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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Ace on May 17, 2005, 04:31:47 AM
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. . . or is it?
Another example of the left wing wanting to believe the worst of this government, military, and country. Lives have been lost and now Newsweek can join CBS in being a media joke.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050517/D8A4LSM02.html
May 16, 11:00 PM (ET)
By SETH SUTEL
(AP) A Muslim cleric speaks during a demonstration against the alleged desecration of Islam\'s holy book...
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NEW YORK (AP) - Newsweek magazine, under fire for publishing a story that led to deadly protests in Afghanistan, said Monday it was retracting its report that a military probe had found evidence of desecration of the Quran by U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay.
Earlier Monday, Bush administration officials had brushed off an apology that Newsweek\'s editor Mark Whitaker had made in an editor\'s note and criticized the magazine\'s handling of the story.
Protests broke out across much of the Muslim world last week after Newsweek reported that U.S. investigators found evidence that interrogators had flushed a copy of Muslim\'s holy book down a toilet in an attempt to rattle detainees. The violence left about 15 dead and scores injured in Afghanistan.
"It\'s appalling that this story got out there," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said as she traveled home from Iraq.
(AP) Pedestrians walk past the Broadway entrance to the Newsweek building Monday, May 16, 2005 in New...
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"People lost their lives. People are dead," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said on Capitol Hill. "People need to be very careful about what they say, just as they need to be careful about what they do."
Following the criticism, Whitaker released a statement through a spokesman later Monday saying the magazine was retracting the article.
"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Quran abuse at Guantanamo Bay," Whitaker said.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan called Newsweek\'s retraction "a good first step" but said it could not repair all the damage that had been done.
"The report had real consequences," McClellan said. "People have lost their lives. Our image abroad has been damaged. There are some who are opposed to the United States and what we stand for who have sought to exploit this allegation."
(AP) A pedestrian walks past the Broadway entrance to the Newsweek building Monday, May 16, 2005 in New...
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McClellan said the Pentagon had looked into the allegations initially and found nothing to substantiate them. "They continue to look into it," he said.
Newsweek had reported in its issue dated May 9 that U.S. military investigators had found evidence that interrogators placed copies of Islam\'s holy book in washrooms and had flushed one down the toilet to get inmates to talk.
Whitaker had written in a note to readers that "We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst."
Whitaker said in his note that while other news organizations had aired charges of Quran abuse based on the testimony of detainees, the magazine decided to publish a short item after hearing from an unnamed U.S. official that a government probe had found evidence corroborating the charges.
But on Friday, a top Pentagon spokesman told the magazine that a review of the military\'s investigation concluded "it was never meant to look into charges of Quran desecration."
The spokesman also said the Pentagon had looked into other charges by detainees that the Quran had been desecrated and found them to be "not credible."
Whitaker added that the magazine\'s original source later said he could not be sure he read about the alleged Quran incident in the report Newsweek cited, and that it might have been in another document. Whitaker said the magazine was still looking into the charges.
Many of the 520 inmates at Guantanamo are Muslims arrested during the U.S.-led war against the Taliban and its al-Qaida allies in Afghanistan.
In Afghanistan, Islamic scholars and tribal elders called for the punishment of anyone found to have abused the Quran, said Maulawi Abdul Wali Arshad, head of the religious affairs department in Badakhshan province.
Arshad and the provincial police chief said the scholars met in Faizabad, 310 miles northeast of the capital, Kabul, and demanded a "reaction" from U.S. authorities within three days.
Lebanon\'s most senior Shiite Muslim cleric on Sunday said the reported desecration of the Quran is part of an American campaign aimed at disrespecting and smearing Islam.
In a statement faxed to The Associated Press, Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah called the alleged desecration a "brutal" form of torture and urged Muslims and international human rights organizations "to raise their voices loudly against the American behavior."
On Saturday, Pakistan\'s President Gen. Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, both allies of Washington, demanded an investigation and punishment for those behind the reported desecration of the Quran.
The story also sparked protests in Pakistan, Yemen and the Gaza Strip. The 22-nation Arab League issued a statement saying if the allegations panned out, Washington should apologize to Muslims.
Newsweek is owned by The Washington Post Co. (WPO)
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That article was nothing more than an attack on the Bush Administration that caused unnecessary deaths.
With no valid sources the article shouldn\'t have been printed. This is how desperate and hateful the left has become - fabricating stories in order to damage Bush. These journalists are so eager to report negative things about the US government that they are not even checking sources or facts anymore.
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You\'re right. They take any bit of info that will make Bush or this country look like crap and they want to believe it so badly that they lose their senses and how to report a story.
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cripes bet they weren\'t expecting to cause such a stir.
15 people dead over one article!?
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Just goes to show how fanatical those people are. I mean, in addition to the fact that they are continually blowing themselves up.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
That article was nothing more than an attack on the Bush Administration that caused unnecessary deaths.
With no valid sources the article shouldn\'t have been printed. This is how desperate and hateful the left has become - fabricating stories in order to damage Bush. These journalists are so eager to report negative things about the US government that they are not even checking sources or facts anymore.
Alright, well if you want to talk about the credentials the press had in going ahead with this story then why was the article reviewed by the Pentagon before it was printed, given the go-ahead, and then only questioned 10 days after it was published?
If you want to talk conspiracy of the "left-wing" media, then what about the opposite side? Couldn\'t this just be another case of the administration cracking down and smearing the press to create a distrust in the only access the people have to their governments and deconstruct the watchdog effect of modern media?
I\'m not validating either of these debates, just bringing them up. I think you are simply grazing over this issue, taking it at face value.
It was sloppy journalism. It was sloppy handling by the Pentagon. But what it wasn\'t was a conniving and intentional attempt by the news media to "attack" the Bush administration (By the way Giga, I like how you capitalize Bush Administration...how godly.)
I\'m sick of criticism that modern news media is "liberal." What I think you and others who criticize today\'s newspapers for having a left-leaning slant need to understand is that newspapers are not intentionally trying to appear liberal, they are trying to be critical. That is on of the media\'s jobs -- to pick out what is wrong and what is corrupt in our government ...or in this case of Newsweek, at least try.
Newsweek did make a mistake but I do not believe it was aimed at starting violence nor was it an attack on the Repulican administration. Hell, one of the authors, Michael Isikoff, was crucial in investigating MonicaGate.
I\'d rather have a media "watch-dog" helping me understand and offer critisms of my government than pushing propaganda through my television screens.
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
Alright, well if you want to talk about the credentials the press had in going ahead with this story then why was the article reviewed by the Pentagon before it was printed, given the go-ahead, and then only questioned 10 days after it was published?
This isn\'t about the Pentagon. The Pentagon did not publish the article. It is about Newsweek. Nice way to try and shift blame away from this crappy rag.
Originally posted by Ghettomath
If you want to talk conspiracy of the "left-wing" media, then what about the opposite side? Couldn\'t this just be another case of the administration cracking down and smearing the press to create a distrust in the only access the people have to their governments and deconstruct the watchdog effect of modern media?
It is not a conspiracy theory, it is fact. CBS, the NYT and now Newsweek. As long as it makes our country look bad they will jump all over it regardless of the sources and the facts. No one is cracking down the media, despite your misguided belief, because if that were the case - CBS would have been off the air months ago. Watchdog... :laughing: My dog barks at things that aren\'t there as well.
Originally posted by Ghettomath
I\'m not validating either of these debates, just bringing them up. I think you are simply grazing over this issue, taking it at face value.
Grazing over what issue exactly? That Newsweek misreported the news?
Originally posted by Ghettomath
It was sloppy journalism. It was sloppy handling by the Pentagon. But what it wasn\'t was a conniving and intentional attempt by the news media to "attack" the Bush administration (By the way Giga, I like how you capitalize Bush Administration...how godly.)
Again, the Pentagon does not print a weekly news magazine, it is not their job. The running of the story was Newsweek\'s alone. I suppose Dan Rather\'s ficticious story on the Air National Guard wasn\'t an attack either? Hatred really does make you blind doesn\'t it ghetto? As for capitalizing it - that is the way its done for any President you moron.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Bush+administration
Originally posted by Ghettomath
I\'m sick of criticism that modern news media is "liberal." What I think you and others who criticize today\'s newspapers for having a left-leaning slant need to understand is that newspapers are not intentionally trying to appear liberal, they are trying to be critical. That is on of the media\'s jobs -- to pick out what is wrong and what is corrupt in our government ...or in this case of Newsweek, at least try.
It sucks to be on the outside looking in doesn\'t it Ghetto? Of course you are sick of the criticism of anything liberal because you ARE liberal.
Originally posted by Ghettomath
Newsweek did make a mistake but I do not believe it was aimed at starting violence nor was it an attack on the Repulican administration. Hell, one of the authors, Michael Isikoff, was crucial in investigating MonicaGate.
I\'d rather have a media "watch-dog" helping me understand and offer critisms of my government than pushing propaganda through my television screens.
No it wasn\'t aimed at starting violence, but in an attempt to make an anti Bush article an unforseen consequence developed which makes liberals look just like the asshats they are.
I agree with what Chizzy said as well, the loonies don\'t need any more reasons to kill people than they already have. Did Newsweek really think they were going to win some friends in the Middle East by reporting this garbage? I don\'t think they actually thought anyone over there would get wind of it, but again they miscalculated.
