PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Ginko on February 28, 2005, 01:59:51 PM
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I\'m sure you guys are aware that Sony plans to officially announce and unveil their next console before the end of March. Rumor now has it that Microsoft will do the same. With the official announcements there\'s probably going to be more talk amongst developers on the specifics of the console. What do you think we\'ll find out?
Sony will announce the PS3 and it\'s going to be the most powerful of all the new consoles, however it will also be recognized as the most difficult to develop for though this won\'t hinder the development community one bit. Why do I think it will be the most powerful? Sony has experience with hardware, more so than MS and Nintendo anyway, and they\'ve poured mountains of cash into Cell development so I don\'t doubt its power, but I doubt it will be the next coming of console gaming.
I also believe that Sony will announce some kind of online service similar to Live. Sony will own when it comes to a good looking console and they will announce a Spring 2006 launch in Japan with a US launch in the Fall.
Microsoft will announce their next console, probably named Xbox 360, and announce it will launch this November, both in the US and Europe, in two forms. One with an HD and one without. They might outline some improvements to be made with the Live service as well as some additions. The console will be powerful, and I believe very comparable to PS3, but will be slightly less capable. (think PS2 vs. Xbox visuals now) I fear it will not be backwards compatible and they will stick with DVD as the format in an effort to keep costs down.
Nintendo will wait until E3 and few will care whatever it is Nintendo came up with for their next gen console. Nintendo might mention their next Gameboy depending on how well the PSP is received.
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I speculate than Itagaki-san will make at least one inflammatory comment about the competition this year.
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What about Reggie?:D
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I believe we are going to see a few tech demos from famous games just like PS2\'s tech demos
PS3 will be the most powerful but Sony wont show all their cards.They will keep some specifications secret from the competition.
I also dont see any reason for PS3 being hard to develop for.We already saw some OpenGL colaborations and Nvidia colaborations with Sony to make development easier.I mostly see hard to exploit its full performance since it would be too powerful and it will need more time to get there.Thus said the results from the performance developers can get the first year it will blow away what will be seen in XBOX2.
On the other hand XBOX2 will show some surprise support from japanese developers and XNA demonstrations for it.i really dont know what to predict for XBOX2
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Thus said the results from the performance developers can get the first year it will blow away what will be seen in XBOX2.
You do know Sony has to sell this thing at around $300, right? I think it will be able to do some things Xbox 2 can\'t but blow it away? Nope.
Besides, it will be 3-4 years before we see what the systems are really capable of.
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Well.I sure do see a cell processor which is almost finalized and manufacturing costs could fall.
PS2 was also very expensive.Not just because it was powerful.it was new in architecture as well.Sony always loses money with each console when its launched.And we are talking about huge loses.PS2 was also sold in a loss.
Sony is trying to find alternative solutions.They are not relying on current hardware patents but on newer more effective.
As for the last paragraph its irrelevant
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The massive power of the new systems combined with tricks like "normal mapping" should make for some immersive realistic worlds.
I am really looking forward to the pre-launch photos, tech demos and other hype.
I started coming to this website when the screenshots for the PS2 were being released.
You know, like HALO and Munch\'s Odyssey.
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I am predicting now that the new Xbox console will be the most powerful and one of the easiest to develop for. I think this next generation Sony/MS will be on some SNES/Genesis stuff with each one going back and forth for the lead. Sony will overtake MS near the end of the generation when they are both looking ahead to the NEXT next generation.
Also the Nintendo console will have more power than the PS3 and be easier to develop for than both MS and Sony\'s consoles but will have some wonky controller/console issue that scares everyone but 1st/2nd party developers away.
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As far as I know, the Genesis was ALWAYS leading the SNes.. it wasn\'t until a year or two after Sega stopped supporting the Genny (throwing it\'s efforts into the Saturn) that the Snes overtook it..
Regardless, I agree with Ginko..
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I think with a sleek and easy to develop console MS can gain huge ground. I am not going to say which console will be most powerful because the graphics are always simular amoungst all the consoles.
What I wanna know is what the ps3 controller will look like. I don\'t think sony has the balls to change it. I use to love the design of the Dual shock. I enjoy using the the xbox controller more now. I don\'t seem to like the two joysticks been side by side on the dual shock.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
As far as I know, the Genesis was ALWAYS leading the SNes.. it wasn\'t until a year or two after Sega stopped supporting the Genny (throwing it\'s efforts into the Saturn) that the Snes overtook it..
Regardless, I agree with Ginko..
Well, both Genesis and SNES have great games on them. One have games that the other system doesn\'t have.
But I think SNES some games that I like more than Genesis such as Final Fantasy series which I never played before until FFVII on PSX.
Most games are usually on both format, snes and genesis. but i found snes to have better graphic and sound.
