PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Paul2 on August 21, 2006, 01:26:20 AM
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How big is your subwoofer? It could be a hometheater subwoofer or a pc subwoofer.
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My car sub is 10inch, but i built the perfect ltr ported box to suit, most people buy a 12inch sub, go out and buy a 12inch sub box, but the litre size to the sub is totally off, so it sounds F@#K#D. Mine doesn\'t, i\'ve measured its response and got it just about perfect to teh manufacture\'s figures.
My PC sub is just a 8inch active powered sub, does the job.
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SIze doesn\'t really matter. I have a 1000 watt 8". Although I will be getting a servo driven one with my next setup.
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Mine is 10". My subwoofer is also 10"... It has 250W and it does a nice job.
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I have two 12s in my car.
I have a subwoofer hooked up to my tv, but it\'s probably not much to speak of. Adds a little rumble when I crank it up, tho.
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SIze doesn\'t really matter. I have a 1000 watt 8". Although I will be getting a servo driven one with my next setup.
same can be said for power. It\'s the driver / cone quality that makes the diff, not power or size.
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BS on the power thing b/c without a nice RMS rating you wont move much air. you are correct about the quality of the cone though. Dont forget quality VC\'s
car=3 10\'s wired Parallel into 1ohm
house=1 15 CV
pc-----none..monitor speakers.:)
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just a POS sony for my "home theatre"....
in my studio I have twin 12" in a kickerbox with a 250W amp that I only use when recording da homiez...they always wanna hear dat shit bumpin\', and then I have to turn it off and remix it when they leave so it doesn\'t sound like shit. They never know.
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I have an 8in on my computer.
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car is 12" ED-a 1200w @ 1ohm.
home is 10" Kenwood pos 150w @ 8hm.
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same can be said for power. It\'s the driver / cone quality that makes the diff, not power or size.
ACtually it\'s power and size. If you have a larger sub you don\'t need the power. That\'s the only reason mine is a high powered amp. That\'s all I was saying.
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and also, what are the chances that other people around you think that your shitty music is worth haering your fucking trunk rattle to.
goddamn, i hate that shit.
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and also, what are the chances that other people around you think that your shitty music is worth haering your fucking trunk rattle to.
goddamn, i hate that shit.
fuck what they think. when they pay for my shit I *might* consider them.
trunk rattle is something that can be easily fixed, most just don\'t take those steps.
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If by "subwoofer" you mean "penis," it\'s 6".
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ACtually it\'s power and size. If you have a larger sub you don\'t need the power. That\'s the only reason mine is a high powered amp. That\'s all I was saying.
i\'m doing audio at school, part of my module. (designing speakers, amps etc) Bigger the sub, bigger the voice coil needed to drive it = more power it can handle. But good quality subs have voice coils and cones that are designed to use less power on bigger subs hence why i said power and size isn\'t everything.
My car sub is only 160WRMS, but it cains the F##K out of my 250WRMS sub, simply because it was designed better, used lighter cone, lighter coil, and more free suspension = less power needed = more mass moved.
Click on images for specs.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaycar.com.au%2Fproducts_uploaded%2FproductLarge_6797.jpg&hash=e2c7b7d09bf8497889a6ea9910d199bcaafd6996)
(http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=CS2366&CATID=&keywords=subwoofer&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=)
what i replaced it with
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaycar.com.au%2Fproducts_uploaded%2FproductLarge_245.jpg&hash=ab98abc6f3b559b19d7684b6ad6b8631d4dcd158) (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=CW2137&CATID=&keywords=woofer&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=)
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so what do you think about these aluminum cones? Personally, I love them. Infinity and audiobahn have a hold on me. not to mentione that six sided xtant.
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haven\'t had enough experience to really have a answer, but from the first sub i used above, i found it lacking. It just didn\'t have the response i wanted in a sub. On very low Freq levels it cained, but for anything else it was lacking.
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haven\'t had enough experience to really have a answer, but from the first sub i used above, i found it lacking. It just didn\'t have the response i wanted in a sub. On very low Freq levels it cained, so was great for most techno, but for anything else it was lacking. The cone just couldn\'t move enough to give good response.
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I just checked my subwoofer specs and realized that mine woofer is actually 10 inches, not 12 inches and i voted 12 inches. All this time, I thought mine woofer was 12" big. My woofer\'s amplifier have a power rating of 200 Watts RMS and according to the specs, my subwoofer bass can go as deep as 25 Hz +/- 2 dB. The entire frequency response is 25 - 150 Hz +/- 2 dB...
I guess the benefits of designing a bigger woofer over smaller one is that it is easier to design one with deeper bass, open, airy, and cleaner sound with lesser disortion than smaller woofer.
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Bigger woofers have lower freq response, but they tend to be slower at responding. That\'s pretty much why i wouldn\'t bother going above 12inch myself. Some say at low frequencies it doesn\'t really matter. I personally think it does sound different and tends to sound more wofled and droned out. A crisper sub always sounds better then one that just sounds like its having problems keeping up.
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trunk rattle is something that can be easily fixed
How?
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some cars it can be fixed by simply adjusting the bump-stops on the underside of the trunk lid. More commonly, pick up sound dyna-mat or ex.
There are a few more tricks but all depends on the make of the car.
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Yea, now that I think about it, my rattle is more in the rear bumper. I found by putting weight on the bumper, it stopped. But I don\'t know how to translate that to a fix. Oh well.
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turn your stereo down and be considerate of other human beings?
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I do that when I pass young kids or the elderly. Or cops.
I don\'t crank it that often, but when I do, you can go screw with your sensitive ears and whiney attitude.
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Bigger woofers have lower freq response, but they tend to be slower at responding. That\'s pretty much why i wouldn\'t bother going above 12inch myself. Some say at low frequencies it doesn\'t really matter. I personally think it does sound different and tends to sound more wofled and droned out. A crisper sub always sounds better then one that just sounds like its having problems keeping up.
Can you elaborate when you say bigger woofers are slower at responding? How so?
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Yea, now that I think about it, my rattle is more in the rear bumper. I found by putting weight on the bumper, it stopped. But I don\'t know how to translate that to a fix. Oh well.
Put some foam strips behind your tag. That will kill alot of noise.
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Well, if you want to make something that goes down, to say 10 HZ, it needs to make 10 back-and-forths per second, but the problem is the wave needs to be much \'larger\' if you will for low frequency, so the travel on the woofer must be much larger (which is hard to do accuratly). Usually big woofers are made for big travel/power, but not super-accuracy, so a small woofer which can still go pretty damn low will do a \'better job\'.
You can get higher quality woofers over 10" but the price goes up really fast.
Generally 15" and 18" drivers are only found at movie theatres and music concerts, you are giving up a \'good quality sound\' for earth-rumbling bass with such speakers.
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Can you elaborate when you say bigger woofers are slower at responding? How so?
Um, I thought that was common knowledge. :p
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Well, if you want to make something that goes down, to say 10 HZ, it needs to make 10 back-and-forths per second, but the problem is the wave needs to be much \'larger\' if you will for low frequency, so the travel on the woofer must be much larger (which is hard to do accuratly). Usually big woofers are made for big travel/power, but not super-accuracy, so a small woofer which can still go pretty damn low will do a \'better job\'.
