PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GigaShadow on November 24, 2004, 04:44:56 PM
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Declaration of Independence Banned at Calif School
Wed Nov 24, 2004 04:12 PM ET
By Dan Whitcomb
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.
Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.
"It\'s a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams\' attorney, Terry Thompson.
"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."
Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.
Phyllis Vogel, assistant superintendent for Cupertino Unified School District, said the lawsuit had been forwarded to a staff attorney. She declined to comment further.
Williams asserts in the lawsuit that since May he has been required to submit all of his lesson plans and supplemental handouts to Vidmar for approval, and that the principal will not permit him to use any that contain references to God or Christianity.
Among the materials she has rejected, according to Williams, are excerpts from the Declaration of Independence, George Washington\'s journal, John Adams\' diary, Samuel Adams\' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn\'s "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."
"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that\'s what the founders wrote," said Thompson, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which advocates for religious freedom. "The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."
In June, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case of a California atheist who wanted the words "under God" struck from the Pledge of Allegiance as recited by school children. The appeals court in California had found that the phrase amounted to a violation of church and state separation.
Does this surprise anyone that this would come out of California... this is a symptom of the ideaology being taught in US schools and universities today.
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6911883
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Thank God California is no longer part of the US. They are a complete joke.
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When is that Earthquake supposed to hit?
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California is retarded.
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Yes they are freaking retarded the foundation of our very country\'s existence is being barred from the minds of our kids these days, whats the country coming too, oops didn\'t mean to single out the country I meant Cali.
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Uhh... from what it looks like, they are merely banning handing out the document to students, not banning its meaning or purpose. The DoI is in every history\\government textbook I\'ve ever read and this year I read the constitution backwards and forwards and years before that I read the DoI and memorized it (which I\'m sure many of you criticizing the California school system for somehow not being part of America have NEVER done). Don\'t hate on us (Californians) for wanting to progress the nation into a level far beyond that of the thinking of forty or fifty years ago.
Leaving religion behind and not allowing it to influence our entire lives or our political system is but the first necessary step into a larger world. The principles behind the constitution and the DoI still remain the same whether God is present in it or not. It\'s time America joined the rest of the world (middile east aside) in rising above using God or religion as a publically motivating factor in our lives. Privately, believe whatever you want, but publically, keep it out of our faces. I don\'t get why that\'s such a hard thing for so many to do.
Don\'t worry though, our stem cell research will be spread around to any and all God fearing people from any state who want it or need it to survive -- for a price. Oh, and be careful because the procedure may be handled by an icky gay man! *Gasp* Run for the hills! They\'re icky! I love being judgmental and pretentious to so many who willingly are pretentious and judge others . :)
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Originally posted by videoholic
Thank God California is no longer part of the US. They are a complete joke.
Arn\'t they a part of Canada now ?
and when did they leave Geee Wuuu bush\'s Republic of JESUSLAND (formerly known as the USA :p) agian ?
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No, they joined forces with Baja Mexico.
Ryu, defending the fact that a teacher can\'t pass out the Decleration of Independence in class is useless. THere is no justification.
This is why Americans know so freaking little about European history as well. Everything in history is based on religion in some way.
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Originally posted by Ryu
Leaving religion behind and not allowing it to influence our entire lives or our political system is but the first necessary step into a larger world. The principles behind the constitution and the DoI still remain the same whether God is present in it or not.
It\'s not like they\'re speaking about the religions principles, it\'s just the word god in the text. I really can\'t believe anybody is defending this but then again you are out in Cali.
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Maybe they should censor out he \'o\', make it G-d. I mean, the kids can\'t tell the difference, can they?
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Originally posted by Titan
California is retarded.
Yet if it was its own country its economy would be 1 of the top ten.
Interesting *strokes chin hair*
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Yet if it was its own country its economy would be 1 of the top ten.
Interesting *strokes chin hair*
That\'s why we\'d bomb Hollywood ;)
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He should be able to pass out any historical documents that are relevant to the states required teaching.
That being said, the pledge should be banned from all public schools. Either that or there should be more then one read a day, one for god, one for other faiths, and one for atheists.
Or the people in charge can stop being stupid and just take the 2 words out....
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Hamp, \'under God\' wasn\'t in the original Pledge of Allegience. It was added during the Cold War after WW2.
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at least we have arnold....
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
He should be able to pass out any historical documents that are relevant to the states required teaching.
That being said, the pledge should be banned from all public schools. Either that or there should be more then one read a day, one for god, one for other faiths, and one for atheists.
Or the people in charge can stop being stupid and just take the 2 words out....
More than one read a day? The hell? One for athiests? What are you talking about?
Im not all about putting religious thoughts into kids heads but something for every religion? That will NEVER happen.
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I\'m just pointing out that the way things run right now is unfair.
I don\'t expect any of what I suggested to happen anytime soon, not with the religious influence over those in charge at the moment.
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What is unfair is that the culture that was established by our Founding Father\'s is constantly under attack from the lunatic left (to clarify: the extreme left) who are intent on setting up the US as another Socialist welfare state that takes care of everyone.
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Socialism doesnt have shit to do with secularism, but thanks for trying.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What is unfair is that the culture that was established by our Founding Father\'s is constantly under attack from the lunatic left (to clarify: the extreme left) who are intent on setting up the US as another Socialist welfare state that takes care of everyone.
As opposed to the retarded right (to clarify: the extreme right) who want the exact same thing that our founding father\'s fought against. You know that whole totalitarian, monotheistic, church state, that everyone loved.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Socialism doesnt have shit to do with secularism, but thanks for trying.
Really it doesn\'t? I think the two go hand in hand. Western Europe is secular and socialist as opposed to America being Judeo Christian and capitalist.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Really it doesn\'t? I think the two go hand in hand. Western Europe is secular and socialist as opposed to America being Judeo Christian and capitalist.
1) The two don\'t go hand in hand. If they did there would not be exceptions to the rule. (Just like Republican and Conservative may usually mean the same people they are not mutually exclusive)
2) Having some socialist policies/programs does not make a government socialist. Canada has universal health care but remains very capitalist just like MOST of western Europe. As a matter of fact, welfare is a socialist program. Is the United States socialist now?
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Originally posted by Titan
Hamp, \'under God\' wasn\'t in the original Pledge of Allegience. It was added during the Cold War after WW2.
really? That\'s like going back in time.
anyway, go Ruy and BS! ;)
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
2) Having some socialist policies/programs does not make a government socialist. Canada has universal health care but remains very capitalist just like MOST of western Europe. As a matter of fact, welfare is a socialist program. Is the United States socialist now?
You couldn\'t be more completely and utterly wrong. There are those in this country who want to see our government mirror those of Western Europe and lose all of our self determination on the way to becoming part of a larger world government. Those in this country that wish this along with those in Western European who wish to force this upon us through the use of the UN, the EU, international treaties like the Kyoto Protocals and with international institutions such as the International Court are angry about our resistance to having our soveriegnty taken over by Europe or some other world body like the UN. America is not about "universal health care" and big government like you point out with your Canadian example. America is unique in that it relies more on small government and letting people have choices.
The reason there are such anti American attitudes in Europe and among pseudo intellectuals here isn\'t due to the Iraqi War, but rather our resistance to these socialist and secular influences. Peace activists couldn\'t care less about Iraq, but are more angry over our refusal to join them on their misguided path to creating utopia. The United States supports small government - socialist Europe does not. I, like most Americans do not subscribe to this and wish not to adopt European "values".
