PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: NVIDIA256 on August 19, 2005, 10:39:32 AM
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http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=796&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=2
The article is 3 pages long. The first page which I will post here deals with the Developers comments. The second page explores the media\'s reaction which seems not to be that good and then the 3rd page we hear what the The Analysts have to say.
Developers and Publishers
Lyle Hall
Studio director
Heavy Iron Studios
"From a developer and publisher perspective, it makes no difference
to us today in how we build our games for Xbox360 because Microsoft has
instructed us in advance to assume no hard drive from a technical
requirements standpoint.
"Longterm, it could limit some of the console\'s technical potential if you have a fairly fractured audience from launch. However, that is always adjustable by the right absolute must-have game coming out that requires the hard disk. For the retailers, its initial consumer appeal to the casual gaming audience is more limited than last time because the Xbox360 does not offer any new mass market product
innovation like the previous console did in supporting DVD movie
playback."
CS Weaver
Founder
Bethesda Softworks
Also Visiting Scholar at M.I.T
"The idea of selling a $299 \'basic\' (read crippled) version of the new Xbox may make for minor bragging rights and a little press, but it is akin to buying a Ferrari F430 only to find that while the car is beautiful and has a powerful engine, the model you bought lacks a transmission capable of getting out of first gear. You may be able to rev the deep-throated engine and impress the neighbors, but in truth, you will barely be able to get out of the garage.
"This is one of those silly market concepts dreamed up by a middle-aged, non-gamer who once worked at Proctor and Gamble. To him or her I say, \'Stick to Tide and Pringles.\'
"With the original Xbox, I admired Microsoft for having the imagination to incorporate an Ethernet connector. Even though they got the initial timing wrong, it was a leap of faith by a major player who showed the industry they were willing to back a vision. The current play of $299 for a box that is inadequate in order to have bragging rights over Sony is as bad an idea as the RJ45 connector was a good one.
"So, listen up Microsoft - never disrespect your audience. We will understand if you tell us that you cannot match PS3 in price because of the different approach you have taken in order to achieve a better end result. But do NOT confuse the retail chain with a near worthless SKU and try to pull one over on your public for the right to play shell games with price when the PS3 is released next year.
"That is a recipe for more bad word of mouth than any \'under $300\' price will ever achieve in the hearts and minds of your customers. It takes fourteen positive impressions to register “awareness” with a consumer. It takes but one negative impression to wipe it out. I figure with your initial leap of faith added to this latest stupid pet trick, you’re just about even…
Doug Hare
VP of product development
The Collective
"From a developer perspective, I don\'t see [Microsoft\'s decision] having much of an impact other than that most, if not all, games will be developed to function perfectly well without any reliance on a hard drive. If it gets the platform into the hands of more consumers then it surely must be a good thing for the industry."
Scott Miller
CEO
3D Realms
"One word: Blunder. Developers will almost always cater to the lowest spec\'ed system when it comes to consoles, so as to maximize the customer base. So, my guess is that few games will truly make significant use of the hard drive, given that it\'s an option that cannot be counted on."
David Perry
President
Shiny Entertainment
"I\'ve personally always been a big fan of being able to upgrade stuff I own. It\'s like adding a 2GB memory stick to your PSP, when some people are happy with the poopy 32MB card that comes with it, I\'m not. It\'s like buying a car with an optional GPS built in or not. I hate not having the choice. Choice is your friend. I\'ve been pushing for it for years on the consoles. I even had a friend that once built a prototype console, into which you could add as many processors as you could afford.
"The PC model is the example, giving gamers the experience they are happy to pay for. Xbox 360 actually beats the PC as there\'s a common high-quality 3D baseline, so you can only go upwards. I hope Microsoft enjoys the experience from this strategy and truly opens up the model for Xbox 720. Meaning if I choose to add extra features or enhance features, I can do that. (Faster hard drives, more texture memory, physics chips etc.) Fingers crossed.
Mark Rein
VP
Epic Games
"I think it\'s a very good strategy given the potential competitive landscape. They get a lower priced version for people who are more cost-conscious and an everything-you-need-for-online-gaming version for those who want the full experience. Developers were always told not to expect a hard drive on every machine so nobody has developed with the assumption it will be there.
"Developers already got our big Xbox 360 gift - we got 512MB of RAM. That was a huge win for developers and customers alike and there was no way we were going to get that and a hard drive on every machine. The RAM is more important and will make a bigger difference than the hard drive would have. There will be lots of great reasons why you\'d want to buy the hard drive and it will be available as an upgrade so nobody is selling themselves short if they can\'t afford the all-options version because they can buy those options a-la-carte (for more money mind you) if needed.
[Nvidia256\'s comment] --> As if you are going to say anything negative about the 360 considering you are the biggest middware provider for 360, same goes for PS3.
Jon Middleton
VP business development
Mad Catz
"It’s nice to see that Microsoft brought some creative pricing to their launch strategy. Offering a premium pack complete with all the bells and whistles is great for early adopters, but the addition of an \'a la carte\' approach to a next-gen console release may lead to quicker adoption by the mass gaming community.
