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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => PS3 Discussion => Topic started by: Seed_Of_Evil on January 25, 2005, 12:46:04 AM

Title: Future is here
Post by: Seed_Of_Evil on January 25, 2005, 12:46:04 AM
Though this movie is 8 months old, it is quite impressive to watch what is waiting for us. Tell me what you think.

Unreal graphic environment for next generation videoconsoles and PC graphic cards (http://download.beyondunreal.com/get.php/1/demos/unreal3engine_e3.zip)
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 25, 2005, 01:38:09 AM
Yes, this video is very impressive. It\'ll be cool to see how they\'ll implement this engine with next-gen console hardware.
Title: Future is here
Post by: mm on January 25, 2005, 04:48:10 AM
File Date: May 15 2004

sheesh, the future was here over 8 months ago
Title: Future is here
Post by: §ôµÏG®ïñD on January 25, 2005, 05:22:57 AM
hey mm, i wish i was as cool as you.


"looks up to mm"
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 25, 2005, 10:41:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mm
File Date: May 15 2004

sheesh, the future was here over 8 months ago
Dude...he says that in his post...you\'re the one who\'s a little late this time :rolleyes: The video is old, but the technology is going to be implemented into next-gen technology on both consoles and PCs. This is still the future...
Title: Future is here
Post by: Titan on January 25, 2005, 03:21:51 PM
One day, that wooden board shall come out of mm\'s ass ;)
Title: Future is here
Post by: videoholic on January 25, 2005, 04:24:29 PM
Has mm had a legitimate post in the past year?
Title: Future is here
Post by: juslight on January 25, 2005, 04:47:17 PM
So is this what we should expect out of the PS3?
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 25, 2005, 04:56:05 PM
Yes, we can expect graphics like this on next-gen consoles, but definitely not at the resolution they\'re using to demo the engine [2048x2048].
Title: Future is here
Post by: Blade on January 25, 2005, 06:22:31 PM
It is old as a presentation, but still impressive as the technology won\'t be used in an actual game until 2006.
Title: Future is here
Post by: videoholic on January 25, 2005, 06:46:19 PM
Damn.  My computer has a tough time with the 2d graphics of this website.
Title: Future is here
Post by: juslight on January 25, 2005, 07:47:46 PM
There should be some freaky games released in the near future.  The lighting effects and area fog will be great for Silent-Hill-type games.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Black Samurai on January 26, 2005, 11:56:36 AM
I can\'t wait until the next-gen hype machine starts rolling.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Lord Nicon on January 26, 2005, 05:46:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Black Samurai
I can\'t wait until the next-gen hype machine starts rolling.

And i cant wait to fall into it.

Seriously. Despite the PS2 hype, i wasnt sorely dissapointed.

I hope this gen isnt an exception.
Title: Future is here
Post by: GmanJoe on January 27, 2005, 08:43:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Titan
One day, that wooden board shall come out of mm\'s ass ;)


I stuck a lump of coal in mm\'s ass and the next day, he was really upset with me. Then he pulled a diamond out of his ass and felt slightly better. He thinks we\'re engaged now. What a homo.
Title: Future is here
Post by: §ôµÏG®ïñD on January 27, 2005, 08:50:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Blade
It is old as a presentation, but still impressive as the technology won\'t be used in an actual game until 2006.


more like 3rd - 4th quarter this year.  The whole point to that engine is its using tricks rather then rendering shit loads of polygons. I personally see this type of graphics being used within the next year.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 27, 2005, 10:46:08 AM
Yeah, that\'s the thing, and with this kind of technology, they\'ll be able to have boatloads of insanely high-quality characters running around on screen [I\'ve heard around 100+]. They take a low-poly character, and a few million poly mesh, and then the engine takes the difference of the 2 that creates a low-poly character with INSANELY high detail. It\'s good stuff ;)

Here\'s a few sample characters [that you\'ve probably seen already]:

http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/p_beast.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/p_bezerker.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/p_soldier.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/SoftShadows.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/DynamicLight.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/HDRGlow.jpg
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/Spec_Wall.jpg

And again, these are relatively low poly-count creatures [8-10 thousand]. Obviously there\'s a few edges here and there, but if they used a higher poly character to mesh over, then we\'ll be seeing much less of that. It all depends on how awesome the developers want the characters to look ;) The surroundings use the same exact methods as the design for the characters.