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Interesting that this is the fist I\'ve heard anyone mention Newsweek in about 5 years.
Oh, and the Jews run the media, everyone knows that.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Did Newsweek really think they were going to win some friends in the Middle East by reporting this garbage? I don\'t think they actually thought anyone over there would get wind of it, but again they miscalculated.
Where has this pre-conceived notion that the news media has alterior motives beside reporting the news come from Giga? I\'m just interested. When did newspapers become "liberal"
to you?
When Newsweek and the rest of news media report, they simply collect and relay information. What happened here was a confusion in the relaying in the information from an anonymous source and the reporter. I don\'t understand how you can construe this into liberalism.
AP rules dictate "a"dministration.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/05/obscenity.prosecutions.ap/
Also, president is never capitalized when it stands alone.
Can\'t keep God and President Bush separate, can you?
That\'s okay, neither can he.
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
Where has this pre-conceived notion that the news media has alterior motives beside reporting the news come from Giga? I\'m just interested. When did newspapers become "liberal" to you?
When Newsweek and the rest of news media report, they simply collect and relay information. What happened here was a confusion in the relaying in the information from an anonymous source and the reporter. I don\'t understand how you can construe this into liberalism.
Wow, maybe when the news reporters were in such a rush to slander this administration that they didn\'t even check their sources. I can\'t believe such lack of professionalism is being looked over this much.
Can\'t keep God and President Bush separate, can you?
Take off your blinders. Once you do so maybe you\'d realize Giga isn\'t even that religious. :rolleyes: You and mystiq would be great friends.
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Newsweek F\'d up. They trusted a source without independent verification, and some Islamic nutters on the other side of the planet went crazy. It was a bad call, and they should be more cautious about reporting on sensitive items like this that might have far reaching effects.
That\'s all well and good, and I think we all agree on that.
What I don\'t understand is Giga\'s reflexive assumption that this is an anti-Bush conspiracy concocted by some liberal media conspiracy. "Newsweek" is one of the blandest and most noncommittal news sources in the US. It\'s right up there (or down there) with USA Today and other colorless news outlets determined to tell the American public what it already knows and probably already agrees with. They are constantly running cover stories on topics spanning the gamut of Bush loving / red state / christian values / and stupid entertainment news. Damn, they are in a competiton with Time to see how often they can run a picture of a Jesus or some other bible character on the cover!
I\'m not attacking Newsweek, I\'m just trying to say they are FAR from being a liberal magazine. If you think they are, that is a very disturbing commentary on your skewed perspective of the world. You need to take your paranoid goggles off. Newsweek ran the story because they are interested in PROFIT. They want to somehow "scoop" their other bland news competitors, and increase their circulation. They are not grinding any axes for the Bush administration.
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Headline: Koran Flushed Down Toilet!
Yeah, I can see the $$$$ rolling in from that story. :rolleyes:
USA Today non biased? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh Core you are indeed a funny man.
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
Also, president is never capitalized when it stands alone.
Can\'t keep God and President Bush separate, can you?
That\'s okay, neither can he.
As Bozco said I am not religious. Try again.
Also admit you are wrong about Bush Administration or did you even bother to check google and the numerous references on there?
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All of this over a friggen book? Psh.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Also admit you are wrong about Bush Administration or did you even bother to check google and the numerous references on there?
As I previously posted, Associated Press standards use "a"dministration. Some papers do use Bush Adminstration though. So we are both correct. Sorry for nitpicking.
Whatever though, because you still haven\'t responded to Cored and I\'s posts relating to where your assumption of news media being "liberal" originated from.
What news publications do you consider liberal?
What news publications do you get your news from?
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Headline: Koran Flushed Down Toilet!
Yeah, I can see the $$$$ rolling in from that story. :rolleyes:
USA Today non biased? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh Core you are indeed a funny man.
The "$$$$" doesn\'t roll in. Their circulation increases when they break a big story that captures a lot of attention. Is that so hard to understand?
USA Today is only liberal biased in your bizzaro world of paranoid bullshit. I guess conservatives always have to feel like someone\'s out to get them in order to maintain their perpetual "us vs. them" psychosis.
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
As I previously posted, Associated Press standards use "a"dministration. Some papers do use Bush Adminstration though. So we are both correct. Sorry for nitpicking.
Whatever though, because you still haven\'t responded to Cored and I\'s posts relating to where your assumption of news media being "liberal" originated from.
What news publications do you consider liberal?
What news publications do you get your news from?
I have responded countless times in these very forums. Oh and nice grammar... "I\'s"... :laughing:
What new publications do I consider liberal? LA Times, NY Times, Washington Post, Reuters, The Atlanta Journal Constitution, The Guardian, USA Today etc.
These all have liberal editorial staff and reporters who either choose to publish irrelevant stories in order to push their ideological agenda or have reporters who report stories from their political slant.
Just read any given article and it is so easy to pick out the bias in certain word they use. It is easy to see and is all a matter of perspective according to your political ideology. Conservatives look at a glass of water and see it as being half full, while liberals look at the same glass and see it half empty. This analogy could be applied to how the news is reported and instead of reporting positive or good news, the liberal media focuses on reporting the negative, without ever mentioning the positive.
What news publications do I read? Too many to list - including the ones I listed above.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
USA Today is only liberal biased in your bizzaro world of paranoid bullshit. I guess conservatives always have to feel like someone\'s out to get them in order to maintain their perpetual "us vs. them" psychosis.
Just like liberals claim Bush invaded Iraq for cheap oil, he stole both elections, etc, etc.
USA Today not liberal? One example, during the Democratic Convention USA today sign two individuals to write daily columns about the convention. Both were controversial - Ann Coulter and Michael Moore - each representing the right and the left respectively.
Ann gets the boot after submitting her column because it was deemed "too controversial", yet the fat ass of liberal propaganda has his published. Moore has what credentials other than making films based on lies? Coulter at least has a degree to back up her opinions. Oh the hypocracy! It is ok to have one extreme, but not the other?
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In related news . . .
Muslims\' desecration of holy book received little notice
Posted: May 18, 2005
While Muslims have responded with deadly outrage to the now-retracted report by Newsweek of alleged Quran desecration by U.S. interrogators, there was little outcry three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem\'s Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper.
Catholic priests in the church marking the spot where Jesus was believed to have been born said that during the five-week siege, Palestinians tore up some Bibles for toilet paper and removed many valuable sacramental objects, according to a May 15, 2002, report by the Washington Times.
Newsweek is under fire for a report in its May 9 edition that sparked protests and rioting across the Muslim world resulting in 17 dead, scores injured, relief buildings burned down and a setback to years of coalition-building against terrorists.
Newsweek\'s Periscope column written by Michael Isikoff and John Barry included a brief item alleging U.S. military investigators at the Guantanamo Bay prison found evidence that interrogators placed copies of the Quran down the toilet in an effort to get prisoners to talk.
Despite Newsweek\'s retraction, the outrage in the Muslim world continues.
In Saudi Arabia yesterday, the country\'s top religious authority, Grand Mufti Adul-Aziz al-Sheik, condemned the alleged desecration and called for an investigation "to alleviate the sorrow that befell Muslims."
"We condemn and denounce this criminal act against Muslims\' most sacred item," al-Sheik said.
Afghanistan\'s government said Newsweek should be held responsible for damages caused by the demonstrations, and Pakistan said the magazine\'s apology and retraction were "not enough."
In contrast, during the 2002 church siege, the muted complaints of Christians under the Muslim-dominated Palestinian Authority gained little traction.
The Palestinian gunmen, members of Yasser Arafat\'s Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, seized church stockpiles of food and "ate like greedy monsters" until the food ran out, while more than 150 civilians went hungry, the Washington Times report said.
The indulgence lasted about two weeks into the 39-day siege, when the food and drink ran out, according to an account by four Greek Orthodox priests trapped inside. A church helper told the Times the quantity of food consumed by the gunmen in the first 15 days should have lasted six months.
Angry Orthodox priests showed reporters empty bottles of whiskey, champagne, vodka, cognac and French wine on the floor along with hundreds of cigarette butts.
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"They should be ashamed of themselves. They acted like animals, like greedy monsters. Come, I will show you more," said one priest, who declined to give his name.
Computers were taken apart and a television set dismantled for use as a hiding place for weapons.
"You can see what repayment we got for \'hosting\' these so-called guests," said Archbishop Ironius, according to the Times report.
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While I don\'t agree with everything Coulter says, this is an interesting read...
\'NEWSWEEK DISSEMBLED, MUSLIMS DISMEMBERED!\' By Ann Coulter
Wed May 18, 7:01 PM ET
When ace reporter Michael Isikoff had the scoop of the decade, a thoroughly sourced story about the president of the United States having an affair with an intern and then pressuring her to lie about it under oath, Newsweek decided not to run the story. Matt Drudge scooped Newsweek, followed by The Washington Post.
When Isikoff had a detailed account of Kathleen Willey\'s nasty sexual encounter with the president in the Oval Office, backed up with eyewitness and documentary evidence, Newsweek decided not to run it. Again, Matt Drudge got the story.
