PSX5Central
Non Gaming Discussions => Off-Topic => Topic started by: clips on January 19, 2007, 05:34:02 PM
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i kinda thought this was a big deal when i first read this, but now i heard that the u.s. have actually been doin\' this since 85...still interesting tho...and if the u.s. is complaining, it\'s kind of makin\' them look like a hypocrite.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/01/18/china.missile/index.html
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Isn\'t China like.....not a threat? If they lost relations with the US, wouldn\'t they pretty much collapse? I do know one thing. Those bastards took our oil :mad:
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man, it would be a dream when China one day become a free country where its no longer a communist. When they become more open minded and change for the better, it would be really cool if they can downfall communism. Russia did it back in 1991....makes me curious when China can change too...if ever...
btw, is the word choice downfall inaccurate when i say downfall communism on the above paragraph?
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maybe \'the downfall "of" communism in china\'..sounds better to me
Will it change? i highly doubt it
And isnt china our only threat as a second possible world power? So i think you\'re kind of wrong on them collapsing..we\'d be in some trouble too
I dont think this has any immediate impacts, but its definitly not a step towards the right direction in foreign affairs.
To be fair, we are sticking our noses into their business so i can see them getting a little pissed off about our satellites. It\'s almost the same arguement as wiretapping to me..if you have nothing to hide, than why care; but its still a tricky situation (for lack of a better term)
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China\'s GDP is set to pass the USA\'s around 2040 (didn\'t we have this convo before?). They will have much more money & resources than any other country by the end of this century. Intelligence & technology is a different story.
I say we a-bomb them now and blame it on the japs.
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man, it would be a dream when China one day become a free country where its no longer a communist. When they become more open minded and change for the better, it would be really cool if they can downfall communism. Russia did it back in 1991....makes me curious when China can change too...if ever...
btw, is the word choice downfall inaccurate when i say downfall communism on the above paragraph?
Due to the huge population in China I dont think a different system would be appropriate for China. A system of capitalism will extend opportunities and welfare for certain groups and completely isolate and threw away whoever is not needed. And we are talking about billions.
Regarding Russia although it seems like a free country now, life is harder for many many people. There is LOTS of poverty. The population is mostly consisted of a some rich and the many poor. Middle class isnt as common as many should expect.
A friend of mine who stays in Moscow for his studies in fine arts also confirmed this. They are also very narrow minded, suffer from huge welfare inequality, there is lots of poverty, education is low, there are lots of neo-nazis in the streets, too much crime etc. The rich Russians though are in a completely different world, having enough to spend millions of dollars for just a small piece of jewelery
If you go to the market, you might notice that the majority of people having enough only to purhcase half a tomato, one piece of cheese, some tiny amounts of other vegetables, and if they are lucky some small quantity of meat at the most, while some of the rich Russians and foregners walk into shops pucrhasing expensive coats
It sounds very strange for many of us but there are many many people who prefer the days of communism because atleast their first needs were quaranteed to get satisfied.
Communism in Russia commited suicide by itself. Stalin took out all of the original, more rational revolitionists and politicians, and adopted a govermental bureaucratic capitalism, a dictatorship under the guise of a socialistic system in which he also cut trade totally with a great amount of countries. They tried to counter these issues of that policy with the creation of the Soviet Union in which trade would help economy work.
But it was too limited and Stalin was a madman who completely sucked up the other members of the soviet union and he forced labor to work just like in the first forms of capitalism. Treated only as tools, under limited rights and in a confined Union that of the Sovieti n an effort to maintain the Soviet Union powerful. During the Cold War ESSR and the US didnt differ from two huge companies in a system of capitalism trying to take over each other.
It was far from what Marx envisioned. China is similar but its less conservative than the Soviet Union, and does trade globally, thats why China will continue for years to come.
Closing this I have to add that circumstances vary in countries so expecting a policy that works great or atleast satisfactory for some doesnt mean it will work perfectly or better than the previous in another.
This is something many people should put well up in their heads before they decide which is best for each country based on "personal" experiences.
