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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Bozco on November 09, 2005, 12:59:54 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/11/08/evolution.debate.ap/index.html
I\'m all hopped up on vicodine from surgery yesterday so I\'m not going to try to debate this yet. Just does anyone else feel like this nation is starting to become a joke with stuff like this?
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Ummm, forgive my ignorance,
what does "intelligent design" really mean? I think I understand the word "Evolution", but I don\'t think I heard of the term "intelligent design" before...
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Off of dictionary.com
"a theory that nature and complex biological structures were designed by intelligent beings and were not created by chance"
In other words, it\'s the belief that the world is too complex for things to have just evolved this way. That instead their had to of been an outside force such as god creating it.
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Silly for them to try and force it into public schools.
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It would be a quick lesson at least.
"Yea and then God made Earth.. I dunno.. with a wand. OK? Alright, take out your times tables."
-Dan
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Why is it when I went to school none of this shit came up? This is retarded kids can\'t even say the pledge of allegiance anymore every morning. Its a damn shame that they have to fight about petty shit like this, teach darwinism as a science you can\'t prove intelligent design so it should be a none subject. Next we\'ll have two science classes one for religous bible thumpers and the other one for whoever cares.
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problem is you really can\'t prove either side
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Originally posted by Bozco
Off of dictionary.com
"a theory that nature and complex biological structures were designed by intelligent beings and were not created by chance"
In other words, it\'s the belief that the world is too complex for things to have just evolved this way. That instead their had to of been an outside force such as god creating it.
Aliens created us? I know for sure that Pugs were dropped off by aliens to keep their large eye balls on us tail-less monkeys.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Aliens created us? I know for sure that Pugs were dropped off by aliens to keep their large eye balls on us tail-less monkeys.
Not aliens, God. God created us. That\'s the debate. Those supporting it call it "intelligent design" so they don\'t have to say "God" even though they do. It\'s just another example of crazed Catholics trying to integrate religion into the school systems.
Oh, and Gman, pugs? You are a strange, strange individual...
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Catholics? I think you mean....Christian Fundementalists. After all, the Pope himself (the recently deceased) acknowledged the Theory of Evolution.
And yes. Pugs. Have you seen these little creatures that pass off themselves as dogs? Even the movie, Men In Black, had used them as aliens.
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All you have to do is wrap yer noggin around the vast, vast amounts of time involved here, and evolution is the clear winner. Look at humans. Average height 100 years ago was like 5\'5". Anyone over 6\' was a giant. And the bible-thumpers will say, "well, we have better food and medicine now"... Exactly. The ability for environmental factors such as food supply to shape a species proves evolution\'s validity. I can\'t believe humans can be so fucking arrogant to assume to be created by some magic man in the sky. We\'re essentially insects in the universe.
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Originally posted by Paul2
Ummm, forgive my ignorance,
what does "intelligent design" really mean? I think I understand the word "Evolution", but I don\'t think I heard of the term "intelligent design" before...
Created by theists who can\'t contend with evolution. Intelligent design has no scientific backing or evidence and is just something that is basically Creationism with different words.
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It\'s funny how those who support intelligent design choose to completely ignore one side of reality. Human beings are perfect creations? Then how do you explain goose bumps, allergies, and the coccyx - features that are useless? Even in the past two months we have seen the bird flu virus evolve into a potent threat against humans.
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I love seperation of Church and State.
Seemed to work great when Busch asked for the National Day of Prayer after Hurricane Katrina.
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Well, every currency has "In God We Trust". And when you promise to tell the truth and nothin\' but, yer left hand is on the Bible. Presidents make their oath on the Bible. There\'s a Christmas tree in the Whitehouse. We have Dec. 25th off, traditionally a religious Holiday, now the euphemism is "Winter Holidays" or something.
You can\'t wholy seperate religion. It\'s part of our culture. Tolerance is the key to being a good Christian. Don\'t believe me? I kill ya if you don\'t. Heathen. :mad:
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I\'m a christian and i\'m totally for seperation of church and state. No way in hell should my beliefs make or even affect how someone else chooses to live their lives.
oh and hyper, if we have all these organs and stuff we don\'t need in our bodies, why haven\'t we evolved yet? :p
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Same with JBean. You can\'t legislate a religion. Then you have zealots that say \'oh you\'re not praying right!! you have to bow 15x to the great wall of tootenkammen and give me 9 chuckie cheese tokens. Don\'t agree? Hope you like jail\'
In other words, the laws of man will ALWAYS screw up a religion\'s true values.
