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Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: clips on October 20, 2006, 08:28:38 PM
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every now and then i will post some news comin out of iraq..lately iraq has been all over the news,..and now the latest is that al sadr\'s militia has taken over a southern city in iraq, after u.s. troops went in there and cleaned it out....Now i know the media can make things bigger than they are, but as far as iraq is concerned i don\'t they are fabricating stories in terms of gloom and frustration...i don\'t think we\'ll ever leave iraq, it\'s just a big mess...how can rumsfield tell the iraqi gov\'t to take control when the u.s. themselves can\'t control it?....thoughts?...
http://www.yahoo.com/s/135782/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061021/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq
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Iraq in the news lately? I dunno man. I\'ve seen it on Fox News every day since the war broke out.
Yeah, Iraq is a mess. Maybe it is time for someone else to step in. I dunno.
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i wonder what saddam must be thinking right now,..i mean i know he has his legal problems, but i\'m sure he\'s aware of what\'s goin\' on within iraq,...kinda weird how somebody with such a weak military kept these people in check when he was in charge, while the greatest military faction in the world cannot maintain any type of control....
i went on youtube about 2 weeks ago and randomly pulled up various issues regarding the iraq war,...from iraqi snipers, car bombs, iraqi fighting,...i saw one short film on there where there was a pointcheck, and there was this black car in the background,...long story short the car pulled up for the check and the u.s. trooper walked up to the car,...some words was stated, and for a quick second you could see the u.s. trooper step away from the car but it blew up destroying everything within at least a 500 ft radius...truly sad...
as bad as i want our troops to come home i know they can\'t leave cause iraq will really fall into an even deeper black hole....and it doesn\'t help that they shouldn\'t have been there in the first place....
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such sad stories.
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When I was shouting the war in Iraq didnt end in 2003, that it will be more devastating for Iraq and that it will give uprise to more "terrorist" attacks nobody believed me.
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you mean \'nobody cared\'
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By some yes. Which is an even worse thing to do since they applauded the war and didnt care about the consequences in humanity.
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define "humanity"
the US tried to clean up a cess pool
failure is moot, it\'s the attempt that matters
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US? You mean...the US casual citizen? No. The citizens are doomed to swallow whatever the few throw at them.
It was just a handful of few who wanted to satisfy either political or economic interests and never care about the negative consequences on others which were pretty evident. The failure for them wasnt the creation of a new democratic regime in which people would prosper. The failure for them was that they didnt satisfy all of their interests...YET.
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^^^
add a couple "praise allah"s in there and he sounds like a jihadist...
see?
US? You mean...the US casual citizen? No. The citizens are doomed to swallow whatever the few throw at them, praise be to Allah.
It was just a handful of few who wanted to satisfy either political or economic interests and never care about the negative consequences on others which were pretty evident. By the grace of Allah,The failure for them wasnt the creation of a new democratic regime in which people would prosper. The failure for them was that they didnt satisfy all of their Zionist interests...YET. Praise Allah.
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It\'s remarkably lame to brand someone as a sympathizer of "the enemy" because their post is poorly worded, or because you disagree with the content. Why don\'t you post something worthwhile on this subject, instead of just poking at the whipping boy.
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Praise be to Allah, he means not what he says.
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It\'s remarkably lame to brand someone as a sympathizer of "the enemy" because their post is poorly worded, or because you disagree with the content. Why don\'t you post something worthwhile on this subject, instead of just poking at the whipping boy.
It\'s also remarkably lame to not be able to realize when someone is just having a bit of fun in an otherwise unremarkable thread. I like unicorn, even if his views are smacking of the uninformed euro-pussy variety. And show me where I branded him anything.
And I always thought you were the whipping boy here.:gfight: :fighting:
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lol, euro-pussy
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i wonder what saddam must be thinking right now,..i mean i know he has his legal problems, but i\'m sure he\'s aware of what\'s goin\' on within iraq,...kinda weird how somebody with such a weak military kept these people in check when he was in charge, while the greatest military faction in the world cannot maintain any type of control....
