PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Riku on September 14, 2005, 07:56:35 AM
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more scans...
http://www.darkzero.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5272
Supposedly 100% realtime. Looks damn good.
Why is he so old?
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probably that\'s how he\'s suppose to look like since MGS3, the setting was in the 70s and he looks like he\'s in his late 20s, early 30s. And now, more than 30 years have past. He should look like that?
But sometimes I don\'t like game with a rather strict reality. It would be cool if he still looks like how he is in his previous MGS series. It doesn\'t have to follow everything in reality.
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:eek: :bow: That looks very good ! WTF is up with the moustache ?
He looks so old becuz in the MGS story all clones of Big Boss suffer from advanced aging. It\'s rumoured to be a side effect of the gene therapy from which the cloing process originated.
Omg. Now I\'m even more hyped for that TGS trailer. Looks like a warzone indeed.
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Otacon:
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepages.nildram.co.uk%2F%7Ealandaly%2Fmgs43.jpg&hash=45b9b7f9ab745f86c32de4b1fcd2de783ddc203d)
F!cking amazing.
(Credit goes to the guy hosting it. if it goes down, pm me and I\'ll upload it)
more @ http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=1924549&postcount=239
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Holy shit.If its real time then FUCK even Killzone is feasible :eek:
Btw I think that could be Big Boss himself and not Solid Snake
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Big Boss has the patch on the other side... but yeah, it\'s astonishing. Apparently real time too (check the other scan with snake). Not sure if Otacon is as well, but I\'m not expecting it not to be.
Bloddy hell. :eek:
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Have you noticed that PS3 games have a more natural/realistic/lifelike/movie quality feel?What I have seen on XBOX360 so far looked like the previous generation only with improved lifeless graphics.
I think Sony\'s investment on the Cell may be hiding many unexpected aces under their sleeve :eek:
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I\'m actually a bit surprised about the comments here (or better lack there of)... is this place dying or what?
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Yea. But give us a break, he posted this a couple hours ago.
-Dan
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Still no one else posted.
sheesh
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Have you noticed that PS3 games have a more natural/realistic/lifelike/movie quality feel?What I have seen on XBOX360 so far looked like the previous generation only with improved lifeless graphics.
I think Sony\'s investment on the Cell may be hiding many unexpected aces under their sleeve :eek:
I haven\'t seen a game displayed for Xbox 360 that\'s going for gritty realism like Metal Gear Solid 4 so it\'s hard to say. It\'s a difference of art direction is I\'ll I\'m willing to argue at this moment.
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I am not refering only to the "gritty" realism but to the way animation, physics and effects are being displayied.
What impressed me so far with PS3\'s promises is the level of realism on physics and animation.
Although I dont see MGS4 in motion the poses and effects give an idea.
GOW is the most impressive XBOX360 game so far.It displays a level of detail probably surpassing the detail seen in these scans but the whole scene looks lifeless but extremely detailed.The same counts for other 360 games
My point is that the difference in art direction is probably a result from the difference in capabilities as well.
The tech demos showed at E3 werent aiming at visual detail anyways but to the level of detail in behaviour and physics.
So the emphasis was mostly on how natural/lifelike the games will feel.
Although Killzone,Motorstorm, and even Heavenly Sword(which had a less realistic art direction) probably didnt run real time on actual hardware emphasized on the level of natural feeling in interactivity, animation and behaviour.
I am not saying that 360 cant do any of these as if its a prooven fact but I am guessing from what I ve seen so far that this is what might make the PS3 stand out.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I am not refering only to the "gritty" realism but to the way animation, physics and effects are being displayied.
What impressed me so far with PS3\'s promises is the level of realism on physics and animation.
Although I dont see MGS4 in motion the poses and effects give an idea.
GOW is the most impressive XBOX360 game so far.It displays a level of detail probably surpassing the detail seen in these scans but the whole scene looks lifeless but extremely detailed.The same counts for other 360 games
My point is that the difference in art direction is probably a result from the difference in capabilities as well.
The tech demos showed at E3 werent aiming at visual detail anyways but to the level of detail in behaviour and physics.
So the emphasis was mostly on how natural/lifelike the games will feel.
Although Killzone,Motorstorm, and even Heavenly Sword(which had a less realistic art direction) probably didnt run real time on actual hardware emphasized on the level of natural feeling in interactivity, animation and behaviour.
I am not saying that 360 cant do any of these as if its a prooven fact but I am guessing from what I ve seen so far that this is what might make the PS3 stand out.
heh...
I\'m going to wait to see it in motion before I say anything about the animation. I\'m going to wait for some gameplay impressions or play it for myself before I go raving about the physics.
The tech demos at E3 for the PS3 were just that, tech demos. The games shown at E3 for Xbox 360 were actual works in progress. We\'ve been over this already.
