortion is something that should be used as a method of birth control. Why gamble with not knowing whether the child is or is not alive?
Back to your post though, I do agree that Bush does use religion in some form in terms of governing the country, however only to a certain extent. Keep in mind he does (probably more than anybody involved in politics) support the death penalty. Death penalty is a big no-no amongst Christians.
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Mystiq... you are being way too melodramatic.
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Are you kidding?
Go to any Christian forum or talk to any Christian person. They know what this election means. The only thing they hope for is to abolish all of those things.
I\'m not being melodramatic, it\'s going to happen.
This country was formed under the impression that there will always be check and balance and now it\'s not going to be that way.
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I don\'t know.
I have a problem with telling women to have a baby. Something just doesn\'t click you know?
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I see where you\'re coming from... if a woman is gonna spread those legs, she has to keep the consequences in mind. Like I said, abortion should never be a form of birth control.
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More than likely a Christian-voter\'s incentive was based upon their religion, I agree with you there.
What I disagree with is your prediction that we\'re going to turn into some zealous theocracy.
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Originally posted by SwifDi
What I disagree with is your prediction that we\'re going to turn into some zealous theocracy.
Agree. You are worried about nothing.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t doubt that slowly this country will slowly be heading in a terrible direction. Bye bye roe v wade and any other civil rights that on-the call Christians think are wrong.
And this country will be a better place without partial birth abortion. Hell, no abortion sounds great to me. And to all the people that say more deaths will come from people getting them illegally. :rolleyes: I like Bush\'s stance on this.
We might as well start getting used to carrying a cross around in order for us not to get arrested.
You\'re a left wing nut. This is coming from someone that isn\'t that religious. Just breath, they aren\'t forcing religion on anyone.
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I don\'t want to derail this topic... eh, maybe I do, but I\'m for a woman\'s right to choose. It\'s not because I think people shouldn\'t have to put up with births due to promiscuous sex or anything like that, but it\'s because we, as a nation, have not taken responsibility for the children born and given up for adoption. What good is giving birth to hundreds of unwanted children? How many people in this forum have actually been morally religious enough to support this "no abortion" stance and yet remain to do nothing about the children without a good home? I just don\'t see the logic behind the double standard on this one...
People would rather pay 70 cents a week to adopt a kid from Africa then to adopt a kid here from America. What kind of whacked out shit is that? And yet there are people who believe having more unwanted children given up for adoption is somehow a good thing?
I just don\'t understand the justification behind that. Someone, please, anyone who believes in taking away a woman\'s right to choose, please explain to me why.
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Heres the thing, IMO, I believe if abortions weren\'t legal, you\'d have less young people having babies, maybe not less having sex just people being more careful in who and what they choose to sleep with. If you think about it, why should someone 24 years old who went out got knocked up not be responsible for that??? Rape and other things are good idea, but just because you made a mistake you\'re going to kill a fetus(notice I didn\'t say baby)???
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Well, most men shoulder women with the responsibility of birth control and the morning after pill in the first place so why shouldn\'t women have the right to choose? Promiscuous sex is going to happen whether people like it or not and it will continue to happen whether abortions are legal or not. Why take away the option at all?
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I really want to be apathetic to the issue, but I just don\'t like the thought of women getting knocked up, aborting the baby, and simply using abortion as a last resort in terms of birth control. It shouldn\'t come down to that.
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It\'s not like women go out to get knocked up just to have an abortion. It should be noted that abortions are not free and there is inherant risks to having them including the loss to ever have children again. That option should be a choice the woman has to make on their own.
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Good points Ryu but you\'ll never get this conservative to think abortion is the right thing to do for a woman who forgot to take the pill.
In my feeble, 1940\'s mind I still think sex should be saved for marriage. Many people still believe this as well and shudder at the thought of millions of moms killing off their children before they have the chance to live.
Again you bring up good points, it just depends which side of the tracks you\'re from. I can see how other people shudder at the thought of having sex with just one person their whole life.
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LOL
I was being overly sarcastic with those comments.
And you\'re truly fooling yourselfs if you think that Bush will be stopped dead on his tracks if he tries to amend the constitution or do something. He will have full support.
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Good points Ryu but you\'ll never get this conservative to think abortion is the right thing to do for a woman who forgot to take the pill.
