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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Viper_Fujax on February 04, 2007, 03:02:56 PM
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Im getting closer to getting an HDTV and have decided on a 37", probably samsung since iv always liked their products.
However, I\'ve been hearing conflicting thoughts about 1080p and 720p. My first thought was to just fork out the extra money for 1080p and be set for the future. BUT, as of right now 1080p isnt worth it, and iv also heard that only above like 50" do you actually see a difference between 720p and 1080p..even 1080i (iv heard 720p is better than 1080i)
Obviously, i dont know that much. Another thing is that i cant seem to find a 1080p set without it being ginormous.
My brother has a 32" and it honestly looked a little small in my room (my house used to have a mini-room next to my room a while ago and they just made it one big room) http://www.bestbuy.ca/learnmore/BuyersGuide/en/viewing_distance.asp?catid=20003&logon=&langid=EN says i should be 80" from a 37" so i would be fine (barely) with that size.
annyway..with all that in mind, do you think its still worth forking out for a 1080p? and are there 1080p sets that arent 50"?
edit: does anyone have any info on Westinghouse? http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/deals/dealzmodo-westinghouse-37inch-1080p-lcd-1099-231488.php
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i got a 56" 1080P Samsung DLP for xmas for 1800$
the picture is incredible.
don\'t buy a 720P TV unless you feel like replacing it in a few years.
spend the money and enjoy it now.
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The human eye can\'t even see 1080P resolution from a certain distance.......but the sets still tend to be nice.
And I definitely disagree with mm on replacing a 720P tv in a few years, kind of stupid to say. Especially with the only 1080P source out there right now being bluray movies.
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Why is this thread in console discussion?
Especially with the only 1080P source out there right now being bluray movies.
But in a few years..?
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Why is this thread in console discussion?
But in a few years..?
I dunno, I just don\'t see that much tv being in 1080P any time soon. Hell most tv isn\'t even in 720P yet let alone 1080p.
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just blu-ray movies, eh?
mind telling that to my xbox 360 and PC?
take it easy with the misinformation, please
my cable box upconverts non HD channels to 1080i
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If I remember right you can\'t even get 1080p out of your 360 unless your tv accepts 1080p through vga. Not all but some sets do. I\'m not saying 1080p is useless I\'m just laughing at you acting like 720p sets are gonna be dead soon.
I\'d say it just depends on what style set he\'s looking at. If he\'s going projection the price difference isn\'t too bad and I\'d definitely go with a 1080p set, probably the one you have mm. But with thin panels I just don\'t feel like it\'s worth it to spend that much more for a 1080p lcd especially when 720p plasmas handle fast motion so much better, at least in my eyes.
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not dead soon, but if anyone who buys one tomorrow will be kicking themselves 2-3 years from now.
if you already have one, enjoy it.
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not dead soon, but if anyone who buys one tomorrow will be kicking themselves 2-3 years from now.
if you already have one, enjoy it.
mm, does your tv accept 1080p through vga?
And viper, about that westinghouse. My cousin has a 42" 1080p westinghouse and when I first heard he bought it I was scared to see it. TV\'s are pretty much you get what you pay for and the cheaper the worse. It\'s not too bad for the price point, it just depends what you want out of your tv.
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yes, through component and HDMI also.
the 360 will not do 1080P via component, but that\'s not the TV\'s limitation.
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1080p is the only way to go now. You aren\'t talking about that much more money and it\'s certainly worth it for the future. To say that only Blue Ray utilizes it now is enough for me.
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Yea, except in thin panels...
I personally can\'t stand the motion blur in lcds, even in the most high end 1080p models like the sony xbr2. And sadly the 1080p plasmas are still a little expensive.
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SONY\'s SXRD Rear projection(LCOS) are the best looking tv\'s today period. Sure they arn\'t flat like a plasma but picture quality first and foremost. After that I would go with a Panasonic Plasma.
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agh!...*raises hand slowly* what is this 1080i and 1080p business? i\'m thinkin\' bout gettin\' a flat screen, but i have no idea what exactly these terms mean.....can anybody explain in a nutshell?
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wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p)
enough info for a headache (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html)
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^^^heh, you wasn\'t kidding about that info*very detailed*. And i have a better understanding of 1080p & 1080i.....thanks :)
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After reading this thread: this is what I know is true about direct view flat panel displays. LCDs suck the most compare to other type of display in term of picture quality because it has crappy viewing angle problems, worst pixel response time which bozco mentioned about the motion blur problem, and worst black level too. LCD\'s contrast ratio in general also are weak compares to other type of display.
