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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: MPTheory on November 10, 2005, 09:50:15 AM
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Okay, It looks like I\'ll be creating a mini series for my sisters band, and I need to get a camera. We\'re going HD, and I know NOTHING about it. If this were to be picked up for television, would 16:9 ration be best desired? I was looking at this camera:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=399239&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation
This is pretty close to my maximum budget.
Any input?
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Great camera. Pricey at the moment. You could try the less expensive Canon XL2.
Here\'s a forum for the most popular digital video cameras. GL-2 is what I ownz.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/
For your camera of interest:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=75
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Holy cow that\'s a monster.
720p vs. 1080i that\'s the question. ABC and FOX use 720p while NBC, CBS, and DiscoveryHD use 1080i.
Personally I\'d prefer 720p because I\'m sick and tired of fooling with interlaced material. Everything should be progressive imo. You may be able to cut that price in half if you go for 720p max.
Nice links Gman, looking at the parent forum that Sony seems to be the most popular.
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Originally posted by THX
Holy cow that\'s a monster.
720p vs. 1080i that\'s the question. ABC and FOX use 720p while NBC, CBS, and DiscoveryHD use 1080i.
Personally I\'d prefer 720p because I\'m sick and tired of fooling with interlaced material. Everything should be progressive imo. You may be able to cut that price in half if you go for 720p max.
Nice links Gman, looking at the parent forum that Sony seems to be the most popular.
What\'s your major? Are you going Mass Communications or what?
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I\'m graduating with some weirdo degree my college offers but my focus was in internets & multimedia which was really cool to learn.
I\'m just an enthusiast when it comes to this video production stuff, videoholic should give you a better rundown of what\'s what with cameras.
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Me too. I like gadgets, especially dildos ;) . But my favorites are digital cameras (stills and footage) and editing them (PS and FCP).
I\'m through with weddings videos. I did three. Too much pressure. No one is ever satisfied and the amount of hours spent editing are not worth the money. Filming is more like a hobby now and no longer a side job.
At least I can enjoy it again.
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I\'m kind of in the same boat as you THX. My degree is Graphics and Multimedia, But I love video production.
Thanks for the links Gman
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Originally posted by MPTheory
I\'m kind of in the same boat as you THX. My degree is Graphics and Multimedia, But I love video production.
Thanks for the links Gman
Those guys know there shit. Some have worked in big Hollywood projects. mm might register there and give everyone the rolly eyes. :p
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Check out DVXuser.com as well, it\'s another favorite of mine (don\'t let the name fool you).
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I highly recommended you to "steer away" from going to HD format at this moment.
Reasons:
- the MiniDV tape for video bitrate is 25 Mbits per second, which is a high lossy compression for HD. The video degration will be noticeable after generations of rendering/editing.
- Cost. Still too expensive imo...
So, if I were you, I will would pick the original MiniDV if you don\'t have that already. A 3 Chips 1/3" MiniDV is really good at the moment until there is a HD camcorder that supports bitrate higher than 25 mbps for consumers. me, I prefer one running at least 100 Mbps or higher for way lesser compression ratio and better color sampling.
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That camera is HIGHLY compressed.
The compression scheme on HD is even more compressed than if you shot in DV mode.
It prints a frame every 15 frames. It uses formulas and shit to figure out the other 14 frames inbetween.
It also has no native codec on any of the edit systems which means you can\'t scrub video on a timeline without transcoding it.
Panasonic\'s new one that will record on P2 cards is the way to go because since there is no tape they can print at 100mb/s... http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=93120&catGroupId=14616&modelNo=AG-HVX200&surfModel=AG-HVX200
Your best bet is something like: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic_agdvx100_camcorder_review.htm from Panasonic or the XL2 which I think is coming out with an HD version soon (Or is it already out)
Don\'t get me wrong, I was hot on the Sony for a bit. But it is HORRIBLE for anything fast moving. If you are just shooting landscapes or you just want a nice MIni DV camera, then go for it. But for a band I wouldn\'t suggest it. Especially if you are shooting stage shows. Lighting and god forbid smoke would look fucking horrid on that camera.
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Originally posted by GmanJoe
Me too. I like gadgets, especially dildos ;) . But my favorites are digital cameras (stills and footage) and editing them (PS and FCP).
I\'m through with weddings videos. I did three. Too much pressure. No one is ever satisfied and the amount of hours spent editing are not worth the money. Filming is more like a hobby now and no longer a side job.
At least I can enjoy it again.
Never done a wedding and would never do a wedding. Oye. I\'d rather die.
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Oh, and if you ever plan on buying any video equipment, message me first. I have a guy who will beat anything.
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So $1,750 for 4 minutes of HD video (http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/P2/), lol. No doubt it\'s the way of the future but they\'re jacking up costs like it\'s nobody\'s business.
Why is it I can get a 4gb iPod for $250 that\'s also solid-state based but their 4gb P2 card is $1,750?? Welcome to the world of pro DV I guess. Let\'s hope a competitor also goes solid state so prices will drop.
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yeah, panasonic is getting a little too ahead into the future with the format storage. I would prefer hard disk drive as a temporary solution until flash cards can get a very good storage capacity before moving into flash cards for video.
its just that the storage capacity isn\'t there yet, not to mention the cost of those cards. Way ridiculously too expensive right now. But in 5 years, that may change...
Panasonic is heading in the right direction by offering consumer a video camera that using 100 Mbps for HD. While other company like Sony and Canon uses MiniDV 25 Mbps...
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The camera can be firewired into a portable hard drive unit. You don\'t need the flash cards.
Also, it\'s just the way the cards are built. There are 4 2gig SD cards arrayed together to get that type of banchwidth.
There are supposed to be 16 gig cards in the spring and hopefully 32 gig cards next fall. Prices will drop fast. You only need 3 of them and you are done forever.
Tapes are about 20 bucks a piece. I just dropped 300 bucks last week alone in tape at SEMA.
And Sony\'s HD is only 10 MB/s from what I remember. THat\'s why you get far more minutes in HD on a tape than in DVCam mode which is 25.
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Originally posted by videoholic
The camera can be firewired into a portable hard drive unit. You don\'t need the flash cards.
Cool. That is great because you can have an external HDD with say about 250 Gbytes and you can film and store over 5 hours of HD video running at 100 Mbps and uncompressed audio.
But this is no problems if you taping concert, or in a studio. What if you use it as a handycam say going around the park, i find that\'s a bit inconvenience having to carry the external HDD at the same time.
Tapes are about 20 bucks a piece. I just dropped 300 bucks last week alone in tape at SEMA.[/B]
that\'s a bit expensive per tape. Unless is studio DVCPro or DVCam\'s tape, otherwise consumers MiniDV tape should cost about $7 per tape that can record up to 1 hour of SD Video running at 25 Mbps.
And Sony\'s HD is only 10 MB/s from what I remember. THat\'s why you get far more minutes in HD on a tape than in DVCam mode which is 25. [/B]
I am confused here.
I am assuming you are talking about Sony HDV camcorder for consumers here...if so
I guessing you are talking 10 Mbits per second, not 10 Mbytes. Because 10 Mbytes = 80 Mbits which I doubt MiniDV support.
If you mean Sony HDV runs at 10 Mbits per second for HD Video, then that\'s way heavily compressed...and that would not makes sense if sony do that though if what you say is true...so I will stick with my guts and believe sony HDV uses around 25 Mbps for HDV...
either way, it\'s true 25 Mbps is still not enough bandwidth for filming High Def video.
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If you mean Sony HDV runs at 10 Mbits per second for HD Video, then that\'s way heavily compressed...and that would not makes sense if sony do that though if what you say is true...so I will stick with my guts and believe sony HDV uses around 25 Mbps for HDV...
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Nope..
It is well below 25 mbps... That\'s what\'s so funny. You can fit far more HD on a tape than SD. It is ridiculously compressed. Remember, I\'ts only really taking a frame of video every 15 frames.
And yes, I meant Mega bits.... It\'s always measured in Mega Bits for video. At least I\'ve always seen it that way.
And I\'m talking DVCam and Beta tapes when I told you 20 bucks. They are about 18 or so bucks a piece. I don\'t use little baby tapes. I use full size DV Cam and Beta.
The P2 cards are PCMCIA cards. You can slip them into your laptop and dump it off while you continue shooting if you don\'t want to carry around a hard drive on your shoulder. That\'s why if you were to buy this camera, you\'d want 3 cards. This way you can have the camera loaded with 2 and be downloading and clearing the third.
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Originally posted by videoholic
It is well below 25 mbps... That\'s what\'s so funny. You can fit far more HD on a tape than SD. It is ridiculously compressed. Remember, I\'ts only really taking a frame of video every 15 frames.
Nice info, if I remember correctly standard NTSC MiniDV is 25mbps with audio. It\'s sad that Sony is doing even less than that for the price they\'re asking.
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It\'s actually more than 10. I can\'t remember now. Maybe it\'s like 18. I remember it being very low, but not quite as low as direct tv.
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Bah, I need to find it. It\'s saying it\'s 25mb/s, but I know you can get more HDV on a tape than DV.
Don\'t get me wrong. I really lie the camera for an average camera, but for concerts and sports I would avoid it at all costs. Just way too much compression.
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Originally posted by THX
Nice info, if I remember correctly standard NTSC MiniDV is 25mbps with audio. It\'s sad that Sony is doing even less than that for the price they\'re asking.
Edit: Actually, I did the math and to be more precise, it\'s around 24.9 Mbits for video, with audio, its another extra 1.5 Mbits which equal about 26.4 Mbits total. 24.9 rounded up to 25 Mbps...
Originally posted by videoholic
Bah, I need to find it. It\'s saying it\'s 25mb/s, but I know you can get more HDV on a tape than DV.
Don\'t get me wrong. I really lie the camera for an average camera, but for concerts and sports I would avoid it at all costs. Just way too much compression.
I think the reason why HDV even if its record at 25 mbits per second and still can record longer than 60 minutes per tape may have to do with audio. they uses MPEG1 Audio Layer II instead of uncompressed PCM audio.
But on the spec, it said recording either on HDV or DV total time is 60 minutes...so I believe it should be around the same of 25 mbps for video bandwidth...
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Well I was in a seminar one time and the guy did say that you got more running time with HDV. Oviously that would be something I would remember cause I found it odd.
You can also firestore the video from this camera as well and get better bit rate.
A buddy of mine sells these cameras and never keeps them in stock because he doesn\'t want to sell them. THe video is just way too compressed to be happy with.
BTW, if any of you watch Hulk Hogan\'s show on VH1, they were out at SEMA and they had two cameras following them around and they were using this Sony camera for the show.
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I too want to get a good camcorder but don\'t know where to start. I have a much more limited budget.
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Originally posted by Titan
I too want to get a good camcorder but don\'t know where to start. I have a much more limited budget.
Your question have finally been answer.
I was going to suggest you panasonic GS-150 or GS-250 when you asked that question last November. But I am glad I didn\'t.
Because...
Panasonic recently announced GS500, GS300, and GS180 for their 2006 models.
And the interesting thing about GS500 is that it uses a bigger image sensor but cost $1,000 while compare to last year\'s model, GS250 that cost the same but uses smaller image sensor.
The GS300 probably have similiar specs of GS250 but cost $700. A $300 price break there.
Remember, all models mention are 3 chips CCD. In my opinion, its like only panasonic care about consumers. They are like the only company that offer consumers 3 chips CCD starting price at $600 and now they even include optical image stablization starting only at $700. Amazing. I remember reading somewhere that optical image stablization are tricky to make on the camera and are expensive.
Link (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-Replaces-3-CCD-Line-PV-GS180-PV-GS300-PV-GS500.htm)
Some stuff i like to quote from the link:
Las Vegas, CES, January 4, 2006 - At their press event today Panasonic announced updates to their 3 CCD line of consumer camcorders, including the replacement of their incredibly popular PV-GS400 with a new PV-GS500. The new PV-GS180 features a 10x optical zoom and a 2.5-in. LCD. The PV-GS300 and PV-GS500 use Panasonic\'s new 2.7-in. LCDs.
The PV-GS500 features a Leica Dicomar lens with optical image stabilization, the same 1/4.7” CCDs as the GS400, 4 megapixel stills, 12X optical and 700x digital zoom, 43mm filter thread, and focus and zoom on the multi-manual ring. The camcorder includes a pro-cinema mode, a 2.7” widescreen LCD, and the joystick menu controls introduced with the 2005 3 CCD camcorders.
1/4.7" CCD is bigger than 1/6" CCD that the GS250 have that cost $1,000 which is last year\'s model.
Add: So there you have it, I suggest picking either the PV-GS300 or if you are more serious about picture quality, go for PV-GS500. Good thing I wait too, because I am going to get the PV-GS500, I am quite excited...its like a $500 price drop with some features remove on the camcorder that is all right with me since picture quality is my top priority.
Oh last but not least, I believe they are coming out in a few months...so, again the wait...:D
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I kinda want something I can use for movies and stuff (to make, not pirate ;)) so I guess picture quality is #1. I think I may wait until I actually start my major in film to look at cameras, this way I have a better understanding on what I need instead of jumping to buy one and buy the wrong one.