But you are right about Genesis having a slightly upper hands, especially in america. Maybe like you said, Sega screw up big times by introducing new system every one or two years thats consumers couldn\'t keep up with it. Like the Sega CD add-on, then Sega 32x, and finally a true upgrade of Sega Saturn that just killed it. hard to program and its expensive when compare to psx.
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SACRILIGE BOBO! THE PROPER NAME IS MEGADRIVE!!! WHATS WITH YOU YANKING IT UP WITH "Genisis"!! Ugh..
But yes, I think the new Nintendo machine might get a few strange looks from the general public, given what they\'ve said so far. I\'m going to agree with Ginko too. But we don\'t really know Nintendo\'s plans, so I reserve the right to change my position once I get more information. :p
I would also like to add that Microsoft will adopt an aggressive strategy to sign up, acquire or otherwise secure loyal developers for it\'s new Xbox.
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Originally posted by Paul2
...... and finally a true upgrade of Sega Saturn that just killed it. hard to program and its expensive when compare to psx.
Are you talking about the unreleased upgrade
that was supposed to turn Saturn into a Model 3 console?Black belt or something it was called?
Or the extra RAM memory you put on the Memory Card slot that was used by some games only?
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I\'m going to go WAY out on a limb and predict that Nintendo\'s new console will be designed with some sort of party-style multiplayer "maybe VR glasses?" where players gather around the console instead of the TV.
Just a guess.
It seems like all of the console companies are keeping their cards to themselves and putting on their poker faces. Apparently, the next Xbox is going to be released before this year is over?
I think some people will still wait for Sony\'s PS3. I know I will.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Well.I sure do see a cell processor which is almost finalized and manufacturing costs could fall.
Sony is trying to find alternative solutions.They are not relying on current hardware patents but on newer more effective.
Every console ever made is sold at a loss initially, but you are kidding yourself if you think Sony is going to sell a $1000 machine for $300 as an example.
The cell chip is scalable, it\'s meant for all kinds of things ranging from a toaster to a super computer. Depending on the function there will be different variants of the cell. If you think the PS3 will get the top of line cell, what\'s been shown recently, then you are living in a dream world.
PS2 was also very expensive.Not just because it was powerful.it was new in architecture as well.Sony always loses money with each console when its launched.And we are talking about huge loses.PS2 was also sold in a loss.
You make it sound as if MS won\'t do the same...MS screwed up with the Xbox because they bought off the shelf parts and made a horrible deal with Nvidia. That\'s not the case this time.
Also, Nvidia and ATi are building the GPU\'s on these next generation machines, both of which are at the top of their game. I don\'t think there will be significant amounts of difference between the visuals of each console unless there is a serious oversight concerning other components of the system.
As for the last paragraph its irrelevant
Hardly irrelevant, that\'s when we\'ll see what the machines can really do. Until then everyone will still be figuring them out.
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if it will be one of the worst to program for look at the Atari Jaguar........what happened to it...........forgotten....I hope the PS3 doesnt suffer the same fate..........
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Originally posted by Ginko
Every console ever made is sold at a loss initially, but you are kidding yourself if you think Sony is going to sell a $1000 machine for $300 as an example.
I didnt try to say any details about the specs since I dont know.I just make speculations.Also you forgot the alternative solutions part and the probable decrease in expected manufacturing costs
The cell chip is scalable, it\'s meant for all kinds of things ranging from a toaster to a super computer. Depending on the function there will be different variants of the cell. If you think the PS3 will get the top of line cell, what\'s been shown recently, then you are living in a dream world.
Did I say how much better PS3 will be from XBOX2?Did I say how much it will blow away XBOX2?
You can also say that Ninja Gaiden has blown away anything seen on PS2 as well.But does it say much?
You are taking my speculations way too seriously
You make it sound as if MS won\'t do the same...MS screwed up with the Xbox because they bought off the shelf parts and made a horrible deal with Nvidia. That\'s not the case this time.
I didnt make it sound like that.Thats your own assumption.I didnt mention anything about XBOX2 compared to PS3 costs.Lets forget that MS even exists for now.Since Sony has some control over its hardware usually they find ways of simplifying the manufacturing of the hardware.PS2 has changed lots of times its interior stracture of the EE and GS.
So I thing there is a possibility that Sony already predicts huge costs that will be temporal and costs will be reduced later
Then again what I say is just speculation
Also, Nvidia and ATi are building the GPU\'s on these next generation machines, both of which are at the top of their game. I don\'t think there will be significant amounts of difference between the visuals of each console unless there is a serious oversight concerning other components of the system.
Good point.But my expectations on PS3 is also based on the Cell processor on which Sony has spend lots of millions on R&D.Lets not forget that Sony and Nvidia have been colaorating for some years too.
