PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: hyper on February 12, 2006, 08:25:41 PM
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A friend of mine convinced me to the positive. If you could somehow find out from pre-natal analysis that your child is gay (theoretically from detecting hormonal imbalances), would you want the mother to take a pill to "cure" his homosexuality? One must wonder what benefits there are in being gay in our society. Wouldn\'t any respectable parent want his offspring to lead a normal life? A counterargument to that would be: instead of trying to eliminate homosexuals, we should try to change society so that it does not discriminate against them. That\'s all good, but I don\'t want my child to lead an "abnormal" life. The same can be said for children diagnosed with mental or physical deformities while they are still in the mother\'s womb. Are they better off being "eliminated," since their lives are guaranteed to be fraught with difficulties? Thoughts?
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Man. You are trying hard tonight.
Treating homoseuality like it\'s a disease and needs a cure and insinuating they lead an abnormal life is just silly.
Why don\'t we just abort all the gay fetuses?
If you see a limp wrist in the sonogram, suck it out.
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I just got done with midterms and I\'m bored. Work with me.
You still haven\'t answered my question though. What benefits does homosexuality bring? It does not make sense biologically - you can\'t have children. Nor does it make sense culturally - your open the door to needless harrassment and stigma. I\'m not suggesting we eliminate babies who are diagnosed to be gay. I\'m saying give them a pill to straighten out their hormomal imbalances (as research would point out) and... make them straight. From a biological and cultural standpoint, it makes perfect sense.
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If my child was gay, personally I probably wouldn\'t care. I think "treating" it like its a disease is dumb. Its just as normal as heterosexuality and who are we to say its abnormal.
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Not everyone is as open as you, though. There are plenty of gay-bashers in this country. Why expose your children to that? Additionally, it will be enormously difficult for them to have children. Even if they manage to adopt one, what are the chances of that child, raised by gay parents, having a normal life?
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Hell, we could start aborting fetuses with any abnormal physical development too. Once we can test for pre-natal IQ, we could even weed out the stupid ones.
Utopia here we come.
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hyper, do you visit a down syndrome forum, by chance?
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Originally posted by hyper
I just got done with midterms and I\'m bored. Work with me.
You still haven\'t answered my question though. What benefits does homosexuality bring?
You double your wardrobe.
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I\'ll give you one point that\'ll end this debate here and now. Without homosexuality, psx2central wouldn\'t exist.
HA!
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This is a good idea.
Then we could make pills that screw with other genes. And all our kids could be white, blond haired, blue-eyed, heterosexual, and fair-skinned.
Awesome.
-Dan
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that would be ideal
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sexual preference is a choice
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WRONG AGAIN, FAGGOT!
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Originally posted by hyper
Not everyone is as open as you, though. There are plenty of gay-bashers in this country. Why expose your children to that?
Fuck those people. Seriously. I dont\' know some of my friends are gay unless they\'ve told me. Didnt\' make me not be friends with them. But like racism, it will be much more tolerated by the time I have kids and they reach adolescence. I mean look at the trends today. Its getting much more accepted than it was. Yes, there will still be religious fanatics and crap that are intolerable.
Additionally, it will be enormously difficult for them to have children.
Heh, no shit?
Even if they manage to adopt one, what are the chances of that child, raised by gay parents, having a normal life?
A lot higher than you think.
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Originally posted by square_marker
sexual preference is a choice
Originally posted by CHIZZY
WRONG AGAIN, FAGGOT!
There is some slight truth to that, actually. Some people do choose that lifestyle but the very vast majority are born into it. there are people who experiment and like it. However, I guess you can argue that they were born into it.
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the only thing they choose is how flamboyant to be.
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What are you talking about?
They choose to be gay. Its a choice they make. I don\'t see anyone or anything forcing them to be homosexual.
All this stuff about them \'being born gay\' or \'its in their genes\' is absolute nonsense.
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Originally posted by (e)
What are you talking about?
They choose to be gay. Its a choice they make. I don\'t see anyone or anything forcing them to be homosexual.
All this stuff about them \'being born gay\' or \'its in their genes\' is absolute nonsense.
who do i believe..scientists....or you....mmmmm
the earth is flat.
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show me proof that homosexuality is directly linked to genetics
then maybe ill think about changing my mind
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my dungeon with the schematics is currently under construction.
About 5 seconds on google is a nice .edu site http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f97/projects97/Newman.html
search "homosexuality linked to genetics"..has a few billion more. If you want more proof, go to a scientist er something.
and for the contrary, all they have are .org sites. And religious groups can get .org places and we all know their opinion..except liberal society made them accept homosexuality.
