PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Astroboy2112 on December 04, 2000, 10:06:30 PM
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Dreamcast is right now the undisputed king of next gen gaming. With such innovative titles as Jet Grind Radio ( graffiti meets inline skating), Seaman ( where else can you talk with a fish?!), Samba de Amigo (rhythm game with maracas), Skyes of Arcadia ( all of you psx rpg fans Most play this aweinspiring game) and a whole bunch of others (shenmue, Grandia2,quake 3 online, capcom vs snk,SF3,power stone,etc). There is little doubt in the eyes of most educated gamers that DC is simply the best choice for playing the best next gen games available NOW!
So if DC has better games, better price, online play, etc why some gamers are not giving Sega a chance and are still choosing Ps2 over it? Well, it seems that a lot of this fans keep saying to themselves "DC is better now, but wait until next year!The Ps2 is a better long term investment". To me this is just speculation without much thought put into it. Now here is why i think this is bogus:
What does better long term investment means to you? Do you think that a better long term investment could be a system with a few good games out and a bunch of great titles announced? Or do you think that a sytem with a lot of great titles available and a bunch of more great titles annouced is a better long term investment?
To me a long term investment is something that you buy and you keep playing it for years having a great deal of fun. Games like Super Mario,Streets of Rage, Donkey Kong etc are all games that were great buys at the time they came out and proved to be great long term investments. DC titles like Soul Calibur, Jet Grind Radio, Samba, Crazy Taxi, Space Channel 5,Virtua Fighter 3, Power Stone, etc are all games that are incredibly fun to play now and i just now -due to the addictive nature of these titles- that they are going to remain very fun and very playable for years to come. So how can ppl say that DC is not a good long time investment when it already has a bunch of classic timeless gems available?
Also, it seems that ppl tend to forget that there are dozens and dozens of great DC games planned for next year by Sega and it\'s supporters ( Capcom, Infogrames, Ubisoft, Crave,Eidos,Sammy,Activision,etc). The supposed exile of developers from the Sega camp have been greatly exagerated and the hundreads and hundreads and hundreads and more hundreads of developers making Ps2 games have been greatly exagerated as well. So dont believe the naysayers, DC is a fantastic long term investment and the addictive gameplay of it\'s games prove it.
Remember, this industry is contantly changing and it is very difficult to predict things! When Sony came out with psx nobody thought it will last much and look where it is today. Excitment right now is huge for Ps2 but the excitment wont last for ever. If Sony cant deliver the hardware to the masses this Xmas the developers will not deliver the software. With this situation the Ps2 faces nobody can confidently say that Ps2 is the better long term investment.
If you want both the best short/medium/long term invesment go buy a DC NOW with a copy of Skyes of Arcadia. You\'ll be glad you did
Astro :)
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Dude does the PS2 bother you that much.
Your obsessed with the PS2 having success.
Yes the PS2 easily offers a great long term investment, "The Best" is a matter of opinion
Developers are not going to drop games or the PS2 this Xmas they\'ve already invested heavily into there PS2 games, what developers are doing is spending more time on there games and awaiting for the hardware units to get into the hands of consumers
My feeling is developers are not in a hurry to release games for the above reason and that they keep finding new and cool stuff to improve there games, there philosophy is we\'re not going to get the immediate sales numbers we want to lets fine tune it somemoere.
There is just to much support and too many kickass titles coming out
and your comment that the "DC is right now the undisputed king of next gen gaming"
Is just plain pre-mature and only opinion, right now the Dc just has a year head start nothing else
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"Dude does the PS2 bother you that much"
Not really, but i\'m always looking forward to your response/feedback/comments on my threads he,he And also it\'s quite fun to write something in english (not my 1st languague).
I have a bunch of family in the States and it\'s useful to pratice it every once in awhile so when they come to visit (Puerto Rico) i can comunicate with them much easier he,he
Astro :cool:
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Skies is a great game. How far are you Astro?
I consider it to be the Best RPG I\'ve ever played. It even dethroned Final Fantasy 3.
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well...considering that sega fanboys write such a post only because they\'re obsessed by PS2...they give us a "self answer"=YES! PS2 is the best investment fot the future!:)
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I have a DC and PS2, and certainly woulden\'t call my DC next generation, and certainly not a future investment, if you havent got either, get a PS2, it will save you 150 in the long term. or get a x-box and GC if you can wait. DC is wicked I love mine but this imaginary dispute between them is so stupid, PS2 is next-gen, and gives power and quality in one, yeah I know Dc has the games at present im playing them, but PS2 by next year will be king (well maybe entell x-box or GC depending on how good they are) It will have the games which will far surpase in quality and amounts. DC has internet, yeah it costs a bomb and if your reading this you should have it on your PC. and by the time DC has realy good online games to offer so will Sony.