You can get higher quality woofers over 10" but the price goes up really fast.
I disagree with you there. Having a subwoofer that can goes down to 10 Hz is overkill since that\'s beyond the the hearing level of the average human beings and unecessary. I disagree with you about bigger subwoofers not being super accurate compare to smaller subs.
Its true that higher quality woofers that are big with deep bass are expensive. But rightfully so.
Generally 15" and 18" drivers are only found at movie theatres and music concerts, you are giving up a \'good quality sound\' for earth-rumbling bass with such speakers.
i think you got confused here when you mention subwoofers with speakers...subwoofers are invented mainly for low frequency effects, aka bass because speakers can\'t pump out as deep bass since that can require very big speakers and they are very expensive which makes it uncessary to have such speakers. That\'s why subwoofers are invented to pump out those deep bass only and nothing else.
While speakers are mainly for middle frequency to much higher frequency response as much as 20,000 Hz, and I believe around 10 kHz - 20 kHz are the high frequency response, aka treble.
So, say a big speaker that have a frequency response of 50 Hz - 20,000 Hz, you can listen to musics and movies where it will playback most of the frequency that the human ears can hear. But what about low frequency response? Most human ears can hear as low as 20 Hz, but the speakers can\'t go that low though. So, you will need a subwoofer to playback the LFE. Most subwoofers don\'t go higher than 200 Hz because that is uncessary because subwoofers are invented to playback the low frequency effects.
If you have a subwoofer that can go down to 20 Hz as its deepest bass, and its highest frequency is 150 Hz. By doing crossover say at 50 Hz between the speaker and the subwoofer, you will get the frequency response of 20 Hz - 20,000 Hz. Where from 20 Hz - 50 Hz is created by the subwoofer, and 50 Hz - 20,000 Hz is created by the speakers.
You can do crossover between the sub and the speakers at any frequency that you like between 50 Hz - 150 Hz as an exmaple. since the example subwoofer can go up to 150 Hz, but don\'t do crossover lower than 50 Hz since that\'s where the speakers limit for deep bass is.
This will benefits both movies and music. I think many music weren\'t recorded with bass as deep as movies, but it wouldn\'t hurt to have a deep bass subwoofer.
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Frequencies is basically isolations per second, basically how many times in a second the subs voice coil is energised to move the cone back and forth. Large subs are slow at responding, they tend to move out fast enough, but have problems returning to state quickly. So the next cycle is already starting when its moving back, hence why the sound ends up not crisp but stays deep simply because more air is being moved. I hope this kinda helps paul, i\'m in a rush so can\'t really go into depth.
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thats actually a good answer period. quick or not.
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I disagree with you there. Having a subwoofer that can goes down to 10 Hz is overkill since that\'s beyond the the hearing level of the average human beings and unecessary. I disagree with you about bigger subwoofers not being super accurate compare to smaller subs.
Its true that higher quality woofers that are big with deep bass are expensive. But rightfully so.
Go and price a really good, accurate 18" sub, and see if it\'s practical, or if you can only find one that is for \'rumble\' and less accurate. At 18" a high end driver would cost a couple orders of magnitude more than the same woofer built at 10". In any event any driver bigger than 10" is a waste of money for in-home venues.
As for the 10Hz thing, I simply chose an easy number to explain. Yes, I know most woofers are 20-200 Hz or within that range (I see 40-120 a lot), but they do make woofers that go lower, and while these are inaudible, they create infrasound, which you can still feel but not hear. A famous example was the movie Earthquake in 1974 which had such speakers shake the theatre at key points in the movie.
i think you got confused here when you mention subwoofers with speakers...subwoofers are invented mainly for low frequency effects, aka bass because speakers can\'t pump out as deep bass since that can require very big speakers and they are very expensive which makes it uncessary to have such speakers. That\'s why subwoofers are invented to pump out those deep bass only and nothing else.
While speakers are mainly for middle frequency to much higher frequency response as much as 20,000 Hz, and I believe around 10 kHz - 20 kHz are the high frequency response, aka treble.
We were clearly talking about subs (which is a type of speaker, limited to low frequency) for this whole thread, and the sentence in front of the word speaker. At best it\'s understood that I\'m still talking about subs, at worst it\'s a recognizable typo, don\'t get so picky.
So, say a big speaker that have a frequency response of 50 Hz - 20,000 Hz, you can listen to musics and movies where it will playback most of the frequency that the human ears can hear. But what about low frequency response? Most human ears can hear as low as 20 Hz, but the speakers can\'t go that low though. So, you will need a subwoofer to playback the LFE. Most subwoofers don\'t go higher than 200 Hz because that is uncessary because subwoofers are invented to playback the low frequency effects.
If you have a subwoofer that can go down to 20 Hz as its deepest bass, and its highest frequency is 150 Hz. By doing crossover say at 50 Hz between the speaker and the subwoofer, you will get the frequency response of 20 Hz - 20,000 Hz. Where from 20 Hz - 50 Hz is created by the subwoofer, and 50 Hz - 20,000 Hz is created by the speakers.
You can do crossover between the sub and the speakers at any frequency that you like between 50 Hz - 150 Hz as an exmaple. since the example subwoofer can go up to 150 Hz, but don\'t do crossover lower than 50 Hz since that\'s where the speakers limit for deep bass is.
This will benefits both movies and music. I think many music weren\'t recorded with bass as deep as movies, but it wouldn\'t hurt to have a deep bass subwoofer.
Fair enough, didn\'t need the whole explanation of speakers and crossovers, but whatever.
Here\'s a picture!
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F5%2F5b%2FWooferzone.jpg&hash=23e01915982fce002d6be492409f9b7d5e4457d3)
The chart defines the general operating ranges of different sized woofers. The green area represents the optimal woofer range while the yellow represents the extended range. The purple area represents the music range of almost all instruments. The lighter purple areas extend the instrument range to include rarely played notes, say the first and last 10 keys on the piano. Comparing the instrument versus driver ranges, one can get an idea of the speaker building problem: no woofer does everything well.
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Go and price a really good, accurate 18" sub, and see if it\'s practical, or if you can only find one that is for \'rumble\' and less accurate. At 18" a high end driver would cost a couple orders of magnitude more than the same woofer built at 10". In any event any driver bigger than 10" is a waste of money for in-home venues.
I still don\'t understand how this makes bigger subs less accurate than smaller subs...
As for the 10Hz thing, I simply chose an easy number to explain. Yes, I know most woofers are 20-200 Hz or within that range (I see 40-120 a lot), but they do make woofers that go lower, and while these are inaudible, they create infrasound, which you can still feel but not hear. A famous example was the movie Earthquake in 1974 which had such speakers shake the theatre at key points in the movie.
they do make woofers that go lower, but anything lower than 20 Hz usually can\'t be heard but felt like you said. Your 10 Hz is overkill. the 40 Hz in 40- 120 Hz is still not as deep as I would like, so again, having a subwoofer than can go as low as 20 Hz shouldn\'t hurt.
