PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: SwifDi on January 21, 2005, 01:22:01 PM
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Even though I\'m a moderate, shit like this makes me hate liberals even more.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/ts/012005inaugprotests&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=&e=39&a=0&t=&prev=38
Poor guy is just a recruiter... God I hate people sometimes.
Sgt. 1st Class Jeff Due, right, a U.S. Army recruiter, is surrounded by protesters at Seattle Central Community College, Thursday, Jan. 20, 2005, in Seattle. After about a 10-minute standoff during which protesters tore up U.S Army literature, the protesters were successful in getting Due and another recruiter to leave their table under escort by campus security officers. Several hundred students walked out of classes at several Seattle colleges and universities to protest the inauguration of President Bush (news - web sites). (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren)
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I agree. Except for the being a moderate part.
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You know what else is disgusting?!
The car bomb killings in Iraq. The way this country is shaping up. The fact that Bush won.
Pretty disgusting.
You know what else is also disguisting?
That I have yet to see a recruiter around the rich high schools here in Dallas. There have been a couple in my school promising us college money and such.
Please, the minute I sign that paper I would be shipped to Iraq. Why bother?
The most disgusting thing I\'ve heard all day though is that your right wing nut jobs are claiming that Spongebob is GAY!!!!
LOL!
And don\'t even try to refuse association with this people. This people are the same ones that got all of their Christian pals to vote for your president. This people pump in the money. This guy speaks for your guys.
LOL!
Spongebob is GAY!!
Pathetic. Maybe he should find a real job aside from brainwashing people and pretending to be something he isn\'t.
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Originally posted by SwifDi
Even though I\'m a moderate, shit like this makes me hate liberals even more.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/ts/012005inaugprotests&a=&tmpl=sl&ns=&l=&e=39&a=0&t=&prev=38
Poor guy is just a recruiter... God I hate people sometimes.
I do feel for the guy though. It was very improper, the guy was just doing his job.
On the other hand, I wouldn\'t have minded to see an egg smash Bush silly while he was taking a dum...I mean giving his speech to Americans.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
You know what else is disgusting?!
The car bomb killings in Iraq. The way this country is shaping up. The fact that Bush won.
Pretty disgusting.
You know what else is also disguisting?
That I have yet to see a recruiter around the rich high schools here in Dallas. There have been a couple in my school promising us college money and such.
Please, the minute I sign that paper I would be shipped to Iraq. Why bother?
The most disgusting thing I\'ve heard all day though is that your right wing nut jobs are claiming that Spongebob is GAY!!!!
LOL!
And don\'t even try to refuse association with this people. This people are the same ones that got all of their Christian pals to vote for your president. This people pump in the money. This guy speaks for your guys.
LOL!
Spongebob is GAY!!
Pathetic. Maybe he should find a real job aside from brainwashing people and pretending to be something he isn\'t.
I\'m so happy that Bush won. I\'m happier that it pissed off a lot of dumb asses.
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Paradox?
I thought you said you were happy?
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Yeah its sick how some of these people behave over this shit. I mean i may not be so incredibly pro bush but i wont say that im so disgusted by him that i want to move to canada or some bull. See there are different types of "liberals." You have the rational ones and then these morons.
Kinda how you have vegitarians and vegans.
I hate vegans.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
That I have yet to see a recruiter around the rich high schools here in Dallas. There have been a couple in my school promising us college money and such.
Please, the minute I sign that paper I would be shipped to Iraq. Why bother?
This just proves to me that you don\'t know jack shit about the military. First off, if you sign the papers and enter the military and go to college at the same time, they pay for FULL college tuition. The catch? You spend 5 years in the military, that\'s it. Secondly, you won\'t get shipped to Iraq during the time you are in college. There is a rule in the military that if you are getting an education at a college, you cannot be called into active service. Do your research next time.
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Radical leftists are not morons btw.
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Originally posted by Titan
Secondly, you won\'t get shipped to Iraq during the time you are in college. There is a rule in the military that if you are getting an education at a college, you cannot be called into active service. Do your research next time.
Are you sure about that? When I was at Morehouse in 2003 some ROTC students were called up.
/I could be wrong but I know that ROTC students were talking about three other students who were called up.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
You know what else is disgusting?!
The car bomb killings in Iraq. The way this country is shaping up. The fact that Bush won.
Pretty disgusting.
You know what else is also disguisting?
That I have yet to see a recruiter around the rich high schools here in Dallas. There have been a couple in my school promising us college money and such.
Please, the minute I sign that paper I would be shipped to Iraq. Why bother?
The most disgusting thing I\'ve heard all day though is that your right wing nut jobs are claiming that Spongebob is GAY!!!!
LOL!
And don\'t even try to refuse association with this people. This people are the same ones that got all of their Christian pals to vote for your president. This people pump in the money. This guy speaks for your guys.
LOL!