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hmmm...while i\'m not the most religious guy in here...yes i understand why don\'t believe in god..but ask yourself this question...where did we come from?...we just didn\'t appear here...whether you like it or not somebody created us...even with the big bang theory...with the planets exploding and forming amongst themselves....how could have humans been created from that?....riiight they could\'nt have been...
i would like somebody to explain where did we exactly come from? i know there were alot of times where i was in a jam and i wouldn\'t have came out of it unless of some outside element that made it fall in my favor...call it god or whatever,..but even going by any other logic, and in the way the planets were created in general, humans themselves,..even by evolution just couldn\'t have popped up here without some type of assistance.
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Well where did God come from. Something had to create him.
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i would like somebody to explain where did we exactly come from?
We were the prize inside a CrackerJack box.
People need to drop these frivolous arguments and realise it doesnt matter- we are here now, and we are fucking it up.
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Originally posted by (e)
We were the prize inside a CrackerJack box.
People need to drop these frivolous arguments and realise it doesnt matter- we are here now, and we are fucking it up.
tru no doubt...:laughing:...and titan any and everything comes from something...when we die i guess we\'ll find out...and all the leaders of the world have some type of religious faith...where did all that come from? whether it\'s corrupted or not, that faith comes from somewhere....
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The big bang theory is such a rediculous way of assesment to how the universe began. What the hell caused the big bang?
And God is the creator, He wasn\'t created. If you can\'t get past this part then you never will have faith in anything I or any other Christian has to say on the subject.
*hates religious threads and backs out slowly*
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Originally posted by JBean
The big bang theory is such a rediculous way of assesment to how the universe began. What the hell caused the big bang?
And God is the creator, He wasn\'t created. If you can\'t get past this part then you never will have faith in anything I or any other Christian has to say on the subject.
You\'re telling me that the big bang theory is rediculous but the thought of some greater being creating us isn\'t. Wow
Religion really has doomed our society. The scary part is the people that believe this stuff are in positions to vote on education in these states
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im on the internet like wow how did fuck did that happen from the world being a big ball of nothing?
I\'m not really sure what I believe.
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Originally posted by JBean
The big bang theory is such a rediculous way of assesment to how the universe began. What the hell caused the big bang?
And God is the creator, He wasn\'t created. If you can\'t get past this part then you never will have faith in anything I or any other Christian has to say on the subject.
*hates religious threads and backs out slowly*
Science > Religion
The big bang theory at least has tests and studies done to attempt and back it up. What does \'God\' have? Blind faith. I refuse to believe in blind faith.
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So what do you believe about Jesus.
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Originally posted by Jumpman
So what do you believe about Jesus.
That he didn\'t exist?
*everybody gasps*:p
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He did exist. That\'s not the controversy.
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I don\'t know about that. I don\'t remember reading about him in school...
-Dan
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Originally posted by clips
tru no doubt...:laughing:...and titan any and everything comes from something...when we die i guess we\'ll find out...and all the leaders of the world have some type of religious faith...where did all that come from? whether it\'s corrupted or not, that faith comes from somewhere....
Just because a leader believes in faith, doesn\'t prove it to be true. In fact, religion has been used as a weapon of leaders to control their people.
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Originally posted by Eiksirf
I don\'t know about that. I don\'t remember reading about him in school...
-Dan
Historically, there was a man in Jerusalem that was executed at around the time Jesus lived by crusifixtion and it was a rabbi. If he was named Jesus is something else. Also, Jesus wasn\'t executed because he was the son of God, he was executed for blasphemy.
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Originally posted by Eiksirf
I don\'t know about that. I don\'t remember reading about him in school...
-Dan
There\'s a lot of people you didn\'t read about in school. Does that mean they never existed?