If you haven\'t seen the video, and you have a crappy connection, then you suck!! :p
Title: Future is here
Post by: Knotter8 on January 27, 2005, 01:16:56 PM
..........Yet they step into the same age old pifalls when showing of new tech ;

- monster\'s which\' design depend on zbrush dino skin and mechanic exoskeleton armour

- highly Gothic themed environments and buildings.

This is more or less all the things which Doom3 did wrong as well.

I\'d rather see them showing off how convincing (or not)  that engine can be when it has to do current day realistic environments and open air day light (without the gothic clouds)  like HL2\'s.

I would also wanna see more advanced effects like smoke, fog and translucencies.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 27, 2005, 01:30:36 PM
The reason it has the same theme is because they\'re demoing the Unreal game. Some companies have already signed on to use the UE3.0 for their next-gen games [for consoles]. It\'s not about what they\'re showing in the video, it\'s the technology behind it. Not every game that\'s going to be made with this engine is going to be "gothic" themed, or have creatures in metallic armor, and whatnot. That\'s only for their next game in development.

You\'ll see this technology being implemented in all different types of games.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Knotter8 on January 27, 2005, 01:42:23 PM
Sorry, but I disagree.

Like on a date ; first impression = key.

Right now, Half Life 2\'s matte radiosity realistic looking world is HOT.
This is also the case in the CG world ; HDRI and radiosity softshadows

This Unreal 3 content is imho step 2 of Doom 3 and Riddick\'s plastic fantastic worlds.

Realistic themed environments and characters are the best way to \'measure\' the potential of the tech. Why ?
Becuz ppl know reality they can identify with it and anything which looks less or other than realistic falls outside of \'measurement perimeter\' ; in this case the sci fi monsters and extreme gothic architecture.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 27, 2005, 01:46:19 PM
We just simply haven\'t seen enough of this engine used in a variety of games. It\'s potential is what I\'m really concerned with.

But I agree with you on the Half-Life thing. I\'d like to see an upgrade to that engine. The facial expressions they display are simply amazing, as well as the physics.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 31, 2005, 12:21:18 PM
@ Knotter...here\'s some incredible game shots of "Gears of War"...a next-gen game using the Unreal Engine 3.0:

(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faaron.rebelpacket.net%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fold_stuff%2Fgow2.jpg&hash=78737f3aafc0b4d12089223f44f613e0d5b409d7)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faaron.rebelpacket.net%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fold_stuff%2Fgow3.jpg&hash=6eee4477683600433c62024a2d6c56a3ef23dde1)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faaron.rebelpacket.net%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fold_stuff%2Fgow6.jpg&hash=14ca803f1e02b3de8b6ccac4314690d576e8024e)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faaron.rebelpacket.net%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fold_stuff%2Fgow7.jpg&hash=faec0f6dda52b7597cad8172284545432a76d2e7)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faaron.rebelpacket.net%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fold_stuff%2Fgow8.jpg&hash=ed0eb43672071d94a60f0bc01c76ea1f2afbac89)(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faaron.rebelpacket.net%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fold_stuff%2Fgow10.jpg&hash=1c5f5a5f309aefab9d69d21df862aa629f29a440)

Some of the environments give the game a much better feel. Not so enclosed in the gothic building environments.
Title: Future is here
Post by: §ôµÏG®ïñD on January 31, 2005, 01:37:41 PM
It looks good enough for me, as long as its REAL time, i doubt there would be much difference between a gothic world and a nice grassy plain etc.  In the end the textures probably take up the same amount of space, the polys are probably very close to each other in amount used and the lighting/shadow effects would probably be pretty much the same too........


in simple words.  Same shit, different smell.

