PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: GmanJoe on September 20, 2006, 03:48:17 AM
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It\'s okay for the Muslims to call on the deaths of Christians but not okay for the Pope to quote a medeival leader about the invading Muslims? It wasn\'t even his opinion. Shouldn\'t have apologized.
Now millions of Muslims are rallying for the death of the Pope. Several churches have already been attacked.
Perhaps an 8th Crusade should be called in?
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b/c christians are sooo non-violent themselves right?
ANybody that wants to be die for religion or kill someone else for religion should be put on an island to have at it. then bomb the shit out of the winner...
dont forget to televise it and everyone wins.
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Muslims have been stuck in their mindset where Christians were 500 or more years ago.
All this outrage is just another reason for Fundementalist Muslims to preach for the downfall of the West.
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"Um, about all those people we killed... uh... yeah, sorry bout that."
Nothing wrong with apologizing. You don\'t even have to mean it. Learned that on the Simpsons.
Sorry! I swear!
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Gman has a good point. Islam is stuck in the 1400\'s... I mean look at them:
Danish Cartoons - RIOT!!!!
Pope\'s Remarks - RIOT!!!!
The sun rises - RIOT!!!!
Seriously though, the Pope\'s remarks have proven to be accurate about Islam. Luckee you can not compare present day Christians with these people. Look at Ahmadinejad\'s speech in the UN yesterday - quite frankly its damn scary.
"I am emphatically declare that today\'s world more than ever before longs for just and righteous people with love for all humanity, and above all longs for the perfect, righteous human being and the real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet. [The Twelfth Imam] Oh Almighty God, all men and women are your creatures and you have ordained their guidance and salvation. Bestow upon humanity that thirst for justice, the perfect human being promised to all by you, and make us among his followers among those who strive for his return and his cause."
If you don\'t know the coming of the 12th Imam according to Islam is supposed to signify the end of the world. Who knows - maybe this nut thinks he is the 12th Imam. :eek: What is even scarier is that fact he got a standing ovation from the General Assembly. This guy is pushing for a war and he just might get it if he continues down the path he is on now.
Now Chavez is calling Bush the devil... :rolleyes:
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Good column in the NY Times (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/18/AR2006091800992.html)
It\'s almost laughable. In a quote from the distant past the pope says that basically Islam is violent and spread by the sword. In response? Muslims demand a retraction, conversion by the pope to Islam, or they bring out the sword.
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Good column in the NY Times (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/18/AR2006091800992.html)
It\'s almost laughable. In a quote from the distant past the pope says that basically Islam is violent and spread by the sword. In response? Muslims demand a retraction, conversion by the pope to Islam, or they bring out the sword.
Exactly - I think that Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus was absolutely right.
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Seriously though, the Pope\'s remarks have proven to be accurate about Islam. Luckee you can not compare present day Christians with these people.
I can\'t compare? At least once a year somewhere in the country, an abortion clinic gets blown up or set on fire by these nuts.
Now Chavez is calling Bush the devil... :rolleyes:
Bush is the Devil
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Besides the odd abortion clinic - what else do they do? Behead people? Suicide bombings? Fly planes into buildings? Stop apoligizing for Islamic fundamentalism - it is nowhere near the same as Christian fundamentalism. You are trying to compare apples and oranges.
Bush is the devil? Only according to banana republic dicators, Islamic fundamentalists and the deranged left.
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So you\'re comparing a once a year violent act of arson against property with the daily attacks/responses now associated with Muslim extremists? The murder of elderly nuns? (http://www.nysun.com/article/39999)
Where are the Christian murders, threats, riots, protests, arsons in response to Madonna spoofing the crucifiction (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTM3NTMwOThkZGZjZWE5MzkyODg0NTlkZWQ3ZTdhZDU=)?
Some muslims are not afraid to speak out:
perhaps if violence continues after the pope\'s apology, we deserve the remarks (http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20060919.@01&irec=0)
An open letter from an arabic American (http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/one_arabs_apology_opedcolumnists_emilio_karim_dabul.htm) - This one is particularily good.
