PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: fastson on January 29, 2006, 03:18:02 PM
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Yep.. Now they\'ve finally done it.
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THEY BURNED THE DANISH FLAG!
Do they know what they have unleashed upon themselves? The WRATH of SAMWISE . :mad:
If you want the back-story its basically this:
A Danish newspaper (Jyllands-Posten) published a provocative cartoon of the Muslim Prophet Muhammed, the same cartoon was later used in an Norwegian newspaper.
This has sparked a crisis between these two nations (and probably us (Sweden) aswell since they cant seem to tell us apart ;) ) and some Muslim countries. For example; Libya has closed its embassy in Denmark, and Scandinavians have been told to leave the Gazastrip within 72 hours.
I haven’t seen the cartoon myself, Samwise do you know where I can find them?
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Haha, I love the handwritten “SELL”. :laughing:
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Lazy SOB. Easy to find, because of all the controversy.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.newspaperindex.com%2FMohammed-drawings-newspaper1.jpg&hash=a7709238065314d9dc414b899353c6760c64610c)
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They\'re only hurting themselves by cutting off trade with those nations.
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Surprised those guys burning the flag are able to get their hands on a Euro newspaper, much less read it.
Who\'s the white guy in the bottom cartoon?
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Funny how the door doesn\'t swing both ways. They can do it to one country and publish shit like that but when that country does it to them, they are in an uproar. I think they now see how it feels to be on the receiving end.
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Those comics are freaking HILARIOUS.
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Originally posted by THX
Surprised those guys burning the flag are able to get their hands on a Euro newspaper, much less read it.
I think it\'s because Molems in Denmark has told people in their home country what happend. And they told other people etc. I mean, they\'re probably all related. ;)
I\'m quite surprised what an uproar this has caused. It happened months ago and besides a few people being pissed, it didn\'t seem too bad. And now suddenly almost every Islamic country is boycotting Danish products.
At least it\'s only 1% of our annual exports, so even if ALL our products were boycotted, I don\'t think it\'d have much impact. Still, it bothers me.
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Eh, unless you get a shitload of people boycotting, it is just gonna be like when the Americans were boycotting France. It was just pointless and didn\'t hurt them.
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I can\'t believe the paper apologized! Sammy, you warned us about our freedoms being lost!?!?!
Oh the wonders of blogs...
Hungary sides with Denmark. Says the Hungarian foreign minister: "To us, freedom of speech is a cornerstone of a functioning democracy". The arab reaction is "unfitting".
In the arab parts of Palestine, the Danish representative office in Ramallah was fired on yesterday, and today demonstrations burned pictures of, among others, prime minister Fogh, US president Bush and Israeli prime minister Olmert.
In Iraq, a terrorist has issued a fatwa against the Danish battalion stationed there.
In Sudan, the foreign minister has urged "all sudanese companies and institutions to stop the omport of Danish products".
In Bahrain, the parliament has passed a resolution calling for boycott of Danish goods, and demanding apologies from the Danish government and the Danish queen.
A like resolution from the Egyptian parliament has brought EU trade commisioner Peter Mandelson to threaten opening an investigation into it, since government-sponsored boycotts are a breach of WTO-rules.
At the same time the Council of Arab Ministers of the Interior representing 17 arab ministers has demanded the Danish government punish those responsible for the 12 drawings.
Suicide bombers are threatening attacks on Denmark.
In Denmark, things are heating up, too:
Tuesday afternoon saw the web versions of papers Politiken and Ekstrabladet crash again after another hacker attack.
Likewise tuesday afternoon, the editorial offices of Jyllands-Posten in Århus and Copenhagen were evacuated after an english-speaking person telephoned in a bomb threat. About 300 employees were evacuated.
Prime minister Fogh urges against any counter-boycot of moslems in Denmark, as text messages are circulating calling for one such.