"This move should help ease the cost impact and allow retailers to offer a wider array of possible hardware bundles. It will certainly help drive sales for Microsoft’s third party peripheral partners."
Tisk ,Tisk ,Tisk M$ if you wanna fall flat on your face against the mighty SONY, then you have already taken the first step in doing so.
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here is what some of the accessories look like. Those faceplates look stupid
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.planetxbox360.com%2Fimages%2Fbrochure%2Faccessories1.jpg&hash=3220b792e168980ea8d5c15b58773f4cd90fef1a)
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At least MS made this console stackable. Dammit, Sony! :mad:
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microsoft needs to fire whoever was in charge of marketing for xbox 3DO, honestly.
a core version is just retarded and completely defeated the point of having a built in hard drive.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
At least MS made this console stackable. Dammit, Sony! :mad:
I guess Sony just wants PS3 on top. ;)
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"One word: Blunder. Developers will almost always cater to the lowest spec\'ed system when it comes to consoles, so as to maximize the customer base. So, my guess is that few games will truly make significant use of the hard drive, given that it\'s an option that cannot be counted on."
Shouldn\'t they quit worrying about MS and start worrying about Duke Nukem Forever?
;)
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Duke Nukem Forever was a joke I guess.....I mean....a real joke.The title even sais it.
Duke Nukem FOREVER.
We will wait forever :p
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why not just throw a 5 gig in the core and 40 gig in the premium
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why not just have one ocnsole...damn all these money making add on schemes
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MS has misplaced the HD cost burden.
They could have made the HD standard again and let the extra costs \'translate\'
into premium price on every game which absolutely requires HD use.
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You guys are making such a big deal out of what will turn out to be a non-issue. Microsoft\'s going to be fine, now you can all rest easy.;)
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"fine" and staying in 2nd (possibly 3rd) place are two different animals
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3rd place, please!
What the itty bitty revolution is going take second, as if.
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Spicy news :
The harddisk IS required for the Xbox360 to be backwards compatible AT ALL.
quote :- The brochures all confirm that a hard-drive is needed for backwards compatibility (this has been known all along, but it is the first official MS confirmation of the fact).
So, no Halo 1 or SplinterCell 1 on your core xbox360.
source (http://www.planetxbox360.com/?view=article&article=83)
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Spicy news :
The harddisk IS required for the Xbox360 to be backwards compatible AT ALL.
quote :- The brochures all confirm that a hard-drive is needed for backwards compatibility (this has been known all along, but it is the first official MS confirmation of the fact).
So, no Halo 1 or SplinterCell 1 on your core xbox360.
source (http://www.planetxbox360.com/?view=article&article=83)
Thus the backwards compatability is known as being possible on the premium model and not the core.
This all comes down to how well Microsoft communicates to the consumer what the benefits are of either package, and then let the consumer decide what they need.
There will be an audience for both packages, and people won\'t mind shelling out more dollars for the accessories. Sony proved that with the PSP Value Pak.
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Originally posted by mm
"fine" and staying in 2nd (possibly 3rd) place are two different animals
Somebody has to be in second, and another has to be in third. There\'s no getting around that, and a business can do well in either of those places.
Mark my words, Nintendo will be in third place again.
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Ok, but for alot of ppl, MS has created this confusion about this backwards compatibility.
When a console maker states \'backwards compatible\', the consumer rightfully assumes that\'s out-of-the-box feature, not by means of a HD add on sold seperately.
I know alot of ppl who were a little disappointed they had to buy Xbox\'s dvd movie kit to be able to watch dvd\'s on Xbox while it was standard on PS2.
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How will it work exactly? :confused:
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Originally posted by Rikku
Thus the backwards compatability is known as being possible on the premium model and not the core.
This all comes down to how well Microsoft communicates to the consumer what the benefits are of either package, and then let the consumer decide what they need.
There will be an audience for both packages, and people won\'t mind shelling out more dollars for the accessories. Sony proved that with the PSP Value Pak.
Its not the same.
The PSP value pak didnt split what consumers could do with their PSPs.
The same things the Value Pack could do could also be done on the stand alone PSP package.
On the other hand with XBOX360 some will be able to play their original XBOX games others wont be able.Others will have full benefits of Live others wont.
I am not saying that they have messed up.That I dont know.Just making an observation.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
How will it work exactly? :confused:
simple ; the xbox 1 specific emulation software must be installed on HD.
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Ok, but for alot of ppl, MS has created this confusion about this backwards compatibility.
When a console maker states \'backwards compatible\', the consumer rightfully assumes that\'s out-of-the-box feature, not by means of a HD add on sold seperately.
I know alot of ppl who were a little disappointed they had to buy Xbox\'s dvd movie kit to be able to watch dvd\'s on Xbox while it was standard on PS2.
I\'ll say it again. This all comes down to how well Microsoft informs the consumer of what they need in order to do what they want. If MS can effectively communicate that you need the HD to have backwards compatability then there is no confusion.