Spongebob is GAY!!
Pathetic. Maybe he should find a real job aside from brainwashing people and pretending to be something he isn\'t.
Wow, I think you\'ve just hit a new level of moron that his been unattainable until apparent recent developments in moron technology.
You do realize that they put recruiting offices in locations where they are more likely to get recruits right? Why would you put an office in the middle of an afluent community where you wouldn\'t get 1/10th the traffic?
Affluent americans join the military primarily due to heritagem patriotism or they suck and can\'t get into college. I have neither so I just paid my way through school :)
In lower class neighborhoods you will have people who need money to go to college, people who are patriotic and people who can\'t get into college. Perfect for a recruiting office.
Heck, I have no clue where a recruiting office is in Tampa. But then again, I\'m an old fart and my kid is a little too young for me to be taking him to those areas of town ;)
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Video is right, you tend to your markets.
And I feel no remorse for anyone "Tricked" into joining the military.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
You know what else is disgusting?!
The car bomb killings in Iraq. The way this country is shaping up. The fact that Bush won.
Pretty disgusting.
You know what else is also disguisting?
That I have yet to see a recruiter around the rich high schools here in Dallas. There have been a couple in my school promising us college money and such.
I had this exact same debate with this absolutely moronic lady at school. She bitched at me cause I was from the rich suburb of Pickerington and I wouldn\'t understand but sadly for her I did.
She was complaining about the military targeting students in the poor schools area, giving them no way out. Where she was wrong is Pickerington still had recruiters even though we were one of the richy suburbs of Columbus. The recruiters aren\'t offering you the only way out but just another choice. If you can\'t place into college it\'s nobodys fault but yourself. It happens everywhere.
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"If you can\'t place into college it\'s nobodys fault but yourself."
What about if you can\'t afford to go to college?
If your poor, you don\'t have very many options.
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it\'s called grants, scholarships, and loans
there\'s 3
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Originally posted by Titan
This just proves to me that you don\'t know jack shit about the military. First off, if you sign the papers and enter the military and go to college at the same time, they pay for FULL college tuition. The catch? You spend 5 years in the military, that\'s it. Secondly, you won\'t get shipped to Iraq during the time you are in college. There is a rule in the military that if you are getting an education at a college, you cannot be called into active service. Do your research next time.
Ah, so you won\'t get blown up before getting your degree. That\'s nice. ;)
Originally posted by mm
it\'s called grants, scholarships, and loans
there\'s 3
Here\'s one more - get a job you lazy bum. :p
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Video is right, you tend to your markets.
And I feel no remorse for anyone "Tricked" into joining the military.
Since when is serving your country a bad thing??? Nobody is forcing you to join, if you sign those papers it on free will, so your not being tricked or forced, if you don\'t read up and understand everything then thats your fault, not theres, but of course they should explain everything to you right???
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
The most disgusting thing I\'ve heard all day though is that your right wing nut jobs are claiming that Spongebob is GAY!!!!
LOL!
And don\'t even try to refuse association with this people. This people are the same ones that got all of their Christian pals to vote for your president. This people pump in the money. This guy speaks for your guys.
LOL!
Spongebob is GAY!!
Wow.... I mean wow.... Im going to touch on this part since everybody else has made you look retarded for the other parts of your post.
The same people? I am not a Christian, I support bush. I am republican, I am upset about the gay accusations on a cartoon for children. I am not rich, and I support Bush. And who speaks for the Liberals? Michael Moore? :laughing:
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SpongeBob is fruity, not gay. There\'s a difference ;)
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He DOES live in a pineapple.
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Don\'t we all?
And yes...that would make him even fruitier ;)
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quote:Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Video is right, you tend to your markets.
And I feel no remorse for anyone "Tricked" into joining the military.
Since when is serving your country a bad thing??? Nobody is forcing you to join, if you sign those papers it on free will, so your not being tricked or forced, if you don\'t read up and understand everything then thats your fault, not theres, but of course they should explain everything to you right???
Did you even read my post?
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
"If you can\'t place into college it\'s nobodys fault but yourself."
What about if you can\'t afford to go to college?
If your poor, you don\'t have very many options.
Stop whining and do something for yourself, thats what you do. I pay for school off the money I make working during school.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Wow, I think you\'ve just hit a new level of moron that his been unattainable until apparent recent developments in moron technology.
That says it all.
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Originally posted by videoholic
Wow, I think you\'ve just hit a new level of moron that his been unattainable until apparent recent developments in moron technology.
You do realize that they put recruiting offices in locations where they are more likely to get recruits right? Why would you put an office in the middle of an afluent community where you wouldn\'t get 1/10th the traffic?
Affluent americans join the military primarily due to heritagem patriotism or they suck and can\'t get into college. I have neither so I just paid my way through school :)
In lower class neighborhoods you will have people who need money to go to college, people who are patriotic and people who can\'t get into college. Perfect for a recruiting office.