Plasma on the other hand are much more favorable because it doesn\'t suffer any viewing angle problem, and the pixel response time is much faster than LCD, so no motion blur. And the black level on plasma are like 2nd place as it\'s very deep only to be beaten by CRT. Contrast ratio on the other hand, most plasmas beat LCD in that area too. Especially 2006 and later models where its improve deeper blacks on newer model had increased the contrast ratio to quite a pleasing level.
So, if you want to get a flat panel 37" TV or bigger, go for plasma if picture quality is important to you. for tv smaller than 37", go for CRT as there is rarely any plasma type tv that are smaller than 37". Some are as small as 32", but that is for plasmas as I haven\'t seen any plasmas tv smaller than 32". Avoid LCD type display. Heh, even front or rear projection type displays have a lot better black level and contrast ratio than direct view LCD and even better viewing angles too. Like the Sony SXRD LCOS projection tv which look a lot better than LCD and LCOS doesn\'t suffer from the motion blur that I see some LCDs have.
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Heh, even front or rear projection type displays have a lot better black level and contrast ratio than direct view LCD and even better viewing angles too.
Show mw a tv that has better blacks and detail then a SONY LCOS, not even plasma can touch it. :)
It goes like this
LCOS/RPTV
Plasma
LCD
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it may sound like I\'m overreacting, but i really dont like the burn-in\'s plasmas get. I mean..i watch cnn sometimes..madden has that ticker at the bottom the whole game, bunch of stuff like that that makes me a little worried.
I was kind of leaning towards DLP, but replacing that mirror thing is pretty gay..and like 250 bucks.
The only reason I\'m considering not doing 1080p is because for me, the difference is a lot to me. The general difference im seeing is about $600
plus the whole idea that below 50" you cant tell the difference between the two. And seeing as I can only stand like 80" from the tv, 37" is the max i can get. I dont think ill be moving into a ginormous apartment any time soon.
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Viper if your looking at DLp which is a RPTV then take a look at the SONY\'s SXRD with a good HDTV source it will blow you away.
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just checking..by good HDTV source do you mean the place you get your channels from? Because I actually have cox\'s hdtv stations on my box. My brother had an HDTV and the service, moved out, and my parents decided to keep it because we get some extra channels in the package.
Are you sure there\'s a 37" in Sony\'s SXRD? i did a quick search and could only find 50"
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Show mw a tv that has better blacks and detail then a SONY LCOS, not even plasma can touch it. :)
It goes like this
LCOS/RPTV
Plasma
LCD
The topic starter wanted a direct view thin design flat panel, so I am making comparison between Plasma and LCD. I also mentioned that projection tv like lcos and dlp have a lot better black level, contrast ratio, and viewing angle than lcd.
Its true that as of right now, DLP and LCOS (SXRD) have better black level than plasma. But not a whole lot, plasma is getting nearly and really close the gap. But I believe DLP and LCOS (SXRD) uses some sort of iris tricks to get that high contrast ratio, in the range of about 10,000:1 or higher compare to plasma of 2,500:1. Plasma is more natural that it doesn\'t uses any iris to get deeper black or brighter whiter. When DLP or LCOS (SXRD) doesn\'t use the IRIS tricks, the contrast ratio is around 3,000:1 to 4,000:1. And the black level is similiar of plasma. But what really helps DLP and LCOS still getting a bit better contrast ratio is the higher light output even when the IRIS is turned off.
The only LCOS display that I know that have the best black level is Sony SXRD as its a bit deeper than plasma and higher light output than plasma. But as 2007 plasmas model will roll out later this year from panasonic and pioneer, i am pretty sure we will see plasmas with black level just as good as sony sxrd, and maybe a bit higher light output.
Besides, plasmas can last up to 60,000 hours before reaching half-life while LCOS (SXRD) or DLP bulbs burn out at around 3,000 hours and replacing the bulb may cost about $250 each time...
So, i think this year going to be a tough decisions to make for anybody thinking of getting hdtv especially big screen tv because there are some stuffs to consider when compare different type of tv displays.
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Isn\'t 1080p the manufacturing standard now? So 720p should be bargain sellers, especially now that the Superbowl is over. Stores want to get rid of all the 720p\'s on their floor.
Personally, I\'d just hop in to the 1080p standard.
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One thing to note is that 1080i and 1080p aren\'t terribly different in terms of raw image quality.
At least, that\'s what I\'ve read (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=698612).
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Either go \'small\' and 720P or big and 1080P.
If you\'re into LCD, look for new models with LED backlighting.
But either way just get a set that looks good to you. Don\'t fuss too much about the details.
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One thing to note is that 1080i and 1080p aren\'t terribly different in terms of raw image quality.
At least, that\'s what I\'ve read (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=698612).
All digital diplays (LCD, DLP, LCOS, Plasma) display progressive, so if they have 1080 lines of vertical res they are 1080p by default.