Here\'s a picture!
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F5%2F5b%2FWooferzone.jpg&hash=23e01915982fce002d6be492409f9b7d5e4457d3)
That picture link of your have helps back me up on why it\'s better to have a big sub that can go as low as 20 Hz.
Here is your LInk (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=woofer&gwp=13):
According to your link: Here is what its said....
[COLOR="SeaGreen"]woofer[/COLOR]
Large loudspeaker designed primarily to reproduce low frequency audio signals.
[COLOR="Cyan"]Frequency ranges[/COLOR]
Humans can hear down to around 20 Hertz. A loudspeaker that can produce bass down to 45 Hertz will sound full range to most people. Many small loudspeakers are designed to produce bass down to around 80-100 Hertz because it is assumed the end user will be using a subwoofer to cover the bottom 2 octaves. But to accurately produce the bottom octaves, a woofer must be large enough to move an appropriate volume of air for a given room. The larger the room, the larger the woofer will have to be to fill the room.
Note that many inexpensive subwoofers are designed to give up on the bottom octave (20-40 Hertz) and sound deep by playing the second octave (40-80 Hertz) louder. It is easy to confuse loud bass with deep bass.
The chart below defines the general operating ranges of different sized woofers. The green area represents the optimal woofer range while the yellow represents the extended range. The purple area represents the music range of almost all instruments. The lighter purple areas extend the instrument range to include rarely played notes, say the first and last 10 keys on the piano. Comparing the instrument versus driver ranges, one can get an idea of the speaker building problem: no woofer does everything well.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.answers.com%2Fmain%2Fcontent%2Fwp%2Fen%2F5%2F5b%2FWooferzone.jpg&hash=310d2f72f6cfdedfd722c5fc38a446b643493fe8)
[COLOR="Cyan"]Hertz and how it relates to woofers[/COLOR]
For woofers, Hertz is the number of times the cone of the woofer goes in and out per second. So at 20 Hertz, the cone is going in and out 20 times every second. At 20,000 Hertz (often written as 20k Hz) the cone is going in and out 20,000 times per second. The faster the cone moves, the higher the pitch. The farther in and out the cone moves in each cycle, the louder it sounds.
With a little logic, we can surmise that a big heavy woofer cone is not going to get to 20,000 in-out "cycles" per second (at least not sounding very good), nor is a tiny tweeter going to push much air at 20 cycles per second. So we build woofers and tweeters to handle each part of the job.
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So, as you can see, big subwoofer is more suited for reproducing deep bass while it seems like smaller woofer are more suited to produce higher frequency range according to your link and picture. As you can see, the smaller the woofer is judging from your picture, the better it can produce high frequency sound, and those small woofers are only design on speakers while big woofers are design for subwoofers...
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I still don\'t understand how this makes bigger subs less accurate than smaller subs...
i explained earlier pretty simply why bigger subs are less accurate then smaller ones. read up a few posts.
Paul don\'t confuse woofers with tweeters, two different things. Sub-Woofers are only for low range frequencies. Nothing more, Midrange are for midrange frequencies, tweeters being high frequencies.
little image to help clearify it.
6x9 3-way speaker
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fakamaipix.crutchfield.com%2Fgraphics%2Finfolib%2Fcarlib%2Fspeakers-glossary-3way.jpg&hash=3207c2a9a6426f9f220f6ff52a9d3329bdf47ae7)
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as you said, subwoofers are only for low range frequencies. So, bigger sub with bigger woofer should be able produce deeper bass than smaller sub. I am not saying smaller sub can\'t get deeper bass, its just that its harder and i doubt it can get the bass more deeper has the sub been bigger.
Mid range and high frequencies made by tweeters are only found in speakers, not subwoofers. And we are talking about subwoofers here, aren\'t we?
So, I still don\'t understand why is that smaller subwoofer is give "better quality sound" than bigger subs? By better sound? Can you guys elaborate it more? Do you mean smaller subs can get deeper bass than bigger subs? If so, I disagree.
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read above for F@#K SHAKE "Shakes fist"
here, i\'ll post it for you again.
"Frequencies is basically isolations per second, basically how many times in a second the subs voice coil is energised to move the cone back and forth. Large subs are slow at responding, they tend to move out fast enough, but have problems returning to state quickly. So the next cycle is already starting when its moving back, hence why the sound ends up not crisp but stays deep simply because more air is being moved. I hope this kinda helps paul, i\'m in a rush so can\'t really go into depth."
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Okay...not sure I understand completely, but shouldn\'t deeper bass be better? You mentioned that big sub isn\'t crisp but stays deep compare to smaller subs. I am not sure I understand the crisp part, but again, shouldn\'t the deeper bass is what we want out of the sub?
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Okay...not sure I understand completely, but shouldn\'t deeper bass be better? You mentioned that big sub isn\'t crisp but stays deep compare to smaller subs. I am not sure I understand the crisp part, but again, shouldn\'t the deeper bass is what we want out of the sub?
Yeah, but we also want accurate deep bass. Hence the reason we don\'t buy 18" subs with 60W amps.
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who is forcing you to buy 18" sub as they are very expensive and not necessary for small bedroom or living room. Who says 18" sub only have 60 Watts RMS amplifier? They can have as much as 1,000 Watts RMS or more, hence another reason why they cost a lot. Believe me, if a big sub like the 18" you mentioned can produce bass as deep as 16 Hz with 1,000 Watts RMS, it will sounds a lot better than 8" bass with 1,000 Watts RMS where it couldn\'t get the bass no deeper than 28 Hz as an example...Not to mention they produce deeper bass, powerful spl (sound pressure level) with very little THD distortion than the smaller one be able to.
I am just saying that bigger woofer, for instance, the 18" woofer can produce deeper bass, lesser THD noise distortion, where the smaller one, for instance, 10" won\'t be able to produce without having a much higher amount of THD distortion. If that\'s not accuracy, then I don\'t know what is.
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Okay...not sure I understand completely, but shouldn\'t deeper bass be better? You mentioned that big sub isn\'t crisp but stays deep compare to smaller subs. I am not sure I understand the crisp part, but again, shouldn\'t the deeper bass is what we want out of the sub?
Well, you\'re not getting the picture / understanding the basics of speakers.
Sound is about clarity. How quickly a voice coil can move the cone effects sound greatly (since this is what creates sound) if it sounds shit, it is shit. Large subs suffer from certain problems, to avoid this you\'re paying big bucks, for good subs and normally D-Class amps. So it’s not feasible to bother with it when u can just get 2 x 10\'\' or 2 x 12\'\' etc. That’s for cars, if it was a theatre system I wouldn’t bother with anything over 10\'\'. I’d rather 2 x 10\'\' then one large sub. Humans hear from 20hz to 20khz. Theres no real point in having subs running under 20hz besides to "feel" it. You\'d get just as much out of 10\'\' - 12\'\' subs and still feel it.
anyway, http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm, this may help.
ohh and paul. Sub-Woofers are a type of speaker.
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ohh and paul. Sub-Woofers are a type of speaker.