For example I wouldnt want to see an effort to adopt comminism in my country because it wouldnt work. Not because communism is illogical, but because trying to adopt it under these circumstances is illogical. Such an effort will create once again another pseudo communist regime which might also turn out as a dictatorship. But if you ask me about China, changing it into a western capitalism, again it wont work as well. China is in reality another form of capitalism, different from the western one despite the entitlement of "communist country"
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man, it would be a dream when China one day become a free country where its no longer a communist. When they become more open minded and change for the better, it would be really cool if they can downfall communism. Russia did it back in 1991....makes me curious when China can change too...if ever...
btw, is the word choice downfall inaccurate when i say downfall communism on the above paragraph?
That would be cool. China has a very odd form of communism. They are a communist state but they are their own form of communism that seems to be working. Not too long ago, they realized they would too see the same fate as the Soviets so they switched to a more capitalistic economy, where they can buy and sell goods within the country. Not only that, but they traded with non-communist states. A trait the Soviets didn\'t have. They only dealt with communist states. Basically, China is a hybrid and its working for them. They should give the people more civil liberties though, but that\'s the libertarian side of me. What works in the US may not necessarily work there. But time changes society and governments. I\'m sure their government will change throughout our lifetime into something different than what it is today. I\'m really curious to see how China evolves. They definitely have a lot of potential.
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What works in the US may not necessarily work there. But time changes society and governments. I\'m sure their government will change throughout our lifetime into something different than what it is today. I\'m really curious to see how China evolves. They definitely have a lot of potential.
lol..the first part sounds like a good example of Iraq....
I dont think Chinas gov. will change much in our lifetime short of a war with someone. China has HUGE potential in many ways..especially as a large super power which is why the US is particularly concerned with what happens over there.
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lol..the first part sounds like a good example of Iraq....
Pretty much.
[/quote]I dont think Chinas gov. will change much in our lifetime short of a war with someone. China has HUGE potential in many ways..especially as a large super power which is why the US is particularly concerned with what happens over there.[/QUOTE]
Which is why we should be working together to live in harmony so we don\'t have another cold war, which I\'m afraid of. I mean, if it wasn\'t for the US, China wouldn\'t be what it is today. Hopefully they don\'t forget that. There is so much potential for both countries benefits by working together. We need to make sure we don\'t end up getting into a second cold war.
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Which is why we should be working together to live in harmony so we don\'t have another cold war, which I\'m afraid of.
and we can run in fields of dandelions and daffodils
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and we can run in fields of dandelions and daffodils
Joke\'s on you. I love daffodils.
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Which is why we should be working together to live in harmony so we don\'t have another cold war, which I\'m afraid of. I mean, if it wasn\'t for the US, China wouldn\'t be what it is today. Hopefully they don\'t forget that. There is so much potential for both countries benefits by working together. We need to make sure we don\'t end up getting into a second cold war.
Well unfortunately history has proven that whatever colaboration between two superpowers we may have they never have the purest motives. They always hide their own individual interests behind them. Its motly like an effort to minimize a thread than help each other
Even if superpowers work together they are always suspicious of each other and always take up measures in case the opposition becomes more powerful. The opposition is always treated as a thread. Politics and dimplomacy never reveal the "true feelings". Honest colaboration is an alien.
These superpowers will try to maximize their own benefits as high as possible and minimize the benefits of the other as much as possible. No one is risking their position as a superpower neither the possibility of the other one becoming significantly more powerful.
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Treated as a thread? Are you high? But I do see what you are saying. There were times in history though that the US and Soviet Union worked together, or tried to. The US offered help in Chernobyl as well as during one of the Soviet space disasters. Actaully, after the death of some Soviet cosmonauts (its too late to be doing extensive research on this. I\'ll get back to this tomorrow), NASA and the Soviets worked together to figure out what went wrong. I believe it was Suyuz 11. There was a docking mission between one of the Apollos and a Soviet space craft back in the 70s I believe. It was weird. We were sworn enemies but worked together fine in some instances.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_11
It was Soyuz 11. But it didn\'t say anything about a joint investigation. I did see it on the History Channel though. It\'s worth some quick Googling seeing that the wiki article sucks.
EDIT2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz_Test_Project
Wasn\'t a true Apollo mission but still....read it :p
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That was a bad choice of words by me. When I say treated as a thread I mean observed as a potential one.
Nice links btw
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That was a bad choice of words by me. When I say treated as a thread I mean observed as a potential one.
Nice links btw
What are you talking about? What do you mean by thread? A thread is a topic on a forum or a thin piece of string that holds fabric together. I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
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I ment threat but I am sure you were smart enough to understand and you only tried to mess with me again
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I ment threat but I am sure you were smart enough to understand and you only tried to mess with me again
No, I didn\'t try to mess with you. I figured you might have meant threat but how was I supposed to know? You misspelled the word every time you used it and in a way that is not used. I had no idea what you were trying to talk about.
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oh no... they\'re 20 years behind us... pfff
to vaguely quote bush from his state of the union... "we are on the verge of technological breakthroughs that will free our dependence on oil."
beat that
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Didn\'t he say that like the last 3 years? :confused:
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oh no... they\'re 20 years behind us... pfff
to vaguely quote bush from his state of the union... "we are on the verge of technological breakthroughs that will free our dependence on oil."
beat that
I d say BULLSHIT!
Oil companies wont let that shift happen and neither would a politician dissapoint such powerful groups.
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I d say BULLSHIT!
Oil companies wont let that shift happen and neither would a politician dissapoint such powerful groups.
Shell is one of the leading innovators of alternate fuels. The only big oil company that\'s really resisting is Exxon-Mobil. But they are sons of bitches. That\'s why I boycott them.
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I\'m boycotting gasoline, as well.
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I meant Exxon Mobil.
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Shell is one of the leading innovators of alternate fuels. The only big oil company that\'s really resisting is Exxon-Mobil. But they are sons of bitches. That\'s why I boycott them.
Are there other oil companies there, are there collaborations with foregn oil companies, and how much is Shell willing to replace oil based fuels other than creating expectations btw?
I d like to learn more :)
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Are there other oil companies there, are there collaborations with foregn oil companies, and how much is Shell willing to replace oil based fuels other than creating expectations btw?
I d like to learn more :)
If you want to learn more, go to their website.
There will always be some dependence on oil. A lot of plastics and stuff are derived from oil.
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Gross oil consumption is not going anywhere until it is all gone....
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Gross oil consumption is not going anywhere until it is all gone....
That\'s what I\'m afraid of. These companies have to realize that oil is not gonna be here forever. The future of their market is in alternate fuels. With as much money as they have, they can fund, manufacture and sell something like ethanol or mass manufacture E-85 (85% Ethanol, 15% gasoline) and have the best of both worlds. They\'ll be producing ethanol and still selling gasoline. Its win win for them if they shell out the money now. It would be beneficial to them in the long run. Atleast some companies like Shell are doing that. Shell has a big biodiesel program.
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Gross oil consumption is not going anywhere until it is all gone....
We\'ll also have wars for that before they change
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Yeah but those oil reserves are beginning to peak. Its said that Saudi Arabia\'s oil reserves have already peaked and will only go down. Same is supposed to be true or going to be true soon with most of the middle east.
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So what does that say about the US fields which cannot be compared in anyway to the "others"
Wait..we dont drill where we can for conservative reasons. I bet that will change once the news gets out that the rest of the world is dry.
While I dont give a shit about that really. It\'s just how the US goes about it. Its ok to use and exploit everyone else resources and claim ours as national parks.
I really do not care as it will not happrn in our lifetime or our childrens lifetime... even still. We have the means to do alot and do not pursue it.
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So what does that say about the US fields which cannot be compared in anyway to the "others"
Wait..we dont drill where we can for conservative reasons. I bet that will change once the news gets out that the rest of the world is dry.
While I dont give a shit about that really. It\'s just how the US goes about it. Its ok to use and exploit everyone else resources and claim ours as national parks.
I really do not care as it will not happrn in our lifetime or our childrens lifetime... even still. We have the means to do alot and do not pursue it.
What\'s even funnier is they are using such a small percentage for drilling that it won\'t even affect the park. Its those damn tree huggers.