PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => PS3 Discussion => Topic started by: Knotter8 on September 06, 2006, 01:58:18 AM
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http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=67341 (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=67341)
ouch
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Sony can\'t catch a break in the pre-launch. If they sell ther forecast and move more than 6 million games, though, who can argue?
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400.000 & 100.000 PS3\'s for USA & Japan...not exactly staggering numbers.
PAL holiday season budgets will be spent on Wii60 - do you think those same people are willing to buy a PS3 the next year ?
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Interesting, I guess the Winter Holidays did put quite a pressure on Sony trying to sell it before the Holidays are over.
First, they were waiting for the HDMI v1.3 specs to be finalized and mass produce, now they are having blue laser diode shortages...Not sure if Sony is able to launch 6 million units worldwide by March 2007 as they had planned...
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Ouch, harsh news.
I was so close to investing in Nintendo stock last month, I really regret it now, it\'s setting new records today, and this news will only help.
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Hey Sony. Fuck you, fuck you up the ass.
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I guess they can\'t call it a worldwide launch anymore then, can they?
I\'d say Europe is arguably the most important market that will decide who wins the generation. They may have just handed it to Microsoft and/or Nintendo. Then again, Europe is used to waiting...
will be interesting.
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Who cares? I\'m gonna wait anyway even though I live in the good ole US of A. They can ship 20 million units. I\'m waiting this launch out until the dust settles and things become a bit clearer.
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Just wait for the news of an American shortage - it\'s bound to happen.
With that said, I\'m not surprised about this. The whole launch seems forced, in my humble opinion.
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No problem if the next shipment wont be far off and limited
400.000 & 100.000 PS3\'s for USA & Japan...not exactly staggering numbers.
PAL holiday season budgets will be spent on Wii60 - do you think those same people are willing to buy a PS3 the next year ?
Personally I believe they do, unless they already own a 360.
PS3 and Wii offer different experiences and have different offerings plus Wii is cheap.
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Ouch, harsh news.
I was so close to investing in Nintendo stock last month, I really regret it now, it\'s setting new records today, and this news will only help.
Yeah, it doubled this year to a six-year high.
I owned stock in Nintendo probably about six year\'s ago so I would have broken even, but I sold it along time ago. It was sliding downhill consistently ever since Pokemon lost its stranglehold on America.
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http://www.thisiswaiting.com/ (http://www.thisiswaiting.com/)
:rofl:
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From what I\'ve been hearing is that waiting around for the PS3 is gonna pretty common.
News has been released that states that load times for the PS3 will be longer than the Xbox 360 due to slow speeds of the Blu-Ray drive
News has been released that states that load times for the PS3 will be longer than the Xbox 360 due to slow speeds of the Blu-Ray drive.
Blu-ray read speeds are slower than that of the Xbox 360’s DVD drive and because of this, even though the PS3’s Blu-ray discs will have much more storage space, load times will take longer to complete.
Former Sony employee Mark DeLoura responded and tried to defend Blu-ray, but did admit that load times will take longer.
“Admittedly, Blu-Ray looks dicey from several non-capacity angles. Blu-Ray movies require a 1.5x Blu-Ray drive, or 54Mbits/second. Sony announced that PS3 uses a 2x BD drive, which is 72Mbits/second or 9MB/second. The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD, which should give it about 16MB/second. That is significantly faster for games and will result in shorter load times. And that 12x DVD drive should be a whole lot cheaper. (Note that the PS3 drive will do 8x DVD, and even that is faster than 2x BD.)”
The PS3 just can’t seem to get a break in terms of publicity and this is just another shot to be thrown at Sony, the PS3, and the Blu-ray medium.
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why the hell are load times an issue when games like King\'s Field didn\'t have them 10 years ago on the PS1
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http://www.thisiswaiting.com/ (http://www.thisiswaiting.com/)
:rofl:
some of those are pretty funny. This is my favorite...
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisiswaiting.com%2Fa4.gif&hash=835c17f535d4ed718c7807cfb5a81064503d5b63)
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Some are funny. Looks more and more like this launch will mirror the PS2 launch. I\'m so glad I locked up my PS3 way early on with a pre-order, I\'ll be able to scalp it for lots of money, help pay the Christmas bills.
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I am beginning to think that holding off on the Ps3 for a while, and sticking with my 360 (which i\'ve had for 8 months) is a better idea, until Sony works out the kinks. There could be lots of blu-ray problems.
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From what I\'ve been hearing is that waiting around for the PS3 is gonna pretty common.