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Besides the odd abortion clinic - what else do they do? Behead people? Suicide bombings? Fly planes into buildings? Stop apoligizing for Islamic fundamentalism - it is nowhere near the same as Christian fundamentalism. You are trying to compare apples and oranges.
Bush is the devil? Only according to banana republic dicators, Islamic fundamentalists and the deranged left.
Odd? some years they hit 5-10 clinics. They are just as nutty in their beliefs as those muslims.
You point out where i apologized..... I dont give a shit about them.
I was comparing two nutty religions as they do have some similarities that exsist between the extremes some members of each are willing to go "in the name of god"
As far as Bush..he is a devil to everyone not on his side. He is finally losing his party members as well. I think that says alot. You wanna talk about bush a little..keep it on hold..Im starting another thread.
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So you\'re comparing a once a year violent act of arson against property with the daily attacks/responses now associated with Muslim extremists? The murder of elderly nuns? (http://www.nysun.com/article/39999)
Where are the Christian murders, threats, riots, protests, arsons in response to Madonna spoofing the crucifiction (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YTM3NTMwOThkZGZjZWE5MzkyODg0NTlkZWQ3ZTdhZDU=)?
Some muslims are not afraid to speak out:
perhaps if violence continues after the pope\'s apology, we deserve the remarks (http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20060919.@01&irec=0)
An open letter from an arabic American (http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/one_arabs_apology_opedcolumnists_emilio_karim_dabul.htm) - This one is particularily good.
Thats fine that muslims extremists probably far outnumber christian extremists. The fact they do commit more attrocities. I dont like either group so all of this arguing is beyond any point someone wants to make.
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And get your facts straight before you post your opinion on the prevalence of attacks on abortion clinics.
Article with ACTUAL NUMBERS (http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm) for attacks, threats, murders, arsons, etc. From 1989 to 2004. Note the decline?
Simple fact is extremists cause problems wherever they are, but you will find that muslims commit atrocities against \'outsiders\' in muslim countries that ARE NOT mirrored in non-muslim countries against muslims. I\'ve yet to read about an elderly muslim missionary being dragged from his mosque into the street and shot in the back in Wisconsin.
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Thats fine that muslims extremists probably far outnumber christian extremists. The fact they do commit more attrocities. I dont like either group so all of this arguing is beyond any point someone wants to make.
Probably? Probably? What reality are you living in? Your blind hatred for Christianity sickens me. The fact that you would rather turn a debate about Islam into one about Christianity shows how clueless you are in regards to the situation threating the world today. Here is a clue Christianity and the US are not the number one threat to stability in the world. I know you hate both, so why do I even bother trying to point out the obvious?
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I said it happens every year..where was I incorrect? Except for possibly 05 and 06 which isnt shown.
MAybe i was incorrect when I said some years they hit 5-10 clinics...
oh wait..no not then either.
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Probably? Probably? What reality are you living in? Your blind hatred for Christianity sickens me. The fact that you would rather turn a debate about Islam into one about Christianity shows how clueless you are in regards to the situation threating the world today. Here is a clue Christianity and the US are not the number one threat to stability in the world. I know you hate both, so why do I even bother trying to point out the obvious?
Im glad I have sickend you today..my job has been fulfilled. I hate any religious extremist the same no matter what "god" they do it in the name of.
Want me to bring other religious extremists groups into this as well to make you and your christian buddies feel better about this? I suspect that it\'s the fact I mention christian and the fact I believe you must be one since you are getting upset.
relax, it\'s only a religion.
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Im glad I have sickend you today..my job has been fulfilled. I hate any religious extremist the same no matter what "god" they do it in the name of.
Want me to bring other religious extremists groups into this as well to make you and your christian buddies feel better about this? I suspect that it\'s the fact I mention christian and the fact I believe you must be one since you are getting upset.
relax, it\'s only a religion.