When Isikoff was the first with detailed reporting on Paula Jones\' accusations against a sitting president, Isikoff\'s then-employer The Washington Post -- which owns Newsweek -- decided not to run it. The American Spectator got the story, followed by the Los Angeles Times.
So apparently it\'s possible for Michael Isikoff to have a story that actually is true, but for his editors not to run it.
Why no pause for reflection when Isikoff had a story about American interrogators at Guantanamo flushing the Quran down the toilet? Why not sit on this story for, say, even half as long as NBC News sat on Lisa Meyers\' highly credible account of Bill Clinton raping Juanita Broaddrick?
Newsweek seems to have very different responses to the same reporter\'s scoops. Who\'s deciding which of Isikoff\'s stories to run and which to hold? I note that the ones that Matt Drudge runs have turned out to be more accurate -- and interesting! -- than the ones Newsweek runs. Maybe Newsweek should start running everything past Matt Drudge.
Somehow Newsweek missed the story a few weeks ago about Saudi Arabia arresting 40 Christians for "trying to spread their poisonous religious beliefs." But give the American media a story about American interrogators defacing the Quran, and journalists are so appalled there\'s no time for fact-checking -- before they dash off to see the latest exhibition of "Piss Christ."
Assistant Managing Editor Evan Thomas justified Newsweek\'s decision to run the incendiary anti-U.S. story about the Quran, saying that "similar reports from released detainees" had already run in the foreign press -- "and in the Arab news agency al-Jazeera."
Is there an adult on the editorial board of Newsweek? Al-Jazeera also broadcast a TV miniseries last year based on the "Protocols of the Elders Of Zion." (I didn\'t see it, but I hear James Brolin was great!) Al-Jazeera has run programs on the intriguing question, "Is Zionism worse than Nazism?" (Take a wild guess where the consensus was on this one.) It runs viewer comments about Jews being descended from pigs and apes. How about that for a Newsweek cover story, Evan? You\'re covered -- al-Jazeera has already run similar reports!
Ironically, among the reasons Newsweek gave for killing Isikoff\'s Lewinsky bombshell was that Evan Thomas was worried someone might get hurt. It seems that Lewinsky could be heard on tape saying that if the story came out, "I\'ll (expletive) kill myself."
But Newsweek couldn\'t wait a moment to run a story that predictably ginned up Islamic savages into murderous riots in Afghanistan, leaving hundreds injured and 16 dead. Who could have seen that coming? These are people who stone rape victims to death because the family "honor" has been violated and who fly planes into American skyscrapers because -- wait, why did they do that again?
Come to think of it, I\'m not sure it\'s entirely fair to hold Newsweek responsible for inciting violence among people who view ancient Buddhist statues as outrageous provocation -- though I was really looking forward to finally agreeing with Islamic loonies about something. (Bumper sticker idea for liberals: News magazines don\'t kill people, Muslims do.) But then I wouldn\'t have sat on the story of the decade because of the empty threats of a drama queen gas-bagging with her friend on the telephone between spoonfuls of Haagen-Dazs.
No matter how I look at it, I can\'t grasp the editorial judgment that kills Isikoff\'s stories about a sitting president molesting the help and obstructing justice, while running Isikoff\'s not particularly newsworthy (or well-sourced) story about Americans desecrating a Quran at Guantanamo.
Even if it were true, why not sit on it? There are a lot of reasons the media withhold even true facts from readers. These include:
A drama queen nitwit exclaimed she\'d kill herself. (Evan Thomas\' reason for holding the Lewinsky story.)
The need for "more independent reporting." (Newsweek President Richard Smith explaining why Newsweek sat on the Lewinsky story even though the magazine had Lewinsky on tape describing the affair.)
"We were in Havana." (ABC president David Westin explaining why "Nightline" held the Lewinsky story.)
Unavailable for comment. (Michael Oreskes, New York Times Washington bureau chief, in response to why, the day The Washington Post ran the Lewinsky story, the Times ran a staged photo of Clinton meeting with the Israeli president on its front page.)
Protecting the privacy of an alleged rape victim even when the accusation turns out to be false.
Protecting an accused rapist even when the accusation turns out to be true if the perp is a Democratic president most journalists voted for.
Protecting a reporter\'s source.
How about the media adding to the list of reasons not to run a news item: "Protecting the national interest"? If journalists don\'t like the ring of that, how about this one: "Protecting ourselves before the American people rise up and lynch us for our relentless anti-American stories."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20050518/cm_ucac/newsweekdissembledmuslimsdismembered/nc:742
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Haha politics make people act like such kids.
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Answer to Ann Coulter: Maybe one reason why the article SHOULD be run if it\'s true is because we as a nation shouldn\'t be torturing prisoners or desecrating the Koran. The only way to hold anyone accountable and stop the practice is to make it public.
BTW, it turns out the story probably IS true. Since we\'re all having fun posting articles someone else wrote, I\'ll play along:
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Newsweek Was Right
The Daily Outrage, by Ari Berman
Posted 05/18/2005 @ 09:19am
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?pid=2550
The Bush Administration\'s aggressive response to a Newsweek Story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/) alleging that US interrogators at Guantanamo Bay flushed the Koran down the toilet in front of Islamic detainees displays the height of hypocrisy. After Newsweek clumsily issued an apology, followed by a retraction (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/17/news/koran.php), White House spokesman Scott McClellan called on the magazine (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=765093) to "help repair the damage that has been done, particularly in the region," by explaining "what happened and why they got it wrong." Maybe the Bush Administration should do the same, by opening up its secret facilities for inspection to the Red Cross and other third-party observers. We are printing below a letter from reader Calgacus--a pseudonym for a researcher in the national security field for the past twenty years--that shows how the desecration of the Koran became standard US interrogation practice.
"Contrary to White House spin, the allegations of religious desecration at Guantanamo such as those described by Newsweek on 9 May 2005 are common among ex-prisoners and have been widely reported outside the United States. Several former detainees at the Guantanamo and Bagram airbase prisons have reported instances of their handlers sitting or standing on the Koran, throwing or kicking it in toilets, and urinating on it.
One such incident (during which the Koran was thrown into a pile and stepped on) prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in March 2002. Regarding this, the New York Times in a 1 May 2005, article interviewed a former detainee, Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp. And the Times reports: "A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans." (Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt, "Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay (http://rempost.blogspot.com/2005/05/inquiry-finds-abuses-at-guantanamo-bay.html)," New York Times, May 1, 2005, p. 35.)
The hunger strike and apology story is also confirmed by another former detainee, Shafiq Rasul, interviewed by the UK Guardian in 2003 (James Meek, "The People the Law Forgot," The Guardian, December 3, 2003, p. 1.) It was also confirmed by former prisoner Jamal al-Harith in an interview with the Daily Mirror (Rosa Prince and Gary Jones, "My Hell in Camp X-ray World Exclusive (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news%20allnewscontent_objectid=14042696_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-MY-HELL-IN-CAMP-X-RAY-name_page.html)," Daily Mirror, March 12, 2004.)
The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:
"Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. It was a very bad situation for us, said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. We cried so much and shouted, Please do not do that to the Holy Koran. (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment (http://home.btclick.com/caab/Guantanamo.htm)," Washington Post, March 26, 2003.)
Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in March 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:
"The behaviour of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitution Rights, Detention in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay (http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/docs/Gitmo-compositestatementFINAL23july04.pdf), August 4, 2004.)
The claim that US troops at Bagram airbase prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Americains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement", April 11, 2005). An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners (http://www.cageprisoners.com/print.php?id=6862) web site.
Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cageprisoners.com (http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=1611).
Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-inmates Share Guantanamo Ordeal (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4505403.stm)," May 2, 2005.)
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Answer to Ann Coulter: Maybe one reason why the article SHOULD be run if it\'s true is because we as a nation shouldn\'t be torturing prisoners or desecrating the Koran. The only way to hold anyone accountable and stop the practice is to make it public.
BTW, it turns out the story probably IS true. Since we\'re all having fun posting articles someone else wrote, I\'ll play along:
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Newsweek Was Right
The Daily Outrage, by Ari Berman
Posted 05/18/2005 @ 09:19am
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/outrage?pid=2550
The Bush Administration\'s aggressive response to a Newsweek Story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/) alleging that US interrogators at Guantanamo Bay flushed the Koran down the toilet in front of Islamic detainees displays the height of hypocrisy. After Newsweek clumsily issued an apology, followed by a retraction (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/17/news/koran.php), White House spokesman Scott McClellan called on the magazine (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=765093) to "help repair the damage that has been done, particularly in the region," by explaining "what happened and why they got it wrong." Maybe the Bush Administration should do the same, by opening up its secret facilities for inspection to the Red Cross and other third-party observers. We are printing below a letter from reader Calgacus--a pseudonym for a researcher in the national security field for the past twenty years--that shows how the desecration of the Koran became standard US interrogation practice.
"Contrary to White House spin, the allegations of religious desecration at Guantanamo such as those described by Newsweek on 9 May 2005 are common among ex-prisoners and have been widely reported outside the United States. Several former detainees at the Guantanamo and Bagram airbase prisons have reported instances of their handlers sitting or standing on the Koran, throwing or kicking it in toilets, and urinating on it.