"Former Sony employee Mark DeLoura responded and tried to defend Blu-ray, but did admit that load times will take longer.
“Admittedly, Blu-Ray looks dicey from several non-capacity angles. Blu-Ray movies require a 1.5x Blu-Ray drive, or 54Mbits/second. Sony announced that PS3 uses a 2x BD drive, which is 72Mbits/second or 9MB/second. The Xbox 360 uses a 12x DVD, which should give it about 16MB/second. That is significantly faster for games and will result in shorter load times. And that 12x DVD drive should be a whole lot cheaper. (Note that the PS3 drive will do 8x DVD, and even that is faster than 2x BD.)”
The PS3 just can’t seem to get a break in terms of publicity and this is just another shot to be thrown at Sony, the PS3, and the Blu-ray medium."
Actually, that quotes from a former Sony employee is a little misleading.
Here is a Link (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showpost.php?p=571112&postcount=78) of what I mean...
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The internet is being massacred by Sony-hating trolls :laughing:
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That\'s pretty true. There\'s a lot of anti-Sony people online.
These are real people who won\'t be supporting Sony in stores, but I wonder what kind of influence they\'ll have over people who haven\'t followed the news.
The people who right now want the next PlayStation just because it\'s a PlayStation and may not even know that it\'s going to cost at least half a grand.
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Well, I can tell you guys one thing for free, here in South Africa (we fall under Europe PAL for gaming) we are all pissed off with Sony and mojority of the people have decided to rather support the wii60.
Now, if the news is as well known in Africa, can you just imagine the rest of the world?
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Too bad Sony has me by the balls with certain developers and franchises. :(
Polyphony, Team ICO, Naughty Dog.. You cant play their games on any other platform.
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I wouldn\'t sweat it. I\'m a Sony fan and I thought I\'d never miss this launch. Sony just made it easier for me to wait.
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From what I\'ve been hearing is that waiting around for the PS3 is gonna pretty common.
It really isn’t that simple it seems.
360s drive is 12x, yep.. But if the game is pressed on a DVD9 disc (which the majority of the 360 titles are) the maximum read speed drops to 8x.
And since 360 has a CAV drive, it only reaches 12x (SL) or 8x (DL) on the outer edges of the disc, because that’s where it spins the fastest.
A 2x Blu-Ray drive with a BD25 (single layer disc) would actually outperform the drive in the 360, because the BD drive is a CLV drive, so it will keep an constant read speed even if it reads from the inner part of the disc, so the read speed is a constant 72Mbps while a DVD drive goes between 54 and ~130 Mbps for single layer, the maximum speed for a DL disc would be 86.4 Mbps which would only be reached on the outer parts of the disc.
Also since Blu-Ray has more storage space, devs can duplicate data and shorten seek times which will lower loading times.
The space for duplicate data will become less and less on a DVD9 disc if the games keep on growing, that means longer load times.
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Even if BR was slower I dont see why PS3 could have a disadvandage over 360. PS3 can also play DVDs at the same speed as the 360\'s. Or am I wrong?
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It really isn’t that simple it seems.
360s drive is 12x, yep.. But if the game is pressed on a DVD9 disc (which the majority of the 360 titles are) the maximum read speed drops to 8x.
And since 360 has a CAV drive, it only reaches 12x (SL) or 8x (DL) on the outer edges of the disc, because that’s where it spins the fastest.
Well, I\'m not anti PS3 perse. It\'s just that Sony does need to get it\'s PS3 act together asap. This means ;
- having sufficient PS3 available within a competitive timeframe
- showing evidence to the world that PS3 games stomp both XB360 games and PC games in terms of eyecandy, physics gameplay and eyecandy
I still believe both points might be possible but at this point in time the PS3, as a format, doesn\'t seem all too competent in convincing any gamer.
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It really isn’t that simple it seems.
360s drive is 12x, yep.. But if the game is pressed on a DVD9 disc (which the majority of the 360 titles are) the maximum read speed drops to 8x.
And since 360 has a CAV drive, it only reaches 12x (SL) or 8x (DL) on the outer edges of the disc, because that’s where it spins the fastest.
A 2x Blu-Ray drive with a BD25 (single layer disc) would actually outperform the drive in the 360, because the BD drive is a CLV drive, so it will keep an constant read speed even if it reads from the inner part of the disc, so the read speed is a constant 72Mbps while a DVD drive goes between 54 and ~130 Mbps for single layer, the maximum speed for a DL disc would be 86.4 Mbps which would only be reached on the outer parts of the disc.