Lastly, this country was founded by religious men and American society is based on Christianity - regardless of how you and others try and interpret the Constitution. We do have freedom of religion, NOT freedom from religion. The main purpose of this article shows the idiotic and ignorant agenda that these leftist pseudo intellectuals are trying to force on our children.
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Is it me or was it not too long ago that you (giga) said that our laws/constitution was not derrived from the bible?
Meh.
I believe that the U.S. is partially in the wrong for not adopting somethings. I dont feel like racking my brain over it or looking it up. But there are some "Utopian" as you might call them, acts that would definately benefit our living conditions. Its just that businessmen, some consumers etc cant see but more than 3 feet in front of their faces. Due to the uncertainties and all of that nobody is willing to take risks and abondon the set standard or economics.
If this makes any sense - Too early to formulate my thoughts.
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America is not about "universal health care" and big government like you point out with your Canadian example. America is unique in that it relies more on small government and letting people have choices.
What a load of crap. You would deny people healthcare, you would deny people basic human necessities of a society so YOU, someone who is well above the middle class line, can have your choices? Please. Someone below the poverty line doesn\'t have chioices. They don\'t have options. 50% of the country is without healthcare and you think that\'s by CHOICE? Man that\'s hilarious.
The reason there are such anti American attitudes in Europe and among pseudo intellectuals here isn\'t due to the Iraqi War, but rather our resistance to these socialist and secular influences. Peace activists couldn\'t care less about Iraq, but are more angry over our refusal to join them on their misguided path to creating utopia.
This is the first time I\'ve ever seen someone suggest that creating a country where everyone would be happy was a bad idea. I can\'t believe I\'m reading this. More then likely, Giga, you have health care. Your family is the picture of the American dream. Step on the backs of everyone else so you can reach the top. Never have you spent time below the poverty line. Never have you spent time on welfare. Never have you had to collect food stamps or go to a church to get handouts. Or been without healthcare and hoping you never got sick. Or worked for an employer who provided NONE of that because of some loophole guaranteed to them in some wonky contract. I wouldn\'t doubt if you were against unions at this rate since they promote equality and fair employment between employees.
I suppose that\'s what America is all about though -- everyone fends for themselves. I suppose I would agree with you if that actual system worked out for everyone, but it doesn\'t. It never has and it never will. Universal health care is something that every nation should have and I can\'t fathom why anyone would disagree with that. Don\'t give me this hogwash that it would somehow make America more socialist, just tell me your real reasons behind wanting to deny people healthcare. Why do you think that\'s a good thing?
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I did say that our laws were not derrived from the bible, but that does not mean that our founding fathers were not religious and that this country was not founded on the principles of the Christian faith. As I said before: Freedom of religion, not freedom from relgion. Our legal system and the 10 Commandments were another thread Nicon. What the principle of that school in California is doing is absolutely wrong. It is one step toward revisionist history and socialism - regardless of what some you think - socialism and secularism are linked together.
Name some "utopian idea" that would benefit our living conditions without destroying our economy and taking away a citizens right to choose or making it more difficult for any given citizen to get said service. Socialism in any form will not work in this country - this is something quite a few of you don\'t understand. We are not a country with a small population like some other countries that give free handouts.
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Name some "utopian idea" that would benefit our living conditions without destroying our economy and taking away a citizens right to choose or making it more difficult for any given citizen to get said service.
Government provided healthcare. I wouldn\'t handle it like Europe handles it though. I would instead raise taxes for people by a bit and make all hospital positions government jobs where salaries provided to the employees were kept at a set limit based on position much like that of the FBI. The government can contract out to pharmacuetical companies for new technologies much like they do for the military for all new equipment. However, more then likely, with the extra tax spread across the entire US population, there\'s bound to be a surplus at the end of the year for various reasons such as people simply not going or needing to use the hospital for any reason but still being taxed anyways. This surplus is where the fun begins.
With the surplus, people can vote annually on what to do with that surplus. So for example, every ballot will come with health care initiatives such as some new technology or medication prospects or new hospitals/more of them or funding for some type of better equipment for hospitals and we, as a people, get to vote on what we think that surplus should go towards. That way, every year, we get to choose how we want our nationally paid for health care plan can expand and watch our extra taxes at work for our benefit. That\'s just my opinion though.
Hmm, this could be an interesting thread topic...
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Who is going to pay for national healthcare? We can\'t afford it because of our population. Not to mention how many idiots would exploit and abuse the system. Secondly, I don\'t want to wait 6 months to see a doctor - national health care = crappy service and long waits.
If you make hospital positions goverment jobs - no one will go to medical school or go to college to become a nurse. With the cost of getting an education in any medical field working for the government wouldn\'t be worth it. This whole government controlled health care is socialism.
You are correct about America is about fending for yourself and making your own way. We are not a country that gives free handouts - how hard is that to understand? There is not excuse to not have healthcare if you are employed. I pay $452 a month just for wife and child and it sucks, but I pay the price to have it. Secondly, if you have something really wrong with you - no hospital in the country can deny you treatment whether you can afford it or not.
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Who is going to pay for national healthcare? We can\'t afford it because of our population. Not to mention how many idiots would exploit and abuse the system. Secondly, I don\'t want to wait 6 months to see a doctor - national health care = crappy service and long waits.
You don\'t know that. In fact, if all private practices were folded into the government umbrella, there\'d be plenty of doctors at large hospitals to handle the patient volume. There\'s lots of details to the system that I propose, but you assume these huge problems would suddenly crop up once it goes to government funded simply because you are applying them to the current sh*t system when that\'s not the case at all.
If you make hospital positions goverment jobs - no one will go to medical school or go to college to become a nurse. With the cost of getting an education in any medical field working for the government wouldn\'t be worth it.
Wrong. With my system, doctor\'s educations would be government funded and open to anyone who can participate. The acceptance policy would be quite a bit more strict though at the medical schools for that type of funding, but it would all fall under the governments umbrella just like military or FBI training.
We are not a country that gives free handouts - how hard is that to understand?
Who said it was free? I said it\'d be handled in taxes.
There is not excuse to not have healthcare if you are employed.
WRONG AGAIN! First of all, people are not given health care for a NUMBER of reasons by employers in many different feilds. Secondly, if you work 3 jobs and each is part time, you know how much healthcare you are given? 0. None. No one covers part times workers for health care no matter how many jobs you work to make a living. I don\'t know what country you come from, but 50% of Americans do NOT have healthcare and more then half of those people ARE working.
I pay $452 a month just for wife and child and it sucks, but I pay the price to have it. Secondly, if you have something really wrong with you - no hospital in the country can deny you treatment whether you can afford it or not.
Then that money you pay, which would be less in the long term, would be folded into a surplus at the end of the month to be totaled at the end of the year to go towards some new program that you yourself can vote on. That way your money isn\'t just mystically dissapearing, but it\'s being put towards something that could benefit you some day if you need it.
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Originally posted by Ryu
You don\'t know that. In fact, if all private practices were folded into the government umbrella, there\'d be plenty of doctors at large hospitals to handle the patient volume. There\'s lots of details to the system that I propose, but you assume these huge problems would suddenly crop up once it goes to government funded simply because you are applying them to the current sh*t system when that\'s not the case at all.
Wrong. With my system, doctor\'s educations would be government funded and open to anyone who can participate. The acceptance policy would be quite a bit more strict though at the medical schools for that type of funding, but it would all fall under the governments umbrella just like military or FBI training.
Who said it was free? I said it\'d be handled in taxes.