Thank you for saying that, I was going to but I think he would have argued with me. (Just like when I pointed that out last time)
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Okay...not sure I understand completely, but shouldn\'t deeper bass be better? You mentioned that big sub isn\'t crisp but stays deep compare to smaller subs. I am not sure I understand the crisp part, but again, shouldn\'t the deeper bass is what we want out of the sub?
So you can\'t tell the difference between sloppy bass and tight bass when listening? This is why i prefer 3 10\'s or 2 nice exspensive 12\'s in a mono load. I can get decent SQ while still keeping a lovely amount of SPL
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Humans hear from 20hz to 20khz. Theres no real point in having subs running under 20hz besides to "feel" it. You\'d get just as much out of 10\'\' - 12\'\' subs and still feel it.
I never said to get a big sub to run under 20 Hz, where you had pointed out is just to feel the frequency. But there are some people that have a good hearing that can hear the frequency lower than 20 Hz, as much as 16 Hz...again, I never said or recommend anyone to get a very big sub to hear the frequency lower than 20 Hz.
I always get the impression that it\'s easier to get deeper bass from bigger sub than smaller sub. So, i said before and you pointed out, humans can hear as low as 20 Hz. Some can hear lower than 20 Hz, but that\'s beside the point. Which is why I thought it\'s better to get a 15" driver sub to get bass as low as 20 Hz than smaller sub, say like 12" or 10", or even 8". Because I alway get the impression 10" sub or smaller can\'t get bass down to 20 Hz. Just last night, I did a little research and found out that I was wrong. That a single 10" sub driver can pull off 20 Hz +/- 1 dB frequency with little distortion at quite loud SPL. So, after reading that, I was very surprised to find out 10" sub can still get bass as deep as 20 Hz. So, I guess you have some valid points there about not going over 10" or even 12" subwoofer for most moderate size hometheater...since those size are adequate enough to get bass down to 20 Hz...
anyway, http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm, this may help.
ohh and paul. Sub-Woofers are a type of speaker.
Good link. I learned something new reading that link. I never said subwoofers are a type of speaker. FatalXception said that, and later he said he made a typo. scroll up and read what he wrote earlier. Maybe I wrote big woofers are for handling small frequency while small woofers are for producing higher frequency...I guess I should have wrote tweeters there. But isn\'t tweeter is a small type of woofer? at least that what is looks like according to fatalXception link...
Maybe I didn\'t write clear enough to clarify what i am trying to say and my English is not that good as it\'s my 2nd language.
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Ahhh...the old days of low frequency base from old school rap like LL Cool J and 2 Live Crew played in crappy vibrating Tercels driving by.
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^ i\'m in danger of being included in that stereotype. my audio system is worth more than the car its in. :ohnoes:
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who is forcing you to buy 18" sub as they are very expensive and not necessary for small bedroom or living room. Who says 18" sub only have 60 Watts RMS amplifier?
Duh. I was exaggerating. :)
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I never said subwoofers are a type of speaker. FatalXception said that, and later he said he made a typo. scroll up and read what he wrote earlier. Maybe I wrote big woofers are for handling small frequency while small woofers are for producing higher frequency...I guess I should have wrote tweeters there. But isn\'t tweeter is a small type of woofer? at least that what is looks like according to fatalXception link...
Maybe I didn\'t write clear enough to clarify what i am trying to say and my English is not that good as it\'s my 2nd language.
i know u never said they\'re a type of speaker, i did. Sub-woofers are a type of speaker. Tweeters aren\'t a type of woofer, they\'re a tweeter. Woofer = low freq levels basically sub to midrange.
Read through your own post that had all the details on the image that had the freq scale for speakers. It wasn\'t just referring to sub-woofers. It was roughly going through the scales, from sub to tweeter.
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I see.
well, you are right that woofer is for handling low frequency, tweeter is for handling high frequency range. But both are electroacoustic transducers, and you can say that a tweeter is a small type of woofer, or a woofer is a big type of tweeter...but that can gets confusing, so it\'s more terminology correct to differentiate the higher frequency, small size driver as tweeter and low frequency range, big size driver as woofer.
Like you can say a subwoofer is a type of speaker, but calling a subwoofer a speaker can get confusing too. So, it\'s better to seperate the terminology between speaker and subwoofer. As one is usualy refer to handle most of the full range frequency, while the other is to reproducing the bottom range of frequency...
Anyway, out of curiousity, what\'s the frequency response of your car subwoofer, and how much doesn\'t roll off?
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speaking of deep bass, I was at a chemical brothers concert a few years back and I swear.. It felt like I could hardly breathe on certain songs the bass was so deep. They did this thing where they started the bass really high pitched and the made the bass go deeper and deeper until you couldn\'t hear it anymore, only feel it.
Fucking incredible
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speaking of deep bass, I was at a chemical brothers concert a few years back and I swear.. It felt like I could hardly breathe on certain songs the bass was so deep. They did this thing where they started the bass really high pitched and the made the bass go deeper and deeper until you couldn\'t hear it anymore, only feel it.
Fucking incredible
I was in a movie theater in Vegas that had the same effect. During one of the movie company sequences there was this insane bass that you couldn\'t hear, but feel. Felt like my whole body went dumb. The theater had crazy speakers. I think it was in that horrible End of Days film.
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I see.
well, you are right that woofer is for handling low frequency, tweeter is for handling high frequency range. But both are electroacoustic transducers, and you can say that a tweeter is a small type of woofer, or a woofer is a big type of tweeter...but that can gets confusing, so it\'s more terminology correct to differentiate the higher frequency, small size driver as tweeter and low frequency range, big size driver as woofer.
Like you can say a subwoofer is a type of speaker, but calling a subwoofer a speaker can get confusing too. So, it\'s better to seperate the terminology between speaker and subwoofer. As one is usualy refer to handle most of the full range frequency, while the other is to reproducing the bottom range of frequency...
Anyway, out of curiousity, what\'s the frequency response of your car subwoofer, and how much doesn\'t roll off?
speaker details,
Nom impedance: 8ohms
- Power handling: 160watts RMS
- Frequency range: 29Hz - 2500Hz
- Sensitivity: 91dB 1watt 1metre
- Voice Coil Resistance (Re): 6.9ohms
- Resonant frequency (fs): 29Hz
- Mechanical Q factor (Qms): 7.632
- Electrical Q factor (Qes): 0.364
- Total Q factor (Qts): 0.347
- Equivalent Volume (Vas): 98Lt
- Cone Area (sq m): 0.0346
can\'t remember roll-off, 30s somewhere, 37hz if i remember right.
As for not calling a sub-woofer a speaker etc. It\'s a speaker, simple. There\'s no saying its better to be called something else or whatever.
[SIZE="2"]Speaker = electric signal turned into sound. [/size]
speaker also = loudspeaker.
Tweeter is a type of speaker, sub woofer is a type of speaker, Midrange is a type of speaker. Woofers aren\'t tweeters, woofers are woofers, subwoofers to midrange are woofers. Woofer = bass level frequencies. Tweeters aren\'t a type of woofer. They\'re both types of speakers..