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the confusion is that they lied
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Its not the same.
The PSP value pak didnt split what consumers could do with their PSPs.
The same things the Value Pack could do could also be done on the stand alone PSP package.
On the other hand with XBOX360 some will be able to play their original XBOX games others wont be able.Others will have full benefits of Live others wont.
I am not saying that they have messed up.That I dont know.Just making an observation.
Where\'s the confusion? Core = no backwards compatability. Premium = Backwards compatability. If you want backwards compatability you\'ll know which package to get. Being able to play original xbox games won\'t cripple or split the Xbox 360 games audience.
Microsoft recently said that the HD is not needed to use Xbox Live. But, if you plan on downloading demos/previews, arcade games, extra content, etc then you might want something bigger than a 64 MB memory card.
I argued this before, the HD is an accessory. It\'s a big memory card where you can keep more than just a few game saves. Keep music, downloaded content, downloaded demos, Live arcade games, customized content, game saves, et al all in one place. If you want to play with the above, buy the Premium System. If you just want the standard game, buy the core system.
I don\'t see how any of this has hurt Microsoft.
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Originally posted by mm
the confusion is that they lied
about what?
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do you pay any attention to console news or just troll this forum for no particular reason?
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Originally posted by mm
do you pay any attention to console news or just troll this forum for no particular reason?
I troll?! That\'s really funny coming from YOU.
Tell me what they lied about, and give me a direct quote. The last I heard straight from J Allards mouth was that the Xbox 360 will be backwards compatible, but it will require the HD.
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apparently you dont remember what was said at E3
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Originally posted by mm
apparently you dont remember what was said at E3
Like I said, the last thing I heard. That being post-E3.
Anyway, give me a quote from the e3 presentation and a link. Thanks.
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Who in their right mind would pay 50 bucks plus tax for one wireless controller? Even the regular controller is 40 bucks. :eek:
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rikku, if you didnt pay attention to E3, that is your ignorance and blind faith in what you heard today
microsoft promised backwards compatibility, then it was only certain titles, then it was all titles, now it\'s only on the premium system
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by mm
rikku, if you didnt pay attention to E3, that is your ignorance and blind faith in what you heard today
microsoft promised backwards compatibility, then it was only certain titles, then it was all titles, now it\'s only on the premium system
:rolleyes:
Quote and link, thanks.
EDIT: The latest information is the most relevant. I do remember J Allard at E3 saying that xbox 360 will be backwards compatible, but they were still trying to figure out exactly how it was going to be done, and what titles would be available, etc.
Can you tell me if J Allard shared that the HD would be needed?
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here\'s a quote you might like
8===D O:
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Like clock work Orange, mm has no Legs to stand on
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Originally posted by Knotter8
simple ; the xbox 1 specific emulation software must be installed on HD.
Becuase if I remember well some games may not be compatible with the emulation and the emulation will be adjusted to more games (I think you ll be able to download the updates for it) as time passes.
Originally posted by Rikku
Where\'s the confusion? Core = no backwards compatability. Premium = Backwards compatability. If you want backwards compatability you\'ll know which package to get. Being able to play original xbox games won\'t cripple or split the Xbox 360 games audience.
Microsoft recently said that the HD is not needed to use Xbox Live. But, if you plan on downloading demos/previews, arcade games, extra content, etc then you might want something bigger than a 64 MB memory card.
I argued this before, the HD is an accessory. It\'s a big memory card where you can keep more than just a few game saves. Keep music, downloaded content, downloaded demos, Live arcade games, customized content, game saves, et al all in one place. If you want to play with the above, buy the Premium System. If you just want the standard game, buy the core system.
I don\'t see how any of this has hurt Microsoft.
I know I will want an XBOX360 that plays XBOX games but wouldnt care much about the downloads.So......will I have to invest on the expensive version to get backwards compatibility and pay for a HD that wont be of any use?Or pay less so I wont have to pay for the HD by sacrificing backwards compatibility at the same time?
I know I wouldnt care about XBOX Live enough to purchase the Premium package but the new consumers that may not choose to have the HD might not try to see the full potential of XBOX Live and what it really offers.And I remember that the HD helped XBOX Live\'s support and evolved greater since people could do more than just play games online unlike Sony\'s online offer.Now some may not understand the difference
The new consumer is also the key here.And many new consumers dont know what they will get or lose if they buy or dont buy the premium package.Most chances are they will go fo rthe cheaper one.But the extra features available thanks to the HD were supposed to be something good that MS offered as standard that the PS2 never had.Now its not a standard.
The casual consumer wont think "ah PS3 will be sold $400 without a HD so I ll pay $400 for an XBOX360 which is a better offer compared to Sony\'s"
The casual consumer will think "ah whats this?They are selling me the HD separately now?I got the XBOX with the HD and all without paying more back then"
"Now(unlike then) we force you to pay more if you want it".Thats what some consumers may mistakenly see
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who cares anymore
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Oh well.Lets shut up and wait then :p
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oh really, nvidia256
please lay some of your legendary wisdom on me so i can be enlightened
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Becuase if I remember well some games may not be compatible with the emulation and the emulation will be adjusted to more games (I think you ll be able to download the updates for it) as time passes.