One such incident (during which the Koran was thrown into a pile and stepped on) prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in March 2002. Regarding this, the New York Times in a 1 May 2005, article interviewed a former detainee, Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp. And the Times reports: "A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans." (Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt, "Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay (http://rempost.blogspot.com/2005/05/inquiry-finds-abuses-at-guantanamo-bay.html)," New York Times, May 1, 2005, p. 35.)
The hunger strike and apology story is also confirmed by another former detainee, Shafiq Rasul, interviewed by the UK Guardian in 2003 (James Meek, "The People the Law Forgot," The Guardian, December 3, 2003, p. 1.) It was also confirmed by former prisoner Jamal al-Harith in an interview with the Daily Mirror (Rosa Prince and Gary Jones, "My Hell in Camp X-ray World Exclusive (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news%20allnewscontent_objectid=14042696_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-MY-HELL-IN-CAMP-X-RAY-name_page.html)," Daily Mirror, March 12, 2004.)
The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:
"Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. It was a very bad situation for us, said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. We cried so much and shouted, Please do not do that to the Holy Koran. (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment (http://home.btclick.com/caab/Guantanamo.htm)," Washington Post, March 26, 2003.)
Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in March 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:
"The behaviour of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitution Rights, Detention in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay (http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/docs/Gitmo-compositestatementFINAL23july04.pdf), August 4, 2004.)
The claim that US troops at Bagram airbase prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Americains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement", April 11, 2005). An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners (http://www.cageprisoners.com/print.php?id=6862) web site.
Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cageprisoners.com (http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=1611).
Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-inmates Share Guantanamo Ordeal (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4505403.stm)," May 2, 2005.)
OMG The Daily Outrage says its true so it must be! :rolleyes:
Don\'t try and spin this crap Core. Newsweek had no viable sources and the article you link is the same crap. Amazing - even when Newsweek retracts the story you are still clinging to the belief that it is true. This is more liberal garbage about how the government should share every secret with the public - ie. "by opening up its secret facilities for inspection...". They don\'t label them "secret" or "high security" so any hippy activist can walk in at their leisure.
As for the claim of torture... personally I don\'t think ripping a book up, flushing it down a toilet or whiping your ass with it could be considered in any way torture. I wouldn\'t care if it was true and why should the public even want to know if it is. Don\'t answer that the Constitution protects these scumbags or "our country is not about this" tripe because it doesn\'t. These people are enemies of the United States and would kill you, me and your mother without hesitation. These people are terrorists and would attack the US or US troops again if they were released. Screw them and you Core for trying to carebear them and their so called "rights". They have no rights as far as me and many Americans are concerned.
This is the same type of crap that comes from the ACLU and its clones regarding criminal "rights". The left has lost its ability to distinguish enemies from friends and criminals from victims. I thank God that the security of this country is not in the hands of people like you and journalists (like the ones at Newsweek) who would rather create more problems than be content and know the certain bad people in this world are exactly where they should be getting the treatment they deserve.
EDIT: Let me say another thing about Daily Outrage. Under that ugly pimply bastards face (the author) is this little synopsis about the column:
The Daily Outrage aims to shine a spotlight on the forces that corrupt our democracy. The outrages come from all over these days: lobbyists stifling reformers in both parties, defense contractors profiting off pre-emptive war, the mainstream media echoing government deceptions, and a rightwing attack machine defending neo-imperialists and distorting progressive values. These stories rarely make the front-page, penetrate talk-radio, or appear on the evening news.
Besides the anti capitalist rantings I like this especially - "These stories rarely make the front page..." ?????!!!! These people are lunatics. What was the Newsweek story if not the same exact thing this article is?
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Originally posted by THX
cripes bet they weren\'t expecting to cause such a stir.
15 people dead over one article!?
This was ridiculous and unnecessary.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
This was ridiculous and unnecessary.
i gotta admit..even tho these muslims got their panties twisted over this..let\'s be honest here...it seemed that they were lookin for just about anything to cause a ruckus or riot...being that they already hate the u.s. it\'s almost as if they were waiting for the smallest, action or inaction just to act like fools...
gimme a break you\'re gonna act like that cause somebody did that to the quran? when everyday those cats are burning american flags and such...yet if we bombed those assholes on the spot, the u.s. will catch heat...
don\'t get me wrong, i\'m not a patriot or anything like that and the u.s. is far from perfect, but i gotta call this for what it is..and it\'s pure bulls**t from the muslim side...yea i understand that some are critical to the religion, but to act that way over a book? whether the story\'s true or not, there was no reason for them to act like that.......
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It\'s funny how you claim this article is worthless, yet it\'s built on a foundation of articles and research from numerous other sources such as the New York Times, Washington Post, Daily Mirror, BBC, etc etc. I guess they ALL got it wrong... Oh wait, those guys are all are all part of the "liberal media conspiracy" too, right? :rolleyes:
You feel fine about torturing people, fucking with their minds, and shitting on their religion with no real limitations because you make the same myopic assumption common to all conservatives. "If they\'re in jail, they must be guilty of something." There\'s no possibility that some of them might be innocent, eh? And if so, who cares... ? Right? Why not just go ahead and promote a policy of nuking the middle east to eliminate all the "ragheads?" We have no way of knowing which of our prisoners are guilty and which are innocent because they have no right to due process, and there is no legitimate court to hear their defense. There is a limit to bullshit. They\'re either human beings, or they aren\'t. They either have some human rights, or they don\'t.
Fortunately we have laws in the US that prevent us from taking action on these vile instincts. I am not a strongly religious person, but I do believe in God, and I think some officials in our government are going to have a lot to answer for in the next world when it comes to the subject of prisoner torture and unlawful imprisonment. BTW, I don\'t think God will take kindly to so-and-so putting his book in the toilet.
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core..i gotta admit the majority of the time i\'m with on just about every argument from the conservative side..and we don\'t know whether this story is true or not...maybe it is and the u.s, is trying to do damage control..and if it\'s not true then that\'s just sloppy journalism...but c\'mon bro you actually believe that the u.s. or any other country for that matter doesn\'t torture or play mind games with prisoners?..i know you\'re not that naive...all countries do it...it\'s just a matter of not gettin caught or lettin the media get wind of it...
i have respect for all religions but to me, these people didn\'t have to cause all this ruckus and death because somebody allegedly tossed the book in the toilet...trust i didn\'t agree with the war oin iraq etc etc,..but these prisoners are from when we were fighting in afganastan (spel) correct? in which i fully support the u.s. goin in and tryin to find osama...all that senseless death was uncalled for...
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Of course many countries practice torture. I\'m saying it\'s wrong.
What are you saying? It\'s only wrong if you get caught?
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Originally posted by Coredweller
What are you saying? It\'s only wrong if you get caught? [/B]
yep...we\'re all supposed to follow some code of law when it comes to pow\'s, and we abide by it to some degree....but if ANY country wants or needs info from an individual...they will do anything to get that info...all i\'m sayin is that everybody does it..is it wrong? of course it is..but everybody is gulity of it...
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see core this is what i don\'t agree with....
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTB2MXQ5MTU3BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEdGVzdAMwBHRtcGwDaW5kZXgtaWU-/s/240749
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it also seems that al sadr is back on the scene again..:rolleyes:
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTB2MXQ5MTU3BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEdGVzdAMwBHRtcGwDaW5kZXgtaWU-/s/240743
without takin this too much off topic...these people that are upset about the quran (spel) say nothing of these suicide bombers that are killing innocents on a daily basis...yo, i was against the war, but now it\'s time for this sadr dude to shut the f**k up and let the iraq\'s get their s**t together...
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You have to hand it to The New York Times for once again standing as a pillar among journalism.
For those arguing for the mistreatment of foreign detainees, pay closeattention.
Friday, May 20 2005
By TIM GOLDEN
In U.S. Report, Brutal Details of 2 Afghan Inmates\' Deaths
Even as the young Afghan man was dying before them, his American jailers continued to torment him.
The prisoner, a slight, 22-year-old taxi driver known only as Dilawar, was hauled from his cell at the detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, at around 2 a.m. to answer questions about about a rocket attack on an American base. When he arrived in the interrogation room, an interpreter who was present said, his legs were bouncing uncontrollably in the plastic chair and his hands were numb. He had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days...
...At the interrogators\' behest, a guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.
"Leave him up," one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus saying.
Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar. By then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen. It would be many months before Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.
The full article is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse.html?hp&ex=1116648000&en=6cca0512a38427c3&ei=5094&partner=homepage
And Mr. Dilawar was not the only one abused at the base. Among other highlights of the article for you people who think it\'s okay to treat human beings as below animals:
"In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals...yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questiong."
Giga, and the others of this thread, who believe that these people - especially this believed-to-be-INNOCENT person Mr. Dilawar- deserve this kind of treatment, you are sick fucks.
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Originally posted by clips
i gotta admit..even tho these muslims got their panties twisted over this..let\'s be honest here...it seemed that they were lookin for just about anything to cause a ruckus or riot...being that they already hate the u.s. it\'s almost as if they were waiting for the smallest, action or inaction just to act like fools...
gimme a break you\'re gonna act like that cause somebody did that to the quran? when everyday those cats are burning american flags and such...yet if we bombed those assholes on the spot, the u.s. will catch heat...
don\'t get me wrong, i\'m not a patriot or anything like that and the u.s. is far from perfect, but i gotta call this for what it is..and it\'s pure bulls**t from the muslim side...yea i understand that some are critical to the religion, but to act that way over a book? whether the story\'s true or not, there was no reason for them to act like that.......
Maybe the reason Muslims hate the United States is because of ignorant assholes like you clips.
Why would people get upset about the Quran being flushed down the toilet? This book is their LIVES clips, they pray up to five times a day. All in all the 32% of the world that is Muslim is peaceful. It\'s only the radical Islam you see.
But you wouldn\'t know that would you because you haven\'t taken the time to educate yourself about the muslim people. You just make sweeping generalizations that they are all "terrorists."
Hell, you don\'t even know how to spell Afghanistan and that\'s deplorable.
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Why would people get upset about the Quran being flushed down the toilet? This book is their LIVES clips, they pray up to five times a day. All in all the 32% of the world that is Muslim is peaceful. It\'s only the radical Islam you see.
Nothing justifies killing people over a book. You should read the Quran sometime. There\'s a lot of things that AREN\'T peaceful dwelling within the pages.
Maybe the reason Muslims hate the United States is because of ignorant assholes like you clips.
Of course...it\'s because of people like clips that we\'re hated so much. :rolleyes:
But you wouldn\'t know that would you because you haven\'t taken the time to educate yourself about the muslim people. You just make sweeping generalizations that they are all "terrorists."
They are definitely not all terrorists.
War blows...
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Ghettomath maybe you should read this for a sec.
http://www.timeswatch.org/twarticles/2005/20050520.asp (http://www.timeswatch.org/twarticles/2005/20050520.asp)
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
Maybe the reason Muslims hate the United States is because of ignorant assholes like you clips.
Why would people get upset about the Quran being flushed down the toilet? This book is their LIVES clips, they pray up to five times a day. All in all the 32% of the world that is Muslim is peaceful. It\'s only the radical Islam you see.
But you wouldn\'t know that would you because you haven\'t taken the time to educate yourself about the muslim people. You just make sweeping generalizations that they are all "terrorists."
Hell, you don\'t even know how to spell Afghanistan and that\'s deplorable.
you my friend can kiss my black ass twice! you are a f**kin idiot! i\'m not gonna tell you to go back and read some of my pots regarding muslims...i know that all muslims aren\'t terrorists! i\'ve defended muslims many times going back as far them being blamed for 911, reasons why they feel the u.s. treats them unfairly, numerous other issues i have stepped up to the plate to defend them and call out some of the actions of this country...
but f**k that i\'m not a conservative or a democrat..i call this s**t like how i see it and in this game nobody\'s an angel...i know a couple of cats around my way that are muslims and trust i haven\'t spoke to them about this incident, but i\'m sure they wouldn\'t be ready to kill somebody over that s**t...point is, is that they already hate the u.s. from the jumpoff..so whether this story of the quran made news or not, they would be protesting the u.s. or protesting violently to some degree.
i look at all sides of the spectrum,...open your damn eyes and call that s**t for what it is...i didn\'t know i had to actually say "uhm well not all muslims are terrorits" :rolleyes: of course they aren\'t dumbass but i see i have to break that silly s**t down for you...and last i checked this wasn\'t a grammar class...
s**t do you actually believe that if i found out somebody flushed the bible down the toilet i\'ll be like "yo f**k that let\'s roll on these cats that did that s**t! :rolleyes:..no i wouldn\'t they (muslims) overreacted plain and simple, but your simple mind can\'t comprehend that....
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Three points:
1. Muslims have a different view toward the Koran than Christians have toward the Bible. I think to them, the physical book itself is more important than it is to Christians.
2. You can now type words like "fuck" and "shit." No need to insert ** in the word. The language filter has been switched off.
3. Personal attacks are unnecessary and immature, so let\'s omit things like " ignorant assholes like you" (Gettomath) and "fucking idiot" (Clips). Thanks for your cooperation.
:)
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all i\'m sayin is this...if the u.s. does some foul s**t i\'m gonna call them out on it..if certain muslims radicals whatever , do something foul..i\'m gonna call them out as well..i know how sensitive muslims are when it comes to the koran, but i still feel that they overracted.....
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Unless human nature disappears overnite, there will always be wars and tragedies. There is also a basic misunderstanding of the value of human life to these people. They would think nothing of cutting your mother\'s head off and killing your children in front of you to get what they want. What do they want? They want the extermination of all non-muslims and the extermination of muslims that don\'t interperet their stupid little book the same way they do. I find it a tad hypocritical for them to get so worked up over an abused book while they applaud families brainwashing their children into blowing themselves up. Jihad is Jihad. We will not defeat them playing by the rules. Tough shit. You wanna make an omlett, you gotta crack some eggs.
I worked for 5 Iranian brothers when I was 16, and my brother worked for an Iraqi man for years. Let me tell you from experience: For the most part, an Arabian man is anything but a pillar of compassion and understanding. They all seem to be brought up to be pig-headed, stubborn, racist, chauvanists who never once consider the fact that they could be wrong. It\'s in their culture. I had a conversation with the most accessible one of the brothers, and he said they are brought up that way, because in their culture, being fair and comapassionate is a sign of weakness. I also believe that if they weren\'t fighting us, they would just be fighting each other over the smallest of differences. (more than they already do...)
Anyhoo, that\'s just my 2 cents, and it\'s what I feel is true.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
1. Muslims have a different view toward the Koran than Christians have toward the Bible. I think to them, the physical book itself is more important than it is to Christians.
:)
This is true, part of the reason why you\'ll never see some pocket Koran handed out on a street corner. It would never be put somewhere near your ass. Also, it\'s kept by many on the highest shelf in the house, above all other books. Many also wash their hands before reading.
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CHIZZY: Some of what you say might be true. I don\'t know if I believe it all 100%, but you may be partially correct. I have lived outside the US, and I learned that sometimes the stupid stereotypes we learn about foreign cultures turn out to be correct.
If this is true about Arabs (& Persians?), then I\'m happy to let them carry on with their traditional way of life in their own dusty little corner of the world, and completely ignore them. I have no desire to invade their land, and I think if we ignore them, they will probably ignore us. That\'s been the status quo for hundreds of years, until the rise of transnational corporations, with their psychotic need for endless market growth. Western culture and moires are carried along with these market expansions and pushed into third world cultures that don\'t always accept them warmly. If Nike and Pepsi and Guess Jeans didn\'t attempt to sell products in the Middle East, and convince the women and young people that they should desire the advertising fantasies they concoct, would the fundamentalist male patriarchs be as aggressive and hateful toward the west? I think we are manufacturing many of these problems with our support for the spread of unhindered consumerist monoculture throughout the globe.
I strongly believe if we westerners poured our money and technology into developing alternate energy sources, then we wouldn\'t be dependent on oil reserves in the middle east, and we wouldn\'t feel the necessity to build a foothold in that region. Some Republicans seem to feel otherwise.
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Howard Stern, yes Howard Stern, put it best
They\'re over there cutting the heads off our prisoners and they have a problem with us supposedly humiliating them with pictures?
Its utter bullshit. Boo-fuckin-hoo we flushed a holy book. I\'m growing impatient with this super-high standard that is imposed upon the American government when these fucking heathens run rampant killing innocent people because of their radical views.
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Just like I said. Unjustified. But because these terrorists have radical views, the whole nudie pic thing didn\'t help us out much.
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Originally posted by SwifDi
Its utter bullshit. Boo-fuckin-hoo we flushed a holy book. I\'m growing impatient with this super-high standard that is imposed upon the American government when these fucking heathens run rampant killing innocent people because of their radical views. [/B]
this is what i\'m sayin in a nutshell...but ghettoass wanna call me out on some bulls**t..yo, ghetto some advice.. stop playin\' yourself bro...play your position and sit that ass in the corner when grown folk speak...you try to come off as some type of college scholar, when your s**t is purely elementary...shut the f**k up...
Chizz, you understand what i\'m sayin\' as well...:fro:
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Right, I agree with you. I am looking at things from their perspective as well, and its a shame that they are as brainwashed as they are, however it does not justify their actions. If you can\'t take a step back and see that you\'re practicing a religion that promotes violence towards non-believers then you are a failure as a human being.
We should be civilized, however still need to keep our feet on their throats and not let up because of stupid bullshit like taking pictures of them naked or flushing a Koran. There\'s worse things that could happen.
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Originally posted by clips
this is what i\'m sayin in a nutshell...but ghettoass wanna call me out on some bulls**t..yo, ghetto some advice.. stop playin\' yourself bro...play your position and sit that ass in the corner when grown folk speak...you try to come off as some type of college scholar, when your s**t is purely elementary...shut the f**k up...
Chizz, you understand what i\'m sayin\' as well...:fro:
Trufin\' boots.
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As I posted earlier, Newsweek was right.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20050525/ts_nm/security_guantanamo_koran_dc
FBI memo reports Guantanamo guards flushing Koran
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An FBI agent wrote in a 2002 document made public on Wednesday that a detainee held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, had accused American jailers there of flushing the Koran down a toilet.
The Pentagon said the allegation was not credible.