At the same time, Danish internal intelligence is urging against following any of the calls for demonstrations against the islamic aggression.
http://viking-observer.blogspot.com/
Yes its a rightwing Danish blog, but that is all you Danes have to fight against these bearded, turban wearing crazies. ;)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
I can\'t believe the paper apologized!
They apologized for hurting their feelings so to speak, they didn\'t apologize for bringing the drawings. Both the paper and the Danish government has stood their ground on the issue of freedom of speech.
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they really need to grow a damn sense of humor. I bet the only thing they laugh at is when people they hate die.
as for the issue..my respect for that whole region (sweden, denmark..all the same to me,lol) went up. Plus they have some of the best metal bands.
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Thanks FatalXception. :)
Having seen those drawings I find the situation even more hilarious! I mean.. no.. There is no understanding this. Fanatics (not exclusive to Islam btw).
In Bahrain, the parliament has passed a resolution calling for boycott of Danish goods, and demanding apologies from the Danish government and the Danish queen.
Taking things a weee bit to far, AYE?
Apology from the queen?
Next, deport all pigs or we will never forgive you. No more bacon for Denmark. :D
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Remember the Atlantic Wall and the concept of Fortress Europe? I think you guys need to reevaluate that concept somewhere near Greece. ;)
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Remember the Atlantic Wall and the concept of Fortress Europe? I think you guys need to reevaluate that concept somewhere near Greece. ;)
Hehe.. Maybe. ;)
We already have a \'fortress sweden\' according to one of our newspaper artists.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.aftonbladet.se%2Fdebatt%2F0309%2F07%2Fzetterling.jpg&hash=c3748720ebac496169b863c0b4ac82f3becf0b1b)
I think he makes fun of the Swedes negativity twoards anything which has to do with Europe.
He has made some good peices.
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Very true.
This one is for Giga. ;)
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After browsing through numerous posts on this subject through various boards from all leanings almost everyone outside of the Muslim world is in agreement on this. This is freedom of speech and what is building up here is a war of cultures - free society vs. Islam.
Now we have numerous European papers reprinting the cartoons - good for them. I guess what pisses me off the most is that Muslims as a whole think the rest of the world should abide by their rules and customs. These people aren\'t whining about the fact that he has a bomb on his head they are going nuts over his image alone!
Islam is in desperate need of a Renaissance, much like what Europe had back at the end of the middle ages.
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Originally posted by GigaShadow
Islam is in desperate need of a Renaissance, much like what Europe had back at the end of the middle ages.
Not gonna happen. And I say fine. Let them live in perpetual dark ages if they want to. I don\'t particularly care. In general I would say "don\'t mess with us and we won\'t mess with you." Whether that is possible NOW, I don\'t know, but I think it could be possible to adopt that stance toward the muslim theocracies.
The problem is that it won\'t hold for the long term. Eventually when the quality of life in South Asia and Latin America starts rising to the point where the labor force in those countries cannot be completely exploited, and pay rates begin to rise above poverty levels, the corporations will start looking elsewhere for exploitable labor. They will look at the middle east and say to themselves "maybe it\'s time we brought THEM into the global economy!" Corporations have already started to explore them as a market for consumer goods. When they begin to encroach on them as a source of cheap labor, then the backlash is really going to catch fire.
I think we need to ignore the middle east in every way. Develop alternate fuels so we don\'t have to buy their oil. Don\'t sell them products that clash with their cultural beliefs. Don\'t expoit their workforce. Don\'t take any interest in them whatsoever. They can do whatever they want as far as I care.
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Wow.. its getting worse.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/religion_cartoons_dc;_ylt=AhPexQII1N01rkshqWftZJus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
Up to 300 militant Indonesian Muslims went on a rampage in the lobby of a building housing the Danish embassy in Jakarta.
Shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is Greatest), they smashed lamps with bamboo sticks, threw chairs, lobbed rotten eggs and tomatoes and tore up a Danish flag. No one was hurt.
The drawings have touched off international fury as well as a debate on the clash between freedom of speech and respect for religion.
[...]
