PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: NVIDIA256 on August 02, 2005, 02:26:00 PM
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Sony strategists may see a priced-down PS2 as all the company needs in \'06; would ride $99 sticker--and profits--all the way to 2007.
Buried in an analyst\'s memo, written shortly after last week\'s Electronic Arts earnings call, was a hidden gem. According to the widely read team at Wedbush Morgan Securities, Sony may delay the release of the PlayStation 3 until 2007--if exactly the right conditions prevail.
Currently, the console is slated to appear in Japan before the end of that company\'s fiscal year--March 31, 2006--and in North America before the end of 2006.
Given the right set of circumstances, however, that release window (at least in North America) could intentionally lag until after the 2006 holiday buying season.
In a research memo sent to investors, Wedbush senior analyst Michael Pachter set up the following scene for a delayed PS3 launch. It starts with the current-generation Xbox being priced down to $149 post-Xbox 360 launch, but no lower. Concurrent with that situation--an Xbox 360 at an unspecified price and the Xbox at $149--Sony would drop the price of the PlayStation 2 to $99.
There are two components to that pricing strategy: the first is that a $99 PS2 would offer a significant distraction as the 360 launches. As Pachter states: "We believe that the company will attempt to disrupt the Xbox 360 launch with a price cut, and as a result may succeed in diverting attention away from the higher-priced next-generation console."
In addition to the "diversion rationale" is the supporting fact that "the redesigned PS2 carries a manufacturing cost of less than $99," according to Pachter. New consoles are noteworthy for the fact that at the beginning of their manufacturing cycle, the units are sold at a loss. Given that the PS2, according to Pachter, would cost less to make than to sell, it behooves Sony to extend demand for that product for as long as possible. And if Microsoft takes the Xbox price no lower than $149 (still a loss for Microsoft, according to Pachter), Sony will find itself in a win-win situation.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/02/news_6129862.html
Any thoughts?
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do it
PS2 has plenty of juice left in it
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Only way that works is........
1: Sony finds enough solid titles to warrant a longer PS2 lifespan.
2: The extra year delay allows them to bring the price of the PS3 down, thus allowing more sales.
3: Fine tune launch titles, so they can take advantage of the later launch. A lot of people believe if a system launches later, it should have the better looking launch titles, this is something Sony will need to make sure of.
With that said, I think Sony will be hard pressed to find enough solid titles to warrant another year for the PS2. Not to mention, the PS2\'s are so widespread, I would certainly think the market has almost reached its potenial. Surely there are not that many more people out there that have not bought a PS2, that would buy one.
The amazing thing in the article, and while it certainly is not "new news", it still amazes me, is that MS at a price of $150 is STILL taking a loss on each console produced and sold. I would of thought they would of tackled some kind of engineering feat by now and they haven\'t.
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This would be a huge relief for Nintendo as they could comfortably slip into holiday 06.
This would do interesting things for the next console war, and could leave Microsoft hanging out to dry if they don\'t pick up some incredible steam in the first year of 360.
-Dan
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Meh, I would really like to be playing something similar to Killzone, as well as that UBI demo for PS3 at E3 in \'06 but oh well.
Nothing down the line for the PS2 interests me at all.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
it still amazes me, is that MS at a price of $150 is STILL taking a loss on each console produced and sold. I would of thought they would of tackled some kind of engineering feat by now and they haven\'t.
Heard that\'s because in part nVidia WON\'T BUDGE on pricing for its age-old ~Geforce 3 GPU. This is one of the main reasons MS ditched em and went with ATi.
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gotta learn the hard way, i guess
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I just want gothic3 and godfather on pc... consoles these days are getting boring.. hopefully the new line will boost my interest again. Tekken6 should atleast.
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Maybe if they release it later, it\'ll give Sony more time to crush the Xbox 360 power-wise. Either that or Sony is full of douche bags.
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I knew the world wide spring 06 release probably wasn\';t going to hold up, and this tells me more of the same
PS3 will release at about the same times as PS2 did, Spring in Japan, and Holiday season (October-November) in America.
No reason to rush this. I don\'t want to play fantavision as the best game on launch
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ps3 already crushes the xbox 2 "powerwise"
soully, give up on godfather
it\'s gonna suck
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If it\'s anything like mafia i\'ll be happy. The trailer looks alright, so we\'ll see.
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I\'m not terribly excited for the new consoles... i\'m more than happy with gaming on my PC. In a year or two i\'ll decide if i\'ll get a console or upgrade my rig.
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ps3 already crushes the xbox 2 "powerwise"
Care to provide evidence? I thought so
By the way mm it\'s called Xbox360, however I understand the angle your playing at. Might as well call Nintendo\'s next system "Nintendo 5" or "NES 5"
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What a surprise this thread was started by NIVIDIA256. :)
Souly, mark my words. The Godfather will blow nuts.
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Should not be any surprise, someone has to keep this section of the forum alive. :)
By the Way Samwise Sony potentially holding back is GOOD NEWS, this means that dev will have more time to build quality launch titles that hopefully will take advantage of the complex/powerful ps3 architecture. By the way it\'s my understanding that the Only reason Sony has aggressively tried to push the PS3 for next year was do to pressure from M$ 360
For instance XBOX360 first gen games will be nothing more than polish and a couple of extra nifty things. Aside from what M$ has said about XNA ease of use, XBOX and PS3 architecture is complex and it will take quite a bit of time and resources before the developers begin to really understand how to tap it\'s power. If SONY does indeed wait till 07 to launch the system, you can be well assured that it\'s lanuch will far surpress the 360\'s
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Well look at it this way, the PS2 was the most hyped, as well as the most sought after console EVER during launch. Even still, the launch games sucked.
SSX was fun, but forgettable. Tekken Tag was new graphics thrown on Tekken 3\'s age-old fighting system. So maybe polish is all a console needs to launch successfully.