Final verdict: if you have a DC, wicked play it: especially shenmue and MSR, I am, then next year get a PS2 or x-box or GC or all of them. if you dont have a DC, dont get one. It is not a long term console unless your content with it.
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The Dreamcast isn\'t a good long term investment but as it stands now it is the better choice over the PS2, but that is now, your comparing a console which has only recently been released to one which has been out for some time, which is unfair.
Yes as it stands now the dreamcast is a nice package, comes cheap, decent selection of games and the internet. However below are a list of reasons why a Dreamcast isn\'t a good long term investment.
- When the dreamcast was first released it couldn\'t even compeat with the PS1 for sales and in return instandly started to cause a strain on Sega\'s finances.
- A lot of 3rd party publishers have pulled out from developing Dreamcast games, including the likes of EA. Another bad financial year for Sega.
- Sega Japan has recently announced that the future of the Dreamcast is Hazy, with Sega becoming a software producer only and Dreamcast becoming a single chip which can be added to DVD\'s and the like. A hazy comment by Sega of Japan which didn\'t please S:America and S:Europe, not since Christmas has came up and they wanted to see how well the Dreamcast can do againest PS2 with its shortages.
- Own company expirening MASSIVE loses due to the Dreamcast and the future is uncertain.
- The Dreamcast has now been pirated although this can bring software sales up but when Sega are giving shares to people like Kalisto so they don\'t pirate games it is a bad sign of a company in need.
So when Sega themselves admit that the console has a hazy future it doesn\'t look good.
So yes right at this second the dreamcast is a nice purchase and theres probly enough games to warrent it. However compared to the PS2 (although the future is obviously uncertain), the PS2 has promising future, with USB devices, internet access at broadband speed, MANY games and DVD playback.
Thats my 2 cents.
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Astro, you have your reasons, but your reasons are all a matter of opinion. DC does have online games, but some people may not care about online games that much. You say DC has the best games out right now, but someone might think that the games out for it right now suck. Can you tell me your description of some of DC games out right now, "classic timeless gems," is not purely a biased opinion?
DC may be the best long-term investment in your eyes, which is good, but some other people don\'t think the same way as you.
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And who has said TTT can\'t be as addictive as the DC games listed above; and why couldn\'t it prove as much replayability? ;)
One friend of mine has completed Tekken 3 about 300 times! And he isn\'t bored :laughing:
And I love TTT...
But skies of Arkadia; tell me something about it. It interests me a lot.
Shenmue doesn\'t. Tell me why. HEheHEH.. SOrry.. just an opinion ;)
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All you have to do is look at Sega\'s track record and I think you can answer the question yourself. True, Sega is riding the crest of wave but like all good surfers, there bound to wipe out. Sony\'s proven track record and commitment to excellence will ensure that the PS2 will be the system to play for the years to come, until of course the nexy Sony system comes out. Sega has online play now (1yr later) but sony will have the same thing. I feel that it is obvious that sony will catch up and surpass DC and when that happens Sega will give up on this system like every other system they had. The truth of the matter is that installed base is what will determine the long term investment of a system and it is clear that sony has and will always have the vast majority of the installed base thus it just can\'t be ignored by consumers and developers alike. As far as the learning curve for developers; I ask you, "do you really want a guy who complains about learning a new system, developing your games." Obviously any designer worth his salt would jump at the challenge for it will only benefit us the gamers. For the developers who want the easy road, may i suggest that you improve your abilities or go develop for gameboy.
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I think its an okay investment once we\'ve seen some more good games on it.
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i put my money on the ps2.
surely sony will have some clever marketing stragetys in the future. sony arent stupid i think they are verymuch prepared for the xbox and the gamecube
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I personally think that the PS2 is the definite investment next year when all the top titles is released. The DC is a nice machine but it\'s really being pushed to the edge while the PS2 is barely explored.
Just look at GT3. I don\'t see anything on the DC currently(nor in the future) that can match up to that kind of graphical quality at 60fps!
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someone kill all fanboys.
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Kill all fanboys? I\'m seeing a lot of Sony fanboys in this thread here. I can tell. Usually after reading one fanboys post, I start strongly siding with the company he\'s downplaying. I started off siding with Sony after reading Astro\'s post. Then, after seeing your responses, I\'m leaning heavily Sega\'s way. You made me angry.
