PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Ginko on March 17, 2005, 08:22:05 PM
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In the same form as the other IGN thread, but this time the editors give their opinion on the technology. Again, I\'ve only pulled out a few quotes, to get the whole story please read the article.
These are guys who report on the industry so I\'m inclined to listen...
>>>Link<<< (http://ps2.ign.com/articles/596/596670p1.html)
The questions:
What kind of technology do you think the PS3 will have when it\'s announced? Do you think it\'ll be enough to surpass the Xbox 2 and Revolution? And What features does it absolutely need to be #1 in the market?
I\'m going to go out on a limb here and speculate that PlayStation 3 will be at least one billion times more powerful than the next Xbox. At least. But probably closer to five billion times more powerful. Because I\'m speculating, there are no bounds to what I say, but it also doesn\'t matter anyway.
Technology? Who cares?
Oh right, everyone except me. Actually, I am excited to see next-generation games, but I don\'t really care about guessing what sort of hardware they\'re going to run on. Dual ten zillion gigafartz processors? 1024 megs of HAM? These boring details only have a chance at being interesting once they\'re actually final, and even then I\'m way more interested in seeing the actual games. If I\'m going to speculate on their hardware before Sony utters a peep, I\'m just going to go crazy (as evidenced above) because I really, really don\'t care.
(But please call me quick when Konami shows off Zone of the Enders 3 on PS3. That will crack my stone face of indifference into a warm smile.)
--Mark Ryan Sallee, Editor, IGN Guides
I\'m expecting good graphics, very good graphics, but all I really want to ask for right now is some broadband support right away. And I want some real online support this time, too. We need some sort of Live-type service coming from Sony where it\'s possible to see others online if they\'re not playing the exact same game and in the exact same room at the time.
We\'ve had promises of a "Cyberworld" and been told to look out for micropayments. If this cyberworld means playing with my buddies in New York and being able to download hot new levels for a buck a pop, then I\'m down. Just make it smooth.
--Ed Lewis, Editor, IGNPS2
Dan Adams, Editor-in-Chief, IGNPC
Does it have an EasyBake Oven? If it doesn\'t then I don\'t want it.
Ivan Sulic, Editor, IGNPS2
Okay, let\'s get a few things straight here... Mark, shut up. Har! Seriously though, I think your vague implication that hardware is hardly relevant so long as quality titles come from talented developers is inane, since hardware is exactly what allows talented developers to make quality titles (as a general rule). Sure, exceptions like MGS are boss on failing silicon, but what if some more powerful platform were the lead SKU for stellar games of the type? While I do agree that arguing specific FLOPS and bits and gigatexels is hardly worth the time, I can understand and appreciate how important the technology behind the next generation is, since the technology is exactly what determines the face of the next-generation.
While we\'re on the line, I\'ll bet good money that PS3 will not be noticeably superior to Xbox-Whatever-the-Nuts. And, even if it were, we\'d hardly know it. I offer up three main reasons to support this assertion.
1) Anonymous AAA developers I\'ve spoken to all concur that the next-generation of platforms will be comparable in performance -- seems like they\'d be the ones to know.
2) Even if the systems are not comparable, Microsoft has a leg up with its standardized DX / XNA development environments. This means that everything developers have learned over the past 10 years creating games on PC and Xbox will almost immediately apply to the more accessible Xbox-Please-Give-Me-An-Official-Name-That-Doesn\'t-Suck-Butt successor. Basically, on Day One we could conceivably have the technical equivalent of 2nd to 3rd generation games, since developers should theoretically already be familiar with what\'s being offered. Thus, even if PS3 is marginally more powerful, those games built on X2 to compete with its launch might still rival them technically.
3) The nature and cost of technology does not allow for such a significant leap in performance in such a short window of time. PS3 is rumored to be no more than one year away from Xbox 2 launch. A year is not enough time to allow for the revolutionary advancements some people are hoping for, especially when the basic PS3 specifications are already being pinned down.
Uh... What else were we talking about?
Oh yeah! What do I want out of PS3 hardware at launch? I want...