WRONG AGAIN! First of all, people are not given health care for a NUMBER of reasons by employers in many different feilds. Secondly, if you work 3 jobs and each is part time, you know how much healthcare you are given? 0. None. No one covers part times workers for health care no matter how many jobs you work to make a living. I don\'t know what country you come from, but 50% of Americans do NOT have healthcare and more then half of those people ARE working.
Then that money you pay, which would be less in the long term, would be folded into a surplus at the end of the month to be totaled at the end of the year to go towards some new program that you yourself can vote on. That way your money isn\'t just mystically dissapearing, but it\'s being put towards something that could benefit you some day if you need it.
Look at Canada\'s health care and then make it ten times worse if you apply national health care to the US. Canada doesn\'t have nearly the population we do and most Canadians will tell you it sucks.
You rid the US of private practices you would have a revolt on your hands... see this is what you don\'t get Ryu... we are not a socialist country and what you are proposing is ridiculous. Private practices under goverment control? :laughing: Never will happen. If you want that move to Canada and enjoy their crappy healthcare.
Taxes would take care of national health insurance??? First I don\'t think its possible to raise enough by taxes alone. Secondly, I am sorry, but I don\'t want to pay high taxes for some "part time" lazy ass who won\'t go find a real job and get his own insurance. The government will also fund MD\'s education? This all reaks of socialism and this is exactly what this country doesn\'t need. If you don\'t like the form of government move elsewhere - we live in a capitalist country that rewards work. If you want to have a crappy job, be taxed to death and have the government control certain professions and industries then this isn\'t the country for you. In simple terms I don\'t want the government controlling my healthcare.
The last thing you suggest - private health care "savings plans"... that is what Bush has been suggesting for some time.
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GIga, you took it right from me. Just look at Canada and see how well putting the government in charge of health care works. That country is all Fu*ked up.
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giga: why the strong hate for some solidarity?
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What do you mean Bjorn?
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I know someone who goes to school and works three part-time jobs.
I wouldn\'t call her a lazy ass Giga.
For a while I worked two jobs and didn\'t get any healthcare. I would get up for work at 7 or so and usually get home around 12:30, 1am. Saying I was a lazy ass is insulting.
What if there was a government-funded health care option that stood as an alternative to private practice?
-Dan
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I did say that our laws were not derrived from the bible, but that does not mean that our founding fathers were not religious and that this country was not founded on the principles of the Christian faith. As I said before: Freedom of religion, not freedom from relgion.
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom NOT to be religious, Then the government should not openly choose Religion or Not-Religion.
Our laws are based on general religious morals, taken from mostly christian ideas. Althought they were not taken from the bible, religion just has had such a large influence on man kind throughout history, the morals of religion have become basically everyones morals and that\'s why they are written into law.
And Jefferson, Adams, Franklin all openly said they doubted the christian faith.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Freedom of religion also includes the freedom NOT to be religious, Then the government should not openly choose Religion or Not-Religion.
Our laws are based on general religious morals, taken from mostly christian ideas. Althought they were not taken from the bible, religion just has had such a large influence on man kind throughout history, the morals of religion have become basically everyones morals and that\'s why they are written into law.
And Jefferson, Adams, Franklin all openly said they doubted the christian faith.
What morals of religion is our government forcing on us? Also post links to where Jefferson, Adams and Franklin openly doubted Christianity.
The only thing Jefferson opposed was the corruption of Christianity. Something I also oppose - which is why I don\'t attend church and really don\'t subscribe to organized religion. However, Jefferson did not oppose the precepts of Jesus and more importantly Jefferson considered himself a Christian.
Franklin was a Deist, but later in his life reverted back to Christianity.
When you study the documents of the Revolutionary period, a precise picture comes into focus. Here it is:
Virtually all those involved in the founding enterprise were God-fearing men in the Christian sense; most were Calvinistic Protestants.
The Founders were deeply influenced by a biblical view of man and government. With a sober understanding of the fallenness of man, they devised a system of limited authority and checks and balances.
The Founders understood that fear of God, moral leadership, and a righteous citizenry were necessary for their great experiment to succeed.
Therefore, they structured a political climate that was encouraging to Christianity and accommodating to religion, rather than hostile to it.
Protestant Christianity was the prevailing religious view for the first 150 years of our history.
However...
The Fathers sought to set up a just society, not a Christian theocracy.
They specifically prohibited the establishment of Christianity--or any other faith--as the religion of our nation.
What is the most disturbing is the fact that today, the mere mention of the word God is treated like bad word here in the US. This is not what our founding fathers intended. How can one such as myself be not religous in the least have no problem with Christianity or God? Easily - it is called tolerance and respect for someone who has faith. As long as I am not forced to worship at the governments direction I don\'t see what the problem is.
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What is the most disturbing is the fact that today, the mere mention of the word God is treated like bad word here in the US.
No. What\'s most disturbing is that people are willing to follow a book instead of their own common sense. I think that\'s what bothers me the most about all of this and the utter stubborness from people who take that stance making themselves unwilling to try and see things from the other side of the fence.
How can one such as myself be not religous in the least have no problem with Christianity or God? Easily - it is called tolerance and respect for someone who has faith.
I do this all the time as well and it\'s not difficult in the slightest, but that\'s not the problem most people have with religious sects. Everytime groups of people want to progress forward with lifstyle changes and new ways of doing things or new technologies, there\'s always a bible thumper proclaiming we\'re all going to hell or we\'re all bringing about armageddon. I don\'t tolerate that kind of crap. I don\'t have tolerance for people at my school passing out fliers claiming I should back Bush because God is on his side. I don\'t like that abortion clinics are blown apart or firebombed because people think the woman\'s right to choose is the wrong thing to have. None of my friends who are religious do these things, but there are plenty of other extremists out there who do. That\'s what makes tolerance for all religious worshippers difficult.
I know someone who goes to school and works three part-time jobs.
I wouldn\'t call her a lazy ass Giga.
For a while I worked two jobs and didn\'t get any healthcare. I would get up for work at 7 or so and usually get home around 12:30, 1am. Saying I was a lazy ass is insulting.
What if there was a government-funded health care option that stood as an alternative to private practice?
-Dan
Yup. My mom did the same thing for me and my brother when we were much younger. I found Giga\'s post in reference to that equally insulting and moronic.
You rid the US of private practices you would have a revolt on your hands... see this is what you don\'t get Ryu... we are not a socialist country and what you are proposing is ridiculous. Private practices under goverment control? Never will happen. If you want that move to Canada and enjoy their crappy healthcare.
I\'m saying that we could implement a system that\'s different, I said it many times, and yet you keep naming examples of countries with smaller populations where it doesn\'t work all too well, but know this -- with every example you give, each country is considered to be a FAR better place to live then the US. Why do you think that is? Why is the best places to live in the world in Europe and not in the US? If our system was so great and wonderful, you\'d think people would be flocking to us, but all we get are the people who don\'t have a choice one way or the other.
And lastly, this whole "you don\'t like it, get out" stance is total bullshit on your part, Giga. This is why so MANY people hate Bush because he acts in that same pig headed moronic little bubble that our way is the best way no matter how much trouble and crap it causes. It\'s the unwillingness to even consider the prospect of something better or something different that makes everything so screwed up in this world. The unwillingness to accept that your way of thinking could be wrong or that it can\'t be changed. I\'m not going to talk about my ideas anymore because I present them and you just call it socialist and that\'s that. You don\'t even consider if it could work, you don\'t even care. It\'s your way or the high way so screw it. If that\'s the kind of tolerance you were talking about in your post up there, then I don\'t want any part of it.
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If it helps, I find all Giga\'s post moronic and insulting.