In case you forgot, I am not religious at all. Just don\'t like the bashing of Christianity because it is the trendy leftist thing to do now a days. The problem I have with your posts is whenever Islam is mentioned you try and turn it around into something negative about Christianity - which in context is completely off topic. Like I said you are comparing apples and oranges.
How did the Pope quoting some Emperor\'s remarks about Islam and the worldwide riots over it lead to abortion clinic bombings? I don\'t see the connection on the scale you would like it to be.
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In case you forgot, I am not religious at all. Just don\'t like the bashing of Christianity because it is the trendy leftist thing to do now a days. The problem I have with your posts is whenever Islam is mentioned you try and turn it around into something negative about Christianity - which in context is completely off topic. Like I said you are comparing apples and oranges.
How did the Pope quoting some Emperor\'s remarks about Islam and the worldwide riots over it lead to abortion clinic bombings? I don\'t see the connection on the scale you would like it to be.
I have no idea to be honest, just seems like it. I, myself, is not a religious individual either. Religion is the cause of most evil since the beginning of time. Like I asked before..want me to bash some other groups...would that make you feel better? I\'ve got something to say about pretty much all of them. :)
You go look for posts where I always turn it into something about christianity. I did that this morning.
Off-topic or not..isn\'t that your job to handle mr. mod? if so, dont just pick out when i go off-topic. As practicaly every thread in here has a gang of off-topic comments.
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Off-topic or not..isn\'t that your job to handle mr. mod? if so, dont just pick out when i go off-topic. As practicaly every thread in here has a gang of off-topic comments.
Don\'t see what this has to to with the actual merits of arguements in this thread.
As to you \'getting the numbers right\' your right. You did use carefull qualifiers, and I missed it (\'some years\'). I was just confused by your comparison between two things when you obviously know the massive difference in scale they represent, as well as the massive difference in severity.
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i was repling to giga about something he said about being off-topic.
Im sure if i can find some info on buddahist extremist it would be lower than the christian ones.
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I have no idea to be honest, just seems like it. I, myself, is not a religious individual either. Religion is the cause of most evil since the beginning of time. Like I asked before..want me to bash some other groups...would that make you feel better? I\'ve got something to say about pretty much all of them. :)
You go look for posts where I always turn it into something about christianity. I did that this morning.
Off-topic or not..isn\'t that your job to handle mr. mod? if so, dont just pick out when i go off-topic. As practicaly every thread in here has a gang of off-topic comments.
If you are like myself and despise organized religion I don\'t understand why you don\'t agree with most of the posts here that basically feel Muslims are overreacting? Instead you launch a diatribe about Christianity...
I really don\'t care that you go off topic - as you said everyone does, but considering your stance on religion and what this topic pertains to I would think you would be in complete agreement with Gman\'s original post. Its one thing to make a passing comment about religion over all, but it quite another to try and compare Islamic fundamentalism to any other major religious movement in the world today when it comes to senseless violence.
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I dont have to just go along with the masses just b/c I agree. Often other feel sympathetic to those the muslims abuse without ever thinking about what these other groups do as well.
ken lay stole millions...johnny b bad stole a car. both are scum thieves. Just one was a greater scale thief.
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luckee just like to argue for the sake of it.
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that doesnt hurt either, espescially when it is so easy to pull one out of most people in here.
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that doesnt hurt either, espescially when it is so easy to pull one out of most people in here.
I\'ve never understood the lure of just trolling in forums arguing for the sake of arguing. You end up taking positions based on so little merit.
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whelp i don\'t know what he said, but if he did say something rather insulting about the religion, he needs to apologize, we all know that for the most part that those that study islam are not violent, only the extremists....it\'s all about respect. even tho some in the muslim world do overreact whenever these scenarios pop up, he did the right thing by apologizing. i never understood why so-many praise the pope anyway, i mean i respect he\'s a holy person and all, but why are thousands maybe millions of people fainting and crying when they see him? he\'s just a human being like you or I....same goes for people who think the preacher at church has all the answers for their problems...they don\'t...they can provide assistance and some guidance for your problems and that\'s it...
