PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: §ôµÏG®ïñD on September 03, 2005, 09:08:09 PM
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Tomorrow after work i\'ll be buying a LCD monitor. I\'m choosing between
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consumer.philips.com%2Fcatalog%2F19%2F190S6FS_75_webImageFullSize.jpg&hash=4e09e22f0d7ca66aa73b442425bd1c0bd3ac1478)
Philips 190S6FS 19 inch Silver LCD (http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/product.jsp?language=en&country=AU&catalogType=CONSUMER&productId=190S6FS_75_AU_CONSUMER)
and
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct.samsung.com%2FSamsungUSA%2FPRODUCT%2F20040329%2Fb2c_l_913v-silver.jpg&hash=2ecce04ae6c5a08ebc1131ce0af4f1517b517db6)
19" Samsung 913V (http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=GS19VSSS)
Both look like great monitors, the philips more so. The samsung has a crappier response time 12ms. But i\'ve had little experience with philips monitors.. opinions?
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LCD\'s aren\'t as much of a big deal as they were 2 years ago, but I still hate you. B-|
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Basically i don\'t really need one, but i\'m doin lan parties pretty much every 2nd week.
Different houses make it hard to cart around a crt. So i thought instead of just replacing it with a LCD. Why not go 19inch too. :)
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uh, i see.
no comments on what to suggest though as i am not a fan of lcd.
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no DVI on either?
perhaps i missed it
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don\'t want DVI.. only after a analog one.
although i may get this one
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.consumer.philips.com%2Fcatalog%2F19%2F190B6CS_00_webImageFullSize.jpg&hash=bd314f08e5094a4cdbf44ab7e6cd3987ca9f8ba5)
Philips 190B6CS/00 19inch (http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/catalog.jsp?fhquery=fh_secondid%3D190b6cs_00_au_consumer%26fh_secondid%3D190B6CS_00_AU_CONSUMER%26fh_location%3D%2F%2Fconsumer%2Fen_AU%2Fcategories%3Cmonitors_pc_peripherals_gr_au_consumer%2Fcategories%3Clcd_monitors_ca_au_consumer%2Fcategories%3Clcd_monitors_18_19_su_au_consumer%26&productId=190B6CS_00_AU_CONSUMER&activeCategory=MONITORS_PC_PERIPHERALS_GR_AU_CONSUMER&fredhopperpage=detail.jsp&language=en&country=AU&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=OTQHQ4NLO15D3J0RMRCSHP3HKFSESI5P)
It has built in speakers, dvi, usb etc. so it may be worth paying the little extra.
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get a DVI, bro
it\'s teh future
oh, and what\'s wrong with dell?
thier lcd\'s rock
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This chart might help :
Type of panel
* TN : low contrast <700, high brightnes, colours 16.2 m,
fast reaction timings, small angle, for hardcore gamers
* Overdrive TN : low contrast <700, high brightness, colours 16.2 m, very fast reaction timings, small angle, for gamers
* MVA/PVA : high contrast 1000:1, low brightness, colours 16.7 m, slow reaction timings, large angle, for movie freaks and graphic designers
* Overdrive MVA/PVA : very high contrast 1500:1, low brightness, colours 16.7 m, fast reaction timings, large angle, for all users
That should help which of those monitors will suit you best :)
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agh, get one of them super lappies with a 6600 go force. heavy by lappy standards, but a billion times lighter than a box, monitor, keyboard and moue.
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Dell Inspiron XPS2 with Geforce Go6800 Ultra :bow:
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Souly, I think you\'ll find that Samsung > Philips when it comes to TFT monitors.
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Souly if you really want the best bang for the buck then get the Dell 2001fp, biger monitor, higher res and cheap the only downside (to some people that is) is that it has the dell logo.
