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Playstation/Gaming Discussions => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: clips on March 04, 2008, 09:32:32 PM

Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: clips on March 04, 2008, 09:32:32 PM
It seems that metal gear is a huge game indeed....the article states some issues of not being able to fit other languages on the disc due to space issues...kojima has stated that he\'s still not that satisfied with the look of metal gear,..but nontheless it\'s still slated to be released this june....i like metal gear,..i just want them to improve the animations a bit...



http://www.gamespot.com/pages/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=26269528&sid=6187095&tag=latestnews;title;3



And if this game is too big for blu-ray..imagine this game on the 360....2-3 game disks at least...
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: THX on March 04, 2008, 09:57:21 PM
I think they are using lossless multichannel (7.1?) sound, which is why they can\'t fit all the languages up in derr

Just another hype story.  Since I lost interest on #2, wake me when the reviews arrive
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Viper_Fujax on March 04, 2008, 09:59:31 PM
i dont see why people would need multi-language discs anyway. Most people the play video games here have english as a first or second language, and japan has japanese..not sure what the big deal is
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 04, 2008, 10:38:03 PM
Quote from: Viper_Fujax
i dont see why people would need multi-language discs anyway. Most people the play video games here have english as a first or second language, and japan has japanese..not sure what the big deal is
Well in Europe though it is different since there are too many languages and they have multiple localizations on one disk. Heavenly Sword had voices and subtitles for many languages for example.

I cant wait for this one though. I enjoyed every single MGS game.

The thing about uncompressed 7.1 surround sound though is not a rumor. It was mentioned in a life demonstration of the game.

But how much space can the sound take though even uncompressed? Dual layered BR disks are 50GB! (edit: assuming they are using a dual layered disk) Thats too many! Yet Kojima himself said that he had to cut a few things from the game because they wouldnt fit. Which brings up the question what on earth takes so much space? Could they have converted the real time cut scenes into video files? If yes what was the aim??
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Paul2 on March 04, 2008, 11:26:28 PM
hmmm...interesting.  I don\'t know if they encoded any real-time video games into full motion video, if they do they are using more space, a lot of of space if the full motion videos are lengthy.

I just don\'t understand if they can rendered those games in real-time, why bother encoding it into video which eats up a lot of space.

I like the idea that they are using lossless high resolution multi-channels surround sound.  lossless audio can save space up to 2 to 3 times of its original size.  Since the PlayStation 3 could decode ddthd back into 100% uncompressed quality.  I wouldn\'t mind if English is in lossless while the other audio codecs is in lossy like dd to save space.  Or had other audio languages in 2 channel lossless should be fine...

Is this game in single layer 25 Gbytes or dual layers 50 Gbytes?
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Knotter8 on March 05, 2008, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: Paul2

I just don\'t understand if they can rendered those games in real-time, why bother encoding it into video which eats up a lot of space.
As with the other MGS games, they are not doing this ( interactive cam in previous games\' cutscenes being the proof of that )

Quote from: Paul2

I like the idea that they are using lossless high resolution multi-channels surround sound.  

Is this game in single layer 25 Gbytes or dual layers 50 Gbytes?


It seems the game will have cutscenes where you can roam around the characters in realtime ( with the mobile MK2 robot thingy ) and each character will have his/her own multi channel audio for speach.

And yes, the game uses the full 50Gb.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 05, 2008, 01:07:56 AM
Quote from: Knotter8


And yes, the game uses the full 50Gb.


Is it confirmed? If yes wow!
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Bobs_Hardware on March 05, 2008, 06:33:57 AM
Quote from: THX
I think they are using lossless multichannel (7.1?) sound, which is why they can\'t fit all the languages up in derr

Just another hype story.  Since I lost interest on #2, wake me when the reviews arrive


#3 was fantastic.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Paul2 on March 05, 2008, 09:23:59 AM
Quote from: Knotter8

As with the other MGS games, they are not doing this ( interactive cam in previous games\' cutscenes being the proof of that )
???I am confused here.  they are not doing what?


Quote
It seems the game will have cutscenes where you can roam around the characters in realtime ( with the mobile MK2 robot thingy ) and each character will have his/her own multi channel audio for speach.

And yes, the game uses the full 50Gb.
so you are saying that the games can rendered cutscenes in realtime, and each character will have their own lossless multi-channel audio for dialogs?

So, you are saying there are little to no encoded video cutscenes in the game.  What really uses up most of the space is the multiple audio selections for different languages?  Its interesting that it eat up a lot of space, most of the 50 Gbytes were from audio?
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 05, 2008, 03:06:38 PM
Quote from: Paul2
???I am confused here.  they are not doing what?

Use of video files for the cutscenes. They are most likely rendered real time on the spot

Quote

so you are saying that the games can rendered cutscenes in realtime, and each character will have their own lossless multi-channel audio for dialogs?

So, you are saying there are little to no encoded video cutscenes in the game.  What really uses up most of the space is the multiple audio selections for different languages?  Its interesting that it eat up a lot of space, most of the 50 Gbytes were from audio?

Thats our question too
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: juslight on March 05, 2008, 05:41:08 PM
I knew that hi-poly mustache was going to be trouble!!!!
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Knotter8 on March 06, 2008, 01:22:18 AM
Quote from: Paul2
???I am confused here.  they are not doing what?



so you are saying that the games can rendered cutscenes in realtime, and each character will have their own lossless multi-channel audio for dialogs?

So, you are saying there are little to no encoded video cutscenes in the game.  What really uses up most of the space is the multiple audio selections for different languages?  Its interesting that it eat up a lot of space, most of the 50 Gbytes were from audio?


you really made a confusing mess out of it yourself

indeed, this is the deal : realtime ingame engine cutscenes with lossless non encoded multichannel audio streams for EACH character in that cutscene. Yes, evidently, that audio eats up alot of space.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Paul2 on March 06, 2008, 08:53:21 AM
i see.  so, this game has almost no video, and the cutscene are in realtime.  Its just what really fill up the disc is the audio.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Samwise on March 06, 2008, 10:55:54 AM
Well if it\'s that bad, why don\'t they just compress the audio a bit more. It\'s not like it has bothered people before.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Bobs_Hardware on March 06, 2008, 04:18:36 PM
No! I want it to be crystal clear coming out of my mono TV speaker!
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 06, 2008, 08:59:31 PM
:laughing: love your sense of sarcastic humor I must say.

Quote from: Samwise
Well if it\'s that bad, why don\'t they just compress the audio a bit more. It\'s not like it has bothered people before.
Well it seems they do not want to. The sound quality was one of the reasons they wanted the bigger storage to begin with. They said that they wanted to make the sound quality as realistic and genuine as possible.

In PSN Sony uploaded a life demonstration of the game. I am not sure if that video uses uncompressed audio, but on my 5.1 surround system it sounded crystal clear. There was a section of gunfights and in some moments sounded too real! It was almost as if someone was shooting at you from various angles for real.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Phil on March 06, 2008, 09:09:41 PM
They also want the publicity to say they\'ve filled an entire blu-ray disc and so Sony can flip the bird to Microsoft and say, "I told you so"
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 06, 2008, 10:08:26 PM
Assumption/hypothesis. Kojima is obviously Sony.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Knotter8 on March 07, 2008, 01:26:14 AM
Quote from: Samwise
Well if it\'s that bad, why don\'t they just compress the audio a bit more. It\'s not like it has bothered people before.


it "bothers" in some indirect ways....

- seemingly, fully filled up 50Gb games are tougher to crack (not sure though)
- it\'s a symbolic way of PS3 exclusivity since, the XB360 discs can\'t carry 50Gb or else a port would mean a formal \'downgrade\'.
- it might create a possibility to market a super highquality expensive MGS4 OST "direct lossless version"
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Samwise on March 07, 2008, 02:01:19 AM
Quote from: Knotter8
it "bothers" in some indirect ways....

- seemingly, fully filled up 50Gb games are tougher to crack (not sure though)
- it\'s a symbolic way of PS3 exclusivity since, the XB360 discs can\'t carry 50Gb or else a port would mean a formal \'downgrade\'.
- it might create a possibility to market a super highquality expensive MGS4 OST "direct lossless version"

I understand the \'benefits\' of using the full 50 gigs. But it seemed they were having problems fitting additional languages to the disc - hence why they could look into compressing things a bit - and still fill up the full 50 gigs.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 07, 2008, 02:45:21 AM
Well....they dont just want fill up the disk just for the sakes of filling it. They wanted the bigger storage for specific "benefits" as I see it, such as the uncompressed sound quality ;)
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Knotter8 on March 07, 2008, 03:50:59 AM
Quote from: Samwise
hence why they could look into compressing things a bit - and still fill up the full 50 gigs.


well.. then i guess it\'s also just Kojima showing e-penis again lol
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: GmanJoe on March 07, 2008, 05:13:08 AM
Quote from: Samwise
I understand the \'benefits\' of using the full 50 gigs. But it seemed they were having problems fitting additional languages to the disc - hence why they could look into compressing things a bit - and still fill up the full 50 gigs.



Pfffft! 360 is getting MGS4....it\'s timed exclusive to the PS3 only. Expect MGS to be on the 360 in about 2 years.

Here\'s the packaging.





























(https://psx5central.com/community/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg259.imageshack.us%2Fimg259%2F9026%2Fmgs4xbox360oj1.png&hash=eed96b30d2bac462e2171773ae186d07a2cd6c76)
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: clips on March 07, 2008, 05:49:55 AM
^^^too funny.....:laughing:
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: GmanJoe on March 07, 2008, 06:29:25 AM
Funny and true.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Phil on March 07, 2008, 12:28:51 PM
Quote from: Unicron!
Assumption/hypothesis. Kojima is obviously Sony.


Didn\'t say that, but its a good PR spin for both sides.  MGS4 isn\'t the only game that would have ate 50 gigs of space by putting in uncompressed audio for every language nor will it be the last.  Didn\'t Heavenly sword/Uncharted have the same problem or at least come close?  Point is, this is nothing but PR bullshit just to get people excited for the game once again.

And Gman, thats a sad but probably true representation of MGS4 on the xbox.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: videoholic on March 07, 2008, 12:36:31 PM
Are there seriously other languages other than English?  Why?
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 07, 2008, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: Phil
Didn\'t say that, but its a good PR spin for both sides.  MGS4 isn\'t the only game that would have ate 50 gigs of space by putting in uncompressed audio for every language nor will it be the last.  Didn\'t Heavenly sword/Uncharted have the same problem or at least come close?  Point is, this is nothing but PR bullshit just to get people excited for the game once again.

And Gman, thats a sad but probably true representation of MGS4 on the xbox.
Ahm. That is also an assumption/hypothesis about being nothing more than PR. That includes HS and Uncharted as well.

edit: Actually the devs themselves explained specifically the reasons behind this which sounded perfectly logical, and one who worked on HS explained why at beyond3d\'s forums. Especially the latter, didnt sound like PR at all.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Phil on March 07, 2008, 02:56:16 PM
Quote from: Unicron!
Ahm. That is also an assumption/hypothesis about being nothing more than PR. That includes HS and Uncharted as well.

edit: Actually the devs themselves explained specifically the reasons behind this which sounded perfectly logical, and one who worked on HS explained why at beyond3d\'s forums. Especially the latter, didnt sound like PR at all.



Its not the point that its an issue, I know it an issue for the devs.  The PR bullshit part is blowing it out of proportion and the fact that this is news for the game.  I could make a flash game that has uncompressed dolby 5.1 surround sound thats 50 gigs, does that mean its newsworthy?  As knotter put it, its Kojima flexing his e-penis.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Knotter8 on March 07, 2008, 02:58:03 PM
Quote from: Phil
Point is, this is nothing but PR bullshit just to get people an irritation for the game once again.

fixed.

for some ppl, it (PR talks) works this way, for other it works the opposite. Live with it.


Besides, the game itself\'s gonna be good most likely so who friggin\' cares about
pre-release babble from either PR, zealots or anti zealots. Wahtever.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Knotter8 on March 07, 2008, 02:59:57 PM
Quote from: videoholic
Are there seriously other languages other than English?  Why?


the russians r commuing
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Raz The Friggin Grea on March 07, 2008, 03:15:36 PM
Kojima is a wanna be film director who makes games that have complete shit storylines.

That\'s all.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Phil on March 07, 2008, 03:34:41 PM
Quote from: Knotter8
fixed.

for some ppl, it (PR talks) works this way, for other it works the opposite. Live with it.


Besides, the game itself\'s gonna be good most likely so who friggin\' cares about
pre-release babble from either PR, zealots or anti zealots. Wahtever.


Believe me, i\'m not slitting my wrists over it, more than likely will get a PS3 if this game turns out to be as good as its hyped up to be.  I\'m just calling it out for what it is, which unicron over there vehemently denies.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 07, 2008, 07:58:46 PM
You are call is based on an assumption.
Quote from: Phil
Its not the point that its an issue, I know it an issue for the devs.  The PR bullshit part is blowing it out of proportion and the fact that this is news for the game.  I could make a flash game that has uncompressed dolby 5.1 surround sound thats 50 gigs, does that mean its newsworthy?  As knotter put it, its Kojima flexing his e-penis.
But the point is you dont know for sure if its done on purpose to irresponsibly fill up the disk just for the sakes of filling it up to use it in their PR. It sounds more like the case of having more flexibility and exploiting it. Even some developers on the 360 often mentioned that the DVDs sometimes create some issues they need to spend time solving. They manage to make their game at the end, but it affected the development. This shows that there is indeed a trend towards the use of more disk space. Because of that it is not strange to expect that the developers will use that extra space if its available to them.

In Heavenly Sword for example the developer admitted that the reason why they surpassed the dual layer DVD capacity wasnt simply the game content, but the HD videos of some of the cutscenes as well as the fact that it had lots of multilocalization which takes too much space since that includes sound(conversations and dialogs) and if I am not mistaken HD video cutscenes with the proper lip sync. It was an honest answer, nothing hyperbole or an effort to make us think ooooooo those beautiful graphics are attainable only on Blu Ray

For Uncharted they said that the storage has provided them with the freedom  design the game without having to consider unnecessary issues revolving around disk space. The game could have been done on a DVD if they wanted  to, but it would have had some changes in design which I find perfectly logical. If you know that you have some limitations you will design the game based on what you have.

I am extremely positive that if 360 had HD-DVD as a main format used for games a huge deal of developers would have taken advantage of that in their game design/development

I know it is food for the fanboys but then again everything is food for the fanboys. It doesnt make it PR though.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Evi on March 07, 2008, 08:21:00 PM
Quote from: Goat Fucker
You are call is based on an assumption.
...was...that English?
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Unicron! on March 07, 2008, 08:35:19 PM
Quote from: Raped Goat
...was...that English?
No. But put "call" in " "
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Paul2 on March 07, 2008, 10:46:55 PM
i kept seeing the word pr throwing around.  what does pr means btw?
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Samwise on March 07, 2008, 11:59:37 PM
Quote from: Paul2
i kept seeing the word pr throwing around.  what does pr means btw?
Public Relations. The department in a company responsible for putting a positive spin on things and trying to \'put out fires\' when negative press surfaces. Amongst other things of course.

EDIT: Like when Toshiba kept saying "HD-DVD provides the best value and entertainment for customers and blah blah blah" even though they were going to abandon it only a few weeks later. That\'s PR for ya.
Title: Metal Gear too big for Blu-Ray?
Post by: Bobs_Hardware on March 08, 2008, 05:28:05 AM
Quote from: Raz The Friggin Grea
Kojima is a wanna be film director who makes games that have complete shit storylines.

That\'s all.


It\'s a good thing he doesn\'t make movies, then.

\'cos the gameplay he creates is so much fun!