Its the combinations of the Cell and this colaboration that raises my expectations.On the other hand we dont know much about XBOX2.Thats why speculation on XBOX2 is scarce and thats why I have less expactations about i.Because there isnt much information released anyways to have expectations
Hardly irrelevant, that\'s when we\'ll see what the machines can really do. Until then everyone will still be figuring them out.
Irrelevant since I was refering to the early life of the consoles and also if you consider that I believe that PS3 will be the most powerful then it doesnt matter how much more developers can get from performance after some years.Still the most powerful will feature better graphics.
If we talked about each console separately then ok.
There is no point trying to convince me.We are speculating anyways.Anything can happen.We are talking about ghost facts
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Are you talking about the unreleased upgrade
that was supposed to turn Saturn into a Model 3 console?Black belt or something it was called?
Or the extra RAM memory you put on the Memory Card slot that was used by some games only?
Not really, i was saying from going Sega Genesis to Sega Saturn. But if you means these model 3 and the extra Ram which I believe are add-ons. Then I guess those have something to do with its death too...
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oh ok :)
The add on that was supposed to transform the Saturn from a Model2 into a Model3 wasnt released at the end.Thank God ofcourse.
Although I think Saturn was going to die anyways I agree that the extra ram cardridge would have helped the Saturn to the worse
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My speculations :
- MS Xbox 2 | tech will depend mostly again on raw power/speed with \'off the shelf\' components. In the endcomparison of overall hardware specs I think Xbox2 will be \'weakest\', even though it sports a nice Ati gpu.
However, I think MS is gonna try to set a firm foot in Japan with XNA for Japanese devs. So, I think MS is gonna put emphasis on winning developer support.
- Nintendo Revolution | a true wildcard.
NGC has known both high peaks and low lows. I expect the unexpected from Nintendo ; for real.
I guess their focus will be on re-evaluating what gamers of today and tomorrow really want.
Technically i think it\'ll wind up a bit more powerfull than Xbox2.
- Sony PS3 | It will not get the 4 cell units ( PPE\'s was it called, right ? ) but 2 instead to keep within budget. It\'s power will be comparable to that of the other consoles, just maybe a bit more flexible to code for.
PS3\'s \'power\' however will imo come from the Nvidia collaboration for both gpu and development tools. Back then, devs complained about the PS2\'s VRAM and the Geforce FX series was Nvidia\'s little farce.
I think both Sony and Nvidia have been very hard at work to set that straight. So, whereas the PS2\'s graphics synthesizer was PS2\'s weak point I think the PS3\'s gpu and dev tools will be it\'s strong points. They\'ll make sure devs will love it.
To conclude ; MS will gain support in Japan but with the weakest of next gen consoles, Nintendo has a huge opportunity here and i cannot imagine they haven\'t learned a thing from the NGC lifetime.
PS3 will feature the best dev tools and a feature rich Nvidia gpu, while Ati\'s contribution will be more or less \'off the shelf\' gpu. The wildcard will be Mr. Miyamoto ; what tricks has he up his sleeve ?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
.Also you forgot the alternative solutions part and the probable decrease in expected manufacturing costs
I assumed you\'d get that since I said they are sold at a loss initially.
Did I say how much better PS3 will be from XBOX2?Did I say how much it will blow away XBOX2?
You can also say that Ninja Gaiden has blown away anything seen on PS2 as well.But does it say much?
You are taking my speculations way too seriously
We obviously have different interpertations of "blow away"...Ninja Gaiden is very nice looking but it hardly "blows away" the PS2. Is there a noticeable difference? Yes, but it hardly makes the PS2 irrelavent.
I didnt make it sound like that.Thats your own assumption.I didnt mention anything about XBOX2 compared to PS3 costs.Lets forget that MS even exists for now.Since Sony has some control over its hardware usually they find ways of simplifying the manufacturing of the hardware.PS2 has changed lots of times its interior stracture of the EE and GS.
So I thing there is a possibility that Sony already predicts huge costs that will be temporal and costs will be reduced later
Then again what I say is just speculation
I know it will be sold at a loss and I know Sony has the advantage when it comes to hardware manufacturing costs, but I also know that they can\'t just throw whatever they want into the console and sell it for $300.
Good point.But my expectations on PS3 is also based on the Cell processor on which Sony has spend lots of millions on R&D.Lets not forget that Sony and Nvidia have been colaorating for some years too.
You don\'t think ATi has been spending mountains of money on R&D on their next generation graphics cards? I can only assume they would like to keep in step with what Nvidia are doing. MS is simply buying into the that technology.
Irrelevant since I was refering to the early life of the consoles and also if you consider that I believe that PS3 will be the most powerful then it doesnt matter how much more developers can get from performance after some years.Still the most powerful will feature better graphics.
If we talked about each console separately then ok.
I don\'t think we\'ll see half of what any of them are capable of, including getting the one up on each other, during the first year or two since the system launches are so close to each other. That\'s what I was getting at.