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Let me address this
MVA/PVA : high contrast 1000:1, low brightness, colors 16.7 m, slow reaction timings, large angle, for movie freaks and graphic designers
Your chart is outdated! MVA does 8ms with the new advancement panels by AU Optronics
Now there is no True 8ms or 4ms LCD\'s on the market, those are all inflated numbers. How ever this is soon to change. AU and Samsung are preparing to launch new panels with faster Response times based on the actual hardware rather than relying on overdrive feature. The fastest in true response with overdrive is 12ms, and that will depend entirely on the manufacturer (generally if they can get a true 12 they will label it as 8ms, 6ms or 4ms).
As you are probably aware there is only 4 ( Samsung, LG-Philips, AU Optronics and CMO) companies in the industry whom manufacture the panels, while other companies buy, tweak and house them inside there bezel.
If you want the best in terms of Color accuracy,response time, calibration, video quality, interpolation quality than there is a few choices.
The one that meets most of the criteria above to the fullest would be the ViewSonic VP191b aka-> AU Optronics MVA 8 ms panel inside. This is based off VA tech, which means you are going to achieve considerably improved color quality(it\'s color quality is astonishing) and contrast ratio and viewing angels over it\'s TN counterpart. Downside would be the price, this puppy is expensive compared the TN models.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.viewsoniceurope.com%2Fdata%2F156%2FVP191b_h.jpg&hash=630324df2b470f5ac6e7ff8aba6fe1e106847f45)
This is now considered the cream de la crop for a gamers whom want a fast Monitor but don\'t want to sacrifice quality to get it.. Before, the DELL (LG-Philips) had that crown.
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Souly if you really want the best bang for the buck then get the Dell 2001fp
Soul if you do that you will anally screw yourself. The dell 2001fp is 20.1inch, which means it\'s native res is 1600x1200 you better have SLI or a top of the line GTX Graphics card in order to play any modern games on it. Common mistake I have seen many people make is buy the large LCD. Then when they play there games on it they run choppy at 20fps.
The 2001fp is actually a very good 20inch LCD with a Conservative 16ms rating. Which pretty much means using the same dirty inflated tactics that the other manufactures use for Response Time rating that monitor would then be considered 12ms.
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good points about misleading spec on the pixel response time there...
Personally, I am pondering how OLED will do in terms of picture quality, longevity, and durablity. OLED might be a good candidate to replace LCD when it comes out sometime in the future.
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Another vote for Viewsonic. Every time I make comparisons VS always has the best color reproduction. Tom\'s Hardware analysis also shows this.
The Samsungs are great for gaming but I notice the colors are never on par with a Viewsonic. I work with Photoshop and Flash but needed an LCD, so Viewsonic was pretty much my best option. If they have em now with great response times I\'m all for it.
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Got the DVI 19inch Philips one. Very good monitor, just fits in my pc desk.. Thnx for the tips.
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bah, not happy with your choice. Then again I forget that the prices and availability on products in Australia vary from what is available here.
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why didn\'t you get one with a dvi input? Other than that good choice I guess? I would\'ve gotten one of those dells or a viewsonic, but to each his own.
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I think his criteria revolved around a budget/middle line priced LCD monitor, neither of which the Viewsonic or dell fit.
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700Aud for a monitor.. no thnx.
JBean, i did get the DVI monitor.
"Got the DVI 19inch Philips one"
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I got the Dell 20 inch wide screener. It\'s the same one Mac uses. It\'s actually a Philips and it\'s got inputs for cable, RCA, DVI and analog. In fact, you could have all 4 inputs used and the monitor will allow picture in picture mode! I don\'t know up to how many, perhaps all 4?
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It\'s the same one Mac uses
Which is irrelevant. LCD\'s using the same panels from say Philips/LG does not mean they will look/perform the same. Part of what each manufacture offers in there product is the RD optimizing and tweaking the panel.
By the way Gman, allot of people are going to be pissed when they discover that Windows Vista and any Future Mac OSX will not play HD media on there LCD monitors. It uses High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP). Bascially a two-part cryptographic scheme to control video transmission and delivery at the very end of the video display process. Which means your monitor needs to have hardware HDCP support.
Although let me say M$ nor Apple computers have any choice in this matter.