Also since Blu-Ray has more storage space, devs can duplicate data and shorten seek times which will lower loading times.
The space for duplicate data will become less and less on a DVD9 disc if the games keep on growing, that means longer load times.
Wow. Very well said.
I didn\'t realize about the maximum read speed for xbox360 for dual layers DVD drop to 8x. So that means many xbox360 games that uses dual layers DVD will have a read speed slightly slower than ps3 on most part of the disc until a small portion of the outer edge where xbox360 is slightly faster than ps3.
You also pointed out something I also didn\'t realize about duplicate data on Blu Ray discs which shorten seek times and which will also lower load times.
And of course, I would like to add somethings too. Both ps3 versions will have a HDD, so that means even lesser load times compare to the core version of xbox360 which doesn\'t come with a hdd. Also, the 2x read speed of ps3 blu ray will be much quieter than 8x or 12x xbox360 dvd-rom.
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Even if BR was slower I dont see why PS3 could have a disadvandage over 360. PS3 can also play DVDs at the same speed as the 360\'s. Or am I wrong?
DVD is 8x maximum for PS3. 360 is 12x/8x (SL/DL).
Knotter8: Agreed. Both will come over time. Sony expects the supply to be 1.2 million units per month after November (sure :rolleyes: ), and the graphics will naturally improve over time, just like they did for PS2, Xbox, GC, 360 and so on.
I predict the first really eye-popping game to be Heavenly Sword, out sometime in Q1-Q2 2007, because IMO the release games don’t really show a difference between 360 and PS3 (well, maybe in fps they will).
So that means many xbox360 games that uses dual layers DVD will have a read speed slightly slower than ps3 on most part of the disc until a small portion of the outer edge where xbox360 is slightly faster than ps3.
Yes, the CAV 360 drive will have a slower transfer speed compared to a CLV BD-drive when the game is pressed on a DVD9.
Both ps3 versions will have a HDD, so that means even lesser load times compare to the core version of xbox360 which doesn\'t come with a hdd. Also, the 2x read speed of ps3 blu ray will be much quieter than 8x or 12x xbox360 dvd-rom.
Since the HDD is standard on all PS3 systems, all games can take advantage of it. Cache of different data should help load times greatly (IIRC, GT:HD had a load time of less than 4 seconds when it was demoed at E3)
And yes, the 2x BD drive should be less loud than the 360 drive. Sony has said that the system sound level is around 29dB (comparable to PS2 Slim), if that’s when a game is running or not they haven’t said.
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Ouch, so they\'ve slashed the launch figures a further 75%.... Now launching with 400k consoles in NA and 100k consoles in Japan.
These things are going to be selling on Ebay for like 2-3 grand at launch, methinks.
Sony is still stubbornly clinging to the 6 million shipped by end of fiscal year stance, but I wonder if that\'s really possible, and if they even have that much control over the blue laser diode creation process.
Sony talks about the reduction (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/731/731032p1.html)
*edit* today\'s update:
When it comes to PS3 launch supply the sky is not falling, says Dave Karraker, SCEA\'s newly appointed head of corporate communications. Naturally, Sony\'s putting the best face possible on a situation that\'s not optimal, but the exec claims that there will be more PS3 supply at launch than Xbox 360 had.
"By the end of the year, we will have..more than double what Microsoft sold through of Xbox 360 [in 2005], explained Karraker as reported by Gamespot. "The supply we have at launch is comparable to what was available for the PlayStation 2, not Xbox 360," he continued. "The total allocation for units in North America...is just less than what we had for PS2 and more than Microsoft had for Xbox 360."
....
More HERE (http://www.ps3news.ca/09072006/06/sony_ps3_will_top_xbox_360_launch_supply).
So it seems that Sony wants to ship 3 million (360 shipped 1.5 in 2005) by the end of the year... a lofty goal considering their launch numbers now, we\'ll have to see how it plays out. I wish I knew the numbers for launch day with the 360, did they really have less than 400k consoles in NA?
Looking back, Europe gets the shaft with this launch compared to the 360 launch, but the rest of the delayed world gets the same treatment (Remember the \'global 360 launch\' was only mostly global).
Launch for the 360:
November 22, 2005 in United States, Canada and Puerto Rico
December 2, 2005 in Europe
December 10, 2005 in Japan
February 2, 2006 in Mexico and Colombia
February 24, 2006 in South Korea
March 16, 2006 in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan
March 23, 2006 in Australia and New Zealand after a 3-week delay.
September 23, 2006 in South Africa, Chile, India, Brazil, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, and Slovakia.