Instant wireless compatibility with PSP.
Packed in wireless controllers.
Full HD support (1080i / p, 720p).
Full 8.1 audio.
Mandatory HD and 8.1 audio support.
And graphics that make me want to abuse my system...sexually.
I don\'t know what other questions we have to answer, but I\'d like to add that Dan is masquerading as Dan, and so qualifies for no fifteen minute cupcakes.
--Ivan Sulic, Editor, IGNPS2
The very best games this generation have been on the PlayStation 2 and the Game Boy Advance, the two technologically weakest systems of the four main platforms. Sure, new hardware will definitely allow developers to dabble in new concepts, but I\'m interested in those concepts and games, not the hardware behind them.
--Mark Ryan
Well, I have to disagree with Ivan. Every developer I\'ve talked to has indicated that PlayStation 3 is considerably more powerful than the successor to Xbox. Studios say that PS3\'s CPU runs circles around the Xbox chipset. Just totally demolishes it. However, Xenon\'s GPU is supposedly marginally more powerful than PS3\'s -- at least at this point. Devs say it\'s not going to matter much in the end regardless because so much can be done with the CPU. But anyway...
I\'m not sure that we\'ll be able to tell a major difference right off the bat. I expect that the first generation of PlayStation 3 games will in many cases simply be slightly more polished Xenon ports. I think that -- since PS3 is once more going to be a bitch to develop for -- we won\'t really start to see this thing shine until it has a couple of years under its belt. And then, yes, I absolutely think you\'ll be able to tell a difference.
People made the same argument -- that these machines would all balance out in the end -- for this generation. But I don\'t see PS2 spitting out normal-mapped games like Chronicles of Riddick on Xbox. Because it can\'t. There\'s going to come a point -- and I\'d wager the gap will be bigger -- when the successor to Xbox won\'t be able to do what developers can pull of on PlayStation 3.
It\'ll be interesting to watch how that plays out, especially since Microsoft made a name for Xbox in many ways because it was the most powerful console. Anybody who thinks Xenon is going to again rule the throne in technology is just plain dreaming.
What do I want out of my PS3? Well, I\'m a tech nut, so everything sounds nice. Give me full 720p and 1080i support in games. Give me fully high-def Blu-ray movies. Dolby Digital 5.1 or better, yes. Wireless controllers. Memory Stick support. UMD support. And beyond that, pure power, which it seems like PS3 will have. Big processing. Big bandwidth. A rumored 512MBs of RAM -- twice that of Xenon. And lots of hardware based features.
--Matt Casamassina, Editor-in-Chief, IGN Cube
Ivan Sulic
Copy-burgler! My ideas are not good and you know it, so don\'t copy, copy-jerk!
Seriously though, that\'s actually a little weird, Matt. I honestly haven\'t heard from anyone that PS3 whoops Xbox Whatever (and I\'ve spoken to a lot of folks, though I doubt they\'d like me to name them here). What I did once hear was how the PS2 could be used to render Jurassic Park and Star Wars in real-time!
Basically, I remember Microsoft being super honest with me about what it had with the original Xbox and developers being just as candid. I also remember Sony saying a lot silly things about Emotion and missile guidance systems with PS2 and developers saying, "I can\'t get no damn anti-aliasing." I\'m not keen on trusting the hype machine twice. Every X2 developer I know says the system is solid and the next-generation of gaming will be so similar it won\'t even matter. I got to trust that...for now at least.
--Ivan Sulic
There\'s more, you\'ll have to read it for yourself.
"The nature and cost of technology does not allow for such a significant leap in performance in such a short window of time. PS3 is rumored to be no more than one year away from Xbox 2 launch. A year is not enough time to allow for the revolutionary advancements some people are hoping for, especially when the basic PS3 specifications are already being pinned down."
Does that look familiar to any of you browsing the other thread? I\'ll just have to keep that to cut and paste from now on.
