PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: NVIDIA256 on August 14, 2005, 07:50:19 AM
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Below I have provided the Carmack Keynote speech, which took place at the id Software Special Presentation. Also At the bottom I have provided links for those of you whom are further interested in seeing the full keynote speech
video.
John Carmack is the most respected Game Engine coder/designer, this man tends to be very honest and conservative about his views and his analytical opinions are usually spot on .This man in his speech cuts right through the SONY and M$ BS marketing hype, and gives us the real low down on the development of multi-processor coding. Some things Mr. Carmack has noted are:
-Carmack not happy with Microsoft\'s stance on OpenGL vs. D3D
-Carmack warns that technology in next-gen consoles when looked at in a practical/realistic manner is not nearly "as powerful as it sounds"
- The "return" from multi-processing on future platforms won\'t be as glorious as some originally thought Parallel programming = tough, even on consoles; performance benefit vs. extra time may not be worth it. not for a while.
- Carmack is not looking forward to separate physics cards; too complicated and when heavily used, they will slow game down.
- $100 million games are just around the Corner
Carmack seemed to side alot more with Microsoft than Sony;(keep in mind he still feels that both Cell And Xenon have there problems) seemed to "shrug" off Cell processor for design reasons. There will be the developers that go ahead and have a miserable time and do get good performance out of some of these multi-core approaches, and the Cell is worse than others in some respects here" None the less he then proceeds to point out the x360\'s shortcomings in detail.
Also he said that IBM made a misstep with PS3 Cell processor into thinking that the Graphics aspect is already been done, and we should concentrate on CPU power for physics and AI only, which Carmack thinks is way off base. The Cell processor he Suggested was made for Physics and AI and its graphics capability is not that high. (Please bear in mind if you listen or watch his speech he does not go out and bash the Cell or 360 instead the man is very respectful and cautious in regards to how he approachs each subject.
Also he discusses the ps1, Sega Saturn, the ps2 and how all development went on them etc... and also the Xbox
Then get\'s into detail about AI in game development and how it\'s more cutting edge than Graphics
Much more is discussed in detail, If any one is a game fan you must download the video it\'s 240mb(90 min long very interesting none of it is boring) I have provided a torrent file link. Download took me about 10 min
Download Video----->
http://www.filerush.com/torrents/QuakeConCarmackKeynote.zip.torrent
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Read about it some days ago.It was discussed a lot in beyon3d forums.
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you must download it, trust me it\'s good.
Reading is one thing, actually listening to this man speak is another
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Unfortunately I have a 56k modem.No broadband to download :(
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damn
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It sounds like a bunch of whining to me. Besides, he\'s made like one game in the past five years, and it wasn\'t anything to write home about. What does he matter?
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It sounds like a bunch of whining to me. Besides, he\'s made like one game in the past five years, and it wasn\'t anything to write home about. What does he matter?
He is just the best Engine coder/designer ever. Carmack does not really make games per say , he is the architect behind state of the art, engines for the industry which act as the barometer of all other engines. This man\'s quake 3 engine has generated over 1 Billion dollars within the industry.
What is it when well known developers have a different take on the new next gen hardware that does not coincided with the hype/marketing claims of the company\'s promoting them , that it\'s then considered whining. So far Mr. Carmack makes quite legitimate and realistic points, unlike most developers whom love making far fetch claims about what they will achieve on next gen hardware which usually never manifests itself.
This man as I have said earlier is very conservative about his goals and expectations, it is for that reason that HE has always come on top when it comes to implementing state of the art features that have real practicality in game engines for example unified lighting and shadowing meaning most light sources are computed on the fly. This allows lights to cast shadows even on non-static objects such as monsters or machinery, which was impossible with static light maps the doom3 engine allows this, also look how efficiently coded it was to utilized both the amd and intel chips, and how beautifully it ran on various types of hardware. This guy is the father of Game engines. He may not be a great game designer anymore, but his engines are top notch.
Anyways My main point is MR Carmack has credibility and along with that a great deal of respect. Therefore his insights and opinions do go along way when viewed upon by many people. This isn\'t some team ninja or 3rd rate developer stating there limited opinion on whom ever\'s hardware. This is John Carmack.
:D
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By the way I hope people download the video before they make any comments, cause other wise they will not fully understand the depth of what Mr Carmack is really saying.
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oh you pc nerds just splooge over him because you saw that pic of him with his long flowy hair in front of a red Ferrari :D
There has to be SOME potential for multiple-threaded gaming. I think these game developers need to scratch the surface & actaully design a game that can take advantage of this technology before making anymore negative comments on the subject.