I don\'t know how you can tell so much from a picture, a magazine scan no less.
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Realtime as in.......
Realtime as in what game looks like while being played.
Or.
Realtime as in MGS2 opening Intro, which was damn impressive, but did not look like the actual game.
Big difference in those "realtimes".
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Originally posted by Unicron!
GOW is the most impressive XBOX360 game so far.It displays a level of detail probably surpassing the detail seen in these scans but the whole scene looks lifeless but extremely detailed.
How does the MGS4 screens look full of life? They are very limited and doesn\'t show much at all. Seems ridiculous to be assuming so much from so little. A shot showing snake looking like Jonah Jameson with a stick up his ass doesn\'t prove much.
Anyway, this game is what I\'m getting a PS3 for. I\'m surprised that Snake is now old. I want to see how Kojima unfolds this story.
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I don\'t want to play Snake with heart disease. Actually I wouldn\'t care as much if it wasn\'t for that damn moustache!!
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Lol, who cares what he looks like. As long as the game is kick-ass I\'d play with a grandma as a character.
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no you won\'t
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Originally posted by Soul Reaver
no you won\'t
Yes I will. I\'ll even make her do lewd stuff.
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Originally posted by Riku
heh...
I\'m going to wait to see it in motion before I say anything about the animation. I\'m going to wait for some gameplay impressions or play it for myself before I go raving about the physics.
The tech demos at E3 for the PS3 were just that, tech demos. The games shown at E3 for Xbox 360 were actual works in progress. We\'ve been over this already.
I don\'t know how you can tell so much from a picture, a magazine scan no less.
If you read my post more carefully you ll see the words "promise" "aiming" and "emphasis" ;)
Killzone. Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword werent tech demos only, but supposed to represent games.
I didnt say thats what we are going to get either but thats what probably we are going to get since there was emphasis put in the physics that will be present in game.
How did I assume so much?Well, Hideo Kojima hinted that the game\'s realism wont be based on the level of graphical detail only but in other aspects like animation and physics.Also MGS2 based a lot of its realism not on only on the graphical detail but the way the enviroment behaved so thats another indication.
Now about the screens.Snakes facial expression looks natural.Not like a "Small Soldier"-looking lifeless facial expression which is very apparent in many games.
The skin looks like it has its own realistic muscles that give a lifelike feeling to the face even if there is no intense expression
(The better the ability to calculate facial expressions the more natural and expressive a face will look like Otacon\'s face.)
At the lower pic you can clearly see a realistic pose.It could be motion captured animation from a cut scene or whatever.But I am only speculating.You can understand the motion from his bandana\'s position.
http://sylphys.ddo.jp/upld2nd/game2/src/1126699534613.jpg
Lastly is the example of the walker bipedal thing.It looks like it has its own weight.
Ofcourse I am not saying these as facts.I am only speculating like everybody else.
As I said previously:
I am not saying that 360 cant do any of these as if its a prooven fact but I am guessing from what I ve seen so far that this is what might make the PS3 stand out.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
If you read my post more carefully you ll see the words "promise" "aiming" and "emphasis" ;)
Killzone. Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword werent tech demos only, but supposed to represent games.
I didnt say thats what we are going to get either but thats what probably we are going to get since there was emphasis put in the physics that will be present in game.
How did I assume so much?Well, Hideo Kojima hinted that the game\'s realism wont be based on the level of graphical detail only but in other aspects like animation and physics.Also MGS2 based a lot of its realism not on only on the graphical detail but the way the enviroment behaved so thats another indication.
Now about the screens.Snakes facial expression looks natural.Not like a "Small Soldier"-looking lifeless facial expression which is very apparent in many games.
The skin looks like it has its own realistic muscles that give a lifelike feeling to the face even if there is no intense expression
(The better the ability to calculate facial expressions the more natural and expressive a face will look like Otacon\'s face.)
At the lower pic you can clearly see a realistic pose.It could be motion captured animation from a cut scene or whatever.But I am only speculating.You can understand the motion from his bandana\'s position.
http://sylphys.ddo.jp/upld2nd/game2/src/1126699534613.jpg
Lastly is the example of the walker bipedal thing.It looks like it has its own weight.
Ofcourse I am not saying these as facts.I am only speculating like everybody else.
As I said previously:
I don\'t care, but I think you\'re making too much out of too little. I\'ll wait for something a little more concrete before I attempt to argue which system is more capable in any terms, but you may carry on.
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Unicron is a retard don\'t worry.
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But Jumpman is more
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Originally posted by Riku
I don\'t care, but I think you\'re making too much out of too little. I\'ll wait for something a little more concrete before I attempt to argue which system is more capable in any terms, but you may carry on.
