PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: guar on March 22, 2006, 02:40:48 PM
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Just thought I would throw this out there:
Will PlayStation 3 Outsell Xbox 360? Sumner Lemon, IDG News Service
Wed Mar 22, 9:00 AM ET
Last week\'s announcement that Sony Computer Entertainment will delay the introduction of its PlayStation 3 game console was seen by many as a chance for Microsoft to consolidate its early lead in the next-generation console market. However, the delay of the PlayStation 3 is unlikely to hurt Sony in the long run, according to analyst firm In-Stat.
"Sony will continue its domination of the video [game] console market through 2010," In-Stat said.
The PlayStation 3 will account for slightly more than 50 percent of all next-generation console sales through 2010, extending Sony\'s domination of the game console market, In-Stat said.
Microsoft will take 28.6 percent of sales, while Nintendo\'s Revolution console will have a market share of 21.2 percent, it said.
Head Start
While the relatively early launch of the Xbox 360 will not threaten sales of the PlayStation 3, Microsoft\'s head start will give it an edge over Nintendo, In-Stat said.
Other factors that will boost Xbox 360 over the Revolution are its strong market position in North America and appeal to older gamers, it said.
Between now and 2010, 2006 is expected to be the slowest year for console sales, In-Stat said. Sales this year are expected to be around 25 million units. This figure will rise to about 39 million next year and hit 42 million the year after, In-Stat said.
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will be like it always is:
PS3>>>>Xbox>>Revolution
IF the ps3 sticks to their word and releases it in november, they will demolish the crap out of the other sales. If they dont, theyll take a pretty big hit but probably still sell the best by a lot
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If MS can\'t increase Xbox 360 production, the Revolution might outsell it. Nevermind the PS3.
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Well, well. I\'m pretty sure everyone in touch with the industry could tell you thats the way it\'s going to go down.
I\'m really looking forward to the BLU-Ray playback. Even though I do watch HD movies all the time on the projector from HD channels at the moment, I can\'t wait to show off blu-ray movies to friends...It will be like when DVD first came out, and I\'ll have the bragging rights of being part of the 1% of people who have it. ...funny how people use to brag about having a DVD player lol
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will be like it always is:
PS3>>>>Xbox>>Revolution
IF the ps3 sticks to their word and releases it in november, they will demolish the crap out of the other sales. If they dont, theyll take a pretty big hit but probably still sell the best by a lot
I hope its Revolution>XBOX360 because Nintendo is one of those old classic companies facing unfair competition and Nintendo must not end up like Sega
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I hope its Revolution>XBOX360 because Nintendo is one of those old classic companies facing unfair competition and Nintendo must not end up like Sega
I was thinking this too. I can\'t imagine games without a Nintendo console and a Mario game. Thats all I\'ve ever known.
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i\'d like to see 360 in last place, and microsoft leave the markey
primarily because thier !!!!!!!!!! fans are the fucking worst.
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I was thinking this too. I can\'t imagine games without a Nintendo console and a Mario game. Thats all I\'ve ever known.
I\'m sure if Nintendo did stop making consoles, we will still see Mario games....on Xbox or PlayStation. I don\'t want to see that though. It won\'t be the same :(
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I\'m sure if Nintendo did stop making consoles, we will still see Mario games....on Xbox or PlayStation. I don\'t want to see that though. It won\'t be the same :(
Well it means you won\'t have to pay an extra $200 to play classic remakes ;)
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i dont think nintendo will go out of business. They did fine with the gamecube..id expect them to do the same. Always be in third, not making as much money as sony and M$ but still making enough.
But i havent owned a nintendo console since super nes.
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even in 3rd place last generation, nintendo was the most profitable
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PS3 > XBOX360
But I think Revoultion will come out from nowhere and kill everything else. I didn\'t expect the DS to do as well as it has. But now, I think Nintendo\'s strategy of trying to rope nubs is going to make them win. Case in point, I was with one such nub when I went to go buy some leds for my pacer. On the way we passed a 360 kiosk and she was like "it doesn\'t look any different to Xbox". They really don\'t care about sub surface scattering, paralax texturing or linear geometric bumpmapping or whatever. It\'s a safe wager that they\'ll care more about waving a remote control around so little yoshi can jump and shit.
PS3 may > Xbox360, but Revolution will > all.
Revolution > PS3 > Xbox360
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have we even heard anything about the evolution? besides the gay idea for the controller?
everyone on here is saying the revolution is going to kick ass..i think u just want to be the one to say "I CALLED IT" if they manage to put a system better than the ps3 out.
like mm pointed out..they wont sell as well, but because theyre cheaper and probably costs nintendo less to make, theyll get their money.
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Has nothing to do with being able to say that for me. The only console I\'m buying at launch is going to be the revolution. I may just be a Nintendo fanboy at heart still, but that\'s how it is. It\'s the only one I\'m excited about.
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I predict the Phantom will slowly crawl it\'s way to #1 and stay there for several years. PS3 will fall to last with Nintendo creeping up. Xbox gets hot coffee mod and gets to be #1.
Who wants stock advice?
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The cool thing about Revolution is the competition is pricing themselves way too high. Besides people like some of us, how many kids will plunk down a grand to have both PS3 and X360?
But I could see any body going out for Christmas next year and picking up a Revolution for someone. It\'s cheap enough that if Nintendo makes it compelling enough, I could see a ton of PS3 and 360 owners picking it up as well.
Nevermind guys like shockwaves who grabbed it in the first place.
Nintendo intends to price itself in a pretty strategic way. I could see launch at $250 to make some cash, then price drop mid or late \'07 to get a huge holiday season from casual gamers.
They just need some software to back it up, and they might be starting with some quirky Zelda stuff from GameCube and who knows what else for Revolution-only.
-Dan
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i\'d like to see 360 in last place, and microsoft leave the markey
primarily because thier !!!!!!!!!! fans are the fucking worst.
What about more choices? I just don\'t get this kind of thinking. Then again I really don\'t understand the hatred for Walmart but it seems similar to me.
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I see it not as more choices, but as fewer choices. If Microsoft dropped out, all the microsoft exclusive franchises would likely find their way onto other consoles. That just means more choices for what many of us can afford. I know myself, I can\'t afford to spend $400+ for both a 360 and a PS3. Besides, how different are most of these consoles really anyway (with the Revolution obviously about to be the exception), outside of which games happen to be on which consoles?
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It\'s about competition. More competition means better consoles and better games. Fortunately we don\'t decide how many choices we have by looking at how much one person can afford.
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It\'s about competition. More competition means better consoles and better games.
still relying on that old adage?
omg, if nintendo and microsoft didn\'t exist, sony would charge 300$ for teh games!
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omg, if nintendo and microsoft didn\'t exist, sony would charge 300$ for teh games!
I don\'t think so.
I do find it hard to believe that you can\'t see how better quality comes from competition. Well, most of the time.
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But that would be true of two competing consoles as much as of three. I saw no problems when it was just Nintendo and Sega as the major consoles. If anything, the prices have been going up :p.
And as for more competition making better games, there would still be just as much competition among games. The number of consoles out there doesn\'t affect the competition between all the different developers.
I just don\'t see any evidence in this market of how three consoles is so much better than two. Yes, I know that the market isn\'t driven by what one person can afford, but that doesn\'t change the fact that it is what I would rather see.
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But that would be true of two competing consoles as much as of three. I saw no problems when it was just Nintendo and Sega as the major consoles. If anything, the prices have been going up :p.
And as for more competition making better games, there would still be just as much competition among games. The number of consoles out there doesn\'t affect the competition between all the different developers.
I just don\'t see any evidence in this market of how three consoles is so much better than two. Yes, I know that the market isn\'t driven by what one person can afford, but that doesn\'t change the fact that it is what I would rather see.
I prefer more choices. I love new consoles. I don\'t care what the nameplate reads. Give me choices and let the next company try to outdo the rest.
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they have brought virtually nothing to the table but an ignorant fanbase
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they have brought virtually nothing to the table but an ignorant fanbase
That\'s just silly. What about Live? They seem to being doing a good job with the on line stuff.
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online gaming?
nope that wasn\'t done before
what 1st party games did they bring, again?
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Let\'s face it, mm, you have a hatred for MS. It\'s just the in thing to do. Kind of like hating Wally World.
If you can\'t see having more choices and competition being a good thing then we have a major difference of opinion.
By the way, isn\'t Sony taking a long hard look at how MS is running their Live?
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I\'m not MS\' biggest fan, but I\'ll say this... they\'re better than Sony.
And, Live Arcade is a testament to this. Yes, in the PC realm we already had all this shit. Pretend that PC\'s don\'t exist.
MS beat Nintendo to the punch (Revolution\'s Virtual Console) and provided new and very cheap games in addition (the phenomenon known as Geometry Wars springs to mind) while maintaining the original Xbox Live. Which, was already far and away the best service.
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Ace that\'s a good point. Live has become the online standard. Wi-Fi connection doesn\'t match it at this point. Revolution looks to emulate it, and I\'m sure Sony looks to at least match it.
An aside, WalMart is actually a case of creating less competition. They are able to force other businesses out with their pricing and deals with manufacturers.
-Dan
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I understand that point about Walmart. My comment is more toward the whole we hate Walmart . . . but we not really sure why crowd. :)
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I\'m all for competition. Ideally, Sony.. MS & Nin would all get a large enough chunk to stay profitable and keep the competition fierce. If any one of the 3 get too big, then you start seeing them dictate trends in the market without any checks and balances (i.e. competiton)
Nearly my entire family shops anywhere but wal-mart. Ask me how many small stores they drove out of my hometown... :(
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How many small stores did they drive out of your hometown?
I will agree, MS has brought something to the table. Live is far and away the best console online platform. I just don\'t see the huge difference in competition between two and three consoles.
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MS brought Live and if not for that, I don\'t think ANY of the companies would be taking the online stance that they will take this next generation.
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hate microsoft?
not at all, thier !!!!!!!!!\'s irritate me
fuck an "online stance" or "platform". we don\'t need a marketplace to nickle and dime us.
the PC has had online gaming for over almost 2 decades now without that shit
it wasn\'t needed untill microsoft made you believe it was, and charge you for it
c:\\rmdir microsoft
c:\\undelete \\sega\\*.*
and live was not first, seganet was way ahead of it
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I have never paid for online gaming. Ever.
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I got the 1-year subscription to Xbox Live and received a free headset and Crimson Skies, all for $30.
That\'s all I\'ve spent.
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This is a Sony Forum.
Nothing else really has to be said.
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this is more of a multi-console forum
but i\'m a sega whore through and through
:)
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I got the 1-year subscription to Xbox Live and received a free headset and Crimson Skies, all for $30.
That\'s all I\'ve spent.
Yeah? Well I played PS2 games online and only had to pay for the network adapter. No subscription for playing online the whole few times a year that I do. I never had many problems with Sony\'s online program anyway. I only played Battlefront online (can\'t play online at my school since the network sucks) and had relatively no problems. Plus it was FREE :)
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xbox live is nice and all, but if i pay for online it has to be PERFECT. which i guarantee it isnt.
And the only reason people bitch about ps2\'s online thing is because its as basic as possible. The niftiest it got was scores in madden scrolling across the bottom. Other than that all there was was message and challange. But i had no problem with that..dont need all the unnecessary bells and whistles especially since it was their first time putting a console online.