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Well, don\'t take my word for it, take theirs : http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400
Still, despite the minor differences, the price I save is worth it.
Although both the Apple and Dell 20" displays use the same LG.Philips LCD LM201W01 panel, Apple and Dell seem to differ (at least in terms of marketing) on several specifications including response time, contrast ratio and brightness. Granted, Dell and Apple use different backlights that may account for the 50 nit difference. On the other hand, Apple hardware is traditionally listed with slightly conservative specifications. Part of our review process is to evaluate these specifications anyway - and since these are nearly identical displays, it will be very easy for us to verify which model has the more accurate listed specifications.
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Gman, I was not trying to imply that the apple LCD was better. Matter of fact Apple has never had a Top end LCD. They tend to go with middle line stuff. The only reason you pay more for the apple display is because apple is cocky and thinks they are Elite, therefore they are justified in gouging there brainwashed/mindless/Cult, opps I mean Customers.
Besides the dell 20-inch smacks the shit out of the apple display in almost every area.
First off the apple has gone far too extreme here with the whole concept of stealthing the display. The monitor lacks an OSD menu; there is no software tool to adjust the LCD parameters from the computer. (you need a mac)
Not to mention no manual adjustment for color temperature. You are forced to eye the unit. In other words no professional will touch this monitor with a ten foot pole. Funny I thought apple was trying to reach that demographic.
Anyw
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
Gman, I was not trying to imply that the apple LCD was better.
*sniff* but it\'s the WAY you said it! *runs out of room with hands clutching together by chest*
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Originally posted by mm
oh, and what\'s wrong with dell?
thier lcd\'s rock
indeed.
we use the dell 20.1inch monitors at work and i love \'em.
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Lan Party???
:gfight:
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I had a hard time just getting my monitor to fit into the friggin desk. Getting a DVI-D cable tonight.. :)
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good luck to you. Remember to later tell us about the result like how the picture quality is and stuff.
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Running DVI-D now, Blacks are Blacks, White are Whites, looks fucken awsome.
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good thing you didnt get one without a DVI connection
:P
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Glad to hear your happy with your purchase.
Just something I wanted to clear up
Blacks are Blacks, White are Whites
I doubt that. No lcd ever made can do real blacks, not even the best Ezio 14bit LCD\'s can.
On another not I have observed that most PC gamers/user never have there monitors professionally calibrated.
http://www.displaymate.com
And for all you CRT users, remember 6500K not the factoy default 9300(only use 9300k if your room is lit by phosflorescent lights)
Sadly I am still using a Pro CRT cause LCD\'s suck for gaming, washed out colors, Ghosting. The new LCD \'s that do good with colors have very slow Response times 25ms. But then again Photographers and graphic designers don\'t require quick response times.
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never giving up my 22" crt unless it dies
(then i\'ll buy another one)
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same here, i\'m sticking with my CRT till I HAVE to upgrade
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
Sadly I am still using a Pro CRT cause LCD\'s suck for gaming, washed out colors, Ghosting. The new LCD \'s that do good with colors have very slow Response times 25ms. But then again Photographers and graphic designers don\'t require quick response times.
My LCD has no ghosting. It\'s nearly impossible to see it if there is any. With 12ms response time (more like 16ms as Apple claims), that ain\'t too shabby. And 600:1 is not all that great, though.
The space saving is great since I have two of these 2005 LCDs side by side. :D
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Hey while on the subject how does this deal sound:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116362
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages10.newegg.com%2Fproductimage%2F24-116-362-10.JPG&hash=fd6c09f0d2e710ee36d299efebfabb0e3b0b51b3)
I almost shudder at buying my current 15" 30ms Viewsonic for $350 after rebate years ago.
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Originally posted by Nvidia256
Sadly I am still using a Pro CRT cause LCD\'s suck for gaming, washed out colors, Ghosting. The new LCD \'s that do good with colors have very slow Response times 25ms. But then again Photographers and graphic designers don\'t require quick response times.
My monitor has no ghosting issues on games nor washed out colours. Looks perfect on DVI-D. Think your talking BS, or have really outdated facts.