That\'s because he used fear, intimidation and murder as well as mass murder to keep them in check. We don\'t use those tactics in the military. Saddam no doubt needed to be taken out of power though. Glad he\'s rotting in jail. He\'s one of the few people I\'d love to see in jail for his life. After all he did, a quick death just doesn\'t seem right. They should put him in a prison in the US and let some big guy named Bubba make him his bitch. Now that would be punishment.
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^^^
add a couple "praise allah"s in there and he sounds like a jihadist...
see?
Yeah thats how propaganda works. Now I ll be arrested for being a terrorist
It\'s also remarkably lame to not be able to realize when someone is just having a bit of fun in an otherwise unremarkable thread. I like unicorn, even if his views are smacking of the uninformed euro-pussy variety. And show me where I branded him anything.
And I always thought you were the whipping boy here.:gfight: :fighting:
Just because you are misinformed it doesnt mean I am uninformed ;)
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It\'s also remarkably lame to not be able to realize when someone is just having a bit of fun in an otherwise unremarkable thread.
Ok, I accept that you were "just having a bit of fun." If you weren\'t serious, please save your comedy posts for Off Topic where they belong. Not in a thread about our war against Islamic terrorism. Thanks.
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That\'s because he used fear, intimidation and murder as well as mass murder to keep them in check. We don\'t use those tactics in the military. Saddam no doubt needed to be taken out of power though. Glad he\'s rotting in jail. He\'s one of the few people I\'d love to see in jail for his life. After all he did, a quick death just doesn\'t seem right. They should put him in a prison in the US and let some big guy named Bubba make him his bitch. Now that would be punishment.
but that\'s not why went in there,..not because he was bad, or a brutal dictactator even tho eventually it turned into some twisted liberation mission,...we went in there because he supposedly had wmd\'s....i think leaving him in power would have kept the region stabilized, as it is now, what 3 yrs later, over 2700 american lives lost and the situation is actually waaay worse than it was before we even went in there?.....al sadr\'s militia bombed three iraqi police stations and took over the whole city after the u.s. went in there and cleaned it up....
how can bush, rumsfield and others constantly say they are winning the war? Not too long ago the violence wouldn\'t come anywhere near the green zone(baghdad) now violence happens there on a daily basis....every time bush talks he has that stupid-ass smirk on his face like he doesn\'t have a clue....i think bush is just riding in cruise control until the next prez comes thru...cause he is leaving behind a catastrophic mess.....
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And if you ask Iraqis who have been tortured by Saddam, and jailed for years how they feel now compared to then the answer is just as bad only in different conditions (if not worse).
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"do you smell that? Smells like...Vietnam..."
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Vietnam was necessary
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I agree...I was just saying it feels like a grinding quagmire of despair where the enemy is not defined.
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Vietnam was necessary
Ha hah hah haaaa....
Wait a minute... tell me why it was "necessary." Even you with your terse outbursts cannot post a crazy illogical statement like that and then expect people to accept it without some explanation.
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the US tried to clean up a cess pool
failure is moot, it\'s the attempt that matters.
:fighting:
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I was asking why "Vietnam was necessary..." Are you saying Vietnam was a cess pool that needed to be cleaned up?
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define "humanity"
the US tried to clean up a cess pool
failure is moot, it\'s the attempt that matters
Very true, but where is the attempt to clean up the larger cess pool that was created?
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yes, Core.
that\'s thier problem, luckee.
can\'t help people that can\'t help themselves.
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so would you say its time to leave?
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not yet
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yes, Core.
that\'s thier problem, luckee.
can\'t help people that can\'t help themselves.
You clearly dont have any idea about what was going on before and after the war.
Oh and they got bombed and killed, and they still do.Its stupid not to expect reactions and fight backs. And they also know what the US is after from Iraq.
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now i realize the things LIC said are about you are quiet true, uni
:(
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now i realize the things LIC said are about you are quiet true, uni
:(
Yeah but LIC said the same thing to everyone :(
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now i realize the things LIC said are about you are quiet true, uni
:(
1) Even I dont understand your English there
2)Post a reply that has something to do with the subject. But you have no arguements anyways.