Where\'s your guarantee that the PS2 will have phenomenal sales? The shortage is killing you. How long can the hype momentum continue? At what point will people become disgusted and buy the machine that is half the price? People are being forced to pay $500 right now. Most retailers will only sell the system in a bundle with 3 games (supply and demand). Yes, they are getting $500 worth of merchandise. But $500 is a great deal of money. If the PS2 didn\'t have this shortage, I don\'t know that it could\'ve been stopped before the XBox and Gamecube finally slowed it down. But this shortage is really hurting. Consumers are pissed, as are retailers.
One thing that has really begun to disgust me about Sony fans is their offensive attitude. It\'s not enough to say that the Dreamcast will be outsold by the PS2 - I can accept that. Most likely it will happen (guaranteed to happen without shortage). After all, Sony had a 70 to 2 handicap (70 million PSX owners vs 2 million Saturn owners). A lobotimized monkey could win with those numbers - and NO marketing! But what bugs the hell out of me is that you... won\'t even give us the benefit of enjoying our machine for more than a year. WHY NOT? Why are you so damn nasty towards the Dreamcast? Why would a system with 5 million users, over 200 software titles, internet games and connectivity just up and "die"? What exactly do you think will happen to those 5 million people? Better yet, I want one of you to answer this. Please, answer this: When, in history, has a console with upwards of 5 million users and 200 software titles just "died"? How about this - when have all developers abandoned a system with 3 million users in it\'s first year in the US? Huh? Sorry? Come again? Why did Nintendo 64 survive DESPITE piss poor 3rd party support? Because of first party support. Sega has a greater diversity of 1st party games than Nintendo. Dreamcast is dirt cheap to develop for WHICH MEANS... a quick buck for developers WHICH MEANS... more niche titles and ports of popular PS2 titles (hey - let\'s milk the DC owners for money too). Don\'t believe me? Then look at ports of titles like RE, V8, Tony Hawk, etc on N64. And that thing cost a FORTUNE to develop for.
Seriously, knock that crap off. You\'ll win the war, but Dreamcast is NOT going to just die. Sega supported the Genesis for 5 years. Sega abandoned the 32X, Sega CD, Saturn because they sold poorly. Sound familiar? It\'s the same damn reason Nintendo abandoned the Virtual Boy, and Sony abandoned the betamax. Why in the hell would Sega abandon the Dreamcast? After all, they didn\'t abandon the Genesis. Take your silly ass little war, but don\'t tell me my machine will be abandoned by everybody next year. Developers are still making PC games - yet the PC gaming scene has a smaller userbase than the Dreamcast. EXPLAIN THAT. Thank you - again. You can\'t. It is just not going to die. At the very least, it will pull a N64. Developers are not going to ignore a userbase of 3 million (5 mill by march) - especially when development is dirt cheap, overhead is damn low, and profit per unit is higher than with other consoles.
As far as best long term investment - that is up to the INDIVIDUAL. My friend likes Madden, Tekken, etc. Dreamcast is bad for him. It\'s great for me. Whether you get 5 games you love in the first year (Dreamcast - thanks to their headstart) - or if you get them over 5 years, the console is worth it. You invest to get a return. The return on a game console is enjoyable games. So, it depends on what each individual enjoys playing. You can\'t say DC is a better investment because of this years library - PS2\'s library WILL grow with all the developers they have.
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Sega Genesis/SNES outsold the PSX/Saturn in their first year. IT HAPPENS EVERY GENERATIONAL GAP.
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. Developers are still making PC games - yet the PC gaming scene has a smaller userbase than the Dreamcast. EXPLAIN THAT
Just curious. Where do u get the statistic that the PC gamer base is smaller?? I always thought there\'s more PC gamers than console gamers. Do u mean by games software sales figure or what?
As for the PS2, i think it\'ll dominate(or at least gain a very respectable lead and share) the console scene starting from next year. if you remember, the PSX and Saturn was still neck to neck battle(with a little advantage at the PSX side) until the launch of FF7 when the PSX took a turbo boost and stomped the Saturn to the ground permanently.
next year, we\'ll see high profile titles like MGS2, GT3 and all those Square\'s RPG rolling in - in fact, you can consider this as the \'real\' launch!