But that 30 buck deal u got IS nice..considering i think the network adapter was 40 bucks. Then again..that was 40 bucks for a lifetime and not 30 bucks for 365 days.
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Xbox Live is worth the price of admission, and now it\'s free is you only feel like gaming on weekends.
-Dan
/2 cents
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hate microsoft?
not at all, thier !!!!!!!!!\'s irritate me
fuck an "online stance" or "platform". we don\'t need a marketplace to nickle and dime us.
the PC has had online gaming for over almost 2 decades now without that shit
it wasn\'t needed untill microsoft made you believe it was, and charge you for it
c:\\rmdir microsoft
c:\\undelete \\sega\\*.*
and live was not first, seganet was way ahead of it
Yes, Seganet was. It was also a failure due to that. It doesn\'t matter who is first, it matters who make it a success and Live is a success.
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they making a profit on that xbox yet?
define "success"
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Xbox Live is a success. Meaning it has penetrated the market and is widey used by Xbox owners.
Don\'t be so dense.
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widely?
roughly 10% of all xbox owners have touched live
you guys just make this shit up?
hell, they give some of it away for free, and less than a quarter of 360 owners have gotten online
oh, lol
February 2006, USA:
1. PlayStation 2 - 300,000
2. PSP - 170,000
3. Xbox 360 - 160,000
4. Nintendo DS - 150,000
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6145806.html
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Arguing over semantics.
ehh
Widely used as in there is a very large community in every Xbox Live game. Sometimes I wonder if you even used the service for a decent amount of time. You just seem to spew off hate.
The 10% mark was concluded early January of 2005. There aren\'t any new numbers released since the the 360 came out.
edit
Oh, that\'s a great chart there. Comparing the PS2 to a console that just came out and currently has a god damned shortage.
Nice one.
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i used it once when it was first started, got called something that sounded like "you jew nigger" after i killed someone in halo.
turned it off
i\'m told it hasn\'t improved much =/
what shortage? lol
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Shortage? There are 360s sitting on the shelves around here. If you are looking for one, just order one from Canada, eh?
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Shortage? There are 360s sitting on the shelves around here. If you are looking for one, just order one from Canada, eh?
Canada must be some magical land then because the shortage is still in effect and real. You see, Microsoft enjoys being assholes.
mm, what shortage? You must be joking me. Microsoft didn\'t produce enough consoles to create artificial demand. EB games and Gamestop won\'t have any in stock until all their pre-orders are handled with. They said it should be finished this Month, but they pushed it back again. All the other retailers sell out immediately.
http://untitlednet.com/
I and some other forumers from Penny Arcade had to use this program just to quickly snatch one up early in the morning.
Doubting this shortage is pretty damned ignorant.
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i saw a ton of core systems sitting at circuit city this past weekend
/shrug
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The store that represents all of America.
I had to buy a core from South Jersey. They also had a lot. According to untitlednet, they don\'t exist anymore.
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I have yet to see a single CORE system in ANY electronic stores here. There is a shortage.
It\'s the same as when some people saw the PS2 in area\'s and others didn\'t see it for months.
Xbox Live is a success - it is the very thing that other console makers will try and mimic.
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I have yet to see a single CORE system in ANY electronic stores here. There is a shortage.
It\'s the same as when some people saw the PS2 in area\'s and others didn\'t see it for months.
Xbox Live is a success - it is the very thing that other console makers will try and mimic.
Go to Japan. They don\'t seem to have much of a shortage there :p
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EB games and Gamestop won\'t have any in stock until all their pre-orders are handled with. They said it should be finished this Month, but they pushed it back again. All the other retailers sell out immediately.
Funny, both EB and Gamestop have consoles available to order right now on their websites.
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Funny, both EB and Gamestop have consoles available to order right now on their websites.
I know that. They are only in bundles because they have a limited amount and want to sell it for all its worth. That doesn\'t change the fact that there is a shortage.
Funny huh.
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theres a bundle for $1,500 on gamestop\'s site
i want to kick anyone in the nuts who bought that. then take 3 of the games in that bundle and the 360.
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i saw a ton of core systems sitting at circuit city this past weekend
/shrug
Did you check back the next day? I saw premium and cores at Best Buy one Saturday and that Sunday they were gone. Sure it\'s all anecdotal but they seem to selling as fast as store put them on the shelf.
As far as an artificial shortage, that\'s just crazy. Selling a product is the goal, not frustrating potential customers.
Anyway, I see competition as a good thing no matter who\'s in the game.
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it\'s a planned shortage to create demand, don\'t kid yourself
sony did it with the PS2.
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Proof?
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right here, big boy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense)
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So you have no proof other than your conspiracy theories. That\'s cool, I like conspiracies too. Makes life more interesting.
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oh, i didn\'t notice you posting any facts to support your consumerist excuses
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My stance on this is far more believable. I think it\'s more believable a company would be more inclined to sell it\'s product to a buying public than hold it back to frustrate them.
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well, you\'re incorrect
frustrate who?
most 360 buyers are prior xbox owners and
anyone who desperately had to have a 360 has gotten one
there\'s no reason a joe schmoe gamer to buy one, not like it plays HD-DVD\'s
the rest of the general public knows that the PS3 and rev are right around the corner, hence low 360 sales, hence a designed shortage to give the illusion of demand....
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So you theory is that MS is holding back supplies to people who won\'t buy them anyway?
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to. create. artificial. demand
:banghead:
i doubt they\'re "holding back" supplies, just didn\'t produce them for obvious reasons (huge losses).
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I\'m going to agree to disagree here until I see some hard evidence.
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then start digging, and let me know what you don\'t find
in the meantime, excuses for a 6 year old console beating it in sales will have to suffice. what\'s going to happen when two brand new consoles are released later on this year?
microsoft shouldn\'t have even bothered
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to. create. artificial. demand
:banghead:
i doubt they\'re "holding back" supplies, just didn\'t produce them for obvious reasons (huge losses).
Everyone knows the hardware is sold at a loss. You\'re saying they intentionally reduced supply to decrease sales, and reduce their losses? That makes no sense. The only way they can make a profit is to sell enough consoles to make up the loss in profits through software sales. How can they sell software if not enough people own the hardware?
Microsoft\'s only chance to challenge Sony in this market is to sell as many 360s NOW, while their competitor has no product. I believe MS knows this. The supply problems are caused by Microsoft\'s incompetence, not their stupidity. Any competent company could solve a "temporary" supply problem in much less than 4 months. That is a life time in the manufacturing business.
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then start digging, and let me know what you don\'t find
in the meantime, excuses for a 6 year old console beating it in sales will have to suffice. what\'s going to happen when two brand new consoles are released later on this year?
microsoft shouldn\'t have even bothered
This is all because you hate MS.
Right now I\'m enjoying the 360 and I\'ll be enjoying the PS3 when it hits stores. I\'d rather have more choices.
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how could i "hate" a business? that\'s rediculous
i never saw thier need for existance in the industry
you\'re enjoying a 400$ console to play 5$ geometry wars like most 360 owners?
anything else worth playing is currently available on the PC, or will be shortly
perhaps you can say the same thing in 3 years when the xbox 720 is released
or will they speed up the console lifecycle even more?
more choices = consumerism
karl marx would be so proud
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I actually find the 360 in the name to be quite ironic. 360 is a complete circle putting you back in the original point. Many people complain that the 360 isn\'t much better than the original Xbox in graphics (atleast of now). I find it funny the name 360 only put MS in the same place as they were before.....eh best you ignore this post. I\'ve got a lot of caffine in my system right now and enjoy typing :)
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well, the 360 is certainly capable of better graphics than the xbox, but the majority of gamers still do not own a HDTV (and even less a good one, go go EDTV! :rolleyes:).
even so, the 360 is still way behind what a mid-grade PC can do
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Play geometry wars huh? I can log on my friends list and you will see a half and half of Oblivion and GRAW right now. With the usual 15 of Halo 2 of course.
I have about 93 people on my list and all of them are active players. Sure we play Geometry wars from time to time, but that\'s because we have the option to do so.
Mid grade PC?
mm I know you know better than that. Just because it has a a souped up ATI x850 card does not mean it will run the same way. Consoles and PC\'s are different. The original Xbox had a GeForce 3 in it and it put out shit that card cannot do on a PC.
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ummm, last i checked, oblivion is available and PC and GRAW is on its way
The original Xbox had a GeForce 3 in it and it put out shit that card cannot do on a PC.
2.5, but untrue anyways
Consoles and PC\'s are different.
actually, they are coming closer in comparisons (sadly enough)
xbox graphics vs PC?
cost is not an excuse anymore, it\'s moot
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I\'m lucky if I can view a quicktime movie on the internet. The idea of using a pc for anything complex makes me throw up a little in my mouth.
-Dan
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it\'s hard to get legitimate debates I guess
so let\'s just post fun pictures
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa319%2FRanced%2Fachewoodtetris.gif&hash=4c92760e99260609a0d7e9a40343868caffd9b81)
that describes this thread very well
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legitimate?
you talk about 93 friends on live
when the hell did it turn into "myspace.com?
add me to your friends list? teehee :gfight:
again, there is no need for a bloated "playground" interface.
you need a client app, an IP (or a server browser), some real friends...and no monthly fee
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You can have 100 friends on your list on live, that\'s how you can play together in different games
I\'ll add you to the list if you somehow end up getting a 360 once you finally decide not to have retarded system loyalties.
Haha get real friends?
A-hahahahahahahahahah
Obviously LAN parties are all the rage in apartment complexes here in NY. Oh wait, maybe we can just borrow our moms basement in Long Island for a while, I\'m sure she won\'t mind.
Maybe I can get some of my friends who moved to LA to come back here instead. This way I won\'t have to pay for Live!
edit
ahahahahahahahahahaha
edit
heh that was fun while it lasted, i got to go to my break now. ttyl omg lol hart
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system loyalties?
more like educated consumer
you can say "fan boy", it\'s ok. say it all you like, it just won\'t stick
i\'ve bashed the hell out of "teh sony" just as much, and don\'t get started on nintendo.
i will not be buying a 360 untill:
a. killer app launches that will never see ps3, rev, or PC (doubtul)
b. they reduce the price to 113$ which is what the xbox presently is worth + the 15% increase in graphics
c. pigs fly
again, what games aren\'t on the PC now or soon that you need a 360 for besides geometry wars?
i\'ll pardon your insecurities, and freudian slip there, i meant "anyone" just needs real friends to play online gaming, not you personally. certainly not some dude that just beat you in burnout:revenge
but way to go :thumb:
oh, and "lan parties" are ultra-gay, just ask soully. no, really
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oh sweet
Juvenile, subtle insults. I love the high school mentality vibe you emit. I\'m sure soon were going to start making fun of eachothers penis size huh?
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no wonder the console forum is dead
i miss watchdog, that guy had balls
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ehh it\'s starting to rain, i guess i\'ll just go to a starbucks or some shit
anyway what we need more is ethugg, mr faggot cockfat eater doo doo face
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now you\'re talking!!!!!!
miss that dude
:(
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I would be pleased to abandon my PC for gaming purposes. The nice thing about a console is that the hardware specs are locked. I don\'t have to worry about some lazy software developer deciding that I need a newer processor and more RAM to run his 1337 new FPS.
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This just came in......
Gaming sucks now\'a\'days on any platform.
