PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Knotter8 on November 05, 2005, 12:26:22 PM
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That\'s right. This summer I applied to many gamedevelopment studios for a modeler job. On 3rd of August I got a
non paid internship at Streamline Studios in the Netherlands. It was meant as a trial for hire contract.
This week I had been offered no contract for hire but an extension of that internship (with a possibility to contract). I gracefully declined.
These 3 months of working as a 3D modeler on one of their Xbox360 games have been a great experience, but also one that was very taxing.
Don\'t get me wrong ; Streamline is a great studio with great ppl, but I learnt more about both myself and the games industry in general. At this point I came to the conclusion that I do not wish to be there any longer. Like I said : It was a great experience, I learned alot but imho i had to make to huge a sacrifice to keep it up.
50 hours per week was the bare minimum. That\'s still pretty doable, even if it\'s unpaid. The tough weeks were the crunchtime weeks. I\'d often find myself working until 22:15 or even 23:00 pm three times per week to meet the rigid deadlines on 3D models.
So, I learnt alot and I am thankfull to Streamline for it but I chose to not have such a lifestyle. I will register as freelancer and make use of my own software licenses.
I hope this sheds some realistic light onto what it takes to create the games we play.
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Would you have stayed if you were being paid?
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Im sure it would have helped. Offering a person an extended intern is fugged up. I dont think its right, bleeding newcomers of their talent is messed up. Unfortunately, Im sure it will keep happening for a very,,, very long time.
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wow, 50 hours per week is like 7 hours per day if you include the weekends too...you people sure are workaholic. Reading that, I was thinking, you guys need some days off to rest your mind...
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Originally posted by Paul2
wow, 50 hours per week is like 7 hours per day if you include the weekends too...you people sure are workaholic. Reading that, I was thinking, you guys need some days off to rest your mind...
Sorry but ;
official workdays are from 10:00 am 19:00 pm , 5 days per week.
Of course, gameprojects are bound to deadlines.
In reality this meant being at the office at 9:35. Actually working at 9:45 - 10:00 am until 13:00 lunch break which was 30 to 45 minutes on average. Then work again, shutting down 3Ds Max at 20:05. That would be a \'normal\' swift day.
Overhours are unpaid, so if I saw that a deadline would be tight I would work overhours. Those were the 22:00 pm days.
So a normal week would be 5 x 10 hours. A busy week 2 x 10 hours and 3 x 12 hours.
The programmers actually do more hours than artists do, in crunchtime weeks. In such weeks ppl were requested to work on weekends as welll. Interns were not obliged to do so, though.
Anyway, money is and will never be my main argument.
A solid contract offer, that is what i was after. Then I experienced, first hand those crunchtime hours and all those factors combined led to my decision to not opt for such a career / lifestyle.
There are some very great and gifted ppl working in the games industry. But imho, they do sacrifice alot of their life for that kind of work.
At 27, I decided i want to enjoy offtime life a bit more before i turn 30.
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Yeah, expanding your horizon is the best thing to do.
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What did you expect? It is common knowledge that game development is a taxing industry and one that takes its tow on the workers. I foget the stat\'s , but there was a survey done on the rate of divorce with people who work in the industry and guess what - it was extremely high. Doing it for free just means free labor and even more reason to work you to death.
I\'m sorry to hear your dream was crushed, but I don\'t think you had a realistic view of your dream to begin with.
/ workin\' 69 hours this week..Paid.
;)
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Dude, you make me look like some 16 y o kid whose boydream just got crushed.
Get real. I knew of the industry before. Yes I read EA\'s scandal beforehand.
There\'s such a thing as actually \'trying\' something. Experiencing something anyway becuz there is ambition in ppl regardless of known hurdles.
There were many interns besides me. They all gave up early. I was the only who completed the internship. It\'s all about the expression of a certain path.
But at least, I\'ve experienced it now and i know now by experience i do not whish to choose for such a career which features such hours as common thing.
Congrats on your paid 69 ;)
Personally, I wouldn\'t choose that one either.
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Dude, sorry to hear about your job but hey, I hope you have a lot of fun with the freelancing. I\'m sure whatever path you choose, you\'ll do well.
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Yeah, stories like yours are all too common. Makes me worry about pursuing a job in the industry.
Also makes me glad I have the job I have now.
Good luck in your future endeavors guy.
Thats some good spelling I know.
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If you read about the industry and knew the hours - then why bother? You obviously don\'t want to work a lot of hours, something that industry requires, so all you done was wasted time for free.
Either way - I wasn\'t trying to be harsh. Just saying, that if you can\'t pull the long hours you are not made for the industry.
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well one thing this industry needs is passion, but 50 hours a week is rediculous. I totally support your decision knotter.
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I do agree 50 hours is a lot. I on the average, work 34.5 hours a week. I just happen to be pulling a lot of overtime here lately and it does suck.
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50 hours would be a luxury for me...
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You know people in places like Italy and France think we are absolutly retarded for working that much.
I agree!
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I average around 45 hours a week, it doesn\'t bother me. But 50 hours is abit extreme, when your not getting paid for it, it does make it a lot worse. You\'d find if u were getting paid for it, it would make a big difference in your decision.
I do agree with you though knotter, to extend your interm after you were the only one to complete it was just bull-fucken-shit.
Don\'t listen to LIC, he\'s a lot like mm. Seems to think the entire world doesn\'t think shit through.