I\'m not trying to say it\'s a substitute as the pill is still the cheap and easy alternative to an abortion, but I do think having an abortion is a much better alternative to a woman giving birth to an unwanted child and giving it away to a public who is unwilling to shoulder the financial burden we all will have to share.
I am curious of one thing though, do you guys, conservatives, think taking away a woman\'s right to choose and forcing them to undergo an unwanted pregnancy is the best thing for the child or the only suitable punishment for the mother? I\'m starting to think these two things, when it comes to removing the right to choose, are easily confused with one another when it comes to conservatives.
In my feeble, 1940\'s mind I still think sex should be saved for marriage. Many people still believe this as well and shudder at the thought of millions of moms killing off their children before they have the chance to live.
I agree with most of that. I too am someone who believes in sex only after marriage and I don\'t believe in having many sexual partners before settling on one. However, I do think that bringing a child into a world where they are not wanted and\\or needed and throwing them into the system is a lot worse then destroying the fetus. Perhaps if orphans or adopted children were handled a LOT better, I might agree with you, but if given the option in this day and age, giving the woman the right to choose is, in my whole hearted opinion, the humane thing to do.
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Quick fact about Canada or atleast where I live-if you get caught with 13 grams of weed you CAN\'T be arrested. 14 grams is the minimum for possesion.
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Well could you atleast explain me this one Ryu. Why should partial birth abortion be legal?
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Because the kid is better off not being born to a mother who didn\'t want it in the first place.
Agh. This is another issue that makes me think that Americans are a little dumber than Australians. The Liberal/National Coalition government, which is supposedly the Republican equivalent in Australia, supports and upholds a woman\'s right to chose. Why is it even an issue over there? Jesus!
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If the child is unwanted and it will be lost in the system like so many others, why condemn it to that fate? Like I said, if there was a far better system in place where all pregnancys could receive the same care and love as fortunate people such as you or I, then I would agree it wouldn\'t be necessary. However, so few children in the current system given up in that environment are actually afforded that chance.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
What is it? Everyone is saying that voters have put in a new mandate towards the government. The problem with this is that no one can agree on what put Bush over the top. So basically the republican party can really do whatever they want with little to no opposition.
It really is a good time to be a Republican politician.
Worst case senario (the drunk with power one)
Say goodbye too..
- Abortions (even if they are considered legal now, we could be looking at a blanket ban)
- Stem cell research (back to the Dark ages for joooooo)
- Job\'s…well meaningful ones anyway
- Free speech
- Iran :p
- The separation between church and state
- Evolution theory in schools ;)
And say HELLLLLOOOOOOOOO to
- The draft :laughing:
- Patriot act Version 2.0
- The birth and growth of Puritanism (for reference see the aftermath of the English civil war...only without Oliver Cromwell ;) )
- Prayers & the creation theory in schools
- Atheism to be made illegal(sorry i slipped that one in :p)
Now lets all remind ourselves of the definition of this well known phrase.
You have made your bed now lye in it
Definition
This expression is commonly used as a response to people who have been complaining about problems they have brought on themselves.
Best case senario (the building a legacy one)
He has a Ronald Reagan sytle second term.
I.E. he go\'s into the completely opposite direction he took in his first term.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Who seriously would pack up and leave based on a presidential election?
Christ... wake up Giga
Most of the free world outside the US. want the leave the planet for the next 4 years... never mind move to canada.
:laughing:....
Ahhh why am i laughing ?
The whole world is going to hell in a hand cart.... i might as well enjoy the ride :D.
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Hard to find out if you\'re more of drama queen or just pure attention whore.
Whine all you want you know by the end of Bush\'s term none of those worst case scenarios you say will come true.
You just want attention. Yup, pure attention whore.
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aww, don\'t be too hard on him. at least he emphasised that it was THE WORST CASE SCENARIO. no one expects it to come to that, duh. but interesting to contemplate nontheless. :)
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To Avatarr
Thanks bud... i am, glad someone read it right ;).
Yeah like i said its THE WORST CASE SCENARIO.
Unlikely to happen... but if it does... i am out of here ...next stop my underground bunker :D.