Heck, I have no clue where a recruiting office is in Tampa. But then again, I\'m an old fart and my kid is a little too young for me to be taking him to those areas of town ;)
I\'ve seen a recruiting office in almost all shopping centers I\'ve been to. Except the ones that have the Escada, Gucci and the Nordstrom.
You\'re right. But it\'s too damn obvious that the military is mostly a last choice reserve for those that can\'t afford college, can\'t get into college or have no other way out. Meanwhile we have the upper to upper-middle class of Americans cheering this President with all their might and paying for their kids to go to a private high school.
Patriotism has become another word for arrogance.
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
You\'re right. But it\'s too damn obvious that the military is mostly a last choice reserve for those that can\'t afford college, can\'t get into college or have no other way out. Meanwhile we have the upper to upper-middle class of Americans cheering this President with all their might and paying for their kids to go to a private high school.
Your making it sound like its their only option in order to succeed. If they cant get into a college because of money there are things called scholarships. My family is a good example. She just graduated from SMU, one of the richest schools around. We arent rich, but she worked her ass off in community college and got a scholarship. They are the victim of themselves and only them if they cant get into college. And dont forget the bogus scholarships given out to people because they are black/hispanic.
Sounds like your making the upper-middle class into a group of evil people supporting an evil leader. Maybe its just jealousy thats making you make such statements.
God there is so much wrong with your post it pisses me off. You stereotype more than anyone I have ever met.
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Originally posted by Halberto
Your making it sound like its their only option in order to succeed. If they cant get into a college because of money there are things called scholarships. My family is a good example. She just graduated from SMU, one of the richest schools around. We arent rich, but she worked her ass off in community college and got a scholarship. They are the victim of themselves and only them if they cant get into college. And dont forget the bogus scholarships given out to people because they are black/hispanic.
Sounds like your making the upper-middle class into a group of evil people supporting an evil leader. Maybe its just jealousy thats making you make such statements.
God there is so much wrong with your post it pisses me off. You stereotype more than anyone I have ever met.
Well, I was wrong about the being shipped off to Iraq deal.
I guess getting a diploma then getting shipped off is better.
You are very stupid to say those things. How about those that have shit parents? Or those that grow up in the bad parts of towns? Who cares about them right?
I\'m not making any name calling on the upper-middle class. My family is, well almost and upper middle class.
I\'m going to SMU! Awsome. I got some scholarships but I\'m still waiting for the big one. If not, I\'m stuck with A&M or Tech. I\'ll just join the army what the hell.
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Just admit you\'re wrong about 99% of the stuff you say and be over with it.
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Mystic getting scholarships?
Are the Special Olympics recruiting?
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Originally posted by Halberto
And dont forget the bogus scholarships given out to people because they are black/hispanic.
As opposed to the bogus scholarships given to people because they are white / women / smokers / parents / left-handed / christian / muslim / from a rural area / overweight / etcetera?
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Miss Tiq is the most ignorant and most prejudiced person here. He doesn\'t like white people, doesn\'t like families who are successful (upper middle class), doesn\'t respect this country or the military. I mean....damn...if you hate this country this much, move to California or Canada! Or Mexico.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
if you hate this country this much, move to California
You just jealous. GO ARNOLD! lol. Think he finally realized how much gray davis screwed our economy. At least hes made a small dent.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
Are you sure about that? When I was at Morehouse in 2003 some ROTC students were called up.
/I could be wrong but I know that ROTC students were talking about three other students who were called up.
I\'ve heard stuff like that. I really don\'t know about that though. The military isn\'t supposed to call ROTC trainees into active duty. I don\'t see a point. They are doing ROTC to learn to be officers. It doesn\'t help the military much pulling them from the program prematurely to send them. If they were in their last year, they technically are in the military or some shit like that. ROTC do get called but rarely happens. It shoudln\'t be like that though. They only really do that if they need to.
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Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Yeah its sick how some of these people behave over this shit. I mean i may not be so incredibly pro bush but i wont say that im so disgusted by him that i want to move to canada or some bull. See there are different types of "liberals." You have the rational ones and then these morons.
Kinda how you have vegitarians and vegans.
I hate vegans.
What a stupid thing to say. How does what someone will or will not eat make you a moron? What? You won\'t drink carrot juice and eat bean curds with me? Well, you\'re a freaking moron, I hate you. Great argument, see how good it sounds?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
I\'ve seen a recruiting office in almost all shopping centers I\'ve been to. Except the ones that have the Escada, Gucci and the Nordstrom.
You\'re right. But it\'s too damn obvious that the military is mostly a last choice reserve for those that can\'t afford college, can\'t get into college or have no other way out. Meanwhile we have the upper to upper-middle class of Americans cheering this President with all their might and paying for their kids to go to a private high school.