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and you don\'t have to worry about a dev not being competent in coding for non-standardized proprietary console hardware? :confused:
i mean, just look at the games (360 included)
hello anisotropic filtering! :rolleyes:
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and you don\'t have to worry about a dev not being competent in coding for non-standardized proprietary console hardware? :confused:
i mean, just look at the games (360 included)
hello anisotropic filtering! :rolleyes:
Wow you truly are 1337. I think I can decide whether the game is enjoyable to play, looks good, and is free from crashes, without knowing what ansiotropic filtering is.
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you don\'t have to know what it is, just that you shouldn\'t tolerate the lack of it on a next-gen console
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The supply problems are caused by Microsoft\'s incompetence, not their stupidity. Any competent company could solve a "temporary" supply problem in much less than 4 months. That is a life time in the manufacturing business.
Actually I\'ve read that Infineon, the suppliers of the 360\'s ram, are running into production issues, causing the delays.
Alright back to fighting, these threads are always fun. :applause:
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i\'d like to see 360 in last place, and microsoft leave the markey
primarily because thier !!!!!!!!!! fans are the fucking worst.
Ahh you mean the X-snots
I couldn\'t agree more, the worst Xbox fans are a voicetrous and annoying as hell, but they are the bad apples.
However MS needs to stay in the console business. Its their pocketbooks that will drive Sony to be even better, something Nintendo really can\'t compete with IMO and which will force MS to try even harder. MS and Sony duking it out will push the industry faster and further. Gamers are the true beneficiary fo this great heated competition
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi14.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa319%2FRanced%2FransnooX420.gif&hash=f8f50e88dd180b30b34798c5d07e6829f03aa89f)
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I predict both consoles will suck. Infact, the one that excites me is the Revolution, simply because Nintendo isn\'t just trying to pump out impressive specs, they are wantin\' to make a niche\'.. I am tired of graphics, I want games that interest me. I don\'t need a more realistic sports / fps / racing game.
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I am tired of graphics, I want games that interest me. I don\'t need a more realistic sports / fps / racing game.
true, another katamari with much bigger levels would make my pants tight
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Ahh you mean the X-snots
I couldn\'t agree more, the worst Xbox fans are a voicetrous and annoying as hell, but they are the bad apples.
However MS needs to stay in the console business. Its their pocketbooks that will drive Sony to be even better, something Nintendo really can\'t compete with IMO and which will force MS to try even harder. MS and Sony duking it out will push the industry faster and further. Gamers are the true beneficiary fo this great heated competition
Ahm....for some reason I dont think that the existence of MS in the console market will make Sony better
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No? Wait and see what happens when you take PS3 online.
You\'ll owe that to Microsoft.
-Dan
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true, another katamari with much bigger levels would make my pants tight
Me and My Katamari is their last Katamari game.
:(
Anyway, I just picked up Oblivion. Sup Zombies.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bouncehp.net%2FImages%2FScreenshots%2FOblivion%2Fzombie-punchS2.gif&hash=173c69c7396826fbaf09fdc4213dc238cca63a89)
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No? Wait and see what happens when you take PS3 online.
You\'ll owe that to Microsoft.
-Dan
ofcourse no.
If you think Sony can improve on anything limitlessly as MS absorbs marketshare from generation to generation just because they arent puting theirselves under the big risks Sony does, since losses from the console market arent as much of a concern to MS as to Sony then we are up for a surprise.
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ofcourse no.
If you think Sony can improve on anything limitlessly as MS absorbs marketshare from generation to generation just because they arent puting theirselves under the big risks Sony does, since losses from the console market arent as much of a concern to MS as to Sony then we are up for a surprise.
That\'s a pretty ignorant statement. Both Sony and Microsoft gained very little if any cash flow from the PS2 and Xbox. In fact, Microsoft lost a lot of money just trying to get the Xbox as an estabished console. Even Halo and Halo 2, though being a large success, barely helped. Most of the money was spent on advertising the damned thing.
So far, even though at third place, Nintendo has been the only company with a large cash intake. Obviously due to the fact that they have many best selling first party titles and the Nintendo DS. It\'s like their iPod.
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Read again what I said. MS can stay in the market even if they generate losses. I did say that they lost money. They can improve and adverdise without risking much and still gain market share.
In order for Sony to compete and improve to remain competitive they are puting theirselves under higher risks.
MS can absorb market share with decisions that are less risky for them. The same decisions for Sony are riskier.
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Their DVD players and TV\'s aren\'t selling as well as they used to. The Playstation brand name and blu-ray technology is what they are riding on. No doubt the PS3 is going to sell well, but they are going to lose a lot of money per unit. I\'d hate to lose them considering the PSP is an awesome handheld thus far.
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I wouldn\'t worry too much about Sony. They seem to be really marketing well, they have a big fanbase and they have the technological edge. I think they\'ll be fine despite the hit they are gonna take. Besides, the technology they\'re putting in will become cheaper within the next year or so and they\'ll be able to turn a profit.
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Their DVD players and TV\'s aren\'t selling as well as they used to. The Playstation brand name and blu-ray technology is what they are riding on. No doubt the PS3 is going to sell well, but they are going to lose a lot of money per unit. I\'d hate to lose them considering the PSP is an awesome handheld thus far.
Yep I agree
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Their DVD players and TV\'s aren\'t selling as well as they used to.
speculation?
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speculation?
Not this time, it\'s fact. One of the reasons they brought in Stringer, to turn things around. I saw a recent 60 minutes special on Sony, and it was pretty enlightening. They\'ve gotten so big, their own bureaucracy was affecting business for the worse.
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fact?
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It is mm. Look it up yourself.
If you frequent any home theatre forums at all, this would be old news.
edit
2003 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KZC/is_2003_July_31/ai_n15753241)
2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Kutaragi) I hate using wiki but the "Kutaragi\'s assessment by industry analysts" section pretty much has the info on Sony\'s 2005 fiscal year. That and I also can\'t find the actual article for the year.
Same with 2005, but it just says that Samsung has "crushed" Sony when it comes to CRT\'s and DLP\'s.
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lol
if dvd players aren\'t selling as well, it\'s because everyone already has one
*newsflash*
"sales of VHS players have dropped significantly", joe schmoe from http://www.avsforum.com tells us. this can only mean one thing, mass hysteria.
sony is the one of the top 2 TV manufacturer\'s in volume, number 1 i\'d say in picture quality
2003? 2004?
wtf? :rofl:
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This is in comparison to other companies. It\'s still doing bad, money lost is money lost.
sony is the one of the top 2 TV manufacturer\'s in volume, number 1 i\'d say in picture quality
They are third/fourth depending on the year. Samsung, Toshiba, and Philips are usually on top since 2005.
2003? 2004?
wtf?
What the fuck does that mean? There still aren\'t any improvements. What a stupid, stupid comment.
I don\'t think you see the point at all. That whole paragraph of yours is borderline retarded mm.
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how popular were HDTV\'s 3 years ago?
how many people were not buying TV\'s anymore beacuse
a. they already had one
b. waiting for HDTV to come down in price
:rolleyes:
you guys kill me, it\'s like you just say shit to try and get on my nerves
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So Samsung, Toshiba, and Philips are gaining more money than Sony magically? Oh that\'s alright, everyone already has the item so of course it doesn\'t sell as well. Those other 3 companies are just robbing banks, it\'s so obvious.
I am not trying to talk bad about Sony, it\'s just that a fact is a fact. I actually hope they do better because I favor the blu-ray drive over HD-DVD.
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i don\'t care if you talk bad about "teh sony"
gaining more money? i didn\'t realize you were so up to date on the financial reports of all 4 companies
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Throw in some unreasonable doubt and here we have another one of your crappy retorts.
I am off to work now.
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throw in more speculation next time
makes it less interesting
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Here\'s a neat article whether you like Sony or not:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/06/60minutes/main1183023.shtml
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throw in more speculation next time
makes it less interesting
Speculation?
Holy shit, you are so damn dense, every article posted was a fact.
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....from 3 years ago (when HDTV\'s were hella expensive and people weren\'t buying normal TV\'s)
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lol
if dvd players aren\'t selling as well, it\'s because everyone already has one
*newsflash*
"sales of VHS players have dropped significantly", joe schmoe from http://www.avsforum.com tells us. this can only mean one thing, mass hysteria.
sony is the one of the top 2 TV manufacturer\'s in volume, number 1 i\'d say in picture quality
2003? 2004?
wtf? :rofl:
It doesnt matter to a company that the sales decreased due to diminishing increase of sales.
It only matters that sales decreased compared to previous fiscal years and that they must find a solution to regenerate sales so they will regenerate revenues.
Thats why they put too much emphasis in new products like BR and Bravia TVs.
It doesnt mean that they will do well though.
They may even do worse.
The initial point is that Sony is under much more risks than lets say MS or even other competitive companies.
Businesses face cycles and for some its harder to recover, or to maintain a steady state for a long period.
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Jesus Christ
Here\'s one for 2004 (http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Sony_Posts_Losses_but_Remains_Defiant_5635_0_0.htm)
Another for 2005 (http://iwanttoplayfreegames.com/GameNews/15/24/)
Yet another one for 2005 (http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=5587)
heh
Their TV\'s aren\'t selling as well as other companies and they are losing money. The Playstation brand name is their cash cow.
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No matter how bad sony\'s other products are struggling ps3 will outsell the 360 and rev.
I have no conosle loayalty like others may have. The only reason I am chosing sony only this time because the consoles are so high. $400 for a 360 and maybe $500 for a ps3. With those types of prices you gotta chose the best console.
And I know ps3 will have all the top games. And now that it will have a hdd included. There really is no reason to get a 360 for what halo? Don\'t get me wrong I love me some halo but not to spend $400 on console just to play that one game.
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The consoles will come down in price eventually anyway. The technology in them will get cheaper.
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ramble ramble
ehh
I have no doubt PS3 is going to sell like hotcakes, but saying the x360 only has Halo is pretty damned ignorant.
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or pretty close to the truth?
take the top 10 xbox titles, how many weren\'t on other consoles/pc?
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Project Gotham series
Halo and Halo 2
Phantom Dust
Ninja Gaiden
Jade Empire
Not much at all. Though the x360 seems like it\'s going to change that.
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halo wasn\'t on pc and halo 2 coming?
jade empire? phantom dust? lol
360 change that? almost all of its good games so far on on PC (graw, oblivion, gun, condemned, COD2), or coming shortly
honestly, bro....
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I find it funny that you even consider the Halo series synonymous with the PC. Other than coming out two years after release from the console, Halo sold, literaly, 4 times more on the Xbox. I\'m sure it will be the same for Halo 2 since I highly doubt it will sell 11 million copies for vista.
I guess the MGS series doesn\'t count for the PS2 also since I can see an MGS game on all three consoles.
edit
same with GTA
jade empire? phantom dust? lol
Yea, these actually sold well. You said top ten.
I guess I can\'t count them because you find it funny.
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i guess any platformer/racing/flying/sport/action/puzzle/rpg game cant count because they were on the intellivision
you cant just list a few games you liked and call it an argument
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That does not make sense.
mm, the Console Discussion description seriously does not fit you man.
edit
Anyway, I\'m off to play some Oblivion. My Shrek looking character needs a new sword.
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hay post count numbers are back! woo!
mm is fat.
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pretty hot and tempting?
oh,
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I hate to burst everyone\'s bubble but neither console will rock right off the bat. How long did it take before the PS2 got a killer application (I so don\'t count SSX!). How long was it before the Xbox got one? The first generation games almost always suck.