As long as its realtime, it looks great to me.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 31, 2005, 07:20:53 PM
I\'m hearing from a friend who works at Microsoft that he\'s actually seen an Xbox 2 game in development that looks significantly better than this. And since the PS3 is supposedly going to be more powerful than the Xbox 2, that\'s very good news. And yes...it will look like those pics in real-time.
Title: Future is here
Post by: DeAnna on January 31, 2005, 07:38:08 PM
Are PS3\'s going to end up costing like 400 dollars??
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 31, 2005, 09:03:18 PM
200-400 dollars is a good estimate. No game console is cheap upon its first release. It won\'t be out until mid to late 2006 in the US, and if you can\'t save enough money by then, well...that\'s just sad. ;) It\'s really a bargain, considering how much power you\'ll be getting out of the thing.
Title: Future is here
Post by: seven on January 31, 2005, 10:27:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by EviscerationX
I\'m hearing from a friend who works at Microsoft that he\'s actually seen an Xbox 2 game in development that looks significantly better than this. And since the PS3 is supposedly going to be more powerful than the Xbox 2, that\'s very good news. And yes...it will look like those pics in real-time.



tell your friend they better make sure it\'s running at 60 fps by default this time... It\'s already bad enough 30 fps is widely accepted on Xbox - which is laughable considering it should be the easiest and most powerful to develop for. :rolleyes:

[/rant]
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on January 31, 2005, 10:32:08 PM
Ijust cant wait to see the next gen Tech Demos :)
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on January 31, 2005, 10:55:02 PM
Quote
tell your friend they better make sure it\'s running at 60 fps by default this time... It\'s already bad enough 30 fps is widely accepted on Xbox - which is laughable considering it should be the easiest and most powerful to develop for.
I highly doubt we\'ll be seeing 30FPS ever again. This hardware is WAY more powerful than people are fathoming. The Unreal Demo was being showcased on an NVIDIA 6800, and the Xbox 2 will have much greater power than that [and even moreso for the PS3]. We\'re gonna see some great games next-gen.
Quote
Ijust cant wait to see the next gen Tech Demos

Word. Actually, they\'ll probably have some playable games at E3. Sony may only have tech demos [but we\'ll see]. Still, I love tech demos. :)
Title: Future is here
Post by: seven on February 01, 2005, 10:27:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by EviscerationX
I highly doubt we\'ll be seeing 30FPS ever again. This hardware is WAY more powerful than people are fathoming. The Unreal Demo was being showcased on an NVIDIA 6800, and the Xbox 2 will have much greater power than that [and even moreso for the PS3]. We\'re gonna see some great games next-gen.


...and yet, framerate isn\'t dependant on hardware. Framerate is by design-choice. Hardware ranging back to early 90ties was capable of doing 60 fps - even a vast majority of cutting-edge PS2 games feature 60 fps - something the Xbox, an arguably more powerful piece of hardware, is seriously lacking in.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on February 01, 2005, 03:23:53 PM
Well if developers "choose" to have 30FPS in their games next-gen, then they are just morons.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 01, 2005, 06:45:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by seven
...and yet, framerate isn\'t dependant on hardware. Framerate is by design-choice. Hardware ranging back to early 90ties was capable of doing 60 fps - even a vast majority of cutting-edge PS2 games feature 60 fps - something the Xbox, an arguably more powerful piece of hardware, is seriously lacking in.