If they are delaying they should just shoot for November 2006, 1 year after the sexbox.
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Given the right set of circumstances, however, that release window (at least in North America) could intentionally lag until after the 2006 holiday buying season.
This was the first thing to catch my eye. From that I gather the delay includes North America, and most probably Europe as well.
This looks like nothing more than an effort to milk the PS2 for all it\'s worth.
In a research memo sent to investors, Wedbush senior analyst Michael Pachter set up the following scene for a delayed PS3 launch. It starts with the current-generation Xbox being priced down to $149 post-Xbox 360 launch, but no lower. Concurrent with that situation--an Xbox 360 at an unspecified price and the Xbox at $149--Sony would drop the price of the PlayStation 2 to $99.
The Xbox being priced down to $149? It\'s already at $149, and has been for quite some time.
There are two components to that pricing strategy: the first is that a $99 PS2 would offer a significant distraction as the 360 launches. As Pachter states: "We believe that the company will attempt to disrupt the Xbox 360 launch with a price cut, and as a result may succeed in diverting attention away from the higher-priced next-generation console."
This is stupid. Early adopters are the people who are going to buy a Xbox 360 this fall, and they will not settle for a five year old console.
Anyone who is ready for next generation, and wants it, is going to have a Xbox 360. That is unless there are 360 shortages as I suspect there will be, and then they\'ll settle for an alternative gaming fix. My bet is that any early adopters of the Xbox 360 are well aware of what this generation has to offer and don\'t care about any price drops on current generation hardware.
For instance XBOX360 first gen games will be nothing more than polish and a couple of extra nifty things. Aside from what M$ has said about XNA ease of use, XBOX and PS3 architecture is complex and it will take quite a bit of time and resources before the developers begin to really understand how to tap it\'s power. If SONY does indeed wait till 07 to launch the system, you can be well assured that it\'s lanuch will far surpress the 360\'s
Apparently you haven\'t been paying attention. The launch games are more than spit and polish ports.
We won\'t see the graphical difference, if there is one, between Xbox 360 and PS3 until a couple years after each one is out. By the time Sony launches PS3, Xbox 360 developers will be going into their second generation titles. Plus MS could very well hold off on any price drops for the console, or introduce a platinum price, until PS3 is out.
I don\'t see what advantage Sony has by delaying the PS3, unless it\'s to reduce cost of the already costly components.
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Apparently you haven\'t been paying attention. The launch games are more than spit and polish ports.
Until I am shown the proof, you must understand my skepticism. PGR and some others like DOA4 seem to bring nothing more than a graphical facelift and some little extra nifty features. I mean seriously how can we expect 360 launch games to be more considering the limited amount of time these developers have in order to meet the deadline for launch . Devs will need allot more time before they can begin to exploit the 360. Until then it seems IMO, that most of what we will get in it\'s first year will be polish. GOW will probably be the first game to truly exhibit the 360\'s potential.
It\'s funny this is the first Gen that I will hold out on for a year. Both 360 and PS3 offer very little incentive to me as a consumer until I see results that I feel warrant the purchase of these 2, I will be more than happy with my PC.
I hope SONY follows through with the delay, hopefully by then when it PS3 launchs there will be some AAA content that will drive my interest in purchasing the machine. Plus maybe they can bring the price down a little by then.
M$ on the other hand is doing the smart thing by launching early even though they will not have much to show IMO for the first year. They need to position themselves better so that they can get a strong hold on the Market before SONY does with there PS3.
M$ IMO, had no better choice but to get the 360 out in the market first. If they delay 360, the SONY hype machine will do mega damage to them, even if 360 had better looking games and content if it launched within the same vicinity as PS3, people would still flock to SONY do to bran name recognition.
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We won\'t see the graphical difference, if there is one, between Xbox 360 and PS3 until a couple years after each one is out
I agree, I feel the factor which will determine the graphical outpput of each console will be primarly based which competitor has the better development tools. M$ does alot of talking about XNA, so what will be interesting is to see the proof in the pudding.
By the time Sony launches PS3, Xbox 360 developers will be going into their second generation titles. Plus MS could very well hold off on any price drops for the console, or introduce a platinum price, until PS3 is out.
That\'s defiantly what M$ will do, plus by SONY delaying the PS3, this gives Bungie more time to complete HALO 3, cause as it stands right now, I feel there is no way that they will be able to release Halo 3 on time to meet the current PS3 launch date.
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
I hope SONY follows through with the delay, hopefully by then when it PS3 launchs there will be some AAA content that will drive my interest in purchasing the machine. Plus maybe they can bring the price down a little by then.
[/b
I still don\'t see how this will benefit them in the long run.
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SSX was fun, but forgettable. Tekken Tag was new graphics thrown on Tekken 3\'s age-old fighting system. So maybe polish is all a console needs to launch successfully.
SSX as "fun"....Pushin\' it, bud.
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i still pop SSX in from time to time, great game
it wasn\'t fps/racing/platform/RPG # 343537
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I loved Tricky.
And when we\'re supposed to look forward to another Project Gotham Racing or Dead or Alive or Tekken SIX!, I can understand why consoles are becoming so much more boring.
(Disclaimer: Didn\'t do research - picked up opinions from this thread only)
And I\'m pretty leary of Godfather. First, I think it\'s by EA which means they\'re going to phone it in, anyway. But it\'ll probably end up some GTA knock-off with different clothes and less depth.
-Dan
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Mark my word, \'Godfather\' will suck. Not sure why Soul has grand delusions of it being anything but a sub-par movie based game.
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Originally posted by Rikku
This is stupid. Early adopters are the people who are going to buy a Xbox 360 this fall, and they will not settle for a five year old console.