I personally want one and I don\'t want one. I keep flip-floppin\' on the whole situation. Do I want a new PS3 or do I want a vacation? At one time this wouldn\'t of been an issue but when you look at a console costing most likely near $500 dollars, it becomes an issue. I simply expect more for the price and no, Blu-Ray playback does not warrant that price. I done the same with the Xbox (I so want Oblivion, but hell, I can just buy that for the PC) and guess what? I have not picked one up and won\'t, no matter how tempting it becomes. I won\'t support these outrageous console prices, espically when the games are becoming more and more expensive also. There has to be a point where the consoles and games get so expensive that you lose the average consumer. And yes, I now classify myself as the "average consumer". I am the "Average consumer", because I now look at price instead of buyin\' everything simply because I feel a desire to own the latest and greatest.
On the other hand, I am in no way saying that the PS3 will suffer low sales, I know it won\'t. Infact, with the high price tag comes the illusion that it must be the greatest thing ever and I am sure that is something that Sony is hoping on. Not to mention that Blu-Ray players are currently being targeted at a $800 - $1,000 price range. This makes the PS3 sound like the greatest deal ever, even if most of America don\'t have HDTV\'s yet ( ;) ) . I do however expect a nice shortage. There is no way Sony will be able to do a world wide launch and meet demand, espically during the holiday season. I would imagine this is what they want, just like last generation. A shortage of units can provide even greater demand (shortage = illusion of rarity / greatest), if done properly (i.e, Not XBOX 360 style!). But will people buy the shortage when you consider that the Revolution will launch around the same time for most likely $300 dollars less and a Mario game?
With all that said, I am seriously thinking about buying a PsTwo and catchin\' up on some games (Guitar Hero and God of War) and maybe pickin\' up some Xbox games (Jade Empire) and just being content. I can\'t justify the purchase of a $400 - $ 500 dollar console no matter how I cut it and I think a lot of people will be in the exact same situation.
Oh yeah and I\'m goin\' to call it right now. The Nintendo Revolution will have record sales. It will launch with a Mario game and it will be priced at around $200 making it by far the cheapest console. Hell, on that note, I think if I do buy any systems it will be the Revolution, even if it does feature the gayest name since the CD-I. Oh and one more thing, if Nintendo really wants to sell the units do a promotion like the N64. I remember gettin\' a free duffle bag and Mario T-SHIRT. I pre-ordered mine at Toys\'r\'US and everytime you went in and showed them your ticket, you\'d get a duffle bag and T-SHIRT. I think I ended up with like ten of each..Now that was the good ole\' days.
....Called it - Nintendo Revolution = Best sales 3/28/06 at 12:19 A.M .........
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Heh...LIC can\'t go two minutes without having to edit his post. Wonder what part of the prediction got edited ;).
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He\'s got some good logic. Revolution truely is gonna be the underdog and people aren\'t expecting it to be truely awesome but watch, its price may beat the crap out of Xbox and PS3 in sales. We\'ll see.
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stop fucking copying me is all I can say.
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Only an asshole wouldn\'t buy a Revolution.
No one here wants to be an asshole right?
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i think you already won
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I like assholes. They\'re tight and slippery (with lube).
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Here is my small prediction and analyses from a gamer who has only played 360 once and besides that hasn\'t played ANYTHING in over 2 years (besides old arcade games in Peru)
Xbox360 - MS has done a great job marketing this thing. You guys and almost all gamers have said "what a screwed up launch" but everyone wants an XBox, and they continue to sell out, despite having few units. This is 5 months after launch and they are still selling out ALL over in the US everytime they get on shelves. I have gone with a friend looking for them and they are very tough. I saw 4 or 5 at a Walmart one day and I went there the day after and they were all gone. We asked the guy to call the other stores, he went looking for a 360 and they were all sold out in every store, and there are like 6 or 7 Walmarts in Omaha. I am sure they would like to have more systems out all the time, but they have kept up the demand part of the launch very nicely, now just get the supply out before the PS3 comes out. That is going to be the tough part. They are going to sell no less than 300k averaged out for the rest of the year for a chance to end up this generation close to PS3. They will also need high profile third party exclusives and well-timed first party offerings. Halo 3 is a given someday, and it will be the biggest thing on earth when it comes out, but better this year, and the week before PS3 comes out than later. No better way to squelch demand for another product by releasing a seemingly better product before it. Halo 3 will be better than anything available on the PS3 at launch, this would be a given, shown by the quality of the previous two games, and it really would be a big coup for MS.
BUTTTTTTTT, MS is banking on Gears of War. I, for one, hope they are right. This better be some amazing game or you can kiss 360\'s shot at the title goodbye. If it is truly a hit and for 2007, MS can work the hype up for Halo 3, etc. I can see MS winning all the way up til 2008, when in 2008 PS3 has been out for over a year in all territories and has had plenty of time for a killer app or 5 to come out, and takes the lead in all markets except for NA. North America will have the lead taken eventually in 2009.
MS is banking on XBox Live and a few high profile titles. Gears of War is the most crucial of all of these. They already have the PC nerds in their pocket now with Oblivion. It is the best selling game in the UK and surely in the USA right now, with what should be a good majority of those sales on the 360. They have the FPS crowd, too. With great sales of CoD2, an average game, selling nearly 1 million copies. Sports fans, Racing fans, etc. Now what is left is the dwindling j-rpg crowd for the 360 and it will cover all genres and cover them well. Maybe not getting a Final Fantasy (XI will be over 3 years old by the time it comes out for the 360!) or a Dragon Quest, but Blue Dragon should by all counts be great and who knows what else. Gears of War is the most crucial game for them at this point. If it is better than Halo on rye, they will have a great generation ahead of them. Maybe not take the lead, but will be happy with the increased sales across the board on the games and the system.
Now, on to PS3.
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Someone should ask how well MS has marketed the xbox360 in EU as well though since
1)There are shortages generally even in the US
2)Its easier for MS to market it in the US
Some numbers would help. I am curious really to see how well its doing in Europe.
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PS3 is interesting.
Sony is really banking on HD on this one, it seems. I just can\'t believe that too many americans (or anyone, for that matter) have enough HDTVs to care at this point. It is still a growing market and I believe few sales will be for the much touted Bluray playback. At least not until 2008 when HDTVs have a much larger percentage share, but then again, at that point, BR players will be cheaper and have faster drives, more options, better quality, etc. The games for PS3 will be better looking and should have the same capability of the 360 games speaking about online stuff, but I don\'t think that for all SOny does, they will be able to match the users on XBL, a big cash cow for MS (the only one in regards to their games division, I would think). But Sony will most likely have third party exclusives like the last time, and they will be high quality games. I predict a great launch for PS3. It will sell tons and will be the same or a bit higher than 360\'s sales in all areas but NA until 2008, when it will most likely take over there, too.
I would say that Sony is actually in the tightest spot. They aren\'t going to have Japan wide open to themselves anymore, it appears. I am not talking about 360, that is almost (ok, it really is) a lost cause in Japan, but I believe the Revolution is going to do amazingly in Japan, and only OK in the other markets. This will make for many japanese developers to release their games on Revolution, despite the differences, and make interesting (due to the controller) content for the rev. In all markets, Sony will have a ton of competition, too. I don\'t think it will be easy for them this time. If they are arrogant and it turns out that the PS3 is not as good as it is cracked up to be, it might very well end up in second.
Biggest Weapon for Japan - Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. If another system aquires these games, Sony is done for as far as being number one in all areas. Gran Turismo isn\'t all the rage anymore, neither is Gran Turismo. Sure they both will move millions of units, but they don\'t have the same sway they once did. It isn\'t likely now that MS will have several millions of units of 360 on the market that Take2 would be dumb enough to make it PS3 console exclusive, though. Tony Hawk is dead as a console selling franchise, as well as Tomb Raider, all former Sony exclusives, all killing the EXTRA push that PS2 had against the competition. There isn\'t a contract signed with anyone, and that will definitely hurt a few console sales, too. Biggest games: FFXIII, Dragon Quest IX, Gran Turismo 5, and other sequels. I haven\'t heard of too many original licenses created for PS3 yet, but it is still early and much time left to develop more original stuff, surely the biggest game for PS3 will be the one that is unannounced and completely new IP. :P
and onto the Rev.
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REV -
This system is going to own, but I think only for a second-system basis. It will steal sales from other systems, I believe, but it\'s highest selling afairs will be from Nintendo. Huge sales in Japan if done right, great sales everywhere else it\'s first couple of years, after that, completely falling apart (like the GC) unless Nintendo can keep a steady stream of games (quality of course, but then again, that isn\'t usually a problem with Nintendo) and get other creative studios to make games exclusively for the gyro controller.
Key games - Zelda, Mario (especially at launch, if it is at launch, say hello to HUGE launch), SSBM online.
I would like to make a note to Living-in-Clip about the killer app thing. PS2 had no killer app at launch, it is true, but XBox did. XBox single-handedly made itself viable and the 2nd best selling platform in the US with Halo. It was THE killer app until Christmas 2004. This can be seen by looking at a sales chart and seeing how Halo was in the charts for nearly three years always hovering aroudn the top 10.
If Revolution gets something like that, a genuinely clever use of the controller, they might just have a shot at some really big success. Perhaps an FPS with the controller would be ace!
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Unicron, a poster on GAF said that the 360 is the highest selling console in the UK, selling around 10-15k consoles (with spikes when new shipments come in) every week. I have heard it is doing really well in Germany, too. A few weeks back, a chart was posted with GRAW on top of the lists in France, I think, too.
I wish we had more hard facts, but it seems it is doing really well in everywhere except Japan.
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Seems it could be doing great there as well then.
Nice points btw :)
I think there is a typo though in your PS3 prediction
"Gran Turismo isn\'t all the rage anymore, neither is Gran Turismo"
Which is the other game?
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oops, I meant to say Gran Theft Auto for the second one. I mean, I am sure it will still sell millions worldwide where ever it is, but there are alot of successful imitators on the market (50 Cent\'s game supposedly sold more than a million in the US alone!) and it is quite possible that it will be multiplatform this time.
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Indeed.
My hopes mostly rely on games like Lair,1-8 ,Warhawk, Motorstorm(although the tech demo was far from target render quality) and Killzone to become the newly original(-ish) established titles on the PS3.
The Playstation brand is almost fed up from sequels.
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I doubt Motorstorm will be a hugely popular game based on the theme, but Killzone could be the big one, it sold well on PS2 and if it is a AAA game on PS3 with great online support, it will sell millions and push tons of consoles. I-8 looks great, too. Warhawk could be great, any idea what it is doing about online support? I still have the first one on PSX!
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No idea. I think nothing was mentioned about Warhawk\'s online support
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Wow, intelligent input.
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REV -
This system is going to own, but I think only for a second-system basis. It will steal sales from other systems, I believe, but it\'s highest selling afairs will be from Nintendo. Huge sales in Japan if done right, great sales everywhere else it\'s first couple of years, after that, completely falling apart (like the GC) unless Nintendo can keep a steady stream of games (quality of course, but then again, that isn\'t usually a problem with Nintendo) and get other creative studios to make games exclusively for the gyro controller.
Key games - Zelda, Mario (especially at launch, if it is at launch, say hello to HUGE launch), SSBM online.
I would like to make a note to Living-in-Clip about the killer app thing. PS2 had no killer app at launch, it is true, but XBox did. XBox single-handedly made itself viable and the 2nd best selling platform in the US with Halo. It was THE killer app until Christmas 2004. This can be seen by looking at a sales chart and seeing how Halo was in the charts for nearly three years always hovering aroudn the top 10.