I want:
HD resolution
Wi-Fi out of the box
Blu-Ray player (and I hope it becomes the new standard in the mean time)
Wireless controllers
Hard Drive
On-line service like Live with the whole Marketplace type set up
Oh, and some new games from the people at Insomniac Games and Naughty Dog. I just love them:)
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One year cant do anything? Bah. Im not arguing on that topic.
Oh yeah! What do I want out of PS3 hardware at launch? I want...
Instant wireless compatibility with PSP.
Packed in wireless controllers.
Full HD support (1080i / p, 720p).
Full 8.1 audio.
Mandatory HD and 8.1 audio support.
And graphics that make me want to abuse my system...sexually.
Thats right.
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One of two things is going on with Matt Casamassina.
1) His frustration with Nintendo has pushed him into the open arms of Sony/MS
2) He is trying to keep his expectations EXTREMELY low for the Revolution so that if it is at all decent he becomes pleasantly surprised.
That dude used to be one of the biggest Nintendo fans in existence.
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They are all opinions and there is also someone who sais that the difference between the PS3 and XBOX2 will be very noticable.
None of these statements mean anything
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^The consoles of every generation have been comparable. If history repeats itself, and it usually does, then I think those people expecting a godsend of difference from either side are going to be disappointed.
*shrugs
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They\'re full of it !
Also, lets keep it to PS3 speculation, ok ?
Ok, we have :
- developers having a DECADE of PS2 emotion engine coding expierence.
- Nvidia succeeding Toshiba as the main developer for PS3\'s GPU and graphics developer library
- Rambus with their Xdram and FlexO routing tech.
Those 3, are imo very important items for PS3.
Developers won\'t face an ultra steep learning curve anymore becuz Cell tech is in line with EE development at which most developers have become quite savvy.
In any case they have Nvidia onboard who have years of expierence in graphics development tools (OpenGL & Cg language) for PS3\'s GPU. As console graphics approach CGi more and more this is a huge benefit over Ati who can\'t get their OpenGL and Linux stuff straight. Nvidia\'s very very strong at Maya, 3DsMax and the likes of Dcc software.
Really, for Nvidia this as an opportunity to punch Ati 6 foot under, becuz this round of consoles will be testing ground for the next generation of high end PC GPU\'s. Nvidia\'s commitment to PS3 is like a sniper waiting all these years after the Geforce FX debacle to get even. NV40 is just only the beginning of regaining the graphics \'crown\'. ( very happy with my 6800GT, btw )
For Rambus this is also a major comeback opportunity with their XDRam tech. Thanx to the FlexO technology they can keep the routings on the PCB uneven in length thus it won\'t need a big PCB. I\'ll bet Nvidia\'s keen on this stuff becuz if they can get Xdram for their next gen PC GPU\'s that\'ll be the end of huge and hot Nvidia pc gpu\'s.
The Cell technology stands or falls by the number of the cell units which make it into PS3 so that\'s the only wildcard element for PS3 imo.
Sure, Xenon will be very nice and very good, but imho PS3\'ll be phenomenal.:bounce:
(of course, if i claim PS2 can rival Xbox graphics most\'ll say i\'m insane... so same rules maybe apply to Xenon vs PS3...)
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One year cant do anything? Bah. Im not arguing on that topic.
Heh, where did you read that?
The resounding and almost synomynous opinion is that one year can\'t bring about a "revolution" in technology. Differences, better hardware, more graphic goodies? Yes, look at the GC and Xbox. That was a year and a half, however that doesn\'t look to me like it was enough time to trample the PS2.
Originally posted by Knotter8
Really, for Nvidia this as an opportunity to punch Ati 6 foot under, becuz this round of consoles will be testing ground for the next generation of high end PC GPU\'s. Nvidia\'s commitment to PS3 is like a sniper waiting all these years after the Geforce FX debacle to get even. NV40 is just only the beginning of regaining the graphics \'crown\'. ( very happy with my 6800GT, btw )
I suppose if you think ATi has been sitting on their asses for past few years then yeah, Nvidia will be dA-ub3R-mEG@ p0werFULL and K1ng!
(of course, if i claim PS2 can rival Xbox graphics most\'ll say i\'m insane... so same rules maybe apply to Xenon vs PS3...)