Launch for PS3:
November 17, 2006 in Canada, US, Japan. (Puerto Rico?)
March 2007 in Europe
?????? 2007 in the rest?
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Somehow Sony always finds a way to fuck over Europe. I\'ll stick to Microsoft this time, at least they actually try to make it attractive to buy their stuff.
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meh i was going to wait for this thing anyway...somehow i think even with normal defects that come with the first shipping, now i really feel that alot of these systems being shipped on the ship date are going to have some major issues...and delaying europe? it really is baffling, this was sony\'s time to shine and nearly every step of the way they have stumbled....
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From Gamespot\'s editors :
"But much as I dislike the notion of not being able to get my hands on some sleek, new, cutting-edge gaming lounge-ware, from a business perspective, Sony was left with little real choice. Why mess up three markets, when you can just mess up two instead? At least, with the figures on actual consoles available even in Japan and the US, that\'s mostly how it looks."
Link : http://www.gamespot.com/features/6157294/index.html?tag=topslot;action;1 (http://www.gamespot.com/features/6157294/index.html?tag=topslot;action;1)
They make some good points imo.
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It seems Ken Kutaragi is mighty pissed at the rest of Sony for not being able to deliver on its promises.
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=reutersEdge&storyID=2006-09-08T105025Z_01_ZWE839007_RTRUKOC_0_TECH-SONY.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage3
"If you asked me if Sony\'s strength in hardware was in decline, right now I guess I would have to say that might be true," game unit head Ken Kutaragi said after Sony pushed back the PS3\'s European launch by four months to March.
Don’t worry Ken, its not your fault. ;)
It seems Sony Shiroishi Semiconductor are the ones to blame for not being able to manufacture the promised amount of blue laser diodes.
the manufacturing of blue-laser diodes was commited to Sony Shiroishi Semiconductor, one of child companies of Sony the parent company. Test production and test mass production were without troubles but apparently in July it was discovered that some reactors had good yield while others didn\'t. They could fix the optimal parameters for each reactor recently so it incurred approximately one-month delay.
Thanks to one @ B3D for the translation
Once the system is out I hope all the troubles are over ( and I don’t want a 360 fiasco post release, where 40-50% of the systems break!), because the recent months have seriously put a dent in the PlayStation image in some peoples eyes. GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!
Seems the downfall started when STRINGER took over the ship. ;) Can’t have a white man rule a Japanese corp, everything starts de-syncing. :D
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Here are the shipment plans from release up to the Euro-release.
blue-violet laser semiconductors installed in other Sony products were produced in a single reactor while for PS3 they had to use multiple reactors at the same time to process millions for the shipment target. As for buying laser semiconductors from other companies, it was not possible since others still can\'t handle mass production of these chips. The mass production of PS3 was delayed from early Septmeber to late September.
The US market is prioritized as Thanksgiving is in November. From late September, mass-produced PS3 will be shipped by boats to the US and the last batches will be by air. Since PS3 will be manufactured in Japan and China they can secure the assignment for Japan later than for the US.
As for Europe, PS3 shipped by boats in late January will reach there in early March. However, for the launch day, 1 million PS3 are secured for EU. They plan to ship 1.5 million PS3 to EU in March.
The initial target, 6 million PS3 till March 2007, is unchanged. Their internal target was 7.5 million and they plan to increase the output per month to 1.2 million.
Other parts are apparently in good yield. Cell has almost too good yield and they have 3 million of them. RSX, the 90nm southbridge chip, the RF controller chip for Blu-ray called "Savanna" are in good yield too.
Once again, thanks to One @ B3D for translating.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=825209&postcount=164
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This makes me realize something according to my experience with Sony products.
I remember back in Oct/Nov of 2000, when I first had my first dvd player which was also made by Sony. The disc reading quality was average imo. It doesn\'t even support cd-r discs.
Then in July 2001 when I first had my ps2, after years of usage. I found out it have below average disc reading quality. I guess most of you can remember the infamous disc read errors. Now, my ps2 can read dvd games and dvd video okay, but it have problems reading CD Audio and CD games. As if with time pass, the below average reading quality of the lasers worn out or something.
I think around that time, my brother first bought a Sony CD Boombox, and everything seems to work out good, except the disc reading quality. Again, it seems like the laser reading quality is average at best. If the quality of the disc is below average or poor. the music would freeze or skips.
Judging from my experiences with most of sony products, I can see most of their electronics quality are good except the lasers pickup. Except Sony CD/DVD writers which were rebaged from 3rd party manufacturers such as Lite-On and Ben-Q which have really good to great read and write quality.