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So if America stops aborting children you\'re gonna be in your bunker all the way in Scotland? Is this because there\'ll be even more Americans for you to worry about?
See I met half way, now we\'re both happy. :p
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Well out of all of the points in the WCS (Worst Case Senario)
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The aggressive foreign policy worry\'s me, that is if we are going down the same road as the last few times.
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Originally posted by Ryu
If the child is unwanted and it will be lost in the system like so many others, why condemn it to that fate? Like I said, if there was a far better system in place where all pregnancys could receive the same care and love as fortunate people such as you or I, then I would agree it wouldn\'t be necessary. However, so few children in the current system given up in that environment are actually afforded that chance.
Ryu, are you defending partial birth abortion?
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As someone else said - in 4 years Bush\'s term will end and the world in relevance to you will not have changed. The hysteria you have ranted on about in this forum for the past day was amusing at first - now it is becoming annoying - sarcastic or not.
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It\'s alright bud...
Just get\'n it of me chest.
I will say its nice to see democracy at work (the high voter turn out).As one thing that gets my goat is people who bitch about an admin but didn\'t vote in the election.
At least this way if things go right/ wrong you can all crow about it / gnash your teeth collectively [/u]
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Originally posted by ooseven
I will say its nice to see democracy at work (the high voter turn out).As one thing that gets my goat is people who bitch about an admin but didn\'t vote in the election.
At least this way if things go right/ wrong you can all crow about it / gnash your teeth collectively
Couldn\'t agree more.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
Agh. This is another issue that makes me think that Americans are a little dumber than Australians.
Do you realize you\'re making yourself look stupid by saying that? Say you disagree, but to call us dumber than australians, thats uncalled for.
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Thats nothing Bozco - the Daily Mirror in the UK has the following headline today:
"How can 59,054,087 people be so dumb?"
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that\'s what I also wonder :D
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Thats nothing Bozco - the Daily Mirror in the UK has the following headline today:
"How can 59,054,087 people be so dumb?"
Isn\'t cool that we don\'t give a rat\'s ass who the world wanted as our President. I have to say it\'s a proud day for this country.
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Originally posted by Ace
Isn\'t cool that we don\'t give a rat\'s ass who the world wanted as our President. I have to say it\'s a proud day for this country.
I have to agree. The American people will not submit to world opinion. The more they spout rhetoric like this the more they turn us as citizens off towards their so called "enlightened" ideals.
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I think you should qualify your statement to read:
"HALF the American people will not submit to world opinion. The more they spout rhetoric like this the more they turn HALF OF us as citizens off towards their so called "enlightened" ideals."
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Yea, joining the UN would have been so great for us!!!!!11111
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We\'re already a member of the UN.
Anyway, you were saying something about Americans not being dumber than Australians?....
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Originally posted by Coredweller
We\'re already a member of the UN.
Anyway, you were saying something about Americans not being dumber than Australians?....
ouch! that\'s a body shot right in the gut boz! ;)
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Ryu, are you defending partial birth abortion?
From my understanding, abortions are to be done in the first trimester and anything beyond that is illegal. Is partial-birth something else entirely?
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Partial Birth Abortions are a type of abortion performed in the mid to late second trimester. They are a hot button topic because they are particularly brutal. The BAN, however, goes beyond just partial birth abortions and bans abortions in the second trimester all together. Many people who are pro-choice are upset about this because birth defects can not be detected until the second trimester. So if it is determined that the child has a particularly fatal birth defect they can not be aborted and the mother just has to wait until the fetus dies.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
We\'re already a member of the UN.
Anyway, you were saying something about Americans not being dumber than Australians?....
For god sakes if you didn\'t know what I meant then lord help you. I was speaking on terms with the war in Iraq. Thats been the whole talk with the UN lately, but yea........
I really didn\'t think I had to dumb that one down for even you clips.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Bozco
For god sakes if you didn\'t know what I meant then lord help you. I was speaking on terms with the war in Iraq. Thats been the whole talk with the UN lately, but yea........
I really didn\'t think I had to dumb that one down for even you clips.
:rolleyes:
Plenty of body blows to go around it seems... :laughing:
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Originally posted by Bozco
I really didn\'t think I had to dumb that one down for even you clips.