Yeah but we certaintly get more detail in textures, effects and higher polygon models instead.
Ninja Gaiden though certaintly shows all that at 60 fps
Title: Future is here
Post by: §ôµÏG®ïñD on February 01, 2005, 07:06:48 PM
Ehh, the point of the U3 tech demos is to show that more can be done then using high poly counts. They\'re making so shit all polys are used, but it looks as if more are being used.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 01, 2005, 07:18:46 PM
I wasnt refering to the U3 engine
Title: Future is here
Post by: §ôµÏG®ïñD on February 01, 2005, 09:00:14 PM
I know, my point is developers are moving towards "tricks" not having high poly counts for games. You\'ll find that all developers will end up following suit.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on February 01, 2005, 10:22:24 PM
They\'re not just using "tricks." That\'s a big part of it. But because they don\'t have to heavily rely on large polygon counts, they can focus more on the internal aspects of characters, such as bones.
Quote
Characters

For every major character and static mesh asset, we build two versions of the geometry: a renderable mesh with unique UV coordinates, and a detail mesh containing only geometry. We run the two meshes through the Unreal Engine 3 preprocessing tool and generate a high-res normal map for the renderable mesh, based on analyzing all of the geometry in the detail mesh.

    * Renderable Mesh: We build renderable meshes with 3,000-12,000 triangles, based on the expectation of 5-20 visible characters in a game scene.
    * Bones: Our characters typically have 100-200 bones, and include articulated faces, hands, and fingers.

Animation

    * Skeletal animation system supporting up to 4 bone influences per vertex and very complex skeletons.
    * Animation is driven by a tree of animation objects including:
          o Blend controllers, performing an n-way blend between nested animation objects.
          o Data-driven controllers, encapsulating motion capture or hand animation data.
          o Physics controllers, tying into the rigid body dynamics engine for ragdoll player and NPC animation and physical response to impulses.
          o Procedural animation controllers, implemented in C++ or UnrealScript, for game features such as having an NPC\'s head and eyes track a player walking through the level, or having a character animate differently based on health level and fatigue.
    * Export tools for 3D Studio Max, Maya for bringing weighted meshes, skeletons, and animation sequences into the engine.

Physics

    * Rigid body physics system supporting player interaction with physical game object, ragdoll character animation, complex vehicles, and dismemberable objects.
    * All renderable materials have physical properties such as friction.
    * Physics-driven sound.
    * Fully integrated support for physics-based vehicles, including player control, AI, and networking.
    * Visual physics modeling tool built into UnrealEd, supporting creation of optimized collision primitives for models and skeletal animated meshes; constraint editing; and interactive physics simulation and tweaking in-editor.
[/color]
You can see all the mumbo jumbo crap here: http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 02, 2005, 02:59:47 AM
"Physics driven sound"?
First time hear about such a thing.What does it mean?For example an object that resembles metal will sound like metal according to the interaction it has with another object?Like generate the sound instead of predefining certain kinds sounds?
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on February 02, 2005, 01:51:40 PM
^^^^^^

I have no clue, but that sounds like a reasonable guess.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Black Samurai on February 02, 2005, 02:52:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Unicron!
"Physics driven sound"?
First time hear about such a thing.What does it mean?For example an object that resembles metal will sound like metal according to the interaction it has with another object?Like generate the sound instead of predefining certain kinds sounds?
If I were to venture a guess I would say that sound waves would travel normally instead of sound being constrained to "bubbles". Like the engine would take into account the surface of a wall/ceiling to determine how far a sound should travel(among other things.)

I think I remember a preview for Deus Ex 2 where they were talking about something like that.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 03, 2005, 05:33:56 AM
I am discussing about the Unreal3 engine with someone and he believes that thses graphics are not impressive and that RESI4 looks miles better.Jesus.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Lord Nicon on February 03, 2005, 04:22:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Unicron!
I am discussing about the Unreal3 engine with someone and he believes that thses graphics are not impressive and that RESI4 looks miles better.Jesus.

Im sure EThugg would agree :p
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on February 03, 2005, 04:52:06 PM
Quote
I am discussing about the Unreal3 engine with someone and he believes that thses graphics are not impressive and that RESI4 looks miles better.Jesus.