I am guessing.I didnt say PS3 is more capable
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I am guessing.I didnt say PS3 is more capable
I know you are guessing, obviously you haven\'t played it and you\'re privy to the same information and resources I am. Having said that, I don\'t see anything to suggest that PS3 is more capable. Motorstorm and Killzone were tech demos, concept art, they weren\'t actual in-game play or work-in-progress demonstrations. Heavenly Sword was supposedly representative of actual work-in-progress, but the developers themselves stated that the close up facial animation, something you seem to suggest as evidence the PS3 might be more capable, was prerendered. Other than Heavenly Sword and GT4 Vision, I don\'t think we\'ve seen an actual game in motion that is running on actual PS3 hardware. On the other hand, most of everything you\'ve seen on Xbox 360 is actual work-in-progress. It\'s not an even ground for comparison.
If you want think that the PS3 is more powerful then that\'s fine, but don\'t try to start an arguement when you have next to nothing to support your opinion.
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I didnt say anything different from your first paragraph
As for the last sentence I did back up my opinion.The difference is that I estimated, I refered to possibilities.I didnt state it as fact nor did I say that PS3 is more powerful.
I was refering to them as probabilities and not as concrete facts.I didnt use them to proove that PS3 is this and that but what "could" to speculate which I admited.I didnt say I cant be wrong.
Because if I said that PS3 was more powerful only then I wouldnt have had anything to back my opinion.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
As for the last sentence I did back up my opinion.The difference is that I estimated, I refered to possibilities.
But you made the comparison of tech demos to work-in-progress. I don\'t consider that to be common grounds for evidence to come to a conclusion that PS3 might be more powerful...
You know what, I don\'t care. We\'ll see soon enough.
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I was refering to what they might be aiming at.MGS4 is a work in process title that could be proof to that aim.
Its a misunderstanding.I was refering to what kind of realism they might be aiming for the PS3.
I didnt state that as fact or that XBOX360 wont be able to do the same for sure.
There wasnt any reason for an arguement in the first place.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I was refering to what they might be aiming at.MGS4 is a work in process title that could be proof to that aim.
Its a misunderstanding.I was refering to what kind of realism they might be aiming for the PS3.
I didnt state that as fact or that XBOX360 wont be able to do the same for sure.
There wasnt any reason for an arguement in the first place.
I was trying to see where you were coming from, and what supported your opinion. I still don\'t get it, but that\'s okay.
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Oh lookie lookie.Its almost as if I ve seen the video before. ;)
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Oh lookie lookie.Its almost as if I ve seen the video before. ;)
But you didn\'t.
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But:
"Unseen" could be described as the inner aspect. For instance, if one were to talk about realistic graphics in the gaming industry, he or she would be referring to an image that is photograph-like. That, however, is reality from an external perspective and does not necessarily take into account the inner aspect. In the past, buildings in games were similar to those found on movie or stage sets and were merely pictures or photographs of wall-material pasted on the surface of a polygon model. The characters created on infinitesimally thin boards were also devoid of any signs of inner flesh, blood, or heart
Difference between previous generation and next generation
Also a similar difference between 360 titles shown so far and MGS4
The inner aspect is unseen and establishes its presence only through time and the will of the player. This will pave the way toward a revolutionary change that will lead us away from the past concept based on "reality" towards the "natural."
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/651/651347p1.html
I was right ;)
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No, Uni. You spoke of animation and physics before you had the chance to see them in motion. Given Kojima\'s outstanding record and the touted power of the PS3 you could make a reasonable assumption that it would look great, but you can\'t be for sure. Case in point, Killzone. Looks really good in the shots released but the final product was...not what you\'d expect. Choppy animation, clipping, and a poor lod system really killed it. From the screen shots there\'s no way one could have known that.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Also a similar difference between 360 titles shown so far and MGS4
I still think it all comes down to artistic direction. I mean, I don\'t think you\'re arguing on the capabilities of the 360...are you?
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Nah, i don\'t think he is.
It\'s just a fact that Kojima\'s dev team are PS2 coding veterans. They\'ve invested alot in specializing in researchin that architecture. It is only logical that they\'ll make the most smooth transition to PS3, even though Mr Kojima himself has praised the Xbox360 devkit alot.
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Originally posted by Riku
No, Uni. You spoke of animation and physics before you had the chance to see them in motion. Given Kojima\'s outstanding record and the touted power of the PS3 you could make a reasonable assumption that it would look great, but you can\'t be for sure. Case in point, Killzone. Looks really good in the shots released but the final product was...not what you\'d expect. Choppy animation, clipping, and a poor lod system really killed it. From the screen shots there\'s no way one could have known that.
I didnt say I know for a fact.I estimated.