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One of the worst thing that the theorists behind intelligent design espouse is the age of the universe/earth. Because we\'re only a dozen millenia old or so (according to them), when God created the universe/starts/earth, he actually put in all this scientific stuff on purpose that would give us a history. Fossilized bones, carbon dating, everything, created just as it is by some supreme being.
Psssssssycho.
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That\'s lame.
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http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17162341-13762,00.html?from=rss
end of story
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I have to admit, when I was growing up Catholic, I never could get over how much more tolerant the Vatican was towards evolution.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
There\'s a lot of people you didn\'t read about in school. Does that mean they never existed?
Sarcasm isn\'t your thing, is it evi...
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I\'m always sarcastic. How is NOT my thing? And why do you always pop out of nowhere to make dumb comments towards me? I\'ve never made it a point to bug you, personally...but apparently it\'s entertaining for you to bug me.
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Originally posted by EviscerationX
I\'m always sarcastic. How is NOT my thing? And why do you always pop out of nowhere to make dumb comments towards me? I\'ve never made it a point to bug you, personally...but apparently it\'s entertaining for you to bug me.
lol, evi you aren\'t the smartest man I\'ve ever met. Just read what he said and think about it.
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Evi, don\'t fool yourself, I only pop out of nowhere to make comments about people making dumb comments. Yeah, chew on that one for a while.
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You\'re both dicks to me, but I won\'t hold it against you. The post you commented I wasn\'t being serious in. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Bozco
You\'re telling me that the big bang theory is rediculous but the thought of some greater being creating us isn\'t. Wow
Religion really has doomed our society. The scary part is the people that believe this stuff are in positions to vote on education in these states
big bang theory....cut and dry...one big explosion.... planets formed..we\'re here...again i ask you how could have humans been formed from molten rock and lava?....those scientists just go on to say something along the lines of "and the first man was believed to have appeared around so many years ago"..:rolleyes:...they never go on to say HOW he became to be....i respectfully have to disagree with you & others on this one...
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I didn\'t say the big bang theory was 100% right did I? :rolleyes: All I said was it\'s no more rediculous than some greater being creating us.
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Big Bang = Let There Be Light
From nothing came everything.
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Everything came from something. The Big Bang doesn\'t have to be a religious thing. And time itself isn\'t even a constant.
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Originally posted by clips
big bang theory....cut and dry...one big explosion.... planets formed..we\'re here...again i ask you how could have humans been formed from molten rock and lava?....those scientists just go on to say something along the lines of "and the first man was believed to have appeared around so many years ago"..:rolleyes:...they never go on to say HOW he became to be....i respectfully have to disagree with you & others on this one...
Actually, there are studies of how life came to be from non-living material. It\'s been a while since I read all that so I\'m not going to say things that could be misquoted but look it up.
but yeah, once you get single cell organisms there is a pretty steady study on how organisms evolved from one another. (i.e. mitochondria in multicelled organisms are thought to be once single celled organisms that were in a mutual relationship with another single celled organism and they eventually evolved into one organism.)
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Originally posted by clips
those scientists just go on to say something along the lines of "and the first man was believed to have appeared around so many years ago"..:rolleyes:...they never go on to say HOW he became to be....i respectfully have to disagree with you & others on this one...
well, actually, they do.
what an ignorant thing to say. Only religions say shit with nothing to back it up.
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My high school Bio textbook had a section on how scientists were able to develop organic compounds from inorganic materials in laboratory conditions that simulated primitive Earth. Luckily, my roommate has a copy of the same book. Here it is:
Abiotic synthesis of organic molecules in a model system
Stanley Miller and Harold Urey used an apparatus similar to this one to stimulate chemical dynamics on primitive Earth. A warmed flask of water simulated the primeval sea. The "atmosphere" consisted of H2O, H2, CH4, and NH3. Sparks were discharged in the synthetic atmosphere to mimic lightning. A condenser cooled the atmosphere, raining water and any dissolved compounds back to the miniature sea. As material circulated through the apparatus, the solution in the flask changed from clear to murky brown. After one week, Miller and Urey analyzed the contents of the solution and found a variety of organic compounds, including some of the amino acids that make up the proteins of organisms.