If Revolution gets something like that, a genuinely clever use of the controller, they might just have a shot at some really big success. Perhaps an FPS with the controller would be ace!
I think you\'re under estimating the power of Revolution\'s new controller. The majority of the system\'s buyers will buy it simply because of that. Which means the more traditional approaches of Sony and MS will have no appeal to them whatsoever. Hard core people will have it as a 2nd system, but there are a lot more "soft core" people than hard core. A helluva lot more.
DS shows this quite conclusively. No one thought it had a shade of a chance against the PSP, but it\'s owning it purdy good. Revolution will parrallel the DS with its ownage of X360 and PS3. Complete and utter ownage.
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there\'s a ton of people that will not buy the rev because of its gimmick controller.
expect (in sales) PS3 > rev > 360
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I think you have got it backwards, mm. It will probably go PS3>XBox360>/= REV
Avatarr, The DS only sells Nintendo games. I Same as the N64 and GC for the most part, utterly destroying many chances that the system (REV) will have for getting high profile content. People just want to play their Madden or their Final Fantasys from time to time, but when Nintendo secures games like that: Baiten Kaitos, or FF:CC, or Madden, or Resident Evil:Remake, 0, or 4, etc. NOBODY has cared. Not one has been able to break a million in any given area on the GC, despite being high profile games.
The million sellers on Nintendo systems will always be straight from Nintendo and anything that says "Sonic" on it from Sega. That is about it. The mainstream developers won\'t make games for it, because it is essentially, in power, a LAST-GEN console and can\'t/won\'t do many of the tricks that PS3/360 will and can do.
That is why I think it might be relegated to last place in 2 markets (NA and EU) and second or MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE first in one market (Japan) but that is a big maybe. I really want Rev to succeed, but I am not buying it for the Virtual Console, unless they end up translating some of my old favorite Japanese roms and imports. I am interested in it for some semblance of an american FPS with the Revmote. I am sure Nintendo will cook up alot of ideas for it, but I think on whole, it will go unused and will remain a gimmick by other companies. Kind of like how many companies use the DS\' second screen as only a map or a progress screen, not having much interaction on it.
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Definitely.
Halo 3 alone secures the 360\'s second place marker. It\'s sad to think that games like Zelda or Metroid cannot beat a game like that regardless of quality. Nintendo has even lost Silicon Knights because they did not agree with their "simplicity" mentality.
DS shows this quite conclusively. No one thought it had a shade of a chance against the PSP, but it\'s owning it purdy good.
Actually, people did not think anything can compete against the handheld giant Nintendo. The PSP was, essentially, the "underdog."
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the PSP is a complete success solely based on nobody thought it would catch on at all, regardless of how it sells compared to the DS.
hell, even UMD\'s are selling quite better than expected
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Not to mention more amazing games are coming for it now.
Powerstone Collection, Ultimate Ghosts \'n Goblins, Loco Roco, Metal Slug 1-6? Fuck yea.
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Yeah, any PSP success is good for Sony. Nobody thought they would be able to have any success and they have done a fine job.
I would even go on to say that they aren\'t selling what they should be, what with GTA, SFA3, and other seemingly great games.
Sure, there are ALOT of ports and popular games, of which I am not really a fan. but there is a lot of original content coming out for it, too.
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the PSP is a complete success solely based on nobody thought it would catch on at all, regardless of how it sells compared to the DS.
hell, even UMD\'s are selling quite better than expected
So by your standard the XBox is a success, right? I mean who would of thunk that MS would get into gaming and sell systems?
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anyone denying that the XBox hasn\'t been a success hasn\'t played many games in the past few years. Several million sellers, 2nd place worldwide, XBox Live community with 2 million repeat users, etc.
Now, saying that it has been profitable for MS would be lying, but then again, it hasn\'t sold 100 million like PS2.
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.01 cent profit = success
care to rephrase "xbox" to a "handful of titles"?
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care to rephrase "xbox" to a "handful of titles"?
That\'s irrelevant since the console still sold a significant amount and gained the second place marker for a newcomer.
.01 cent profit = success
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=10470
Oh, look at this, SCE lost a lot of money too. They have barely profited from the PS2. The new slimline, at $150, is still being sold at a loss. By your standards, the Gamecube won the console wars for profiting the most from their console.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/30/nintendo_q2_results/
They don\'t sell nearly as much, but they don\'t sell at a loss anymore. Added to the fact that they have the most best selling first party games around, this all really is no surprise.
edit
There was one year where Microsoft gained a damn good amount of money though.
Sales
Microsoft: $34.27 billion
Nintendo: $4.26 billion
Sony: $63.23 billion
Profits
Microsoft: $8.88 billion
Nintendo: $0.57 billion
Sony: $0.98 billion
Assets
Microsoft: $85.94 billion
Nintendo: $9.06 billion
Sony: $68.04 billion
Market Value
Microsoft: $287.02 billion
Nintendo: $12.80 billion
Sony: $38.00 billion
Data from the Forbes 2000 (as of 2004)
http://www.forbes.com
2004? I wonder why?
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everything has to be a comparison with you?
i can tell you\'re not an only child
you\'re comparing total microsoft profits vs sony and nintendo?
impressive, way to support the argument :rolleyes:
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Forbes provided the article.
Microsoft profited so I guess they are a success huh? Way to be an idiot and have nothing but broken, redundant, and (your favorite word) crippled arguments.
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so who was talking about (or comparing) microsoft\'s company wide profits again?
must be nice to change the scope of the argument at hand to support your needs
thats something clowd does
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.01 cent profit = success
Am I not mistaken or are you not implying Microsoft wasn\'t a success because of their lack of profits? Oh, you were just saying something random in reply to altered beasts comment right?
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Not to mention more amazing games are coming for it now.
Powerstone Collection, Ultimate Ghosts \'n Goblins, Loco Roco, Metal Slug 1-6? Fuck yea.
Metal Slug on PSP? :eek: That\'s awesome!
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Am I not mistaken or are you not implying Microsoft wasn\'t a success because of their lack of profits? Oh, you were just saying something random in reply to altered beasts comment right?
mistaken, completely
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Random comments, that\'s even better I suppose.
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Was the XBox a success for MS is the real question? I would say, yes. So much so, that they decided it would be worth the investment on another start-up loss of several millions (surely hundreds of millions) on another console, feeling that, after establishing the namebrand with the XBox, that the 360 could take away a considerable piece of the pie.
They did lose money on the XBox, due only to the manufacturing agreements made with other companies, but the XBox as a whole was somewhat of a success to them. They established their brandname in millions of households, took second place worldwide, established their online service as the premium service to use and is currently the most used game internet service on the market, and Sony probably won\'t even touch that or be able to this generation. They have established franchises in place making them money, too. Halo obviously being the biggest, with more than 20 million sold worldwide.
So, yes, they lost money on the XBox division of games, but have gained weight in the lucrative games sector and should by all accounts arrive at profitability sometime in 2007.
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Am I not mistaken or are you not implying Microsoft wasn\'t a success because of their lack of profits? Oh, you were just saying something random in reply to altered beasts comment right?
I kind of agree with mm here.
It depends how you look at it
I dont think XBOX would have still been here if MS didnt have the cash to throw.
Another company would have stopped supporting their product if it generated millions of losses ofr such a long period
It makes you wonder if DC or Saturn would have kept living if SEGA had the same amounts of accumulated capital as MS
On the other hand MS achieved a strong brand name establishment and a competitive presence. Just not the healthy competitive way
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I kind of agree with mm here.
It depends how you look at it
I dont think XBOX would have still been here if MS didnt have the cash to throw.
Another company would have stopped supporting their product if it generated millions of losses ofr such a long period
It makes you wonder if DC or Saturn would have kept living if SEGA had the same amounts of accumulated capital
On the other hand MS achieved a strong brand name establishment and a competitive presence. Just not the healthy competitive way
This would apply to Sony as well.
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you mean sega
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he already pointed it out
The Dreamcast was too awesome to die. I still have the damned thing.
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he already pointed it out
The Dreamcast was too awesome to die. I still have the damned thing.
Probably.That I cant answer. But atleast Sony used their investments right generating profits.
MS didnt
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oh man
that chart I posted man, refer to it for these profits
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:stick:
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it all worked out in the end
like a disney movie
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I think you have got it backwards, mm. It will probably go PS3>XBox360>/= REV
Avatarr, The DS only sells Nintendo games. I Same as the N64 and GC for the most part, utterly destroying many chances that the system (REV) will have for getting high profile content. People just want to play their Madden or their Final Fantasys from time to time, but when Nintendo secures games like that: Baiten Kaitos, or FF:CC, or Madden, or Resident Evil:Remake, 0, or 4, etc. NOBODY has cared. Not one has been able to break a million in any given area on the GC, despite being high profile games.
You\'re still thinking inside the box dude. Just go to that other thread and look at the DS sales figures. Just like the touch screen, the new revmote takes the fight beyond the business of exclusive titles and whatnot. None of it will matter because the issue is on a new level entirely. Rev > everything.
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The handheld market is a different breed. Games like GTA, MGS, and Halo sell consoles.
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Well, the other thing is, portable gaming has always embraced quick gaming on the run, but similar events on the consoles have failed.
Think Wario Ware vs. the GC version sales.
If they can make the games with a long lasting reply value, it will sell well, but few people will drop 200+ on a system and another 50 for every game that they will only play 5 minutes at a time.
IGN has just released the specs, it is only a tiny bit better than an original XBox in it\'s specs and the ONLY thing it is relying on is the revmote. It will be huge in Japan, but can you imagine a driving or soccer game with the revmote? aiming the controller left to right to steer doesn\'t seem too much more than a gimmick to me. Passing the ball or shooting with the revmote doesn\'t either. Those are two of the biggest game genres in Europe and the Rev is at a big disadvantage from my viewpoint there. Sure, FPS would be awesome with the remote, but who will take the first jump? Nintendo? pfff. They won\'t have the Unreal 3 engine, as was just said by one of the leads, and other high profile games that would come out for PC and 360 (and later on PS3). So that leaves for original content for REV basically. Nothing more. Now we see how exclusivity and first party stuff is 100% important for Rev\'s success right off the bat.
Once again, it will be 90% Nintendo games sold on the system and Nintendo has never been known for their quantity, only quality. And quality couldn\'t sell 30 million systems worldwide last generation, even with the majority of third party games that went around and usually a better version than the PS2 (not the XBox, naturally) and always made for poor sales.
I am sure there are people who loved the GC and N64 and will be more than willing to wait for their Rev releases, but with such few games, how will the console sell more than 360 or PS3, which will have a dozen or so games released every month. Will have ALL the big name third party games. Will have HUGE online networks, Will have HD and BR playback (for PS3), 360 will have HD-DVD playback (via addon, more than possibly a non-factor, but still)
How does that equal success again? The funny thing is, DS is doing amazingly, but isn\'t selling as fast as GBA in the same time frame. Nor are any third party games selling amazingly. Since launch in the US, for example no game has sold over 500k, when before, on the GBA for example, 3 Sonic games sold 1 million a piece very easily and many, many other games, too.
In Japan, it isn\'t much better, but at least Tamagotchi sold nearly 1 million. Clap your hands, say yeah!
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yeah!