If you feed a modern 1080p display a 1080i image from a movie or Broadcast TV show there will be NO difference between that and if you fed it a 1080p image. Why? Because Broadcast TV is usually shot @ 24-30fps. Movies are 24fps. TVs have a refresh rate of 60fps.
At frame 1, a 1080i signal is sending HALF the information.
At frame 2 it then sends the other half.
A modern deinterlacer will take those 2 fields, put them together and form a perfect 1080p frame. It takes 2 frames to for this process to complete, which works fine because a 60Hz television has extra time to process a source that is only 30fps. In the end using 1080i saves bandwidth for movies and TV.
Note this only works for movie/TV but NOT for videogames, which sports FPS counts up to 60. In this case 1080p would be ideal.
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so a xbox 360 cant go in 1080p mode, witht e hd leads that come witht he xbox???
i got a vga lead,but it seemed to say 1280 x 720, or whatever, not 1080p when i was choosing it, so i wet back to the lead, and chose 1080 p..
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i dunno..im confused as hell with this damn stuff. even more after best buy
The westinghouse tv was blurry as balls compared to the other ones. I liked samsung and sony the best but sony overcharges. There was a really good looking 40" samsung but it was 720p and $1700, which is a little expensivo. Seems like online prices are wayyy better (probably since they dont have stocking fees) but i dunno how much i trust doing something like a tv and shipping. The one time i did shipping with something relatively expensive was a guitar and it came with a chip.\\
I have no damn idea where im going. This is pretty much where i got last time i wanted to get one and was just like "...fuck it"
I\'ve kind of decided on 720p just because the tv isnt big enough to see a big enough difference in 1080p. The only thing holding me back is i\'d assume you can see a difference in hd-dvd or blu-ray, but even then im not as pick as a lot of people.
leaning towards http://reviews.cnet.com/Samsung_LN_S4041D_LCD_TV_40/4507-6482_7-31891586.html?tag=nav for $1400 at frys.
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If your 32" NTSC is still working fine, how about enjoy that TV and wait a bit longer? And btw, how much money are you willing to spend?
If not, then maybe getting plasma is better imo than LCD. of course, you worry about the screen burns in, but in my opinions, technology improves so much that it\'s really hard to get screen burn in on plasmas nowadays.
the reasons why I suggest you wait some more is because plasmas are getting better with black level and higher contrast ratio as time go by. Say, if you spend about $1,500 for a 37" 720p plasma today with 2,500:1 contrast ratio. the next latest model will have even more deeper black and higher contrast ratio. who knows, maybe as high as 4,000:1 or higher but still costing the same of $1,500 for 37" 720p.
So, if you are in no rush, wait till summer or fall of this year and see what tv manufacturers will bring out for this year\'s model.
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I
the reasons why I suggest you wait some more is because plasmas are getting better with black level and higher contrast ratio as time go by. Say, if you spend about $1,500 for a 37" 720p plasma today with 2,500:1 contrast ratio. the next latest model will have even more deeper black and higher contrast ratio. who knows, maybe as high as 4,000:1 or higher but still costing the same of $1,500 for 37" 720p.
You could play the \'waiting for the price to drop/better tv for the same price game till you\'re blue in the face with technology.
Not sure where u got the 32" thing from. Right now for tv i just have a crappy 20" er something crt thing..for pc and 360 i use my 19" LCD
money wise i dont really want to go above $1700
and call me crazy/dumb but when i went to best buy i thought LCD looked the best. Plasma, to me, had this glass thing on the front of it that made it look glossy
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...My brother has a 32" and it honestly looked a little small in my room (my house used to have a mini-room next to my room a while ago and they just made it one big room).....
that\'s where I got it from. Your very first post.
the glass on plasmas, it shouldn\'t be a problem if you place the tv where it shouldn\'t reflect light too much like light coming from the windows and stuff...just control room lighting and you should get a really good picture. Even LCD screen reflects light, and you still have to control room lighting to get a better picture. So, I don\'t think it should be a problem with plasmas.
Check this one out:
Link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7669436&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050005&id=1140393183225)
But of course, its your choice. Go with LCD if you think it looks better. But LCDs that look decent such as from samsung and sony are a bit pricey compare to Plasmas of similiar size. So, its decisions...decisions...decisions...
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Hard to explain with the glossiness that bugs me on the plasmas. Its more than just light reflecting off of it, even then i think its worse than LCD\'s. They were both in the same section and lighting in the store and even then i noticed it on the plasma
The 32" hdtv was my brothers but he moved to tuscon with the air force. Probably shouldve mentioned that. So i dont have an HDTV anymore.
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okay, tell us when you buy a new hdtv and give us a review of what you think of it would be nice.
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I decided on http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNS4051D-Wide-Integrated-Tuner/dp/B000ELOQS2.
Looks great and dont have any buyers remorse at all.