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I was working 70hrs per week at my past job. And sometimes I hated it but I loved the check. I hated my job though but the hours where not that bad once I saw the pay check.
50hrs is a lot of hours to work someone who is not getting paid. Anything over 20 is just horrible. I mean how do they expect you to make a living working you that many hours unpaid?
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Thats kind of my point. I can understand a 20 hr week for interns, but working them even 40 hours doesn\'t seem right to me. Regardless of what "the industry" is like, not everyone has the luxury of giving up 50 hours a week for free. Even if it is great experience. The whole esscence of an internship is to give the intern great, real life, experience at a company by allowing them to work for free or in somce cases they actually pay them. We have interns come in at our place every now and then. We usually pay our interns. As long as they treat it like a job. (which they usually do)
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Many companies are just run by azzholes that love to take advantage of interns with promises of full-time employment. The summer internship I had was the same way. Except 4 months, 20-30 per week. I was hoping they\'d consider hiring me (especially since they\'re ad said so) but the boss was French, so I knew I was doomed.
Overall it was a positive experience. I learned a ton, both about web design and about the rat race. But one internship is enough.
Glad you made out ok Knotter and I think you made the right decision as well. We\'re both back at square 1 :D
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Working an internship for free is definitely a raw deal.
I wanted to be a game programmer back in highschool til I started taking classes that way. I discovered real quick that the day-to-day was definitely not for me. That\'s when I decided to pursue writing about games. The finished products are a lot more fun than the work that goes in to them, at least as far as I\'m concerned.
Heh, for what it\'s worth though, I barely get paid for the stuff I write too.
-Dan
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Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Either way - I wasn\'t trying to be harsh. Just saying, that if you can\'t pull the long hours you are not made for the industry.
oh , sorry.
I am able to do 50 hour workweeks. It\'s the 54\'s to 56\'s which are the killers becuz they stretch that workday until 22:00 pm.
Yes, I had and still have ambition. But at 27 one realises that one can also enjoy every offtime moment before 30 a bit more preciously (having a social life, quality time with aging family etc. Things which imho alot of ppl underestimate in value).
For whizzkids at 20... this kind of industry might indeed be a good substitute for the academies they didn\'t got admitted at. At 20, most ppl still have that vast unbound amount of energy. Yeah.. I\'m starting to feel the age difference.
To all ambitious ppl here ; Great to see you have it too, but never let it eat you up so much until all there\'s left of you us nothing but ambition.
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did u ever jerk it to hawt 3D model chicks?
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Originally posted by Jumpman
did u ever jerk it to hawt 3D model chicks?
What\'s wrong with that? :op:
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Originally posted by Jumpman
did u ever jerk it to hawt 3D model chicks?
No, if you ever find yourself doing that, that\'ll be as low as you can go.
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lol, 50 hour work weeks
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without pay
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What\'s your incentive to filth up normal threads ? :rolleyes:
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Because we all know you did.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
without pay
Touché!
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Originally posted by Knotter8
What\'s your incentive to filth up normal threads ? :rolleyes:
See, the place where I come from is a small town. They think so small, they use small words. But not me Knotty. I\'m smarter than that. Nah nah nah nah BIG TIME.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
But not me Knotty. I\'m smarter than that. Nah nah nah nah BIG TIME.
Big accomplishment, there bud. It took this guy a year to figure out he was being used ..for free.
;)
j/k
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used?
it was an un-paid internship
that\'s resume fodder, and not much else
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It isn\'t even that if you don\'t plan on using it in the industry.
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You live and you learn, what\'s he supposed to do?
He wasn\'t happy with his current Emploratorium, so he\'s lookin\' to get himself in a more moneyfied situation.
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Funny.. how most of you guys still got it wrong...
Within that 3 months internship I learned stuff about the gamesindustry pipeline. I found out by experience, a confirmation about the stories which we all knew from the media/internet, rationally.
Technically i learned stuff applicable to general 3D work which I will continue to do and still love. It was 50/50 for them and me. On a longer term that balance would have shifted more towards them. I foresaw that, hence my decision.
I\'m just sharing with you guys, a reallife experience, a story about the development of games you and I play. It\'s the kind of insight you don\'t get unless you go in there and actually do it.
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so you saw no short-term benefit for yourself and quit?
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Sigh !
The initial deal was ; I applied for 3D job.
They offered to me an unpaid internship, from August 4th to November 4th. (with me paying all costs myself, including relocation & housing 367 Euros p/month and a 1100 Euros deposit and 550 Euros agent\'s commission)
November 4th they offered me a 3 months extension of that internship with no guarantee for a contract on February 7th of 06.
The game project we were working on, is due on Xbox360 Live ...... in February 06.
Couple that to the earlier statements of lotsa hours p/week & do the math...
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You should add this to your resume:
"you want fries with that?"
;)
fuck that shit man, they were milking yer ass. Hope you find what you are looking for.
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
You should add this to your resume:
"you want fries with that?"
;)
fuck that shit man, they were milking yer ass. Hope you find what you are looking for.
Exactly what I was thinking. They\'re in the business of staying in business. If they get your ass for free, you think they\'re going to give you a reach around? Hell no.
+1 for turning this into another gay porn thread. :p
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Internships are actually pretty popular to those of you goons who went to college.
Both parties benefit, even if the intern isn\'t hired full-time. Getting contacts in any industry is always important if you really want to break into it.
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Work experience alone is worth it, but at some point I guess you have to decide if your heart is in it.