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One thing that has really begun to disgust me about Sony fans is their offensive attitude. It\'s not enough to say that the Dreamcast will be outsold by the PS2 - I can accept that. Most likely it will happen (guaranteed to happen without shortage). After all, Sony had a 70 to 2 handicap (70 million PSX owners vs 2 million Saturn owners). A lobotimized monkey could win with those numbers - and NO marketing! But what bugs the hell out of me is that you... won\'t even give us the benefit of enjoying our machine for more than a year. WHY NOT? Why are you so damn nasty towards the Dreamcast? Why would a system with 5 million users, over 200 software titles, internet games and connectivity just up and "die"? What exactly do you think will happen to those 5 million people? Better yet, I want one of you to answer this. Please, answer this: When, in history, has a console with upwards of 5 million users and 200 software titles just "died"? How about this - when have all developers abandoned a system with 3 million users in it\'s first year in the US? Huh? Sorry? Come again? Why did Nintendo 64 survive DESPITE piss poor 3rd party support? Because of first party support. Sega has a greater diversity of 1st party games than Nintendo. Dreamcast is dirt cheap to develop for WHICH MEANS... a quick buck for developers WHICH MEANS... more niche titles and ports of popular PS2 titles (hey - let\'s milk the DC owners for money too). Don\'t believe me? Then look at ports of titles like RE, V8, Tony Hawk, etc on N64. And that thing cost a FORTUNE to develop for.
Seriously, knock that crap off. You\'ll win the war, but Dreamcast is NOT going to just die. Sega supported the Genesis for 5 years. Sega abandoned the 32X, Sega CD, Saturn because they sold poorly. Sound familiar? It\'s the same damn reason Nintendo abandoned the Virtual Boy, and Sony abandoned the betamax. Why in the hell would Sega abandon the Dreamcast? After all, they didn\'t abandon the Genesis. Take your silly ass little war, but don\'t tell me my machine will be abandoned by everybody next year. Developers are still making PC games - yet the PC gaming scene has a smaller userbase than the Dreamcast. EXPLAIN THAT. Thank you - again. You can\'t. It is just not going to die. At the very least, it will pull a N64. Developers are not going to ignore a userbase of 3 million (5 mill by march) - especially when development is dirt cheap, overhead is damn low, and profit per unit is higher than with other consoles.
My, your way of thinking is phenomenal. I agree with you - Dreamcast can\'t just simply up and die out. It has too much going for it... you made all the right points. :)
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M4,
Yup, even though i don\'t agree with him on certain things i really think Ktulu is one of the best damn posters out there. He posts great stuff all the time.
Ginko,
I already finished Skyes (best of the best!) and im currently having a blast with Samba de Amigo! (great great party game and further proof that the japanese are weird ppl!) :)
Joyda,
Skyes of Arcadia is an excellent RPG with a unique vibe and feel to it. The game features a great plot, terrific graphics and effects, nice sound and music, as well as likeable characters (Vyse is one the best lead characters in a RPG ever)and flawless control. The game\'s world and evironments are also amazing (ppl live on islands that float in the sky and they use some wicked sky-ships to travel from place to place)
Astro :cool:
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I read it in PC Gamer. There are significantly more Console gamers than PC gamers. The successful PC games get around 400,000 - 600,000 sales. Successful DC games - one million. I\'ll go home and dig through my stack of mags and find it.
Here\'s something else to think about: The Sega Saturn amassed a paltry one hundred thousand sales in it\'s first 6 months. One million sales in three years. YET: it was still receiving ports of popular PSX games like Wipeout, Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Dead or Alive, Toshinden, etc. One million sales, and a platform that was costly to develop for. Yet those developers still supplied games to it\'s customers; at least until Sega finally walked away from the machine. Does that say anything to you? Developers will NOT walk away from a quick buck - and there is no buck quicker in this generation than the Dreamcast. At least three million customers (thats just today), dirt cheap development environment.
All I\'m saying is that the Dreamcast will not die. Nobody ignores three million potential sales - and we all know that number will grow. At the very least, over it\'s lifespan it will gain 15 million customers. At LEAST (wait until you see the $99 price drop).
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One little correction Ktulu, Tomb Raider was origionaly developed for the Saturn and ported to the PSX, then Sony bought them out with a contract saying they cannot port the Tomb Raider franchise to any other consol for a number of yoears.
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LOL - Sony wasted their money then. Saturn didn\'t survive long enough for Tomb Raider 2, and we all know it would\'ve been near impossible on N64. But I could\'ve sworn Tomb Raider hit the PSX first - I remember it being a big deal as the first fully explorational game (before Mario)...