;)
I tend to agree with Ryu, I think a big problem with this country is the fact it doesn\'t want to change at all. It doesn\'t want to look at other countries and take hints. Instead, we are stuck in our own rut. I am not saying Canada\'s healthcare is great, but there is better options than our current one. The same applies with the nonsense "war on drugs". I don\'t do drugs and never have really, but I see no reason for the goverment to tell people that they can\'t smoke pot. I could keep goin\', but nevermind.
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As quirky as California may be sometimes...
... they do grow some quality female ass there.
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Ryu,
First you say follow common sense instead of a book... gee not a bit condecending are we? After all you are smarter than someone who does have faith aren\'t you? :rolleyes: How many abortion clinics are blown up yearly? I don\'t recall hearing about one this past year. Where are all these extremists you are referring to?
Government funded healthcare... who is going to pay? Certainly not Mr. Minimum Wage. Those of you who advocate "National Healthcare" have no idea of the cost involved to insure everyone. It will be professionals like myself who will carry the load. I find it insulting that you would have no problem with the middle class paying the brunt of this for some slacker who lives at home in his mother\'s basement or some drugged out crack head who doesn\'t want to work or only work part time.
As for people flocking here... the last time I checked we have people from Central and South America streaming across our borders and we also have a high influx of other immigrants from around the world. Canada has better living conditions than the US? I know many Canadians that live here that would strongly disagree with you. Since when was Europe the best place to live? If it all butterflies and rainbows over there why isn\'t there a mass exodus from the US? Why is Europe\'s population on a whole shrinking if everything is so much better over there?
Your ideas are utopian and unfortunately unrealistic for the United States. I deal with facts not fantasy. Sure I would love to have free health care for everyone, but the sad fact is we as a country can not afford it. I was also speaking metaphorically about "move to Canada". It was meant as a "see how their government works and you will be begging to come back here..."
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I have a question, why is it that the United States has one of the highest crime rates in the world? I\'ve always wondered that and have never been able to find an answer. Is it something in the water?
Also, Giga, here\'s a report for 2004 on best places to live. U.S. is eighth. >>>Link<<< (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5456853/site/newsweek)
Here\'s the best part...
The beauty of globalization is that every corner of the world can learn from the others. A little less ideology, and a little more openness to the ideas adopted by the Nordic states, would do us all a world of good.
The U.S. is arrogant, I doubt they pay any mind to these kinds of statistics and unfortunately we all have to pay for it. Yes, I know there are worse places to live, what interest me are the better.
As for the rest of this thread. I don\'t get why the DOI was banned from a school, it\'s a piece of history in its entirety. meh, as long as religion isn\'t taught in school I\'m cool with it.
First you say follow common sense instead of a book... gee not a bit condecending are we? After all you are smarter than someone who does have faith aren\'t you? How many abortion clinics are blown up yearly? I don\'t recall hearing about one this past year. Where are all these extremists you are referring to?
You\'d be silly not to acknowledge the fact that there are religious extremists, they range anywhere from a person telling you you\'re going to hell because [insert anything here] to the people commiting acts in the name of [insert any god here].
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Ryu is king.
Where are all of the religious extremist?
In the Government. The Bush Admin. isn\'t trying to slap their "Christian values" in our face? BULLSHIT
C\'mon Bush is getting pulled by the extreme left so hard his arm might come off. Who do you think got all of the support from those evangelist who made their people vote for him? Bush right now is there because his "Christian" values rose him above the sinful pro-abortion candidate.
Why is he sinful? Go to any church, go to any religious forums, ask any religious person why they aren\'t voting for Kerry and you would be surprised how many people can\'t look past freedom of choice.
The extreme right has all the cards now. You might like to think that the Government is full of wise and respectful men right now but you\'re lying to yourself if you think that these religious activist aren\'t taking Bush\'s win as a monument for Christianity. Ask any religious Christian right now. Bush is a symbol for the overturning of Roe vs. Wade, the ban on homosexual marriage and the pushing of the "creation" bullshit on our textbooks. And Bush has to keep his conservative base happy and I don\'t doubt he will.
Schools are FINE. Just because the founding fathers used Christian morals in order to keep virtue on our society doesn\'t make this country founded by Christianity. I really don\'t see the bitching about the school system.
Is some of it crap?
Hell yeah. If you aren\'t a good achieving school then say bye bye to funds. B/c under No Child Left Behind you have to continously take stupid test in order to prove that you deserve an education.
What is so awful about the school system compared to back in the day Giga?
That kids of illegal immigrants are getting an education out of your tax money!!!???
I\'ve never had health insurance other than Medicaid. My dad has worked at many places but never had enough to pay 452 dollars a month for health insurance. In fact my neighbors didn\'t either and they were legal!
Welcome to America. The land that used to be equality. The land that used to have opportunities without having some semi-racist moron bitching about it. The land that everybody once shared. The land that recently is becoming more and more full of materialistic, arrogant "Americans" who would rather step on the hand of the poor than put a dollar in it.
Hopefully this new generation would be smarter than that.
Has anybody seen the movie "A day without a mexican"?
Giga there is this character in the movie(no he isn\'t racist) who reminds me of you. Or at least thinks like you. And there was a scene where this migrant worker shoots in the direction of his kid in order to shoot a rattle snake. The dude freaks out and runs out and starts to whine that he could of shot his kid. The kid\'s grandpa tell the kid to say thanks to the migrant worker and the kid responds "gracias" The father of the kid said "ohh now you\'re speaking spanish now?" and the grandpa asked the dude "can\'t you say "gracias" and the guy responded
"No but I can say "thank you""
Sadly I know Giga isn\'t the only one who feels this way.
Sadly.
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Originally posted by Ginko
I have a question, why is it that the United States has one of the highest crime rates in the world? I\'ve always wondered that and have never been able to find an answer. Is it something in the water?
The U.S. is arrogant, I doubt they pay any mind to these kinds of statistics and unfortunately we all have to pay for it. Yes, I know there are worse places to live, what interest me are the better.
What do all of those countries have in common Ginko? They are small with small populations. This discussion has taken place before on this board regarding Sweden and its decades long control of its population in order to achieve a balance so that the government could subsidide "welfare".
Globalization? A vast majority in the US oppose it. Why do you think we didn\'t sign the Kyoto Protocals? Join the International Court? Because we wanted to keep our soveriegnty.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Ryu is king.
Where are all of the religious extremist?
In the Government. The Bush Admin. isn\'t trying to slap their "Christian values" in our face? BULLSHIT
First Ryu lives in a fantasy world. Secondly, didn\'t I warn you a while back about your profanity Mystiq? This is your last warning - tone it down. I don\'t mind it, but every post from you lately begins with a profanity laced comment. What "Christian values" has the Bush administration "slapped in your face Mystiq"? I recall asking you this countless times, yet you never answer.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
C\'mon Bush is getting pulled by the extreme left so hard his arm might come off. Who do you think got all of the support from those evangelist who made their people vote for him? Bush right now is there because his "Christian" values rose him above the sinful pro-abortion candidate.
So Bush was elected because of the issue of abortion? You are a complete idiot Mystiq. He was elected because of terrorism and national security. "Made their people vote for him?" :laughing:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/35336.htm
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Why is he sinful? Go to any church, go to any religious forums, ask any religious person why they aren\'t voting for Kerry and you would be surprised how many people can\'t look past freedom of choice.
WTF are you talking about? Another incoherent statement from Mystiq...