3)In case you didnt know there were lots of research on the state of middle east since the 70s and it was KNOWN since then that a civil war would brake out in case Saddam was taken out.
It was never the oppression of Iraqis the problem that politicians and military reckognised in Iraq and in general the middle east.
It was always the conflict between Sunni\'s and Shiah\'s and the US needs these conflicts between Arabs to keep them at bay so they would never manage to have complete control of the area and their sources.
They even proposed geopolitical maps that would fragment the middle east (and Turkey) into states with US/NATO bases placed in them, divided to various groups (Kurds, Shiahs, Sunnis, Armenians etc) but each state would depend on the US.
Problem is they underestimated the cinditions, and like in the past have skrewed things up, just like they did with the "creation" of Saddam, the rise of Khomeni (and the loss of one of their most important military allies: Iran), Bin Laden\'s revolt, and now the chaos in Iraq. But thast what happens when interests are put above everything else. You end up skrewing yourself at the process.
It seems everyone knew that except...You?
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And they also know what the US is after from Iraq.
what is the US after?
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Read last post
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arguements
reckognised
cinditions
skrewed
thast
skrewing
:thumb:
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:thumb:
Oh look we have a spelling competition
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The spelling competition was an allegory.
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interpretation of that "allegory"= avoidance
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oil....
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oil....
[Dave Chappelle]Oil. What are you cooking bitch? Oil?.......*knocks pitcher of water over*LETS GET OUT OF HERE!!![/Dave Chappelle]
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i wouldn\'t say that they were after oil,....but the u.s. did want some type of presence(spel) in the area, and with the toppel of saddam, i\'m sure they were thinking somewhere in the not too distant future, we could build bases in or around iraq,....if the situation ever develops into some type of civil gov\'t, expect to see u.s. bases in the area...to me the oil was just an added bonus...
i\'ve always stated all along that the reason bush went into iraq was some type of personal vendetta against saddam,...since bush sr. never finished the job back in 91...so he used 911 as an excuse to go in there why?..imo...
1. personal vendetta
2. he thought that this mission would be a walk in the park...
it spoke volumes at the time when then sec of state Colin Powell stated that there was no reason to go into iraq, he, bush and rumsfield was at odds for the longest time....ultimately they ended up strong-arming him into the u.n. presentation.....funny how he retired shortly after doing that....
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just came from my sister\'s house and my brother-in-law was showin\' me some more iraqi sniper video from youtube....let me just say this,....i know both sides play the propaganda game,..but seriously guys,...the s**t these snipers are doin to to our soldiers is just really f**ked up...there\'s the one sniper who calls himself "judas"...and he just has video afrter video of him just picking off american soldiers at will....he states that he\'s tired of how america tries to portray their soldiers as invincible like in the movies,....he states that the troops are overrun with fear and dismay with every sniper shot...
i don\'t say this to glamorize this insurgent sniper, but watching those video\'s it just seems that our troops don\'t stand a chance over there,...i mean he\'s picking them off in armored tanks, armored humvees,...even within crowded areas on the street,...in one shot he blew bits and pieces of what seemed to be the soldiers head and helmet,..really depressing stuff.....at the end of the tape it showed how many troops he killed wounded missed etc....
y\'know i can only imagine what our troops are goin\' thru over there,..even with all that armor they are being picked off like flies over there..:(....yea yea i know they signed up for it and that\'s a chance you take when you sign up, but s**t you better put your troops in harms way for a good reason,..now iraq is worse than even when saddam was runnin it.....
hearin\' about troops dying on the news everyday is waay different than seeing them being slaughtered on youtube.....and all the prez has to say is that we can\'t give up we gotta stay until iraq is stabilized....i\'m sure years from now when bush is like 75 or 80, he\'ll finally admit that iraq was a failure,...they always admit s**t like that years down the road when they aren\'t in office anymore...i know i\'m rantin\' but just seein our troops lookin like they don\'t stand a chance over there,is depressing....
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Ok I saw that video and obviously you didn\'t look closely at it. Half of the clips are Iraqi security forces not US soldiers. Secondly, the snipers are terrible shots - they miss at least 25 percent of the time or they target the body - the only times they seem to get head shot are when they are pretty damn close, otherwise they target the torso or just plain miss. Thirdly, I noticed they recycled some of the clips like 3 times throughout the whole thing.