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Isn\'t hormones a big part of it too?
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Just want to throw my 2 cents in.
A. Homosexuality is normal only in a certain context. It\'s "normal" because it happens with a relatively high level of frequency. Otherwise it\'s a counterproductive anamoly in the fabric of nature. I feel it\'s not something to be cherished, but accepted as a reality. Until proven otherwise I\'d like to think of it as a epidemic, as well. Not so much a disease.
In 50 years, come back here and tell me that I was wrong when you see that the US\' gay population hasn\'t risen at least 5 percent. I think it\'s possible that a sizeable portion of gay people were not born gay, and I think that number will increase as we continue to accept homosexuality as an equal to heterosexuality. There is no sex in homosexuality, FFS!
Crucify me for my views if you will, guys. Gays fight for this cause because if they don\'t, their culture is lost. Their lives, their confusion would not be justified if they lost. It\'s like tearing goths away from their Hot Topic. Most gay sympathizers are probably in the same camp as the "the terrorists didn\'t cause 9/11, we caused 9/11" group. Yeah.
B. Of course I\'d allow the pill. However, if my child eventually chose a gay lifestyle I think I\'d be okay with him/her. I\'d just hate myself.
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Originally posted by Blade
In 50 years, come back here and tell me that I was wrong when you see that the US\' gay population hasn\'t risen at least 5 percent. I think it\'s possible that a sizeable portion of gay people were not born gay, and I think that number will increase as we continue to accept homosexuality as an equal to heterosexuality. There is no sex in homosexuality, FFS!
maybe the increase (due to acceptance) led to more people being openly gay. Before maybe people were just "never married" or they married while being gay (it happens).
but ur right about it just being a reality we have to accept. As to being counterproductive, it obviously is..but look at it this way..people bitch we\'re over-populated, so why wish gay people were straight so they could reproduce? and they could help the adoption system..not that i would ever want to be raised by gay parents,lol..but if you were brought up with it you\'d probably accept it.
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Study 1
While this study did not come up with any hard core facts about the genetics of homosexuality, it showed that a connection very well could exist.
Study 2
Keep in mind though, that this is just a region of the X chromosome, not a specific gene. Although researchers are hopeful, a single gene has not yet been identified (7). Hamer\'s study also acknowledges the fact that while it does suggest that there is a gene that influences homosexuality, it has not yet been determined how greatly the gene influences whether or not a person will be homosexual
The results that Hamer\'s study did find though, cannot yet be accepted as absolute truth. Another study took place in 1993 by Macke et al. This study examined the same gene locus as the Hamer study, but found that it had no influence on homosexuality (8). As you can see, the results on this topic are still extremely varied and reasonably new, so it is difficult to come to any lasting conclusion.
I did not realize what a new and controversial issue the genetics of homosexuality was. From tid-bits of news that I had picked up along the way, I thought that scientists had located, without a doubt, a gene that plays a role in influencing sexual orientation. From the research that I have discussed above, that is obviously not the case. I am eager to follow this subject more in the future and see what biology will discover next.
kind of unconclusive, but interesting read none the less.
even if their was this gene which influenced a person to become homosexual - you must realise that it comes down to their final choice.
I have nothing against homosexuals, i just think its a lifestyle choice.
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Originally posted by mm
hyper, do you visit a down syndrome forum, by chance?
Fuck, that was funny lol
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Originally posted by (e)
I have nothing against homosexuals, i just think its a lifestyle choice. [/B]
I agree with you 100% here.
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If a girl gets drunk and kisses a girl for fun, that\'s a lifestyle choice.
If you\'re a man who is attracted to another man and falls in love - it\'s genetic.
Just like you don\'t choose to be attracted to your girlfriend/wife.
Common sense rules.
-Dan
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Originally posted by mm
hyper, do you visit a down syndrome forum, by chance?
:rolleyes:
Being constructive is apparently beyond your scope.
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Originally posted by Blade
Just want to throw my 2 cents in.
A. Homosexuality is normal only in a certain context. It\'s "normal" because it happens with a relatively high level of frequency. Otherwise it\'s a counterproductive anamoly in the fabric of nature. I feel it\'s not something to be cherished, but accepted as a reality. Until proven otherwise I\'d like to think of it as a epidemic, as well. Not so much a disease.
In 50 years, come back here and tell me that I was wrong when you see that the US\' gay population hasn\'t risen at least 5 percent. I think it\'s possible that a sizeable portion of gay people were not born gay, and I think that number will increase as we continue to accept homosexuality as an equal to heterosexuality. There is no sex in homosexuality, FFS!