I can set my monitor to Custom, 9300K, 6500K or sRGB
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all lcd\'s have ghosting
it just depends on how sensitive the user is to it
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If mine has it, its very little to non existent.
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I just bought a 22\' Flat screen CRT and I love it to death.
Flat screen CRT\'s FTW!
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My monitor has no ghosting issues on games nor washed out colours. Looks perfect on DVI-D. Think your talking BS, or have really outdated facts.
Think is the key word here. First off you said blacks were blacks. Fact is LCD can not produce proper blacks, which is a FACT no matter what you think.
Washed out colors is an issue with LCD, (the only exception to this is the 14bit Ezio Pro LCD which cost 5 times that of a conventional LCD.) now most people don\'t even realize this, cause when they had a CRT it was either cheap/middle class or if they had PRO CRT\'s they never calibrated them properly, therefore never understanding what proper color reproduction is. SO when they buy LCD\'s, they are incapable of understanding how the CRT was better.
Also some people just are not able to see the ghosting unless you point it out to them. However throw in a fast racer game and ghosting will take place especially on fast turns etc..
Black-Level, Contrast and Color Saturation
LCD\'s have difficulty producing black and very dark grays. As a result they generally have lower contrast than CRTs and the color saturation for low intensity colors is also reduced. Not suitable for use in dimly lit and dark environments.
Color and Gray-Scale Accuracy
The internal Gamma and gray-scale of an LCD is very irregular. Special circuitry attempts to fix it, often with only limited success. LCDs typically produce fewer than 256 discrete intensity levels[/color]. For some LCDs portions of the gray-scale may be dithered. Images are pleasing but not accurate because of problems with black-level, gray-scale and Gamma, which affects the accuracy of the gray-scale and color mixtures.[/color] Generally not suitable for professional image color balancing.
White Saturation
The bright-end of the LCD intensity scale is easily overloaded, which leads to saturation and compression. When this happens the maximum brightness occurs before reaching the peak of the gray-scale or the brightness increases slowly near the maximum. Requires careful adjustment of the Contrast contro
There are Only 2 LCD\'s on the Market that come to close in terms of reproduction and versatility of the crt and they are the
EZIO FlexScan L997 (best LCD on the market) Price $2000.00 US
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgraphics.tomshardware.com%2Fdisplay%2F20050830%2Fimages%2Feizo_l997_1.jpg&hash=0db30a7457d818d37d00bae7d9ec229c21e114d6)
Best example is to run FarCRY and doom3 on both displays CRT and LCD make sure your CRT is calibrated right, you need software to do this http://www.displaymate.com
If you decide to purchase display mate it will bring your LCD to it\'s kness, as you will come to realize that it\'s incapable of producing the images and scales etc...
Also compare the images and you will be in shock. The Crt will blow the LCD away, it\'s so much more rich in color, blacks are deep and the images are being produce the way the developer ment for you to see them.
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Oh yeah, I\'m not knocking LCD for what they are used for. Alot of people are happy with there LCD purchse and I am glad the same applys to you Souldgrind. However when you question my points and call them BS, it\'s required that I defend them. LCD\'s have many advantages over CRT, just not the ones that are important to professionals. LCD\'s are more catered for the mainstream market and business/corporate world where accuracy is not the criteria of it\'s users.
But if you are a gamer and want the best picture quality without any sacrifice, than CRT\'s are still the King of the hill.
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Blah blah blah. Of course CRT\'s are better overall, but you know how much a 20"+ CRT weighs? They\'re enormous. Weight and design are two main TFT pro\'s.
Also, I can\'t say that I miss my old 17" CRT too much. And now that I can actually sit in front of my monitor again, instead of sideways due to lack of space on the desk, I\'m enjoying it so much more.
I was also quite concerned about ghosting before buying TFT, but I haven\'t noticed any yet, no matter what game I\'ve been playing. Whether or not it\'s actually there is not important to me - what is, is how I see things. And in that regard my monitor is teh win.