I\'d say it makes more sense than some people here.
What is the big difference between Xbox and PS2? I\'m not talking about the little graphic tricks, I\'m asking what of the two consoles sets them apart as to declare one a "phenomenal" victor?
I own all three consoles and even though the GC and Xbox are 18 months newer I don\'t see their games graphically or otherwise demolishing my PS2 games.
Why do YOU think that is?
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IGN is gay.
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I\'m going to go out on a limb here and speculate that PlayStation 3 will be at least one billion times more powerful than the next Xbox.
:laughing:
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An impressive Cell article which makes more sense than any of IGN\'s babble :
@ anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=1)
:thepimp:
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamepro.com%2Fsony%2Fps2%2Fgames%2Fnews%2Fimages%2F43608-2.jpg&hash=36e1a6d2111643c4ce19302e1632d36519734961)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamepro.com%2Fsony%2Fps2%2Fgames%2Fnews%2Fimages%2F43608-1.jpg&hash=3c2915bfff684afb7f480194293d6d591c66baf5)
Allegedly stolen from an E3 brochure.
:sconf:
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well, it\'s very hard to tell the dimensions of it
but im very impressed
(although i think it\'s fake)
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Mmm..
And I thought they were trying to swerve away from the numbering system?
Assuming that that thing was real, would that mean that all the controllers are wireless?
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so if this is legit, it looks like you can play psp games on this thing too?
it looks kinda like a projector
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While it looks small and compact. It just looks completely stupid. I hope the ps3 looks nothing like that.
I am hoping for something simular to current smaller ps2.
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i think its fake since it said UMD because I believe ps3 may support backward compatible with ps2 and psOne games but UMD is only 6 cm....while psOne and ps2 games mostly used 12 cm disc.
i don\'t like the design either. Looks weird...so, very likely its fake.
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looks weird and cool at the same time.But not the looks I expected from a console.
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looks like a pencil sharpener....
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Also there are no controller ports. And it says wireless on the console. Sony has never said wireless pads would be the standard on ps3
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Originally posted by Paul2
i think its fake since it said UMD because I believe ps3 may support backward compatible with ps2 and psOne games but UMD is only 6 cm....while psOne and ps2 games mostly used 12 cm disc.
i don\'t like the design either. Looks weird...so, very likely its fake.
If you didn\'t notice, it has slots for both UMD discs and regulard sized 12cm discs (blu-ray, DVD, CD). I\'m not entirely sold on the fact that this is legit, but there is a little twinge deep down inside that tells me this may be the real deal.
time will tell
you can also see rubber feet for the option to stand it vertical like with the ps2. And looks like a switch on the back for power, just like the ps2.
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Kind of an awkward, albeit strong design.. if real.
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Also there are no controller ports. And it says wireless on the console. Sony has never said wireless pads would be the standard on ps3
I d be happy if it offers the choise to the consumer to use either wireless or not :)
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Well it looks very real and my first impression was "WTF? Its so... oddly ugly.... yet so.... interesting." Its been maybe a minute but it doesnt look too bad now.
A few things that suggest that its not real (from what i can see) are the lack of details we\'ve gotten on the link between ps3 and psp (although it makes perfect sense. I think the psp would benefit more from it than the ps3 at this point.) and the eject and power lights dont seem to have any buttons (it could be remote controlled but it seems stupid to have an eject light in that case).
Also, the scans arent the same size. If its coming from an "e3 booklet" then it would make sense that they would be the same size (though this seems more like an argument that it isnt from a booklet more than this isnt ps3).
The reflections and the copyright look real though and if this isnt what ps3 is going to look like then im pretty secure in saying that its an official mock up.
I could always be wrong though.
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There is also only one memory card slot.If that\'s the size of only onememory card slot the size of the whole thing is ery small.Unless if two memory cards are fit in that hole
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why would you need more than one memory card slot though? I bet the new memory cards are gonna have a lot more storage than 8 MB (they better).
I would imagine controller ports are on the back, just like the PSX released a little bit ago.