I can\'t say about later generations ps2 such as the slim ps2 having any disc read errors problem that early ps2 generations plagued. Maybe those who do can chime in. But base on my experience, most of sony early generation products have average to below average lasers reading quality.
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No disc reading problems with any PAL PS2\'s nor PStwo\'s here.
My Xbox does have some problems with loading during PGR2 though...
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This makes me realize something according to my experience with Sony products.
I remember back in Oct/Nov of 2000, when I first had my first dvd player which was also made by Sony. The disc reading quality was average imo. It doesn\'t even support cd-r discs.
Then in July 2001 when I first had my ps2, after years of usage. I found out it have below average disc reading quality. I guess most of you can remember the infamous disc read errors. Now, my ps2 can read dvd games and dvd video okay, but it have problems reading CD Audio and CD games. As if with time pass, the below average reading quality of the lasers worn out or something.
I think around that time, my brother first bought a Sony CD Boombox, and everything seems to work out good, except the disc reading quality. Again, it seems like the laser reading quality is average at best. If the quality of the disc is below average or poor. the music would freeze or skips.
Judging from my experiences with most of sony products, I can see most of their electronics quality are good except the lasers pickup. Except Sony CD/DVD writers which were rebaged from 3rd party manufacturers such as Lite-On and Ben-Q which have really good to great read and write quality.
I can\'t say about later generations ps2 such as the slim ps2 having any disc read errors problem that early ps2 generations plagued. Maybe those who do can chime in. But base on my experience, most of sony early generation products have average to below average lasers reading quality.
Its weird that most people have problems with the CD format. Mine doesnt play CDs either anymore.
When my PS2 didnt play any disks at all and opened it to fixed it, I realized that the lens in certain positions playied CDs like a dream but didnt play the DVD format at all. When I positioned the lens so it would play DVDs it didnt play CDs.
I ve tried to position it so it would play both but to no avail . Currently it is set to play DVD movies and DVD based games
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Its weird that most people have problems with the CD format. Mine doesnt play CDs either anymore.
When my PS2 didnt play any disks at all and opened it to fixed it, I realized that the lens in certain positions playied CDs like a dream but didnt play the DVD format at all. When I positioned the lens so it would play DVDs it didnt play CDs.
I ve tried to position it so it would play both but to no avail . Currently it is set to play DVD movies and DVD based games
Funny How you mentioned that because that was the case with my playstation 2 too.
I also wrote an update weeks ago about my ps2 ribbon problems and this is part of what I wrote,
[INDENT]"...After hours of adjusting the gear, I couldn\'t find a spot that can read both the dvd and cd. If I find a spot that can read dvd discs, but it have trouble reading cd discs. If i find a spot that can read cd discs, it have trouble reading dvd discs. Mine ps2 really does have crappy laser pickup. So, I gave up and adjusted the gear back to the factory default spot..."[/INDENT]
After I adjusted the gear back to the default spot, it will only play DVD discs but not CD discs. I have to flip the ps2 to stand vertically for it to reads CD discs.
Here is the Link (http://www.psx2central.com/forums/showthread.php?p=576369#post576369) on my update if you are interested.
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Well its an interesting read thats for sure. But it wont help fixing my PS2 to play TTT again :p
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have you ever try standing the ps2 vertically? That\'s what I do to CD discs in order to play psone and ps2 games.
If my memory serves me correctly, turning the gear clockwise to from 17 - 22 clicks from the factory default could read CD and DVD discs...but it\'s not without glitches when I first tried weeks ago.
But anyway, ps3 is around the corner. If you can hang on to the ps2 for like a year or two, then replacing the ps2 with the ps3 should do. Hopefully this time around, they make better quality lasers pickup for the ps3.
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have you ever try standing the ps2 vertically? That\'s what I do to CD discs in order to play psone and ps2 games.
If my memory serves me correctly, turning the gear clockwise to from 17 - 22 clicks from the factory default could read CD and DVD discs...but it\'s not without glitches when I first tried weeks ago.
But anyway, ps3 is around the corner. If you can hang on to the ps2 for like a year or two, then replacing the ps2 with the ps3 should do. Hopefully this time around, they make better quality lasers pickup for the ps3.
I dont know how to make out which is the factory default. But I tried vertical as well and didnt work.
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whelp i don\'t have any problems with my ps2 concerning the problems listed, but let me tell you, i did have issues with the 1st psx...i remember having to turn that thing on a tilt or angle it in a really crazy way for it play games...:p..i ended up just buying a new one...