Your "acquaintance" is a moron.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 03, 2005, 09:30:37 PM
Thats what I say too.I even compared two pics to show the difference and he still sais the same.He even brought up as an arguement the Baranka render(remember the first pic  from MKD that wasnt even real time?) in the discussion that it looked better. :laughing:
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on February 03, 2005, 10:42:45 PM
He needs to see the video then, and you need to kick him in the face with some steel-toed work boots.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 03, 2005, 11:06:07 PM
:laughing:
Title: Future is here
Post by: seven on February 05, 2005, 08:59:48 AM
you know, in one thing I do agree:

RE4\'s art >>>>>>> anything epic\'s ever put out

;)
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 06, 2005, 06:28:50 AM
True that.But I would have agreed with him if we were discussing about the art dirtection of the game.
Title: Future is here
Post by: unknown on February 21, 2005, 09:52:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DeAnna
Are PS3\'s going to end up costing like 400 dollars??


Hell yes it\'s gonna cost that much... Ok PS1 was 300 when it was first released, PS2 was 300 when it was first released and now the PS3 will be released with a shitload better graphics etc. etc.

One thing I learned "especially from the PSP" is that sony will milk this SOB for everything it\'s got. It\'s gonna be $400-500 off the bat.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on February 21, 2005, 10:16:52 AM
no reason to worry about I believe.Always the high launch cost is something only Japanese face.
It will be around $600-700 in Japan and until it reaches the US release it will be around $350.
That was the case with PS2 as well.And it was one hell of an expensive piece of hardware.I remember Sony losing millions when the first PS2s were sold without enough games sold to cover the high cost of production of the hardware.

Sony has losses in their plan agenda already.They are targeting a launch price that is up to consumer standards compared to previous product releases even if they lose money for some period of time
Title: Future is here
Post by: Jah on March 09, 2005, 06:19:02 AM
They all do in the beginning right?
Title: Future is here
Post by: Bobs_Hardware on March 09, 2005, 06:34:11 AM
Why so confident about the price? There\'s going to be 3 major consoles all launching around the same time.. if the PS3 is $100-200+ more expensive than the competition, that\'s suicide.

I can see maybe $400, but with some major game/accessory bundles.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on March 09, 2005, 09:21:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Jah
They all do in the beginning right?


the point is that no matter the cost of production they will target a competitive price
Title: Future is here
Post by: Ginko on March 09, 2005, 12:58:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Unicron!
the point is that no matter the cost of production they will target a competitive price


They will find a competitive price but the cost of production determines that price.  Sony can\'t just piss PS3\'s into the wind.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Evi on March 09, 2005, 05:14:18 PM
Quote
Sony can\'t just piss PS3\'s into the wind.

What about piss? Can they piss piss into the wind?

I\'m sure Sony will lose money on their first few million consoles until production costs go down. It takes money to make money.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on March 09, 2005, 05:47:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ginko
They will find a competitive price but the cost of production determines that price.  Sony can\'t just piss PS3\'s into the wind.


what Evi said.Manufacturing costs will go down later
Title: Future is here
Post by: Ginko on March 10, 2005, 08:52:46 AM
Jesus christ, we already had this discussion in the debate forum...

There is no way that Sony, or anyone else for that matter, can throw whatever they want into the PS3 and sell it at $300.  They, like all the other console makers, must find a balance of cost and performance.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Unicron! on March 10, 2005, 10:52:08 AM
Nobody said that.But since they have some control over their hardware most likely it will be modified for lest manufacturing costs.
Launch in Japan is usually $600
And as I said before they are probably trying to find alternative solutions to effective hardware that need less manufacturing cocts to get produced.
This balance isnt based just in the present.They take into consideration long term results as well.
If the hardware is bound to get cheaper sooner they wont mind producing a more expensive piece of hardware now.
Especially if demand is excesively high then this will set a higher but balanced price.
Title: Future is here
Post by: Lord Nicon on March 10, 2005, 04:55:15 PM
What was the last major Ameican release that saw consoles priced over 300$? Seriously, they know what they are getting into more or less. I highly doubt we\'ll see prices higher than 4 big ones.