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Nope. None of that will mean anything to the average consumer. Nintendo, as am I, are contending that the new revmote will be so userfriendly and so intuative that it\'ll grab the attention of the wider electronics market - to the exclusion of MS and Sony. Your mindset is still HD, specs this, resolution that. Absolutley meaningless if you put the revmote into the equation. Everything else is going to be obscured simply because people\'s attention will be focused on this new and unique piece of gadgetry.
There is a lot of skepticism about the revmote. I myself didn\'t buy it immediately. But after I got over the shock of how unexpected it was, I totally jumped on the bandwagon. Being an avid PC gamer, I know how powerful the mouse can be as a control device. Revmote takes the mouse to the 3rd dimension and I am totally excited about where its going to take gaming.
soccer games:
*use it as a mouse, rts style. point cursor to the player you want to pass to.
driving games:
*yes, point or tilt it left and right.
fighting games:
*motions in the air replace the U\'s and half U\'s of the dpad. intensity and range of motion determines intensity of punches and kicks.
rts games:
*use it as a mouse. no more akward fiddling with the gamepad.
sword fighting games like zelda and jedi games:
*sword motions translate directly into the game. hold a or b button to change direction and camera. use dongle for WASD. has implications for tennis games, golf games, baseball games and any other game that involves swinging something around.
A lot of this you will dismiss as a gimmik. But I can totally, totally see how the revmote will actually enhance the gameplay in all the current gneres. You get a wider range of control as well as more percision. The best part is, all this is completely intuative. "Normal" people will compare the revmote and the typical gpad and choose the revmote in a flash.
I understand most of the hard core community can\'t dislodge the present model of gaming, where specs and graphics is the main focus of attention. The rest don\'t care. People will see the revmote, say "that looks easy (and fun) to use" and push the controller based machines to one side. Revolution > Everything.
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http://www.gamespot.com/features/6146540/index.html
came across this link. The black version doesnt look that bad..the white one looks boring.
"Instead of putting together an expensive box with impressive hardware specifications like the Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3, Nintendo decided to set its Revolution system apart by offering innovative gameplay with a new motion sensitive controller. "
sorry but..im not excited about the revolution at all. PS3 and only PS3 will be in my house unless my brother breaks down and gets a 360.
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I guess we shall see, Avatarr, but I doubt it. It might do well amongst women, but unless they set up REVs in Bars playing a golf game or bowling game, etc. It won\'t be the biggest thing since the PSX or better put (as you put it > EVERYTHING) the NES.
In Japan it will be huge, I am sure, but the USA doesn\'t seem to accept change so amazingly fast as the rest of the world. and people aren\'t just going to drop the Playstation and to some extent XBox namebrand in favor of a system with 30 games at the end of 2007. 360 will already have more than 10 million systems worldwide at the end of this year worldwide if they sell as much as they are hoping and PS3 will shoot out of the gates like Secretariat selling everything in arms length for it\'s first 6 month (potential for 4-5 millions is no joke) and what does the Revolution have? Oh, that\'s right, a remote control.
No games, of course, at least none announced. Maybe Nintendo is just so smart that they all have it under wraps, every game by every publisher, but right now, a 2006 launch for Revolution is looking pretty bleak, especially with many devs only just getting their dev kits recently.
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and if the Rev is a great hit, what stops the other systems from creating something similar and having the best of both worlds? It isn\'t like the other companies don\'t know yet what Nintendo is doing and aren\'t looking into what-ifs and such. Only then they will have the power to back them up. And PS3 won\'t have Beetle Racing 256, It will have Gran Turismo or other high profile games with a remote. or some other gimmick device intended to be different.
and 360 won\'t have Geist with a remote, it would have Halo with a remote.
PS3 won\'t have Mario Strikers with a remote, it will have Winning Eleven with a remote, etc.
Get the picture? Games that people already love, using Nintendo\'s gimmick, completely nullifying the "first-console choice appeal" that Nintendo MIGHT get as a result of being different and easy. But then again, people aren\'t really buying too many more games or systems than they were 10 years ago. No matter the advent of CDs, DVD player in gaming, the Eye Toy, online gaming, etc. If it were just as easy as making a controller easy to use = success, NES or Genesis would still be the biggest thing since sliced bread. Sure, with better graphics, but you get the picture. Of course, you could do alot of the stuff you can do on controllers with more buttons, but where is the fun in having options in games, anyway, right?
I just don\'t understand this mindset at all, I believe that the Saturn Nights Pad or the 360 controller are the best ever because of the placement and amount of buttons on them, hence different options of control and having each button doing something instead of one button with the combination of other factors doing things like what might very well happen with the REV. It\'s cool to have the Golfing and Baseball stuff especially, those are going to be amazingly fun games, but I doubt people are going to want a workout everytime they play a game.
Maybe I am just ranting here.
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Thank God someone else realizes the brilliance of the NiGhts Saturn Controller.
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Well, I am a videogame fan. :P Not just some fanboy who bases his opening off of only the stuff I like. I have PS2, XBox, GC, N64, Saturn, PSX, etc. and the best controller made for it\'s time was the Saturn NiGHTS pad. If you could figure out how to throw an extra stick onto the right side of it, it would be undeniable for every type of game made. From fighters (thanks to the amazing D-Pad and six face buttons in two rows), racing (triggers), to FPS (dual sticks), to Super Monkey Ball (best sensistivity range and resistance on any stick since the advent of the analog stick on a console controller), etc. The best controller EVER.
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Sounds like you just described the 360 controller.
Though I\'d still say a KBaM is the best for FPS\'s.
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well, console FPSs are a different breed. The 360 controller lacks a GREAT D-Pad and 6 face buttons in two rows.
Some may say that fighting games aren\'t important anymore, but SF3: 3rd Strike is the best game of all time and if I am going to play it, I am going to play it right.
When I played it on DC, I had a MAS Stick or DC to Saturn convertors and used the Japanese Saturn Pad.
Accept no substitutes.
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I still use a saturn pad for most fighting games. Thank god for adaptors.
None of them exist for the 360 though so I had to buy an arcade stick. It\'s perfect, but a little pricey.
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well, console FPSs are a different breed. The 360 controller lacks a GREAT D-Pad and 6 face buttons in two rows.
Some may say that fighting games aren\'t important anymore, but SF3: 3rd Strike is the best game of all time and if I am going to play it, I am going to play it right.
When I played it on DC, I had a MAS Stick or DC to Saturn convertors and used the Japanese Saturn Pad.
Accept no substitutes.
Anyone that believes that fighting games arent important are those that suck at fighting games or are just PC gamer-graphic whores period
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If it were just as easy as making a controller easy to use = success, NES or Genesis would still be the biggest thing since sliced bread.
Of course, no one would be foolish enough to try to make money today using NES and Genesis games. Especially in some kind of downloadable, pay-to-play, virtual console service.
I will buy a Nintendo Revolution because Nintendo is doing something different. And it\'s doing it cheaper than the other guys.
Sony and Microsoft are content to rip us off for more of the same stuff we\'ve already gotten sick of over the last 10 years. (And by we, I mean me.)
And don\'t forget the price issue. I say the fewest number of people will buy a PS3 and an Xbox 360. But there\'s no reason for anyone to not run out and pick up a Revolution, if only for the Nintendo-exclusive games some of us write off so quickly.
There\'s a reason Nintendo games outsell third party games. Part of it is name brand, but more often than not, it\'s quality software. I will gladly miss out on generic high-res shooter 6 when I can get something even remotely different for cheap on the Revolution.
See what I did there?
Remotely.
By the way, someone from Nintendo ought to send Avatarr a check. ;]
-Dan
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And you will do that 5 times a year vs. 40 times a year with the other consoles.
Why not have quality and quantity instead of just quality and being different?
If you are sick of the current model of games, play guitar hero (or Guitar Freaks). That\'s right, just because the PS3 or the 360 don\'t have a remote control for a base controller doesn\'t mean they can\'t innovate in their games.
Just so you guys know, I am really excited about the possibilities with the Revolution, I am just playing devil\'s advocate here. I think it will do really well in Japan and pretty well everywhere else, but features and quantity will reign supreme among the masses and they will buy more controllered systems than Revmoted systems.
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If Nintendo really wants to win this generation, they should employ Scary Mario©. (https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mycgiserver.com%2F%7Eblade343%2Fscarymariosmiley2.gif&hash=6acae39f36e208cf1518cf83c50d26c1472a5f17)
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Sony and Microsoft are content to rip us off for more of the same stuff we\'ve already gotten sick of over the last 10 years. (And by we, I mean me.)
you mean there wont be another mario or zelda title?
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They\'re starting to milk them more than they had been (Mario Soccer?), but there\'s a difference between a Zelda every couple years and three war games on a shelf of new releases. I look at the X360 shelf and see GRAW, Outfit and COD and I think each one looks promising on its own, but just looking at the shelf I grow tired of all three.
And, Altered, you don\'t have to extol the virtues of the other consoles to me. I\'ll own all of them.
Though I\'m skipping Guitar Hero since I don\'t know anything about playing one. I did grab DDR for GameCube, though. And I have a few EyeToy games. All for ingenuity, wherever it pops up.
Also, the Revolution will come with a standard controller (plus motion sensitivity) in order to handle conventional games. I predict you\'ll get one remote packed-in along with the normal looking shell that it fits in. Additional controllers sold separately.
-Dan
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I look at the X360 shelf and see GRAW, Outfit and COD and I think each one will be far better in the PC versions
:)
i\'m not buying a rev unless i see a blast corps remake
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Forget that. Give me a new Punch-Out!! where I hold a remote in each hand and get to swing high, low, block, and dodge.
Laugh at the idea if you want, but personally I think that\'d be bad ass.
EA thinks using the joystick to punch is immersive.. pff!
-Dan
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I look at the X360 shelf and see GRAW, Outfit and COD and I think each one will be far better in the PC versions
:)
i\'m not buying a rev unless i see a blast corps remake
Well so far I ve heard that only on XBOX360 COD2 runs at 60fps with every effect on
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Too bad Rare made Blast Corps. :(
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Well so far I ve heard that only on XBOX360 COD2 runs at 60fps with every effect on
minus anisotropic filtering
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I dont know about anisotropic filtering. I dont even know what exactly that is. I d like to be informed though :)
But still I havent heard of a PC version running at 60fps with all effects on
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what was that again?
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What did I say what did I say?
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I dont know about anisotropic filtering. I dont even know what exactly that is. I d like to be informed though
But still I havent heard of a PC version running at 60fps with all effects on
all effects? are you new to computer graphics or something?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisotropic_filtering
definition of poop
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxbox360media.ign.com%2Fxbox360%2Fimage%2Farticle%2F654%2F654986%2Fcall-of-duty-2-imagery-20050930084831966.jpg&hash=73ae212fda12d54be757d54d2a4fd217e4260141)
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^ I know it looks cool in motion as I\'ve seen it played before, but by PC standards, that really looks like sh!t
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The only thing that looks really bad about it is the limited color palette. (?)
The filtering in the shot is pretty low (at most, trilinear) and the textures are of moderately low quality. There\'s lots of aliasing.
To it\'s credit, CoD2 on X360 looks better in motion.
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Anisotropic filtering isn\'t so much obvious in motion, but to myself, it always is because my large tv just reveals all.
Good thing GRAW and Oblivion had them or I would have been pissed. CoD2 for the 360 might look good to you guys but it looked like complete shit to me. (Videophile)
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I can\'t say that MS and Sony are to blame for what other companies put out.