I know I will want an XBOX360 that plays XBOX games but wouldnt care much about the downloads.So......will I have to invest on the expensive version to get backwards compatibility and pay for a HD that wont be of any use?Or pay less so I wont have to pay for the HD by sacrificing backwards compatibility at the same time?
I know I wouldnt care about XBOX Live enough to purchase the Premium package but the new consumers that may not choose to have the HD might not try to see the full potential of XBOX Live and what it really offers.And I remember that the HD helped XBOX Live\'s support and evolved greater since people could do more than just play games online unlike Sony\'s online offer.Now some may not understand the difference
The new consumer is also the key here.And many new consumers dont know what they will get or lose if they buy or dont buy the premium package.Most chances are they will go fo rthe cheaper one.But the extra features available thanks to the HD were supposed to be something good that MS offered as standard that the PS2 never had.Now its not a standard.
The casual consumer wont think "ah PS3 will be sold $400 without a HD so I ll pay $400 for an XBOX360 which is a better offer compared to Sony\'s"
The casual consumer will think "ah whats this?They are selling me the HD separately now?I got the XBOX with the HD and all without paying more back then"
"Now(unlike then) we force you to pay more if you want it".Thats what some consumers may mistakenly see
I\'ll say it for the third time now, this all depends on how well Microsoft markets the two different packages. The benefits, the drawbacks, whatever.
The Premium system comes with more than just the HD, fyi.
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yeah, 10$ worth of crap to produce that should be included in one $399 SKU.
they are doing this to make stupid consumers think they are getting so much more for paying the original price.....wait...i\'m sorry, that\'s you
it\'s a old school marketing gimmick, and you fell for it completely
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I think the 20 Gbytes HDD should only cost $20 or so consider computer\'s HDD price have drop quite a good amount per a GB. Like a 120 GB Maxter HDD which can be had for $60 now, or maybe cheaper now. So I think including a much lesser storage such as microsoft 20 GB should cost no more than $20. If include in the system, it should be price at $319.99...
I hope there is only one version of the system with the HDD included and no other accessories (periphereals) included. So, they can make money out of consumers on wireless controller, HD Video cable, etc by buying seperate...
lets say if the HDD is included selling at $320, I think Microsoft isn\'t losing much money by selling it at $300. They can make it up by software sales and accessories/periphereals sale...
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they\'re using a 2.5" HD (notebook), not that it makes it magically worth 100$
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Originally posted by mm
yeah, 10$ worth of crap to produce that should be included in one $399 SKU.
they are doing this to make stupid consumers think they are getting so much more for paying the original price.....wait...i\'m sorry, that\'s you
it\'s a old school marketing gimmick, and you fell for it completely
If you were to buy all the stuff seperately (that makes up the premium package) then you\'d end up paying more than $399.
Please, stop talking like you know about it.
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Rikku, that\'s just cuz the accessories are all over priced.
But the console technically isn\'t... since they\'re selling it at a loss again.
It\'s just a matter of opinion - do you think a gaming console has a $400 value?
I really don\'t. I figured it out and we\'re looking to spend about $600 for a couple games and a controller. If you plan on some 4 player action off the bat, those 50-fucking-dollar controllers will push you right to the brink of $750, $800...
Heh, and I hope you don\'t use a lot of gas driving out to the store.
-Dan
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Originally posted by Eiksirf
Rikku, that\'s just cuz the accessories are all over priced.
But the console technically isn\'t... since they\'re selling it at a loss again.
It\'s just a matter of opinion - do you think a gaming console has a $400 value?
I really don\'t. I figured it out and we\'re looking to spend about $600 for a couple games and a controller. If you plan on some 4 player action off the bat, those 50-fucking-dollar controllers will push you right to the brink of $750, $800...
Heh, and I hope you don\'t use a lot of gas driving out to the store.
-Dan
... I planned on walkin\' to get mine, gotta save money for that Premium Xbox 360! Can\'t afford no stinkin\' gas..
On a serious note, fifty dollars for a fuckin\' controller is obsence. I can\'t image payin\' that much....Speakin\' of which, let\'s look at a previous launch experience.
Sega Dreamcast - $200
Soul Calibur - $50
Blue Stinger - $50
Sonic Adventure - $50
TrickStyle - $ 50
House of the Dead 2 - $50
Vmu - $30
Controller - $30
Price - $510 (plus taxes!)
Now let\'s look at a tricked out Xbox 360 or even PS3 (if indeed launch price is $400 for each system)
Xbox 360 (Premium) - 400
Two Games - 100
Controller - 50
Memory Card - 30
Right there, we already have a grand total of $580 dollars.
Let\'s look at a regular ole\' "core" Xbox 360..
Xbox 360 (Core) - $300
Two Games - 100
Controller - $50
Memory Card - $30
Total Price? $480.