I\'m thinking more and more that this is a fake
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VF4 evo GT series and Tekken5 for example are taking advandage of the two mem card slot feature.Like taking your car/status/character over a friends house and compete with his.
Also it lets you copy from a friends mem card to yours.
Not to mention that its safe to keep two mem cards since sometimes one of them mught get erased.Its good to have backups.
I personally keep finished games in one mem card and unfinished in another.And sometimes I keep my saves in one mem card while my sisters saves of the same game are kept in the other.There is no fear that one might overwrite the other ones save
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what unicorn said,
with 2 memory cards, you can copy and paste it to the 2nd one.
and of course, with two memory card like ps2, you can insert slot 1 ps2 memory card and slot 2 psOne memory card...
But hopefully, ps3 will save games in built in hard disk drive and one can send it to external storage..shrugs...
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"Well, I have to disagree with Ivan. Every developer I\'ve talked to has indicated that PlayStation 3 is considerably more powerful than the successor to Xbox. Studios say that PS3\'s CPU runs circles around the Xbox chipset. Just totally demolishes it. However, Xenon\'s GPU is supposedly marginally more powerful than PS3\'s"
IGN is full of shit as always. The PS3 GPU is not even finished and none of the current devkits has the final PS3 GPU in it. According to one developer they are developing with a beefed up 6800 Ultra in mind because they don\'t know the final specs of the PS3 GPU.
And also the Nvidia GPU will have longer development time than Xenon\'s since the PS3 is most likely to launch at least six months later. So it\'s way too early to tell anything about how powerful the GPUs will be compared to each other.
IGN don\'t know crap. They should stick to reviewing games because they know even less than me about hardware.
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Well, at least IGN\'s game review scores are marginally good compared to Gamespot\'s :mad:
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Wow, opinions are a funny thing, eh Knotter?
I couldn\'t read through IGN\'s drivel if I was forced to at gunpoint.
You know IGN is a website for homos! I heard somewhere that the G stands for Gay! Not sure what the other letters stand for but it\'s probably something equally gay!
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IGN
I..DIOTS..
G..AY..
N..ETWORK
IGN
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I knew it!
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I just hope PS3 uses Memory Stick Pro Duo för Memory cards, now when I have bought a 512MB I want to be able to use it with my PS3.
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Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Wow, opinions are a funny thing, eh Knotter?
I couldn\'t read through IGN\'s drivel if I was forced to at gunpoint.
You know IGN is a website for homos! I heard somewhere that the G stands for Gay! Not sure what the other letters stand for but it\'s probably something equally gay!
Hey, i never said IGN\'s stuff is great but Gamespot\'s Kasavin recently scored MGS3 and SplinterCell 3 a 8.7 and a 8.6 respectively. EA drivel gets into 9\'s on that Gamespot website. :rolleyes:
Yes, IGN have become money driven mainstream crap, but Gamespot (Kasavin) thinks it\'s the God of all gaming review sites.
Ontopic : I really urge you guys to read this extensive Cell article ;
@ anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=1)
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Newflash: All gaming sites suck now\'a\'days.
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Hey, i never said IGN\'s stuff is great but Gamespot\'s Kasavin recently scored MGS3 and SplinterCell 3 a 8.7 and a 8.6 respectively. EA drivel gets into 9\'s on that Gamespot website.
Opinions are a funny thing, eh?
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Ok, go and play mgs3 and sc3, then read Kasavin\'s reviews ;
This is not about opinions anymore. His arguments just aren\'t very good and he omits various keyfactors of those games\' gameplay which are key to their innovation.
A member of the SC board emailed him in reply to his SC3 review. That guy made a very decent and well argumented email with precise critiques why Kasavin\'s review didn\'t hold any ground. THAT is why Kasavin\'s reviews are beyond the excuse of opinion. His MGS3 review was fairly positive but that 8.7 score was a complete and utter mismatch to his reviewtext.
Want me to copy paste all the evidence ? It\'s quite a list, so don\'t hesitate to ask if you wanna do so.