:rolleyes:
you didn\'t..the way you worded it made it seem like you didn\'t know the u.s. WAS a part of the u.n....it\'s ok to clean it up now..we can\'t know everything all the time right? so don\'t sweat it..nothin to be ashamed of..;)
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Partial Birth Abortions are a type of abortion performed in the mid to late second trimester. They are a hot button topic because they are particularly brutal. The BAN, however, goes beyond just partial birth abortions and bans abortions in the second trimester all together. Many people who are pro-choice are upset about this because birth defects can not be detected until the second trimester. So if it is determined that the child has a particularly fatal birth defect they can not be aborted and the mother just has to wait until the fetus dies.
Hmm, that\'s interesting. Then why not just make it to where if a birth defect is indeed detected, an abortion is a viable option in the second trimester, but for those just looking to abort the kid shouldn\'t have the option? I figured even conservatives would agree with that.
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Originally posted by clips
you didn\'t..the way you worded it made it seem like you didn\'t know the u.s. WAS a part of the u.n....it\'s ok to clean it up now..we can\'t know everything all the time right? so don\'t sweat it..nothin to be ashamed of..;)
Stop winking at me
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Originally posted by Ryu
Hmm, that\'s interesting. Then why not just make it to where if a birth defect is indeed detected, an abortion is a viable option in the second trimester, but for those just looking to abort the kid shouldn\'t have the option? I figured even conservatives would agree with that.
That would be far too complicated for a mind that only perceives black and white. You\'re either completely for it or entirely against it...
-----> :rolleyes:
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Your generalizing it too much, not every conservative republican is against abortion fully, I am for it in cases of rape and others, but do you sit there and kill a litter of dogs or cats just because it doesn\'t have a family to take care of it??? No at least not in many places, so why do that with a soon to be baby???
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Because cats and dogs are stuffed into tiny cages and fed small amounts and cared for very little if no one comes to take care of them and somehow that is considered humane. The only difference between the two is that for the pets, we call it a cage and for the humans we call it an orphanage. Please don\'t try and compare them like that ever again as the similarities between the two are so staggeringly similar that it\'s disgusting.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Your generalizing it too much, not every conservative republican is against abortion fully, I am for it in cases of rape and others, but do you sit there and kill a litter of dogs or cats just because it doesn\'t have a family to take care of it??? No at least not in many places, so why do that with a soon to be baby???
That is why people advocate having pets spayed or neutered. To try and prevent the litter of kittens/puppies without homes. Do you think that is a viable option for humans?
BTW, I HATE the fact that the majority of the people who are against abortion all together are generally the same people against sexual education for young kids in schools and government support for foster homes/care.
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Well if people would keep there dicks in there pants and there pants on, we wouldn\'t be speaking about this, basically what I\'m saying is if you use proper birth control or not have sex you don\'t have to have 5 abortions... And I was making an analogy Ryu don\'t go all melodramatic and say how we shouldn\'t compare the two, chill out.
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The differences are night and day. My pointing out the differences between cages and orphanges and Black Samurai pointing out the spaying and neutering should have made that readily apparent. You can call it melodramatic, but please, the analogy just doesn\'t work out.
As for having sex responsibly, accidents DO happen. It\'s not just people who go around scoring with a thousand partners in their life times, it\'s also for people who have protected sex and something goes wrong, IE, a condom breaks, the girl forgot her birth control, the morning after pill just DOESN\'T work -- these are all possibilities and many people face them everyday. It\'s undeniable instinct for humans to spread ones seed and to do it with many partners. Sure, people like myself, I assume you, and THX are those who are far more restrained, but there is a reason why the divorce rate, even among the most hardcore conservatives, is so high in this nation. You can think it\'s for any type of logistical reason, but most of them come down to plain and simple consented adultery. It\'s a fact worth checking every now and then.
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I understand what your saying, but abortion as a form of birth control is just a little exteme imo, you have your and I have mine. Simple. Sex is a great thing, but just because someone is irresponsible and forgets to use a condom or forgot to take her pill doesn\'t make it right to abort a baby, this isn\'t a video game where you can just delete and start all over.
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See, that\'s just the thing though -- you can just "start over." The technology offered assures you that you can. See, this is why conservatives alwasy bother me when it comes to deeply seeded issues that split the nation in half. On the one hand, many conservatives hold an opinion on certain issues that do make sense to a degree, but they only make sense if you look at it eight months from now and not ten years from now. Sure, making that mother give birth "saves a life" -- though that is debateable as when a fetus actually becomes "alive" is a topic of contention that is, for now anyways, agreed upon to take place in the second trimester, but once that baby is brought into the world, it becomes a responsibility not of the parent just as it should be, but of all of us.
This is a child that suddenly becomes something your tax dollars will have to support until some type of kind soul finally adopts him/her -- IF someone adopts him/her. Then of course if that doesn\'t occur, the child is going to be lost in the system until they\'re eighteen and pushed out into the streets. Will you be willing to pay the cash out of your own pocket to send this kid to college when it becomes time? Most parents can\'t even send their OWN kids to college. But hey, we\'re talking about one child here, what about 1000? What about 10,000? Will you care for them all? I sure as hell won\'t. I doubt you\'ll be going down to orphanages and picking out a kid or two in your life time. Who cares though, right? We supposedly did the "moral" thing at the time -- I\'m sure if this kid gets swallowed up in the system and later becomes a serial rapist or something in the most extreme circumstance, we can always blame doom and the media.
It\'s like I said though, if this type of thing wasn\'t a possibility and the system somehow cared for these children a whole helluva lot better then they do now, abortions would not be necessary. As it is now, with the same people who are against abortion refusing to help the children who are given up for adoption because of that belief, abortion is the humane thing to do.
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So I should worry about my tax dollars??? See that is what I don\'t get is why you would rather abort a life then see tax money go to it. And to the part where they\'d be pushed out to the streets thats not entirely true if you are a child of the state, or ward what ever its called you can basically go to college for free. Or at least most of it is paid.
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It isn\'t just about tax dollars, it\'s about so many other things. Conservatives back family values, conservatives back the family unit, conversatives think that no child should be left behind, but what happens when thousands of little babies are born, when they could\\should have been aborted, no one, not the parents, not liberals, not conservatives -- wishes to shoulder the responsibility. If you don\'t take an active role now to take care of America\'s youth that is being left behind, then what\'s to say that you will take an active role if abortion is made illegal? Who\'s to teach these unwanted/unintended kids the values conservatives so rightfully uphold on a daily basis? You read my entire post and pulled out tax dollars, but so far, you failed to actually point out how taking away the option somehow has more benefits to the child then an abortion.
I\'m sure this screwed over kid will feel so happy your morals are safe and sound while they struggle for the same chances you were priviledged to receive without worry and without doubt.
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No child left behind is SO bad for our education system. A bit off topic but I saw you mention it so I decided to throw that out there.
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^^^ I agree with BS on that one, but I\'m just saying as a form of birth control it just seems stupid to me. I do agree that all these children have it pretty tough and they probably shouldn\'t have been born, so I agree there, but as a form of birth control, and some of these women having 3-5 of them and then getting pregnant again is what makes me angry. If you do it and it teaches you a lesson to not run around and get knocked up every 3-5 months then its a good thing but rarely does that probably happen.
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I have a problem with telling women to have a baby. Something just doesn\'t click you know?
But telling that same woman that she has the right to commit murder without suffering any consiquences does click in your mind?
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Originally posted by cloud345
But telling that same woman that she has the right to commit murder without suffering any consiquences does click in your mind?
it\'s her body..nobody has a right to tell them what to do with it...keep in mind it\'s not healthy for a woman to have an abortion,..if she wants to have 40-60..she\'s only hurting herself in the long run..and there\'s always that possibility of death..no-matter how small the percentage is it\'s there...
hell what do you say to that pregnant woman that wants to keep they\'re baby, but they\'re smokin or doin drugs? surely the unborn is being affected in some manner,..yet do you propose that gov\'t take action against that individual?
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I just can\'t agree with your whole mindset on it Ryu. You say how the adoption process and everything is so bad. Well like mjps said, it shouldn\'t be a form of birth control. Then maybe instead of all these babies going into terrible lives people will think and not risk it in the first place if they aren\'t ready.
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Bozco, I doubt many people, if any have sex and say "Oh well, if i get pregnant ill just get an expensive abortion, that will make me feel guilty for the rest of my life!"
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But it\'s always in the back of their head.
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I just can\'t agree with your whole mindset on it Ryu. You say how the adoption process and everything is so bad. Well like mjps said, it shouldn\'t be a form of birth control. Then maybe instead of all these babies going into terrible lives people will think and not risk it in the first place if they aren\'t ready.
See, now you\'re just placing blame on the immediate problem without thinking about the longterm consequences. Yes, people will wise up, but how many kids will be born before they do? You think that\'s perfectly fine so long as the people giving birth "learn their lesson"? I can\'t even fathom how backwards that is. Regardless, people will NOT stop having sex and new kids will be born and put into the system. Mothers will give birth, the kids will be given up for adoption, and the cycle will just repeat itself hundreds of times over. It just doesn\'t make any sense.
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I can\'t fathom how it somehow got to the point of abortion being a way to duck out of everything.
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Im just saying that if someone murders a pregnant woman and it\'s considered double murder, why is it not considered murder when the mother aborts the baby?
As for the smoking or doing drugs part, the woman who wants the baby knows she could be inflicting harm on the baby, but she isn\'t doing it purpously. The government can;t do anything for a woman accidently making a child born with defects. An animal could knock over a woman thats pregnant but theyre not going to put the kill the animal for doing that.
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How did a conversation on democrats going to Canada turn into abortion?
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Well its fine that to have sex, so be it, the thing is using some sort of contraceptive is a must, I guarantee you almost 99% of the reasons someone gets pregnant unexpectedly they weren\'t using a form of birth control. Now if you were and you did everything to prevent it then I could see having an abortion. But to sit here and tell me and others that we don\'t look at long term effects of things, well abortions being legal leaves it up to people to go out and freely stick there wangs and have sex without contraceptive thinking hey shit, thats right abortions legal.
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Triple Post ^^^ Yea me and Ryu and boz are having a nice thread about it in the mandate thread, why not merge the threads.
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Why not keep it on topic? I will merge it this time...
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The thread had ran its course, we just opened it to another avenue.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
No child left behind is SO bad for our education system. A bit off topic but I saw you mention it so I decided to throw that out there.
I agree. It\'s pure BS and it needs to be reworked. It\'s nothing but more pressure for teacher and students.
I took around 13 test my junior year just to prove to those people that I can think. Other schools failed those test miserably and like our principal told us: "all they do is tell us to do better and bitch about it.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I took around 13 test my junior year just to prove to those people that I can think.
I guess that makes you living proof that No Child Left Behind works.
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OMFG
Can\'t you just go one damn day without being an ass?
It doesn\'t work. I passed those test with flying colors and it\'s sad when you find out that your school is a minority compared to the majority of the schools who don\'t have a very high passing rate. Have they improved at all? Nope. What is being done? Nothing.
Right now my school is more focused on turning in to a military school.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
It doesn\'t work. I passed those test with flying colors...
You just contradicted yourself. Are you sure you passed those tests?
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Thats wonderful giga.
Einstein couldnt tie his shoes and i dont see people making that into an issue.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Thats wonderful giga.
Einstein couldnt tie his shoes and i dont see people making that into an issue.
That time of month Nicon? ;)
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Did you know when Eistein was little people thought he may have been retarded because he could not speak until he was three?
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Well if you could find out a baby would be born with defects would you allow abortion??? This questioned is geared towards abortion sympathists
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
That time of month Nicon? ;)
No. Just a stressful day accompanied by a stupid comment w/o the indication of playfulness. SO i just assumed you were being serious because you sometimes like to make stupid points. :p
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Well if you could find out a baby would be born with defects would you allow abortion??? This questioned is geared towards abortion sympathists
Abortion sympathists? Do you mean like people who are against abortion or what? I always considered babies with birth defects to be an excellent pro argument for abortion.
Oh, and the seeds of descension are beginning. First we have to argue about having the right to choose, now we have to argue about having any choice at all. Don\'t believe me?
Bam. Evengelicals 1. Sane people 0. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&e=2&u=/usatoday/20041109/ts_usatoday/druggistsrefusetogiveoutpill)
I hope that pharmacist is willing to pay child support...
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^^^That\'s crazy. I wonder if the pharmacist is against ALL contraceptives or just birth control pills..