Crucify me for my views if you will, guys. Gays fight for this cause because if they don\'t, their culture is lost. Their lives, their confusion would not be justified if they lost. It\'s like tearing goths away from their Hot Topic. Most gay sympathizers are probably in the same camp as the "the terrorists didn\'t cause 9/11, we caused 9/11" group. Yeah.
B. Of course I\'d allow the pill. However, if my child eventually chose a gay lifestyle I think I\'d be okay with him/her. I\'d just hate myself.
You have a knack for getting your point across. I get convoluted at times. Anyway, thanks for putting it so well.
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Originally posted by hyper
You have a knack for getting your point across. I get convoluted at times. Anyway, thanks for putting it so well.
no
Originally posted by Eiksirf
If a girl gets drunk and kisses a girl for fun, that\'s a lifestyle choice.
If you\'re a man who is attracted to another man and falls in love - it\'s genetic.
Just like you don\'t choose to be attracted to your girlfriend/wife.
Common sense rules.
-Dan
THAT is putting it well :D...short, to the point, RIGHT, and girls kissing talk
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Just like you don\'t choose to be attracted to your girlfriend/wife.
And thats genetic?
Your attracted to them because you choose to be so. You don\'t have a genetic disposition for their attraction.
C\'mon people - this world must be getting dumber by the minute.
If a girl gets drunk and kisses a girl for fun, that\'s a lifestyle choice.
i would hardly call a drunk decision a \'life style choice\'. maybe a mistake, or a drunken mistake... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by (e)
And thats genetic?
Your attracted to them because you choose to be so. You don\'t have a genetic disposition for their attraction.
C\'mon people - this world must be getting dumber by the minute.
Not going to bother countering that because ill probably just be saying the same thing.
But we\'re dumber for believing life is more complex than a choice? please..theres so much in this world we dont understand and to say believing science (science can mostly only have theories with some evidence..not actual objective truths) and not just going to the easiest answer is dumb..then were done talking.
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Originally posted by (e)
And thats genetic?
Your attracted to them because you choose to be so. You don\'t have a genetic disposition for their attraction.
C\'mon people - this world must be getting dumber by the minute.
50% of our personality is genetic. We don\'t just choose to be attracted someone. Its a matter of our personality choosing attributes that best suits our needs in a relationship. Stop insulting people when you don\'t know what you are talking about.
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you know, the reason people are attracted to other people is because they want to fuck them. sure you might say: ooh, she\'s just so smart, I love exchanging high minded thoughts and ideas, blah blah. but really, you just want to fuck.
don\'t feel bad though; it\'s not because you\'re a dirty pervert. it\'s because that\'s how we evolved. fucking is good for the species. and because of this, we evolved to derive pleasure from fucking. sometimes people are born slightly differently and will want to fuck people of the same sex. it doesn\'t serve the species from a reproductive point of view, but for humans, that doesn\'t really matter does it.
how many times did I just say fuck?
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Originally posted by Avatarr
you know, the reason people are attracted to other people is because they want to fuck them. sure you might say: ooh, she\'s just so smart, I love exchanging high minded thoughts and ideas, blah blah. but really, you just want to fuck.
how many times did I just say fuck?
Thats why im glad im not a woman..would be pretty intimidating to have a bunch of people around you that want to fuck me. unless i was fat..
and 6...
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I have nothing against homosexuals, i just think its a lifestyle choice.
Pretty much. I like to keep an open mind in most debates, and until proven one way or another my mind will not conform 100% to a singular POV. In this everlasting debate, I pick the side that an ignoramus (and I\'ve met a few) would call "homophobic." While there may very well be people "born" gay (which I don\'t really believe but could be true) I think it\'s mostly behavioral.
Shall I provide a little perspective?
This may be like comparing apples and oranges, but let me tell you about a woman I know named Teresa. I met her about 18 months ago at a social event and immediately found myself attracted to her. Before long, I was obsessed... driven not only by sheer lust but a desire for strong friendship. She was single, too.
The catch was that she was 33 (I was 20 at the time) so to be blunt it didn\'t work out. Over time I pondered why I liked her so much, as she wasn\'t the most attractive woman... nor the smartest, nor the most athletic.
I came from work one day and looked at my mother sitting on a recliner in the living room. She has Teresa\'s haircut, Teresa\'s demeanor, even Teresa\'s clothing. It didn\'t take long for me to realize that perhaps (as millions of men and women have discovered over millennia) that I was conditioned over my lifetime to seek a woman similar to my mom.