There is no point trying to convince me.We are speculating anyways.Anything can happen.We are talking about ghost facts
True.
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Originally posted by Knotter8
PS3 will feature the best dev tools and a feature rich Nvidia gpu, while Ati\'s contribution will be more or less \'off the shelf\' gpu. The wildcard will be Mr. Miyamoto ; what tricks has he up his sleeve ?
The ATI Graphics card is being custom built for the Xbox 2, it\'s their next generation R500 card (once referred to as R400), not to be confused with the R520 which is still of the R320 line. Sometime after the Xbox 2 launches ATi will then launch a customized version for the PC, named R600, both based on the same technology.
Nintendo\'s day are numbered, imo. I haven\'t heard of any 3rd party developers, those having already announced projects for Xbox 2 and PS3, speak about the Revolution. Namely Tecmo, EA, or Sega. I know that\'s only three developers but I have a feeling it will be the same story from many more...
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Originally posted by Knotter8
To conclude ; MS will gain support in Japan but with the weakest of next gen consoles, Nintendo has a huge opportunity here and i cannot imagine they haven\'t learned a thing from the NGC lifetime.
PS3 will feature the best dev tools and a feature rich Nvidia gpu, while Ati\'s contribution will be more or less \'off the shelf\' gpu. The wildcard will be Mr. Miyamoto ; what tricks has he up his sleeve ?
I just can\'t see Xbox2 being the weakest console and PS2 having the best development tools. The Xbox is going to use XNA which a developer friend of mine(worked on Freedom Force for PC) said is EXTREMELY developer friendly. I definately see developers going for ease of use and power over potential.
Microsoft is focusing on better software(the hardware will be there) while Sony is focusing on newer hardware(which initially will be at the expense of software)
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Well, imo MS is going the Sega way... as for being a console maker; early adopters style. Usually this means their, still impressive hardware, will be the weakest when all 3 consoles are in stores. DC was, compared to PS2, also very dev friendly ; now compare a DC game to MGS3 or GT4.....
Of course there\'s the big difference that MS has way better marketing strategies than Sega and some actual cash to back up the campaign.
Also, Nvidia has worked together for years with Sony on the Cell-to-gpu system and especially the development tools. Realtime graphics will grow more and more towards 3D apps like 3DsMax and Maya ; Nvidia is very very strong there with their Quadro cards and dcc OpenGL tools. Yes, they kinda crush ATi\'s FireGL\'s there. Thus Nvidia\'s expertise in that highpoly and visual FX workfield will benefit PS3 development.
Then there\'s Rambus\' XDR memory ; via PS3, Nvidia gets expierence creating a gpu design based on XDR memory. This is high speed bandwidth is probably mucho priority for Nvidia for their next gen pc gpu\'s as well. The anand tech article on Rambus XDR & Flexphase is interesting ; pretty much makes it probable for PS3 to be a console no bigger than PS2 and with good heat dissipation. Nvidia\'s next gen based videocards might not be as big and powerconsuming as current NV40\'s anymore thanks to Rambus\' innovations.
Rambus XDR & Flexphase article (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2341)
Ati, btw, has to do work for both Nintendo and MS. I can\'t see those 2 agreeing they have the same gpu. Since Ati already has their hands full on their own pc card production (Nvidia doesn\'t actually make videocards). So.... Ati has to make 2 different off the shelf gpu\'s for these consoles, basically different versions of their next pc card.
So, yeah I can easily see Nvidia providing topnotch effort to make PS3 a both powerfull and developer friendly console. Of course , I respect anyones\' opinion if they think Sony wants to have the developer whining of early PS2 games on repeat :rolleyes:
The only thing that could possibly hold PS3 back is the amount of Cell processors in PS3, due to costs. For it\'s potential it\'s gotta have at least 2 of those cores
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Well, imo MS is going the Sega way... as for being a console maker; early adopters style. Usually this means their, still impressive hardware, will be the weakest when all 3 consoles are in stores. DC was, compared to PS2, also very dev friendly ; now compare a DC game to MGS3 or GT4.....
Of course there\'s the big difference that MS has way better marketing strategies than Sega and some actual cash to back up the campaign.
The DC launched a full year (maybe more) than the PS2, this is probably not the case this time. Rumors are indicating a March \'06 launch for PS3 in Japan, just four months after the Xbox 2 lands in the US. I doubt there will be a significant stride in technology given those four months. If the PS3 is pushed back then I might give it a second thought.
Ati, btw, has to do work for both Nintendo and MS. I can\'t see those 2 agreeing they have the same gpu. Since Ati already has their hands full on their own pc card production (Nvidia doesn\'t actually make videocards). So.... Ati has to make 2 different off the shelf gpu\'s for these consoles, basically different versions of their next pc card.
They have two different teams working on the consoles, inside reports say they have little to nothing to do with each other.