The consumer is to blame, after all, they bought one million copies (or very close to already) of CoD2.
GRAW is very likely to be around 400k already in the USA, etc.
The consumers are calling for the games they are getting.
Will the consumer call for Nintendo games to be played with a remote?
Will the non-consumer become the consumer?
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Graphics are important.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smbhq.com%2Fusers%2Fsprite%2Fdksheeta.gif&hash=e18e2d26cc245a6bc2abc0f31303be2a253d53eb)
Admittedly, I usually pick up the prettiest version when getting a multiplatform game.
-Dan
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Really wished you guys had Live. We\'re usually down a guy or two when we do 16 player coop in GRAW.
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I think you\'re shooting yourself in the foot if you get the console version of a PC game. You get less players, less options and very very few opportunities for expandability. You pay the same price but you get less for your money.
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Wait, are you talking to me or just saying that in general?
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oh man
that chart I posted man, refer to it for these profits
Didnt see post earlier.
Thats just a fraction of a period. Sum up the profits and the losses and you get only losses.
Also that time it was when the highly anticipated Halo2 an AAA title was released which explains it.
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all effects? are you new to computer graphics or something?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisotropic_filtering
definition of poop
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fxbox360media.ign.com%2Fxbox360%2Fimage%2Farticle%2F654%2F654986%2Fcall-of-duty-2-imagery-20050930084831966.jpg&hash=73ae212fda12d54be757d54d2a4fd217e4260141)
Thats weird. It didnt look like that at all when I saw it :confused:
It looked 10 times better
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Didnt see post earlier.
Thats just a fraction of a period. Sum up the profits and the losses and you get only losses.
I think you missed my point.
Sum up the profits and losses? Go ahead. Microsoft, in total, invested 4 billion dollars for the Xbox. 2004 alone brought in 8.8 billion.
Source:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Microsoft_invested_4_billion_USD_into_Xbox_division
http://www.forbes.com/business/global/2005/1003/036A.html
Probably.That I cant answer. But atleast Sony used their investments right generating profits.
MS didnt
You should definitely read the rest of my previous post.
My point was this statement is a complete lie.
edit
I\'d also appreciate it if you provide backing to your claims. Saying so and so did this and that without a source is pretty useless.
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so they spent 4.5 billion and collected 8.8 million?
perhaps you never played monopoly as a child
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The hell does that mean? I cleary said "go ahead" and provided some numbers.
I did nothing more.
edit
oh sweet, a typo, billion
8.8 billion
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Heh, that was a significant typo. I took it as it was written, figured they tanked 3 billion plus.
-Dan
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I think you missed my point.
Sum up the profits and losses? Go ahead. Microsoft, in total, invested 4 billion dollars for the Xbox. 2004 alone brought in 8.8 billion.
Source:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Microsoft_invested_4_billion_USD_into_Xbox_division
http://www.forbes.com/business/global/2005/1003/036A.html
You should definitely read the rest of my previous post.
My point was this statement is a complete lie.
edit
I\'d also appreciate it if you provide backing to your claims. Saying so and so did this and that without a source is pretty useless.
I think you understood wrongly the numbers in the sources you posted.
Also check date
September 28, 2005
"Since launching Xbox in 2001, the Microsoft game console project has resulted in a $4 billion loss for the company, an amount estimated to be approximately equal to 10% of Microsoft\'s total cash reserves."
4 billion lof losses arent the investments in 2001. But even if they were they would have been a fraction of the whole picture as to understand how well a product did you should take the profits & losses of the full life cycle and sum them not just the profit or losses of just one year which is only a seperate number since there are also costs not just investment.
The real picture is the result of summed up revenues minus summed up costs from the date it was launched until September of 2005.
8.8 billion alone in 2004 is just only a part of the whole picture and just the year 2004. Taking all costs and revenues until today the result is 4 billion of losses according to that article
Check the other site as well
Date of article 10.03.05
"Newer products--the Xbox videogame machine, the MSN online service, the wireless and small-business software--collectively have racked up $7 billion in losses in four years. "
Its ok though. These are common errors if you arent used to reading these numbers. Its just a matter of getting used to them.
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even still, dumping 50% of your company wide revenue into one losing division is an atrocity and i\'m shocked the shareholders let then go ahead with the x360
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Dude, 2005 was just last year. Why are you even bolding "since 2001?" 4 billion is the total result up to 2005.
The MSN online service, wireless and small business software are both different sections of the company. They should be irrelevant.
I find it highly amusing that you even add up the losses from the other portions of the company. Do you honestly want me to bring up Sony\'s losses from their other divisions, again? Because I\'ve already done that and this is just getting redundant.
Its ok though. These are common errors if you arent used to reading these numbers. Its just a matter of getting used to them.
Please don\'t say that, because you posted up a very poorly done answer.
even still, dumping 50% of your company wide revenue into one losing division is an atrocity and i\'m shocked the shareholders let then go ahead with the x360
It\'s a risk. Many companies do it.
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mm:That made me curious too.
I tried to find financial statements too about the XBOX or MS gaming division but I couldnt find anything. There are only financial statements about Microsoft\'s in general. I think that investors arent investing at divisions seperately but to MS as a whole.
I dont think an investor would have invested on the XBOX alone. That would have been a stupid decision. Some financial analysis wouldnt show XBOX as a good investment.I wanted to make a financial analysis and build a model to make predictions to see it by myself but I cuuldnt find the appropriate information.
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Are you seriously debating what the rich do with their money?
oh my, psx2central is the new gamefaqs forums
we need a dragon ball z section quick
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Dude, 2005 was just last year. Why are you even bolding "since 2001?" 4 billion is the total result up to 2005.
Exactly 4 billion losses up to 2005 which is more important and more informative than 8.8 Billion profits in just 2004. You havent posted any total result atleast up to 2006 showing profits from XBOX1
But you posted only the profits in 2004. Not even up to 2004
The MSN online service, wireless and small business software are both different sections of the company. They should be irrelevant.
I find it highly amusing that you even add up the losses from the other portions of the company. Do you honestly want me to bring up Sony\'s losses from their other divisions, again? Because I\'ve already done that and this is just getting redundant.
I agree that they are irrelevant. But what the article statement sais is that all newer products brought losses. XBOX included. I didnt state that 7 billion are thanks to XBOX only. Which it didnt. The number isnt the point here but that the XBOX also made losses
If XBOX was profitable it wouldnt have been mentioned in there because it would have misinformed investors. It would have mentioned the losses brought by other newer products with XBOX being the only newer profitable product. Which it didnt. The number isnt the point here but that the XBOX also made losses
That certain article isnt refering specifically to XBOX1\'s returns anyways. So you made the first mistake to post reduntant information not me.
Please don\'t say that, because you posted up a very poorly done answer.
I didnt post the answer. You posted the answer. Its in your own sources
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The article speaks of Microsoft as a whole. The arguement was if the Xbox system profited at all and it did.
I didnt post the answer. You posted the answer. Its in your own sources
man what
I\'ll just assume english isn\'t your first language and move on.
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Are you seriously debating what the rich do with their money?
oh my, psx2central is the new gamefaqs forums
we need a dragon ball z section quick
No I am not debating that.
I am studying these things in the university. It could be my job to make financial analysis and build models to make predictions for rich people.
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The article speaks of Microsoft as a whole. The arguement was if the Xbox system profited at all and it did.
man what
I\'ll just assume english isn\'t your first language and move on.
That article sais that XBOX made losses period.
the profits of just one year mean nothing. Especially if the years before it and after it made losses.
The result from 2001 until 2005 is what\'s important and the more reliable information. Especially for an investor.
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Exactly 4 billion losses up to 2005 which is more important and more informative than 8.8 Billion profits in just 2004. You havent posted any total result atleast up to 2006 showing profits from XBOX1
But you posted only the profits in 2004. Not even up to 2004
Do you remember what came out in 2005? Yes, the 360. Looking up sales charts just for the Xbox will be near impossible since the 360 and it\'s predecessior are lumped into the same category. Even then, they haven\'t released their fiscal results.
No I am not debating that.
I am studying these things in the university. It could be my job to make financial analysis and build models to make predictions for rich people.
You want to be a financial analyst huh? That was one of the things I studied 2 years ago.
Didn\'t see much future in that. I just chose it at a whim because, at the time, I was largely undecided and just happen to be very good at math.
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Do you remember what came out in 2005? Yes, the 360. Looking up sales charts just for the Xbox will be near impossible since the 360 and it\'s predecessior are lumped into the same category. Even then, they haven\'t released their fiscal results.
Dont complain why I mentioned how well the XBOX did from 2001 till 2005 then
You want to be a financial analyst huh? That was one of the things I studied 2 years ago.
Didn\'t see much future in that. I just chose it at a whim because, at the time, I was largely undecided and just happen to be very good at math.
You missed. Its pretty interesting really
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That article sais that XBOX made losses period.
the profits of just one year mean nothing. Especially if the years before it and after it made losses.
The result from 2001 until 2005 is what\'s important and the more reliable information. Especially for an investor.
Let\'s make some things clear here.
Say there is a 4 year period in a companies product. First and second year, nothing but losses. In the third year, the company rakes in a huge amount of profit and invests it on a new product the following year. Does that negate it from being a profit to you?
Dont complain why I mentioned how well the XBOX did from 2001 till 2005 then
huh?
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Let\'s make some things clear here.
Say there is a 4 year period in a companies product. In the third year, the company rakes in a huge amount of profits and invests it on a new product the following year. Does that negate it from being a profit to you?
I ll continue the question to see where I am getting to. Lets say that company invests the money that made from the fourth year into the fifth year and makes losses.
What will this mean to the investor?
Also the prediction models and analysis will take place before the fifth year to make an estimation on how well the product will do. These models take all information available from all yeares and are being tested for significance to see if the product is indeed doing well or if indeed will continue to do well. A profit of just one year doesnt say much.
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Let\'s make some things clear here.
huh?
Dude, 2005 was just last year. Why are you even bolding "since 2001?" 4 billion is the total result up to 2005.
Course of Profits/losses of 2001-2-3-4-5 (then 360 came thats why since 2001-2005)
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Also the prediction models and analysis will take place before the fifth year to make an estimation on how well the product will do. These models take all information available from all yeares and are being tested for significance to see if the product is indeed doing well or if indeed will continue to do well. A profit of just one year doesnt say much.
Even if the profit overlapses that of the two previous years?
I ll continue the question to see where I am getting to. Lets say that company invests the money that made from the fourth year into the fifth year and makes losses.
What will this mean to the investor?
They should have known that because expecting profits in a new products first year is overreaching. Especially if they plan to sell at a loss, which many high profile products do.
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Even if the profit overlapses that of the two previous years?
It may seem illogical but sometimes yes. This depends on the overal significance of the factors that made the product profitable all of the sudden. But as it seems 2005 overlapped 2004\'s profits. I think that this may mean that these factors werent significant.Thats probably why MS expected losses for 2004 as well.
They should have known that because expecting profits in a new products first year is overreaching. Especially if they plan to sell at a loss, which many high profile products do.
Its true I 100% agree. The first year may not be a good indication.
But if it makes more losses than it is expected for a healthy product then this will show in the products later course.
Both good and bad products(not necessarilly saying that XBOX is a bad product) of the same kind (like consoles) will make losses when they launch. But most likely the bad will have more losses compared to the better products. To get a good idea of how well the product will do, you have to take all competiting products and see relative performance in the market.
edit: as it seems probably XBOX didnt perform well since the fifth year did worse than the fourth. Both far from launch
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ehh
Seems like we came to an agreement. Just in time for lunch.
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heh glad we solved this misunderstanding :)
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:gfight:
-Dan
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So you are jealous?
Here lets play together :gfight:
:p
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The arguement was if the Xbox system profited at all and it did.
umm, no it didn\'t
it fucking tanked
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great job looking for a single sentence you did not agree with and commenting on it, therefore ignoring what we just said
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looking? it stood out like a sore thumb
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Wait, are you talking to me or just saying that in general?
general.
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I thought this was a topic about PS3 vs. 360. hmm, guess I was wrong.
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I thought this was a topic about PS3 vs. 360. hmm, guess I was wrong.
A LOT of people here are all over the revolution for whatever reason. Any topic about next gen, someone will throw in the revolution and the rest will run with it.
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even then I am fine about that, but somehow we are talking now about profits for XBox, etc.
Let\'s talk about the actual debate of PS3 vs. 360, the games, the features, etc.
I think that would be far more interesting for me.
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Revolution keeps coming up because frankly I\'m not sure if I\'d even buy an Xbox 360 or PS3. At least not early.
I\'m sure a few others feel the same way.
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because of the expense? which is reasonable. Im already saving up for a PS3, but theres no way in hell im buying the first consoles. I learned my lesson with the ps2, and even the 360 problems i heard about. Ill be getting mine in january or whenever the second batch comes out.
I just have no reason to be excited about the revolution..you can play the old games, great. But i have a friend with a working nintendo (of course you have to mess with it because of the green screen,lol..good times), and a super nes. Never got into those other consoles it plays. Outside of that, i dont see its performance being worth it, and from the sounds of it you have to move around and stuff to play..not my cup of tea.
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The fun has been sucked out of old games for me. Almost 99% of all games two generations back are unplayable to me. Only the classics remain and essencially, that is all people will buy (download) anyway, coincidentally they are the same games remade, repackaged, and republished every generations.
Shouts of "I want to play R-Type! Good thing REV is going to have TG-16 support!" Obiviously have forgotten all those R-Type ports from every generation since then. SMB 1,2, 3, SMW, SM64, etc. have all been ported to current consoles. Metroid, SFII, Final Fantasy games, etc. have all been ported since their incarnations to new systems and will almost definitely be ported in the future unless Nintendo signs these companies into some sort of "forever exclusive" contract, which would be really stupid for them to do in most cases. In other words, I am not excited about the Virtual Console thing, I have all of the NES classics, I have an SMS with 60 games, Genesis, TG-16, etc. I never play them except sometimes to hear the music and try out old skip level tricks, etc. But they just aren\'t as fun to play. Unless...they add online play and voice features for the games. Nothing more, don\'t touch the gameplay, just add in online and voice and everything will be great.
If you bypass PS3 and 360, you are going to miss out on dozens of original (both in concept and IP) games that won\'t be on Revolution. If you guys consider yourselves gamers, saying things like that sounds really stupid. Something semi-reasonable to say would be: "I am going to get 360/PS3 and Revolution, each for their merits and different strengths" That sounds alot better.
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AlteredBeast: Oh, my brother and I are considering the pre-order of 3 or 4 PS3\'s at launch and possibly keeping one. X360 if it drops to $200-250 and starts offering AAA games that I didn\'t already upgrade my computer to play.
I never said that X360/PS3 didn\'t have anything good, or anything I want. I just explained that this is a 3-horse race and you\'re bound to hear about Revolution in 360/PS3 threads and PS3 in 360/Rev threads and so forth.
And yes, the fact of the matter is that we don\'t have a ton of money to throw around at $400+ consoles. The most expensive console/handheld I ever bought was the PSP at $250, and I\'m not going to top that. Revolution\'s low price and 100% GCN compatibility are major selling points to me, on top of the fact that Nintendo is my preferred brand. Virtual Console? Fuck it, I might never even use it. :)
I waited for the price drop on Xbox, and I\'ve waited on price drops for virtually every console I\'d ever bought up until the Game Boy Advance came out.
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whelp..my motto has always been one console per gen...i really don\'t understand why people buy all three when all three basically have the same titles, save except for a few exclusives...i\'ve always been a ps fan why?...the games of course..two...i just luv the controller,..i\'ve tried to play with gamnescube\'s and xbox\'s controller,..i just didn\'t like it...at this point there is only one game that has my interest on the 360...and that\'s gears of war,..but one game cannot warrant any purchase from me...
even tho i feel microsoft is gonna come on strong this time around...i still feel sony might come out on top as far as having the bigger library, but it will be awfully close...and i too do not plan on buying ps3 from the jumpoff..these console prices are outta control,..sheeit with the way people are gettin\' layed off left and right, who\'s gonna have money to actually buy this stuff?...
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What games do you own on your PS2 btw clips?
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At first I was not even going to get a ps3 right away because of cost. But now I feel like I want one real bad. The ps3 just sounds so bad ass. Sure a lot of people here are jumping on the nintendo bandwaggon.
When it all boils down to having the best all around games hands down that will be the ps3. Sure mario is great. And I loved it in the 80\'s. But now the excitemnet is not as high as it once was. And mario 64 was the last mario game that I actually thought was great.
And if graphics didn\'t mean nothing and it was all about the games these hardcore freaks wouldn\'t spend so much money on graphic cards. I don\'t see myself ever buying a nintendo system long as sony continues to make consoles. If nintendo went the way of the dinosaur it would not bother me much and I know they would just make third party games for sony.
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Quddus: I agree, Nintendo is just Mario. Hey, I respect your opinion but it sounds like an outsider\'s.
Clips: 2 consoles is perfectly acceptable, IMO. 3, eh, if the user has the time.
I have GCN/Xbox, but I\'d love to have a PS2. Hell, I have the money... so why not? Well, it\'s still costs too much (for all intents and purposes, PS2 should be $100 now but it isn\'t) and there\'s just too much to play.
My leisure time is already swamped with my consoles, PC, and handhelds. This is why the PS3 is important to me, because it\'ll let me play some of the hottest new games plus the old ones I missed.
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What games do you own on your PS2 btw clips?
too many...
:silent hill 2, 3, 4.
:espn 2k5 (football)
:god of war
:res evil 4
: the thing
:beyond good & evil
:the suffering
:kingdom hearts 2
: raw vs smackdown 2006
:devil may cry
:indigo prophecy
:Run Like Hell
:Zone of the enders 2nd runner
: the bouncer
:gta san adreas...gta 3
:espn nbs 2k5
:fight night rd 2
:rise to honor
:bloodrayne 2
:shadow of the colossus
i think that\'s all of \'em...:fro:
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too many...
:silent hill 2, 3, 4.
:espn 2k5 (football)
:god of war
:res evil 4
: the thing
:beyond good & evil
:the suffering
:kingdom hearts 2
: raw vs smackdown 2006
:devil may cry
:indigo prophecy
:Run Like Hell
:Zone of the enders 2nd runner
: the bouncer
:gta san adreas...gta 3
:espn nbs 2k5
:fight night rd 2
:rise to honor
:bloodrayne 2
:shadow of the colossus
i think that\'s all of \'em...:fro:
Nice collection. As you can see though most are exclusives
Thats why some buy more than just one console. ;)
Exckusives are many and they really add value.
I wanted all consoles too but like always because I dont have the cash to spend for three consoles I choose the best. Which was the PS2 this gen. As you said its got the biggest library and the most exclusives
What?NO METAL GEAR SOLID IN THERE?
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I bought all three for their respective strengths, exclusives, and definitive versions of multi-console editions.
I am, after all, a gamer. And that is being broke, btw, just knowing how to budget my money.
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Xbox 360 is already kind of dead in the water IMO. They hype has really died down since it was released.
I really hope however that the PS3 does some form of anisotropic filtering.
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where do you live, I might ask?
It is only picking up steam in the states, like I said, they sell them as fast as they get them and the games are selling really well, with CoD2 probably passing 1 million in March, Fight Night 3 probably around 400k or so, Graw probably around 500k (sold 270k in it\'s first week), Oblivion surely selling a couple hundred thousand, too. UK, Germany, and France, it seems more or less the same story. Only Japan is it tanking wildly. It even had the most successful launch ever for a console in Australia. I know that that isn\'t too impressive a figure, but it shows that the hype isn\'t being hurt and it is selling well. It had it\'s most successful month post launch, surely this past month. I don\'t know what is coming out in April, but if it is anything quality, they should be able to continue these high sales for the next few months.
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1mil is nothing to brag about
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It kinda is anymore... That would equate to $60 million in sales, which has to mean some quantifiable profit...
-Dan
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Nice collection. As you can see though most are exclusives
Thats why some buy more than just one console. ;)
Exckusives are many and they really add value.
I wanted all consoles too but like always because I dont have the cash to spend for three consoles I choose the best. Which was the PS2 this gen. As you said its got the biggest library and the most exclusives
What?NO METAL GEAR SOLID IN THERE?
hmmm..exclusives..point well taken....as far as metal gear goes i had both metal gear 2 & 3 and traded them in...as good as 3 was, and even tho i finished it, i was just frustrated by the camera, and i\'m kinda ready for snake to evolve a bit in the gameplay dept...
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Go for Subsistence ;)
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1mil is nothing to brag about
it is 5 months after a console comes out. Sales are generally on the downswing again, only big big releases break 1 million now, it seems.
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when it\'s one of 2-3 average titles, it certainly isn\'t
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I\'d say it\'s still a noteworthy accomplishment, but I\'d wager you hit the nail as to the reason it happened.
Call of Duty had the right marketing with no competition. A launch day GRAW and some ads would\'ve really held it back, it seems.
-Dan
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It most likely is holding it back now, GRAW is the much better game and has been selling really well since it has come out, especially for being a March release, usually a pretty dead period for games.
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Hi AlteredBeast :)
XBox 360 is a great console...now let\'s wait and see what PS3 is capable of...
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when it\'s one of 2-3 average titles, it certainly isn\'t
I think 1mil is a great number considering that the XBOX360 is still early in its life which means small userbase.
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it\'s new (hello economics!)
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it\'s new (hello economics!)
ahm...so?
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if you have to ask.....
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perhaps more than the sales, the company should be happy with the tie-in ratio of 360s to CoD2. It has been selling as well as the company can hope for with the userbase that there is in the US of 360. Of course, like I said, that has changed now that GRAW, a far better product has come out and is selling really well.
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if you have to ask.....
please explain?
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Only read a couple pages (not ready 19 pages this late at night, lol). Funny to see how some of these predictions came true and others were so far off. I'm sure we'll be doing this again when PS5 is out and we look back at PS4 predictions vs XBone.
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that is one heck a long thread. i just read and skimmed through the first couple of pages than i stopped. but the first thread quoted a site that predicted the ps3 will have slightly more than 50% market share, while xbox360 and nintendo wii (codename revolution) will have around 28% and 21% market share. it turns out that the wii has the biggest market share of about 40% while ps3 and xbox360 are roughly a tie with about 30% market share so far.
So the prediction was off. speaking of which, who here want to predicts the market share for this gen consoles (wiiU, ps4, and xbox one) for the next 5 years?
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I don't think the wiiu will make it 5 years.
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yeah, i recently heard nintendo is going to make a new hardware due to the low sales of the wiiU.