Not only did the Dreamcast give the best bang for the buck at launch, but it can also think!
;)
Maybe Steve should go back to his commercial days when the Xbox 360 comes out.
http://www.funnyjunk.com/movies/25/Old%20windows%20commercial/stream
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haha that\'s great. :p
aren\'t the $50 controllers the wireless ones? if you don\'t wanna pay that much, then just buy the wired ones. how much do those cost?
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49$
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I wonder how much PS3 will cost with an extra controller something to save on, and a game :confused:
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Wired controllers are $39.99. And I doubt they\'ll make many.
This shit is overpriced. The fucking memory card is $39.99. The harddrive separate is $99.99.
Get in line! You will all have a chance to be equally gouged.
All games except for the $50 Kameo are tentatively priced by EB at $60.
Prices are all still subject to change.
-Dan
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Originally posted by Rikku
Quote and link, thanks.
EDIT: The latest information is the most relevant. I do remember J Allard at E3 saying that xbox 360 will be backwards compatible, but they were still trying to figure out exactly how it was going to be done, and what titles would be available, etc.
Can you tell me if J Allard shared that the HD would be needed?
I hate to say it but mm is correct. Microsoft may have not outrightly put all their cards on the table and promised anything - but they sure as hell implied that Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with the more popular games. This is pretty much well established, not just on this forum but everywhere else.
The thing that sucks most about this, is that those people that would be interested most in the backwards-compatibility feature are the cost-conscious ones - the ones that Microsoft is targeting with their "core" package.
Adding to that, the prices on accessories is just horrendous by any standard.
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Why bring that ff-ing DC into convo !?
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I think they said outright that you require a hard disk for XBox compatibility. I think it might even be on those brochure things people have been circulating.
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Microsoft may have not outrightly put all their cards on the table and promised anything - but they sure as hell implied that Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with the more popular games. This is pretty much well established, not just on this forum but everywhere else.
[rikku]links!!!!1
quotes!!!!2 that\'s unpossible!!!3 microsfot wasn\'t even at E3[/rikku]
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Originally posted by seven
I hate to say it but mm is correct. Microsoft may have not outrightly put all their cards on the table and promised anything - but they sure as hell implied that Xbox360 will be backwards compatible with the more popular games. This is pretty much well established, not just on this forum but everywhere else.
The thing that sucks most about this, is that those people that would be interested most in the backwards-compatibility feature are the cost-conscious ones - the ones that Microsoft is targeting with their "core" package.
Adding to that, the prices on accessories is just horrendous by any standard.
mm is never right. The Xbox 360 is backwards compatible, you just need a HD to get it.
This reminds me of the whole "toy story like graphics" debacle with the PS2. Stupid people will interpret it wrong and take it completely out of context, and then run with it.
Bring me some quotes, or shut up.
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Originally posted by Rikku
Bring me some quotes, or shut up.
Snape kills Dumbledore
:D
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Originally posted by Knotter8
Why bring that ff-ing DC into convo !?
Look at the post and figure it out numbnuts. The whole point was to show not only how industry prices have went up, but how much, we the consumers are gettin\' f**ked. The DC was a great system, low launch price and offered the most bang for the buck.
Oh and for the record, I\'m more concerned about the fact not a single launch title screams "next generation".
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rikku, please try and concentrate
you just need a HD to get it.
was added recently. microsoft said certain best sellers will be backwards compatible, then it was all games, now you need a HD.
not feeling lied to yet?
Stupid people will interpret it wrong and take it completely out of context, and then run with it.
you mean people who cant remember what was said at E3 or even a few weeks ago?
omg1111! quotes1111! linkzorz1111!
pay attention for once or do your own damn seaches.
you get the pleasure of trying to prove me wrong, bro. never the other way
agreed LIC, i\'ve never felt so underwhelmed at next gen consoles like this round.
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Originally posted by Rikku
Bring me some quotes, or shut up.
Here\'s an advice: do a search for some interviews with Allard just after E3 and you should find some quotes there.
I really can\'t be bothered to try to convince you of something that has been widely established not just on this forum but all the others as well. In fact, just read GAF or check by at the Beyond3d forums to see how Xbox-Pro members are baffled by Microsoft\'s latest fuck-up and that should pretty much ring some bells.
Your ignorance shouldn\'t be my time wasted - sorry.
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Originally posted by mm
rikku, please try and concentrate
was added recently. microsoft said certain best sellers will be backwards compatible, then it was all games, now you need a HD.
not feeling lied to yet?
Back then the x360 was thought to have an HD standard. I guess if I was thirteen and couldn\'t afford jack shit, I would feel cheated and maybe annoyed.