Anyone who is ready for next generation, and wants it, is going to have a Xbox 360. That is unless there are 360 shortages as I suspect there will be, and then they\'ll settle for an alternative gaming fix. My bet is that any early adopters of the Xbox 360 are well aware of what this generation has to offer and don\'t care about any price drops on current generation hardware.
Your early adopters, who are they? I don\'t know many. I only know of a few on this video game chat board that say they want any next gen system on launch. Most say they will wait for better games for the system etc
The original Xbox didn\'t sell out at launch where I\'m at, I don\'t think it ever did. In fact, I think the older PS2 was in higher demand, maybe even the PS1. I remember looking at how many Xbox boxes were left compared to PS2. At times there wouldn\'t be any PS2 boxes left but there would be a ton of Xbox boxes left. I thought "how pathetic"
Even if the Xbox 360 sells out and there is a shortage, so what? 100% of the people I know/talk to got their system 6-12 months after it\'s initial release. These people are a much larger audience than earlier adopters as you call them.
By not being an early adopter, these people are not hardcore like their early adopter (as you like to call them) counterparts.
Non-hardcore gamers don\'t save up money to buy $300 consoles. They either wait for a price drop or tax return or something else.
Now lets say Mom A goes into a Electronic store. It his December 1. Little Johnny wants to play video games. Now Mom A is looking to buy him a system that will play video games. She sees the new Xbox 360 for $300 but she also sees the PS2 for $99.
What do you think Mom A will buy?
Now lets say Mom B goes into a Electronic store. It his December 1. Little Robert wants to play video games. Now Mom B is looking to buy him a system that will play video games. She sees a PS2 for $99. "Hey, this use to be $149," says Mom B. Where is the nex Xbox? Asks Mom B. We are sold out, says store Clerk A.
What do you think Mom B will buy?
Sony wins either way
Why rush the PS3? There is such a rabid fanbase they could release the thing in 2008 and it would still outsell everything. Who wants a buggy console? Who wants poor launch games?
I WANT Sony to delay the system. The games are so early they aren\'t even playable, heck, most of the games we\'ve seen so far aren\'t even \'real\'. TGS MAY have playable games. Don\'t rush this, Sony
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Mom B will never know that the PS2 dropped price, and you underestimate the power of Little Johnny.
Oh and an English class or two wouldn\'t hurt you.
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The current gen sucks ass. Their is nothing left in the ps2 for it too last 2 more fucking years. The console is so dated it is sad.
I already gave mine away and couldn\'t care less.
Just because the ps3 is so fucking expensive they want to try and wait and wait too drive cost down. Buy 2007 who gives a fuck about ps3 besides MM?
The ps3 will launch in spring 06 like expected. There is no life left in the ps2 to warrant 2 more years of dated play.
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I couldn\'t be bothered to read that nonsense that Alliswell posted.. I recommend an english class.
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guess you didnt read what Quddus wrote
it\'s like he wiped his ass and somehow maneged to find words and irrational thoughts in it, then posted it
There is no life left in the ps2 to warrant 2 more years of dated play.
:lmao:
dated play :laughing:
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Originally posted by alliswell
Your early adopters, who are they? I don\'t know many. I only know of a few on this video game chat board that say they want any next gen system on launch. Most say they will wait for better games for the system etc
The original Xbox didn\'t sell out at launch where I\'m at, I don\'t think it ever did. In fact, I think the older PS2 was in higher demand, maybe even the PS1. I remember looking at how many Xbox boxes were left compared to PS2. At times there wouldn\'t be any PS2 boxes left but there would be a ton of Xbox boxes left. I thought "how pathetic"
Even if the Xbox 360 sells out and there is a shortage, so what? 100% of the people I know/talk to got their system 6-12 months after it\'s initial release. These people are a much larger audience than earlier adopters as you call them.
By not being an early adopter, these people are not hardcore like their early adopter (as you like to call them) counterparts.
Non-hardcore gamers don\'t save up money to buy $300 consoles. They either wait for a price drop or tax return or something else.
Now lets say Mom A goes into a Electronic store. It his December 1. Little Johnny wants to play video games. Now Mom A is looking to buy him a system that will play video games. She sees the new Xbox 360 for $300 but she also sees the PS2 for $99.
What do you think Mom A will buy?
What do you think Mom B will buy?
Sony wins either way
Why rush the PS3? There is such a rabid fanbase they could release the thing in 2008 and it would still outsell everything. Who wants a buggy console? Who wants poor launch games?
I WANT Sony to delay the system. The games are so early they aren\'t even playable, heck, most of the games we\'ve seen so far aren\'t even \'real\'. TGS MAY have playable games. Don\'t rush this, Sony
What an absolute mess of words.
The early adopters are the people who shell out $300. They are the people who are willing to pay premium prices for a new console and for the few new games (no platinum level games early on and not a huge library). There are always early adopters, and now that Microsoft has created a name there will be a demand for the Xbox succesor.
The largest and most significant audience is the casual market. These are the people who don\'t jump on board until a price drop or two and a great number of games are available, and usually at cheaper prices.
Everyone starts at zero for this next generation. The longer Sony delays the release of the PS3, the more time they give Microsoft and their 360 to gain a casual market share, that which Sony thrives off of.
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Originally posted by mm
guess you didnt read what Quddus wrote
it\'s like he wiped his ass and somehow maneged to find words and irrational thoughts in it, then posted it
:lmao:
dated play :laughing:
Well you have to admit a 17fps Killzone 2 and a 30fps messy looking GTA4 may look slightly better on PS3.
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i don\'t have any delusions on if godfather will be good or not, i just prefer to play it before passing judgement. EA may not be the best company in the world, but they have done the odd good title here and there.
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Originally posted by mm
ps3 already crushes the xbox 2 "powerwise"
according to tech demos yes.But they look too good to believe that we will get the same results in real playable games.