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"Mr. Carmack"
Wow
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Originally posted by Phil
"Mr. Carmack"
Wow
Seriously.
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Originally posted by Rikku
It sounds like a bunch of whining to me. Besides, he\'s made like one game in the past five years, and it wasn\'t anything to write home about. What does he matter?
I\'m with you! maybe he likes programming only on PC, and he never put his hands on PS3 final hardware, and he will never do...only BS....maybe IBM know a bit more how to develop a competitive CPU than Mr. Carmack:rolleyes:
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In a few years time when the industry adjusts to the new patent he wont be complaining anymore ;)
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The Cell has the same fundmental problems the Saturn had. Multi processor systems are hard to develop for, when finally "cracked" so to speak, they do great, but it is a huge learning curve.
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All good points made here!
Aside from the whole Xeneon and Cell subject, Carmack get\'s into other interesting points about the previous consoles all of which he worked on. Download the video, those of you with Broadband.
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It\'s a huge learning curve that\'s here to stay though, saturn tried doing the whole multi-processing thing too early.
Every viable gaming platform (except maybe Revolution) will have dual processor design. Designers need to quit bitching and figure it out.
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I understand, but this is the problem for those whom have not seen the video, Carmack is not bitching about it, all he does is point out the challenges and mistakes he thinks the hardware people made.
If you read the bulletin points I can understand why it might come across as bitching.
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
The Cell has the same fundmental problems the Saturn had. Multi processor systems are hard to develop for, when finally "cracked" so to speak, they do great, but it is a huge learning curve.
Not exactly.Sega didnt have the appropriate tools either to help developers.
Sega decided to change the architecture of their original hardware only months before its release so no tools, not tested and generally as Jbean said Sega decided too early for something the industry viewed as an "alien".
And if I am not mistaken Sega had 2 separate processors not one multicore processor.
Sony and MS on the other hand have spend years and money on R&D and tools so things would be more efficient on a time were the industry is adjusting slowly.
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Yep ! Sony are providing a lot of software and development tools ! They learnt from PS2 experience, and I really don\'t see any problem, this time we have an ultra balanced and powerful piece of hardware and tools and everything coming...
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Originally posted by BizioEE
Yep ! Sony are providing a lot of software and development tools ! They learnt from PS2 experience, and I really don\'t see any problem, this time we have an ultra balanced and powerful piece of hardware and tools and everything coming...
When your done programming for ps3 lets us all know how easy it was to program for
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That\'s exactly what I was thinking. You people can\'t even make an \'hello world\' program on your box and here you are trying to diss Carmack. That\'s a bit much.
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Originally posted by Avatarr
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. You people can\'t even make an \'hello world\' program on your box and here you are trying to diss Carmack. That\'s a bit much.
well, when I was 13 I programmed a game similar to Quix in Hi-soft basic on Amica 500, but it was a different thing:p
and when Mr Carmack will develop on PS3 final hardware with more tools, then I\'m going listening his words.....
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Originally posted by BizioEE
well, when I was 13 I programmed a game similar to Quix in Hi-soft basic on Amica 500, but it was a different thing:p
and when Mr Carmack will develop on PS3 final hardware with more tools, then I\'m going listening his words.....
Your bashing carmack when you know nothing about video game programming on any system. This guy is respected in the game.
I am sure he has looked over and observed each specs for each console. He knows his shit.
You will be playing the games not programming them so why do you care so much?
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Originally posted by QuDDus
Your bashing carmack when you know nothing about video game programming on any system. This guy is respected in the game.
I am sure he has looked over and observed each specs for each console. He knows his shit.
You will be playing the games not programming them so why do you care so much?
it\'s not enough looking over specs, Mr Carmack has to program on PS3 a couple of years before telling everyone "IBM should...IBM should not..."...IBM made a misstep with PS3 Cell processor.....thst\'s my opinion, QuDDus relax, we can\'t change anything:)
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Originally posted by BizioEE
it\'s not enough looking over specs, Mr Carmack has to program on PS3 a couple of years before telling everyone "IBM should...IBM should not..."...IBM made a misstep with PS3 Cell processor.....thst\'s my opinion, QuDDus relax, we can\'t change anything:)
True, true. If we could, we\'d put a muzzle over you.
:p
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
True, true. If we could, we\'d put a muzzle over you.
:p
:p
I know someone would do the same with you....:)
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Originally posted by BizioEE
:p
I know someone would do the same with you....:)
So true, so true.
;)