Originally posted by SirMystiq
The extreme right has all the cards now. You might like to think that the Government is full of wise and respectful men right now but you\'re lying to yourself if you think that these religious activist aren\'t taking Bush\'s win as a monument for Christianity. Ask any religious Christian right now. Bush is a symbol for the overturning of Roe vs. Wade, the ban on homosexual marriage and the pushing of the "creation" bullshit on our textbooks. And Bush has to keep his conservative base happy and I don\'t doubt he will.
Roe v. Wade overturned? Won\'t happen. Homosexual marriage. Three quarters of the country opposes it - that means even some liberals opposed it so don\'t try and hang that one soley on Conservatives. What is wrong with learning about Creationism as well as evolution? Should a child have right to choose what they believe?
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Schools are FINE. Just because the founding fathers used Christian morals in order to keep virtue on our society doesn\'t make this country founded by Christianity. I really don\'t see the bitching about the school system.
This country was founded on the principles of Christianity which helped guide and shape its foundation. Sorry if you don\'t want to accept that, but it is a fact.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
That kids of illegal immigrants are getting an education out of your tax money!!!???
Illegals should be deported along with their kids. I disagree just because someone is born here they get automatic citizenship regardless of their parents status.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
I\'ve never had health insurance other than Medicaid. My dad has worked at many places but never had enough to pay 452 dollars a month for health insurance. In fact my neighbors didn\'t either and they were legal!
I could actually get cheaper insurance - go online and get a quote from any health insurance provider and you will see it doesn\'t have to cost that much. Why don\'t I do that you ask? Well, I could for my son, but my wife had cancer 6 years ago and she is a "high risk" applicant so they would deny her. I suck it up and pay because I have to.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Welcome to America. The land that used to be equality. The land that used to have opportunities without having some semi-racist moron bitching about it. The land that everybody once shared. The land that recently is becoming more and more full of materialistic, arrogant "Americans" who would rather step on the hand of the poor than put a dollar in it.
Hopefully this new generation would be smarter than that.
Semi racist? Isn\'t that you ranting on about whitey? BTW are you a member of MEChA or La Raza? ;)
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What do all of those countries have in common Ginko? They are small with small populations. This discussion has taken place before on this board regarding Sweden and its decades long control of its population in order to achieve a balance so that the government could subsidide "welfare".
You don\'t support it because you\'d rather have your near 500 dollar a month extra bill be called "healthcare" then to have that extra revenue called "taxes." You think keeping health care a privilidge is somehow better for a nation of 250 million where 125 million of them are without a basic necessity of life. People should be guaranteed it, not shunned from it. It works for you though because you have it. Until you\'re without it, you can\'t understand where I\'m coming from.
First Ryu lives in a fantasy world.
Wrong. I think we can change and we can change for the better, but here\'s a little bit of reality for you:
Reality: This country is a train wreck.
Reality: It\'s people like you that make it that way.
Reality: It\'s people like you who think that\'s a good thing.
Reality: Until people like you actually explore the quality of living below the poverty line, you\'ll never understand where I\'m coming from with this one. Why it\'s so important that we care for everyone. It doesn\'t have to be your way or the highway.
Secondly, didn\'t I warn you a while back about your profanity Mystiq? This is your last warning - tone it down.
Why? I said bullshit. LiC says bullshit in other forums. We\'re all adults here. If the word was bad, I\'m sure the censor would have caught it.
He was elected because of terrorism and national security.
Don\'t forget homosexual marriage. This was quite possibly the biggest reason. Even carry didn\'t support it, but he didn\'t discuss it as much as Bush did. He didn\'t think it was a key topic. Obviously, he was wrong amazingly enough.
Illegals should be deported along with their kids. I disagree just because someone is born here they get automatic citizenship regardless of their parents status.
If you\'re Native American, I can see where you\'re coming from. If you\'re not, then please stfu. Otherwise, you should have to leave as well. Just because you\'ve been here longer doesn\'t give you some kind of immunity to it all. We were all illegals at some point with the exception of Native Americans.
Well, I could for my son, but my wife had cancer 6 years ago and she is a "high risk" applicant so they would deny her. I suck it up and pay because I have to.
And you somehow think this is the better system to have? One where you have to pay more because someone in your family had a lethal disease? Heh. Then you\'d prefer to pay more for more prisons as your solution to crime? Man, you baffle me a great deal good sir.
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Originally posted by Ryu
You don\'t support it because you\'d rather have your near 500 dollar a month extra bill be called "healthcare" then to have that extra revenue called "taxes." You think keeping health care a privilidge is somehow better for a nation of 250 million where 125 million of them are without a basic necessity of life. People should be guaranteed it, not shunned from it. It works for you though because you have it. Until you\'re without it, you can\'t understand where I\'m coming from.
See Canada. Enough said.
Originally posted by Ryu
Wrong. I think we can change and we can change for the better, but here\'s a little bit of reality for you:
Reality: This country is a train wreck.
Reality: Really, how is the country a train wreck compared to the past 15 years? You have no clue.
Originally posted by Ryu
Reality: It\'s people like you that make it that way.
Reality: It\'s people like you that want free handouts and think the government owes them something. Frankly it is sickening.
Originally posted by Ryu
Reality: It\'s people like you who think that\'s a good thing.
Yes I do, if that means everyone has to earn their own way.
Originally posted by Ryu
Reality: Until people like you actually explore the quality of living below the poverty line, you\'ll never understand where I\'m coming from with this one. Why it\'s so important that we care for everyone. It doesn\'t have to be your way or the highway.
Stop whining and expecting the government to take care of you. It won\'t happen. Do something about it and make your quality of living better. That is the principle idea of this country... you are the master of your own destiny.
Originally posted by Ryu
Why? I said bullshit. LiC says bullshit in other forums. We\'re all adults here. If the word was bad, I\'m sure the censor would have caught it.
He uses it repeatedly and sounds like a 12 year old pitching a temper tantrum. As I stated I don\'t mind profanity here and there, but it is an every post occurrance lately with him. You are also wrong about the "all adults here" part. Mystiq for one is not an adult. The ony thing excessive profanity does in here is take away from the point one is trying to make.
Originally posted by Ryu
If you\'re Native American, I can see where you\'re coming from. If you\'re not, then please stfu. Otherwise, you should have to leave as well. Just because you\'ve been here longer doesn\'t give you some kind of immunity to it all. We were all illegals at some point with the exception of Native Americans.
Native American? This country was not founded by them. Don\'t use the lame excuse that "they were here first and we stole their land" crap. Really... the point is moot. Illegals here now have no right to be here and should be deported. Hence, the name illegal.
Originally posted by Ryu
And you somehow think this is the better system to have? One where you have to pay more because someone in your family had a lethal disease? Heh. Then you\'d prefer to pay more for more prisons as your solution to crime? Man, you baffle me a great deal good sir.
You really have no idea what the costs would be for national healthcare. Even Kerry\'s plan which didn\'t cover everyone was astronomical. You do indeed live on another planet and it goes by the name of Kalifornia.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What do all of those countries have in common Ginko? They are small with small populations. This discussion has taken place before on this board regarding Sweden and its decades long control of its population in order to achieve a balance so that the government could subsidide "welfare".
Not just small populations though, Japan has a very large population, not to mention very dense, and it has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
As of July 2004 there is an estimated 127 million people living in Japan. >>>Link<<< (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ja.html)
If it can work for that big of a population then I don\'t see why something else couldn\'t work here. I know we have roughly 300 million people but I don\'t see that as a reason to just let the crime rate slide. It\'s broke, fix it.
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My friend who was stationed in Japan said it\'s kind of a weird place, seems like everyone is in their own little world. He also said you could leave your cellphone on a park bench, come back an hour later and it would still be there.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
First Ryu lives in a fantasy world. Secondly, didn\'t I warn you a while back about your profanity Mystiq? This is your last warning - tone it down. I don\'t mind it, but every post from you lately begins with a profanity laced comment. What "Christian values" has the Bush administration "slapped in your face Mystiq"? I recall asking you this countless times, yet you never answer.
So Bush was elected because of the issue of abortion? You are a complete idiot Mystiq. He was elected because of terrorism and national security. "Made their people vote for him?" :laughing:
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/35336.htm
WTF are you talking about? Another incoherent statement from Mystiq...
Roe v. Wade overturned? Won\'t happen. Homosexual marriage. Three quarters of the country opposes it - that means even some liberals opposed it so don\'t try and hang that one soley on Conservatives. What is wrong with learning about Creationism as well as evolution? Should a child have right to choose what they believe?
This country was founded on the principles of Christianity which helped guide and shape its foundation. Sorry if you don\'t want to accept that, but it is a fact.
Illegals should be deported along with their kids. I disagree just because someone is born here they get automatic citizenship regardless of their parents status.
I could actually get cheaper insurance - go online and get a quote from any health insurance provider and you will see it doesn\'t have to cost that much. Why don\'t I do that you ask? Well, I could for my son, but my wife had cancer 6 years ago and she is a "high risk" applicant so they would deny her. I suck it up and pay because I have to.
Semi racist? Isn\'t that you ranting on about whitey? BTW are you a member of MEChA or La Raza? ;)
Ryu lives in a fantasy world?
I don\'t recall him saying that we should deport all illegal immigrants.
Ryu should be legally known as "Ryu-A true American"
I\'m an idiot? Where there not countless stories and news reports about how people were swayed to vote for Bush because of "moral" issues? I used abortion as an example but appereantly you love taking everything literally. And are you denying that many Christians pastors endorsed Bush and urged their congregation vote for him?
There is nothing wrong with learning about creationism. What book should it go into though? Science? Not at all, this is just Christians TAKING ADVANTAGE of their Christian leaning leaders.
This country was founded on some ethics of Christianity. How did it help mold this country?
Illegals should be deported with their kids. HA...too late. Really talk about reality. Just to make you hate me more...I\'m a citizen under the very same circumstances that you presented.
I\'m a member of neither. And I\'m not "ranting" I\'m just stating the obvious.
And the FACT that Ryu presented about Native American\'s aren\'t lame. It\'s just hard to accept you\'re own hypocrisy isn\'t it?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Ryu lives in a fantasy world?
I don\'t recall him saying that we should deport all illegal immigrants.
Ryu should be legally known as "Ryu-A true American"
I\'m an idiot? Where there not countless stories and news reports about how people were swayed to vote for Bush because of "moral" issues? I used abortion as an example but appereantly you love taking everything literally. And are you denying that many Christians pastors endorsed Bush and urged their congregation vote for him?
First of all Christian pastors can\'t endorse candidates they would lose their tax exemption status - look at the problems the NAACP has run into for endorsing a candidate.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
There is nothing wrong with learning about creationism. What book should it go into though? Science? Not at all, this is just Christians TAKING ADVANTAGE of their Christian leaning leaders.
Huh? What?
Originally posted by SirMystiq
This country was founded on some ethics of Christianity. How did it help mold this country?
The reference to God is in almost every major document authored by our founding fathers. These documents are the underlying foundation of our society.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Illegals should be deported with their kids. HA...too late. Really talk about reality. Just to make you hate me more...I\'m a citizen under the very same circumstances that you presented.
There have been rumblings on the right lately that have grown louder wanting to expel all of the "invaders" who come from Mexico. Bush is even feeling backlash for his stance on wanting to legalize illegals. I could say more... but it would just upset you.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
I\'m a member of neither.
That is willing suspension of disbelief.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
And the FACT that Ryu presented about Native American\'s aren\'t lame. It\'s just hard to accept you\'re own hypocrisy isn\'t it?
Since we are on the subject of Native American\'s - the Spanish committed far worse atrocities then the Anglo\'s in the grand scheme of things. I am sure that FACT will be hard for you to digest.
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I just don\'t have time in the mornings to respond at length to your posts like I\'d prefer to -- I did it yesterday and was almost late for class -- but I will address them later on when I have more time. I do want to tackle this one point here though before then.
Since we are on the subject of Native American\'s - the Spanish committed far worse atrocities then the Anglo\'s in the grand scheme of things. I am sure that FACT will be hard for you to digest.
I\'m not talking about us stealing land or committing atrocities against the Indians although that is something we did at gret length. I\'m talking about us Americans all being immigrants. The only thing that sets us apart from other "illegal" immigrants is the fact that so many conservative whites somehow think their generational seniority is somehow paramount. It somehow exempts them from all this stupid talk about deporting "illegal" immigrants when they themselves are actually no different from those people they\'re trying to get rid of.
But why deport them at all? What makes YOU any better then them? What, because you think they\'re "illegal"? Immigrants making laws against other immigrants doesn\'t somehow make them different and excluded from some outlandish deportation laws that you propose. Regardless, I don\'t even understand why you\'d want to do something like that, but before you have a chance to respond, here\'s some fuel for the fire:
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=walmart
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Originally posted by Ryu
I just don\'t have time in the mornings to respond at length to your posts like I\'d prefer to -- I did it yesterday and was almost late for class -- but I will address them later on when I have more time. I do want to tackle this one point here though before then.
:laughing: I know exactly what you mean. It seems I get to respond in the mornings and others respond late at night.
Anyway, illegal is illegal - they are breaking the law. Most of the money they earn here doesn\'t stay here, but instead heads back to Mexico.
Another thing that irritates me about illegal aliens and immigrants from Mexico is their refusal to learn English. Instead they still want to speak Spanish and our government obliges them by printing documents in Spanish at our expense.
Call me arrogant, but my family has served, fought and died for this country for generations. I am proud of my heritage and it is that heritage that built this country. So it sickens me to see someone come to this country illegally, crap on the culture my ancestors helped build, reap benefits at my expense and then send most of whatever they make back to Mexico or whatever banana republic they came from. Illegals shouldn\'t have any rights and should be deported back to the country of their orgin. If you want to come here do it legally.
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Banana Republic...
HA!
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"It\'s so good that cats ask for it by name"...
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
:laughing: I know exactly what you mean. It seems I get to respond in the mornings and others respond late at night.
Anyway, illegal is illegal - they are breaking the law. Most of the money they earn here doesn\'t stay here, but instead heads back to Mexico.
Another thing that irritates me about illegal aliens and immigrants from Mexico is their refusal to learn English. Instead they still want to speak Spanish and our government obliges them by printing documents in Spanish at our expense.
Call me arrogant, but my family has served, fought and died for this country for generations. I am proud of my heritage and it is that heritage that built this country. So it sickens me to see someone come to this country illegally, crap on the culture my ancestors helped build, reap benefits at my expense and then send most of whatever they make back to Mexico or whatever banana republic they came from. Illegals shouldn\'t have any rights and should be deported back to the country of their orgin. If you want to come here do it legally.
Is that whitey whining?
You aren\'t the only one that pays taxes buddy. I work. I pay taxes. Teachers work they pay taxes. The governor of Arizona works. He pays taxes.
This just isn\'t about you.
This isn\'t about all the crap you said.
This is just about how much people have centered themselves around their materialistic property that would rather take a dump on a homeless guy than help him out. I have no anger when I pay taxes because I\'m grateful for what I earn and I have no problem helping others out. That is what Americans did. THAT IS THIS COUTRY\'S HERITAGE. That is what this country was built on.