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http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
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whenever they show the kids..feels hopeless.
That generation is going to be around for a long time. As long as they are around, and they have kids, it will never end.
Not really sure what the documentary will try to show though. Most want more out of an audience than just acknowleding something.
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my pc at work wanted me to download the player to view it, but i don\'t download anything on this pc,...but just lookin\' at that pic with the kid raisin the gun in the air pisses me off,these people really need to just settle down somewhere,...damn these people dedicate their whole lives to this s**t....too much time on thier hands,..how about doin something constructive with your lives instead of destructive?....idiots.....sheeit i know that the u.s. probably in some way or form treat some of these countries unfairly due to their foreign policies, but to dedicate your whole life and your family to such an ignorant cause?.....there are racist white folk livin\' in america on a daily basis, yet you don\'t see me on a crusade to kill whitey do you?.....;)....seriously these people just need to get a life...
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my pc at work wanted me to download the player to view it, but i don\'t download anything on this pc,...but just lookin\' at that pic with the kid raisin the gun in the air pisses me off,these people really need to just settle down somewhere,...damn these people dedicate their whole lives to this s**t....too much time on thier hands,..how about doin something constructive with your lives instead of destructive?....idiots.....sheeit i know that the u.s. probably in some way or form treat some of these countries unfairly due to their foreign policies, but to dedicate your whole life and your family to such an ignorant cause?.....there are racist white folk livin\' in america on a daily basis, yet you don\'t see me on a crusade to kill whitey do you?.....;)....seriously these people just need to get a life...
it is pretty interesting that we cant grasp their concept of life..and vice versa. They cant grasp ours because theyre told something thats not true. We just cant grasp the people\'s "dedication" (not the best word) to religion. People like osama are just using religion to their advantage. Another reason i get hopeless about the whole situation.
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They\'re taught hatred since birth. It\'s really quite frightening. Seeing mass hordes of people screaming "Death To America!" or "Death To Israel" deeply disturbs me. And the little girls begging for weapons so they can "kill every last Jew" is just...yeah. You gotta watch the documentary. You\'ll be like "holy fuck" the entire time. And it\'s not these kids\' fault. It\'s the stupid fucks that teach them hatred all their life. These people have no mercy when it comes to killing. Hatred, it seems, is all they know. And now they\'re spouting that bullshit over there of "convert to Islam or die"...
my pc at work wanted me to download the player to view it, but i don\'t download anything on this pc
Dude, it\'s just QuickTime. But like you said, it\'s a work PC, so I don\'t know what they allow on their computers.
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whelp i don\'t know what he said, but if he did say something rather insulting about the religion, he needs to apologize, we all know that for the most part that those that study islam are not violent, only the extremists....it\'s all about respect. even tho some in the muslim world do overreact whenever these scenarios pop up, he did the right thing by apologizing. i never understood why so-many praise the pope anyway, i mean i respect he\'s a holy person and all, but why are thousands maybe millions of people fainting and crying when they see him? he\'s just a human being like you or I....same goes for people who think the preacher at church has all the answers for their problems...they don\'t...they can provide assistance and some guidance for your problems and that\'s it...
He really didn\'t say anything insulting, he was quoting a medeival Byzantine Emperor who was fighting against the Muslims. To paraphrase, Mohammed used violence and the sword to convert people to Islam....which was true.
USAToday: [COLOR="Red"]The pontiff, speaking in St. Peter\'s Square under tighter-than-usual security prompted by threats, said he quoted a 14th-century letter to encourage interfaith dialogue, not spark controversy. The letter written by an emperor said the prophet Mohammed\'s teachings brought things "evil and inhuman" and he "spread by the sword the faith he preached."[/COLOR]
However, to start a speech like that wasn\'t very diplomatic. It\'s not the Pope\'s opinion....he was quoting someone else.
However, the Pope should have known that millions of Muslims around the world are easily baited into rioting just from cartoons or bringing up the past about Islam. One can bring up atrocities by Christians and you bet there won\'t be riots or mosques being burnt down.