Laboratory analogs of primeval Earth have produced all 20 amino acids commonly found in organisms, several sugars, lipids, the purine and pyrimidine bases present in the nucleotides of DNA and RNA, even ATP (if phosphate is added to the flask). Before there was life, its chemical building blocks may have been accumulating as a natural stage in the chemical evolution of the planet. [/b]
Cliff’s: the building blocks of life can all be produced spontaneously under natural, inorganic conditions. The book goes on to demonstrate the spontaneous formation of more complex organic polymers and “protobionts,” abiotic aggregates capable of maintaining an internal chemical environment different from their surroundings. I’ll post these too if you all want to read about it.
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*grin* ownage.
I don\'t have a theory on what came "before" - as in at the very beginning, what started the universe, the big bang, a bang cycle, or whatever. God is the alpha on a long enough timeline of "everything" where everything is the result of previous actions/reactions.
That said, that isn\'t what creationism is about. Creationism is about taking the genesis section of the Bible and applying it to the universe. Even though the church has dropped it\'s literal interpretation of the \'seven days\' as we know them know version of creation, the idea of creationism is still basically that God created the universe as it is now, right up to a few millenia ago (humans already developed, etc). The problem is this just contradics EVERYTHING we know about our universe.
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
well, actually, they do.
what an ignorant thing to say. Only religions say shit with nothing to back it up.
it\'s not ignorant chizz...;)..what those scientists are doin is based on theory not fact..."well we think that this happened when their earth was created"..it\'s on that order...basically just about every religion reconizes jesus...it\'s not just me sayin it but a billion other people as well...and c\'mon if life was so easily created as you guys want to believe why is their only life on earth? why not the other planets? All the other planets evolved the same way yet earth is the only one that can sustain life?..intelligent life as we know it?....what i can\'t believe is that some in here just think we just appeared from micro organisms..:p
millions and millions of years we just evolved from a one celled organism to a full structured bone and marrow organism...sorry i\'m not buyin it....and yea you can say that the bible has holes in it and maybe it does but that\'s why you have to do your research and read...what do you believe is going to happen to us as a race? even with all this technology we have now s**t is still gettin\' worse not better...no jobs are to be found, each generation that passes is worse than the other..the middle class is bein squeezed beyond recognition my son and daughter will have no social security, it goes on and on...the big guy upstairs is just lettin us run rampant with this stuff and is just givin us time to make our own choices...let me stop there... just keep in mind this is what i believe...and i respect what everybody else beliveve\'s in but i just feel that we just didn\'t evolve in the way some say....
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Among the planets in the solar system, only Earth has the right size, distance from the sun, and abundance of water to allow for carbon-based life. Other planets are too far from the sun (or too close), which leads to extremely long orbital times and dramatic drops in temperature, have no atmospheric protection from UV light, lack suitable water, etc. I\'m no planetary expert, but this is all stuff I learned in high school.
If you throw aside the religious falsifications and look on the molecular level, you find a constant vindication of evolution. Life is universally based on DNA, RNA, the same 20 amino acids, ATP, mitosis, meiosis, all of which lead to the case for an ancient prototype that gave rise to everything else. Even the question of the non-spontaneity of life can be answered when you consider the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It frustrates me that proponents of intelligent design constantly raise biological questions that research has in almost all cases already answered. The reason that intelligent design has such mass appeal is because of its simplicity. One needs only to actually study biology to see that evolution is not just the random development of appendages, but a complex build-up at the molecular level. It is sad that more than half of Americans choose the easier alternative because they lack the drive to educate themselves.
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Well...with the law of averages, there\'s bound to be at least ONE planet that is habitable to sustain life. If scientists believed in miracles, Earth would be the only one they\'d believe. The right size planet in relation to the right size of the sun, the right average distance, the right type of other planets to give Earth the "ingredients" needed for the building blocks of life....
....basically, it\'s like flipping a coin and having it land on its side 50 million straight times. Anyway....we\'re here.
Any of my fellow stardust beings willing to bet there are no other planets that have intelligent life?
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Originally posted by hyper
If you throw aside the religious falsifications and look on the molecular level, you find a constant vindication of evolution. Life is universally based on DNA, RNA, the same 20 amino acids, ATP, mitosis, meiosis, all of which lead to the case for an ancient prototype that gave rise to everything else.
Why do you keep saying that? So what?