Patriotism has become another word for arrogance.
If they paid the rent it took for the storefronts next to Escada and Nordstrums you\'d bitch that it was a waste of tax payer money and why don\'t they go to cheaper malls.
How low can you go? How low can you go?
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Miss Tiq is the most ignorant and most prejudiced person here. He doesn\'t like white people, doesn\'t like families who are successful (upper middle class), doesn\'t respect this country or the military. I mean....damn...if you hate this country this much, move to California or Canada! Or Mexico.
Yes I am. I hate everything around me. You couldn\'t be more correct. You definately deserve a prize.
OR maybe they know that only the poor kids would be more inclined to joining...I\'m not arguing about the military not posting up offices in rich neighborhoods, all I want to see is the stupid and arrogant morons who would do anything to see things such as welfare and the "projects" be slashed completely out of the budget while the majority of the kids protecting your sorry ass come from those places.
Meanwhile, we have the rich who support this type of unjustified war because their kids are safe in college or in a private high school. Their kids don\'t need the college money because it is provided for them.
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ignorance is bliss
or in SirMystiq\'s case, stupidity is too
i beg you, please do not have children
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Yes. I will take your word to heart. I fully believe that your opinion and views are superior.
Thank you.
Moron...
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yet you hate rich people?
oh yeah, im evil cause i...
1. had a job in high school to save up money for college
2. actually left my house to apply for any loan/grant/scholarship i could sign my name to
3. *went to class*
4 ?
5. profit!
and for you to bitch about what you did, are either....
1. lazy
2. lazy
2. really fucking lazy
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Mystiq...go away...nobody likes you.
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There are lots of Americans who hate America.
Yet, for some reason, very few of them manage to find better places in the world to live.
Yer all like a bunch of battered wives: I feel sorry for you, sort of, but if you\'re stupid enough to stay, you deserve what you get.
Canada\'s just a short drive north, no matter where you are.
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I miss your old avatar, Weltall.
Canada\'s just a short drive north, no matter where you are.
I like living in my country, thanks ;)
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
I miss your old avatar, Weltall.
Which?
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Gah!! *head explodes* I can\'t quite recall. I just remember liking one of your avatars a long ass time ago. Which ones did you have before? *forgetting blows*
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hmm...
Until today, I had Jay Jay from Good Times.
Before that... I had a blue Samurai with W behind it... had a sketch of a man and woman kissing for a long time... had a small animation of the twin towers dodging airplanes...
Can\'t remember beyond those.
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Probably one of the first 2 you said. It\'s not a big deal, I just hate not being able to remember simple crap like that. And Resevoir Dogs kicks ass. :)
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Originally posted by Viper_Fujax
You just jealous. GO ARNOLD! lol. Think he finally realized how much gray davis screwed our economy. At least hes made a small dent.
I like Arnold. Was he able to deny driver\'s licenses to illegal immigrants? I dunno why any illegals should have one to begin with. Put\'em back on mules, I say. :D
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:gman:
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Evis, you prefer that the illegals have a right to a driver\'s license? Care to esplen why, amigo?
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I wasn\'t referring to that I was referring to your Mexican bashing which I find offensive but which I\'m not taking that seriously because I really don\'t give a damn thus making this post pointless and I figured I wouldn\'t use periods to make reading this really annoying without any pauses and whales have 400 pound penises...
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Hey, I hate the American government. I also dislike and/or disagree with a -large- portion of the American population.
I dislike American(western) culture. I dislike capitalism, but not because of what it is, because of what it creates, and what it\'s existence does to culture and politics in general.
I hate cynicism, I also equally hate mainstream liberals who preach & leach off of the system that they are trying to change.
I hate tax. I hate government programs. I hate the monoply that capitalism has created of the physical landscape.
With that said, I hate the "Well you should leave argument". Canada is just stupid ass liberal-bullshit version of America, except crappier... And well, Canadian.
Not only is there an almost complete lack of physicall space on the globe where you are not indirectly owned and controlled by the government, creating such a space requires a LARGE amount of cooperation and funds. And to make shit happen, you can\'t just leave. You have to make it happen. One way or the other, if it comes from community effort, poetic terrorism, drop-out culture, or whatever else... It isn\'t really about WHERE you are, it\'s more about what your doing.
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There\'s one thing you can do, and it\'s really easy:
DEAL WITH IT.
Anarchy is so stupid. I hate anarchists. People who hate the system are usually those who lack the capacity to succeed within it.
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It is not that Anarchists can\'t "succeed", it is that their idea of success is completley different then yours.
DEAL WITH IT?
I am dealing with it, dealing with something is not complete submission into something, but accepting certain limitations and realizing that other limitations are not set in stone.
Oh and by the way, I\'d be very happy to have a debate with you on wether or not Anarchy is "Stupid" if you give me atleast one refrence point to why you disagree with it.