Also, i thought the ground rule of gamesite reviews was to make well informed and well argumented articles about games. The whole essence of a \'review\' is being something more than just an opinion. If reviews were mere opinions than they wouldn\'t have to adhere to rules like \'gameplay\', \'graphics\', \'sound\' etc. These are all videogame trademark parameters which should be used with care in a review. As a Head Chief Editor of Gamespot, Kasavin\'s review do quite bad at those.
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They adhere to those paramenters to make it easier on the reader. It is impossible for it to be any more than an opinion. Just a highly publicised opinion.
And I\'m sure every reviewer has inconsistancies. btw, an 8.7 from Kasavin means he thoroughly enjoyed the game. Perhaps you\'re just used to IGN giving every mediocre game a 9.2.
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I hope that is not the real design.
Originally posted by Knotter8
An impressive Cell article which makes more sense than any of IGN\'s babble :
@ anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=1)
:thepimp:
The article is well written, however it doesn\'t give us any more insight than we had before concerning the PS3.
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The GPU isn\'t even finished yet, so any PS3 "tech" will suck ass at this point. And anandtech pwns IGN. IGN will be the LAST place I go to when official specifications are released.
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Well, if you read carefully, the coding for the PPE should be simple at high order level while the SPE\'s can be assigned to dedicated tasks.
I see lotsa guys raving about how XNA will outdo the PS3 dev libraries so much, but they\'re forgetting this core high order simplified Cell architecture and Nvidia\'s expertise at graphics development.
Of course, I\'ll never say Xbox2 won\'t be a great machine..
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Hey, i never said IGN\'s stuff is great but Gamespot\'s Kasavin recently scored MGS3 and SplinterCell 3 a 8.7 and a 8.6 respectively. EA drivel gets into 9\'s on that Gamespot website. :rolleyes:
An 8.7 for MGS3 sounds about right.
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Just because games are overly hyped doesn\'t mean they should all get perfect scores...
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Well, if you read carefully, the coding for the PPE should be simple at high order level while the SPE\'s can be assigned to dedicated tasks.
I see lotsa guys raving about how XNA will outdo the PS3 dev libraries so much, but they\'re forgetting this core high order simplified Cell architecture and Nvidia\'s expertise at graphics development.
I have a bridge to sell you. I don\'t have anything to show you, but I can tell you it should be a really good bridge.;)
Of course, I\'ll never say Xbox2 won\'t be a great machine..
Of course not, because that would be silly.
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Originally posted by Rikku
I have a bridge to sell you. I don\'t have anything to show you, but I can tell you it should be a really good bridge.;)
Of course not, because that would be silly.
Well, in modern society ppl think they\'re all evolved and sophisticated, but where it comes down to is that to most of them still applies the primal rule of \'seeing is believing\'.
The Anandtech article arguments show that the design philosophy is doing right now what Intel has on the roadmap 5 years in the future. In-order compile coding with a marginally simple to code for multitask cpu (PPE) and a boatload of SPE\'s which one can assign to dedicated tasks.
It makes sense. Of course, maybe I\'m the kind of person who lives to much in his head. :nerd:
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I\'d personally have given MGS3 a much higher score than 8.7, but that\'s me. Black Samurai, you\'re clearly an idiot and probably think that some EA games are actually good!!!
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Indeed. Kasavin\'s video review was really positive and showed enthusiasm. Then, the score shows up and it really doesn\'t \'match\' what he just said :confused:
About EA. That Larry Probst bastard (EA ceo) just saw his company stocks down 17 %. All of a sudden we see unvealings of EA games like The Godfather, Burnout Revenge and Batman Begins set in somewhat more realistic settings.
Also, I think EA\'s plan was to buy out lotsa dev studio\'s to have the biggest dev assets for next gen consoles like PS3.
If there\'s one BIG mistake that Sony could possibly make is to rely too much on EA games with the PS3 launch. That would suck.
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NOOOOOO
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There is no way that is what the PS3 will look like. I dont believe that they would do away with the use of wired controlers.
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Having lots of big EA games for launch would only be a good thing for Sony.
So long as there are plenty of alternatives, too.