You have turned it into what concerns you and you\'re money.
Who craps on you\'re culture Giga?
What is the American culture Giga?
English? Hamburgers? Or the DIVERSE backgrounds of the many inhabitants of this country? Isn\'t this countries heritage that of being multi-cultural? It has always been that way.
If you want to come here do it legally. Yeah, because it\'s so damn easy huh? If you had any idea of what those people have to live through you\'re eyes would actually open. But you don\'t. You speak out of your butt and smear mud on your eyes.
Both of my cousins are in the military right now. My aunt is married to a veteran. Please dude. There are many soldiers right now in Iraq that come from illegal families.
There is NO need to learn English. Spanish is almost a second language here. It must be learned if you want to go anywhere. I know you don\'t think so and I know you feel awful allowing yourself or any of your family to learn it because it\'s not your "culture"-whatever that could be.
This country needs illegal workers. This country is kept together by those workers who do the jobs for cheap. Who work for nothing. Who take up jobs that you middle class to upper class Americans who sit at your computer whining aren\'t willing to do.
Please dude. Don\'t walk outside. You might step on pavement that an illegal made for you. Don\'t drive. You might drive on a street that an illegal made for you. Don\'t go grocery shopping. You might eat a frut that an illegal picked for you for a low amount of money under the hot sun.
America is the land of dreams. Too bad Americans don\'t let it be.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Is that whitey whining?
If you want to come here do it legally. Yeah, because it\'s so damn easy huh? If you had any idea of what those people have to live through you\'re eyes would actually open. But you don\'t. You speak out of your butt and smear mud on your eyes.
There is NO need to learn English. Spanish is almost a second language here. It must be learned if you want to go anywhere. I know you don\'t think so and I know you feel awful allowing yourself or any of your family to learn it because it\'s not your "culture"-whatever that could be.
This country needs illegal workers. This country is kept together by those workers who do the jobs for cheap. Who work for nothing. Who take up jobs that you middle class to upper class Americans who sit at your computer whining aren\'t willing to do.
Please dude. Don\'t walk outside. You might step on pavement that an illegal made for you. Don\'t drive. You might drive on a street that an illegal made for you. Don\'t go grocery shopping. You might eat a frut that an illegal picked for you for a low amount of money under the hot sun.
America is the land of dreams. Too bad Americans don\'t let it be.
You yourself said Americans weren\'t willing to do the jobs so the illegal workers do. It\'s just that though, they aren\'t americans, nor should they be. Thus the term illegal. I don\'t care what they do for me, the job is going to be done one way or another, illegal is illegal is illegal.
Yet again, why should we bend over backwords so people can come here for the better life yet retain their same old language. Some of you just want everything your way. We\'re in America, speak English.
.....is the whitey whining....you\'re really showing your age and ignorance
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Is that whitey whining?
You aren\'t the only one that pays taxes buddy. I work. I pay taxes.
Sorry buddy. Had to stop there.
You are a student. You are exempt from taxes. I pay your taxes. And a hell of a lot of them.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Semi racist? Isn\'t that you ranting on about whitey? BTW are you a member of MEChA or La Raza? ;)
Yeah...I guess that statement doesn\'t show his age and ignorance does it Bozco.
Vid last time I checked I get over 60 dollars in deductions.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What do all of those countries have in common Ginko? They are small with small populations. This discussion has taken place before on this board regarding Sweden and its decades long control of its population in order to achieve a balance so that the government could subsidide "welfare".
What control is that?
Please dont bring up the sterilisation shit you talked about back then. It had nothing to do with controlling the number of people living in the country.
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Originally posted by fastson
What control is that?
Please dont bring up the sterilisation shit you talked about back then. It had nothing to do with controlling the number of people living in the country.
What do you think forced sterilization is?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Yeah...I guess that statement doesn\'t show his age and ignorance does it Bozco.
How many times have you blamed whites for your problems or ranted on about rich white people in this forum? MEChA and La Raza are racist organizations and you defended them after I brought them up. You don\'t see me defending Stormfront do you? Quite the opposite.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What do you think forced sterilization is?
It sure as hell had nothing to do with limiting the number of people living in the country, to keep a "balance" in the welfare system as you said.
Do you know what type of people they sterilised?
There have been dozens of television programs/reports about it and I cant remember one even mentioning what you imply.
Sorry but you are wrong here.
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Yet again, why should we bend over backwords so people can come here for the better life yet retain their same old language. Some of you just want everything your way. We\'re in America, speak English.
I do agree that our adopted language should be English and people should have to learn it when they arrive here. It just makes more sense to me.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Yeah...I guess that statement doesn\'t show his age and ignorance does it Bozco.
Nobody constantly makes it an issue like you do, except maybe Quddus.
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Someon here must be forgetting how America was built BEFORE there were migrations from Mexico. Miss Tiq needs to take History lessons over again.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Sorry buddy. Had to stop there.
You are a student. You are exempt from taxes. I pay your taxes. And a hell of a lot of them.
Thats not true.
Exemption depends on income and dependency status. A student who is a dependant and makes over (I believe) $12,000 has pay taxes.
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Wow $60 total deductions per paycheck. :rolleyes: That about covers my local tax deducation alone.
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Exemption depends on income and dependency status. A student who is a dependant and makes over (I believe) $12,000 has pay taxes.
Bingo. This is right where I fall into. You don\'t pay shit for me, Vid. Oh, and it\'s pretty apalling how both Videoholic and Gigashadow outright dismiss the opinions of college students and for no other reason then to say "college grounds are breeding areas for liberals" or whatever the hell was said. That\'s a pretty huge sweeping statement. It almost sounds like you find our point of view threatening because it just may shake up your comfortable grip you seem to have on life here in the states. Fear change, but don\'t dismiss us entirely simply because we\'re students and we have optimistic views for the future. We\'re still adults. We still pay taxes. We are still citizens of this nation. Last time I checked, my blood was still red too and we both wanted to have a better future for ourselves and our children. I don\'t see why my opinion should be dismissed outright because I\'m a student. I must have missed the memo where being 30+ somehow gave you a better view on life then someone who is in their 20\'s.
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Originally posted by Ryu
I must have missed the memo where being 30+ somehow gave you a better view on life then someone who is in their 20\'s.
Apparently you did. ;)
Seriously, when you are 30+ you will look back at your 20\'s and just shake your head and it isn\'t mostly about politics.
Oddly enough, why do you think one needs to be at least 35 to run for President? Couldn\'t have anything to do with life experience and maturing viewpoints could it?
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Seriously, when you are 30+ you will look back at your 20\'s and just shake your head and it isn\'t mostly about politics.
It has everything to do with the president actually building up a political background to run for president. No party would nominate some no-name guy with some bright ideas. Everyone has bright ideas. The politics behind putting them into action is the staggering amount of information that needs to be learned by participating in the house and in the senate. Aside from that, the youngest president ever was (I believe) JFK and he was 46 at the time and considered to be one of the most progressive presidents ever. The only other to come close was Garfield at 49 or JFK\'s brother who was killed before he could even take office after winning the election. No president since has had the youthful vigor of the Kennedy\'s and that\'s really unfortunate. Even when Kennedy was in office, the one thing he said that plagued him more then anything was that he was the most powerful man in the world, but he had relatively little power to invoke actual change.
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It has nothing to do with building a political background. This was put into the Constitution long before modern political careers were even thought of.
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Then show me where it says experience in the constitution is the reason for the age deferrment.
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Show me where it says building up a political background. I still say it is due to maturity.
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Originally posted by Bozco
Nobody constantly makes it an issue like you do, except maybe Quddus.