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Anarchy is so early 80\'s. :rolleyes:
You were born 20 years too late DH.
I also agree with Weltall\'s statement:
"People who hate the system are usually those who lack the capacity to succeed within it."
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Ugh, please both of you get over the idea of success. It is so bullshit. It is a personal word that can only be judged personally, not by any universal concept of the word.
Now, Giga, I\'m going to asume that you know that the ideas of Anarchy did not start in 1980. What exactly are you referring to then? Obviously when Punk got mainstream, some Anarchist ideas also got pushed foward.... Well, let me take that back... Anarchist ideas never got pushed to the mainstream, just the symbols and words.
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Your little rant about hating the government, society, etc... so cliche. I guess you perceive yourself as the dark, moody type?
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I\'m not dark, and I\'m not moody.
And I\'m not being cliche.
You don\'t know shit about what your talking about, so I guess sticking to vague sarcastic adolescent remarks is all I\'m going to get you to do.
You\'re Fat.
Are we on the same level of discussion yet?
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
You don\'t know shit about what your talking about, so I guess sticking to vague sarcastic adolescent remarks is all I\'m going to get you to do.
You\'re Fat.
Are we on the same level of discussion yet?
Like I said... moody.
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Honestly I feel like I\'m talking to an 8 year old.
Forgive me for thinking that a relevant conversation could take place on these boards.
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I think it is that time of the month ;)
Anarchism is so stupid. Dude, do you know what would happen if there is no government? People need authority to control them. Citizens of a country are like children. You set no rules or boudaries, they run wild. When there is no government, people do whatever the f*** they want since there is no government to stop them. Robbery, rape, murder will be very prevelent. Yup. Anarchy is retarded.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
I\'d be very happy to have a debate with you on wether or not Anarchy is "Stupid" if you give me atleast one refrence point to why you disagree with it.
Anarchy is a completely unfeasible notion. Anarchy itself would eventually turn into another government. It is unable to sustain itself.
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Hooray, thankyou for making a post I can actually respond to with some content. I love you.
Dude, do you know what would happen if there is no government?
Ugh, responding to this is hard. I don\'t want to write pages so I\'ll try and keep this somewhat-breif.
Historically, there has not always been government. People can survive without government.
Do I know what would happen?
Yes and No. Each case is different, but historically, there has been no degeneration into chaos, I\'m not advocating complete chaos here.
For example, in the Ukraine during the Russian revolution, there was no government. The peasents defeated the Western armys and created an Anarchist army that was able to survive in peace, only protecting their homes from invaders. This society was functioning normally untill the Bolsheviks of Russia massacred the Anarchists (First in Russia, then the Ukraine, I\'m sure you\'ve heard of the millions that were killed in starved in the Ukraine by the USSR.)
Other examples are the early American settlers, and before that the Native American tribes.... The Republic of Fiume, Pirate ports on the carribian islands and Madagascar, all pre-neolithic society\'s, etc....
So I do not think it is so crazy to believe we can live without government.
People need authority to control them. Citizens of a country are like children.
Oh come on. You have such little faith in human beings. People can survive through co-operation and community. We don\'t need Big-Brother helping us survive now do we? Surley the homeless and squatters of urban areas do not depend on the government to survive.
Robbery, rape, murder will be very prevelent. Yup. Anarchy is retarded.
Robbery? Why would I rob from someone who is willing to give me what I want for free?
The subject of what to do with any rapist and murderers is up for debate. I just suggest self defense, and in the event that any one person is a threat to the community, then the community must act in self defense.
But when you look at the reasons for rape murder and robbery, almost all causes of these crimes would be severley cut down on during any big social revoltuion.
If anything, western culture is a breeding ground for criminals. Where any Commune based on social independence and economic co-operation will be a breeding ground for peace and freedom.
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Anarchy is a completely unfeasible notion. Anarchy itself would eventually turn into another government. It is unable to sustain itself.
How so? What event will create this government, and why is there no way to avoid this?
Good statement though. But please elaborate.
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It\'s true that there hasn\'t always been a government, but there has been leadership, and a lot of people tend to follow some sort of authoritative figure. There always needs to be a set of rules and guidelines for humans to co-exist. For the Native Americans, there was a Chief, and there were the hunters, and food gatherers, and clothes makers. Everyone in a society plays a vary important role, and it applies to most cultures. Anarchy to me seems somewhat hypocritical in that some of these ideas would need to be implemented or everyone would go nowhere fast. *head hurts* I can\'t think right now...
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It\'s true that there hasn\'t always been a government, but there has been leadership, and a lot of people tend to follow some sort of authoritative figure. There always needs to be a set of rules and guidelines for humans to co-exist. For the Native Americans, there was a Chief, and there were the hunters, and food gatherers, and clothes makers. Everyone in a society plays a vary important role, and it applies to most cultures. Anarchy to me seems somewhat hypocritical in that some of these ideas would need to be implemented or everyone would go nowhere fast. *head hurts* I can\'t think right now...
I agree with mostly everything you said, up untill that last point. What ideas specifically are you talking about?
Yep, guidelines are what will be established. Not by any governing body, just by general social feel. And everyone will have their place, that is the real beauty of it.
For example, the community i\'d be looking for in such a society (if it does ever exist...) would proceed as follows:
General guidlines: No murder. No Rape.
Economically, everyone could pursue interests of their own while participating in community stability.
For example, if art was my thing... I\'d go to a man who makes paint brushes and I\'d say "Sir, may I have a paint brush" and he would give me one.
I would also perhaps grow some apples, the paint brush maker who so generously gave me my paint brush might need some apples. So I would gladly give him some apples.
I don\'t think there needs to be a chief though, I think the community as a whole can fill the leadership role. Everyone working together, it is a good roll model.
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!!!!
There HAS always been government. Just not always in the sense that we see it today. Even in our humble beginnings we had a family system of rule. When villages started popping up more advanced governments evolved along with the tribe. People HAVE ALWAYS been governed. It\'s a simple matter of the weak needing to be led by the strong. (I hope that last sentenced pissed at least one person off)
Getting past the whole definition rant...You simply can\'t make anarchy work. It\'s a utopian dream. The only way one can make something like that work is by having people with a perfect moral compass. I\'m sorry, but you will not find that in a small group of people, let alone an entire society. People take advantage of people. It\'s how we "succeed". You can\'t give me an example of a society in which everone coexists equally and fairly. Oh and your anarchy speech reeks of communism.
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There HAS always been government. Just not always in the sense that we see it today. Even in our humble beginnings we had a family system of rule. When villages started popping up more advanced governments evolved along with the tribe. People HAVE ALWAYS been governed. It\'s a simple matter of the weak needing to be led by the strong. (I hope that last sentenced pissed at least one person off)
There has always been structure, not government. Government is a form of structure, but it is not the only form of structure.
For the rest of your post, without quoting specific points, I understand your argument and I am not in complete disagreement with you. I understand that Anarchy is an idealistc goal, but I feel that it is achievable.
Eh, perhaps it is impossible and unrealistic. But I see no historical evidence that shows that small communitys cannot survive without rule.
You can\'t give me an example of a society in which everone coexists equally and fairly
Even in the free society that I am proposing, their will still be bad people. I am not saying everything will be happy-dandy perfect. But perhaps, there will be a very very large decrease in rape and murder.
What is to stop this from happening? Why can\'t a whole town of people co-operate and be friendly?
Who is going to stop it?
I\'m assuming you mean the Murder and Rapists?
There are many ideas on how to stop these acts from occouring... none of which I specifically agree with.
I\'m more in the favor of just doing nothing that resembles punishment or revenge. I\'m firmly in belief that a better social climate, co-operation, and love will destroy 99% of crime. Combine that with self-defense, and crime is nearly eliminated.
But the whole murder/rape thing is the one area im unsettled on, and I\'m open to new ideas.
Edit: Oh, and I support voluntary communism. Just as I support any voluntary form of economy for that matter.
But me, personally, I like a "gift-Economy" Which is basically communism, just on a more local level.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
I agree with mostly everything you said, up untill that last point. What ideas specifically are you talking about?
Yep, guidelines are what will be established. Not by any governing body, just by general social feel. And everyone will have their place, that is the real beauty of it.
For example, the community i\'d be looking for in such a society (if it does ever exist...) would proceed as follows:
General guidlines: No murder. No Rape.
Economically, everyone could pursue interests of their own while participating in community stability.
For example, if art was my thing... I\'d go to a man who makes paint brushes and I\'d say "Sir, may I have a paint brush" and he would give me one.
I would also perhaps grow some apples, the paint brush maker who so generously gave me my paint brush might need some apples. So I would gladly give him some apples.
I don\'t think there needs to be a chief though, I think the community as a whole can fill the leadership role. Everyone working together, it is a good roll model.
Um, everything you said is what our entire monetary system is based on.
You give him money because you don\'t have shit the paint brush guy needs. He can then take that money and buy what he wants since you suck and have nothing better to offer him.
The rape and murder thing, well yeah. We can\'t have any of that.
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DH, Anarchy would not work in the US. Maybe a small country but come on, a country of 250 million members? There definitely would be chaos. Drug lords and mafia would rule the country, gang violence would be horrific. And no, I don\'t have faith in humanity. Humanity will destroy itself.
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Well humanity is arleady destroying itself constantly, but Anarchy is a much more fun way to do it, if nothing else. :)
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You give him money because you don\'t have shit the paint brush guy needs. He can then take that money and buy what he wants since you suck and have nothing better to offer him.
Right, but this would be direct exchange, you would be working for yourself, not working to gain excess capital, and not working to create excess for your boss.
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One day, humanity will destroy itself but hopefully not when I\'m living or my children are living.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Right, but this would be direct exchange, you would be working for yourself, not working to gain excess capital, and not working to create excess for your boss.
OK, then what if all you know how to do is grow spinach? You\'re pretty much fucked.
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It isn\'t really based on demand, as it isn\'t really a "trade" of items.
It is more like, if your willing to give away your spinach, then someone will be willing to give you their apples.
It isn\'t about actually trading, more, availability of items when desired.
It is sooooo idealistic, I know.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Oh and by the way, I\'d be very happy to have a debate with you on wether or not Anarchy is "Stupid" if you give me atleast one refrence point to why you disagree with it.
Okay, fine. I\'ll flesh out just why I think anarchy is something I never want to experience.
It has to start by my admission that I am happy. Right now. I don\'t have everything I want, but I know that with hard work and perserverance, I can get it.
That said, part of my happiness stems from the fact that my life is pretty easy. I work two jobs, something I don\'t consider very difficult. I have a new car (necessitating the second job), and I\'ve paid off half of it in merely four months. I live in a nice neighborhood. I can drive my car on nice roads, shop in nice places, visit parks, download music, and do it all with the knowledge that there are police, fire & rescue, and military, brave people all, out there to protect me and save me if I need it. There are advanced medical facilities to heal my hurts. There is an immense infrastructure of electricity, sewage, transportation, water, and food, all of which ensures I will be well-fed, comfortable and sanitary. I\'ll soon be getting loans and grants to return to school, educate myself, and further increase my stardards of living. I want to be a novelist, and I want people to read my work, love it, and, in the end, pay me. I would like to live a life of modest affluence. I want to raise a family. I want to marry my girlfriend and have children and raise them in a safe and stable society.
Without government, with the ridiculous, romanticized notions of ananrchy, I would have none of that. I would probably be some buckfuck subsistence farmer, sharing everything I personally don\'t need. There would be no infrastructure, no security, no innovation, no life. I would merely be a totally lifeless piece of some really fucked-up machine. I would be able to accomplish nothing. My life would therefore be of no value to me or anyone else. My existense would be totally devoted to slaving to ensure I had enough to eat, and protecting my life, because no one else will do it for me. It means that I can never have anything I am incapable of producing on my own.
Frankly, I don\'t think there\'s one single redeeming quality to the idea of anarchy. The whole idea is foolish, and flies in the face of human nature, which is one of competition and innovation. It would never, ever work, because we are social creatures, and when society exists, hierarchies are formed, and from hierarchies comes authority and then government. And as long as one human can find another, there will always be society. The idea of anarchy is impossible for humans. It is a stucture for the mindless, like worker ants or bees. They need no control because they have no mind or will of their own to need controlling.
I want no part of that.
I hope I\'ve made my case understood. I\'ll be glad to elaborate if need be.
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^^^^^^
Everything you just said, times ten. You managed to say everything I was thinking, but couldn\'t possibly articulate into coherent sentences.
+100 ;)
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
How so? What event will create this government, and why is there no way to avoid this?
If our society were to spiral into anarchy those with the resources would have control. Anarchy by definition is the abscense of law and authority. Even a communal society with an unspoken set of rules is not an anarchy.
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Anarchy = fall of Rome. The next few centuries were called The Dark Ages.
If yer into lawlessness, pillaging and plundering, then anarchy is for you. :)
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Hmmmmm okay, well the last couple posts made all very good points.
BS, yes that is definantly a problem with the theory of Anarchism.
I\'m willing to admit that I do not have the knowledge of the subject to debate you on the point of "Resources" because I have raised that same point before.
My interest in the Anarchist movement is more along the lines of social change. I\'m not sure if the social change that I\'m looking for can come about in a large capitalist nation, but maybe it can.
First step in doing that would be to get the government to just focus on foreign issues, economic issues, and just leave the social issues alone.
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Anarchy has nothing to do with social change. It has to do with removal of governmental authority. Of course, when applied in real-world situations, there is always social change that goes along with the onset of anarchy. And none of it is ever good change.
I don\'t really think anarchy is what you\'re really about. I think most anarchists, including yourself, are much more proponents of the ideal form of communism. Based on what you say your ideal society would be, it makes more sense. Ideal communism is one with one social class, and no central government. Some call it a social utopia. I loathe the idea personally, and though it has been attempted many times, it without fail becomes the communism we all know, which is really totalitarianism. Because as Black Samurai said, even if the whole idea of equality were applied and central control were severed, some people are still going to have more resources and power than others, and some will always desire. Thus, you get totalitarianism.
True Communism will never, ever exist. Marx\'s ideas are a failure. Humans will never be able to completely stifle their desires to compete and succeed enough en masse for it to even have a hope.