For now I see things with a bit of skepticism
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I love being a late adopter. I bought a used PS2 (the sleek, small one) and Xenogears three days ago and am having a blast. Before that I was save-stating away on my SNES9x and being wowed by the inclusion of voices in Star Ocean and Tales of Phantasia. Thinking of getting FF7 and Chrono Cross next. I lost 4 years of gaming to the GPA and SAT. I\'ve got 50 days to make up for that before I head off to Cali for college. Life is bliss.
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Originally posted by THX
Well you have to admit a 17fps Killzone 2 and a 30fps messy looking GTA4 may look slightly better on PS3.
when did you become graphics whore #65672747?
if it looks the same as current 7th (or are we on 8th?) gen PS2 titles, and runs at 60fps, stfu and enjoy gaming
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PS1 still selling well, 10 years later. PS2 is selling very well, nearly 5 years later.
Casual gamers, specially those who are in a bind for cash, will buy the cheaper console like the $99 PS2 and their discounted games over the newer $300 Xbox and their $60 games. They will know the PS2 can play PSX games coz by now, I\'m sure even the most busy moms will have been told this from their kids.
It\'s not a bad strategy for Sony although it may back fire and either way, MS loves both scenerios. This gives them time to establish their user base, pump out more games. They\'ll have games to debut on the PS3 launch and such.
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Ahm....I dont think PS1 is selling well.It still sells but not well.But its true that the PS2 still has some life left.
I have my conscerns about PS3\'s probability of being delayied though.
2007 may be too late for PS3 to be released.Sony might be making profits till then but what happens if the XBOX360 succeeds to such an extend that the PS3 wont seem as a signifigantly better product to make many people prefer it?
PS2 may continue to sell but it wont make others not buy an XBOX360.XBOX360 will also sell.And it will have a lot more games available when the PS3 is released in 2007.
Not to mention that a whole year will give the chance to developers to exploit better the console\'s hardware.
Now you will say "well this counts also for PS3 thus we will have better games in 2007 than if it was released in 2006".
Thats debatable since developers will be motivated more to create more games on a released console on which their products can be sold.
Developing many games on an unreleased PS3 for a long time doesnt seem like a good idea to me especially now that games are more costy to make.
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PS1 is doing well, in terms of its age and current state of technology. Jeez, Unic, I think donkeys has more intelligence than you. You need to climb back up the trees and hang out with the chimps.
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screw that
we don\'t want him either
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2 more years of ps2 sounds like shit. I tired of the current gen a long time ago. Maybe in 2 years sony could come up with a less retarded looking controller.
In any case I don\'t think sony is dumb enough to launch there console in 2007 and xbox 360 is launching in 2005. I see it launching in 2006 spring like predicted.
Everything falls and comes to end. And a move like this would just seem dumb. IF true then all the analyst prediction of the fall of the sony error would start to look true.
But with all the hype and talk from the "father of playstation" Sony not launching in spring would make all the talk he done and boasting of the jake of all trades seem mute.
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Originally posted by Clyde
screw that
we don\'t want him either
WAAAHAHAHAHA! *falls off chair laffing* :laughing:
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Originally posted by Phil
Mom B will never know that the PS2 dropped price, and you underestimate the power of Little Johnny.
Oh and an English class or two wouldn\'t hurt you.
This tool is telling someone online to take English classes lol
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I see next gen game dev daily now.
Some games are indeed polish, but the big name projects are indeed :eek:
Personally I do think launch consoles are special. The graphics i see in development won\'t run as smoothly on the current average game pc (at gamer\'s enthusiast eye candy settings) as on Xbox360.
It\'s probably gonna be like this ; big name Xbox360 game will run and look great on Xbox360. That pc version of that game will probably only run decently at downscaled settings on a 3,2 Ghz pc with a 6800GT/X800 card.
PS2, has enough good games for me coming up ;
Okami by Capcom
Wanda & the Colossus by Sony
Formula One 2005 by Sony
etc.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
PS1 is doing well, in terms of its age and current state of technology. Jeez, Unic, I think donkeys has more intelligence than you. You need to climb back up the trees and hang out with the chimps.
Its you who didnt get the point ;)
What sells better and brings the most proft for Sony?PSone or PS2 ;)
It doesnt matter if it\'s doing "considerably well" in terms of its age, technology etc but how well relative to the other consoles(edit: and the revenues the company is targeting and costs).
If the PS2 didnt do well this "PSone\'s good state" wouldnt mean much to Sony except the fact that the next gen PS2 product was failing bringing losses.
With other words the product that brings the most revenue matters the most.PSX is only some extra revenue for Sony and nothing more.
If PS2 will be selling well considering its "state" in 2008 it wouldnt be enough to overshadow how well or badly PS3 will be doing and it wont be bringing the revenues Sony is targeting.
oh and btw
Originally posted by GmanJoe
WAAAHAHAHAHA! *falls off chair laffing* :laughing:
Clyde knows more spelling than you do.Not to mention that even I know how the word laughing is spelled :D
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grammar nazi
:rolleyes:
i would say that the PSone makes sony mega bucks. the thing probably costs then less than 5$ to produce one
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I like how I get called out but LIC slips under the radar. Maybe that\'s because HE STOLE MY INSULT :(.
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Originally posted by mm
grammar nazi
:rolleyes:
i would say that the PSone makes sony mega bucks. the thing probably costs then less than 5$ to produce one
link
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hard facts (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Generalization)
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Ok you answered to yourself.Now I want the other link.You know...the specific fact you are talking about? :rolleyes:
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http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1221
PS3 to support OS X.
WTF?
:)
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Originally posted by mm
grammar nazi
:rolleyes:
i would say that the PSone makes sony mega bucks. the thing probably costs then less than 5$ to produce one
But, obviously, as time marches on Sony can\'t simply rely on a past success that will inevitably fall off the gaming radar entirely. Also, I don\'t think that large retail stores sell Playstation one games anymore. That should signal that the console is on the down and out. Sony has moved on, and that is evident since there is a PS3 on the way.