Lastly, I think most of those where you see the guy knocked down - were exactly that - his body armor or helmet absorbed the blow. You are acting like these turban head snipers are good and decimating our troops - they aren\'t. Try watching some of our counter sniper squads in action - they are the real deal. It is propaganda that you buy into and I guess it works on some people.
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^^^so i guess you\'re also buyin\' into the propoganda that we\'re winnin\' over there? I already stated both sides play the prop game, but giga clearly those troops which even tho half of \'em may be u.s. troops, it doesn\'t dismiss the fact that for the most part they are on post or just hangin out, and these guys are picking them off at will. I don\'t doubt that our guys are experts at what they do, i\'m sure that they are the finest around. I honestly must say though that when i did a search on american snipers in iraq, i would come across a few where they would show some troops shooting and yelling "hell yea", but i never seen any physical shots shown in detail in the way the iraqi snipers are basically showing it to you as it\'s bein done...*maybe i need to do a more detailed search*
Again i\'m not glamorizin\' these snipers, i just want our troops outta there,....but the minute we leave, iraq will spiral into even more carnage. you\'ve got sunni\'s fighting shites and vice versa, and then you have us in the middle of this thing we created, i honestly don\'t know how we are gonna get out of there without iraq being overrun with terrorists and dictators that would make even saddam at this point look like president carter....
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clips, you\'re doing the same exact thing though. The video was edited to make it seem like they were picking people off "at will" when in reality there are more than likely a lot of fuck ups, but they clipped together the ones that landed.
You\'re technically "buying into the propoganda" that we\'re losing. Maybe we are or arent losing, but the matter is is that you\'re basing your decision on propoganda.
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hmmm^^^ i agree with you to a point, and yes it could very well be true in the way they made the tape that they were not hittin these troops with every shot....but i didn\'t base my decision that we\'re losing on propoganda....you can clearly see that every day on the news. Iraq is a failed initiative....people are being kidnapped and murdered at will, and almost 4 yrs later even with all of our superior might, the situation is at the brink of civil war,*something that was not happenin\' when saddam was in charge* then the u.s. has the nerve to say "well uh the iraqi\'s need to step up to the plate"....bush was wrong all the way around on this one,...it\'s sad really,....there was a time where there would be no violence at all near or around baghdad(green zone),...now violence happens there on the norm, even with heavy u.s, presence.
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the situation is at the brink of civil war
necessary evil.
look at the countries that have benefited from a civil war.
it means the common man/woman has the means, will, and ability to stand up for what they believe is right.
they had no chance when saddam was dictating.
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I think if a civil war erupts, its gonna be worse than anything we\'ve experienced in there so far. The sunnis and shi\'ites hate each other and will do some pretty gruesome stuff to each other. I don\'t get it though. They\'re both muslim people and believe the same basic stuff. Its like Protestants and Catholics fighting. It happens and I don\'t see why. Its the same core beliefs. Put the stupid differences aside and celebrate with each other what you have in common.
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necessary evil.
look at the countries that have benefited from a civil war.
it means the common man/woman has the means, will, and ability to stand up for what they believe is right.
they had no chance when saddam was dictating.
* Iraqis couldn\'t overthrow Saddam Hussein on their own, so we had to do it for them.
* Iraqis couldn\'t bring an end to the civil war on their own, so we have to stay there and do it for them.
* What makes you think that if by some miracle we are able to institute a functional, secure Iraqi government, that the Iraqis will be able to maintain it? They demonstrate again and again that they\'re not interested. This is OUR dream, not theirs.
I honestly don\'t know why we give a shit about that country. Conservatives only talk up the great "liberation" of the Iraqi people because their President was the one who started this. They feel they have to continue supporting it because they don\'t want to admit they were wrong.
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I think if a civil war erupts, its gonna be worse than anything we\'ve experienced in there so far. The sunnis and shi\'ites hate each other and will do some pretty gruesome stuff to each other. I don\'t get it though. They\'re both muslim people and believe the same basic stuff. Its like Protestants and Catholics fighting. It happens and I don\'t see why. Its the same core beliefs. Put the stupid differences aside and celebrate with each other what you have in common.