And as I stated above, I would never want to live in the \'perfect\' communism, because it is a life that would never allow for improvement and innovation. Humans achieve and discover for many reasons. Desire for wealth, fame, power all augment every desire for mere improvement. As long as that is a part of human nature, Communism is never going to work.
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You people do realize of course that being in the military and serving your country is still no matter what you say a choice right? The problem is not choice is seeing past the choices we make.
U bunch of man loving homos..
Sits back and read another verse of his bible.
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Eh, I\'m hesitant to use the word Communism because it implys a state-enforced type of economy, which is definatly not what i\'m looking for.
Anarchy has nothing to do with social change.
I don\'t believe that is true, Anarchism is all about social change. Most Anarchists that I talked too really keep things on a local level, not literally over-throwing the government, and any movement on a local level will ultimatley result in social change.
I do not believe that any form of Anarchist-Society will result from rebellion, it is all about just opening areas previously un-opened in western culture, not neccicarly creating mini-capitalist-states (which IMO would be a lot more destructive then one big state.)
And on your final point, Humans can still achieve and discover without creating the type of society we live in now. Community\'s can work together for a group-improvement, which can be just as satisfying as individual improvement. But it all depends on what the people want.
The way things are now, it is very difficult to stray off the path and not be homeless. The state controls most education that is affordable, and the corporations are so powerful that if you were to try and create your own buisness where profits are actually given to the workers (instead of being kept in bulk by rich owners), you would be operating in the red constantly because it is imposible to compete with corporations without paying your workers less then they deserve.
We like to precieve are society as being open and tolerant, but this is really not the case. Religious morals still dominate the social and political domains, and acting spontanously is certainly fround upon. People lose their lives in the whole mess, school to college to work to death, and by the time your old enough to retire what will you have left? I mean, I guess the whole "rat-race" thing is just what some people want... I\'m gathering that you yourself are quite content with it, but a lot of other people including myself see it as a system that keeps people disconected from themselves and infact, other people as well.
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Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
neccicarly
fround
Your education system has failed.
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It isn\'t my system.
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Then who\'s is it?
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I didn\'t teach myself how to spell, that is all I meant. :P
But really, I believe getting into a debate over my spelling would be pretty silly! :)
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yeh, it wood be prty badd two deabit it, huh? Just kidding ;)
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both d.h. and weltall made some extremely good points...just goes to show that no system is perfect...but if i had a choice i\'d have to go with the system that is in place currently..as broken as it is already...s**t just look at the social security situation...by 2042 the system will be in the red and our children will be pretty much screwed as far as that\'s concerned....the problem?..and bush stated this out of his mouth..."there just isn\'t enough people WORKING to contribute to social security"
i say that because awhile ago i stated i was bein outsourced on my job...and this reflects what the president very well knows what is goin on here...s**t if you\'re layin off people and sending jobs over seas...then yea you\'re not gonna have enough people contributing to the soc security acct....it baffles me me that the prez and others know this yet big business has the final say...
i\'ve always stated that those in congress today are doing nothing but gettin their money now and leaving problems for our children in the future...i wonder what the economy is really gonna be like 50 yrs from now....damn did i take this off topic a bit?
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Well......I stopped reading about half way through page 4 so if I restate some things im sorry.
Anarchy is impossible, plain and simple. People in the world will always desire power, and there will always be people who will follow them. It\'s part of human nature. Someone will gain strength then take power by force, and there would be no stopping them. And DH u said something about there would be no robbing because people would give away things for free.......what are you talking about? How many people do you know that would give stuff away for free? And when that person says no, whats stopping the other from just taking it? And whats stopping the person being stolen from from killing the other person? Nothing! Without a system of control over the people the world would be in CHAOS, this is proven during the middle ages incase you wanted an example. When Rome fell, power was scattered and the governments became very weak. Human Beings took a step back in evolution and lost knowledge. People got dirtier and disease spread. Do you really think that human beings as a whole can support eachother without some laws or rules set in place? It\'s just impossible. Oh and DH, what part of this country is affecting you so much that you hate it?
Anarchy is pointless, theres no argument there! Anarchy will only lead to chaos, and chaos will only lead to death. With anarchy people will have no goals, therefor technology will stop because nobody will strive to make it better.
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err.....just read a little farther and my best point IMO the fall of rome=anarchy and chaos AKA Dark Age as well as everythng else was alreayd said :(
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Originally posted by Titan
This just proves to me that you don\'t know jack shit about the military. First off, if you sign the papers and enter the military and go to college at the same time, they pay for FULL college tuition. The catch? You spend 5 years in the military, that\'s it. Secondly, you won\'t get shipped to Iraq during the time you are in college. There is a rule in the military that if you are getting an education at a college, you cannot be called into active service. Do your research next time.
You sure about what your saying. I know when I was thinking of joining they told me I would have do my 5 years before I could even go too school.