Think of it like a Geforce 6600GT card (bass) and a 6800GT card (tweeter) Both are GF6 family cards (speaker), but they act in different ways..
Heres a simple question for you, how do i find the figure out the litre size of a box i\'ve built?
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As for not calling a sub-woofer a speaker etc. It\'s a speaker, simple. There\'s no saying its better to be called something else or whatever.
Subwoofer is part of a speaker, but again, it would be more terminology correct to call a subwoofer a subwoofer so it won\'t get confusing and misinterpretation. For example, kind of like calling a bedroom a house. Where the bedroom is part of a house, but a house have other things beside bedroom like bathroom, kitchen, living room, etc.
Same could be said about subwoofer and speaker. A subwoofer is design to reproduce low frequency range while a speaker is design to reproduce all of the frequency range, except most can\'t do bass as deep as 30 Hz or lower, so a subwoofer is design for handling deeper bass only, but not the treble, and depends on the subwoofer, not the midrange either.
Tweeter is a type of speaker, sub woofer is a type of speaker, Midrange is a type of speaker.
Agreed.
Woofers aren\'t tweeters, woofers are woofers, subwoofers to midrange are woofers. Woofer = bass level frequencies. Tweeters aren\'t a type of woofer. They\'re both types of speakers..
both woofers and tweeters are drivers. So, usually big size drivers that handle low frequency range are called woofer, while small size drivers are called tweeters that are for handling upper frequency range, such as treble.
So, I think woofers are a type of tweeters, and vice versa. But again, it would be terminology correct to seperate them by calling the bass handling driver as woofers and the treble handling drivers as tweeters. Midrange, this is where it gets tricky where some woofers can handle up to midrange while most tweeters can handle the midrange too...
Think of it like a Geforce 6600GT card (bass) and a 6800GT card (tweeter) Both are GF6 family cards (speaker), but they act in different ways..
Agreed. Same could be said about loudspeakers and subwoofers.
Heres a simple question for you, how do i find the figure out the litre size of a box i\'ve built?
No idea as I am no engineer or speaker designer. But that question kind of get me curious. What is it?
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Subwoofer is part of a speaker, but again, it would be more terminology correct to call a subwoofer a subwoofer so it won\'t get confusing and misinterpretation.
See thats where you are getting it wrong. A subwoofer is a type of speaker. Not part of a speaker, it is used in a speaker enclosure. Then stores and retails refer to enclosures with speakers as a speaker. Just easier that way. You can debate with me all you want, but it\'s the way it is. Drivers and speakers are teh same thing. But they get put in enclosures and then called A speaker.
For example, kind of like calling a bedroom a house. Where the bedroom is part of a house, but a house have other things beside bedroom like bathroom, kitchen, living room, etc.
as i said above.
Same could be said about subwoofer and speaker. A subwoofer is design to reproduce low frequency range while a speaker is design to reproduce all of the frequency range, except most can\'t do bass as deep as 30 Hz or lower, so a subwoofer is design for handling deeper bass only, but not the treble, and depends on the subwoofer, not the midrange either.
Again, you\'re talking about a subwoofer as if it\'s not a speaker. It is. It\'s simply a speaker designed for low frequencies.
both woofers and tweeters are drivers. So, usually big size drivers that handle low frequency range are called woofer, while small size drivers are called tweeters that are for handling upper frequency range, such as treble.
So, I think woofers are a type of tweeters, and vice versa. But again, it would be terminology correct to seperate them by calling the bass handling driver as woofers and the treble handling drivers as tweeters. Midrange, this is where it gets tricky where some woofers can handle up to midrange while most tweeters can handle the midrange too...
Again, you\'re referring to your own interpretation of what they should be called, to what they are called. Drivers can be either part of a speaker, or referred to the entire speaker. Woofers and Tweeters are drivers, but they\'re not the same thing in terms of terms.
A woofer is ONLY low level frequencies, it does not refer to any high level frequencies drivers what so ever. Tweeters are the same, they refer to only high freq drivers, not low frequency drivers. I can\'t for the life of me understand why you can\'t fathom this.
Have you walked into a audio store and said to the store dood, what type of woofers do you have and he has lead you to the tweeter section? don\'t think so!
No idea as I am no engineer or speaker designer. But that question kind of get me curious. What is it?
This is what i find amusing, i am designing speakers and cabs to match, anyway If i haven\'t replied to certain parts of your post its because you\'ve agreed or i can\'t be bothed.
To find litre size of a box its simply.
W*H*L in mm, Divide by 1 million. Easy way to remember is 10cm x 10cm x 10cm = 1000 cm^3 = 1 litre. Remember that and you can use it for pretty much any square box. When there\'s angles, it\'s a little more involved. Which you can google for yourself.
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See thats where you are getting it wrong. A subwoofer is a type of speaker. Not part of a speaker, it is used in a speaker enclosure. Then stores and retails refer to enclosures with speakers as a speaker. Just easier that way. You can debate with me all you want, but it\'s the way it is. Drivers and speakers are teh same thing. But they get put in enclosures and then called A speaker.
Let me try to get this straight up, so I should have said a subwoofer is a type of speaker, not part of a speaker. There, happy now?
Again, you\'re talking about a subwoofer as if it\'s not a speaker. It is. It\'s simply a speaker designed for low frequencies.
Its like we both are saying the same thing over and over again. A subwoofer is a speaker, but I like to called a subwoofer a subwoofer instead of a speaker. I am getting tired of explaining why I prefer calling a subwoofer a subwoofer rather than calling it a speaker.
Again, you\'re referring to your own interpretation of what they should be called, to what they are called. Drivers can be either part of a speaker, or referred to the entire speaker. Woofers and Tweeters are drivers, but they\'re not the same thing in terms of terms.
A woofer is ONLY low level frequencies, it does not refer to any high level frequencies drivers what so ever. Tweeters are the same, they refer to only high freq drivers, not low frequency drivers. I can\'t for the life of me understand why you can\'t fathom this.
I can\'t understand either why you don\'t think a tweeter is a type of woofer or a woofer is a type of tweeter either...since you say you are a speaker designer, ask your coworkers if a woofer is a type of tweeter or vice versa, maybe we need a 3rd person thought on this one...
Have you walked into a audio store and said to the store dood, what type of woofers do you have and he has lead you to the tweeter section? don\'t think so!
How about this, ask the guy in the audio store if you can buy a subwoofer and see if he shows you floorstanding speakers instead.
This is what i find amusing, i am designing speakers and cabs to match, anyway If i haven\'t replied to certain parts of your post its because you\'ve agreed or i can\'t be bothed.
To find litre size of a box its simply.
W*H*L in mm, Divide by 1 million. Easy way to remember is 10cm x 10cm x 10cm = 1000 cm^3 = 1 litre. Remember that and you can use it for pretty much any square box. When there\'s angles, it\'s a little more involved. Which you can google for yourself.
I don\'t understand why is it amusing? Honestly, I am kind of lost here between our disagreements too.