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Here\'s an advice: do a search for some interviews with Allard just after E3 and you should find some quotes there
Here\'s some advice for flawed thought out guy like you, why should he provide the quotes and do the research when it\'s mm making the claims? Sad you are
I really can\'t be bothered to try to convince you of something that has been widely established
Then shut the pie hole and don\'t bother to respond any longer. Do your self a favour and take your own advice. Oh yeah, if it has been so widely established then mm should have no problems posting the "various quotes" backing his argument up. Funny how all he and you have done is make excuses
I am a long time member at B3d and the members are not making allegations that M$ lied and deceived anyone. Hell they have not even released the console yet get a grip man. The only complaint from people like myself is the disappointment that the HDD will not be a standard in the 360 thereby giving developers little incentive to really exploit it\'s capabilities. Plus alot of people were hoping that M$ was going to release the console with the HDD at $299. I know you wanna look cool backing mm but instead you have made your self look like an ass. You sit there and tell rikku off when he is the only one here being rational about this whole thing.
mm is only making an issue about the HDD cause he has always from Day 1 expressed hatred and trolling towards any of the M$ consoles and every long time psx2 member knows it.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
:D
Come back for another spanking?
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Originally posted by seven
Here\'s an advice: do a search for some interviews with Allard just after E3 and you should find some quotes there.
I really can\'t be bothered to try to convince you of something that has been widely established not just on this forum but all the others as well. In fact, just read GAF or check by at the Beyond3d forums to see how Xbox-Pro members are baffled by Microsoft\'s latest fuck-up and that should pretty much ring some bells.
Your ignorance shouldn\'t be my time wasted - sorry.
Yeah, because the internet is full of people who never misinterpret anything. :rolleyes:
There is no latest fuck-up, we don\'t know how this will play out. How could you possibly put stock into something said on a gaming forum? Even professional analyst screw up, and it\'s their job to make educated guesses. As I said before, any misinterpretation or misinformation will be nullified by a solid marketing campaign (if there is one). I still suggest to wait and see what happens.
I know what was said, and I know that nothing official was ever said. The most recent information is the most relevant.
You can\'t prove your case because you don\'t have one. Not as if this matters anyway. Do you know how small of a minority the backwards compatible crowd will be? So not an issue.
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rikku, do yourself a favor give up bro
no amount of lip service to microsoft can get past how they lied
if a microsoft representitive says something to the media, guess what....it\'s official
and ooooh, so now it\'s a matter of how many people actually care about backwards compatibility, eh? and not whether it was supposed to be included
:rofl:
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Originally posted by mm
rikku, do yourself a favor give up bro
no amount of lip service to microsoft can get past how they lied
You never had a leg to stand on, mm.
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Originally posted by Rikku
Come back for another spanking?
Spanking by you? A guy who spends his Friday nights to buy a children\'s book? *snicker* Okay. I want some spanking. It\'s the only ass you\'ll ever touch since you don\'t seem to get much luck with the girls.
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at least i dont pretend things that were said at E3 never existed
...these are not the droids you\'re looking for. noone ever said xbox 360 would be backwards compatible...
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agreed LIC, i\'ve never felt so underwhelmed at next gen consoles like this round.
I mean, none of the hype, none of the screens and none of the games make me think, "wow". It all just seems like a minor, very minor step up in graphical quality.
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exactly
i\'m sick off the console theory bullshit
(please dont ask me to explain unicon/rikku/nvidia256. if you don\'t understand now, try again in a few years)
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wow, that\'s entirely irrelavent to the debate.
mm, you have yet to present any evidence as to your case. You made the bold claim first, I questioned it. Prove it or drop it.
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ok, al sharpton
i\'ll get with my assistant clyde to put a case together to present to the psx2central jury.
like i said, you take time to prove your side. i\'m not interested, i already know you\'re ignorant, and just disagreeing for entertainment value.
oh, and have an original topic for once, not just refuting what others say with "links! quotes! signs from god!".
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Originally posted by mm
ok, al sharpton
i\'ll get with my assistant clyde to put a case together to present to the psx2central jury.
like i said, you take time to prove your side. i\'m not interested, i already know you\'re ignorant, and just disagreeing for entertainment value.
oh, and have an original topic for once, not just refuting what others say with "links! quotes! signs from god!".
I\'m not ignorant about it, but you\'re obviously bias.
This isn\'t at all surprising, debate has never been your strong suit. You\'re a mental midget in console debating.
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ahhh, biased
yes! i\'m biased against the whole scene. grats on finally noticing, must have been quite an enigma to realizing i\'m dissatisfied with console gaming in large.
your powers of observation are incredible
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Originally posted by mm
ahhh, biased
yes! i\'m biased against the whole scene. grats on finally noticing, must have been quite an enigma to realizing i\'m dissatisfied with console gaming in large.
your powers of observation are incredible
Well that really doesn\'t go over well if you\'re trying to engage in an objective debate (the only kind that\'s worth having).
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oh, im quite objective
i\'m not impressed with anything the big 3 are handing out.
and who\'s debating.
this is me saying my opinions and you running around crying "facts!!! links!!! quotes!!!" like a small child who dropped his ice cream on the ground
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Originally posted by mm
oh, im quite objective
i\'m not impressed with anything the big 3 are handing out.
and who\'s debating.
this is me saying my opinions and you running around crying "facts!!! links!!! quotes!!!" like a small child who dropped his ice cream on the ground
But you\'re opinions have been proven to be based on misinformation. The whole EB bundle, and when you said that the extra $100 on the Xbox 360 bundle was only for the HD, and when you\'re claiming that Microsoft is ripping people off when you don\'t have any actual cost figures? You make the claim but there\'s nothing to support it. It falls flat on its face. How could you possibly be satisfied with that? Telling me you\'re not impressed, or that you\'re jaded is a poor answer. That\'s not even an excuse.
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and when you said that the extra $100 on the Xbox 360 bundle was only for the HD
come on bro, you making shit up now to suit your small needs?
jaded? you need to read up a bit
oh, and i have to explain nothing to you. again....nothing.
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yes! i\'m biased against the whole scene
You are notorious for using this same old line over and over again. Unfortunately it does no justice here, ever heard of an old saying mm "actions speak louder than words"
Your past record clearly illustrates your true nature, which you take every opportunity to degrade, whine, complain etc.. about the XBOX/360 yet in the last 3 years I have never seen you complain or moan once about Sony, not once! Interesting how it\'s you who\'s always crapping on Xbox threads, but never SONY. Name any of Xbox tops games and mm will tell ya they all suck, especially Halo.
Notice how it\'s mm primarily who sparks up a big storm about something M$ does, yet never a mention about SONY. Oh I forgot your biased against all systems, my bad I must have mentally blocked out all the times you bash, and criticize SONY.
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Originally posted by mm
exactly
i\'m sick off the console theory bullshit
(please dont ask me to explain unicon/rikku/nvidia256. if you don\'t understand now, try again in a few years)
What do I have to do with this? :rolleyes:
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lol, actions....on a forum
I have never seen you complain or moan once about Sony
your fault for being selective on what you notice
forgiven, tho
but try harder please
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oh, and i have to explain nothing to you. again....nothing
Wow! I truly pity you, a bitter anti-socialist who is so wrapped up in his own physiological prison that you are incapable of having any real productive discussion.
no amount of lip service to microsoft can get past how they lied
Oh really, what about when Ken Kutaragi lied to all the psp owners with defective units. He told them that the defective square button that did not pop back up after being pressed was intentionally designed that way, that the square button needs to be pressed deliberately on the right, and if you don\'t the button will not be recognized, and sometimes the button can stick.
Ken Kutaragi\'s response to those whom criticized the psp for this flaw was this:
"I believe we made the most beautiful thing in the world. Nobody would criticize a renowned architect\'s blueprint that the position of a gate is wrong. It\'s the same as that."
"the button\'s location is [architectured] on purpose. It\'s according to specifications. This is something that we\'ve created, and this is our specification. There was a clear purpose to it, and it wasn\'t a mistake."
Later on it was discovered that the units were manufactured defective. Sony officially announced that it had isolated the manufacturing problem in the molding and coating of the PSP outer shell, where excess untrimmed resin was responsible for the square button\'s catch and hold.
Now mm you wanna talk about lying, deception, belittling, disrespect and treating your customers like dumb sheep this is a prime example. I would bet my life that Had I made a post about this on the forums you either #1 would not have a damn thing to say or #2 you would have soft peddle and placated the whole thing.
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nvidia256, attacking Sony is not the way to get to me
i applaud your effort, and its cute, but it\'s wasted
now, if you\'re done with your tantrum, step aside, thanks.
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It\'s intent is not to attack Sony but exemplify my point that you are clearly full of shit and are nothing more than a hypocrite full of contradictions.
your fault for being selective on what you notice
Isn\'t that all you have ever done here? Besides the proof is in the pudding.
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you have no point
like rikku, you just attempt to refute what i say by turning it around and then wish for me to further explain
it\'s fun for like 8 seconds
omg links!!!!!1
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Man you are far to easy, back in the day you stood for more of a challenge. I guess after 5 years of your ramblings one begins to pick up on your patterns. mm honestly you are incredibly easy to predict.
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at least you got my name right (for once)
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what does mm stand for anyways?
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did someone kill kyde? what happend to him?
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Thats Clyde. :p
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looking for me?
been busy collecting nanners
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Originally posted by Unicron!
what does mm stand for anyways?
michael moore?
mickey mouse?
male masturbator?
j/k on the last one. :D
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Amazing, clyde comes on command.
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Originally posted by Phil
Amazing, clyde comes on command.
So do I...
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Posted 11. August 2005 - Sept. Issue of GameInformer (J. Allard Interview):
Q: Will the Xbox 360 be sold in different models, one with a hard drive and one without? What about different sized hard drives?
A: It\'s something we\'re not ready to announce yet. We\'ve been getting good feedback from people at E3 and a lot of retailers. Look at the success the iPod has had by having different offerings. That is something we have looked at, sort of on the long-term horizon. We want to go get everybody out there that likes to play, and make them an Xbox customer. how do we do that? I don\'t think it\'s a one-size-fits-all approach over the next five year horizon. I think we\'ll enter the market in a very conventional fashion and from there it\'s all about listening to gamers. That\'s what we do. Until we have the first couple of million customers, it\'s hard to say how we might further the audience.