Im still trying to figure out how to get 720p instead of 1080i though.
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what do you mean how to get 720p instead of 1080i? That tv you listed is a 768p tv, which if receive a 720p signal, it will upconvert to 768p, if detected a 1080i signal i guess it will do both deinterlacing and downconvert to 768p too. If the tv have a good scaler, upconverting or downconverting to 768p should still look good with no artifacts or too much softness.
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i thought it was just 720p native..didnt even know there was a 768p
i havent looked too in depth besides skimming around, but my digital box always says 1080i, and already 720p with games looked better..so id like to get my channels that way too
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using your digital box remote control, check around the "setup" menu and see if there is an option for resolution output. Like output 1080i to 720p, and leave 720p as is...
if there isn\'t, that should be no problem since i think that 768p hdtv should accept 1080i and deinterlace it and downscale it to 768p.
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why LCD?
it won\'t even do 1080i
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because im weird.
I looked at all the tv\'s with the same DVD on (something with christian bale) and it looked the best to me.
I figure fuck what other people think as long as it looks good to me.
plus its relative to the set what res looks good. it has 1080i but 720p looks great on it. Going to have to wait till the one above 1080p for me to notice the difference enough to spend the extra money on it
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good enough
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Again, pretty much most 720p and 768p support 1080i signal, meaning it supports that signal but it will downscale and deinterlace back to 768p or 720p or whichever resolution is the tv\'s native. so it should be no problem if the source is really 1080i.
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Need some people\'s opinions.
Are monster cables worth it? I bought some the day i got the tv, but the dude gave me some monster cables with an optic audio cable, even though i dont have a receiver (and i dont want to buy one right now) and im going to return it. So should i get monster cables without the optic audio cable (can always buy that separate if i get surround sound)?
Also, I have a VGA plug (from when i played my 360 through the pc monitor) but i have to screw around with the settings in my xbox.
So is it worth going through the settings and using my VGA\'s, using the component cables that came with the premium 360, or buy monster cables?
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why did i enter this thread
what a giant disapointment
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you\'re so funny omg
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Viper monster is the bose of cables. In other words most the money you spend on Monster products goes towards the name opposed to the quality. For the same amount of money monster charges, you could buy better quality cables by another company.
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monster cables are phenomenal, and offer great shielding.
but..all that shielding is moot when it\'s a digital signal and only going 3 meters.
save your money and go to monoprice.com
you\'ll never notice a difference
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monster cables are phenomenal
You mean there a rip off.
Yes I second Monoprice, it where I buy My digital cables.
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like the above mm and NVIDIA had said, Monster cables charge Monster Prices for their cables. Their quality might be good, but most of their cable products are overprice. You can get similiar performance on much cheaper cables.
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that site is awesome. Thanks
So you still recommend getting a new cable over VGA?
The plusses im hearing about VGA is it can play dvd\'s at 720p without upconverting, but i also hear that colors can look washed on VGA. I can always try it first but i have to connect it backt o my pc monitor, change the settings and THEN put it back on the hdtv, since right now it never shows up on the hdtv with the settings at 720p and not 1300xwhatever
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let me get this straight.
you have component video cable that comes with the 360 premium, and you also have VGA cable for the 360.
I am not really sure what you mean when you say you want to buy a new cable...since you already own both best possible connection cables.
i don\'t know if you can upconvert dvd to 720p via VGA, but why would you want to do that btw? Since dvd is 480i/p, upconverting it won\'t make it 720p. your hdtv can upconvert too if you know what i mean.
And I am lost at your last sentence...
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Got a brand new Sony KDL-40XBR2 for $1550 (Retails for $3000)
anywho, picture is great, it has 1080p but I haven\'t used it yet... still waiting for a reason to buy a PS3...
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let me get this straight.
you have component video cable that comes with the 360 premium, and you also have VGA cable for the 360.
I am not really sure what you mean when you say you want to buy a new cable...since you already own both best possible connection cables.
i don\'t know if you can upconvert dvd to 720p via VGA, but why would you want to do that btw? Since dvd is 480i/p, upconverting it won\'t make it 720p. your hdtv can upconvert too if you know what i mean.
And I am lost at your last sentence...
i was just talking and not really thinking.
Mainly, I have the cable that comes with the premium 360 and a VGA cable because i had to use it to play the 360 on my pc monitor. But i hear that monster type cables (one on monoprice) are a lot better than the ones that come with the 360; then i hear about 50/50 on who like VGA or monster more.
Im just going to give VGA a whirl whenever i get the time. Been busy with school and work the last few days
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okay. Wow, if you can see a difference between monster cable and the cable that you already own, then god bless you. Because I doubt I can.
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Or even if you could see a tiny difference, I doubt it would be worth the price.