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A little off topic, who here can guess what\'s the contrast ratio of an average CRT?
Typical LCD have about several hundred by 1 contrast ratio and the best I seen nearly reach 1,000:1. So anybody here know how much contrast ratio can CRT produce?
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Originally posted by Paul2
A little off topic, who here can guess what\'s the contrast ratio of an average CRT?
Typical LCD have about several hundred by 1 contrast ratio and the best I seen nearly reach 1,000:1. So anybody here know how much contrast ratio can CRT produce?
More like 10,000:1
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And now that I can actually sit in front of my monitor again, instead of sideways due to lack of space on the desk
Then get a bigger desk, I have 0 problems with my CRT. The Only Reason why I want an LCd badly is for reading text, Crt sucks for reading.
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Originally posted by NVIDIA256
Then get a bigger desk
I don\'t really have room for a bigger desk right now, nor is it needed with my TFT monitor. :)
The only reasons I\'d ever go back to a CRT would be:
1) I was a pro and really needed 100% color accuracy
2) I wanted to play games above 1600x1200 rez.
Other than that I\'d choose TFT over CRT any day.
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Fair enough. Like I said earlier before it\'s all a matter of choice and what meets your criteria. We all have a different set of standards.
My main argument actually is that most people have 0 clue as to what is accurate. When ever I show people a properly calibrated CRT they say, Yuck! until they sit down on it for a couple of hours and then go back to there 9300k, uncalibrated units.
Actually a really interesting point is this. Did you know most people do there basic calibration (contrast/brightness) on the windows GUI which is horrible to use as a form of measurement. So while it looks decent on the gui it turns out horrible on games/pictures etc... The same is true vice versa, when properly uncalibrated, the XP GUI looks bland and boring.
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Oh no NVidia, English is not your primary language too? J/K *Me runs and hides*
Originally posted by Samwise
More like 10,000:1
a good guess. But its actually higher than that. on my hometheater magazines that i subscribe too, a hdtv crt they tested have 23,000:1 contrast ratio.
Its actually higher than that because the equipment they use to test the black level of a crt light output read no lower than .001 ft lambert.
But the CRT 0 IRE black level goes lower than .001 ft L. And the equipment couldn\'t test it below that, so when you divide the ft L of 100 IRE white level to ft L 0 IRE black level, you get the contrast ratio.
Say if a CRT can produce a light output of 30 ft L for 100 IRE white. Divide that with .001 ft L for 0 IRE black you get 30,000:1 contrast ratio.
But since CRT produce very deep black and the test equipment couldn\'t go lower than .001 ft L. The contrast ratio should be more than 30,000:1 if you divide lower than .001.
Not to mention if you measure the light output of the blackest level and the whitest level. It should be even lower than .001 ft L for 0 level black (blacker than black) and higher than 30 ft L for 256 level white (whiter than white). meaning, the contrast ratio should be even more higher than 30,000:1. So, its safe to assume some CRT can reach up to 50,000:1 and maybe as high as 100,000:1 contrast ratio.
I remember watching the video of Sony PS3 demo on the E3 and on the screen they projected said that the PS3 can produce a contrast ratio of 50,000:1. They also say that how much our eyes can see. So prepare to be blow away with the color gradiation from dark to light on ps3 video games...
I remember reading somewhere that our eyes can see up to a few hundred thousands contrast ratio but 50,000:1 sounds really close.
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Your right I just noticed that big boo boo. What can I say I\'m at work and type my responses a little to fast.
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what big boo boo? I was just joking because your english writing is kind of a mess on that previous post. Although better vocabulary than me but still...:D
Anyway, NVIDIA, what is your primary language?
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English and I speak a little French as well.
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well, my blacks do look black. Not pitch black (CRT Black) but black, they don\'t look gray and whites don\'t either. I have calibrated my monitor. The main reason i bought it to begin with was for lan parties. I don\'t want to cart around a 19inch CRT. As for colour, it looks fine to me, I\'ve played MANY games on this lcd and i still haven\'t noticed ghosting issues or any blurs.