I just read something about this the other day and cant find the link again but what do you mean IF?
One day we are helping al sadr\'s men by fight those that attack his group. then the next sadr\'s men are attacking US troops.
I think it is a sunni shite thing if I remember correctly.
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heh,..pretty funny cartoon...:laughing:...look at how the iraqi dude is lookin\' at bush! :laughing:
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/analysis/toons/2006/12/01/mikula/index.html
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necessary evil.
look at the countries that have benefited from a civil war.
it means the common man/woman has the means, will, and ability to stand up for what they believe is right.
they had no chance when saddam was dictating.
i think i kinda agree with this...i mean if you\'re sayin\' let the civil war happen, withdraw our troops and when the dust settles, hopefully there will be a stable gov\'t in place.....then i agree.....that is if i\'m understanding you correctly.
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i think i kinda agree with this...i mean if you\'re sayin\' let the civil war happen, withdraw our troops and when the dust settles, hopefully there will be a stable gov\'t in place.....then i agree.....that is if i\'m understanding you correctly.
I wouldn\'t count on a stable government happening. I\'m afraid it may end up like some African countries. No stability no matter what.
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I wouldn\'t count on a stable government happening. I\'m afraid it may end up like some African countries. No stability no matter what.
thats a possibility. Not all civil wars just end in a "reasonable" amount of time.
it might not be fair to say this, but it honestly seems like if we left, the area is impressionable as hell and could easily get taken over by some guy with similar power and charisma like saddam. If a "Lincoln", good kind of guy got recognition, he\'d probably be killed. But if it was a dictator type of person with people with guns, I could see them having a pretty big impact and even get people to follow them just because people are probably tired of having no government.
then again..i just wrote an hour and a half worth of essays for a final so iv been writing/typing out of my ass all day
I really think its going to take a couple years for us to be out of there.
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If a "Lincoln", good kind of guy got recognition, he\'d probably be killed.
You mean kind of like Lincoln? ;)
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You mean kind of like Lincoln? ;)
touche,lol.
i meant before having an impact
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i was going to start a new thread, but since this is related to iraq, i\'ll just put this story here. I guess it this guy has seen enough of the war, albeit he went about this the wrong way.....i have a feeling many that are bound to take a re-tour of iraq feel this way....i\'ve heard on the news that the military will soon be at it\'s "breaking point" if a different approach on iraq isn\'t taken soon....thoughts?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/27/reservist.shot.ap/index.html
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I wouldn\'t count on a stable government happening. I\'m afraid it may end up like some African countries. No stability no matter what.
That will never happen b/c we want too much in that area. So even if we did pull out and that destabilization occurred...the us would quickly step back in. They want influence and oil in that region. What does Africa offer (IE...nothing) other than what we dont already have a grip on. ( IE....Diamonds)
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That will never happen b/c we want too much in that area. So even if we did pull out and that destabilization occurred...the us would quickly step back in. They want influence and oil in that region. What does Africa offer (IE...nothing) other than what we dont already have a grip on. ( IE....Diamonds)
They have some good oil reserves there......but we have influence in those countries as well. I wonder if the US uses alternate fuels, IE hydrogen or ethanol (which is the biggest now), would we really need those oil reserves in other countries? Would we still want to influence them or just say "fuck it" like in Africa.
At one point, Africa was the place of European influence in the 1800s. They got lots of shit from there (can\'t remember what it was though. Didn\'t pay attention during those lectures, lol) and that\'s why the boundaries are drawn the way they are. They\'ve been those boundaries since the 1800s and cuts the tribes up between many countries. I personally think that the boundaries of nations need to be redrawn in Africa instead of the country boundaries now. Thats one reason for some of these civil wars, tribal warfare and control of the country by certain tribes. My 2 cents atleast.
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plus not to mention.. "George Bush doesnt care about black ppl"
ROFL
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plus not to mention.. "George Bush doesnt care about black ppl"
ROFL
Touche ;)