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^^^but c\'mon gman to read something like that and not expect some type of backlash?..:rolleyes:..clearly he was indirectly calling islam evil...."well uh i didn\'t say it,but this emperor did"...like the old saying goes, if you have nothing nice to say, don\'t say it at all,..and this was not the forum to start such a debate...
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Interesting that you \'expect\' a backlash now for verbal critisizm of Islam. I also wonder how many people expected this kind of backlash, with riots, murders, threats - if this is \'expected\' backlash then there is something to what the quote says about Islam.
I don\'t expect the same reaction from Christians, buddhists, hindus, etc. every time they are insulted by some prominent Mullah or by some quote about how violent and horrific they acted in the past (crusades, wars).
Really says something about the religions when expectations live up to or down to themselves.
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Interesting that you \'expect\' a backlash now for verbal critisizm of Islam. I also wonder how many people expected this kind of backlash, with riots, murders, threats - if this is \'expected\' backlash then there is something to what the quote says about Islam.
I don\'t expect the same reaction from Christians, buddhists, hindus, etc. every time they are insulted by some prominent Mullah or by some quote about how violent and horrific they acted in the past (crusades, wars).
Really says something about the religions when expectations live up to or down to themselves.
well i already mentioned how some muslims overreact when this happens,...my thing is that, every prominent religious leader, not just the pope, needs to respect each others religion. Now i really don\'t know who the top dog is in other religions, but clearly the pope is one of the top dogs in the catholic field, and he kinda stepped outta line by sayin that. it\'s ok for the little people underneath these religions to spout which religion is better and such, because that will always happen, but i feel as one of the leaders in any religion, you need to teach your own beliefs, while respecting others...that goes for ANY religious leader...
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my thing is that, every prominent religious leader, not just the pope, needs to respect each others religion.
"Convert to Islam or die" is not respectful of other religions. And when the President of Iran himself is encouraging "death to Israel", something is wrong here.
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These are funny.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Flane.gif&hash=691a94431cc1f770c8407d3c66cf934e811413a3)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Ffairrington.gif&hash=3d7339792531285c5179ff6e776bf8ff86c9339b)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Fbrookins.jpg&hash=9f527e95f3670e4919abe56075c19208c3b67192)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Fcrowe.gif&hash=db4a0ebf692d00feed0acd422ca22596bcef79ab)
various other satirical cartoons on this issue (http://cagle.com/news/PopeRemarks/main.asp)
Sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words.
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It\'s funny, yet frightening.
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Amazing that my retort was already in the post you were replying to.
^^^but c\'mon gman to read something like that and not expect some type of backlash?..:rolleyes:..clearly he was indirectly calling islam evil...."well uh i didn\'t say it,but this emperor did"...like the old saying goes, if you have nothing nice to say, don\'t say it at all,..and this was not the forum to start such a debate...
However, to start a speech like that wasn\'t very diplomatic. It\'s not the Pope\'s opinion....he was quoting someone else.
However, the Pope should have known that millions of Muslims around the world are easily baited into rioting just from cartoons or bringing up the past about Islam. One can bring up atrocities by Christians and you bet there won\'t be riots or mosques being burnt down.
I think the Pope did have a slightly hidden agenda. Bait the Muslims into riots...that way Islamic leaders will say, "You know what? WE ARE VIOLENT! Let\'s talk."
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These are funny.
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Flane.gif&hash=691a94431cc1f770c8407d3c66cf934e811413a3)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Ffairrington.gif&hash=3d7339792531285c5179ff6e776bf8ff86c9339b)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Fbrookins.jpg&hash=9f527e95f3670e4919abe56075c19208c3b67192)
(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jihadwatch.org%2Fcrowe.gif&hash=db4a0ebf692d00feed0acd422ca22596bcef79ab)
various other satirical cartoons on this issue (http://cagle.com/news/PopeRemarks/main.asp)
Sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words.
Humerous and yet so true.