It\'s my opinion that the current generation is past its prime. I think we\'ve seen the best the consoles have to offer in terms of ingenuity and innovation. Developers are outgrowing them so they naturally move on to new projects on more capable hardware. The longer Sony gives the competition in the market without challenging them the more a chance that either Microsoft or Nintendo can manage to create the image that they are at the forefront of the game (especially if the PS3 does not produce visuals that blow Xbox 360 and Revolution out of the water. Sony proved with their PS2, arguably the weakest console of this generation, that graphic horsepower isn\'t everything. Certainly not necessary to gain great market share).
I don\'t think Sony can afford to dwell on past success, and it won\'t do you much good, mm, to argue on it.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1221
PS3 to support OS X.
WTF?
:)
Did you expect anything less of a supercomputer?
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Originally posted by Rikku
I don\'t think Sony can afford to dwell on past success, and it won\'t do you much good, mm, to argue on it.
Sony\'s position for next gen is stronger and more secure than with PS2 launch.
They have less to lose now than in 2000.
ow... and OS X on Cell tech is purely bussiness driven development. Merely formalities to gain broader industry ground. It won\'t benefit nor \'damage\' gamers in any way.
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Sony\'s position for next gen is stronger and more secure than with PS2 launch.
Tell that to Nintendo when they were enjoying success from their Super Nintendo and further securing a stranglehold with their second generation hardware, and then taken aback before they ever entered the third generation by a competitor with a very different business model.
The N64 had the wildly popular Nintendo name to back it, and it was more powerful than the PS or Saturn. I don\'t think I have to tell you how that all worked out.
Nothing is for certain, and you\'d be a fool to assume otherwise.
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Originally posted by Rikku
Tell that to Nintendo when they were enjoying success from their Super Nintendo and further securing a stranglehold with their second generation hardware, and then taken aback before they ever entered the third generation by a competitor with a very different business model.
The N64 had the wildly popular Nintendo name to back it, and it was more powerful than the PS or Saturn. I don\'t think I have to tell you how that all worked out.
Nothing is for certain, and you\'d be a fool to assume otherwise.
No. Succes in the 8 bit/ 16 bit era games industry was based on completely different grounds.
The N64\'s \'failure\' (it was still pretty succesfull imo) was already rooted in it\'s hardware blueprints ; the cartridge system and hefty 3rd party license fees.
If you desperately wanna make a Nintendo to Sony comparison then I\'d say that the PS2 is like the NES and the PS3\'ll be the SNES.
PS4 is a different & open story....
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Originally posted by Knotter8
No. Succes in the 8 bit/ 16 bit era games industry was based on completely different grounds.
The N64\'s \'failure\' (it was still pretty succesfull imo) was already rooted in it\'s hardware blueprints ; the cartridge system and hefty 3rd party license fees.
Yes, the business decisions that Nintendo made had an effect on their success. The medium, the quality over quantity motiff, and their timing.
It proves that a once market leader (dominator) is hardly infallable, and, perhaps a greater lesson, to never underestimate the competition or overestimate your worth.
The N64 did enjoy success, but they\'ve lost even more market share since then. The Gamecube has yet to sell half of what the N64 did in its lifetime (<20 million compared to N64\'s 45+ million).
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That\'s a frightening statistic if it\'s accurate, Rikku.
I optimistic about the Revolution, though.
I\'m hoping that the wave of nostalgia is reaching out to lots of gamers, and that means old Nintendo games. Even today\'s young gamers will remember the popular N64 titles. And what if Sega throws some of its old games on the download service.
I\'m also predicting that gamers are getting bored with their PS2s and are ready to turn to Microsoft if they haven\'t already. If Microsoft provides more of the same, Nintendo could have that much more momentum.
-Dan
/optimistic Nintendo fan
//gonna get all 3 systems
///ripped off slash comments from Fark
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Well, Revolution is backwards compatible to the extreme. That\'s cool.
PS3 will be backwards compatible in about the same way PS2 is to PSone.
Xbox360 however, is a different story.
2nd generation Xbox 1 games will be playable on Xbox360 and it will require DL emulation software to make it work.
That means it\'ll cost the developer time and money to make their old Xbox 1 game work on the 360.
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Xbox360 however, is a different story.
2nd generation Xbox 1 games will be playable on Xbox360 and it will require DL emulation software to make it work.
That means it\'ll cost the developer time and money to make their old Xbox 1 game work on the 360.
One, Xbox doesn\'t have as big of a classic library as Sony or Nintendo.
Developers don\'t have to do anything to their Xbox games, nothing whatsoever. The Xbox 360 will emulate Xbox for the most popular Xbox games. If it can emulate those that are pulling the most graphic intensive loads (Halo 2, Conker, Ninja Gaiden, etc) then the less intensive titles shouldn\'t be a problem. Or so J Allard says.
EDIT: I just got what you meant by 2nd generation Xbox games. You mean games that come out for the Xbox after Xbox 360 is released. In that case I agree with you, and I perceive it as a problem. Not a big one though.
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Sony\'s position for next gen is stronger and more secure than with PS2 launch.
I kind of disagree here.Back in the PS1 days Saturn was a dead console. and Nintendo fell very much behind.There was only one name leading the console industry.
Everywhere you saw the name Playstation.But now despite that XBOX isnt selling a lot MS has managed to establish a strong name thanks to its financial ability.Unlike previously Sony faces a company with huge capital.
Nintendo also reduced its kiddish image.
Competition is much much stronger and Sony has put lots of high cost risk in its effort to ensure success.More time will be needed than previously until Sony can see profit from it.PS3 is a very costy hardware with newly implemented technologies and if things dont go according to plan they will go down the drain.
Thats why analysts expressed some concernds regarding Sony\'s current position
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One thing Nintendo is doing is getting its name in multiplatform magazines.