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As much as I love my CRT I understand not wanting to lug one around. Geting this beat up my stairs was a chore.
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lan parties are lame
~
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got no friends mm.
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I\'ve seen lan parties on shows like Dave attel and I\'d have to say, dorks need lovin\' too.
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there\'s no point in lan parties when we\'re all on fat 2mb+ lines
it\'s not like everyone is on dialup with 400ms pings anymore.
hell, every modern fps even has lag free voice chat built right in
why cram 40 nerds into a firehall/basement/etc so they can show off thier l33t gateway rigs?
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may i ask...
what is lan party?
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when 2 or more pc gamers sit in the same physical area to play pc games, most commonly fps\'s.
it\'s bring your own pc, hub/switches are normally provided. headphones are required (defeating the purpose of a social environment)
most times, they are quite organized and sponsored if a large number of people will be there. they can get in the hundreds, and even thousands
i\'ve been to a few in the past, and they sucked. too many kids that think they\'re internet tough guys cause they are good at counter strike. or they wanna argue all night over which game/map to play instead of just playing one.
the 21+ ones are slightly less annoying as drinking is encouraged.
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Originally posted by mm
there\'s no point in lan parties when we\'re all on fat 2mb+ lines
it\'s not like everyone is on dialup with 400ms pings anymore.
hell, every modern fps even has lag free voice chat built right in
why cram 40 nerds into a firehall/basement/etc so they can show off thier l33t gateway rigs?
u think we just play games.... :laughing:
racers are almost impossible to play over the net too, just because your on a 2mb line doesn\'t mean the knob down the street is. Not that you would even know people outside your own house. Must be fun to play against all those 12 year olds.
and i do them with mates only.. Not setup bs.
"dork" lol that\'s pathetic. Vid, you\'re posting on a gaming forum for fuck sake and are into video shit. How much more of a nerd could u be. :laughing: call me a dork, nerd or whatever you want.. I\'d rather fit into that category then the alternate one.
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Originally posted by mm
when 2 or more pc gamers sit in the same physical area to play pc games, most commonly fps\'s.
it\'s bring your own pc, hub/switches are normally provided. headphones are required (defeating the purpose of a social environment)
most times, they are quite organized and sponsored if a large number of people will be there. they can get in the hundreds, and even thousands
i\'ve been to a few in the past, and they sucked. too many kids that think they\'re internet tough guys cause they are good at counter strike. or they wanna argue all night over which game/map to play instead of just playing one.
the 21+ ones are slightly less annoying as drinking is encouraged.
oh I see. How one person play game against another person in a different state or country? does that still consider lan\'s party?
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lan = local area network.
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wow, soully gets quite hostile over this
must have hit a chord
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
lan = local area network.
Oh I see...trying to learn here...
so, what is the term used for people playing with or against another person online videogame from a different city/state/country?
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that\'s called the internet
;)
lan party you are in the same room as everyone else in the game
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lanparty.com%2Fgallery%2Fpringlesbig.jpg&hash=a08f0b4f8a1bd64439ab0145772cdf66b8a21f79)
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i see...I don\'t think I can handle Lan party long even if i bother playing it cause that looks somewhat uncomfortable. Headphone, sitting in the same spot for a long time, i prefer playing games with a few people like at home on the same tv or something instead of the lan party.
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Imagine how many boxes of Pringles and cans of Coke were consumed on that night.
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Those lan parties suck ass. Although they are good in some ways, you see some fights here and there.. pretty lame, but oh so funny.
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Those kids get in fist fights? I\'d pay money to see that.
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Saw one vid of a clan of jocks that kept picking on this one clan. The leader got fed up, punched the camera man, and challeneged one of them to go outside. The jocks backed down.
Mass computer gaming is too violent for me. Not to mention it repels women.
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Originally posted by THX
Not to mention it repels women.
Just the way you like it! :ghey:
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Originally posted by Samwise
Just the way you like it! :ghey:
TRUCE TRUCE!!!