Laugh at me if you will; it was a behavioral instinct.
I\'d be horrified if I were a woman too, I think. Knowing what I know about men. :)
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Originally posted by (e)
Your attracted to them because you choose to be so. You don\'t have a genetic disposition for their attraction.
Eeny meeny miney mo... I\'ve decided I\'m attracted to you!
*what do we have for her, Johnny?*
If it\'s a choice, take a second to look around and choose to be attracted to each of the women around you. Even that ugly, bitchy chick you know.
Since homosexuality is a choice, also look at some guy you work with and decide to be attracted to him. Mmm, all of a sudden you want the cock don\'t you?
(I\'m still right.)
-Dan
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Originally posted by Blade
Pretty much. I like to keep an open mind in most debates, and until proven one way or another my mind will not conform 100% to a singular POV. In this everlasting debate, I pick the side that an ignoramus (and I\'ve met a few) would call "homophobic." While there may very well be people "born" gay (which I don\'t really believe but could be true) I think it\'s mostly behavioral.
Shall I provide a little perspective?
This may be like comparing apples and oranges, but let me tell you about a woman I know named Teresa. I met her about 18 months ago at a social event and immediately found myself attracted to her. Before long, I was obsessed... driven not only by sheer lust but a desire for strong friendship. She was single, too.
The catch was that she was 33 (I was 20 at the time) so to be blunt it didn\'t work out. Over time I pondered why I liked her so much, as she wasn\'t the most attractive woman... nor the smartest, nor the most athletic.
I came from work one day and looked at my mother sitting on a recliner in the living room. She has Teresa\'s haircut, Teresa\'s demeanor, even Teresa\'s clothing. It didn\'t take long for me to realize that perhaps (as millions of men and women have discovered over millennia) that I was conditioned over my lifetime to seek a woman similar to my mom.
Laugh at me if you will; it was a behavioral instinct.
I\'d be horrified if I were a woman too, I think. Knowing what I know about men. :)
another one falls victim to the oedipus complex....
And just in case you were wondering, there have been several documented cases of homosexuals finding attributes in their same sex parent that they seek out in their partners. Door swings both ways.
Oh and to throw another curveball into the mix. Every recorded civilaztion has recorded homosexuality in one form or another. This isn\'t something new. Its not going away. The only reason there will be an "increase" in gays is due to them being less scared of coming out of the closet. Everyone that actually is homophobic (not referring to you blade) can at least be glad we don\'t live in the ancient greek life where homosexuality was common practice during wartime.
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Sammy and I are gay every night together and theres nothing wrong with that....
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Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Sammy and I are gay every night together and theres nothing wrong with that....
its not that we think its wrong. Just some people think you had a choice to be with sammy while others think you guys naturally loved the cock.
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I think it\'s a disease.
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Phil: Oedipus Complex? Could be something like that, yes.
It\'s extremely deep if so, though. Even examining pictures of my mother when she was young, it\'s hard to be attracted to her in any way. She\'s not my type, either. I just noticed some similarities between her and my friend Teresa that sort of shocked me.
Funny how that subconscious works, eh?
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I\'m taking an interesting psych class this quarter that has touched upon the subject a little. Next quarter I\'ll be taking human sexuality which is kind of a rites of passage here at UC. The human mind is a crazy thing. But yeah, basically what you said is a classic case of the oedipus complex. All you need now is a resentment towards your father.
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(I\'m still right.)
-Dan
a premature and immature statement.
you\'ve proven nothing.
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Nor have you.
Common sense on the other hand.
A boy is twelve years old, he finds he is attracted to other boys, even though he has never experienced any sexual contact with a male or female. Why would he? One can only think it is genetic. Yes, some people make a choice to be gay, to the fact that as a culture, we embrace it more and more, but if you look back in time, when gay people was killed on sight, I find it hard to believe anyone would of chose that lifestyle. Common sense rules, use it.
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You can\'t choose to be gay. You can only choose to suppress or explore your homosexual feelings.
Just ask the people here, heh.
-Dan
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i\'ve always leaned towards being gay a choice, not something you are born with. My wife and I have a gay friend, we\'ve known him since before he "came out" or whatever you call it. His father died when he was 8 years old. He only gets with older men... he\'s a special circumstance but it\'s easy to see how he\'s trying to fill that void.
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Originally posted by JBean
it\'s easy to see how he\'s trying to fill that void.
j/k ;]
-Dan
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JBean: Frankly a good point and +1 to my behavioral theory.
Similar to the situation regarding my mother\'s childhood friend Kevin. (a homosexual)
He grew up in a family consisting of a mother and 4 sisters.
LiC: I don\'t think it\'s so cut-and-dry as that. A boy hits puberty, finds himself attracted to men, and thus he must have been born a homosexual? I still think it\'s all in a person\'s head, culminating from events in their childhood and certain circumstances.
The argument that should spawn out of this is how to deal with it (i.e. should we legalize gay marriage, etc) rather than whether it\'s a birth defect or not.
It does pain me when I consider what I\'ve heard from homosexuals in the past. Such as their openness to incredible age-gaps (a recent article in Boston Metro by a gay intellectual cites the beauty of "40-something M.D.\'s living with 18-year-old boys") ...their subtle desperation, and the way that a lot of ugly men/women turn to homosexuality for love.
I\'m really tired of this topic, so this\'ll be my last post.
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He grew up in a family consisting of a mother and 4 sisters.
LiC: I don\'t think it\'s so cut-and-dry as that. A boy hits puberty, finds himself attracted to men, and thus he must have been born a homosexual? I still think it\'s all in a person\'s head, culminating from events in their childhood and certain circumstances.
The argument that should spawn out of this is how to deal with it (i.e. should we legalize gay marriage, etc) rather than whether it\'s a birth defect or not.
And that is possible, just how some straight women or men, look for an older partner, due to childhood problems with their parents. However, that still means that while they was not born with it, it\'s not exactly something that I *Control* of. It\'s part of their makeup, and while that may not be a genetic makeup, it\'s still embedded at a young age, making it a social makeup, so to speak.
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Originally posted by (e)
a premature and immature statement.
you\'ve proven nothing.
Do you bother to read anything or do you just post meaningless drivel on impulse.
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it\'s easy to see how he\'s trying to fill that void.
it\'s easy to see how he\'s trying to fill his rectum!
hahaha
/me is so funny.
:p
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Originally posted by Avatarr
it\'s easy to see how he\'s trying to fill his rectum!
hahaha
/me is so funny.
:p
eik\'s version was better, :D
i lol\'d.....
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Originally posted by Phil
Do you bother to read anything or do you just post meaningless drivel on impulse.
:rolleyes:
once again, what has he proven?
Nor have you.
your just trying to piss me off
:rolleyes:
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sexual preference is a choice
Not enough evidence to even make a comment like that either way...
I\'m sure some choose to be gay (or bi), but the genetic/choice factor of this isn\'t conclusive.
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what does everyone think about gay marriage?
:bj:
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I\'m a bit on the conservative side of gay marriage. I don\'t think it should be "marriage" since I think its more for a man and woman but I am definitely for civil unions to which they get the same benefits as married couples. I really do think they should be allowed to adopt though.
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Originally posted by Titan
I\'m a bit on the conservative side of gay marriage. I don\'t think it should be "marriage" since I think its more for a man and woman but I am definitely for civil unions to which they get the same benefits as married couples. I really do think they should be allowed to adopt though.
BUTT buddies!
personally..i dont really care. Not like we (straight people) have kept the "sanctity" in marriage that everyones bitching about.
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Originally posted by Viper_Fujax
BUTT buddies!
personally..i dont really care. Not like we (straight people) have kept the "sanctity" in marriage that everyones bitching about.
True. Like if they do get married, alright. I can live with it. I don\'t agree with it but I\'m not gonna go for either side and protest and stuff. If it happens it happens. I just take the more conservative view.
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Originally posted by Titan
I\'m a bit on the conservative side of gay marriage. I don\'t think it should be "marriage" since I think its more for a man and woman but I am definitely for civil unions to which they get the same benefits as married couples. I really do think they should be allowed to adopt though.
I buy that.
As long as they can have civil union weddings. They would be fabulous.
-Dan
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I think it\'s funny that most of the people posting in this thread would have a better shot at getting laid if they went gay, as they\'re not exactly knocking \'em down left & right... ;)
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We all have different beliefs. So I am all for the pill. I can\'t stand the site of two men together. And even the site of two females annoys me now.
I would be all for the pill
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Originally posted by CHIZZY
I think it\'s funny that most of the people posting in this thread would have a better shot at getting laid if they went gay, as they\'re not exactly knocking \'em down left & right... ;)
thats how homosexuals, pedophiles, and beastiality freaks come to be - they see the ladies arent attracted to them so they go after something they can fuck 1)males 2)children 3)animals.