"We are all based on the same amino acid building blocks" yea sure, but it proves nothing.
If you knew a bit about the Bible it said God formed man from the earth which would also comply with the religious falsifications you speak of.
We could keep arguing back & forth but I swear to you no amount links and quotes will convert anyone here, and vice-versa. :hat:
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But then there are infinitely more planets out there, and one of them must contain life! Dammit, I wish I could go into astrophysics (or whatever this field is called) here, but then I\'ll never be able to able to buy my mom the Lexus she\'s always wanted. :) Oh, before I forget, CONTACT is an amazing movie to watch if you are interested about this stuff (although I\'m guessing that most of the people here have already seen it).
"Do you think there are people on other planets?\'\'
"I don\'t know. But if it\'s just us, it would be an awful waste of space."
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Originally posted by THX
Why do you keep saying that? So what?
"We are all based on the same amino acid building blocks" yea sure, but it proves nothing.
If you knew a bit about the Bible it said God formed man from the earth which would also comply with the religious falsifications you speak of.
We could keep arguing back & forth but I swear to you no amount links and quotes will convert anyone here, and vice-versa. :hat:
Like I said, that we all share the same building blocks tells me that we have a common ancestor. But you are right, I should not presume to "convert" anyone since I am no expert. And I would be a hypocrite if I blindly ignored religious arguments. End of discussion from me.
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Originally posted by hyper
Among the planets in the solar system, only Earth has the right size, distance from the sun, and abundance of water to allow for carbon-based life. Other planets are too far from the sun (or too close), which leads to extremely long orbital times and dramatic drops in temperature, have no atmospheric protection from UV light, lack suitable water, etc. I\'m no planetary expert, but this is all stuff I learned in high school.
If you throw aside the religious falsifications and look on the molecular level, you find a constant vindication of evolution. Life is universally based on DNA, RNA, the same 20 amino acids, ATP, mitosis, meiosis, all of which lead to the case for an ancient prototype that gave rise to everything else. Even the question of the non-spontaneity of life can be answered when you consider the Second Law of Thermodynamics. It frustrates me that proponents of intelligent design constantly raise biological questions that research has in almost all cases already answered. The reason that intelligent design has such mass appeal is because of its simplicity. One needs only to actually study biology to see that evolution is not just the random development of appendages, but a complex build-up at the molecular level. It is sad that more than half of Americans choose the easier alternative because they lack the drive to educate themselves.
I agree with you 100%. However, I read that the only other place that may have life on it is the moon Titan (I believe its titan). It supposedly has water and may support bacteria. Anyway, its just a theory. As well as the theory that Mars was once like Earth.
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When it comes to our creation, I will always choose to believe science over religion. Keep in mind that religion was created by man. Wonderfull little Life-teaching lessons for us humans to go by. We all need something to believe in. I think thats what makes religion so damn popular. The sad thing about all religions is the harm and hate it creates. (which is why I choose to stay away from it at all costs).
Just on a side note,
I love how there are so many different religions out there, yet all of them are "the way it is". (Impossible BTW). Every animal in nature, with the exception of a few, fit into their enviroment, creating a balance. To be honest. I think people are a planet-eating-fungus. Yes - God is an Omnipresent mushroom!
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Necropost!
The Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051221/ap_on_re_us/evolution_debate;_ylt=A86.I2fa6qlDZGIA9yIPLBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--)
In the first court decision rendered on (Intelligent Design) ID and evolution, ID took a nasty blow to the head. The Judge ruled that ID could not be taught in schools as it violates separation of school and state, that there is no scientific evidence to support ID, and that officials who wanted it taught gave inconsistent and downright perjurious (sp?) testimony.
Ka-zam!
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Originally posted by FatalXception
Necropost!
The Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051221/ap_on_re_us/evolution_debate;_ylt=A86.I2fa6qlDZGIA9yIPLBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--)
In the first court decision rendered on (Intelligent Design) ID and evolution, ID took a nasty blow to the head. The Judge ruled that ID could not be taught in schools as it violates separation of school and state, that there is no scientific evidence to support ID, and that officials who wanted it taught gave inconsistent and downright perjurious (sp?) testimony.
Ka-zam!
Heh. I think this is appropriate