I guess you\'re right.
But notice how he associated me with what he calls "racist" groups. Oops, must of missed the memo where Giga is the only person that gets to ban others because associations others make.
Because the Government isn\'t controlled by rich white guys...right?
I don\'t bring up the issue of race as an issue. You have got to be kidding me if you say I\'m mistaken that rich white males control the country. I sure wouldn\'t think a Hispanic or a Black controlled government would be against affirmative action, immigration and welfare. It could be but the odds are against it.
I guess growing older does affect your political views. Not because you mature but just because the *new* ways don\'t match with the way you were brought up. And it\'s not like if every 35+ year old is more mature. When Giga? Only if they turn more conservative? Where you a liberal in your 20\'s Giga?
College Professors are mostly well over 35 and with PhD\'s and many licenses that allow them to make their own decision. But I guess intelligence is only there if you are a conservative right Giga?
If you grew up in a racist household and then had to live thru the 60\'s...You sure as hell wouldn\'t support any of the things that went on.
Gman...This country was BUILT by migration. In fact, by today\'s standards it would be ILLEGAL migration. Thousands from Europe flooded the north.
I whine about whitey?
You wouldn\'t call...
"They should learn Spanish"
"Alot of them take advantage of my money!"
"They take our jobs"
...whining?
Also, you never answered exactly what is this "American Culture" you are defending Giga.
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Show me where it says building up a political background. I still say it is due to maturity.
I didn\'t reference the constitution, you did. My reasoning makes logical sense, especially given the prospect of long-term politicians. If it had only to do with age, then there would be lots of extra candidates running for president every four years, but instead it\'s just the political party candidates chosen primarily by the political parties supported by years of trust working with the system and the history of their political decisions supporting the party. If it was maturity, then I don\'t see any politician, republican or otherwise, suggesting Bush was the man for the job.
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Mystiq it really might be better if you get back to class and stop posting in this forum ;). Seriously though any organization that promotes one race is racist, period. I don\'t care what you say NAACP is a racist group just as much as KKK, there I said it, oh no. When is the last time either of those groups helped out another person of a different race???
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I\'m getting sick of your racist shit, Mystiq...
When was the last time you posted without using "rich, white man" or "whitey"?
Keep it up and whitey is gonna ban you, brownie...
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Originally posted by mjps21983
I don\'t care what you say NAACP is a racist group just as much as KKK
Wrong.
Then again - perhaps some of the NAACP staff etc are racist. If im not mistaken, ALL of the KKK is racist. Not only that but who rallies and promotes one "superior" race etc and commits acts of violence?
Certainly not the NAACP.
Racist? Perhaps to an extent, but just as racist as the kkk? Give me a break.
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The KKK needs to die, along with Neo Nazis. They think they are making the world a better place :rolleyes:
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Ok, maybe not KKK, but to an extent any organization of any sort that promotes one race or is race exclusive to me is racist.
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Racism is the idea that one race is superior to another. Promoting one race does not mean you think that race is superior to another.
A group promoting "White Power" in the sense that they want to promote white people and defend white people is not racist. When they do so because they believe blacks. hispanics, and asians are lesser beings then it is racist.
KKK = Racist
Nazis = Racist
NAACP = Biased
60\'s Panthers = Biased
70\'s Panthers = Racist
That mexican group Giga posted = Racist
Ashford = Racist ;)
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Originally posted by Ashford
I\'m getting sick of your racist shit, Mystiq...
When was the last time you posted without using "rich, white man" or "whitey"?
Keep it up and whitey is gonna ban you, brownie...
You\'ve got to be shitting me.
My racist shit?
How is it racist?
And I supposed the countless "jokes" about my nationality, Mexicans and how I got here aren\'t racist right?
This is the first time in a long time I post about "rich, white male" Give me a break.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Racism is the idea that one race is superior to another. Promoting one race does not mean you think that race is superior to another.
A group promoting "White Power" in the sense that they want to promote white people and defend white people is not racist. When they do so because they believe blacks. hispanics, and asians are lesser beings then it is racist.
KKK = Racist
Nazis = Racist
NAACP = Biased
60\'s Panthers = Biased
70\'s Panthers = Racist
That mexican group Giga posted = Racist
Ashford = Racist ;)
Not to jump on anybodys coat tails, but id have to agree with this guy.
Especially about ashford. Man. Maybe we should thow giga on there too... so misinformed :p jfwu.
Not like any of this is a big deal.
I thought we were talking about California?
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The fact that the word whitey comes out of some of your post is bad enough mystiq, but you can\'t even figure that out.
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I don\'t give a shit who started what ethnic jokes...
This is to tell everyone to STFU...
Giga can be dragging black people behind a pickup truck for all I care and you can be planning an ethnic cleansing in your neighborhood...
Keep that shit out of here or else...
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
You\'ve got to be shitting me.
My racist shit?
How is it racist?
And I supposed the countless "jokes" about my nationality, Mexicans and how I got here aren\'t racist right?
This is the first time in a long time I post about "rich, white male" Give me a break.
Dude, mexican is not a race, its a nationality. He\'s just poking fun at your nationality.
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Originally posted by Titan
mexican is not a race, its a nationality.
It is both. A lot of countries are both.
A race is just a group of descendants of a common ancestor. Countries that are generally one ethnic group are used interchangeably with that ethnic group. It really comes down to semantics.
/If you go back far enough all of the different ethnic groups have common ancestors so...whatever.
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It is both.
Thank you for the short explanation. I almost lost it there and would have said something bad ;) Most of my heritage is of Hispanic origin. Although I\'m "whitey"...just kidding :shy:
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i think we can all talk about racial issues without someone retorting to insults..*looks back at the Al sharpton thread* in that thread even tho it was heated me and giga both had strong feelings on sharpton\'s speech and al sharpton as a person in general, but neither one of us responded with insulting the others race...you can have debates such as these...you just have to be mature about it...
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The point is, illegals need to be shipped out on the banana boat/truck they snuck in.
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Anyone remmember the end of "The Day After Tommorow" ?
:)
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Anyone remmember the end of "The Day After Tommorow" ?
:)
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GigaShadow :rolleyes:
My sentiments exactly ;)
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I didnt mean that comment in a too serious way, as I did think the end was stupid as ****.
But still, this thread just made me think of it. :)
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
I didnt mean that comment in a too serious way, as I did think the end was stupid as ****.
But still, this thread just made me think of it. :)
Well at least you explained yourself. ;)
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I can\'t believe that this tread is still going on... :eek:
from what I have read they have just banned the handing out of leaflets and nothing more. It’s not as if the whole East cost is converting to communism over night.
opps I am sorry I forgot it Giga\'s personal crusade to drag the whole Red states Vs Blue States into the forum.
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Wow, do you know what you\'re talking about ooseven?
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Yeah
Unlike some of the other people that for some strange reason put this thread off topi by talking about Nazis\'s and the KKK :p
and if i can remember what all this was about again.
A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God
So whats the "big" deal with the teacher not doing that ?
Ah maybe its because I am from a circular society, rather than the Bible bashing Middle Belt of America :p.
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Originally posted by ooseven
maybe its because I am from a circular society, rather than the Bible bashing Middle Belt of America :p.
Does that make us a triangular society? Cubic?
I really should have stayed awake in history....erm, I mean geometry.
"You....don\'t know what words mean, do you?" - David Cross(Mr. Show)
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Originally posted by ooseven
Ah maybe its because I am from a circular society, rather than the Bible bashing Middle Belt of America :p.
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
circular society... I think we have a candidate for dumbest post of the year award.
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: