PSX5Central
Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: clowd on July 31, 2007, 09:12:14 AM
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The DVD vs Blu-Ray debate is being fired up again this morning, as PGR4 dev Bizarre Creations blames DVD size for the reason you won\'t see different times of day in PGR4.
Speaking on it\'s offical forums, a Bizarre spokesman said you won\'t see different times of day for the city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn\'t a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data on one DVD.
A bit more here:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=169199
So first there was Rockstar talking about how DVD9 caused problems for GTAIV, now this. Who\'s next? Seriously, I\'m seeing demos appear on the PS store over 1GB now. How do developers plan to fit full 2nd, 3rd generation next-gen games on anything other than a 25GB Blu-ray dsic without some serious cutbacks/compressing? edit: multiple DVDs!
PGR4 looks like a great game, though. It reminds me of what NFS use to be. Too bad GT5 is so far away
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actually GTAIV\'s problem was that the core 360 doesnt have a harddrive
fucking fanboy
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I think GTA\'s problem was going on the 360 to begin with ;) [/fanboy]
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i wish gta would just stay on one console dammit. less development time spent on compatibility and more for tweaking.
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http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/08/01/rumors-of-pgr-4-being-limited-by-dvd-are-false/
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lol
It\'s called damage control
M$ thinks 10+ year old technology will work this gen
I checked the offical Bizarre forums and the guy who wrote the post that started it all is really a part of the Bizarre creations staff.
A staff member said it, not a random fanboy. His name is Ben
I read the offical Bizarre reponse to this and it is obvious they are using sly wording to cover up what their staff member, Ben, said. Their response was that the hardware and software did not stop them from making \'an enjoyable experience\'. From what Ben said it is obvious they didn\'t try to include Day/Night textures because of the restriction of DVD so they went with altering already made textures to create Mourning/Dusk because of the lack of space. So Bizarre\'s reponse is "We can do what we want to do with DVD" That obviously doesnt include a want for night textures
For crying out loud a staff member said they couldnt do it on DVD.
\'Nuff said
there will be a new xbox in 2-3 years with a blu-ray drive
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I also think in the long run that using regular DVDs are gonna hurt. My bet is most games push the size limit to the...eh, limit.
Have there been any multiple DVD games yet?
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I dont think so. I think itd be a while for DVD space to be a problem. I mean..if they can fit mass effect on one DVD, theyre going to be fine for a long time. It takes a lot of time/money to fill up a DVD, so at best it will be like one HUGE game thats starting production now and comes out in 2011
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there will be a new xbox in 2-3 years with a blu-ray drive
Won\'t happen. Not within three years.
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I also think in the long run that using regular DVDs are gonna hurt. My bet is most games push the size limit to the...eh, limit.
Have there been any multiple DVD games yet?
Blue Dragon (AAA RPG for 360) is 3 DVDs
Halo 3 will be 2 DVDs and the special edition will be 3 DVDs
Like ViperFujax said, expect the issue of size grow as developers get more out of the consoles. Remember how every PS2 game was a CD at first then eventually everything was on DVD.
Resistance Fall of Man (PS3) is 14 GBs, and I\'ve heard elsewhere that Heavenly Sword and Lair (PS3) are in the teens (GB). Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB blu-disc for MGS4.
Insomniac says Ratchet and Clank will take up more than RFOM\'s 14GBs
Raz, good point. I forgot about how MS is in bed with Toshiba\'s HD-DVD. There won\'t be a BD xbox until HD-DVD is on it\'s deathbed, then again it wouldn\'t surprise me to see MS backstab Toshiba in 2 years and make a BD Xbox. Not building in the HD-DVD drive into the elite says alot
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HD DVD is on it\'s deathbed
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Raz, good point. I forgot about how MS is in bed with Toshiba\'s HD-DVD. There won\'t be a BD xbox until HD-DVD is on it\'s deathbed, then again it wouldn\'t surprise me to see MS backstab Toshiba in 2 years and make a BD Xbox. Not building in the HD-DVD drive into the elite says alot
W0W!!!! are you done with your Sony Zealot rant. So M$ is in bed with Toshiba while SONY is in bed with itself in regards to blu-ray. Where do you even come up with idea that M$ will incorporate a blu-ray disc reader. You act as if HD-DVD is a dead format which it clearly is not.
You know what is sad, your a product of years of marketing and have allowed yourself to be a conditioned mindless servicing robot, who lacks logic and reasoning. There is no point is making these posts cause most people here aren\'t going to take them serious, in essence your TRANSPARENT.
I mean for god sakes if your going to be Sony little Hench man at least get paid for what your doing.
All your do here is SPREAD :piss: [SIZE="5"][FONT="Impact"][COLOR="Red"] FUD [/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
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(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.youtube.com%2Fvi%2Fa1Y73sPHKxw%2F2.jpg&hash=4b93fdca23ffada0213557bafcd3f1603bb9518e)
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Microsoft\'s motives behind backing HD-DVD are evil.
Microsoft will incorporate Blu-ray drivers in their next console when HD-DVD fails. Do you expect them to keep DVD for the third Xbox?
In case you haven\'t noticed I own both Sony and Nintendo consoles. I have been very critical of Sony on many occasions in this very forum. I am not a conditioned mindless robot server of Sony, but you on the other hand are different.
You have been known to be a Microsoft Xbox chearleader. I can\'t remember one positive thing about Sony ever coming from your mouth.
Sorry if the facts and truth I post rattle your confidence. Call it FUD, but you know better
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1) iv rarely seen you be critical of sony. mainly because recently its been nothing but sucking sony\'s dick and playing with their balls in a glee of joy.
2) their motives are evil? its a fucking business
3) we arent being negative of sony. we\'re being negative about ur one-sided bullshit
4) that source..iv never heard of
take shit you hear with a grain of salt for once
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Microsoft\'s motives behind backing HD-DVD are evil.
Evil? It\'s business, you act as if HD DVD will bring the end of the world. They are no more evil than Sony was for forcing users to own a BLU RAY machine if they want a PS3. Evil? No. Business? Yes
In case you haven\'t noticed I own both Sony and Nintendo consoles. I have been very critical of Sony on many occasions in this very forum. I am not a conditioned mindless robot server of Sony, but you on the other hand are different.
When have you been critical of Sony?
I hold no allegiance to any company. I will say that MS messed up by not including the HD DVD drive from the start. I will say that Sony messed up with a high launch price and no decent games. I will say that Nintendo messed up by under-powering the Wii in the long term. All you keep doing is spreading the word and gossip of Sony.
HD DVD is on it\'s deathbed
It\'s not doing great, but a deathbed is bit premature. Still, I would say that neither format is exactly standing out to the mainstream people. I know plenty of people who have a PS3 and don\'t buy BLU RAY films. Until price comes down and a compelling reason to buy into the HD market, neither format will truly take off.
Blue Dragon (AAA RPG for 360) is 3 DVDs
Halo 3 will be 2 DVDs and the special edition will be 3 DVDs
RPG\'s almost always take up multi-discs. Not surprised. Does it really hurt anyone to switch discs?
Halo 3 being three discs, the third disc will be extra features and what not. Can\'t really count that.
Not building in the HD-DVD drive into the elite says alot
It says nothing..Nothing at all. Why? Quite simple...
1: The Elite simply replaced the premium. If you add in the HD DVD drive, you raise the price even more. That would make no sense.
2: You can\'t just throw in an HD DVD drive now. No developer would use it, for the simple fact it splits the market up. So, if no developer is going to use it, why force it on the people? If the HD DVD drive isn\'t in the system to begin with, you can\'t put it in half way through the consoles lifespan, at least not for games. And I already mentioned why you can\'t really put it in for movies (target price).
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If by "ok" you mean resize and resample all your audio and texture to save some little space and have the software/hardware do the uncompress all that stuff.. developers spend time and effort to squeeze all this data and they probably even have to cut stuff from the final product to make sure it can all fit in the 10 years old media.
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Who said it was "ok"? I must of missed that part. I don\'t think anyone here is defending the choice to use the DVD medium, but instead pointing out some faults all around. Not to mention, this topic got a bit off-topic when Clowd made a comment about MS having no faith in the HD DVD format due to not including it in an Elite model.
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clowd is but a few Sony supporters compared to the legions of Sony haters everywhere. I think I\'m a bigger PS3 fan than clowd coz I hate the 360 way worse than anyone I know.
I hope 360 scratches your dvds. :D
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hehe its funny that we had similar discussions with almost identical arguments about the necessity of bigger storage format in the PS2 vs DC days. It is today common knowledge that DVD was a necessity after all.
The same might count in the future for bigger storage than DVD9. PCs may not have a problem for a long time since they install and extract data on your HDD but the same doesnt count that much for consoles.
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Microsoft might have considered putting an HD format drive in the 360, but instead they released the product a year earlier and at a lower price. To meet those business needs and get the product to market, it would have been impossible to include an HD drive.
They used the suppliers and technology they had available at the time they developed the product. I don\'t know why you people are even arguing about this.
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hehe its funny that we had similar discussions with almost identical arguments about the necessity of bigger storage format in the PS2 vs DC days. It is today common knowledge that DVD was a necessity after all.
The same might count in the future for bigger storage than DVD9. PCs may not have a problem for a long time since they install and extract data on your HDD but the same doesnt count that much for consoles.
What? You are somehow blaming the format for the failure of the DC? The only argument that could even half-way be made is that the GD-ROM killed the DC due to piracy , but it had nothing to do with the fact that the GD-ROM storage wasn\'t enough.
You need to go back and check your facts on exactly why the DC failed. You\'ll see that it had nothing to do with the lack of storage. Fact is, when the DC was at it\'s height, games were looking better than most PS2 games. So, if you want to compare formats and how a format has hurt a company, look at Nintendo at the cartridge format back in the N64 games. Now that was a time when a format really hurt a system. Not the DC though, not even close.
Microsoft might have considered putting an HD format drive in the 360, but instead they released the product a year earlier and at a lower price. To meet those business needs and get the product to market, it would have been impossible to include an HD drive.
They used the suppliers and technology they had available at the time they developed the product. I don\'t know why you people are even arguing about this.
Exactly. And if MS had decided to put in an HD drive and charged an extra $200 - $300, the board would of been flooded with posts saying MS was crazy for charging $600 for a console.
:D
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Evil? It\'s business, you act as if HD DVD will bring the end of the world. They are no more evil than Sony was for forcing users to own a BLU RAY machine if they want a PS3. Evil? No. Business? Yes
Good business is promoting a product to put money in your pocket. Evil business is promoting a product just to test out codecs on it and hopefully the possibility of stalling a new format from replacing an old one so you can replace the old one with your own technology that is not ready yet at the expense of the public.
I don\'t get how you can say Sony forced a BD drive on us. What did you expect them to use, DVD? If Microsoft \'forced\' things on us like the HD-DVD drive maybe their systems would last longer than 4 years.
When have you been critical of Sony?
Many occasions. Currently I think Sony made a big mistake in making 2 versions of the PS3. Hopefully the 60GB will dissappear soon and they will only sell the 80GB for here on out. But sadly they throw a cheaper 40GB console in their for you whiney brats. $100 more than the Elite and you get so much freakin\' more and all you want to do is cry. Then the next day you go buy $500 aluminum heads for your car to go a tenth of a second faster. After that you spend who knows how much making your car look like a 2fast2furious reject. Don\'t bug me about the PS3\'s price because of bluray. If you want to get a PS3, and you aren\'t a minium wage bum, you can get one eventually if you only wanted to. Anyways, the 360 is such an utter complete ripoff, even compared to Sony\'s high European price Microsoft charges WAY too much for every little stinkin\' add on to that chippy console. You can easily spend $200 just to make your Premium 360 have wireless internet and a HDD bigger than what computers had 15 years ago. Crap, even the PS2 hadd a bigger HDD. CRAP, some 360s don\'t even got a HDD. They make you buy $60 memory cards for just what, 64 MBS OF SPACE?! What a friggin rip off thats a rip off. Call blu-ray and ps3 a ripoff but you let BS like that slide how freain\' pathetic!
I hold no allegiance to any company. I will say that MS messed up by not including the HD DVD drive from the start. I will say that Sony messed up with a high launch price and no decent games. I will say that Nintendo messed up by under-powering the Wii in the long term. All you keep doing is spreading the word and gossip of Sony.
Microsoft and Sony had no way out of what you said. HD-DVD wasn\'t ready when Microsoft rushed the X-Flop to the stores. It cost Sony $850 to make one PS3. And their game library is no worst then the 360\'s was at launch. Yet all of you rushed to it like a dog to it\'s vomit then you want to ridicule me for buying a PS3. HYPOCRITE!
It\'s not doing great, but a deathbed is bit premature. Still, I would say that neither format is exactly standing out to the mainstream people. I know plenty of people who have a PS3 and don\'t buy BLU RAY films. Until price comes down and a compelling reason to buy into the HD market, neither format will truly take off.
The best way to describe HD-DVD is that it\'s got AIDS. It\'s gonna die only thing they can do is try to keep it on life support as long as possible. Microsoft just loves that . Friggin\' pricks. Supporting the underdog for their own selfish reasons. Fabulous. And the formats dont need to take off for one to die. HD-DVD is bbeing outsold 3-1 and soon 4-1. Who is going to support crap like that? 30GB vs 50GB it never was a wore it was a slaughter
RPG\'s almost always take up multi-discs. Not surprised. Does it really hurt anyone to switch discs?
Halo 3 being three discs, the third disc will be extra features and what not. Can\'t really count that.
I haven\'t played an RPG in 8 years (PS1 FF8) that had multiple discs. I never played a PS2 game that had multiple discs. Don\'t give me that crap man. And yeah it hurts to switch discs. Why should we have to get up and switch discs when there is technology available to delete that? Why should we? I\'m sure the developer hates putting their data across multiple discs as well. And Hal 3 being 2 and 3 discs is going to blow so bad. If it was on PS3 it would be just 1 disc. Crap, they could fit 2 Halo 3s in a 50Gig BD. It\'s gonna blow so bad having to change discs to play single player and then multiplayer. Crap!
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god ur annoying. Even in the "paragraph" that you are critical of sony, you are critical about the stupidest thing and quickly switch to bitching about MS.
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Clowd\'s drivel annoys me. Its not that i\'m a rabid microsoft fan (the death rate of Xbox360\'s scare me away from getting one) I just don\'t see how someone can be so blindly faithful to a company they have no stock in.
Oh and learn how to compose an intelligent argument because you sound like you are about 7 years old which completely nullifies any actual point you have. Case in point...
"What a friggin rip off thats a rip off. Call blu-ray and ps3 a ripoff but you let BS like that slide how freain\' pathetic!" :banghead:
Its called a thesaurus, learn how to use it.
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minium wage bum
Honestly, if part of your argument for Sony and the PS3 price is that people that don\'t make above "minium wage" are bums, then I can\'t really talk to you.
Microsoft and Sony had no way out of what you said. HD-DVD wasn\'t ready when Microsoft rushed the X-Flop to the stores
"X-Flop"? Hate to remind you that MS is fairly succesful in the US.
Microsoft and Sony had no way out of what you said. HD-DVD wasn\'t ready when Microsoft rushed the X-Flop to the stores. It cost Sony $850 to make one PS3. And their game library is no worst then the 360\'s was at launch. Yet all of you rushed to it like a dog to it\'s vomit then you want to ridicule me for buying a PS3. HYPOCRITE!
No one rushed to it. No one even mentioned the library for launch games. You need to stay on topic or no bother at all. The closest mention would be someone saying that right now the PS3 library is anemic compared to the CURRENT 360 library.
Crap, even the PS2 hadd a bigger HDD. CRAP, some 360s don\'t even got a HDD.
Uhm? Kinda like how Sony had people buy the HD that was barely supported at all? Not sure why you brought up the PS2\'s HD when it was an obvious weak point to compare.
I haven\'t played an RPG in 8 years (PS1 FF8) that had multiple discs. I never played a PS2 game that had multiple discs. Don\'t give me that crap man. And yeah it hurts to switch discs. Why should we have to get up and switch discs when there is technology available to delete that? Why should we? I\'m sure the developer hates putting their data across multiple discs as well. And Hal 3 being 2 and 3 discs is going to blow so bad. If it was on PS3 it would be just 1 disc. Crap, they could fit 2 Halo 3s in a 50Gig BD. It\'s gonna blow so bad having to change discs to play single player and then multiplayer. Crap!
Yes, because switching discs will kill you.
The best way to describe HD-DVD is that it\'s got AIDS. It\'s gonna die only thing they can do is try to keep it on life support as long as possible. Microsoft just loves that . Friggin\' pricks. Supporting the underdog for their own selfish reasons. Fabulous. And the formats dont need to take off for one to die. HD-DVD is bbeing outsold 3-1 and soon 4-1. Who is going to support crap like that? 30GB vs 50GB it never was a wore it was a slaughter
You use AIDS as part of your analogy. I mean, what are you five years old? It\'s a tasteless immature thing to do.
This whole thing can be summed up.....
Until you can make a post that holds a decent debate, WITHOUT offending peolpe who don\'t make much money or may have HIV / AIDS, then maybe you should step back and take a reality check.
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What? You are somehow blaming the format for the failure of the DC? The only argument that could even half-way be made is that the GD-ROM killed the DC due to piracy , but it had nothing to do with the fact that the GD-ROM storage wasn\'t enough.
You need to go back and check your facts on exactly why the DC failed. You\'ll see that it had nothing to do with the lack of storage. Fact is, when the DC was at it\'s height, games were looking better than most PS2 games. So, if you want to compare formats and how a format has hurt a company, look at Nintendo at the cartridge format back in the N64 games. Now that was a time when a format really hurt a system. Not the DC though, not even close.
*slaps head*
Oh my god talk about making assumptions out of anything!!
My post has nothing to do with DC\'s failure!!
:laughing:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25LceCPO1ys
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you\'re officially a joke and will never be taken seriously. congrats
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Clowd needs to be banned just from being retarded
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*slaps head*
Oh my god talk about making assumptions out of anything!!
My post has nothing to do with DC\'s failure!!
:laughing:
You said we learned from the DC that the DVD was a nessecity and it simply wasn\'t.
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no read what he said raz
he said back when it was ps2 and Dc - he remembered the ARGUMENT OVER DVD vs CD... that is the only referrence to DC in there - in no way did he make a comparison other then the fact that yes in ps2 more games now a days are DVD then CD.. and that is comparing the ps2 to itself
so yes you made a wrong assumption >.> 2 times - he was referencing a timeline and you took it as something else totally ...
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no read what he said raz
he said back when it was ps2 and Dc - he remembered the ARGUMENT OVER DVD vs CD... that is the only referrence to DC in there - in no way did he make a comparison other then the fact that yes in ps2 more games now a days are DVD then CD.. and that is comparing the ps2 to itself
so yes you made a wrong assumption >.> 2 times - he was referencing a timeline and you took it as something else totally ...
hehe its funny that we had similar discussions with almost identical arguments about the necessity of bigger storage format in the PS2 vs DC days. It is today common knowledge that DVD was a necessity after all.
This IMPLIES that the DVD was a necessity. It implies that the DC was lacking due to the fact it did not have such a "necessity". He may of NOT meant it that way, but that is how it looks when you mention the DC and then turn around and use this quote.
It is today common knowledge that DVD was a necessity after all.
Simple.
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bahhahahahhh that you tube video had me on the floor laughing
BEST PART OF THE THREAD.
If any of you want a good laugh that youtube video is GOLD and also it demonstrates what happens when one is seriously deprived of a basic education. We have this Mexican or Philippine dude who thinks he is BLACK giving us his analytical opinion on why the ps3 is da boom.
"everyone knows ps3 makes the best games, Nigga. Wii what you got with wii, Legend of Zelda? where you walking around with a little bitccccch.. and his bitch ass sword and his little shield and he just goes, haaaaaa haaaaaaa, haaaaa come on nigga. who wants to play that shit. I wanna shoot some niggas. POW POW"
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This IMPLIES that the DVD was a necessity. It implies that the DC was lacking due to the fact it did not have such a "necessity". He may of NOT meant it that way, but that is how it looks when you mention the DC and then turn around and use this quote.
Simple.
And the necessity of the DVD has to do with DC\'s failure how?
You do realise that you are the only person who assume such things from my post
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just give up - he is set in his mind of thought
he won\'t see otherwise no matter how you dumb it down
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And the necessity of the DVD has to do with DC\'s failure how?
You do realise that you are the only person who assume such things from my post
Maybe because you mention the DC and then say it was a necessity? Maybe because DVD was not a necessity the last generation?
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i could see how it could be interpreted that way. i kind of did, but i also stopped thinking about the post pretty quickly after reading it.
just so lic doesnt go insane...since it drives me nuts to not have anyone get what ur saying
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unicron is a donkey lets just leave it at that
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http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/08/03/new-id-fps-needs-two-discs-on-360-one-blu-ray-on-ps3/
Filed under: Blu-ray, News
idTech is real ... and it will finally arrive in a brand new game, Rage. Simultaneously developed for PC, Mac, PS3, and 360, Rage will use the second generation of id\'s "Megatexture" technology. What does that mean? 20GB worth of texture information will be squeezed through the engine\'s technology to deliver visually stunning scenes. Regardless of the compression, the game will require two DVDs for all platforms ... but the PS3.
The need for added space in the HD-era of games is clear. Blu-ray\'s added storage allows the game to run on a single disc. The game itself is a departure for id, where it will try to combine "60 percent shooting and 40 percent driving." After a comet smashes into the Earth, players will have to fight the monsters that roam the wasteland.
id plans to make Rage a 20 hour single player experience, and plans to offer co-op. Also, in a surprising change of pace, their aiming for a suspiciously safe Teen rating. The game will ship "when it\'s done."
Expect announcments like this to pop up more and more.
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Dude...do you have any hobbies...or a job perhaps? Do you have any kind of life?
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Funny, I don\'t remember the gamecube using DVD\'s......
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http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/08/03/new-id-fps-needs-two-discs-on-360-one-blu-ray-on-ps3/
Expect announcments like this to pop up more and more.
i keep wanting you to learn a lesson about reading stuff from biased sources, and yet you keep making these fucking posts.
Im not saying whether its true or not but learn some damn street smarts
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PS3 and Xbox360 are weak and I will crush them.
Quoted for truth.
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Why is everyone so defensive about any good news regarding the PS3? :laughing:
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Okay, so it runs on multi-DVD\'s but on one Blu-Ray. How does this hurt the gameplay? The gameplay, the most important factor, how exactly does it hurt it? Oh, it doesn\'t...I gotcha. Get back to me when an important company says something along these lines...
"We had to cut a big portion of the game out because of space issues."
Until then, it\'s not a big deal. It just means people who own the 360 version will have to get up off the couch and switch discs...Oh NO!
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Maybe because you mention the DC and then say it was a necessity? Maybe because DVD was not a necessity the last generation?
So? Nobody disputed the fact that you assumed just because you saw the words "DC", "DVD is a necessity" in one post. You still havent explained how does this have to do with DC\'s failure other than an assumption of yours?
Or the fact that even games without any FMV\'s exceeded easilly 1.6 GB?
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Okay, so it runs on multi-DVD\'s but on one Blu-Ray. How does this hurt the gameplay? The gameplay, the most important factor, how exactly does it hurt it? Oh, it doesn\'t...I gotcha. Get back to me when an important company says something along these lines...
"We had to cut a big portion of the game out because of space issues."
Until then, it\'s not a big deal. It just means people who own the 360 version will have to get up off the couch and switch discs...Oh NO!
Still, 360 Core is gonna be a pain for a few developers in the long run.
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How is the Core going to be a pain? What are you even talking about? The Core did not come with a HD - this debate isn\'t about a lack of HD, it\'s about the format games are being put on.
So? Nobody disputed the fact that you assumed just because you saw the words "DC", "DVD is a necessity" in one post. You still havent explained how does this have to do with DC\'s failure other than an assumption of yours?
Or the fact that even games without any FMV\'s exceeded easilly 1.6 GB?
Or maybe, you should learn to phrase things. We\'ve already been over this and I\'m not the only one who got that impression from your original post. If that is not what you meant, fine, but don\'t act like you\'re innocent on this "misunderstanding". The way you phrased your post made a direct relation from one thing to another.
Need help? Let me break it down for you.
Your original post...
hehe its funny that we had similar discussions with almost identical arguments about the necessity of bigger storage format in the PS2 vs DC days. It is today common knowledge that DVD was a necessity after all.
You mention the argument about how storage formats with the PS2 and DC. You then turn around and say that it is now "common knowledge" that DVD is a "necessity". You don\'t make a paragraph break or anything. You just mention a debate and then say that DVD is a "necessity", thus in return, you are saying that the DC was wrong to go with a GD-Rom. And to say something is a "necessity" is to imply that without it, it is doomed to fail, that it must have this one thing or otherwise it is lacking a crucial factor... Maybe you worded it poorly, maybe you didn\'t break it up properly, but either way, your original post can easily be seen as you saying the the lack of a DVD Rom hurt the DC in the long term, when infact, it didn\'t.
And who cares? Some of the greatest games on the DC was multi GD-ROM games. Like I said earlier, when the space becomes an issue that it effects the gameplay directly, then it\'s a problem. At this point, it doesn\'t effect the gameplay or price so it really isn\'t all that big of a deal.
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You mention the argument about how storage formats with the PS2 and DC. You then turn around and say that it is now "common knowledge" that DVD is a "necessity". You don\'t make a paragraph break or anything. You just mention a debate and then say that DVD is a "necessity", thus in return, you are saying that the DC was wrong to go with a GD-Rom. And to say something is a "necessity" is to imply that without it, it is doomed to fail, that it must have this one thing or otherwise it is lacking a crucial factor... Maybe you worded it poorly, maybe you didn\'t break it up properly, but either way, your original post can easily be seen as you saying the the lack of a DVD Rom hurt the DC in the long term, when infact, it didn\'t.
And who cares? Some of the greatest games on the DC was multi GD-ROM games. Like I said earlier, when the space becomes an issue that it effects the gameplay directly, then it\'s a problem. At this point, it doesn\'t effect the gameplay or price so it really isn\'t all that big of a deal.
I was about to tell you and uni to go get a room, until i read this....i too got a kind of direct comparison of the ps2 vs dc (dvd vs cd) and without tryin\' to repeat what you stated, it did seem like he was indirectly sayin\' that because of cd the dc kinda fell off, but like viper i too didn\'t dwell too much on it....i think we get the idea of what both you and uni were tryin\' to get across, now it just seems you guys are battlin\' to get the last word...
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Not really. I just don\'t appreciate someone saying that I am "assuming" something , when in fact, more than one person read it the same way I did.
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Not really. I just don\'t appreciate someone saying that I am "assuming" something , when in fact, more than one person read it the same way I did
count me in as #3
I find it strange that in the last 12 years nobody ever complained when they had to switch disc\'s for multi disc games. Sure it would be a little more convenient to have the whole game pressed on one disc, but I doubt having to resort to multi-disc will in any way effect game play. as for the person who mentioned FMV i have 2 things to say about it.
It is mostly preferred today for games to use in engine for the videos(Real time cut-scenes) as FMW tends to take the player away from the game(not always some games it has it\'s place)
Even so multi-disc can solve that problem as it did for FF on the PlayStation.
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Personally, I don\'t mind multi-disc games. Hell, in some situations I enjoy them, as they make me feel like I have accomplished something. I still remember fondly when Resident Evil: Code Veronica asked me for the second GD-ROM disc and everytime I played through the game I looked forward to that screen. Another game that had the same effect was D2, a massive four GD-ROM\'s. I remember making each GD-ROM a milestone, knowing exactly how many discs I needed to finish to complete the game.
And thank you for also noticing what was said. It was not just me, the only thing is, I was the one who called him on it.
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My fav multi disc game was shenmue
Man just to pass the first disc was was quite the accomplishment.
Blu-ray was incorporated in the ps3 primarily to assure sony dominance in the HD format wars( a tojan horse if you will) not to say that they will not take advantage of the blu-ray storage capacity. The ps3 higher price tag is a direct result of the blue laser diode.(without the blue laser the unit could have competed much better in terms of price.
Personally I got no problem with ps3 having a blu-ray drive, matter of fact i think it\'s kind of cool and in many was i am glad Sony included it but i refuse to pay a high premium price for system that lacks a solid library. When the ps3 price is goes through it\'s first price cut cycle and the AAA games start following I can assure I will be the first to buy the system. Hopefully when the quality games do start appearing SONY will reduce the price in order to increase interest and make the unit financially viable to the mass market consumers.
Currently as it stands at the moment I cannot find enough justification for buying the ps3 unless you wanna watch blu-ray movies or be an early adopter(i prefer to download both the hd-dvd and blu-rays films, saves me all the trouble of having to buy 2 separate machines and paying a premium for movies i own in DVD)
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i think if they give you the option to put all the discs on ur harddrive, thatd be kind of cool. Would actually make use of the 120GB one.
With long RPG type games im fine with switching the discs, as long as they put it at well placed times. Iv honestly never played a game where i had to switch mid-game so i dunno how itd be. im pretty complacent so i doubt id care
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I think the main issue here, is with the game "Rage", it isn\'t as if ID software is taking extra advantage of the storage, instead, they are just simply not having to make it multi-disc on the PS3. And if that becomes the case, then the issue of storage is a moot point, because it doesn\'t effect the overall gameplay.
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Difference is gameplay (which is highly subjective and varied) and necessity of storage (absolute and objective) arent necessarilly following the same route. This is a false impression people are making because it sounds like common sense. They are little correlated. Even if we compare two seperate generations.
So this is irrelevant with efforts to judge how much the extra storage is needed
How is the Core going to be a pain? What are you even talking about? The Core did not come with a HD - this debate isn\'t about a lack of HD, it\'s about the format games are being put on.
Or maybe, you should learn to phrase things. We\'ve already been over this and I\'m not the only one who got that impression from your original post. If that is not what you meant, fine, but don\'t act like you\'re innocent on this "misunderstanding". The way you phrased your post made a direct relation from one thing to another.
Need help? Let me break it down for you.
Your original post...
You mention the argument about how storage formats with the PS2 and DC. You then turn around and say that it is now "common knowledge" that DVD is a "necessity". You don\'t make a paragraph break or anything. You just mention a debate and then say that DVD is a "necessity", thus in return, you are saying that the DC was wrong to go with a GD-Rom. And to say something is a "necessity" is to imply that without it, it is doomed to fail, that it must have this one thing or otherwise it is lacking a crucial factor... Maybe you worded it poorly, maybe you didn\'t break it up properly, but either way, your original post can easily be seen as you saying the the lack of a DVD Rom hurt the DC in the long term, when infact, it didn\'t.
And who cares? Some of the greatest games on the DC was multi GD-ROM games. Like I said earlier, when the space becomes an issue that it effects the gameplay directly, then it\'s a problem. At this point, it doesn\'t effect the gameplay or price so it really isn\'t all that big of a deal.
No. You should learn to ASK when there is somethintg you arent sure about before wasting your time writing an essay. You tried for the billionth time to explain how does this have to do with DC\'s failure yet you talk again with assumptions.
Since I didnt break on anything including DC\'s failure before, this alone should have made you ask for an explanation than jump to a huge assumption, which is something you do with many other members as well.
Things are getting funnier assuming once again that I said SEGA\'s choice with the GD-ROM was a mistake without being able to point directly at that particular part. Define mistake. I d like next time you make such a post quoting me, to put in bold the parts I clearly implied what you are assuming.
Let me break it to you then because it is clearly your stubbornness that needs help and your predetermined impression you have about me. You could have asked for it before replying in such a manner. I would have gladly and happily put all the effort to sort things out....
Back in the days when DC was alive, it was discussed how "unnecessary" DVD was. Thats right. When the DC was alive. Thus "in the PS2 vs DC days". This was just describing the time period. And of course it was discussed because a DVD based console was either unreleased or freshly launched so it was obvious it was too soon to judge the DVD format. Thats why it was being discussed anyways then. Why should it if things were clear?
Then I said
"It is [SIZE="4"]today[/SIZE] common knowledge that DVD was a necessity after all."
TODAY. Today there are tons of games that came after DC died..
I dont mind if people arent sure about something I said. They are free to ask. I dont appreciate though people who dont ask and are getting offensive, jumping to assumptions as if they were clearly implied and such. Especially when there are more things than one that someone can derive from a post. You are still the only person that assumed. Others werent sure if thats what I ment they kind of sensed that it could be implied indirectly.
Besides it is not strange if more than one people jump to the wrong conclusions (Viper and Clips not included). Especially when these people are biased or are used to discuss such topics with the wrong people in the wrong places resulting to a false predetermined impression of others who are also trying to discuss such matters. Thus forming wrong assumptions about their posts.
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No. You should learn to ASK when there is somethintg you arent sure about before wasting your time writing an essay. You tried for the billionth time to explain how does this have to do with DC\'s failure yet you talk again with assumptions.
I should not be required to ask something, when you directly imply something. Maybe english is not your native language, but your original post directly linked them. If you did not mean for that to happen, fine, but quit trying to turn this around as if your original post was fine and dandy, when in fact, it was far from it.
It is today common knowledge that DVD was a necessity after all."
The word "today" is not what you need to focus on. You used the word "necessity".
From WordReference.com
necessity, essential, requirement, requisite, necessary
anything indispensable; "food and shelter are necessities of life"; "the essentials of the good life"; "allow farmers to buy their requirements under favorable conditions"; "a place where the requisites of water fuel and fodder can be obtained"
Now read that. Necessity, essential, requirement...Those words go hand in hand, and if you say something is a necessity, then that means it was essential or a requirement.
Now, instead of using the word "necessity", use another one such as "essential" and insert in it in your original post.
essential, indispensable
absolutely necessary
So, if you say that there was a debate about storage issues and then you turn around and use a word such as "necessity" , one could directly link your two statements together. This is even more true if you don\'t even break for a paragraph. No, instead you went from one statement to another, all in the same, thus linking the two together.
The very fact that I am not the only one who thought that is what you implied, shows that you have no grasp of what you even posted. Yes, I jumped the gun and made a comment about it, but that\'s to be expected. This is a discussion forum and you made an outrageous comment (even if you didn\'t mean to), and I corrected it.
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I should not be required to ask something, when you directly imply something. Maybe english is not your native language, but your original post directly linked them. If you did not mean for that to happen, fine, but quit trying to turn this around as if your original post was fine and dandy, when in fact, it was far from it.
The word "today" is not what you need to focus on. You used the word "necessity".
From WordReference.com
Now read that. Necessity, essential, requirement...Those words go hand in hand, and if you say something is a necessity, then that means it was essential or a requirement.
Now, instead of using the word "necessity", use another one such as "essential" and insert in it in your original post.
So, if you say that there was a debate about storage issues and then you turn around and use a word such as "necessity" , one could directly link your two statements together. This is even more true if you don\'t even break for a paragraph. No, instead you went from one statement to another, all in the same, thus linking the two together.
The very fact that I am not the only one who thought that is what you implied, shows that you have no grasp of what you even posted. Yes, I jumped the gun and made a comment about it, but that\'s to be expected. This is a discussion forum and you made an outrageous comment (even if you didn\'t mean to), and I corrected it.
I ve already proven you that there was nothing directly implied regarding DC\'s failure and you fail to prove the opposite no matter how much you are still trying. Nobody disputed how someone can get the wrong impression from my post. The only thing you are doing right now is describe how you thought my posts, how many "one way" assumptions and how many wrong connections you made based on these assumptions. Even you werent so sure.
Its funny that you are telling me where I should focus on. Thats exactly the problem right there. Its your mistake if YOU want to focus only on that word. That gives another reason why you should have asked because it shows clearly that it is not my English the problem. It is how you stubbornly want to perceive someone\'s post. Clearly a problem on your behalf. I explained you my post yet you want to focus on the parts that satisfy your assumption. *shrugs*
I dont deny the ambiguity of my post. Others at least, unlike you, see this ambiguity and understand both where I am actually coming from and the other interpretation of my post even if they originally sensed indirectly the wrong interpretation due to this ambiguity.
I dont have a problem if someone wants to comment on my posts, and that isnt my complain. It is how you comment and how you want to perceive the other person you are discussing with. So long as you have "a one way" of interpreting things, have formed predetermined impressions of people, and you want only others to see things like you do, you will always have problems with many people in similar conversations. You never ever ask for someone to explain himself. You just watch and attack if something doesnt seem to follow your route and you always have one way of interpretation. You stuck into words and you forget that linguistic communication is imperfect and a dictionary doesnt fix it. It adds to the problem of trying to get a point across or try to understand someone. This is a far bigger problem than issues "with my English".
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god yall arent even arguing over the statement anymore yall are arguing over the grammar and shit... and how you can turn a 4 line paragraph into a 2 page discussion is beyond me
Heres a fact for you: DC DIED... ok lets move on and end this discussion...
and if dvd isnt needed why dont we just play games on 8-20 CDs now days instead of DVD...? because storage is important and in the run will save space (as in packaging) and able to manufacture quicker
is Blu ray needed now for gaming... no.... was dvd needed for the time around dc no... but 5 years later dc would of shown its age and my guess it will take longer for that to be the case with blu ray vs dvd
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I dont deny the ambiguity of my post. Others at least, unlike you, see this ambiguity and understand both where I am actually coming from and the other interpretation of my post even if they originally sensed indirectly the wrong interpretation due to this ambiguity.
It\'s a forum, there is no room for "interpretation" or "ambiguity", so therefor, any misunderstanding was caused by you and your lack of knowledge.
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It\'s a forum, there is no room for "interpretation" or "ambiguity", so therefor, any misunderstanding was caused by you and your lack of knowledge.
Its a forum therefore doesnt differ than any other form of discussion thus the same limitations found in any interpersonal communication are also applied here and in a higher extend and gets even worse when people, who think can communicate in a civilized and objective manner when they cant, like you participate in it.
god yall arent even arguing over the statement anymore yall are arguing over the grammar and shit... and how you can turn a 4 line paragraph into a 2 page discussion is beyond me
Heres a fact for you: DC DIED... ok lets move on and end this discussion...
and if dvd isnt needed why dont we just play games on 8-20 CDs now days instead of DVD...? because storage is important and in the run will save space (as in packaging) and able to manufacture quicker
is Blu ray needed now for gaming... no.... was dvd needed for the time around dc no... but 5 years later dc would of shown its age and my guess it will take longer for that to be the case with blu ray vs dvd
thank you
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You all argument from consumer point of view about disc size.
Of course, you have a right to do so, since you\'re the consumer....
but, more importantly ; it\'s about game developer ease of developing and peace of mind when it comes to coding for compression/non compression and format crackability. No format is totally safe from cracks in reality, but for developers it\'s crucial that general consumer mass and investors have enough confidence in either format.
Padding a BluRay full makes cracking a bit more difficult and no developer-publisher is eager to unneccesarily spend more production costs by going multi disc instead of single disc.
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You all argument from consumer point of view about disc size.
I dont think so. I think itd be a while for DVD space to be a problem. I mean..if they can fit mass effect on one DVD, theyre going to be fine for a long time. It takes a lot of time/money to fill up a DVD, so at best it will be like one HUGE game thats starting production now and comes out in 2011
dont generalize BOYEEE :D
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dont generalize BOYEEE :D
i am not BOYEEE - i am THE GENERAL ! :D
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It\'s a little funny how the developers did damage control the week after this news.
All in all, it\'s their fault for not creating a proper light source rather than using different textures.
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It\'s a little funny how the developers did damage control the week after this news.
All in all, it\'s their fault for not creating a proper light source rather than using different textures.
Indeed DVD is a limitation for fixed nighttime and daytime versions of each track but I doubt they would have made dynamic day-night cycles anyways. Fixed versions? Probably
They are using photomaps or something like that to render the environments faithful to their real counterparts and close to photorealistic, so much of the lighting and shadows should be already prebaked and cant change. So I dont think its their fault. Also I doubt any of the consoles have the ability to render such complex, photorealistic shadows and lighting dynamically from day time to night time and vise versa. We have examples of day cycles but are far from being perfect and photorealistic.
But they sure made a great job at least in dynamic weather changes which also changes the lighting in some form.