I think it\'s EGM this month that interviewed Miyamoto and Iwata and revealed a Zelda DS game is in the works.
If it can start getting coverage like that alongside Sony and Microsoft, it will bring its system back to the forefront where it\'s practically been a two system battle.
-Dan
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This may be a smart thing for Sony. The PS2 has a large base and some cool games coming out and it just may be able to last a little longer. The delay can give Sony a chance to get some better games to take advantage of it\'s hardware. Just imagine a first gen ps3 game that almost takes full advantage of the system.
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Originally posted by Skippy
This may be a smart thing for Sony. The PS2 has a large base and some cool games coming out and it just may be able to last a little longer. The delay can give Sony a chance to get some better games to take advantage of it\'s hardware. Just imagine a first gen ps3 game that almost takes full advantage of the system.
I dont think that PS3 will make PS2 have less support or sales if its released in 2006.Sony will continue supporting it and not everyone will want to purchase an expensive console with a $500 price tag.Some people will continue buying PS2 consoles and games.
Also I dont expect developers to take full advandage of the console\'s performance since they will have more motives to spend on game development on a console that can sell their products.They need the revenues.Spending on PS3 for too much time without selling their game generates only expenses.
I wouldnt want to see first gen games that will look as good as the future gen games either.I like seeing great improvements from gen to gen
I also believe that the console will be a lot cheaper in 2007 if it is released in 2006 than if its released in 2007
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Everywhere you saw the name Playstation.But now despite that XBOX isnt selling a lot MS has managed to establish a strong name thanks to its financial ability.Unlike previously Sony faces a company with huge capital.
What do you mean by "Xbox isn\'t selling"? It has been selling, enough to keep it in the number two position worldwide and it has been gaining popularity(sales) steadily ever since its debut. It\'s the only console this generation that has not seen a decline in sales over its lifetime. Microsoft\'s Xbox division has finally turned a profit thanks to the software side of things, but their hardware continues to be a black hole.
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Originally posted by Rikku
What do you mean by "Xbox isn\'t selling"? It has been selling, enough to keep it in the number two position worldwide and it has been gaining popularity(sales) steadily ever since its debut. It\'s the only console this generation that has not seen a decline in sales over its lifetime. Microsoft\'s Xbox division has finally turned a profit thanks to the software side of things, but their hardware continues to be a black hole.
Second position because GC is selling worse ;)
Steady sales because of MS\'s financial ability and the fact that it was never selling a lot
And I was mainly refering to hardware sales.
btw I said "isnt selling a lot" not "isnt selling" ;)
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Originally posted by Skippy
This may be a smart thing for Sony. The PS2 has a large base and some cool games coming out and it just may be able to last a little longer. The delay can give Sony a chance to get some better games to take advantage of it\'s hardware. Just imagine a first gen ps3 game that almost takes full advantage of the system.
Sony would be foolish to stand in one spot too long while their competition moves forward. They should ride a wave of momentum right into the next generation, not try to pick it back up while their adversaries cover more ground. I\'ve already said it once but I\'ll say it again, everyone starts at zero next gen.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Second position because GC is selling worse ;)
Steady sales because of MS\'s financial ability and the fact that it was never selling a lot
And I was mainly refering to hardware sales.
btw I said "isnt selling a lot" not "isnt selling" ;)
What has MS\'s financial ability to do with the public\'s eagerness to pick up an Xbox? Last I checked Microsoft isn\'t giving away Xboxes or selling them with $100 bills inside.
Never selling alot? Last year the Xbox managed to outsell the PS2 three times according to NPD numbers. Also the Xbox was selling some 200,000+ every month. The Xbox managed to sell over 20 million consoles now, and considering that Japan (the number two market) doesn\'t buy Xbox I\'d say that\'s a pretty impressive feat. I\'m sure you\'ll say otherwise or come up with a ridiculous excuse though...I can\'t wait to read it.
The fact that Microsoft managed to land itself in the number two position over Nintendo says something. Perhaps something of a negative tone for Nintendo, but of a good one for Microsoft.
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Originally posted by Rikku
What has MS\'s financial ability to do with the public\'s eagerness to pick up an Xbox? Last I checked Microsoft isn\'t giving away Xboxes or selling them with $100 bills inside.
They can spend great amounts on adverdising and commercials
Never selling alot? Last year the Xbox managed to outsell the PS2 three times according to NPD numbers. Also the Xbox was selling some 200,000+ every month. The Xbox managed to sell over 20 million consoles now, and considering that Japan (the number two market) doesn\'t buy Xbox I\'d say that\'s a pretty impressive feat.
Thats because PS2 sales have dropped.I dont recall XBOX selling 3 times as much for the whole year though.I remember XBOX\'s increasing sales for a couple of months thanks to a certain sequel->Halo2
I\'m sure you\'ll say otherwise or come up with a ridiculous excuse though...I can\'t wait to read it.
I wonder why the ironic and offensive attitude towards me.We are only discussing.I didnt even say if XBOX is bad or good.
You just took a 2 line part out of a whole post and made a big issue out of it while it was pointing to a different subject
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Only place ps3 has a strong hold on is japan. Outside of japan playstation 3 is good for the taking. Especally with the backlash sony has gotten with the awful ps3 controller and the expensive price tag.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
They can spend great amounts on adverdising and commercials
As if Sony or Nintendo can\'t? Marketing and advertising is part of the business, but it doesn\'t make people buy the product.
Thats because PS2 sales have dropped.I dont recall XBOX selling 3 times as much for the whole year though.I remember XBOX\'s increasing sales for a couple of months thanks to a certain sequel->Halo2
Actually, PS2 sales have been quite good as of late. There have been some declines, but they were usually followed by a sharp rise in sales. Overall the PS2 remains a great seller, and the usual numbers coming the last year were a little over 200,000/month. The Xbox managed to match, and, for three months, beat it. The first time I believe was in April (way before Halo 2), the second time in June (again, before Halo 2), and the third in November (the month of Halo 2). That\'s not a testament to Microsoft\'s funds, instead it\'s a clear sign that Microsoft is doing something right and that it\'s not just about Halo.
I wonder why the ironic and offensive attitude towards me.We are only discussing.I didnt even say if XBOX is bad or good.
It\'s frustrating that you never have all the facts, but you make arguements and debate as if you do.
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Originally posted by Rikku
As if Sony or Nintendo can\'t? Marketing and advertising is part of the business, but it doesn\'t make people buy the product.
Ofcourse they can.Thats what Sony is good at.But Nintendo is no match to Sony or MS when it comes to adverdising.
There is a reason why they make advertisments and marketing.Can you guess why?
Actually, PS2 sales have been quite good as of late. There have been some declines, but they were usually followed by a sharp rise in sales. Overall the PS2 remains a great seller, and the usual numbers coming the last year were a little over 200,000/month. The Xbox managed to match, and, for three months, beat it. The first time I believe was in April (way before Halo 2), the second time in June (again, before Halo 2), and the third in November (the month of Halo 2). That\'s not a testament to Microsoft\'s funds, instead it\'s a clear sign that Microsoft is doing something right and that it\'s not just about Halo.
Well OKEY (sheesh) "tries to find where he said XBOX is bad"
It\'s frustrating that you never have all the facts, but you make arguements and debate as if you do.
Frustrating?
Dear lord here we go again.Not you too
"....You just took a 2 line part out of a whole post and made a big issue out of it while it was pointing to a different subject"
Sorry.I wont insult XBOX again.
Jesus
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There are 2 factors :
1 - the initial consumer reaction to each consoles\' official launch date, price and launchgame list.
2 - the consumer reaction to the game reviews and hands-on play experience.
Point #1 is the spark, but point #2 is the decisive one.
MS has a really good console. They do however realize that Sony and Nintendo have all the time in the world.
The geeky early adopters might be very eager to get their hands on the first next gen console, the Xbox360, but we all know that the decisive sales succes will come from hardcore gamers who want value for money and the mass mainstream gamers ; by the time these ppl make a decision, the reviews will be pouring in.
So, that puts the pressure on Xbox360 and it\'s games to be as good as it can be for a lowest possible price.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Ofcourse they can.Thats what Sony is good at.But Nintendo is no match to Sony or MS when it comes to adverdising.
There is a reason why they make advertisments and marketing.Can you guess why?
To create awareness, an image, and ultimately sell their product. But it still doesn\'t force people to buy it. The consumer ALWAYS has the choice, and 20+ million people made the choice to buy an Xbox. It\'s the same exact way Sony and Nintendo do things.
Perhaps it surprises you that people buy Xbox for the games, I mean, what a foreign concept. There are good games outside of Playstation land? I, having owned all three consoles for nearly three years, can tell you there is. Perhaps it would even perplex you to know that my Xbox is the only system in play at the moment.
Nintendo can do just fine with marketing and advertising, they just do things differently because they cater to a different audience than Sony or Microsoft. I see far more Nintendo tv commercials (whether it be for a GC game, GBA, or DS) and Sony ads (Playstation 2, PSP) than I do for Xbox. It\'s my opinion that Microsoft could do much better at the advertising game.
Sorry.I wont insult XBOX again.
Jesus
I didn\'t accuse you of insulting Xbox, but it seems your guilty conscience has tattled on you. I don\'t see how you perceive Sony or MS differently when it comes to their business practices. They are, in large part, very similar and the reason for that is Sony has managed to create a gargantuan user base. Microsoft wanted a piece of the same pie that Sony enjoys so they mimiced them in most all facets of the business. How do you justify insulting Microsoft over Sony?
Just an FYI, Microsoft is aiming for a new customer base in an effort to expand the market much like Sony did some 10 years ago. That\'s what J Allard meant when he said they want one billion gamers, it wasn\'t the targeted userbase for Xbox 360 but instead a challenge for the videogame competitors to push themselves to make the market grow. This is why Microsoft is trying to change their image (the off-white color, softer font, Xbox Live and Xbox Marketplace, XNA). If anything you should be hoping that Microsoft\'s efforts pay off. Oh, and don\'t be scared for Sony, they aren\'t going anywhere.
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Originally posted by Knotter8
There are 2 factors :
1 - the initial consumer reaction to each consoles\' official launch date, price and launchgame list.
2 - the consumer reaction to the game reviews and hands-on play experience.
Point #1 is the spark, but point #2 is the decisive one.
MS has a really good console. They do however realize that Sony and Nintendo have all the time in the world.
The geeky early adopters might be very eager to get their hands on the first next gen console, the Xbox360, but we all know that the decisive sales succes will come from hardcore gamers who want value for money and the mass mainstream gamers ; by the time these ppl make a decision, the reviews will be pouring in.
So, that puts the pressure on Xbox360 and it\'s games to be as good as it can be for a lowest possible price.
I agree with everthing except your last point. Why does the Xbox 360 have to be at the lowest price possible?
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Originally posted by Rikku
I agree with everthing except your last point. Why does the Xbox 360 have to be at the lowest price possible?
Becuz that\'s a knock out opportunity for MS becuz the 360 will be the first next gen console.
- If the xb360 launch price is pretty low ; more incentive to gamers to get xb360 immediately
- if xb360 launch price is high ; more incentive to gamers to take PS3 and Revolution into consideration.
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Becuz that\'s a knock out opportunity for MS becuz the 360 will be the first next gen console.
- If the xb360 launch price is pretty low ; more incentive to gamers to get xb360 immediately
- if xb360 launch price is high ; more incentive to gamers to take PS3 and Revolution into consideration.
Why are you under the impression that Microsoft has to, or might have to, lowball the competition and the consumer in order to sell a 360?
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Then again, if Sony does launch with a $400 price tag, MS will be able to easily "lowball" them. I would imagine that Nintendo will once again launch at $250.
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Originally posted by Rikku [/i]
To create awareness, an image, and ultimately sell their product. But it still doesn\'t force people to buy it. The consumer ALWAYS has the choice, and 20+ million people made the choice to buy an Xbox. It\'s the same exact way Sony and Nintendo do things.
I DIDNT mean that people WRONGLY THINK that XBOX is good because of adverdising.
Perhaps it surprises you that people buy Xbox for the games, I mean, what a foreign concept. There are good games outside of Playstation land? I, having owned all three consoles for nearly three years, can tell you there is. Perhaps it would even perplex you to know that my Xbox is the only system in play at the moment.
Quote me the part I said XBOX doesnt have good games.
Nintendo can do just fine with marketing and advertising, they just do things differently because they cater to a different audience than Sony or Microsoft. I see far more Nintendo tv commercials (whether it be for a GC game, GBA, or DS) and Sony ads (Playstation 2, PSP) than I do for Xbox. It\'s my opinion that Microsoft could do much better at the advertising game.
Lets not start over again shall we?
I didn\'t accuse you of insulting Xbox, but it seems your guilty conscience has tattled on you.
Yeah yeah thats why you wrongly assumed so much from my post
I don\'t see how you perceive Sony or MS differently when it comes to their business practices. They are, in large part, very similar and the reason for that is Sony has managed to create a gargantuan user base. Microsoft wanted a piece of the same pie that Sony enjoys so they mimiced them in most all facets of the business. How do you justify insulting Microsoft over Sony?
Quote me where I said that MS and Sony differ.Ofcourse Sony had a similar business strategy.Whats your point?You assumed again?
Just an FYI, Microsoft is aiming for a new customer base in an effort to expand the market much like Sony did some 10 years ago. That\'s what J Allard meant when he said they want one billion gamers, it wasn\'t the targeted userbase for Xbox 360 but instead a challenge for the videogame competitors to push themselves to make the market grow. This is why Microsoft is trying to change their image (the off-white color, softer font, Xbox Live and Xbox Marketplace, XNA). If anything you should be hoping that Microsoft\'s efforts pay off. Oh, and don\'t be scared for Sony, they aren\'t going anywhere.
Ok whatever but irrelevant
(*sheesh* you understood all these from a 2 line sentence?)
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Can be please stop quoting every line.
This is getting as bad as the official World of Warcraft forums... for Assclownery.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
(*sheesh* you understood all these from a 2 line sentence?)
Then you need to get better about getting your point across. In the mean time I\'ll work on dropping any assumptions that you swing from Sony\'s nutsack. j/k...kinda.;)
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I couldnt analyze 2 lines that werent pointing to the things you assumed just in case someone does assume while I am trying to point to something else and on which I already posted complete thoughts about without worrying if others would stick on 2 lines while avoiding the rest of the post :p
Sony\'s nutsack?...Kinda? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I couldnt analyze 2 lines that werent pointing to the things you assumed just in case someone does assume while I am trying to point to something else and on which I already posted complete thoughts about without worrying if others would stick on 2 lines while avoiding the rest of the post :p
Sony\'s nutsack?...Kinda? :rolleyes:
Can anyone translate this for me?
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yea, it\'s a bit on the "Where the fuck is the full stop" side. People should read things back to themselves before posting.
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Originally posted by Rikku
Can anyone translate this for me?
Basically.....he thinks his replies have been misinterpreted.
Hot Ironing. :p
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I couldnt analyze 2 lines that werent pointing to the things you assumed just in case someone does assume while I am trying to point to something else and on which I already posted complete thoughts about without worrying if others would stick on 2 lines while avoiding the rest of the post :p
Sony\'s nutsack?...Kinda? :rolleyes:
What the hell are you? A kid with ADD on crack?!?! There is no way anyone can translate that garbage.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I couldnt analyze 2 lines that werent pointing to the things you assumed just in case someone does assume while I am trying to point to something else and on which I already posted complete thoughts about without worrying if others would stick on 2 lines while avoiding the rest of the post :p
Sony\'s nutsack?...Kinda? :rolleyes:
I hope you die! ...
I hope you fucking die!
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Politiepet please post something that has to do with the thread for once since you are better than I am at it?
You only post whenever you get the the chance to act like a "wise guy" :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
What the hell are you? A kid with ADD on crack?!?! There is no way anyone can translate that garbage.
Basically its almost what GmanJoe said.But Its funny that I wasnt trying to be serious with that post.I intentionally made it that way as a self-sarcasm yet like always you found the perfect chance (AGAIN) to insult me.
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easy guys, clyde is getting impatient
:rpissed:
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Clyde needs a banana.
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Originally posted by ooseven
Can be please stop quoting every line.
Good idea, it is annoying.
Originally posted by ooseven
This is getting as bad as the official World of Warcraft forums... for Assclownery.
Is it?
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I couldnt analyze 2 lines that werent pointing to the things you assumed just in case someone does assume while I am trying to point to something else and on which I already posted complete thoughts about without worrying if others would stick on 2 lines while avoiding the rest of the post :p
Sony\'s nutsack?...Kinda? :rolleyes:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebaumsworld.com%2Fforumfun%2Fnegative8.jpg&hash=2500072f988654f005491773da0a1ce1bc63d68c)
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http://playstation.about.com/od/ps3/ss/PS3Pics.htm
not sure, but these are pics of the unit... from what i\'ve seen on other forums they are real.I personaly doubt it.
If this has been posted already bah, like i care..
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yea they got posted like 3 months ago at E3...
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the controller looks retarded
kinda looks like a banana.........i like it.
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:laughing: