PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: hyper on October 16, 2005, 01:13:39 PM
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http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5049770
"The accord between the Kurds and Shias gives the former extreme autonomy, while pleasing the latter by giving the constitution not only an Islamist tint but also letting Shias (and Sunnis) form their own decentralised regions. But Sunnis believe that this would further divide the country, to their detriment. In particular, Sunnis worry that the Shias could form a “super-region” of up to nine provinces, with links to neighbouring Iran, presaging Iraq’s eventual break-up into three countries. Furthermore, the article in the draft constitution dealing with the allocation of oil revenue has worrying ambiguities that could be abused by the Shias and Kurds, who sit on most of the country’s oil fields."
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Assuming the constitution, for all its flaws, has been approved by voters, it will pave the way to a new form of governance that will be the most federal and decentralised in the Middle East, establish a fair set of rights and values, and, with luck, improve life for all Iraqis. If all indications so far are wrong and it is rejected, the December parliamentary elections will have to be followed by a fresh round of constitution-drafting. Even in this pessimistic case, the increased Sunni representation in the new parliament should improve the chances that the second stab at a constitution would be more widely acceptable.
More reassurances needed
There is plenty that the current and next parliaments can still do to reassure Sunnis and undercut support for the insurgency. Guarantees could be offered to former members of Saddam’s Baath party who have no blood on their hands that they have nothing to fear. A ruling could be made that no region may comprise more than four provinces, in order to block the formation of super-regions. The constitutional articles regarding oil revenues could be clarified and amended to ensure that Sunni-inhabited areas which lack oil reserves are not done down.
Now that the referendum has been held, and apparently ended in success for the constitution\'s drafters, it is vital for Iraq’s emerging new order to divide the insurgents and reach out to Sunni nationalists. If things go well, the political momentum that has fizzled since January’s elections may be recovered. But Iraqis still need to try harder to clasp hands across sectarian barriers."
Would a division of Iraq into three separate nations based on ethnicity be beneficial? I would imagine it would tone down possible the sectarian violence that may arise if they were all forced to live in the same boundaries. However, it would dramatically weaken the power of Iraq and may be counter-productive in that the three countries could go to war over the oil that was once supposed to be common property.
Anyway, if the constitution succeeds in bringing democratic progress to Iraq, as the current conditions very cautiously indicate, then my hats off to Bush... you\'ve done the right thing, Mr. President.
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Great. Now set up Iraq\'s police and military Mr. Bush and get our troops out of there. Please?
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We\'ll be in Iraq for years. We won\'t be there in the numbers we are now but we will have atleast and outpost with troops there.
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Weren’t they building permanent bases in Iraq? Somewhere around 18 permanent bases or so?
You\'ll be there for years, you have a new vassal. :)
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im kind of worried about how the sunnis are going to react. I guess 1/3rd of them want the constitution and 2/3rds dont, but the 2/3ds wont be enough to sway the decision.
So to have 2/3rds of a group like the sunnis against the constitution, and now theyll be stuck with it, could kind of see that being a problem.
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Well shit I just say they seperate the fucking country in to religions and fuck them. I know thats not the answer, but they could seperate in to different states with the different religious leaders, but I doubt that\'d work too because the religous leaders are too narrow minded and power hungry over there anyways.
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Originally posted by mjps21983
Well shit I just say they seperate the fucking country in to religions and fuck them. I know thats not the answer, but they could seperate in to different states with the different religious leaders, but I doubt that\'d work too because the religous leaders are too narrow minded and power hungry over there anyways.
Don\'t you read the news/history? Can we say the debacle that is Israel and Palestine?:eek:
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Originally posted by Viper_Fujax
im kind of worried about how the sunnis are going to react. I guess 1/3rd of them want the constitution and 2/3rds dont, but the 2/3ds wont be enough to sway the decision.
Ahh, truly democratic.
-Dan
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I don\'t know why they don\'t split the country up into several states. It worked for the US.
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Yeah, then they can have their little war and as long as they keep it civil like we did, it\'ll be fine.
-Dan
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
Don\'t you read the news/history? Can we say the debacle that is Israel and Palestine?:eek:
Thats not really a good example. Sunni or Shi\'ite they are still muslims they will get along better than a Jew who takes holy land from the Muslim.
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Originally posted by Ghettomath
Don\'t you read the news/history? Can we say the debacle that is Israel and Palestine?:eek:
Who caused that debacle? The Arabs for not willing to recognize the State of Israel and leave it in peace. I have no pity for the PALS or their Arab sympathizers - they attacked Israel not once, not twice, but FIVE times - simply because of their intolerance - and had their asses handed to them ALL FIVE TIMES.
Suprisingly I agree with you Ghetto, Arabs have proven they can\'t live in peace with their neighbors even if they are the same religion AND fellow Arabs. We can\'t just leave and divide Iraq up into seperate countries.
If the Arab world wants to be given responsiblity for its own destiny it needs to do a couple of things to earn the world\'s trust. One thing the Arab world needs is to go through a "renaissance" just like Europe did after the Dark Ages. Religion plays too much of a role in the Arab world and has held it back in comparison to much of the rest of the world regarding science, literature, art and social reforms.
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A good example of just getting along would be Hong Kong. Did the Chinese rebel in Hong Kong after the Brits took over? Nope. They established and became fucking rich.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/24/AR2005102401734.html
Scowcroft, in his interview, discussed an argument over Iraq he had two years ago with Condoleezza Rice, then-national security adviser and current secretary of state. "She says we\'re going to democratize Iraq, and I said, \'Condi, you\'re not going to democratize Iraq,\' and she said, \'You know, you\'re just stuck in the old days,\' and she comes back to this thing that we\'ve tolerated an autocratic Middle East for fifty years and so on and so forth," he said. The article stated that with a "barely perceptible note of satisfaction," Scowcroft added: "But we\'ve had fifty years of peace."
"Fifty years of peace"... yes, peace for us, but brutal oppression for millions of Iraqis whose only real hope was outside intervention. Whatever his views on the integrity of the admnistration are, neither he nor anyone else in good conscience should discredit the value of democracy in Iraq.
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democracy is overrated....
at best it is the lesser of two evils. good luck establishing it in a land that\'s way too divided.
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democracy is overrated
amen
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Originally posted by videoholic
I don\'t know why they don\'t split the country up into several states. It worked for the US.
I think Iraq is too small to be broken up into states. A federal system of government there is harder than here. If they broke up into states, they would be the size of counties here, unless they broke up into like 3 or 4 states and had a type of dual federalism where the federal government cooperates with the state level governments. Otherwise, a unitary government is the way to go where it is democratic.
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Originally posted by Titan
I think Iraq is too small to be broken up into states. A federal system of government there is harder than here. If they broke up into states, they would be the size of counties here, unless they broke up into like 3 or 4 states and had a type of dual federalism where the federal government cooperates with the state level governments. Otherwise, a unitary government is the way to go where it is democratic.
Your probably right, but to get the different culture to agree on anything now as a whole is terrifieng
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democracy is way overrated. let\'s focus on making Iraq liberal first. If not they will end up with an illberal democracy which doesn\'t help anyone. Someone please listen to Fareed Zakaria.