The declassified document\'s release came the week after the Bush administration denounced as wrong a May 9 Newsweek article that stated U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo had flushed a Koran down a toilet to try to make detainees talk. The magazine retracted the article, which had triggered protests in Afghanistan in which 16 people died.
The newly released document, dated Aug. 1, 2002, contained a summary of statements made days earlier by a detainee, whose name was redacted, in two interviews with an FBI special agent, whose name also was withheld, at the Guantanamo prison for foreign terrorism suspects.
...
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Originally posted by Coredweller
As I posted earlier, Newsweek was right.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20050525/ts_nm/security_guantanamo_koran_dc
I don\'t see any confirmation anywhere that Newsweek was right. These prisoners have been trained to say such things as the Pentagon has stated. The only confirmations they have are these terrorists who are being held or have been held in Gitmo have made the claim that the Koran has been "disrespected".
IMO they shouldn\'t even be allowed to have the book in the first place.
I also find it amusing that the ACLU was the one to get the classified document released and that they are defending the desicration of this "holy book" - in their words. Yet, they are all for the degrading of the Bible.
The hypocracy of the left never ceases to amaze me.
Why couldn\'t you post the whole article Core? Maybe because it would further weaken your claim:
In other documents, FBI agents stated that Guantanamo detainees also accused U.S. personnel of kicking the Koran and throwing it to the floor, and described beatings by guards. But one document cited a detainee who accused a guard of dropping a Koran, prompting an "uprising" by prisoners, when it was the prisoner himself who dropped it.
"Unfortunately, one thing we\'ve learned over the last couple of years is that detainee statements about their treatment at Guantanamo and other detention centers sometimes have turned out to be more credible than U.S. government statements," said ACLU lawyer Jameel Jaffer.
Yeah I believe a bunch of Islamic terrorists who are taught to lie about almost everything over the US Government.
More information is provided by William Muir\'s "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote 88:
The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions:
1st, to save one\'s life;
2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation;
3rd, to persuade a woman;
4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition.
http://www.answeringislam.net/Index/L/lying.html
:laughing:
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Don\'t get started about the ACLU "degrading the Bible." I know you aren\'t a religious freak. It\'s also crazy to say the prisoners shouldn\'t be allowed to have a copy of the Koran. Even the worst, most wretched evil multiple murderers are allowed to have a Bible in US prisons. This is no different.
I do find it strange that you are pursuing this argument that the Koran was never thrown in the toilet, and the Newsweek story is completely false. Your only evidence for that position is your claim that the prisoners are unreliable witnesses. We have a couple FBI agents who repeated the accounts of Koran desecration and other infractions in their reports. They interviewed the prisoners in person and they believed them, yet you do not. Oh well, I guess you know better from all your law enforcement experience and being thousands of miles away and all. :rolleyes:
The fact is, even if we accept your "Life of Mahomet" rules about lying and all that stuff, the best you can claim is "The story may very well be false." On the other hand, it may very well be true also. Barring the disclosure of a videotape showing a prison guard flushing a Koran down a toilet, I guess nothing will ever convince you that the US Government might do something wrong. But then you probably don’t think it\'s wrong to flush a Koran anyway, so I wonder why I bother discussing this with you.
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Originally posted by Coredweller
Don\'t get started about the ACLU "degrading the Bible." I know you aren\'t a religious freak. It\'s also crazy to say the prisoners shouldn\'t be allowed to have a copy of the Koran. Even the worst, most wretched evil multiple murderers are allowed to have a Bible in US prisons. This is no different.
I do find it strange that you are pursuing this argument that the Koran was never thrown in the toilet, and the Newsweek story is completely false. Your only evidence for that position is your claim that the prisoners are unreliable witnesses. We have a couple FBI agents who repeated the accounts of Koran desecration and other infractions in their reports. They interviewed the prisoners in person and they believed them, yet you do not. Oh well, I guess you know better from all your law enforcement experience and being thousands of miles away and all. :rolleyes:
The fact is, even if we accept your "Life of Mahomet" rules about lying and all that stuff, the best you can claim is "The story may very well be false." On the other hand, it may very well be true also. Barring the disclosure of a videotape showing a prison guard flushing a Koran down a toilet, I guess nothing will ever convince you that the US Government might do something wrong. But then you probably don’t think it\'s wrong to flush a Koran anyway, so I wonder why I bother discussing this with you.
Do you believe it is wrong for someone to wipe their ass with the Bible such as the Pals did in Bethlehem when they were holed up in church thats sits on top of where Jesus was born? Where is the condemnation over that? Didn\'t hear about it? Not surprising given the bias in the media. Where were the Christian riots over this? There weren\'t any because we are civilized and realize it is only a book.
Our government can do no wrong with the people at Gitmo. They are trash and should be treated as such. These people have no rights or liberties - they are enemies of this country who have taken up arms against it who aren\'t US citizens. That is the major difference between a murderer on death row and these clowns.
I am disturbed that you think the government should be accountable for whatever claim they make, yet you don\'t give a damn about what these asshats have done. You would rather undermine the security of this country for the sake of having the moral high ground.
All the people that work for the ACLU should be put in Gitmo with their beloved freedom fighters. Do you even know the history of the ACLU and what their founders believed? What their goal was and still is? They hide under the guise of liberty and freedom when in truth they want to turn this country into a socialist state free from all religion. The only reason they are whining about the fundamentalists in Gitmo is to advance their own agenda against the Capitalist/Christian Judeo foundation of this country.
Do you not find it ironic that they want any mention of God or Christianity removed from every aspect of public life (schools, money, government property), yet they are crying about the hate filled book called the Koran?
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As stated earlier, Muslims have a different respect for the physical book of the Koran than Christians do for the Bible. It doesn\'t make one religion any more or less "civilized" because they have a different belief about the importance of their book.
Once again I\'m shocked by your ability to assume that all prisoners in Guantanamo must be terrorists guilty of the most heinous crimes simply because they\'re in there. Once again, according to you, the US military and law enforcement can never make a mistake in rounding up the wrong person. The very fact that there is no accountability or oversight, and no due process for these prisoners virtually guarantees that we have detained innocent people. If the officer in charge believes as you do that ANY price should be paid to ensure the security of the United States, and he knew that no one was going to be looking over his shoulder, then of course he would cast his net as wide as possible. Apprehend not only those people who are guilty, but also those who MIGHT be guilty. Why take the chance, right?
We\'ve spent hundreds of years trying to perfect a criminal justice system that grants the accused the right to due process, knowledge of the allegations against him, and the right to defend himself on those charges, yet we throw all that away the instant we are threatened by a tiny group of pathetic third world scumbags? I don\'t think they are so dangerous that they are worth the price we\'re paying.
And you say we\'re more civilized than them? What\'s the point of bragging about our civilized institutions if we abandon them on a whim?
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Core you still don\'t get it. These people are not in our criminal justice system. Why do you think they were taken to Gitmo and not to the US mainland?
Also there have been accounts of released prisoners from Gitmo who go right back to what they were doing - terrorist related activities. So much for their oathes and trustworthyness...
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041018-124854-2279r.htm
At least seven former prisoners of the United States at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have returned to terrorism, despite gaining their freedom by signing pledges to renounce violence.
At least two are believed to have died in fighting in Afghanistan, and a third was recaptured during a raid on a suspected training camp in Afghanistan, said Lt. Cmdr. Flex Plexico, a Pentagon spokesman. Others are at large.
Additional former detainees have expressed a desire to rejoin the fight, be it against U.N. peacekeepers in Afghanistan, Americans in Iraq or Russians in Chechnya.
Due process... :rolleyes:
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You are standing on a technicality. They were taken to Gitmo expressly so we could avoid US law and do whatever we want with them. The only reason it\'s legal is because King George said so. I guess our standards of justice only apply to us, and the other unclean hoards of foreigners don\'t deserve the same consideration? Our laws are meant to protect both the accused from injustice, and the accuser from an abuse of power. According to you, neither of these is worth bothering about.
Here are a couple portions of the story you didn\'t bother to cut and paste:
Maj. Gen. Eric Olson, the No. 2 commander of U.S. troops in Afghanistan, told The Associated Press this month there was no alternative to releasing prisoners from Guantanamo.
"It\'s not going to be perfect, so it (the Ghaffar case) has not led to any soul-searching about the release program," Olson said.
Before you go citing stories from the right wing-slanted Washington Times, you might want to be aware that they edit their wire service stories to make them more appealing to the ideological message they\'re trying to convey. If you compare the text on their website to the full AP story published by CBS News, you will find many individual words omitted to soften the impact of certain statements. They also simply cut the following paragraphs:
From http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/24/terror/main645493.shtml
Those in the small group that has gone back to fighting come mainly from the upper echelons of suspected militant or terror groups, some allegedly linked to al Qaeda, several counterterrorism officials in the Middle East said. They gave no details, but one noted a trend that lower-echelon members tend to get on with their lives after they are released.
…
After being questioned by Danish intelligence agents, he said he would stay in Denmark, hand over his passport and honor his pledge. Danish intelligence officials are keeping tabs on Abderrahmane.
In Sweden, Mehdi-Muhammed Ghezali, who was released in July after more than two years at the base, is being monitored by Swedish intelligence agents. While Sweden\'s security police, SAPO, has no official comment, its agents have said Ghezali is not a threat.
Other former Guantanamo prisoners, including Yaser Esam Hamdi of Saudi Arabia, had their releases held up amid fears they would rejoin their comrades.
Hamdi, who was born in Louisiana, spent three years in solitary confinement, first at Guantanamo and then at a Navy brig in South Carolina after he was captured in Afghanistan in 2001. He was returned to Saudi Arabia on Oct. 11 after agreeing to forfeit his U.S. citizenship.
He also is required to stay in Saudi Arabia for five years, renounce terror and cannot travel to Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Pakistan or Syria. Additionally, Hamdi must notify Saudi officials if he becomes aware of "any planned or executed acts of terrorism."
It is likely that Hamdi will be monitored by government officials there, as much as Ghezali and Abderrahmane have been in northern Europe.
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New article conscerning it (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/03/guantanamo.quran/index.html)
So they actually didn\'t flush it in the first place. Though some other mishandlings occured. So when is a news source going to actually gather facts and put together a story that stays intact.
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God, who gives a shit? Next thing they will be asking for cable television and daytime spas. I honestly am not bothered by our troops \'mishandling\' the Koran.
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That is because you are not muslim.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
That is because you are not muslim.
Exactly.
Geez. I\'ve been gone for some a bit an I missed Giga\'s rant on the entire liberal world and how they are attacking our God chosen president!?
Giga, you are hungry for anti-Bush stories. It\'s quite sad actually, you would probably blame liberals if your testicles one day fell off.
I don\'t know about you all, but these deaths over the Newsweek article are NOT a direct result from it. Please, you have GOT TO BE KIDDING if you are blind to the fact that EVERYBODY ACROSS THE GLOBE hates America and Americans(like Giga) right now. The Newsweek story just topped off the garbage and soon somebody is going to have to take it out. And let\'s guess who shall we Giga?
THE US OF A!!
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=819635
Giga you are a moron. You know damn well that the Koran was probably tried to be flushed down a damn toilet. We all know damn well that we don\'t exactly know what the hell is going on in there and if our soldiers had the balls to make prisoners pile up nude and then take pictures then desecrating the Koran is a "minor" incident. It\'s scary though that Bush and his Goons are trying to completely deteriorate the media that does not agree with them.
Of course, people like you Giga would rather slit your throat than to disagree with whatever BS this BS Administration is feeding you. You say that I hate this country. Nah. I hate Americans? Just the ones like you Giga. Do I blindly hate the president? Nah, I don\'t hate the man, just his ways.
Newsweek is not to blame for the deaths. It\'s our government policies in general. And since when do we care when non-Americans die? You are worried about 15 deaths when soldiers die, EACH DAY, from people in Iraq that hate us even if the media published articles about how we want Bush to become a dictator.
Please Giga, you are an old fool. I don\'t know if you have or are going through menopause but just cool down will you?
And I\'m with Cored on the Gitmo issue.
That might be ANOTHER reason why people are dying don\'t you think Giga, unless you find some other "liberal" media that causes death and should take all blame.
PS:
Asshats? WTF?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
Geez. I\'ve been gone for some a bit an I missed Giga\'s rant on the entire liberal world and how they are attacking our God chosen president!?
What a great post filled with idiotic statements, once again showing you have no clue about what really goes on in the world. Since you laced your post with insults, you won\'t mind if I return the favor will you? This isn\'t about the President it is about bad and unresponsible reporting. Stay on topic... oh thats right you can\'t - your post is idiotic rant about me and how much the world hates us! In case you hadn\'t noticed the story had been retracted - meaning they couldn\'t prove it, yet you know better then they do right Misstiq?
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Giga, you are hungry for anti-Bush stories. It\'s quite sad actually, you would probably blame liberals if your testicles one day fell off.
Once again you can\'t stay on topic.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
I don\'t know about you all, but these deaths over the Newsweek article are NOT a direct result from it. Please, you have GOT TO BE KIDDING if you are blind to the fact that EVERYBODY ACROSS THE GLOBE hates America and Americans(like Giga) right now. The Newsweek story just topped off the garbage and soon somebody is going to have to take it out. And let\'s guess who shall we Giga?
This has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read and this quote is its crowning achievement. Not only do make dumbass generalizations, but it also proves your tin foil hat is on too tight. The Newsweek article didn\'t cause the riots that resulted in people\'s deaths?
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/2713.asp
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/newsweek.quran/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050519/cm_usatoday/koranblundertranscendsmediavswhitehouse
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/20/AR2005052001856.html
I could list more. No that story didn\'t give them a reason to riot did it? "EVERYBODY ACROSS THE GLOBE hates America and Americans (like Giga)" <------ that quote proves you spawned at the shallow end of the gene pool.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Giga you are a moron. You know damn well that the Koran was probably tried to be flushed down a damn toilet. We all know damn well that we don\'t exactly know what the hell is going on in there and if our soldiers had the balls to make prisoners pile up nude and then take pictures then desecrating the Koran is a "minor" incident. It\'s scary though that Bush and his Goons are trying to completely deteriorate the media that does not agree with them.
I didn\'t give a flying fuck if it was flushed down the toilet - personally I wish they would wipe their asses with it and make the inmates eat it - then when they shit it out make you eat it. I don\'t care. You really need to take this post and go over to DU because you would fit right in with those asshats and their fucked up view of America. Bush and his Goons? This has nothing to do with Bush. You can\'t seperate anything in here from Bush can you?
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Of course, people like you Giga would rather slit your throat than to disagree with whatever BS this BS Administration is feeding you. You say that I hate this country. Nah. I hate Americans? Just the ones like you Giga. Do I blindly hate the president? Nah, I don\'t hate the man, just his ways.
Blah blah blah... do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? I don\'t even consider you American and never will. You don\'t blindly hate the President? "BS Administration" "Bush and his Goons" "Everybody hates America" - that is just this post alone. Stop contradicting yourself and trying to cover it up. You are a known liar on this board. Take some lessons from Core instead of spouting your nonsense and intermixed with your hatred for me. I could get really personal here regarding what I think of you and your views, but I digress...
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Newsweek is not to blame for the deaths. It\'s our government policies in general. And since when do we care when non-Americans die? You are worried about 15 deaths when soldiers die, EACH DAY, from people in Iraq that hate us even if the media published articles about how we want Bush to become a dictator.
Newsweek not at fault. You already said this and again you are wrong.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
Please Giga, you are an old fool. I don\'t know if you have or are going through menopause but just cool down will you?
So lets recap...
I would blame liberals if one of my nuts fell off.
The entire world hates me and America.
This administration is BS.
Bush has Goons that are trying to "frame" the media.
According to you I am a moron and an old fool...
Well Misstiq - you have topped some of your previous dumbass remarks with this jumbled and rambling post - I hope you are proud. Instead of blaming the story, which did not have sources and WAS RETRACTED - you blame Bush. How typical. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by SirMystiq
PS:
Asshats? WTF?
Asshat - ie. you.
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Originally posted by Black Samurai
That is because you are not muslim.
Not exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot, I wouldn\'t be shooting up a shit storm just because some Muslims pissed, shit, and vomited on the Bible. I understand that they\'re stupid pricks, and that would be that. You wouldn\'t see a riot over it.
shit > ryan seacrest > radical muslims
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I didn\'t give a flying fuck if it was flushed down the toilet - personally I wish they would wipe their asses with it and make the inmates eat it - then when they shit it out make you eat it.
:laughing:!
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
What a great post filled with idiotic statements, once again showing you have no clue about what really goes on in the world. Since you laced your post with insults, you won\'t mind if I return the favor will you? This isn\'t about the President it is about bad and unresponsible reporting. Stay on topic... oh thats right you can\'t - your post is idiotic rant about me and how much the world hates us! In case you hadn\'t noticed the story had been retracted - meaning they couldn\'t prove it, yet you know better then they do right Misstiq?
Once again you can\'t stay on topic.
I laced my post with insults? OMG, let\'s not do that. You braindead moron, you are the KING of "lacing" post with insults. So, I\'m just trying to mimic the master.
Are you ignoring all of the new information that the gov. is dishing out? They have heard "cases" where soldiers mishandled the damn Koran. Yet, you are sticking with that one instance. And I doubt that Newsweek retracted the story because they couldn\'t prove it, it was because of all the political pressure they are being put under. Man if I\'m blindfolded, you must be body wrapped.
And for the record-when I say "Bush and his goons" or "Bush" I\'m referring to the government in place. Get it? Bush is the leader, and his goons are his followers. And everybody that works for them are in the government. Sorry for lumping them up in one word, geez.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
This has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever read and this quote is its crowning achievement. Not only do make dumbass generalizations, but it also proves your tin foil hat is on too tight. The Newsweek article didn\'t cause the riots that resulted in people\'s deaths?
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/2713.asp
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/newsweek.quran/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050519/cm_usatoday/koranblundertranscendsmediavswhitehouse
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/20/AR2005052001856.html
I could list more. No that story didn\'t give them a reason to riot did it? "EVERYBODY ACROSS THE GLOBE hates America and Americans (like Giga)" <------ that quote proves you spawned at the shallow end of the gene pool.
Just like you, you take everyword literally and just eat it. I KNOW that the Newsweek story spawned protest. I KNOW that Newsweek\'s report was the cause of the rebellion. But you CAN\'T put all the blame on Newsweek. The government(Bush\'s people) should NOT put such pressure on a media source. They are intimidating the press, they come out and make the press look as anti-american as they can, yet they expect the press to publish good and "ohh look at us, we\'re great because we\'re american" stories like clockwork to keep idiotic, "patriotic", liberal hunting goons like you happy. Please.
Dumb generalizations? HAHA, and assuming that the people that were stirred from the story did it solely because they were insulted by the story and the story alone? Talk about irony.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I didn\'t give a flying fuck if it was flushed down the toilet - personally I wish they would wipe their asses with it and make the inmates eat it - then when they shit it out make you eat it. I don\'t care. You really need to take this post and go over to DU because you would fit right in with those asshats and their fucked up view of America. Bush and his Goons? This has nothing to do with Bush. You can\'t seperate anything in here from Bush can you?
Fucked up view of America? HAHAHAHA, dude you are proving each day that they are right about how you feel about them? Listen, why don\'t you go out and say that in public? Then you people wonder why this country was attacked and hated? PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT THINK LIKE YOU!! But you people never learn.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Blah blah blah... do you ever get tired of hearing yourself talk? I don\'t even consider you American and never will. You don\'t blindly hate the President? "BS Administration" "Bush and his Goons" "Everybody hates America" - that is just this post alone. Stop contradicting yourself and trying to cover it up. You are a known liar on this board. Take some lessons from Core instead of spouting your nonsense and intermixed with your hatred for me. I could get really personal here regarding what I think of you and your views, but I digress...
Newsweek not at fault. You already said this and again you are wrong.
Well, I don\'t know what you can really say about me and my views that you haven\'t really said. But I DON\'T CARE! Yes, the wonders of the internet-excuse me here in Texas it\'s "internets"
Well, I don\'t consider you a true patriotic American either so we\'re equal on that turf.
I don\'t "blindly" hate. I have reasons to hate. So it\'s not blind, I know why I hate. Get it? You on the other hand were are the WMD? Where is Osama? Where is the short quick war in Iraq? Damn right, NOWHERE. I don\'t give a fuck if other people shrink and let themselves be trained by you. I don\'t care what Cored does.
And it\'s not nonsense. It\'s just not things that you like to hear.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
So lets recap...
I would blame liberals if one of my nuts fell off.
The entire world hates me and America.
This administration is BS.
Bush has Goons that are trying to "frame" the media.
According to you I am a moron and an old fool...
Well Misstiq - you have topped some of your previous dumbass remarks with this jumbled and rambling post - I hope you are proud. Instead of blaming the story, which did not have sources and WAS RETRACTED - you blame Bush. How typical. :rolleyes:
Asshat - ie. you.
Yeah, the recap pretty much sums it up. If you stopped insulting people, because it\'s not just me, then I wouldn\'t try to insult anybody either. But since you do it, why shouldn\'t I? That is what I mean about your menopause syndrome.
Do I get a prize for this crowning achivement?
Well, I assumed that I was an "asshat" from your previous use of the word. But damn, did that skinny bitch Ann Coulter publish the "Conservative book of names to call liberals" or something?
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Originally posted by SirMystiq
.
Are you ignoring all of the new information that the gov. is dishing out? They have heard "cases" where soldiers mishandled the damn Koran. Yet, you are sticking with that one instance.
OMG somebody stepped on the Koran!!!! OMG human rights abusers! Like I said I don\'t care. For someone so anti religious I find it amusing that you care about this book so much. Hypocrite maybe? Yes you are that too.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
.And I doubt that Newsweek retracted the story because they couldn\'t prove it, it was because of all the political pressure they are being put under. Man if I\'m blindfolded, you must be body wrapped.
They retracted it for exactly that reason - THEY COULD NOT PROVE IT. You are so fucking dumb. Loosen your tin foil hat a bit kid.
Originally posted by SirMystiq
.
Just like you, you take everyword literally and just eat it. I KNOW that the Newsweek story spawned protest. I KNOW that Newsweek\'s report was the cause of the rebellion. But you CAN\'T put all the blame on Newsweek. The government(Bush\'s people) should NOT put such pressure on a media source. They are intimidating the press, they come out and make the press look as anti-american as they can, yet they expect the press to publish good and "ohh look at us, we\'re great because we\'re american" stories like clockwork to keep idiotic, "patriotic", liberal hunting goons like you happy. Please.
The press has made itself look like that and it happened long before Bush came into office - there goes that theory eh Misstiq?
Originally posted by SirMystiq
.
Fucked up view of America? HAHAHAHA, dude you are proving each day that they are right about how you feel about them? Listen, why don\'t you go out and say that in public? Then you people wonder why this country was attacked and hated? PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT THINK LIKE YOU!! But you people never learn.
Just when I think you can\'t possibly get more insane you pop this one off. America is the blame for 9/11 because of people like me! It doesn\'t have anything to do with Islamic Fundamentalism and their hatred of Western Culture would it? According to you everyone in 9/11 deserved what they got huh?
Taking a page from Ward Churchill now are you? He is a fucking scumbag and for your comment you are equal to him. Why don\'t you just leave this country. If what you say is true then most of America HATES YOU. So do yourself a favor and leave... oh yeah take your free loading family family with you.
I am done replying to your idiocy. Like I said before take it demorcraticunderground.com - you will fit right in.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
OMG somebody stepped on the Koran!!!! OMG human rights abusers! Like I said I don\'t care. For someone so anti religious I find it amusing that you care about this book so much. Hypocrite maybe? Yes you are that too.
HA. Again with the details. Your right, I could care less about religion except in cases where religion is used as an excuse to kill others. In this case, your comments are just a glimpse of the ignorance and idiocity that alot of "Americans" have about other cultures and religions that do not preach the stories that you all do. You don\'t care about the religion and would not care if our soldiers took a shit on a Koran in front of the prisoners? Fine, have it your way. That is why they don\'t care if they kill innocent Americans.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
They retracted it for exactly that reason - THEY COULD NOT PROVE IT. You are so fucking dumb. Loosen your tin foil hat a bit kid.
The press has made itself look like that and it happened long before Bush came into office - there goes that theory eh Misstiq?
They relied on a source that had been reliable in the past. Big deal. US officials are coming out with more and more "incidents" involved the mishandling of the Koran, the mistreatment of the prisoners and the degradation of life in that damn place.
The press has been in a decline I admit. But this scenario in where the gov. is putting such pressure on a media source has crossed the line. It is being done publicly and without reserve.
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Just when I think you can\'t possibly get more insane you pop this one off. America is the blame for 9/11 because of people like me! It doesn\'t have anything to do with Islamic Fundamentalism and their hatred of Western Culture would it? According to you everyone in 9/11 deserved what they got huh?
Taking a page from Ward Churchill now are you? He is a fucking scumbag and for your comment you are equal to him. Why don\'t you just leave this country. If what you say is true then most of America HATES YOU. So do yourself a favor and leave... oh yeah take your free loading family family with you.
I am done replying to your idiocy. Like I said before take it demorcraticunderground.com - you will fit right in.
There you go again stretching my words to fit your skewed opinions about liberals. No, I never said that everyone in 9/11 deserved to die. Nobody deserves to die in that manner. You know, I know it, the whole world knows it. But we shouldn\'t be blind the the different ideas and principles of other countries and people. Which is why America is hated so much. Too much fiddling on their affairs.
And it\'s not what "I said", it\'s what you said and it\'s not true. So most of America does not hate me.
Free loading family? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Please, don\'t kid yourself. From what I recall. We have never, EVER, been on any kind of welfare program provided by the government. Except Medicaid for my little brother once. But other than that, all my parents have they have worked for fool so that little "all illegal immigrants steal my job and take my money" BS that you racist SOBs like to preach just doesn\'t apply to my case.
You never answered where you go the word "asshat" from. Im seriously interested.
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You\'re really fucking annoying, you know that?
You came into this just to flame Giga, rather than to participate in the thread...
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Originally posted by Ashford
You\'re really fucking annoying, you know that?
You came into this just to flame Giga, rather than to participate in the thread...
heh heh...c\'mon ash some of their clashes are pretty entertaining and educational..;)...still a couple of levels below mm & soully debates..but close..oh and gentlemen (mystiq, giga)..can you guys cut down on the quoting?...extremely long quoting and responses i tend to skip..;)...
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Originally posted by Ashford
You\'re really fucking annoying, you know that?
You came into this just to flame Giga, rather than to participate in the thread...
I\'m annoying? What? I never intended to push lots and lots of buttons on anybody! WHAT?
How can you say I didn\'t participate? You damn know that\'s a lie. And if Giga can come in here and "flame" everybody that disagrees with him by judging on their intelligence and calling them "asshats" then why not me?
Or would you rather Giga stick his butt out a little bit for you to kiss?
Anyways that was off-topic...
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You are annoying Misstiq. but you have to learn when enough is enough. Reread your posts in this thread. READ THEM. Look how many times you flame me and don\'t bring up one logical point or serious debate. Then when someone calls you on it - you flame them by calling them an ass kisser. I and others have had enough of your mouth in this thread.
Keep it up in these forums and I will see to it you really have something to whine about.
Closed.