Q: So the first Halo, or any Xbox title, won\'t be backward compatible if you don\'t have an Xbox 360 hard drive?
A: Yeah, it won\'t work. Backwards compatibility is going to require a hard drive. We\'ve been talking a little bit about la-la land, and saying, "Maybe there\'s someday that an Xbox 360 doesn\'t come with a hard drive." Actually, the very first one we sell is goin to have a hard drive. It doesn\'t mean that the hard drive is always going to be attached. The owner can take it to a friend\'s house, and the other people in the owner\'s house can still use the Xbox 360 to play games.
Well if this isn\'t implying that the first version will have a harddrive and be backwards-compatible - then I honestly don\'t know what it is. BTW; Nvidia - this was posted on Beyond3d - but since you\'re a member there as well, I figured you must have just missed this one. :rolleyes:
And for Rikku who thinks this isn\'t a fuck-up - call it what you want - the fact that some developers themselves are calling it this and the uproar on just about every major site (GAF, Beyond3d, TeamXbox and MajorNelson\'s guestbook etc)... I think that paints a very clear message. Perhaps you should read the article again ("Xbox360: The industry reacts") and think again.
Note that no one is saying Xbox360 is doomed!!11 or anything the like - it\'s still a fuck-up and one that will definately hurt consumers - at least those that go out and buy the core version thanking Microsoft of giving them the option only to find out at home that there\'s no backwards compatibility, no HD cables (nice HD-era console isn\'t it?), no memorycard what-so-ever unless they payed for those incredible expensive accessories.
Fact is; most Xbox owners this generation didn\'t have to worry about memorycars or anything along those lines thanks to the built in harddrive. It was common-knowledge regarded amonst just about anyone that this trend would continue into the next generation - who seriously wouldn\'t? It\'s not about what Microsoft said and what they claimed - this is about what consumers were expecting realistically. And not having a hdd in it certainly wasn\'t part of it, nor was it having to pay for expensive upgrades to be able to even use simple backwards-compatibility or saving games.
Got to love the damage control you guys are trying... *thumbs up* ;)
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Originally posted by Clyde
looking for me?
been busy collecting nanners
Any time someone asks about you, you show up. You\'re like a FF Summon command. Worth about 8 magic points and about as harmless as Chocobo Summon. :p
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Originally posted by seven
Posted 11. August 2005 - Sept. Issue of GameInformer (J. Allard Interview):
Well if this isn\'t implying that the first version will have a harddrive and be backwards-compatible - then I honestly don\'t know what it is. BTW; Nvidia - this was posted on Beyond3d - but since you\'re a member there as well, I figured you must have just missed this one. :rolleyes:
And for Rikku who thinks this isn\'t a fuck-up - call it what you want - the fact that some developers themselves are calling it this and the uproar on just about every major site (GAF, Beyond3d, TeamXbox and MajorNelson\'s guestbook etc)... I think that paints a very clear message. Perhaps you should read the article again ("Xbox360: The industry reacts") and think again.
Note that no one is saying Xbox360 is doomed!!11 or anything the like - it\'s still a fuck-up and one that will definately hurt consumers - at least those that go out and buy the core version thanking Microsoft of giving them the option only to find out at home that there\'s no backwards compatibility, no HD cables (nice HD-era console isn\'t it?), no memorycard what-so-ever unless they payed for those incredible expensive accessories.
Fact is; most Xbox owners this generation didn\'t have to worry about memorycars or anything along those lines thanks to the built in harddrive. It was common-knowledge regarded amonst just about anyone that this trend would continue into the next generation - who seriously wouldn\'t? It\'s not about what Microsoft said and what they claimed - this is about what consumers were expecting realistically. And not having a hdd in it certainly wasn\'t part of it, nor was it having to pay for expensive upgrades to be able to even use simple backwards-compatibility or saving games.
Got to love the damage control you guys are trying... *thumbs up* ;)
The industry as a whole includes far more than a few opinions.
Microsoft is still offering the HD, but this time you need to pay for it. Sony, and probably Nintendo, will offer the same deal. The competition does not have an advantage here, Microsoft isn\'t left behind. It\'s simply an accesory just as it was in the Xbox. No harm done.
Honestly, the backwards compatability crowd is a very small minority. Those who want it can get it though, those who don\'t care won\'t have to shell out extra $$$ for an HD.
I\'m really impressed with how big of a deal you people are making all of this. It\'s not a fuck up because you don\'t know the ramifications of Microsoft\'s decisions. What if the two models sell well, and Microsoft is more successful than they were this current generation? How would you qualify it as a fuck up? The only way you could is to know the outcome had they not gone with two models. Really, it\'s a flawed arguement. Stop. Come this holiday season this will all be forgotten. Don\'t worry, I won\'t hold it against you.
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sounds like a toilet flushing
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Originally posted by mm
sounds like a toilet flushing
After all that shit just flew out of your mouth?