French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy condemned the protests.
"I am totally shocked and find it unacceptable that -- because there have been caricatures in the West -- extremists can burn flags or take fundamentalist or extremist positions which would prove the cartoonists right," he told LCI television.
Danish companies have reported sales falling in the Middle East after protests in the Arab world and calls for boycotts.
Palestinian gunmen seized and later released a German on Thursday, and a hand grenade was thrown into the compound of the French Cultural Center in the
Gaza Strip.
[...]
MEDIA FREEDOM
European newspapers said the publication of the cartoons was an expression of media freedom.
"Liberation defends the freedom of expression," French daily Liberation said in a headline introducing two of the cartoons, one of which depicted an imam telling suicide bombers to stop because Heaven had run out of virgins with which to reward them.
Belgian newspaper De Standaard reproduced the pictures along with letters from readers in favor of publication.
"Two values are in conflict here. One is respect for religion and the other is freedom of speech," Editor-in-Chief Peter Vandermeersch told Reuters.
In Italy, at least two papers published the cartoons on their front pages on Friday.
Bulgarian daily Novinar also reprinted them and Spain\'s El Pais reprinted a drawing that had appeared in France\'s Le Monde newspaper portraying the head of the prophet, formed by lines which read "I must not draw Mohammad."
The Sun tabloid, Britain\'s biggest-selling daily, reprinted the front pages of French daily France Soir and the Danish paper but obscured images of Mohammad with red boxes marked
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This is getting trivial. Go back to humping camels you stupid fuckers. :D
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Launch the longships, this shit has got to end. :D ;)
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I hope the stars re-align so that it looks like one of those caricatures.
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i don\'t know what to make of this....i mean when you\'re dealing with things of this nature,..you have to be careful of who you offend. i haven\'t seen the comic,..but i just saw a quick report about it on tv. I DO think they are overreacting tho..s**t all religions get picked on from time to time...but i guess in this instance the comic was really bad in taste, and if that is the case..i can understand them being upset, but not to the point to where they are yellin jihad and such...:rolleyes:
they need to redirect some of that energy to some of those fanatics that are delivering suicide bombers to it\'s own people....yea some of those terrorists like to be called freedom fighters, but let\'s be real here..some of them don\'t want peace and only want to cause death and destruction as long as they can implement it....
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Longships, stars realigning - funny shit.
Now the US State Department has deemed the comic "offensive" - good grief. Political correctness has to end, but I would bet if we didn\'t have troops in Iraq the government would have taken a different stance.
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Hehe, I have noticed that people have started adding Danish and EU flags to their avatars on different forums to show support. :) I read that the Swedish-Danish company Arla (dairy provider) is losing about 10 million SEK ($1.3 million) per day because of the boycott, they had to lay off 200 people in Denmark and 800 people in Saudi-Arabia.
Today the Danish and Norwegian embassy’s in Syria was attacked and burned, the Swedish and Chilean embassy’s were also burned down (they were housed in the same building as the Danish).
These people cant be thinking clearly. They aren’t making the situation for their Muslim brothers in Europe any easier. Expect a rise in anti-islamistic crimes and a less tolerant view towards Islam in the general public in some countries.
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Some or most.
When are people going to realize that freedom is fundemantally incompatible with oppression (yes, it SEEMS obvious).
Pick one. These people burning danish flags and embassies obviously have, and this will continue till the rest of the world accepts it or picks the other.
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I guess the cartoons were spot on.
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here are the cartoons:
http://forums.zgeek.com/images/thosecartoons.jpg
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oh the horror!
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/index.html
and these arent the extremists im presuming? people always say islam is like christianity but...whatever..sad group of people.
and why are they protesting on a U.S. base?
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it\'s funny how they can rip the piss out of jesus, but we can\'t rip the piss out of mohammed
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Originally posted by Cerberus
it\'s funny how they can rip the piss out of jesus, but we can\'t rip the piss out of mohammed
well from i understand, muslims do believe in jesus. And sittin back and reflecting on this as a whole...yea it\'s freedom of speech and all,...but if if any cartoon was printed in any mainstream american newspaper,..depicting muslims, african americans,..or jews in any distateful manner..s**t would hit the fan....and while some of the cartoons weren\'t that bad, you just can\'t do stuff like that.
Again i do agree they overreacted, but when it comes to any religion, to some degree you have to be sensitivitely (spel) responsible...not sayin that you have to be careful like you\'re walkin\' on eggshells, but you have to respect each religion...whatever it may be...
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read this (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/05/we_are_all_danes_now/)
This article is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it really illustrates just how far out there the reaction to these cartoons has been. Frankly, you can\'t hope/expect the whole world to follow your religeous beliefs and you can\'t possibly hope to censor billions of people.
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Originally posted by clips
well from i understand, muslims do believe in jesus.
They dont see him as the messiah though. Just a prophet. They say believinf jesus is god is polytheism.
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Originally posted by clips
well from i understand, muslims do believe in jesus. And sittin back and reflecting on this as a whole...yea it\'s freedom of speech and all,...but if if any cartoon was printed in any mainstream american newspaper,..depicting muslims, african americans,..or jews in any distateful manner..s**t would hit the fan....and while some of the cartoons weren\'t that bad, you just can\'t do stuff like that.
Again i do agree they overreacted, but when it comes to any religion, to some degree you have to be sensitivitely (spel) responsible...not sayin that you have to be careful like you\'re walkin\' on eggshells, but you have to respect each religion...whatever it may be...
Assalamu alaikum my brother! ;)
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hee hee (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L06153755.htm)
Where do the flags for burning come from? Israel.. heh heh heh. Sooooo, the profit for these little protests?
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brilliant!
i can only pray i come across something like that and get $$$. Maybe hotdogs...on sticks...
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Originally posted by FatalXception
hee hee (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L06153755.htm)
Where do the flags for burning come from? Israel.. heh heh heh. Sooooo, the profit for these little protests?
That\'s retarded.
Anyway, if anyone needs me I\'ll be out buying magnetic ribbons and tiny flags for my car.
-Dan
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Originally posted by fastson
In Bahrain, the parliament has passed a resolution calling for boycott of Danish goods, and demanding apologies from the Danish government and the Danish queen.
Taking things a weee bit to far, AYE?
Apology from the queen?
Next, deport all pigs or we will never forgive you. No more bacon for Denmark. :D [/B]
i laughed my ass off when i read that in the papers a few days back. democracy really put some retarded people in parliment!! :laughing:
about the cartoons, overreaction is an understatement. i myself find them tasteless. but damn! people have gone way overboard with their protest, they talked about boycotting danish products.. OK! (anyone care to smuggle in some danish cookies for me, samwise??), submitting an official protest to the Danes underlining ones discontent regarding the cartoons, again fine.
but with all the flag burning and rehotric, i see now that stupidity and ignorance have no boundaries.
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Damn Tyrant, long time no see! :D
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Originally posted by Samwise
Damn Tyrant, long time no see! :D
yeah its been a while huh! :P :).
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Cartoon wars
Feb 9th 2006
From The Economist print edition
Free speech should override religious sensitivities. And it is not just the property of the West
“I DISAGREE with what you say and even if you are threatened with death I will not defend very strongly your right to say it.” That, with apologies to Voltaire, seems to have been the initial pathetic response of some western governments to the republication by many European newspapers of several cartoons of Muhammad first published in a Danish newspaper in September. When the republished cartoons stirred Muslim violence across the world, Britain and America took fright. It was “unacceptable” to incite religious hatred by publishing such pictures, said America\'s State Department. Jack Straw, Britain\'s foreign secretary, called their publication unnecessary, insensitive, disrespectful and wrong.
Really? There is no question that these cartoons are offensive to many Muslims (see article). They offend against a convention in Islam that the Prophet should not be depicted. And they offend because they can be read as equating Islam with terrorism: one cartoon has Muhammad with a bomb for his headgear. It is not a good idea for newspapers to insult people\'s religious or any other beliefs just for the sake of it. But that is and should be their own decision, not a decision for governments, clerics or other self-appointed arbiters of taste and responsibility. In a free country people should be free to publish whatever they want within the limits set by law.
No country permits completely free speech. Typically, it is limited by prohibitions against libel, defamation, obscenity, judicial or parliamentary privilege and what have you. In seven European countries it is illegal to say that Hitler did not murder millions of Jews. Britain still has a pretty dormant blasphemy law (the Christian God only) on its statute books. Drawing the line requires fine judgements by both lawmakers and juries. Britain, for example, has just jailed a notorious imam, Abu Hamza of London\'s Finsbury Park mosque, for using language a jury construed as solicitation to murder (see article). Last week, however, another British jury acquitted Nick Griffin, a notorious bigot who calls Islam “vicious and wicked”, on charges of stirring racial hatred.
Drawing the line
In this newspaper\'s view, the fewer constraints that are placed on free speech the better. Limits designed to protect people (from libel and murder, for example) are easier to justify than those that aim in some way to control thinking (such as laws on blasphemy, obscenity and Holocaust-denial). Denying the Holocaust should certainly not be outlawed: far better to let those who deny well-documented facts expose themselves to ridicule than pose as martyrs. But the Muhammad cartoons were lawful in all the European countries where they were published. And when western newspapers lawfully publish words or pictures that cause offence—be they ever so unnecessary, insensitive or disrespectful—western governments should think very carefully before denouncing them.
Freedom of expression, including the freedom to poke fun at religion, is not just a hard-won human right but the defining freedom of liberal societies. When such a freedom comes under threat of violence, the job of governments should be to defend it without reservation. To their credit, many politicians in continental Europe have done just that. France\'s interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, said rather magnificently that he preferred “an excess of caricature to an excess of censorship”—though President Jacques Chirac later spoiled the effect by condemning the cartoons as a “manifest provocation”.
Shouldn\'t the right to free speech be tempered by a sense of responsibility? Of course. Most people do not go about insulting their fellows just because they have a right to. The media ought to show special sensitivity when the things they say might stir up hatred or hurt the feelings of vulnerable minorities. But sensitivity cannot always ordain silence. Protecting free expression will often require hurting the feelings of individuals or groups, even if this damages social harmony. The Muhammad cartoons may be such a case.
In Britain and America, few newspapers feel that their freedoms are at risk. But on the European mainland, some of the papers that published the cartoons say they did so precisely because their right to publish was being called into question. In the Netherlands two years ago a film maker was murdered for daring to criticise Islam. Danish journalists have received death threats. In a climate in which political correctness has morphed into fear of physical attack, showing solidarity may well be the responsible thing for a free press to do. And the decision, of course, must lie with the press, not governments.
It\'s good to talk
It is no coincidence that the feeblest response to the outpouring of Muslim rage has come from Britain and America. Having sent their armies rampaging into the Muslim heartland, planting their flags in Afghanistan and Iraq and putting Saddam Hussein on trial, George Bush and Tony Blair have some making up to do with Muslims. Long before making a drama out of the Danish cartoons, a great many Muslims had come to equate the war on terrorism with a war against Islam. This is an equation Osama bin Laden and other enemies of the West would like very much to encourage and exploit. In circumstances in which embassies are being torched, isn\'t denouncing the cartoons the least the West can do to show its respect for Islam, and to stave off a much-feared clash of civilisations?
No. There are many things western countries could usefully say and do to ease relations with Islam, but shutting up their own newspapers is not one of them. People who feel that they are not free to give voice to their worries about terrorism, globalisation or the encroachment of new cultures or religions will not love their neighbours any better. If anything, the opposite is the case: people need to let off steam. And freedom of expression, remember, is not just a pillar of western democracy, as sacred in its own way as Muhammad is to pious Muslims. It is also a freedom that millions of Muslims have come to enjoy or to aspire to themselves. Ultimately, spreading and strengthening it may be one of the best hopes for avoiding the incomprehension that can lead civilisations into conflict.
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Radical muslims can claim a victory (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004982.htm)
[summary]
Comedy Central censored the part of the episode in which Mohammed (a recurring character) entered on screen and said jihad! jihad!. They didn\'t censor, however, the close of the episode, Jesus deficating on the POTUS.
[/summary]
On the one hand, the cartoons got more press than they ever would otherwise, but lets look at what they managed to do to the global climate. A lot of media groups won\'t publish images of Mohammed now, which, if you look at it from the \'before\' and \'current\' view, is an improvement for them, since before they were all willing to stand up for their freedom of expression. Even if they didn\'t shut everyone up, they\'ve got people examining every single mention of Mohammed. *shudder*
Oh yeah... necropost!
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg38.imageshack.us%2Fimg38%2F9287%2FNecropost.gif&hash=5a688d1947e7cbce0e7fb7b63cf37deffc218aa5)
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Why do you people judge them based on your own standards? If they judge you based on their own standards you wont like it.
We have culture differences and some things that arent as important for us they are for them.
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It\'s ok to bash other religions, but if their religion gets bashed they\'re up in arms, flipping out, burning flags...blah blah blah. :rolleyes: This censorship thing is ridiculous.
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I already answered to that
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No you didn\'t.
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Why do you people judge them based on your own standards? If they judge you based on their own standards you wont like it.
We have culture differences and some things that arent as important for us they are for them.
.
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You didn\'t need to quote yourself. You didn\'t prove anything with that. The bolding of words and sentences for emphasis didn\'t help you either.
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Yes I did prove a lot. You just dont want to accept it
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Accept what? Other religions are made fun of all the time and people get very offended...yet the media still continues to let these kinds of things out. Now we have to censor bashing of THEIR religion just because it upsets them? I\'m sorry, but they shouldn\'t get special privileges because they chose to react in a ridiculous way. You have no point.
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Hello, this was media made by our (as you would say) media for our consumption. They should not have to worry about offending people when they want to make a comedic statement. The more I hear about this, the more that one cartoon with the censorship bit (page 1 #10, I think it is or #7) looks to be true.
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Hello, this was media made by our (as you would say) media for our consumption. They should not have to worry about offending people when they want to make a comedic statement.
The point is...it\'s going to be offensive regardless...but this doesn\'t mean anyone should get special treatment because they found it offensive. There are always going to be comics like this. They should learn to deal with it instead of burning flags, among other lame things. And it\'s so dumb that they burned the country\'s flag. I\'m sorry, but the entire country isn\'t to blame. It was the work of comic artists.
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Burning flags if we\'re lucky. That\'s the problem, they actually riot over feedom of expression in nations far from their own.
I\'ve said it before and I\'ll say it again. Freedom is not compatible with cencorship. It\'s almost a direct definition of opposites, but people seem to think that they can keep their freedom if they\'re \'voluntarily\' censoring things (but it really isn\'t voluntary... is it).
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Burning flags if we\'re lucky. That\'s the problem, they actually riot over feedom of expression in nations far from their own.
I\'ve said it before and I\'ll say it again. Freedom is not compatible with cencorship. It\'s almost a direct definition of opposites, but people seem to think that they can keep their freedom if they\'re \'voluntarily\' censoring things (but it really isn\'t voluntary... is it).
Yeah...just...bah! -_- I agree. It\'s nonsense.
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That\'s pretty funny that after all that, Comedy Central didn\'t show the image of Mohammed. I did think it was a gag by the creators so I kinda laughed when I saw it but now it kinda makes me mad. The entire episode, you knew that htey were gonna show an image of Mohammed and I knew it would be funny but now that I know it was actually censored, it truely shows what Parker and Stone were saying in their episode.