Nice math about a litre size of a box, not sure if this will be useful for me later in life as i am no speaker designer. But its nice to know since that\'s quite easy math for me and I am a number cruncher. So according to your math, is 1 litre = .001 cm? What is this the purpose a litre if you don\'t mind me ask...
One last thing I been pondering, your said your current car sub have a frequency range of 29 Hz- 2,500 Hz, and without rolloff, your car sub can go down to around 37 Hz. I want to know what was the frequency range of your previous car sub before and or after roll off too. Just curious to see the difference between your two car subwoofers...
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Let me try to get this straight up, so I should have said a subwoofer is a type of speaker, not part of a speaker. There, happy now?
Its like we both are saying the same thing over and over again. A subwoofer is a speaker, but I like to called a subwoofer a subwoofer instead of a speaker. I am getting tired of explaining why I prefer calling a subwoofer a subwoofer rather than calling it a speaker.
I can\'t understand either why you don\'t think a tweeter is a type of woofer or a woofer is a type of tweeter either...since you say you are a speaker designer, ask your coworkers if a woofer is a type of tweeter or vice versa, maybe we need a 3rd person thought on this one...
How about this, ask the guy in the audio store if you can buy a subwoofer and see if he shows you floorstanding speakers instead.
I don\'t understand why is it amusing? Honestly, I am kind of lost here between our disagreements too.
Nice math about a litre size of a box, not sure if this will be useful for me later in life as i am no speaker designer. But its nice to know since that\'s quite easy math for me and I am a number cruncher. So according to your math, is 1 litre = .001 cm? What is this the purpose a litre if you don\'t mind me ask...
One last thing I been pondering, your said your current car sub have a frequency range of 29 Hz- 2,500 Hz, and without rolloff, your car sub can go down to around 37 Hz. I want to know what was the frequency range of your previous car sub before and or after roll off too. Just curious to see the difference between your two car subwoofers...
Can\'t remember the other car sub specs. But if you know anything about car audio you\'d know that boot space itself effects responce. As for you still referring to a tweeter as a woofer, it\'s still wrong, simply put its like calling a ford a holden. There both cars, but 2 different companies.
The terminology of woofer was made for low bass drivers, not tweeters. I\'m not gonna bother to ask any of my work mates or even teachers at school this since these are the people that taught me. You can believe what ever you want. Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=woofer&x=0&y=0) backs me up. I know if i asked for a subwoofer i\'d get subwoofers, what part of this thread did i debate otherwise? we aren\'t debating this, we are debating your retarded idea that a woofer is generally any type of speaker.
The litre size refers to the litre size the driver needs for proper responce, to little or to much you end up with loads of problems, cone can\'t move properly, port noise if you have a vented cab etc, which in the end creates crappy sound. wtf did u pull .001cm from?
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As for you still referring to a tweeter as a woofer, it\'s still wrong, simply put its like calling a ford a holden. There both cars, but 2 different companies.
I still don\'t get it.
The terminology of woofer was made for low bass drivers, not tweeters.
Duh. I never said tweeters are made for low bass drivers. Both tweeters and woofers are drivers. Except, small size drivers are usually refers as tweeters for handling midrange to treble while big size drivers are usually refers to as woofers for handling mainly bass. So, basically, what i mean is a tweeter can be consider woofer because they are drivers. I also said that is it terminology correct to called big size drivers that handle bass woofer, and small size driver that hande the upper frequency range as tweeters. Doesn\'t mean it\'s terminology correct to call tweeters as woofers. Hence, tweeters and woofers are use to differentiate between the two. Unless that I am wrong that tweeter and woofers aren\'t made of the same drivers....
I know if i asked for a subwoofer i\'d get subwoofers, what part of this thread did i debate otherwise? we aren\'t debating this, we are debating your retarded idea that a woofer is generally any type of speaker.
Because you said a subwoofer is a type of speakers, so if you ask the guy in the audio store to get a subwoofer, he of course will shows you a subwoofer instead of speakers even though a subwoofer is a type of speaker..you know what, suddenly i am more confused than ever.
Edited and Added: wait, I remember now. The word I am trying to say is "specific." Speakers are more general usuage. If you asked for a subwoofer, you are asking for a specific type of speaker. while if you asked for a speaker, the guy will just shows you the loudspeakers section instead of the subwoofers section even though a subwoofer is a type of speakers. Same could be said about tweeters and woofers which are more specific than asking for drivers. Again, what i mean when i say is a woofer is a type of tweeter even though they are not terminology correct is because they are basically the same drivers with different size and handling different frequency. One works for bass while other works for treble. Same thing about subwoofer where is only works for bass while the speakers use both woofers, and tweeters to work both treble and bass...is my explanation confusing?
The litre size refers to the litre size the driver needs for proper responce, to little or to much you end up with loads of problems, cone can\'t move properly, port noise if you have a vented cab etc, which in the end creates crappy sound. wtf did u pull .001cm from?
i divided by 1 million like you said then i got .001...now i realize you wrote mm and i am getting more confused...
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I still don\'t get it.
So, basically, what i mean is a tweeter can be consider woofer because they are drivers. I also said that is it terminology correct to called big size drivers that handle bass woofer, and small size driver that hande the upper frequency range as tweeters. Doesn\'t mean it\'s terminology correct to call tweeters as woofers. Hence, tweeters and woofers are use to differentiate between the two. Unless that I am wrong that tweeter and woofers aren\'t made of the same drivers....
Tweeters and woofers are made from drivers, just bigger and smaller ones yes, But the TERMINOLOGY for tweeter refers only to high frequency drivers, and woofers = bass. There\'s no way of saying they are teh same thing, yes, they\'re both drivers. But calling a tweeter the same thing as a woofer is wrong. Not because they\'re the same driver, but because the words themselves reflect different scales in the driver range. I wish you\'d just accept this and stop saying they can both be concided woofers.
Because you said a subwoofer is a type of speakers, so if you ask the guy in the audio store to get a subwoofer, he of course will shows you a subwoofer instead of speakers even though a subwoofer is a type of speaker..you know what, suddenly i am more confused than ever.
i know, i\'m not debating this for the 10x time. But calling a tweeter a woofer isn\'t like calling a speaker a subwoofer. It\'s like calling a subwoofer and tweeter. All of which are speakers.. Like i said early, the reason why people call speakers a speaker when they\'re inclosed isn\'t because they have all the ranges. It\'s just easier to call it a speaker then a cabinet with speakers.
Edited and Added: wait, I remember now. The word I am trying to say is "specific." Speakers are more general usuage. If you asked for a subwoofer, you are asking for a specific type of speaker. while if you asked for a speaker, the guy will just shows you the loudspeakers section instead of the subwoofers section even though a subwoofer is a type of speakers. Same could be said about tweeters and woofers which are more specific than asking for drivers. Again, what i mean when i say is a woofer is a type of tweeter even though they are not terminology correct is because they are basically the same drivers with different size and handling different frequency. One works for bass while other works for treble. Same thing about subwoofer where is only works for bass while the speakers use both woofers, and tweeters to work both treble and bass...is my explanation confusing?
nope, just flawed. Agian you\'re referring the terminology as the same thing, when they\'re not. The terminology is for 2 different types of drivers. But a woofer is ONLY referred to low freq level.