And my estimations on what the screens showed werent out of place.From the physics like the dust and the objects floating in the air, the facial expressions, down to the Metal Gear looking thing that seems to have its own weight, the movie looked like a heavy based real time physics demonstration where everything had life.Looked like a virtual world rather than code that is supposed to look like a world.
The shots were from the same movie we saw and I estimated based on what the shots shown.The movie showed exactly what I understood from the shots that were taken from it.
Ofcourse the movie was a cut scene but it shows as well as Kojima\'s statements that physics is one of their aims to make the game feel convincing more like a virtual world rather than code that is supposed to represent visual representation of objects.
I still think it all comes down to artistic direction. I mean, I don\'t think you\'re arguing on the capabilities of the 360...are you?
That I dont know yet.But it was evident that talks about the PS3 from Sony emphasized a lot on physics, behaviour and interactivity.
Not saying that PS3 is more capable than the 360 as a total.XBOX360 might be more capable in other aspects or they might be both as capable in every aspect.I am describing only what was shown and told so far.I didnt mention anything as fact or expressed an opinion saying that PS3 is more capable for a fact.
Take Resi5 for example.If the pics were indeed taken from the XBOX360 version running real time then I can expect X360 to be as capable as PS3 in the same aspects as well.But before that I didnt see a similar example like it.And this is what I ve been waiting to see on XBOX360 and I did with Resi5.It has the same realistic/movie like/natural feel promised from the PS3 which can be achieved with physics, effects and animation only that its running on XBOX360 instead.
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Originally posted by Unicron!
Ofcourse the movie was a cut scene but it shows as well as Kojima\'s statements that physics is one of their aims to make the game feel convincing more like a virtual world rather than code that is supposed to represent visual representation of objects.
you are saying MGS4 shown on TGS is prerendered CG not real-time?:confused: Or by cutscenes, you mean its more cinematic, not CG FMV? I am confused here by the definition of cutscenes...
Cutscenes doesn\'t mean CG right nor real time?
So, if cutscenes doesn\'t mean CG, then it\'s right to say real-time cutscenes or CG cutscenes for videogames?:confused:
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I think you can say real time or CG cut scenes
But in this example I ment real time cut scenes.The fact that it was real time but didnt show gameplay footage :)
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Originally posted by Unicron!
The fact that it was real time but didnt show gameplay footage :)
Got it, I was confused with the term cutscenes, because I thought it meant CG Movie, CG Video, FMV, rendered video, pre-rendered video/move...blah blah blah...which basically means the same thing.
And I thought cutscenes fall into the category of FMV, rendered video...you know....
but cutscenes just mean cinematic or scenes being play like a movie just for watching. But unlike the term CG or rendered video, where its more specific that the scenes being play is rendered into a video format.
Cutscenes doesn\'t specify whether the movie being play is either CG or real-time.
There, I hope I make sense...
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You make to me :)
I should have specified if I ment real time or CGI so I wouldnt create some confusion
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nah. its just that when i first read the word cutscenes, i thought it meant CG/pre-rendered. Its just there there are too many terminology throwing out there that sometimes causes confusion to me. But now I know the definition of cutscenes.:D
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Originally posted by Unicron!
I didnt say I know for a fact.I estimated.
And my estimations on what the screens showed werent out of place.From the physics like the dust and the objects floating in the air, the facial expressions, down to the Metal Gear looking thing that seems to have its own weight, the movie looked like a heavy based real time physics demonstration where everything had life.Looked like a virtual world rather than code that is supposed to look like a world.
The shots were from the same movie we saw and I estimated based on what the shots shown.The movie showed exactly what I understood from the shots that were taken from it.
Ofcourse the movie was a cut scene but it shows as well as Kojima\'s statements that physics is one of their aims to make the game feel convincing more like a virtual world rather than code that is supposed to represent visual representation of objects.
That I dont know yet.But it was evident that talks about the PS3 from Sony emphasized a lot on physics, behaviour and interactivity.
Not saying that PS3 is more capable than the 360 as a total.XBOX360 might be more capable in other aspects or they might be both as capable in every aspect.I am describing only what was shown and told so far.I didnt mention anything as fact or expressed an opinion saying that PS3 is more capable for a fact.
Take Resi5 for example.If the pics were indeed taken from the XBOX360 version running real time then I can expect X360 to be as capable as PS3 in the same aspects as well.But before that I didnt see a similar example like it.And this is what I ve been waiting to see on XBOX360 and I did with Resi5.It has the same realistic/movie like/natural feel promised from the PS3 which can be achieved with physics, effects and animation only that its running on XBOX360 instead.
Yes, I know. All I\'ve been trying to get across, and perhaps I should have said it outright, is that your conclusion was a bit premature. As I said before, I don\'t care, and carry on.
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Ahm you dont care yet you were the first to comment on my posts :p