If you were to ask, what products do you have in high level frequencies. They\'d take you to the tweeter section, if you were to say low, they\'d take you to the bass section. Now, replace high level with tweeter, and low level with sub and you may understand that the terms refer to different driver ranges. Not the same ranges.
Thats all the terminology refers too, so calling a tweeter a woofer is wrong. It\'s like saying a High level freq device is the same as a low level one. You can not call a tweeter a woofer because simply its not a low frequency high frequency device is it. We are saying the same thing, but your referring to the terminologies as the drivers themselves. When it refers to ranges, not drivers.
Think of it like this, you calling woofers and tweeters woofers is like calling running and walking the same thing, in both you move your legs in similar ways, the process is the same, and they get your somewhere, but they\'re 2 different things.
here\'s another way to understand it. Woofer = low freq driver. Tweeter = high freq driver. But don\'t confuse the word woofer and tweeter as another name for driver. They are only referring to the freq level that the driver can respond to.
are you understanding yet? theres no way to call a tweeter the same thing as a subwoofer. Yes there both drivers, but a woofer isn\'t a tweeter and a tweeter isn\'t a woofer..
If you\'re not getting this please don\'t reply with massive replies, i can\'t be f@#ked explain something thats a first week course outlay in audio to someone who doesn\'t want to listen.
i divided by 1 million like you said then i got .001...now i realize you wrote mm and i am getting more confused...
mm = millimetres. 100mm per 1cm.
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There\'s a question that\'s been on my mind lately: Is Soulgrind just trying to destabilize the already volatile social fabric that he purportedly aims to save? I mean, I cannot, in good conscience, step aside and let repressive misogynists destroy our sense of safety in the places we ordinarily imagine we can flee to. Here\'s a quick review: He has found a way to avoid compliance with government regulations, circumvent any further litigation, and ridicule the accomplishments of generations of great men and women -- all by trumping up a phony emergency. Aside from the fact that there is a certain Burkean prudence that animates people like me to encourage individuals to come out of their cocoons and flourish, I am shocked and angered by his stentorian improprieties. Such shameful conduct should never be repeated.
The absurdity of Soulgrind\'s ultimata did not dawn on me until I realized that Soulgrind serves as a conduit that carries the élan vital of insurrectionism. Period, finis, and Q.E.D. From a public-policy perspective, the hour is late indeed. Fortunately, it\'s not yet too late to say "no" to his yawping theories.
In the past, it was perfectly clear to everyone with insight and without malice that Soulgrind displays the paranoid malice that is the hallmark of true defeatism. Unfortunately, there were a number of people who seemed to lack this insight at the right time or who, contrary to their better knowledge, contested and denied this truth. I\'ve heard him say that there should be publicly financed centers of tribalism. Was that just a slip of the lip or is Soulgrind secretly trying to don the mantel of anarchism and twist the truth? He doesn\'t want you to know the answer to that question; he wants to ensure you don\'t tell him where he can stick it. In other words, it would be a work of supererogation to speak out against reckless boeotians at a time when every week there transpires news of obdurate sciolists following Soulgrind\'s orders to encumber the religious idea with too many things of a purely earthly nature and thus bring religion into a totally unnecessary conflict with science. Still, I recommend you check out some of his pleas and draw your own conclusions on the matter. Soulgrind\'s publicity stunts have merged with fascism in several interesting ways. Both spring from the same kind of reality-denying mentality. Both take us all on a completely reckless ride into the unknown. And both scapegoat easy, unpopular targets, thereby diverting responsibility from more culpable parties.
You may balk at this, but Soulgrind is capable of passing very rapidly from a hidden enjoyment of unscrupulous charlatanism to a proclaimed attachment to careerism and back -- and back again. But the problems with Soulgrind\'s antics don\'t end there. He says that prudish ragamuffins and directionless sad sacks should rule this country. That\'s a stupid thing to say. It\'s like saying that you and I are inferior to backwards, bloodthirsty power brokers. I may not believe that Soulgrind\'s politics are good for the environment, human rights, and baby seals, but I surely do maintain that even when the facts don\'t fit, he sometimes tries to use them anyway. He still maintains, for instance, that genocide, slavery, racism, and the systematic oppression, degradation, and exploitation of most of the world\'s people are all absolutely justified.
No one can deny that investigators who have spent many years attempting to penetrate the dark recesses of Soulgrind\'s phlegmatic underworld frequently conclude that I would certainly be surprised if Soulgrind stopped to communicate and share ideas with even one of the people he regularly attacks, yet Soulgrind has been trying hard to protect what has become a lucrative racket for him. Unfortunately, that lucrative racket has a hard-to-overlook consequence: it will attack the fabric of this nation by next weekend. To Soulgrind\'s mind, the world\'s salvation comes from whims, irrationality, and delusions. So that means that he has his moral compass in tact, right? No, not right. The truth is that my dream is for tired eyes to open and see clearly, broken spirits to find new energy, and weary arms to find the strength to disentangle people from the snares set by Soulgrind and his acolytes. His allies are not, technically, intransigent, malicious phonies, but rather self-absorbed hoodlums. I suspect that there is a small -- yet not entirely insignificant -- difference.
I unmistakably believe that we should make this world a kinder, gentler place, and I have formalized my commitment to this high ideal by ensuring that I always make an impartial and well-informed evaluation of the advantages and disadvantages of Soulgrind\'s disquisitions. I know more about antidisestablishmentarianism than most people. You might even say that I\'m an expert on the subject. I can therefore state with confidence that my current plan is to give Soulgrind a rhadamanthine warning not to keep us hypnotized so we don\'t discuss the programmatic foundations of his bad-tempered revenge fantasies in detail. Yes, Soulgrind will draw upon the most powerful fires of Hell to tear that plan asunder, but if I didn\'t sincerely believe that what he seems to be forgetting is that I unequivocally disagree with his sordid excuses, then I wouldn\'t be writing this letter. Mankind needs to do more to supply the missing ingredient that could stop the worldwide slide into sesquipedalianism. Understand, I am not condemning mankind for not doing enough; I am merely stating that I\'m at loggerheads with Soulgrind on at least one important issue. Namely, he argues that he is a model citizen. I take the opposite position, that I receive a great deal of correspondence from people all over the world. And one of the things that impresses me about it is the massive number of people who realize that Soulgrind says that without his superior guidance, we will go nowhere. What balderdash! What impudence! What treachery! Just wait until someone gets hurt as a result of Soulgrind\'s writings. Then, more people will agree that he cannot tolerate the world as it is. He needs to live in a world of fantasies. To be more specific, Soulgrind\'s a pretty good liar most of the time. However, he tells so many lies, he\'s bound to trip himself up someday.
Regardless of what Soulgrind seems to think, I am quite certain that telling the truth is too much trouble for nit-picky fickle-types bent on getting their way. Did he cancel his plans to replace Robert\'s Rules of Order with "facilitated consensus building" at all important meetings because he had a change of heart, or is he continuing the same battle on another front? It would appear to be the latter. If his tirades get any more hideous, I expect they\'ll grow legs and attack me in my sleep.
I believe, way deep down, that only through education can individuals gain the independent tools they need to celebrate knowledge and truth for the sake of knowledge and truth. But the first step is to acknowledge that I am deliberately using colorful language in this letter. I am deliberately using provocative phrases that I hope will stick in the minds of my readers. I do ensure, however, that my words are always appropriate and accurate and clearly explain how Soulgrind assigns blame to everyone but himself. Now that\'s a rather crude and simplistic statement and, in many cases, it may not even be literally true.
All of these things are related: narcissism, Soulgrind\'s bait-and-switch tactics, and the general breakdown of our society. I\'ll even tell you how they\'re related. It\'s really very simple. In essence, Soulgrind is typical of pea-brained, profligate barrators in his wild invocations to the irrational, the magic, and the fantastic to dramatize his fulminations.
I guess what I really mean to say is that you probably know exactly what I mean. To cap that off, one of the great mysteries of modern life is, Why doesn\'t Soulgrind point a critical finger at himself for a change? In classic sophist fashion, I ask another question in reply: Why does Soulgrind insist on boring holes in the hull of the boat in which he himself is also a passenger? I\'ll tell you what I think the answer is. I can\'t prove it, but if I\'m correct, events soon will prove me right. I think that I\'ve tried explaining to Soulgrind\'s satraps that Soulgrind\'s exploitative lapdogs exert themselves to muddy the water, obfuscate the record, and cover up, by sophistries and denials, all of Soulgrind\'s illiberal contretemps. Unfortunately, it is clear to me in talking to them that they have no comprehension of what I\'m saying. I might as well be talking to creatures from Mars. In fact, I\'d bet Martians would be more likely to discern that in a recent essay. Since the arguments he made in the rest of his essay are based in part on that assumption, he should be aware that it just isn\'t true. Not only that, but he wants you to believe that granting him complete control over our lives is as important as breathing air. You should be wary of such claims. Be aware! Be skeptical! Think! Do not be diverted, deceived, or mesmerized by Soulgrind\'s intrusive double standards. Someone has to be willing to debunk the nonsense spouted by Soulgrind\'s subordinates. Even if it\'s not polite to do so. Even if it hurts a lot of people\'s feelings. Even if everyone else is pretending that Soulgrind has mystical powers of divination and prophecy. It\'s considerations of this sort that make it worth our while to learn about the oligophrenic things he is up to. I put that observation into this letter just to let you see that in these days of political correctness and the changing of how history is taught in schools to fulfill a particular agenda, if you ever ask him to do something, you can bet that your request will get lost in the shuffle, unaddressed, ignored, and rebuffed. The end.
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WTF!!! where\'d u fill my name in? what site was it?
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if i say it here it will be overused so it won\'t spark the same wtf reaction. check your pm ;)
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Tweeters and woofers are made from drivers, just bigger and smaller ones yes, But the TERMINOLOGY for tweeter refers only to high frequency drivers, and woofers = bass. There\'s no way of saying they are teh same thing, yes, they\'re both drivers. But calling a tweeter the same thing as a woofer is wrong. Not because they\'re the same driver, but because the words themselves reflect different scales in the driver range. I wish you\'d just accept this and stop saying they can both be concided woofers.
Agreed and accepted. I finally see your point.
Thats all the terminology refers too, so calling a tweeter a woofer is wrong. It\'s like saying a High level freq device is the same as a low level one. You can not call a tweeter a woofer because simply its not a low frequency high frequency device is it. We are saying the same thing, but your referring to the terminologies as the drivers themselves. When it refers to ranges, not drivers.
correct. That\'s why it\'s correct to called a tweeter a tweeter, and a woofer a woofer. Kind of the same could be said about a subwoofer is not a full range speaker, and a full range speaker is not a subwoofer. Because a subwoofer only play bass level frequencies, while a full range speaker can play up to midrange and treble frequencies. I thought fatalXception was saying a subwoofer as a full range speaker when he wrote 18" subwoofer as a speaker. Now reading it again, I realized he doesn\'t meant the sub as a full range speaker. Because sub is a speaker. To me, whenever someone said a speaker, i always get the impresions they mean full range speaker, and never thought they also mean subwoofer. That is why i thought fatalxception was wrong when he said a sub is a speaker, now I realize what he meant. Its just that we have different interpretation of what the word "speaker" really mean...
Think of it like this, you calling woofers and tweeters woofers is like calling running and walking the same thing, in both you move your legs in similar ways, the process is the same, and they get your somewhere, but they\'re 2 different things.
Very good comparison. I do see your point there. That could be use to say the same about a subwoofer and a full range speaker too. Again, I am just saying a full range speaker, not speaker...because whenever somebody said speaker, I always assumed they meant full range speakers...
here\'s another way to understand it. Woofer = low freq driver. Tweeter = high freq driver. But don\'t confuse the word woofer and tweeter as another name for driver. They are only referring to the freq level that the driver can respond to.
are you understanding yet? theres no way to call a tweeter the same thing as a subwoofer. Yes there both drivers, but a woofer isn\'t a tweeter and a tweeter isn\'t a woofer..
You are right. But woofers and tweeters does have one thing in common, and that they convert electric signal into audio waveforms...beside that, you are pretty much right on what you are saying.
mm = millimetres. 100mm per 1cm.
thats what got me confused. Are you sure 100mm = 1 cm? I just checked to be sure that and I remember the difference between cm to mm is only 1 step, not 2 steps....
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asdfads
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mm = millimetres. 100mm per 1cm.
There\'s 10mm in 1 cm...
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I just... can\'t get how people don\'t get or have the metric system wrong... it\'s just... beyond me.
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Yeah. I don\'t see how multiples of 10 can be confusing.
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sorry was drunk when i wrote that last message, was a typo. 100mm = 10cm, so eh yea.
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Soulgrind, remember over 2 years ago back then when we argued about pixel response time and refresh rate? I got pwned really bad back then. Back then, I always thought that pixel response time and refresh rate are the same thing. Turns out I was wrong, and I kept arguing with you about it because I thought i was right. Turns out they are two differen things. man, that was an embarrasing moment for me to realize I was wrong, but I did learned something new that they are two different things...
In this thread, you were right about not necessary to get a sub over 12". You were also right about the definition of tweeter is reproduction of high frequency range while woofer are reproduction of low frequency range...so, i did learned something new about audio and speakers in this thread too. Like the chart that fatalXception posted, about different size drivers does different frequency ranges generally. And that it\'s possible for 10" subwoofer to get down to 20 Hz before rolloff with SPL of 100 dB with very little distortion.
You worked in computer field, and now you worked in audio field as a speaker designer. And i am just an audio/video/computer enthusiast. No wonder you know more than me in those area in most cases than me.
There, no hard feelings.:cool:
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hard feelings on a forum? nar i don\'t hold grudges on the internet. No hard feelings.
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Wow, can\'t believe I finally broke down and opened this thread.
The right answer was: who the fuck cares?
/thread
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you do, hence why you replied.